Tutorials for readers are very useful...You-Tube is also for minorities. That is the beautiful possibility of this medium. And there are already many forms of useful tutorials. People want to learn in many ways. Your'e not special Anton (smile).
Very very strange when I listen to Professor Anton I never had the idea he wants to be mister know it all. No I hear and see a passionate man who wants to share enthousiastic his knowledge with everybody. He is defending the art of reading. Against all odds. He is not consuming books because he forgets nothing. 'Our Anton' isn't indifferent like Randy the stingy mister know it all. Randy is envious because he tends to forget most of what he reads and can't reproduce it like bright Anton can.
I agree with every point anton makes about "book culture" and the study of texts however completely misses the point of randy's idea of the consumer "model" with his own. To consume does not necessarily imply gluttony is some sense. Really the "consumer model" randy alludes to but never really endorses, he uses it more as metaphor and not serious theory, encompasses anton's ideas of "book culture". Randy's is accepting of the diversity, anton yearns for cohesiveness among the community
Intellect is best fostered in solitude but character is best fostered in the stormy billows of the world.
I'd rather read something produced by a great character than a great intellect. A great character can produce a great intellect. I don't think a great intellect can always produce a great character.
Bacterial linguistic communication and social intelligence (2008) * Eshel Ben Jacob, * Israela Becker, * Yoash Shapira,
* Herbert Levine
Abstract
Bacteria have developed intricate communication capabilities (e.g. quorum-sensing, chemotactic signaling and plasmid exchange) to cooperatively self-organize into highly structured colonies with elevated environmental adaptability.
Opinion TRENDS in Microbiology Vol.12 No.8 August 2004 Bacterial linguistic communication and social intelligence (2008) * Eshel Ben Jacob, * Israela Becker,
" We propose that bacteria use their intracellular flexibility, involving signal transduction networks and genomic plasticity, to collectively maintain linguistic communication: self and shared interpretations of chemical cues, exchange of chemical messages (semantic) and dialogues (pragmatic).
"The notion that microbes have anything to say to each other is surprisingly new. For more than a century, bacterial cells were regarded as single-minded opportunists, little more than efficient machines for self-replication. ...in tissue, in volcanic vents and polar ice, thriving on gasoline additives and radiation, they were supremely adaptive, but their lives seemed, well, boring. The "sole ambition" of a bacterium, wrote geneticist Francois Jacob in 1973, is "to produce two bacteria."
".. microbial life is much richer.. intricately networked, teeming with interactions. Bassler ,,determined..bacteria communicate using molecules comparable to pheromones..tapping into this cell-to-cell network.., collectively track changes in..environment, conspire with..own species, build mutually beneficial alliances...other types of bacteria, gain advantages over competitors,communicate with their hosts - the sort of collective strategizing typically ascribed to bees, ants, and people"
"Bonnie Bassler discovered a secret about microbes that the science world has missed for centuries. The bugs are talking to each other. And plotting against us."
I mean, logically, if she is shown to have stopped for every red light on the way to the store, she is shown to be making choices, not only operating from memory on how to get to the store.
Hi pointyhead1, can you tell me where I ever made the claim that ants were not individuals? I did claim that we are social animals in a different way than ants are. Perhaps even professoranton would find this view congenial; he has in many previous videos emphasized that human language does mark a discontinuity with the rest of the animal kingdom.
As we are discussing this issue on the comments section for your reply video, I don't think I need to repeat some of the posts. I'm having trrouble getting YouTube to post the comments over there, so I'm trying to post it here.
Basically we are down to your claim that ants are not like humans, in that they are robotic, and do not share their points of view - that is, if they do have individual POV.
What would allow you to agree, that they do share their POV with each other ?
Yeah youtube's comment system sucks. as to your question, yeah, that's a very substantial claim, and it takes A LOT to back it up. I think the best answer to your question is given in my free will video series, playlist available on my channel home page. I think you can understand how I wouldn't want to type up a huge response using youtube's comment section, especially when I spent a lot of time putting those videos together and they are there already.. . . .
Hi pointyhead1, a dialog is a conversation between individuals who have a point of view on the world, and are sharing that with each other. So far so good? I don't think ants have a point of view to share.
People tell me to read the bible 100 X and then we'll talk. That is a "no-go". I need to know the claim first, and what page, what verse if supposed to be the significant thing. I've already read the Bible.
So..Is it about Free Will or about Communication, or about POV ?
Hi pointyhead1, this is YouTube, not TypeIntoACrappyCommentSystemTube. We talk back and forth using videos, not text. Watch my videos, and ask your questions in videos. If that's a "no go"; fine, I can understand if you'd rather talk in text, but if so, a mailing list would be a better venue for you than youtube.
6:28 The medium really becomes the message in this situation.
You've helped inspire my thirst for gaining knowledge through books and as a side-effect I've seemingly experienced random shifts of increased intelligence. (Or the ability to use what I had previously been somewhat neglecting)
At any rate, I'm very rarely bored and the delicate sprinkles of originality in my cupcake of thought are becoming more flavorful and pertinent as far as reality's concerned.
Good defense! I agree with you pushing for trying to convince people to read for themselves, not only gobbling up ideas, digested by someone else, and presented in a video. If anything, this should awaken other people's interest in this or that book, that otherwise they wouldn't know about.
Did I hear correctly at the beginning, that you are leaving you tube? Pity!
I would like to watch a debate between Anton and dospook. Strictly for the beauty of it. Why not take it to a really interesting, engaging level. Both of you are brilliant, well educated, responsible thinkers. When you search google for philosophy debates, youtube or otherwise, all you find are boring old atheist theist dialogues. Why not be one of the first to partake in a philosophical exchange? I strongly believe the structure of youtube will be formed by the nature of participation.
Absolutely agree with the point about amnesia in qutoe sourcing. I try to source quotes when I can remember, and even research sometimes to see if I can find the original source.
I'm sure though that I'm guilty of mistaking ideas that pop up in my head as original thought when I simply am rephrasing something in my own words that I've heard somewhere else. I imagine that most are guilty of it at some point.
you can't save world. the word is not safe. whatever and however you say it can be found at fault with itself or the other. you are the other but other is not you. the other can never be you. you can not save the other. save yourself.
I agree with your position on this 100%. While I do think there is value in listening to peoples opinions and thoughts, I also personally feel reading, and struggling through a difficult work is going to produce better quality fruit. Anyone who makes the assumption "we know all that" is in grotesque error. The very state society is in and moving towards, greatly reflects that very little, if any understanding exists at all. Excellent points made on this video.
One thought that was nagging at me while watching Randy's video is the fact that, no, not all of us have read all those books. It seems a bit inconsiderate of those who have not taken all the same steps. Perhaps from Randy's own POV, it's all just rehashing what's been done before, but that's only his POV. For plenty of other people, it is new. Not everyone has gone through the whole library and can share the perspective of it being "behind" them.
Also. Randy is a man of a certain age. The vast majority of people on YouTube are not his age. It takes time to have read all the books behind Randy in his video. Also I bet Corey and Randy have read books they felt were a waste of time. Would it be useful to get opinions of such books?
Take it easy Anton and thanks for your time. Hope to see a few new vids up now and again. Also 'theres nothing new under the sun' - i came up with that. :-)
Hi Prof Anton. I think Randy was directly speaking to you when he said the answer is not in the books. He wasn't giving a general prescription for everyone. It would be nice not to generalize what he said as a set of rules that he may believe as imperative for everybody.
Your not going to find the original intellectual dialogue your looking for here professor. Most people here are like hamsters running on a spinning wheel. They just keep going round in circles.
I think reading carelessly (not giving yourself time to think about what you are reading) is book consumption. There certainly are species of readers who read purely to consume.
I think intelligence is largely willed as well. I also think books have transformed my intellect. I struggled with Being and Time. It was all gibberish to me at first and now I can read it fairly well.
The two most difficult to understand books I've ever struggled to digest were;
The emperors new mind - Dr Roger Penrose
The Mumonkan - a collection of Zen Koans
In both cases I found that once I had started to get to grips with the content material it became a lot easier internally to think about. It was still difficult to articulate and anyone I spoke to about either thought it was a load of mystical mumbo jumbo totally disconnected to reality.
Yeah, one of the major issues I have in "real life" is that if I start to talk about interesting topics like philosophy or religion with friends, they give me that blank stare.. I've committed that unforgivable sin of talking about something other than football.
Not that I don't like football, mind you, just would be interesting to be able to talk about things a little more interesting from time to time. One reason I really dig YouTube! :)
Btw, might want to change that backround on your channel page before you call someone out on that.
Sorry if I was indelicate or having fun at your expense there. Loved your line about the situation being hopless but not serious. "Life is too important to be taking seriously" ---we have forgotten who said it...maybe it was ME!
I aspire to be well read; I prefer Epicurus but I have enjoyed a little (although certainly not enough) Epictetus. There are also many other mediums I enjoy that a person needs to 'struggle to win.' Music, film, etc. Some YouTube content fits this category, including your own videos. Randyhelzerman's point (if I have understood) is not that all consumption is equal (reading and snack food), but that YouTube is not just about consumption. Something your dialogues on other channels exemplify. TBC
In saying that reading is a form of consumption is Randyhelzerman really prescribing that people stop reading? That certain kinds of consumption are not elevated? That consumption of certain types cannot be a struggle. I could be wrong but I do not think he is contradicting you on any of this; I would be surprised if he believes that we should replace all reading with original videos on YouTube. TBC
He is wrong that you are only elucidating unoriginal ideas from books, but at the same time he is right that this medium has more potential than you are giving it credit for. I have had a lot of my views challenged on YouTube; on ethics this place has helped me understand errors not only in my beliefs but in my approach. Yes there is garbage, but the same is true with books. Any browse through a mainstream bookshop will reveal more pulp than anything on the level of Epictetus. TBC
Anyway, your channel has proved fascinating. I hope you can find something worthy about this website and continue to upload content. Undoubtedly it has problems; it can be overly hostile and sometimes just silly. It is not a substitute for other mediums. Still, I think it has potential. I also hope your dialogue with Randyhelzerman continues; I find much to like in both perspectives and I doubt the exchange has exhausted itself.
"Any browse through a mainstream bookshop will reveal more pulp than anything on the level of Epictetus. "
Ain't that the truth. The superior number of books in the astrology/supernatural section over the science and philosophy section in some book stores is cringe worthy.
And even what philosophy they do stock tends to be limited; e.g. the same 'The Open Society' book in every philosophy section and nothing of Popper's superior epistemological work. Once I encountered the philosophy section on one shelf at the bottom of four pop psychology shelves.
In Waterstone's in my city centre there is at least a philosophy section with multiple shelves. My problem is there is just as much crap non-subjects, if not more. People are addicted to nonsense. Check out Chris Hedges latest article at TruthDig.
I love how he intentionally taped his video response with the books in the background in a blatant attempt to prove he "knows" more than you. And yet he doesn't even realize his own ideas are intimately related to the words in all of those books.
engaging demanding textures do transform the self, studying distinct paces of perception do extend the mind, adjusting to alternative conceptual rhythms..etc etc: that's the thing that's worth it!
I canceled a book club of mine because I was overwhelmed by the material of the book I chose. The people who watch my videos, most, do not share my interests in books. You will probably have more success considering you are offering up philosophical non-fiction which you are prepared to discuss. I for one, enjoy ficition and mental health narratives. Those choices are not easy to discuss unless you are an Oprah type book club.
Would you like to be in on a reading group? Several have expressed interest already. We're going to start with the handbook of Epictetus. It is a profound resource for mental health.
If you'd like to be in on it, just send an email and I'll send you the reading.
One of the things I reluctantly learned on YouTube is that it's hard not to spend all your time in ego defence here.
For example, this morning I'm rewriting a manuscript...so I don't want to comb my hair, but I want to do a video response to this thought provoking video...
Your point about the transfomative power of books is excellent...I agree that you it's important to spend time with difficult texts...
But the same thing can happen with exchanges on YouTube too.
[Con't] a speculative comment that I thought I saw a connect between fuzzy logic and deconstruction-Cashify responds by telling me I'm a moron...So I'm angry! [Did I mention ego defence? LOL
I'm so angry that I begin to research it and I begin to see more and more connections & now I'm really intrigued.
Then I begin to think about how I could make this into a video WITHOUT combing my hair...I might or might not do it, but I love the way my mind plays with these ideas. Even dead ends are fun
Karen there aren't any dead ends if you bring your mud pie sludge hammer or your mega blaster destruction gun. But you'll need to use your comb to avoid the split ends.
I LOVE you K and LOVED the fuzzy logic comment. I'm sure I did not call you a moron....though I confess to total irreverance for ideas in general.
Just delete comments that are insulting with no content. Just block the users. Simple. You are not censoring them. You don't have any duty to give them a soap box on your channel so they can abuse you.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I gotta say though. You have descended from and educated profound thinker lecturing for an audience to a pissed off vulnerable human being facing his own issues and buttons and ranting like 13 year old girl whose best friend just stole her boyfriend. What a spectacular, and genuinely impressive sight. Books don't have hyperlinks....that's why they're so difficult. You can tap the bold print all you want...no dice.
Somewhere out there is guy who loves books who found a niche sourcing wikipedia articles. Since most of us learn everything we know from those articles, this dude is literally determining how concepts are defined BEFORE we debate about it on Youtube. I gotta go google Isaiah Berlin now.
I also don't really get the idea that "originality" is worth anything at all. Surely the ideas are what are valued - originality is only an economic concern when concepts of private ownership are involved.....the only "true" form of originality can be in the way a new learner interprets ideas. For example, the idea of critiquing authoritative disambiguation is NEW to me. It might not be NEW to Randy, but I don't have decades of learning behind me like I assume he does.
When the whole reason one wants to create a "profound new idea" is to be recognized for it...it MATTERS. If you genuinely love the exploration of ideas such that you would do it on a deserted island, then I see your point. For most people, not just academics, intellectual accomplishment is more about the ego trip than excellence, transformation or truth. Many people lose interest in their profound NEW creations when they find out it's been done before and they aren't the first to think of it.
Maybe this idea of a desire for recognition is fundamentally absurd...I DO genuinely love learning, and I'm not going to let my own infantile egoistic desires get in the way of meaningful experience/learning processes.
I think it's a shame that many people do get caught in the "ego trap" (and I think all of us do, sometimes) instead of accepting new ideas, challenging them, and repeating the process over again. It's just a silly game...are people too focused on reputation?
not fundamentally absurd...it is based on social animal survival instinct...strong position in the clan...better mate selection...avoiding being banished and losing protection and resources of group...that sort of thing...and a certain level of roleplaying is required to maintain sustenance and shelter today as well...so it is at times very appropriate.
are we too focused? Yeah. keeping up appearances, looking good, gainging admiration, became a neurotic preoccupation.
"intellectual accomplishment is more about the ego trip than excellence, transformation or truth."
Often, there are two dynamics resulting from an original motive and a genuine interest in discovering "truth" can also, inadvertently, serve the purpose of the survival driven aspect of the ego.
Picture yourself in a situation where your immediate action is required to save another from some accident and your NATURAL REACTION is to take that action. Then, as you have begun the action, (TBC)
(Cont.) a split second later, your ego steps in and realizes that it will likely be rewarded for this action by the person saved and perhaps society at large appointing a hero status because your action.
My feeling is that most people who do discover "new" ideas are those who have a genuine interest in the subject matter. That genuine interest is their motive for learning. The fact that their ego then realizes that others will give them higher status for the discovery is not the motive.
Great response man - I particularly like the point that books aren't available to everyone/some people may NOT have so much book-derived knowledge just yet.
Some of us are younger (20) and simply haven't had the time alive to digest so much information yet, but videos such as yours, that give specific examples of ideas (and open up opportunities for discussion of these ideas) often point me in other literary directions. I think your contributions are great, in this respect.
a post summation video indicates you can't 'quit anytime you want.' There's no patch for this. You may need to take up a distraction like porn or substance abuse.
Tutorials for readers are very useful...You-Tube is also for minorities. That is the beautiful possibility of this medium. And there are already many forms of useful tutorials. People want to learn in many ways. Your'e not special Anton (smile).
Contextcatcher 7 months ago
Very very strange when I listen to Professor Anton I never had the idea he wants to be mister know it all. No I hear and see a passionate man who wants to share enthousiastic his knowledge with everybody. He is defending the art of reading. Against all odds. He is not consuming books because he forgets nothing. 'Our Anton' isn't indifferent like Randy the stingy mister know it all. Randy is envious because he tends to forget most of what he reads and can't reproduce it like bright Anton can.
Contextcatcher 8 months ago
YES!!!
bluetoebeing 11 months ago
I don't think these guys want to develop themselves. They want confirmation that they're not assholes.
"good video, moron"
"thanks!"
xy11xy 1 year ago
truth
TheJokest 1 year ago
I agree with every point anton makes about "book culture" and the study of texts however completely misses the point of randy's idea of the consumer "model" with his own. To consume does not necessarily imply gluttony is some sense. Really the "consumer model" randy alludes to but never really endorses, he uses it more as metaphor and not serious theory, encompasses anton's ideas of "book culture". Randy's is accepting of the diversity, anton yearns for cohesiveness among the community
AmericanAscetic 2 years ago
Intellect is best fostered in solitude but character is best fostered in the stormy billows of the world.
I'd rather read something produced by a great character than a great intellect. A great character can produce a great intellect. I don't think a great intellect can always produce a great character.
IronicKismet 2 years ago
This is very insightful. Much that seems right-minded to me.
Professoranton 2 years ago
@IronicKismet how about nietzsche?
f1ghtclub2k3 1 year ago
Bacterial linguistic communication and social intelligence (2008) * Eshel Ben Jacob, * Israela Becker, * Yoash Shapira,
* Herbert Levine
Abstract
Bacteria have developed intricate communication capabilities (e.g. quorum-sensing, chemotactic signaling and plasmid exchange) to cooperatively self-organize into highly structured colonies with elevated environmental adaptability.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Opinion TRENDS in Microbiology Vol.12 No.8 August 2004 Bacterial linguistic communication and social intelligence (2008) * Eshel Ben Jacob, * Israela Becker,
" We propose that bacteria use their intracellular flexibility, involving signal transduction networks and genomic plasticity, to collectively maintain linguistic communication: self and shared interpretations of chemical cues, exchange of chemical messages (semantic) and dialogues (pragmatic).
pointyhead1 2 years ago
" Meaning-based communication permits colonial identity, intentional behavior (e.g. pheromone-based courtship for mating), purposeful alteration of colony structure (e.g. formation of fruiting bodies), decision-making (e.g. to sporulate)
pointyhead1 2 years ago
google and watch the Bonnie Bassler video called "How Bacteria Talk" on "TED"
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Yes, I am quite familiar with all of this. It is not, in my view, language.
Professoranton 2 years ago
and so..you consider it not language.
what does that change ?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
ProfessorAnton,
I'd say for that to make an interesting conversation, it requires showing that this cannot do for them whatever you think language does for you.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Comment removed
pointyhead1 2 years ago
semantic and pragmatic communication
self identity and associated identity
decision-making and intentional self-alterations
pointyhead1 2 years ago
"The notion that microbes have anything to say to each other is surprisingly new. For more than a century, bacterial cells were regarded as single-minded opportunists, little more than efficient machines for self-replication. ...in tissue, in volcanic vents and polar ice, thriving on gasoline additives and radiation, they were supremely adaptive, but their lives seemed, well, boring. The "sole ambition" of a bacterium, wrote geneticist Francois Jacob in 1973, is "to produce two bacteria."
pointyhead1 2 years ago
".. microbial life is much richer.. intricately networked, teeming with interactions. Bassler ,,determined..bacteria communicate using molecules comparable to pheromones..tapping into this cell-to-cell network.., collectively track changes in..environment, conspire with..own species, build mutually beneficial alliances...other types of bacteria, gain advantages over competitors,communicate with their hosts - the sort of collective strategizing typically ascribed to bees, ants, and people"
pointyhead1 2 years ago
The Bacteria Whisperer
"Bonnie Bassler discovered a secret about microbes that the science world has missed for centuries. The bugs are talking to each other. And plotting against us."
By Steve Silberman
pointyhead1 2 years ago
New subscriber from France.
slobomotion 2 years ago
I find all the Free Will videos have argument based on unsuported and illogical claims, Randy.
eg. that the sleep driver is not LEGALLy responsible for killing the pedestrian because the sleepdriver did not choose to GO TO THE STORE.
You see, the thing to prove is that she did not have choice available on whether to hit the pedestrian or not.
It's got nothing to do with "store" at all.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
So let's just have your claim.
Claim: Ants have no Free will, but humans do.
Is that it ?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
I mean, logically, if she is shown to have stopped for every red light on the way to the store, she is shown to be making choices, not only operating from memory on how to get to the store.
there are ways to sort this problem.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Randy claims that ants are not individuals.
Randy will find it rather tough to support that claim.
Maybe he's say they all loook the same to him.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Hi pointyhead1, can you tell me where I ever made the claim that ants were not individuals? I did claim that we are social animals in a different way than ants are. Perhaps even professoranton would find this view congenial; he has in many previous videos emphasized that human language does mark a discontinuity with the rest of the animal kingdom.
randyhelzerman 2 years ago
Hi Randy.
As we are discussing this issue on the comments section for your reply video, I don't think I need to repeat some of the posts. I'm having trrouble getting YouTube to post the comments over there, so I'm trying to post it here.
Basically we are down to your claim that ants are not like humans, in that they are robotic, and do not share their points of view - that is, if they do have individual POV.
What would allow you to agree, that they do share their POV with each other ?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Yeah youtube's comment system sucks. as to your question, yeah, that's a very substantial claim, and it takes A LOT to back it up. I think the best answer to your question is given in my free will video series, playlist available on my channel home page. I think you can understand how I wouldn't want to type up a huge response using youtube's comment section, especially when I spent a lot of time putting those videos together and they are there already.. . . .
randyhelzerman 2 years ago
I'm not asking you to back up your claim, now, Randy.
I'm now asking that you clarify. Is it the sharing or is it the POV ?
which ?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Hi pointyhead1, a dialog is a conversation between individuals who have a point of view on the world, and are sharing that with each other. So far so good? I don't think ants have a point of view to share.
randyhelzerman 2 years ago
wht are the signs of having a POV, so that we may recognize an entity that has POV.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Zonk! :-) I lay these out in exhaustive detail in my freewill vids. Please watch them. Pretty please?
randyhelzerman 2 years ago
Randy,
I find the Free Will videos to be not a response to our question here, not answering my question to you.
From a statement on ants being not individuals, mere robots, to ants not sharing their POV, to ants not HAVING a POV. To ants not having Free Will ?
Now it seems that your are saying it's all about them not having Free Will, thus no POV ?
Is that what you are saying?
That ants do not have Free Will, but we do ?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
dude, just watch them, then we'll talk.
randyhelzerman 2 years ago
People tell me to read the bible 100 X and then we'll talk. That is a "no-go". I need to know the claim first, and what page, what verse if supposed to be the significant thing. I've already read the Bible.
So..Is it about Free Will or about Communication, or about POV ?
Your claim seems to alternate between:
1/ Ants not communicating ( dialogue)
2/ Ants having nothing to communicate ( POV).
3/ Ants have no Fee wIll, but we do.
I need to know your claim.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
3 / being the ultimate "hatch door", where even if I prove communicative sharing, prove individual POV.
with # in hand, after all that, you can say the ant didn't do it out of his own Free Will.
so why would I bother to prove anything on 1 and 2, when a #3 " flush handle" is there, just waiting to be pulled ?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
I mean, I am asking very specific questions in 1/ and 2/ that can be answered by science.
to not answer as to what our claim really is, is not dialogue, to my y way of thinking.
Niether is reply to PA with insider info, dialogue with YouTube audience.
It's like I say to someone I know, in public dialogue ..."Yeah, it's just like Toyota and my sister "
He knows, but nobody else knows what the hell I am talking about.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
I've watched two, I'll watch them all, but you do need to reply as to what your claim is going to be.
Free Will argument is not going to be available as fallback position if it is not your ultimate claim.
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Hi pointyhead1, this is YouTube, not TypeIntoACrappyCommentSystemTube. We talk back and forth using videos, not text. Watch my videos, and ask your questions in videos. If that's a "no go"; fine, I can understand if you'd rather talk in text, but if so, a mailing list would be a better venue for you than youtube.
randyhelzerman 2 years ago
Randy...My video will go like this:
Some printing, saying ."What is your claim "? 1, 2, or 3 ?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
I'll make a video but I need an answer to make a video about.
1,2, or 3 ?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
also, prof anton has made a lot of vids on this as well, some of his vids on this are well worth watching....
randyhelzerman 2 years ago
is it going to boil down to an assertion that amimals can recognize something as 'fun', but cannot recognize something as "funny"?
pointyhead1 2 years ago
Please do a video on these:
/watch?v=9nJGxTvejwg
/watch?v=pqvIx13yKTU
Professoranton 2 years ago
6:28 The medium really becomes the message in this situation.
You've helped inspire my thirst for gaining knowledge through books and as a side-effect I've seemingly experienced random shifts of increased intelligence. (Or the ability to use what I had previously been somewhat neglecting)
At any rate, I'm very rarely bored and the delicate sprinkles of originality in my cupcake of thought are becoming more flavorful and pertinent as far as reality's concerned.
The torch is ablaze. Thanks.
Monolith1618 2 years ago
Good defense! I agree with you pushing for trying to convince people to read for themselves, not only gobbling up ideas, digested by someone else, and presented in a video. If anything, this should awaken other people's interest in this or that book, that otherwise they wouldn't know about.
Did I hear correctly at the beginning, that you are leaving you tube? Pity!
dewinthemorning 2 years ago
I would like to watch a debate between Anton and dospook. Strictly for the beauty of it. Why not take it to a really interesting, engaging level. Both of you are brilliant, well educated, responsible thinkers. When you search google for philosophy debates, youtube or otherwise, all you find are boring old atheist theist dialogues. Why not be one of the first to partake in a philosophical exchange? I strongly believe the structure of youtube will be formed by the nature of participation.
aaronhemeon 2 years ago
Sounds pretty good.
There is a real problem with originality, and that is
without referents, no idea is understandable.
Most originality in western civ is knowing how to steal the right ideas to make a new combination
out of them.
If you want to be Newton, you have to climb onto the right giants shoulders.
The other thing you need to do is stop accepting limitations on your ability to understand and accomplish, for the first time
the tools are right in front of all of us.
tyrbolo 2 years ago
Absolutely agree with the point about amnesia in qutoe sourcing. I try to source quotes when I can remember, and even research sometimes to see if I can find the original source.
I'm sure though that I'm guilty of mistaking ideas that pop up in my head as original thought when I simply am rephrasing something in my own words that I've heard somewhere else. I imagine that most are guilty of it at some point.
pfarabee 2 years ago
you can't save world. the word is not safe. whatever and however you say it can be found at fault with itself or the other. you are the other but other is not you. the other can never be you. you can not save the other. save yourself.
jogayot 2 years ago
Ugh. Incoming message.
azrienoch 2 years ago
I agree with your position on this 100%. While I do think there is value in listening to peoples opinions and thoughts, I also personally feel reading, and struggling through a difficult work is going to produce better quality fruit. Anyone who makes the assumption "we know all that" is in grotesque error. The very state society is in and moving towards, greatly reflects that very little, if any understanding exists at all. Excellent points made on this video.
crazycat1984 2 years ago
Your a class act professor. I really don't know what that douche (original douche) is takin about...
ElectronicPhone 2 years ago
Ive never said this to anyone on youtube, but ill miss you Prof :)
Please leave your old vids up though eh?
L1NK666XL1NK666 2 years ago 3
One thought that was nagging at me while watching Randy's video is the fact that, no, not all of us have read all those books. It seems a bit inconsiderate of those who have not taken all the same steps. Perhaps from Randy's own POV, it's all just rehashing what's been done before, but that's only his POV. For plenty of other people, it is new. Not everyone has gone through the whole library and can share the perspective of it being "behind" them.
brainpolice2 2 years ago
Also. Randy is a man of a certain age. The vast majority of people on YouTube are not his age. It takes time to have read all the books behind Randy in his video. Also I bet Corey and Randy have read books they felt were a waste of time. Would it be useful to get opinions of such books?
Mjhavok 2 years ago
he just thinks he's so smart cuz he can read.
bubonicnate 2 years ago
Take it easy Anton and thanks for your time. Hope to see a few new vids up now and again. Also 'theres nothing new under the sun' - i came up with that. :-)
NoAddedAnything 2 years ago
It sucks that you're leaving youtube I just found your channel and havent even gotten into your old vids yet. The titles look interesting though.
fauyd 2 years ago 3
I'll still be around. Now and then.
Professoranton 2 years ago
you'll be missed. will you be leaving the old videos up? (thanks for all the great content!)
PerennialLucidity 2 years ago
"intellectual property" is not subject to scarcity, thus impossible to render it as a type of property at all.
auamoti 2 years ago 2
E. Goffman: "Of all things in the world, information is the hardest to guard, because it can be stolen without removing it."
Professoranton 2 years ago
Commune.
TWITfromURANUS 2 years ago
Hi Prof Anton. I think Randy was directly speaking to you when he said the answer is not in the books. He wasn't giving a general prescription for everyone. It would be nice not to generalize what he said as a set of rules that he may believe as imperative for everybody.
davius4321 2 years ago 2
you're coming into your own here on the tube. please stay.
Barklord 2 years ago 8
Your not going to find the original intellectual dialogue your looking for here professor. Most people here are like hamsters running on a spinning wheel. They just keep going round in circles.
FriendOregon 2 years ago
The professor kicking some arse! love it.
FriendOregon 2 years ago 3
gorgeous isn't it?
Cashify 2 years ago
I think reading carelessly (not giving yourself time to think about what you are reading) is book consumption. There certainly are species of readers who read purely to consume.
ExistentialExistent 2 years ago
I think intelligence is largely willed as well. I also think books have transformed my intellect. I struggled with Being and Time. It was all gibberish to me at first and now I can read it fairly well.
ExistentialExistent 2 years ago
The two most difficult to understand books I've ever struggled to digest were;
The emperors new mind - Dr Roger Penrose
The Mumonkan - a collection of Zen Koans
In both cases I found that once I had started to get to grips with the content material it became a lot easier internally to think about. It was still difficult to articulate and anyone I spoke to about either thought it was a load of mystical mumbo jumbo totally disconnected to reality.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
simonodell 2 years ago 4
Yeah, one of the major issues I have in "real life" is that if I start to talk about interesting topics like philosophy or religion with friends, they give me that blank stare.. I've committed that unforgivable sin of talking about something other than football.
Not that I don't like football, mind you, just would be interesting to be able to talk about things a little more interesting from time to time. One reason I really dig YouTube! :)
pfarabee 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You think you're too cool for youtube ProfessorAnton??....... well let me tell you something..... You Aren't!
TheObnubilators 2 years ago
Yeah WHY DOES HE have all those books behind him?
Btw, might want to change that backround on your channel page before you call someone out on that.
Sorry if I was indelicate or having fun at your expense there. Loved your line about the situation being hopless but not serious. "Life is too important to be taking seriously" ---we have forgotten who said it...maybe it was ME!
Cashify 2 years ago
I aspire to be well read; I prefer Epicurus but I have enjoyed a little (although certainly not enough) Epictetus. There are also many other mediums I enjoy that a person needs to 'struggle to win.' Music, film, etc. Some YouTube content fits this category, including your own videos. Randyhelzerman's point (if I have understood) is not that all consumption is equal (reading and snack food), but that YouTube is not just about consumption. Something your dialogues on other channels exemplify. TBC
RowanFortuneWood 2 years ago
In saying that reading is a form of consumption is Randyhelzerman really prescribing that people stop reading? That certain kinds of consumption are not elevated? That consumption of certain types cannot be a struggle. I could be wrong but I do not think he is contradicting you on any of this; I would be surprised if he believes that we should replace all reading with original videos on YouTube. TBC
RowanFortuneWood 2 years ago
He is wrong that you are only elucidating unoriginal ideas from books, but at the same time he is right that this medium has more potential than you are giving it credit for. I have had a lot of my views challenged on YouTube; on ethics this place has helped me understand errors not only in my beliefs but in my approach. Yes there is garbage, but the same is true with books. Any browse through a mainstream bookshop will reveal more pulp than anything on the level of Epictetus. TBC
RowanFortuneWood 2 years ago 2
Anyway, your channel has proved fascinating. I hope you can find something worthy about this website and continue to upload content. Undoubtedly it has problems; it can be overly hostile and sometimes just silly. It is not a substitute for other mediums. Still, I think it has potential. I also hope your dialogue with Randyhelzerman continues; I find much to like in both perspectives and I doubt the exchange has exhausted itself.
RowanFortuneWood 2 years ago 4
"Any browse through a mainstream bookshop will reveal more pulp than anything on the level of Epictetus. "
Ain't that the truth. The superior number of books in the astrology/supernatural section over the science and philosophy section in some book stores is cringe worthy.
Mjhavok 2 years ago
Plus all the banal celebrity crap.
Mjhavok 2 years ago
And even what philosophy they do stock tends to be limited; e.g. the same 'The Open Society' book in every philosophy section and nothing of Popper's superior epistemological work. Once I encountered the philosophy section on one shelf at the bottom of four pop psychology shelves.
RowanFortuneWood 2 years ago
:-(
In Waterstone's in my city centre there is at least a philosophy section with multiple shelves. My problem is there is just as much crap non-subjects, if not more. People are addicted to nonsense. Check out Chris Hedges latest article at TruthDig.
Mjhavok 2 years ago
I love how he intentionally taped his video response with the books in the background in a blatant attempt to prove he "knows" more than you. And yet he doesn't even realize his own ideas are intimately related to the words in all of those books.
gredgre99 2 years ago
All Randy's videos have those books in the back. It wasn't a ploy directed at Corey.
Mjhavok 2 years ago 3
engaging demanding textures do transform the self, studying distinct paces of perception do extend the mind, adjusting to alternative conceptual rhythms..etc etc: that's the thing that's worth it!
almafarag 2 years ago
I canceled a book club of mine because I was overwhelmed by the material of the book I chose. The people who watch my videos, most, do not share my interests in books. You will probably have more success considering you are offering up philosophical non-fiction which you are prepared to discuss. I for one, enjoy ficition and mental health narratives. Those choices are not easy to discuss unless you are an Oprah type book club.
melsbasketcase 2 years ago
Would you like to be in on a reading group? Several have expressed interest already. We're going to start with the handbook of Epictetus. It is a profound resource for mental health.
If you'd like to be in on it, just send an email and I'll send you the reading.
Professoranton 2 years ago
Speaking of mental health I hear Carl Jung's "red book" is finally being published.
Cashify 2 years ago
Yeah, you can own your own copy for a measly $115 on Amazon...
SkepticalThought 2 years ago
One of the things I reluctantly learned on YouTube is that it's hard not to spend all your time in ego defence here.
For example, this morning I'm rewriting a manuscript...so I don't want to comb my hair, but I want to do a video response to this thought provoking video...
Your point about the transfomative power of books is excellent...I agree that you it's important to spend time with difficult texts...
But the same thing can happen with exchanges on YouTube too.
For example, I made...
2bsirius 2 years ago 4
[Con't] a speculative comment that I thought I saw a connect between fuzzy logic and deconstruction-Cashify responds by telling me I'm a moron...So I'm angry! [Did I mention ego defence? LOL
I'm so angry that I begin to research it and I begin to see more and more connections & now I'm really intrigued.
Then I begin to think about how I could make this into a video WITHOUT combing my hair...I might or might not do it, but I love the way my mind plays with these ideas. Even dead ends are fun
2bsirius 2 years ago 4
Karen there aren't any dead ends if you bring your mud pie sludge hammer or your mega blaster destruction gun. But you'll need to use your comb to avoid the split ends.
I LOVE you K and LOVED the fuzzy logic comment. I'm sure I did not call you a moron....though I confess to total irreverance for ideas in general.
Cashify 2 years ago
Just delete comments that are insulting with no content. Just block the users. Simple. You are not censoring them. You don't have any duty to give them a soap box on your channel so they can abuse you.
Mjhavok 2 years ago
Yeah, you gotta carry a big stick. Mine is a spiked club lovingly labeled "Trollcrusher"... I use it... alot.
It's either that or ignore them. Personally, I get a kick out of watching them go splat.
pfarabee 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I gotta say though. You have descended from and educated profound thinker lecturing for an audience to a pissed off vulnerable human being facing his own issues and buttons and ranting like 13 year old girl whose best friend just stole her boyfriend. What a spectacular, and genuinely impressive sight. Books don't have hyperlinks....that's why they're so difficult. You can tap the bold print all you want...no dice.
Cashify 2 years ago
Somewhere out there is guy who loves books who found a niche sourcing wikipedia articles. Since most of us learn everything we know from those articles, this dude is literally determining how concepts are defined BEFORE we debate about it on Youtube. I gotta go google Isaiah Berlin now.
Cashify 2 years ago
I also don't really get the idea that "originality" is worth anything at all. Surely the ideas are what are valued - originality is only an economic concern when concepts of private ownership are involved.....the only "true" form of originality can be in the way a new learner interprets ideas. For example, the idea of critiquing authoritative disambiguation is NEW to me. It might not be NEW to Randy, but I don't have decades of learning behind me like I assume he does.
Thanks again dude.
danielacheson 2 years ago 3
When the whole reason one wants to create a "profound new idea" is to be recognized for it...it MATTERS. If you genuinely love the exploration of ideas such that you would do it on a deserted island, then I see your point. For most people, not just academics, intellectual accomplishment is more about the ego trip than excellence, transformation or truth. Many people lose interest in their profound NEW creations when they find out it's been done before and they aren't the first to think of it.
Cashify 2 years ago
Maybe this idea of a desire for recognition is fundamentally absurd...I DO genuinely love learning, and I'm not going to let my own infantile egoistic desires get in the way of meaningful experience/learning processes.
I think it's a shame that many people do get caught in the "ego trap" (and I think all of us do, sometimes) instead of accepting new ideas, challenging them, and repeating the process over again. It's just a silly game...are people too focused on reputation?
danielacheson 2 years ago
not fundamentally absurd...it is based on social animal survival instinct...strong position in the clan...better mate selection...avoiding being banished and losing protection and resources of group...that sort of thing...and a certain level of roleplaying is required to maintain sustenance and shelter today as well...so it is at times very appropriate.
are we too focused? Yeah. keeping up appearances, looking good, gainging admiration, became a neurotic preoccupation.
watch?v=gg5gax4tCwU
Cashify 2 years ago
"intellectual accomplishment is more about the ego trip than excellence, transformation or truth."
Often, there are two dynamics resulting from an original motive and a genuine interest in discovering "truth" can also, inadvertently, serve the purpose of the survival driven aspect of the ego.
Picture yourself in a situation where your immediate action is required to save another from some accident and your NATURAL REACTION is to take that action. Then, as you have begun the action, (TBC)
1140Cecile 2 years ago
(Cont.) a split second later, your ego steps in and realizes that it will likely be rewarded for this action by the person saved and perhaps society at large appointing a hero status because your action.
My feeling is that most people who do discover "new" ideas are those who have a genuine interest in the subject matter. That genuine interest is their motive for learning. The fact that their ego then realizes that others will give them higher status for the discovery is not the motive.
1140Cecile 2 years ago
Great response man - I particularly like the point that books aren't available to everyone/some people may NOT have so much book-derived knowledge just yet.
Some of us are younger (20) and simply haven't had the time alive to digest so much information yet, but videos such as yours, that give specific examples of ideas (and open up opportunities for discussion of these ideas) often point me in other literary directions. I think your contributions are great, in this respect.
danielacheson 2 years ago 3
a post summation video indicates you can't 'quit anytime you want.' There's no patch for this. You may need to take up a distraction like porn or substance abuse.
Cashify 2 years ago 4