YouTube - Force Flow electric supercharger turbo comparison.avi

[ricardojp07]

very interesting video, I am the inventor of the diesel motor 2 strokes by valves only, for carry out that, employ a litle home vaccum sweeping, now found the electric turbos with wich can perfectioning my invention. many thanks friends.

[HondaEPHatch]

cfm with no restrictions doesnt mean anything, as soon as there is backpressure, like closed intake valves, this thing wont have any effect. theres no such thing as cheap power. speed/reliability/money - you can only have 2...

[ThisLaoGuy]

what does the meter read on the CFM? ITS OVER 9000!!!!

[njmvermont]

PLEASE READ

do these work? i have a 1 cylinder liquid cooled 325 cc quad it runs regular gas not mixed could i put one of these on it? would it require much trouble i can weld and cut and can figure most things mechanical out. please resopnd

[drjim86]

@njmvermont I know nothing about quads but the first thing you would need to check is the output of your electrical system.

[njmvermont]

@drjim86 after this video ive seen many bad reviews of these things saying they dont make any noticeable difference if they make one at all and that they cant make enough pressure. but i think if they dont have enough pressure for a car maybe they could make a difference on a quad

[njmvermont]

@drjim86 if i just put a turbine on to my air filter box plug any way for pressure to escape and put it to the battery with a switch will this work. isnt putting pressure there the whole concept of a turbo?

[drjim86]

@njmvermont The purpose of a turbo is to allow more fuel to be burned. So you would need a way to enrich your fuel mixture when the fan is on and you would need to make sure your electrical system can handle the current draw. Connect a boost gauge to it as well. Im curious if they would build any boost on a small displacement engine.

[njmvermont]

@drjim86 will being at full throttle bring enough fuel in. in other words only using the turbine when your at full throttle when the most fuel is being used. or will i have to build a mechanical thing to adjust the mixture screw (which i could do). and you should know my quad uses a carburetor not a fuel injector will this change the concept at all i was worried i could pressurize the fuel pan or something and cause a leak or a fire.

[njmvermont]

@drjim86 and thank you for your helpful educated feedback

[MrSonyCity]

Might as well strap some hair driers on your car. Or a carrot on a stick.

[an30805]

Take my simple 2.7litre twin carb race engine. It requires minimum 168cfm of air at 5500rpm and 80% VE or max 210cfm of air at 5500rpm, assuming 100% VE. The highest power electric a/c leafblower moves 300cfm at 220mph using 12a at 120v. The highest power d/c leafblower moves only 145cfm at 110mph with a 20v motor. I just don't see it making any improvement with a lightweight plastic inline blower running on 12v. How could it possibly produce the required cfm to actually pressurize my intake an

[xxaxnxtxhxoxnxyxx]

@an30805 well, these only work at WOT or unless you have a speed contoler set to it conected to your throttlr cable, your 2.7 needs more than that bud... my 2.4 requires 264 t0 330 cfm at wot at end of powerband. so they only really make a difference at the lower end of the powerband. so when its time to shift its useless, but it help us get there right? i mean just a little. its for accel, not top end speed. cheers

[Superman83271]

There is so much information about these everywhere but I haven't seen a dyno test. I just want to see what they actually do. 2 hp gain, 10 hp gain, what exactly, and with what size engines?

[drjim86]

@Superman83271 Dyno test? Very few people will spend $100 on a turbo and $300 on a dyno to test it. I would settle for a boost gauge or even a 1/4 mile before and after. Most people are embarrased that they bought one when they realize that they dont work and wont post a video of their fail.

[Superman83271]

@drjim86 Maybe that's what's going on with them. I didn't know a dyno test was that expensive. Yeah track testing would be more than enough. Someone without pride issues should do some real world tests for everyone's benefit. Maybe someone who manufactures them. Wouldn't that be nice to see the people who want them to work the rmost showing some results.

[drjim86]

@Superman83271 Thats just it, they dont work. Period. Depending on your car, they will actually reduce performance. Not the same thing but close, Popular Mechanics tested (on the dyno) the Tornado and it reduced peak power by 20hp. These things are just powered Tornados. These devices have been on the market for over 6 years. If they worked, somebody would have posted a video of it working before and after at the track.

[Mrx1080]

I wander how a modified dyson vacuum motor would go.... their newest one spins up over 100k rpm and even has a spool that looks like a compressor! Pretty small though so they'd probably only work on a bike if at all...

[Superman83271]

@Mrx1080 Maybe put 6 of them side by side and funnel them all into your throttle body, or even do 12, two inline and six wide. Put them outside on the hood for a serious performance look lol. Then put Dyson stickers on the windows. Seriously that could work if you could produce the current.

[drjim86]

You could do it for less if you want to cut the choke horn off your main body. A new mainbody was my biggest expense. For a draw through, you will need a much bigger carb depending on your boost level. At 15psi, you will have double the airflow through the carb. You wont find a carb capable of 900 - 1200 cfm for $260. You will also need to spend more time fabricating an intake. Throttle response becomes an issue as your carb signal is further from your engine.

[paintballgundown8]

@nickman888 not a single electric turbocharger does anything but look stupid and waste your money. There might be technology to make a kind of electric turbo work but it is nothing available to common consumers. Real turbos spin multiple times faster than electric motors. These things are nothing but gimmicks much like the "vortex valves" aka intake blockers

[TheSleepermgm]

the black one all the way to the right is a boat exhaust fan,,,,they rip people off for $100+ when you can get one for $10 at a boat store all day long,,,,,,lol

[xspawnnx]

just because it blows more wind in your car doesnt mean its going to work harder. you need some actual pressure to push it harder, in other words psi not air speed.

[W4TCH4W]

Is this electric supercharger thing air intake on steroids or what?

Also can you run it with a real supercharger??

[guyver280z]

This test sucks, makes no sense at any performance level....

[drjim86]

No matter how you slice it, it takes a lot of power to drive an electric supercharger and that is why they are not practical.

To do it properly, you need a motor that is driving a compressor, not a fan.

Here are some numbers.

A centrifugal supercharger can consume 40-60 hp at 8 psi. Even if you only used 15hp, that is 11kW of power. At 12V, that is close to 1000 amps!

Next problem is to find a 12V motor capable of 15hp at 6000 RPM.

[UNKLDAVE]

There are some issues like amperage draw and intake impedance and the like but for the most part, These things can work if you use the right one? just have to be careful in which one you choose. I am going to use a computer controlled brush-less inline version myself and I'll keep y'all informed. The dyno don't lie and this has been tested before WITH POWER GAINS!!

[UNKLDAVE]

It is the amount of air moved not the psi!! You can have 100 lbs of pressure in a thimble but it is not going to run your car dude!

[nickman888]

@UNKLDAVE damn man, so its a bad idea to get an electric turbosharger? i was thinking abt geting one of them on my carburated four cyl truck

[beammark]

will someone please build a decent one of these!!!! it is so simple!!! a starter motor with a cheap procharger attached to it. and a bypass valve for when its not running

[drjim86]

@beammark

Because a starter motor cannot spin fast enough ( 6000rpm ) to drive a blower.

[UNKLDAVE]

@drjim86 Adding pressure to a carburated engine is never easy as you have to change the carb to handle the pressure change. These would probably work better for an injected engine as the fuel pressures are high enough to handle the extra pressure. A carb system uses as little as 5 lbs fuel pressure so adding 2-5 lbs boost would stop the fuel all from entering the carb together. You would have to boost the fuel pressure by as much as you boost your engine. 5 lbs boost + 5 lbs norm fuel pressure?

[drjim86]

@UNKLDAVE Modifying a holley carb to accept boost is takes about an hour and ~$200. To handle the fuel pressure, I use a fuel regulator that is boost referenced. My ride has been on the road for around 2 months. I am still tweaking but it is running well.

[UNKLDAVE]

@drjim86 Well considering that a baseline Edelbrock carb costs about $260.00 dollars that extra $200.00 dollars is a bit spendy. I have done it don't get me wrong and I've done it for free using a bit of foam and a drill. It was the way things were done back then. Blow thru works fine but draw thru is easier. If I had a carb, I'd use a draw thru carb set up.

[UNKLDAVE]

Come on people! You and I know that until some cheap advancements are made this will never make the kind of boost that a turbo or supercharger will make. Use your head! Turbos spin 100 - 150,000 rpm to make 10 lbs of boost. most of these things can only turn 20,000 rpm? Even a brushless motor can only make about 50,000 rpm but they get expensive. Dynos have shown small amounts of boost but not at WOT high rpm situations. Still,.. maybe some hope?

[SlevenKevin7]

Stupid..

[drjim86]

Now take this air speed tool and measure the air speed coming through your engine at idle, 3000 rpm and wot. At any point the air speed is higher than what your fan is putting out, the pressure difference will be less than 0. In other words, 0 boost.

Even if the air speed of the fan is higher than the demand of the engine, there is no garuntee that the fan will have enough power to force more air into the engine. Connect a boost gauge to the engine to determine if this works. It wont.

[AkLG5]

i did some very hard math and the forceflow is the most probable.especially if you buy the x8 (two unit) system..

[omega3677]

@AkLG5 You must not be good at math because in order to build pressure with CFM alone like with most of these things you need thousands of CFM. You need thousands of CFM at low engine speed and tens of thousands of CFM at high engine speeds. This fan will not make a pressure build in your engine. Its nothing but a scam. Install a pressure gauge which they never will do, no pressure no boost, no boost no extra horsepower period.

[AkLG5]

@omega3677 i never said it worked..i said its the most probable unit and i would hope so considoring its price..i know what it takes to make hp, im currently working on a project that uses a real turbo housing and a electric motor..

[omega3677]

@AkLG5 How can you say one minute its most likely to work then the next minute you state you never said that it works. I am confused by your words. There was a 4 part video unpack, install, and testing for the FF a few years ago. A guy from canada put it on his Z31. FF told him it would make 3psi. He had a boost gauge and it never got out of vaccum. Most likely he was either asked or paid to remove the video.

[kenzo5716]

@omega3677 Correct. The problem with these types of systems is their inability to create boost.

[omega3677]

@AkLG5 Not bashing you in any way its just we all need to learn about these things and how they don't work so we avoid these scams. Saying that its probable to work can cause someone to go out and test it for themselves and then they get scammed out of their money. FF most likely is not in the business to hand out refunds so these things should be avoided. Good luck with your project I am working on my own design also.

[princepersia1]

LOOL they don't work bahaha. Do you realize something that creates high psi's of boosts cant do made of plastic. No electric motor can keep up with an engine's demand for boost, you'd have to TUNE the ECU. Fucking hell is this shit for real, do people actually believe this shit??!! I had to install a smaller pulley in the E55 just to get 4 more psi, WTF is this bullshit. Go fuck yourself.

[rangerjavi]

This is not in anyway running off the cars motor lmao, its running off the cars battery, so basically the car is wasting gas for no reason lol. But these things get in the way of the air that the engine is trying to bring in. seriously if these actually worked wouldn't bigger name brand companies already have mass produced these already by the millions? Waste of money these are.

[thisisyourboss]

lol put a blow off valve on it :P

[Sharado]

dyno a corolla or something with the different ones

[Coughenour1]

do these things work at all????? please reply im interested in buying 1

[jpriki1234]

the installation is easy ? and where do you connect your electric turbo ? how you connect that ?

[dawidek20000]

Sounds like a blender

[trinicaleb]

might get more boost if you hook up a 12v air compressor to your manifold lol

[nzengine]

A good test for your fan is to put an end cap on your fan and leave a 10 mm hole in the end. Put this same cap on the other fans then you can measure the flow. If you fan pushes more air through the hole then it will be making more pressure. A bit crude I know. If you have the pressure maps for the 3 fans you won't need to do

[nzengine]

Do you have a pressure map for your Fan? Any type of fan of any type including turbos and superchargers can produce a pressure map. The amount of air a fan pushes has no relevance to how much power it will produce in a engine. It is what pressure the fan makes at a given flow that is matched to the engine at a given RPM.

[rafael33]

can you please do it with psi,  i i would do it but i dont want to buya ll of them and you have them im planig to do put it on a vw 1835cc.

or witch one fells best in your car

[rafael33]

can you please do it with psi, i i would do it but i dont want to buya ll of them and you have them im planig to do put it on a vw 1835cc.

[omega3677]

@rafael33 He wont do PSI test because fans are poor for making PSI. Fans don't make pressure. Your car engine needs either air that is pressurized or it needs a ton of CFM shoved into the intake manifold to build positive pressure. This forceflow can do nither. Sorry they just don't work it a scam just to get your money.

[rafael33]

@omega3677 thatks man i really apreciate and it does make sense....

[infamousbeam]

these fans will eventually crap out and send some very unwanted objects into the engine. these can leave you with some vert chaotic results in the long run

[guitarjunkie250]

your ttelling me to read a book? yet your believing that if you have no pressure required for forced induction that it will still add performance? and actually, forced induction will push back through a turbocharger genius. ever heard of compressor surge? you probably think the blow off valve and wastegate are meant to sound cool, when actually they keep your turbo from surging (spinning backwards) and keep it from destroying itself... go read a service manual

[TheJaybirdmoore]

Nobody's thought of this before!!!!! Ha... snake oil. stupid device aimed at you 4 bangers that buy lighted gearshifters and carbon fiber bumpers for your saturn or scion.

[michaelearly]

these thing dont go along with your RPMs?? they just go full blast the whole time? if you combined one of these with bigger fuel injectors it would actually make some more horse power but would it be worth it?

[U2wild]

I bet Vince Neil used one of these on his Lambo when he recently got a DUI in Vegas ! LOL ! Fuk'n JOOOOOKE ! ! !

[TrollingForYou]

couldnt i just attach my sisters blow dryer to my intake? and only $30!!

[Vitaminous]

look mah, a blowdryer.

[Nettel1]

I need a recommendation preferably 2 good electric superchargers for the Saturn Aura XR& How much HP will it add? I've read between 10-15?The car is stock with 252hp

[xpo220]

@Nettel1 True answer? NOTHING. It will add noise, but that's it. If anything, that little fan blocks some air from getting to your engine, and all it does is spin the air that's already coming in. When you're going fast enough that a supercharger would help, the force of the air will be greater than what one of those things could produce, and it will potentially snap the fan, sending shrapnel of plastic and/or metal into your engine, thus ruining your car. Zoom Zoom.

[guitarjunkie250]

i swear you two with the top comments know nothing. psi means nothing without cfm... you can boost 100 psi in a manifold with a tiny ass turbo and boost 10 psi in the engine with the same turbo... its all about cfm to create power

[SumoRabbitOfDoom]

@guitarjunkie250 Actually, CFM means nothing without PSI. We're trying to create 'FORCED INDUCTION' here. That means PUSHING the air into the engine. CFM is just free air flow - good for creating a breeze, but no good for squeezing more air into a cylinder than natural aspiration. Okay, so you need the CFM to more than keep up with what the engine will draw in, but after that there will be a resistance against any extra CFM, meaning you need PSI to compress it.

[SumoRabbitOfDoom]

@guitarjunkie250 These fans are not capable of creating any useful pressure. The Force Flow is just a beautified high CFM in line bilge blower (instead of the centrifugal type, in black) - like an Attwood bilge blower, or similar. To create any of the pressure needed to boost induction, you at least need a diffused fan, otherwise the air will just flow straight back between the fan blades at the first sign of any resistance. None of these have diffusers. Go read a book... or buy a bilge blower.

[mscuk999]

good video, helpful for me

[Savageowner610]

And as you can see big waste of money

[grrd56789]

where can i get the force flow

[spinnanz]

you need to measure air flow at X psi. none of these will flow enough to make any boost much higher than idle.

[quietfamily]

@spinnanz You are right!. so few people understand this, but this guy is at least in the right direction.

[c2doorsw]

What was the air or wind speed meassured in Mph or knots or km/ph

[Codemancc3]

To do this right you would have had to measure the psi it creates not the amount of air it moves

[firecrackerg60]

@Codemancc3 wahey, common sense at last on here, hope chronefx123 takes note.

[youngone190]

@Codemancc3 you can convert cfm to psi

[MakingSumXs]

@Codemancc3

yea the wind can blow 100 mph but put a cardboard box out in an open field and its not gna create 5 PSI inside of it. Just a simple way to look at it

[Diallo268]

@Codemancc3 well that and the CFM it puts out more than airspeed and maybe CFM@?PSI like compressor ratings? It really doesn't even have to pressurize the intake, just create a better cylinder fill at higher RPMs.

[thelondonbroiler]

Well Done!