It annoys me you have an antagonistic view of religion like that asshat richard dawkins
secondly, what about the idea of eugenics; it wasn't an idea spread by "the creationist" into the mind of "the american people", it was widely accepted and was about to be put to use by western gov'ts (that is until hitler went and spoiled it all)
and it was centred around ideas of darwin and evoloutionism, I'm not saying it's a bad thing -overpopulation is a problem- but it's usually considered unethical
@busessuck1 If my "antagonistic view" of superstition annoys you, you probably shouldn't watch my videos. Unless you enjoy being annoyed, in which case I'm happy to oblige.
The whole idea of eugenics is based on a misunderstanding of darwinian principles. Ignorance of evolution leads to eugenics.
You might want to watch my video on Pope Benedict, Nazis, and Evolution for the details. Again, assuming you don't mind being annoyed.
When I deconverted I was a little concerned that my life would suddenly spin out of control and I'd find myself living in a ditch. Well none of that happened, my life carried on and in some ways has improved. It was just a fear tactic to keep the sheep in line.
This is much like an argument I give against certain actions on the racism front. Ingraining in peoples minds the idea that many people are prejudice and it guides their actions perpetuates the idea that there are differences in the races, as well as perpetuates animosity between races, which perpetuates racism. The ACTIVE effort to fight racism perpetuates it. Treat each other as if race DOESN'T matter in decisions or actions is what needs to be done.
I think that though we are descended from animals and what not, it does not give us the right to act as such. I must say that no matter how we look at it we are beasts. Its why we kill, rape, and use one another. However, being human means we have the potential of being much more. I think that though we are beasts, we have the ability to transcend our beast like attitudes and behaviors. This in my book is progress, so even if we are beasts we should try to act the way we wish to. = Progress
As a Atheist who lives in the US, I can say that I think you are pretty well on the mark Simon. Though I feel we are missing something here, which I don't know what it is, I think that you are on the mainstay of a large point that can be used against creationism. Next post for my views on this...
Didnt those american schoolshooters and the finnish shooter believe in social darwinism and claimed they shot people because they thought that would be natural selection?
Perhaps if they actually knew what evolution was they might not have shot the people they did, or at least would have invented another reason.
And we do behave like beasts, the only difference is that lions, sheep and fish dont run around shooting each other with glocks just because its fun or because their ideologies differ.
I think I'll term this "The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Divine Morality" argument. And while I can easily see that in the "limited sense" which you mean it that it is true, I don't see much use for it except maybe as a discussion point for how Atheists should treat the "If it weren't for God, I would.." class of arguments. Can you see a use for that understanding as it might relate to actually arguing with Theists?
@renegade4dio I don't think it's particularly useful in terms of arguing with creationists about this point (other than to point out that causality is a complicated thing and their argument is a logical fallacy anyway). I do think it's an interesting point to be aware of when dealing with the psychos that would go out and shoot up their school, however.
Evolution tells us we descended from animals and are animals but creationism seeds the idea that we are descended from and are beasts in the layman bestial sense of the word
There is really no excuse whatsoever to act like an dumbsh#t. And, to act horribly and blame it on religion or darwinism or atheism is just an excuse to take the low road of behavior.
I have actually met many, many animals that put human beings to shame when it comes to compassion, friendliness and unconditional love.
On the other hand, I have met bad animals and good people, too. So, its kinda all relative.
However, the cause-effect relationship of knowledge of evolution to violent behaviour still need to be independently ascertained, simply because its ease of use as a posthoc justification. A person who knows little or no evolutionary biology can nonetheless use the field as a justification for her violent actions, realising that in her social context such a distraction shifts the spotlight away from her individual responsibility to a commonly despised whipping boy.
Interesting view, and I think Hitchens often talks about this form of morality that is predicated on the fear of punishment from a celestial dictatorship. For the large number of people who operate at Kohlberg's stage one of moral development, fear of hellfire may be the main reason why they not be murderin' and plunderin'. In addition, in a community where people are repeatedly told that evolution leads to violence, such an association is very convenient to make.
Some adolescents can be pretty screwed up during certain periods of their lives.
Maybe they have been badly rejected in love, or they are bullied by someone, or any others reason that to them seems extremely important.
And in these circumstances they may do something very stupid, like vandalizing a room in their school or punching someone in the face. But if they live in a country where firearms are easily available, the "something very stupid" may on rare occasions become a massacre.
Beasts don't "have the right" to behave like beasts, they have no alternative. Only humans "have the right" to behave like beasts, because only humans "have the right" NOT to do so.
Humans have evolved the capacity to conceptualize, to remember those ideas, to set those concepts sided by side and to compare them. Thus, humans can be aware of alternatives and can choose one over the other.
Its an interesting theory, but I don't think it is he case for everyone who acts crazy. Perhaps some effect in biblebelt areas. People act crazy because they can, because its fun, because they just dont care. But yo uare right humanity has to be the only species on the planet capable of cold-bloodedly killing fellow members of the species which may suggest we contain dna non-native to this planet. What are your views on the alien genetic manipulation theory? lol
Allow me to submit that, were we to act as "beasts", there would be one thing you could say about us then. Note what I refer to beasts here are those not far from us on the tree of life - not insects or fish, but oxygen respirating land mammals. Were we to act as they do, we would tend to our young, forage for food, predate other animals, and generally do our own species no direct harm. Sure, we would fight over food or whatnot, but I doubt we would kill for its own pleasure.
Creationists speak of beasts and attach all manner of baggage to the word, that beasts are savage, cruel and vicious. But consider that if such were the case, they would not last long. Mammals have need of groups and the "higher" the animal, the more cohesive the group needs to be. This argument is not perfect, but consider that if we were to act "Beastial", then we are more likely to act like apes. Apes are not the worst mammals to emulate.
If I behave like my cat (I'll never get much done because I'll mostly be asleep) but I would still be a nice guy.
"Beasts" that herd or pack get along because it's in their mutual best interest the ultimate evolutionary end result is the morel compass and a belief that life is sacred because we want to keep being alive. =)
I think you might be on to something there, not sure if it can apply to most school shootings, but maybe a few hmmm... being convinced we're nothing but beasts (if evolution is true) must have a psycho. scarring impact on some people. Interesting.
Not sure why creationist think being a beast is sooo much worse than being a flawed and fallen species that has to spend our lives in worship at God's heel though lol I'd so much rather be just an animal :D
I agree, it's very similar to how Christians will sometimes point to the fact that suicide is disproportionately high among gays and especially gay teens as evidence for the depravity and immorality of being gay; when in actuality the situation would likely not exist were it not for christians creating a culture in which being gay is seen as depraved and immoral.
I can't point to any individual case right now, but I think there has been few cases like that. A believer loses his faith and goes to kill some people or something like that.
btw, lol at those harun yahya videos at related videos.
@CousinoMacul I agree, that's another thing, we know from experiments that all social animals have similar moral codes that they follow... Humanity has to be the only species on the planet capable of cold-bloodedly killing fellow members of the species while proclaiming moral superiority to the remainder of the natural world... Hypocrisy at its finest
@NeoDolph1n Ah, but then you'll get the theists saying that social animals are following moral codes given to them by the creator. In other words, they behave morally and altruistically because that's how god created them. It's hard to win with this argument because it all comes back to, "That's how god wanted it."
It annoys me you have an antagonistic view of religion like that asshat richard dawkins
secondly, what about the idea of eugenics; it wasn't an idea spread by "the creationist" into the mind of "the american people", it was widely accepted and was about to be put to use by western gov'ts (that is until hitler went and spoiled it all)
and it was centred around ideas of darwin and evoloutionism, I'm not saying it's a bad thing -overpopulation is a problem- but it's usually considered unethical
busessuck1 1 year ago
@busessuck1 If my "antagonistic view" of superstition annoys you, you probably shouldn't watch my videos. Unless you enjoy being annoyed, in which case I'm happy to oblige.
The whole idea of eugenics is based on a misunderstanding of darwinian principles. Ignorance of evolution leads to eugenics.
You might want to watch my video on Pope Benedict, Nazis, and Evolution for the details. Again, assuming you don't mind being annoyed.
NeoDolph1n 1 year ago
I think you are right, for the most part.
jebus6kryst 1 year ago
When I deconverted I was a little concerned that my life would suddenly spin out of control and I'd find myself living in a ditch. Well none of that happened, my life carried on and in some ways has improved. It was just a fear tactic to keep the sheep in line.
traog 1 year ago
This is much like an argument I give against certain actions on the racism front. Ingraining in peoples minds the idea that many people are prejudice and it guides their actions perpetuates the idea that there are differences in the races, as well as perpetuates animosity between races, which perpetuates racism. The ACTIVE effort to fight racism perpetuates it. Treat each other as if race DOESN'T matter in decisions or actions is what needs to be done.
ericv00 1 year ago
You're spot on to me.
limegreensquid 1 year ago
I think that though we are descended from animals and what not, it does not give us the right to act as such. I must say that no matter how we look at it we are beasts. Its why we kill, rape, and use one another. However, being human means we have the potential of being much more. I think that though we are beasts, we have the ability to transcend our beast like attitudes and behaviors. This in my book is progress, so even if we are beasts we should try to act the way we wish to. = Progress
ZTFreedom 1 year ago
As a Atheist who lives in the US, I can say that I think you are pretty well on the mark Simon. Though I feel we are missing something here, which I don't know what it is, I think that you are on the mainstay of a large point that can be used against creationism. Next post for my views on this...
ZTFreedom 1 year ago
Didnt those american schoolshooters and the finnish shooter believe in social darwinism and claimed they shot people because they thought that would be natural selection?
Perhaps if they actually knew what evolution was they might not have shot the people they did, or at least would have invented another reason.
And we do behave like beasts, the only difference is that lions, sheep and fish dont run around shooting each other with glocks just because its fun or because their ideologies differ.
kargaethas 1 year ago
I think I'll term this "The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of Divine Morality" argument. And while I can easily see that in the "limited sense" which you mean it that it is true, I don't see much use for it except maybe as a discussion point for how Atheists should treat the "If it weren't for God, I would.." class of arguments. Can you see a use for that understanding as it might relate to actually arguing with Theists?
renegade4dio 1 year ago
@renegade4dio I don't think it's particularly useful in terms of arguing with creationists about this point (other than to point out that causality is a complicated thing and their argument is a logical fallacy anyway). I do think it's an interesting point to be aware of when dealing with the psychos that would go out and shoot up their school, however.
NeoDolph1n 1 year ago
Evolution tells us we descended from animals and are animals but creationism seeds the idea that we are descended from and are beasts in the layman bestial sense of the word
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc This was precisely what I was going for. Thanks :) I think I'm going to have to do a follow up vid to clarify.
NeoDolph1n 1 year ago
Nooo, you've shown your face! Your anonymity was awesome.
Most animals have a moral compass of one kind or another. Creationists who say this evidently don't know much about animals.
Klingschor 1 year ago
There is really no excuse whatsoever to act like an dumbsh#t. And, to act horribly and blame it on religion or darwinism or atheism is just an excuse to take the low road of behavior.
I have actually met many, many animals that put human beings to shame when it comes to compassion, friendliness and unconditional love.
On the other hand, I have met bad animals and good people, too. So, its kinda all relative.
skeletonmom 1 year ago
Hmm... Good point.
Probably a lot of truth to it.
Theists often find that there there's no point to life, without god, which probably make them miserable if deconverted, before corrected.
Of course we DO actually, do what we want. We just don't tend to want to harm each other, seeing as we are social animals. :)
This kinda reminds me of a Mitchell and Webb sketch, where a christian who has his faith crushed, is asked what he'll do now:
"eh... call a prostitute I suppose"
(watch?v=Xfqht0LEOWQ)
ZarlanTheGreen 1 year ago
However, the cause-effect relationship of knowledge of evolution to violent behaviour still need to be independently ascertained, simply because its ease of use as a posthoc justification. A person who knows little or no evolutionary biology can nonetheless use the field as a justification for her violent actions, realising that in her social context such a distraction shifts the spotlight away from her individual responsibility to a commonly despised whipping boy.
Xisla 1 year ago
Interesting view, and I think Hitchens often talks about this form of morality that is predicated on the fear of punishment from a celestial dictatorship. For the large number of people who operate at Kohlberg's stage one of moral development, fear of hellfire may be the main reason why they not be murderin' and plunderin'. In addition, in a community where people are repeatedly told that evolution leads to violence, such an association is very convenient to make.
Xisla 1 year ago
Some adolescents can be pretty screwed up during certain periods of their lives.
Maybe they have been badly rejected in love, or they are bullied by someone, or any others reason that to them seems extremely important.
And in these circumstances they may do something very stupid, like vandalizing a room in their school or punching someone in the face. But if they live in a country where firearms are easily available, the "something very stupid" may on rare occasions become a massacre.
ChilapaOfTheAmazons 1 year ago
Huh, so thats what you look like.
jumpinjackflash94 1 year ago
@NeoDolph1n
Beasts don't "have the right" to behave like beasts, they have no alternative. Only humans "have the right" to behave like beasts, because only humans "have the right" NOT to do so.
Humans have evolved the capacity to conceptualize, to remember those ideas, to set those concepts sided by side and to compare them. Thus, humans can be aware of alternatives and can choose one over the other.
EvenGodsSuffer 1 year ago
Its an interesting theory, but I don't think it is he case for everyone who acts crazy. Perhaps some effect in biblebelt areas. People act crazy because they can, because its fun, because they just dont care. But yo uare right humanity has to be the only species on the planet capable of cold-bloodedly killing fellow members of the species which may suggest we contain dna non-native to this planet. What are your views on the alien genetic manipulation theory? lol
prankmypants 1 year ago
People are nuts trust me I am dealing with one right now.
Cheers Christine
christinepeace 1 year ago
Allow me to submit that, were we to act as "beasts", there would be one thing you could say about us then. Note what I refer to beasts here are those not far from us on the tree of life - not insects or fish, but oxygen respirating land mammals. Were we to act as they do, we would tend to our young, forage for food, predate other animals, and generally do our own species no direct harm. Sure, we would fight over food or whatnot, but I doubt we would kill for its own pleasure.
AzmodanKijur 1 year ago
@AzmodanKijur
Creationists speak of beasts and attach all manner of baggage to the word, that beasts are savage, cruel and vicious. But consider that if such were the case, they would not last long. Mammals have need of groups and the "higher" the animal, the more cohesive the group needs to be. This argument is not perfect, but consider that if we were to act "Beastial", then we are more likely to act like apes. Apes are not the worst mammals to emulate.
AzmodanKijur 1 year ago
My cat is a "beast" but she's awesome.
If I behave like my cat (I'll never get much done because I'll mostly be asleep) but I would still be a nice guy.
"Beasts" that herd or pack get along because it's in their mutual best interest the ultimate evolutionary end result is the morel compass and a belief that life is sacred because we want to keep being alive. =)
KaelHunter 1 year ago
the FBI have what's called criminal profiling
in which they build a model for a given criminal
usually one they have yet to actually meet
part of the standard model for serial killers???
> fundamentalist <
go figure
Shadizar666 1 year ago
I think at worst it could be a contributing factor. I doubt anyone would shoot up a school for this belief alone.
smaakjeks 1 year ago
A bit of a workaround, but I agree.
FangFiftyFive 1 year ago
it works.
xyzinc 1 year ago
Woot! NeoDolph1n videos again!
I thought you where going this route from the start of the video. I will somewhat agree with it.
InfectedDaemon 1 year ago
Yayz, there was a lolcat :D
I think you might be on to something there, not sure if it can apply to most school shootings, but maybe a few hmmm... being convinced we're nothing but beasts (if evolution is true) must have a psycho. scarring impact on some people. Interesting.
Not sure why creationist think being a beast is sooo much worse than being a flawed and fallen species that has to spend our lives in worship at God's heel though lol I'd so much rather be just an animal :D
gorypleasure 1 year ago
I agree, it's very similar to how Christians will sometimes point to the fact that suicide is disproportionately high among gays and especially gay teens as evidence for the depravity and immorality of being gay; when in actuality the situation would likely not exist were it not for christians creating a culture in which being gay is seen as depraved and immoral.
iconoclastic23 1 year ago
I can't point to any individual case right now, but I think there has been few cases like that. A believer loses his faith and goes to kill some people or something like that.
btw, lol at those harun yahya videos at related videos.
Saukko31 1 year ago
My reply to that argument is to whip out all the evidence of "beasts" behaving empathically and altruistically (in other words, morally).
CousinoMacul 1 year ago
@CousinoMacul I agree, that's another thing, we know from experiments that all social animals have similar moral codes that they follow... Humanity has to be the only species on the planet capable of cold-bloodedly killing fellow members of the species while proclaiming moral superiority to the remainder of the natural world... Hypocrisy at its finest
NeoDolph1n 1 year ago
@NeoDolph1n Ah, but then you'll get the theists saying that social animals are following moral codes given to them by the creator. In other words, they behave morally and altruistically because that's how god created them. It's hard to win with this argument because it all comes back to, "That's how god wanted it."
Swede1066 1 year ago