How Can You Be An Atheist - Pt II - Lake Minnewawa Sunset

[TheHigherVoltage]

Certain nature scenes does make me wonder if there is a God...reading the bible reminds me that God isn't found in Christianity. Just like reading the Qu'ran reminds me how much Allah is fiction as well.

I'm curious...if suddenly a baby deer crashed onto the scene, only to be taken down, screaming and crying while being eaten alive by a pack of hungry wolves...would you still see God?

[themessageofthehour]

Yes, in fact I would still see God

[TheHigherVoltage]

That's a lot more faith than I ever had.

[oggleman]

if that amazing view is evidence of god, please point out where exactly god is in the picture

[gl2findme]

It is wrong to call it by chance, since no matter what, if we assume that the universe exists then it must exist in a state.

After that, Beauty is subjective. You can find beauty in anything with the right mindset. There is no value in making the beauty-design argument. Besides, all beauty does not have a designer. Beauty of mind.

You are willfully ignorant of the world, if you only look at the good things. Your view of the world is crooked if you only believe in the beauty and not the beast.

[foon42]

Wow very nice.

Is this the view from the Children's Cancer ward?

Because, they'll take comfort in this gift when there "perfectly" ordered genes cause their slow suffering death.

[themessageofthehour]

Life is only a vapor compared to eternity. If a child dies and goes to a place that is perfect without pain and heartache and hurt is that an "evil" thing or is that merciful?

[FlyingFree333]

All the video proved is that your desire to believe is so strong you'll bend anything to be 'evidence' of it. You've proved you're hopelessly deluded, nothing more.

[farvision]

google:

douglas adams puddle

basically, we evolved to find the planet beautiful.

[justbekindtooall]

Greetings my friend, I respect you believe in a God and it created all and your right to believe this as I do the beliefs of all which do not cause others harm.

But may I ask

[justbekindtooall]

May I ask why you look at things of beauty and say this proves a God yet ignore the things of what are not considered beauty such as the most profound birth defects, disease, mass starvation ( 24,000 people a day 75% 5 years old or younger) places on the planet barren and ugly marked with great suffering, war, hatred, parasites, storms and other weather which kill billions I could go on and on.

You can not have it both ways.

Be well and happy.

[themessageofthehour]

As I said in the video and the description it doesn't "prove" anything to an atheist. The evils you mention are horrible and the suffering tremendous, but they do not negate the order and beauty of this world. Of course atheist don't believe in this and would accuse God of being cruel, etc, but the evils you mention came about because of sin. However, there will be a day when this earth and its inhabitants will no longer suffer from the curse that has been placed upon it as a result of sin.

[amadain17]

"Of course atheist don't believe in this and would accuse God of being cruel, etc" - no they wouldn't. Atheists don't believe in the existence of a god or gods so they (we) don't accuse what they don't believe in of anything

[justbekindtooall]

With respect it does not prove anything to a Theist either, you believe it supports your belief as people of other beliefs believe it supports theirs.

My friend the beauty of the world does not negate the disorder and suffering and what is ugly of the world but you choose not to look at it.

[justbekindtooall]

No these things do not come from sin I can demonstrate the causes and conditions behind them. But if we look to the Christian Bible I can demonstrate how your God said he is the cause of these things, he is the one who chooses to give birth defects and great suffering to children and will not allow anyone with birth defects near him. How sad.

[justbekindtooall]

How sad you blame the birth defect of a child on that child, the rape of a child or woman on the child or woman, the death from starvation on the person starving.

How sad a God stands by doing nothing to help

How sad you believe the child suffers fro the mistake of someone who lived long before its birth, a mistake your God knew would happen and allow it to.

[justbekindtooall]

May I ask if you are sent to the gas chamber for the murder of a man your great great grandfather did, would you find this to be OK and right?

Do you punish your youngest child for what a older child did years before the youngest child was born?

[themessageofthehour]

Of course it doesn't make sense to punish me for my grandfathers sin. God said that each will die for their own sin.

Adam had children and all the children inherited this curse and thus all the rest of mankind sins and is condemned for their own sins.

So you are talking about punishment from human government (which I and the bible agree with the logical conclusions made from your questions) and the original sin which deals with genetics.

[justbekindtooall]

Greetings, no no no my friend you can not have it both ways. perhaps you do not understand your Christian belief and Bible well or what you have said. You said "no longer suffer from the curse that has been placed upon it as a result of sin. " you believe that we all suffer as punishment because someone else ate an apple.

With respect your understand of what genetics is lacking and not logical.

[justbekindtooall]

Again please think out what you say.

You believe because someone I do not know ate an apple your God knew they would eat I was punished for them eating an apple with curse ..

You don't think getting a "curse" is not a punishment?

Please again I ask with respect think out what you say.

[themessageofthehour]

A curse is a punishment, but according to scripture you are condemned for your own sins, you will sin based upon genetics.

My understanding of genetics is perfectly logical. The point of disagreement is that you do not believe there is a God that would curse mankind because of sin because you do not understand God's mind (because to you no such thing exists).

What drives you to prove that you are correct? A desire for truth. Where did you get that desire? Evolution did not bring that desire.

[justbekindtooall]

No my friend, with respect you are changing what you said the first time.

You said it is unfair to be convicted for a murder that your grandfather did now say it is ok to be cursed and given a birth defect for something someone you never meet did long ago? You can not have it both ways my friend. 2- by your think here you do not know Thor or Ra or Allahs mind because you dont believe they exist?

[justbekindtooall]

3- What drives me to prove I am correct is not a drive, we are having a conversation, but the reason I am proving this is, truth and logic.

You made a statement of what you says is fact, so prove Evolution did not bring that desire?

Just facts please my new friend I as I respect you and what you choose to believe but you speak of "fact" so you need to prove this with facts.

[themessageofthehour]

Eating of an apple is allegory for sex. Eating an apple does not make you realize you are naked. Eve committed adultery with the Serpent (not a snake, but an upright creature that could talk and walk) the closest animal to the human race and that seed mixed in with the human race.

The words of the bible have different allegorical meanings, similar to words we use in our language today.

[justbekindtooall]

Your personal take on the Bible that it is an allegory for sex, billions of other Christians would say you are wrong, so many interpretations.

1-What is wrong with being naked? We are born naked, if your God believed it was bad he would have had them born with clothing.

[justbekindtooall]

2-They would not know anything but being naked, they would have no idea or knowledge of what clothing was. Please think out what you are saying.

3-What is wrong with sex? Is that not your Gods plan? Are you saying he did not want them to have sex?

[justbekindtooall]

4-Wait now you say eve had sex with a snake??? Wow. It is interesting how many stories can come from this book, this is due to the fact it is so poorly written. A book by a perfect being would be just that, perfect so all would see and know one thing.

5-How sad a all knowing God did not see this coming, how sad he allowed an evil being around his children to do what he did to them, this god if all knowing would have know this before hand yet did nothing then gets mad..

[themessageofthehour]

I specifically said it wasn't a snake.