JFK: The Mysterious Death of Number Thirty-Five, Part 3(a)

[Boelcke1919]

The CIA? The MAFIA? Cubans? That is all part of the smoke screen. The people BEHIND them. That is where to look. None of those groups would have done this dirty deed without the tacit consent of the insiders, or their active orders. 

[Boelcke1919]

You know, I also agree that this assassination was largely about money and power ... and that includes the Federal Reserve Bank and all of that. Most people don't realize the depth of the hate that some bankers and big businessmen held for JFK and his brother Bobby. Do the research folks and you will see that steel executives, big oil men and many others, despise Kennedy and thought he was (1) weak on Communism (which they feared), and (2) was a socialist. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

[nicenonya3]

where is part one? what is this shit 3(a) and 3(b)????what happened to using 1,2,3,4,5,6,????

[nicenonya3]

anybody else think the shot Tippit so they could use his body and photos for the cover up?

[silversobe]

He was going to take down the Federal Reserve with Silver backed currency. Least this is what ive heard. So they shot him and his brother.

[larry1369]

Not to mention being the figurehead when we were dragged into a war with lies. I believe it was treasury sec. Oneil who said in the secret meetings the Iraq invasion was being planned months before 911 and oilfields on a grid map were being divided up amongst oil companies. You need to read ONeils' book since you won't believe anything that doesn't come from a republicans mouth. During Bushs' tenure Karl Rove designed a scheme to fire federal prosecutors who were carrying out investigations!

[larry1369]

A lot of the perceived weakness is due to all the red herrings put out to deliberately mislead. I can understand your skepticism when people like Jimmy Sutton Files say I was the shooter and people believe this con without thoroughly checking out his claims with a critical mind. I honestly think Garrison did a great job considering the govt. was spying on him to undermine his case not to mention failing to honor his subpoenas. The facts are Ruby knew Oswald as well as Nixon the architect of BOPs

[SecretOfLucent]

well Ted kennedy will not meet JFK or Jack,they will see him being dragged to hell for an eternity of suffering in hell.Burn baby Burn !!

[cdddraftsman]

Even those who approve of the 1st 5 installments of Turner's TMWKK series tend to look less favorably upon the sixth that deals with Lt. Col. Daniel Marvin. While Marvin has a small coterie of believers , most are more skeptical. For example, researcher Allan Eaglesham was actively assisting Marvin in preparing a book until he found Marvin changing elements of his tale that were being challenged. Sure fire sign of another in a long and drearysome list of JFK Assassination Conspiracy Hoaxers !

[ThinkFreeBeFree]

have you read to the constitution or not?  have you read the declaration of independence? The "Kings" are back for what we took from them, not, long ago.

[larry1369]

There is no one as blind as he who will not see. Read the book Expendable Elite. Capt. Marvin was approached by the CIA to kill Pitzer. He refused the assignment when he was told Pitzer was an Officer of the USN.He became a born again Christian and wrote a book!! There is a reason Louis Bloomfieds' widow refuses to release his papers. Oh yeah maybe the fact that HW is still living has something to do with that. The evidence of a conspiracy is overwhelming.

[cdddraftsman]

The most stupid of the 'Big whoppers' ever told by Con-spiracy Apologists was the one about Pitzer . We're expected to believe that the USG/Military asked someone who was suspect on accepting a assassination hit just because it didn't fit in with his moral values ? Hahaha ! There's no evidence he ever assassinated anyone , he never provided any , but plenty of evidence that he lied because gullible people world wide who love to feast on grist milled produce .

[cdddraftsman]

The Capt. Marvin charade of course appeared on the criminal star studded cast of TMWKK were THC is on record for airing a series itself considers

"irresponsible".

Bar McClellan : Admitted on Oct./82 that he was found guilty of forging a 35K deed of trust . That got him disbarred from the practice of law .

Madelin Brown : Brown v State of Texas 11/06/92 jury finds Brown guilty of forging will . Sentenced to 10 yrs.

[cdddraftsman]

LeRoy Factor : (TMWKK 'The Guilty Men') Glen Samples' co-author Mark Collom discovered Factor while in a isolation ward at McAlester Oklahoma prison for the strangulation death of his wife , Collom was in for 16 months on a drug related charge .

Bevery Oliver : "The FBI confiscated my film" identify's herself in Nix & Z-film's which shows a lady who is a housewife , short , heavy set and 30 to 40+- in appearance . Photo's of Oliver show

a 'Exotic Dancer' , tall , slim in her 20's mid 20's .

[cdddraftsman]

Nathan Darby : "The fingerprints are those of LBJ's hitman Mac Wallace on boxes in the snipers nest" .

"Just to clarify this proved to be an erroneous identification , Wallace is not tied to the 'snipers nest' by fingerprints , Darby is either deceased or is no longer certified by the IAI , the match was incorrect"

Kasey Wertheim

IAI Certified Print Examiner

The list of criminals types & felons that Nigel Turner used to fabricate and then 'Hi-jack History is phenominal .

[cdddraftsman]

What about producer of propaganda Nigel Turner ?

After accusing 3 individuals of being 'Corsican Hit Men' , the French Gov. provided iron clad proof of the whereabouts of all 3 , reporters found one named Pironti , then a 80ish frail retiree living in France . Why didn't Turner interview Pironti before making the allegations he replied :

"I thought it would be too dangerous".

What a hooter ! Public Is So Gullible ! Conned by Lane to Garrison to Fetzer *They* still believe in J-tards.

[cdddraftsman]

So in essence you're right 'The evidence for conspiracy is overwhelming' .

Conspiracists & their co-conspirators have made a overly guilty LHO innocent in the minds of the public & replaced him with 218 alternate assassins , 12 shot locations , 15 shots fired , 44 major entitys involved in a massive conspiracy for personal profit & self aggrandizement .

The criminal research community have mocked one of God's commandments : "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor"

[larry1369]

It's funny how you say these people are not credible because of instances of small time fraud. HW smuggled tons of cocaine in this country and never even faced a judge. I laugh at your naivete having researched the Dirty Bushs' Yeah I know Clinton was involved in the cocaine thing too. Just google Mena, Cocaine, Clinton Bush murder!!!!!!! Then maybe you will wake the fuck up and not only believe the crap on Fox and MSNBC!!!!!

[cdddraftsman]

Does 218 suspects in the assassn. mean that some of them must have conspired to kill JFK ? Or does it indicate the weakness of CT's ?

In real-world criminal investigations having literally dozens of suspects is an indication that the probe is in very deep & serious trouble.

The evidence isn't converging to point to one suspect or a few suspects who may have conspired. The evidence against 1 suspect is about as good as the evidence against any other :

Which means it's no good at all.

[cdddraftsman]

How Big a Conspiracy?

Conspiracists seem to like big conspiracies. Such conspiracies allow the theorist to explain away all the evidence against LHO. After all, all the witnesses & investigators who produced such evidence can be branded liars & big conspiracies are satisfying because they can include all the groups one happens to dislike. But do these CT's pass muster as sound logic ? Well they do if JFK was killed by what Bugliosi has tabulated as 218 assassin's & 44 major entity's SO FAR !

[larry1369]

JFK had a lot of legitimate enemies in powerful places. Not to mention the CIA disinformation programs specifically designed to keep Americans in the dark. The richest man in the US and possibly the world at the time financed a book after the murder titled Khruchev Killed Kennedy. I suspect that this man was involved in the plot as he immediately left the country and hung out with his armed guards in Mexico til things cooled down. His name of course was HL Hunt. Permindex, LBJ, Hoover all knew!!

[cdddraftsman]

instances of small time fraud

You call being disbarred from practicing as a attorney and forging a will : Penalty 10yrs. min. .... small time ?

If rouge elements of the CIA did any smuggling of drugs it wasn't at the behest of politicians . They did it to buy arms for freedom fighters that the JFK Do-Gooder Demorats cut off best they didn't defeat their main allie , the communists .

[larry1369]

Are you unaware of Bush's prior CIA service the operational name for the Bay of Pigs was Operation Zapata. The name of Bush's oil co. at the time was Zapata Offshore. They repainted two naval vessels as to not implicate the US in the attack. The ships were renamed Barbara and Houston. Did I mention HW lived in Houston at the time. I'm sure you're outraged by the fact that Bush perjured himself when he was asked if he had ever worked for the CIA during his confirmation hearings for the topCIA job

[cdddraftsman]

Bush never worked for the CIA before becoming it's chief . He overheard a conversation between campaign workers that sounded suspicious and he reported it . This ballooned into him being a CIA agent .

Just like Clay Shaw who filled out a standard Q. form , like 1000's of other ppl , for CIA because he travelled abroad & it was required after returning . The CIA kept track of travellers to see if the KGB was trying to recruit Americans for espionage purposes. So no I wasn't outraged at all.

[cdddraftsman]

BP was killed prior to a great job for a lot of money

Factoid : The construct was that he was going to have his JFK autopsy film (no film was taken) ready & go work for a major media company exposing a conspiracy . Hmmm ?

Fact : He was in financial distress , committed suicide , maybe trying to make it look like murder , so his kin could collect (military benifits/life insurance). After TMWKK was exposed as wholesale fraud it sank into well deserved obscurity.

[larry1369]

This is where you are incredibly naive. He doesn't remember where he was the day JFK was murdered. Hoover mentions George Bush of the CIA in a Memo released under FOIA. Instead of just saying everything I'm telling you is false look into the history of what is known and uncontested. #1 Prescott Bush was supporting the Nazis and had his bank confiscated for trading with the enemy. Dulles was also involved with the Nazis and brought over quite a few war criminals to work for the CIA. Just research

[cdddraftsman]

JEH mentions GHWB of the CIA

Hoover is in his late 60's , he's constantly making mistakes , he at one point is talking to LBJ about the sequence of the assassin & comments that :

"we have his (LHO's) rifle on the 5th floor"

Missing his target by a full floor ! There is no indication that the George Bush he's talking about is the same GHWB . Again ! GHWB overheard a threat , reported it & some of these reports got on CIA memo's about the event . BFD ?

This doesn't make him CIA .

[cdddraftsman]

Clinton ... tied in to laundering cocaine $ from Iran/Contra

AAMOF that was done under the Reagan Administration enshrining the words :

"I don't recall"

A statement Nixon should of used .

George Bush of the CIA

The logical absurdities of suggesting this is silly . If Bush is involved w/the 'Evil Minions of Conspiracy' Why TF report anything ? He'd be laying out of sight . Shows how grasping at straws ruined any way of finding a residule of conspiracy under layers of bunk .

[cdddraftsman]

I'm sorry :

Op Zapata ? Bush's oil co. ? Zapata Offshore ? Barbara & Houston ?

U seem to grasp the implication that the Bush's r capable of doing the most astonishing adventures as 'Evil Minions of Conspiracy'

But when it comes to a simple thing like covering their ass so media reporters , CTer's , ect. can't track their dastardly deeds later , it's relatively easy to find connections everywhere ?

This defies any known logic that I would of accepted in the 70's let alone today.

[larry1369]

You seem to be totally oblivious to the Bush Legacy. I find this amusing. Your lack of accountability for Bush misdeeds would be akin to me saying that Clinton didn't lie about sex with Monica and that he wasn't tied in to laundering cocaine profits from Iran/Contra. I will venture to say that most people are still in the dark about the early to mid eighties cocaine importation by "Rogue" elements of the CIA under VP Bushs'

direct control via OllieNorth and Poindexter. Wake up it's not a theory!

[cdddraftsman]

U seem 2 B totally oblivious to Bush legacy

I won't be getting my history from the nutballs on YT , who cater to peasized brains w/a memory span of 10 min. or less .

If desperation drove ppl to sell cocaine (In demand by the ppl) because (D) leftest socialists made laws that betrayed our vows to fight tyrany the "accountability for" this happening is squarely in your ball park , not mine . D-tards never learned that when the freedom of one man is threatened all mens freedoms are .

[cdddraftsman]

Hoovers FBI Memo :

"Bush's duties w/ the C.I.A." in 1963 -- whether he was an "agent" , an "asset" or "not GHWB" , but a different "GB" altogether-- cannot be determined from JEH's memo. because no list going back that many yrs is kept of all agents , assets , operatives & dozens of other levels of help they drew upon w/many patriotic non-paid ppl donating their services also . If the memo is correct GHWB would use it as a asset when applying for the CIA position by having past experience .

[larry1369]

I'm sure you know a lot more than you pretend to. Bush was employed by the CIA whether as a contract agent or a high level mgr. we will never know until our govt. releases all the documents they are still holding from us. The govt. failure to release all the documents has been ignored despite two Presidential orders to the fact. I assert that he was involved in Operation Zapata and probably suggested the name changes for the US Naval Vessels which were used. Guess what HW named his planes in WW2

[cdddraftsman]

2) liberal politicians like O'Neil loved drug laws because it gave him a opportunity to accept $ so he could make more moral behavior regulating laws . JE Hoover saw thru this charade & distanced his agency away from corrupting influences that would of destroyed the FBI . That's why he never admitted the existence of the Mafia . What we need are laws that regulate law makers . Their inclinations to make laws that exculpate the guilty in order to incriminate the innocent is the problem .

[larry1369]

Are you serious Hoover was such a meglomaniac that he would do anything to stay in office, including sanctioning the murder of the President and covering it up. Senior FBI agents were chomping at the bit to silve the JFK murder and they were told by Hoover to cease and desist "We have our man". Because I know you have studied the murder even more than myself try and explain how Oswald landed the job at the TBSD just prior to the murder and the identical plot Abraham Bolden tried tp make WC aware

[cdddraftsman]

we will never know until our govt. releases all the docs

The docs larry are false hopes of finding incriminations that never existed just as the grassy knoll assassin is a false hope of finding JFK's real killer .

The real assassin incriminated himself before he left that morning : "Lee never took his ring off. Marina realized what it meant. Lee had not shot JFK spontaneously , he had intended to do it when he left for work"

HSCA : "Did u tell Ms.Johnson that"?

Mrs. Porter : "Yes"

[larry1369]

If you have studied the acoustical evidence you already know there was a shooter on the grassy knoll as well as persons with phony secret service credentials around the assassination area. Triangulation of fire. This hit could not fail or heads would have rolled. Dorothy Kilgallen found some things out as did Roger Craig but I'm sure you know of the long list of murdered witnesses and have explained them all away. The fact that our country ran a secret assassination school should make you aware

[cdddraftsman]

The 81 Committee on Ballistic Acoustics charged with reviewing HSCAs acoustic's concluded the acoustic evidence was invalid. Donald Thomas, who performed 1st independent peer review of the HSCA's work , most think was an expert on acoustic , never read Thomas' report on his work w/the acoustic evidence in which he acknowledges that "he is not an acoustic expert" *.

* Dr. Donald B. Thomas, Hear No Evil : The Acoustical Evidence in the Kennedy Assassination, November 17, 2001, p.1

[cdddraftsman]

something everyone knows

Thats what I've been waiting for . So far you've told us all the 60's amatuer bunk factoids that were meant as bedtime stories for kiddies .

mystery murder witnesses

If only 200 ppl to date died out of 26,000 interviewed by the FBI for the WCR in 45 yrs , the best chance of living long & prosperous was to have been involved in JFK Assassn. & there r many different lists . 1 list has a man on it that died from a heart attack & fell over the 'Eternal Flame' !

[jimmyofaden]

@cdddraftsman Sir I read your comment and I myself have looking for such a list as you mention. I think that our gov got rid of anyone who could lay doubt to a lone gunman and a magic bullit theory...If you know where I can find such a list of witnesses please contact me ..thank you. I was 6 y/o when they murdered our President..I still seek the answer. I believe that LHO was innocent of this crime and like he said " Im just a patsy, I didn't kill anybody. Thanks if you can help , Jim

[cdddraftsman]

Bush was employed by the CIA

The Bush family has a long documented history of being wildcatters (gamblers for black gold) , politicians & serving their country honorably . How envious you are manifests itself in displays of illogical connections in real world events (were there aren't any) Grasping at straws by creating scenerio's in ones own mind when accusations of wrong doing fails. You then forget that LHO was apparently good at doing what he set out to do w/out much help from anyone.

[larry1369]

Serving their country honorably? Let's start with Prescott who had his bank confiscated for trading with the enemy(The Nazis). Nixon was chosen by Prescott to run for office. It has been asserted that Nixon in WW2 while working in Naval Intelligence came across documents concerning the transfer of Nazi assets out of the country. HW smuggled tons of cocaine into this country and I personally suspect him in the murder of JFK at the operational level. HW's sons have been involved in election fraud!

[larry1369]

You know so much yet understand so little. Why don't you take all these puzzle pieces you already have and start putting them together instead of insisting all of these events are just wild coincidences. I truly must ask myself What is your impetus for not acknowledging the unignorable? You don't seem stupid quite the contrary so what is your vested interest in spreading myths? I don't like to assume that people who know a lot of facts of this murder yet fail to admit irregularities are shills!

[larry1369]

Funny how the same people who conspire to distribute tons of cocaine will put a kid in the ghetto in prison for 20 years for a marble sized rock of crack. This is the problem with the R-tards they think their hypocrisy and total disrespect for the laws go unnoticed. Oh I forgot that they are above the law, not in my mind that's an R-tard ploy.........

[cdddraftsman]

1) same ppl who conspire to distribute tons of cocaine put kid in prison for 20 yrs

Alcohol Prohibition : Gansters / mafia / bribes / corrupt politicians/police / drive by shootings / citizens=criminals all because USG trys regulating moral behavior

Drug Prohibition : Cartels / Mafia / bribes / corrupt politicians/police / drive by shootings / citizens=criminals all because USG trys " " " " .

Google (D) Tip O'Neal & the Conspiracy Laws in the aftermath of Len Bias death . Corrupt (D)

[larry1369]

The only reason that drugs are still illegal in this country is because certain elements above the law make billions of dollars from them. It's already public knowledge who set up the drug warlords in the triangle. Provide airplanes, weapons, communications equipment. Why am I telling you something everyone knows? Maybe it's because you refuse to acknowledge your countries invovement in these macabre schemes. ou need to forget you are conservative republican and object to what is done by cronies

[cdddraftsman]

your countries invovement in these macabre schemes

Are you talking about CTer's who invented them I agree that Dark Machinations laid the spiritual ground work for todays bizarre plots behind 911.

In both cases the obviously guilty culprits are ignored in favor of politically expediant and more desirable targets for personal profit and self aggrandizement .

:-(Paste your sad face here)-:

[cdddraftsman]

having researched the Dirty Bushs

No doubt tons of 'Big Whoppers' like the Capt. Marvin charade . Supposedly killed because he filmed the JFK autopsy ? The USG confiscated the film (which never existed) very convenient for the construct . If he had 1/2 a brain he would of hid or made copies of the film , so where is it ? You'll probably find it on the evidence table next to LHO's "curtain rods" when they show up .

Same old boring unimaginative CT hoax's that havent changed in 45 yrs .

[cdddraftsman]

Did Garrison do a great job considering

Garrison said Shaw had been Q'd 3x's before being arrested & only became a suspect after the 2nd interrogation; Shaw had been questioned 2x by Garrison's office & had been a suspect almost since the investigation began.

Garrison claimed he had been against using witness Charles Spiesel; everyone else remembered Garrison being the one who made the decision to use Spiesel.

[cdddraftsman]

Garrison said that David Ferrie was still alive at the time of Shaw's arrest Ferrie died on 2/22/67 it was Ferrie's death that brought forth Perry Russo, Garrison's sole justification in arresting Shaw on 3/1/67.

Garrison claimed that Ferrie was to be indicted before he died; there were no plans to arrest Ferrie at that time, as James Alcock confirmed.

Garrison was asked how many witnesses he had at the time of Shaw's arrest; Garrison refused to answer. (Alcock testified that Russo was it)

[cdddraftsman]

Garrison was asked "hadn't put Bundy on the stand knowing his story had undergone many changes" Hadn't Garrison stated to a staff member, "We did not tell him to lie; put him on the stand"? He refused to answer.

Garrison was asked if anything came out of his investigation aside from the Shaw persecution; Garrison said yes when asked to elaborate he refused

Garrison said a "public report detailing his investigation" would be forthcoming

"to the citizens of N.O." (It never arrived.)

[cdddraftsman]

Shouldn't be a wonder Y hapless ppl like larry1369 r so confused by bedtime stories for kiddies :

Garrison's 'Clinical Psychopathology' in 1952 relieved him of duty in the Nat.Guard. Dr's at the Brooke Army Hosp Tx diagnosed "suffering from a "severe & disabling psychoneurosis" which interfered w/his social & prof. adjustment" & "is considered totally incapacitated from the standpoint of military duty & moderately incapacitated in civilian adaptability" & recommended long-term psychotherapy.

[larry1369]

Are you aware that a jury came to the conclusion that the US Govt. murdered Rev. King. I admit I only became aware of this myself last year. The trial took place in the late 90's. The only newspaper that covered this trial was a small one from Spain so I would not be surprised if you were in the dark about this. The King family came to the conclusion that Ray was a patsy and were trying to get a new trial for him but he passed away before they were able to achieve this. A patsy like Oswald.

[cdddraftsman]

a jury concluded that the USG murdered Rev. King.

Taint likely . If it was such a BIG CONCLUSION why did only such a SMALL NEWSPAPER in a foreign country cover it ?

Seems to me some newspapers here could of made alot of $ off a story like this .

Or it wasn't a story at all or it's been distorted by you (most likely)

Provide citation .

The King family concluded JER was a patsy

I wouldn't doubt it during the Civil War many blacks fought for the CSA (for slavery) Go figure .

[larry1369]

You seem reasonably intelligent and I believe I know where your thought process goes awry. You believe that in a free country with a free press how could all these stories of misdeeds not come to light! I used to have similar beliefs until the light came on. Who controls the media controls the thoughts of Americans. As a Republican you were probably outraged by Clintons' perjury but fail to have any problem with Alberto Gonzalez firing prosecutors who were investigating crimes by GOP lawmakers.

[cdddraftsman]

Pitzers death suicide ...no explanation for mangled hand

Doesn't mean it's automatically a conspiracy .

until the light came on

Thats a indicator light that u suffer from a 'paranoid mentality'

outraged by Clintons' perjury

I don't follow politics , I did think that they ganged up on him for no good reason because it proved my point that if D.C. couldn't keep a 'blow job' in the WH between 2 adults a secret , HTF was it able to keep JFK's death by conspiracy a secret ?

[cdddraftsman]

who controls the media controls the thoughts of Americans

This is easy to debunk in the fact that no two Americans have or can agree on one exactely the same conspiracy theory in JFK's death .

"I used to have similar beliefs until" I realized that TMWKK was funded by The History Channel controlled by A&E NetWorks which in turn is owned by mass media giants ABC , CBS & NBC .

So much for mass media controlling the thoughts of this countrys mobocracy that doesn't want to think anyway .

[larry1369]

Just because you are unaware does not make it untrue. It should be pretty easy to google the trial and get all the info you need. I would recommend that you get the actual transcripts and do some studying. This might lead to an awakening or enlightenment of thought. You are real good at trying to discredit anyone who provides evidence that disagree with the tight little confines of your mind. Now we shall see if you can take off the rose colored glasses and get a clue. Google Mena Bush Clinton

[cdddraftsman]

a new trial 4 him but passed away. A patsy like LHO

Well that means according to law and JFK said "We are a Nation of laws not of men" Ray remains the official convicted killer , by a jury in a adversarial procedure , of MLK and NOT A "PATSY" !

JE Ray had as much chance of 'Hi-Jacking History' as Sirhan or the lovers of the commy hero and 'Red Romeo' LHO.

US Demorats (left wing) are so theoretically empty , they have to side the Islamic enemy in order to have a platform to speak .

[larry1369]

OK Pitzers death was ruled a suicide by the govt. who had no explanation for his mangled hand and threatened his widow in a phone call. He was killed just prior to his retirement and his acceptance of a great job for a lot of money back then. Marvin also names the next man who he believes was asked to carry out the murder. This individual had a long career with a CIA front company and became an MD. I was in the military and saw tons of things. Are you a veteran? I can't believe your so naive!

[cdddraftsman]

"stupid is not spelled "stewpid"."

Sorry I didn't want to insult those who are classified as only being stupid .

"Ill ask which shot caused riccochet to strike Tague in cheek???"

Spelled 'ricochet' :-0

Take your pick 1st or 3rd shot .

[cdddraftsman]

"EARL WARREN who said we will never know the whole truth"

The truth has come forward :

LHO killed JFK because JFK through his actions (BoP & Missile Crisis) threatened LHO final utopic destination :

Cuba !

[migo53333]

Mr. Draftsman......stupid is not spelled "stewpid". Ill ask again: How and which shot caused riccochet to strike Tague in cheek???

[cdddraftsman]

"Jack Ruby was many things & compassionate was not one of them"

Many ppl who knew JR said that he was compassionate towards the Kennedy family and would 'bounce' ppl out of his bar if they made off color remarks about the Kennedy's , long before any of this ever came up . You just don't know your history , that's your problem .

"OZ looked @ Ruby just before Ruby shot him"

No way to tell that. JR sprung out from behind newsmen at the last second and that's on film .

YOU'RE NUTS !

[migo53333]

I must say also Mr. Draftsman, that none of you debunkers never talk about the impossibility of 399 being found in excellent shape, after creating all the damage it supposedly did....

[kcsunshine64]

Jack Ruby a model citizen who was taken pity on poor Jackie, WTF? Hehehe!

The same Jack Ruby who was violent throughout his life, beat up his dancers, patrons, was kicked out of the army for assaulting his CO, who was in debt due to gambling and failed "business" ventures, who changed his name because he was paranoid about being persecuted by anti-semites. The saviour of the Kennedy's? Or the same Jack Ruby who was contacted by the FBI nine times in the period of March 11 to October 2, 1959??

[kcsunshine64]

If Oswald wasn't looking at Ruby then who was he looking at? It wasn't a casual glance, it was one of recognition, stills of the footage would strongly attest to that. Oh yeah and I suppose Oswald and Ferrie didn't know each other either. Another lie of the Warren Commission exposed!

And when was Earl Warren now deceased for 34 years supposed to have made this monumnetal summation on Oswald's motive?Another of your bush league fabrications no doubt.

[kcsunshine64]

"Hoover lied his eyes out....on Oswald, on Ruby,on their friends, you name it" Hale Boggs.

" We have not beeen told the truth about Oswald"; Senator Richard Russell

" The Warren Report will fall like a house of cards"; Senator Richard Schweiker.

" The Pentagon had destroyed its Kennedy assassination file" Representative Richardson Preyer.

JFK had several poerful enemies with far greater motive and opportunity than Oswald had.

Lone assassin? Too funny!

[kcsunshine64]

Be sure to leave cookies for santa and carrots for his reindeer. You're a certifiable idiot my friend, not worth the trouble it took to bring you into this world or the bother to take you out of it. Jack Ruby was a sleazy pimp, snitch, and he had no sympathy for anyone but himself. Premeditated murder, watch the film pal, tell me he wasn't stalking Oz. All too convenient that the DPD serveed him up to the Nixon snitch. You are in serious denial if you think otherwise.

[cdddraftsman]

"Jack Ruby was many things & compassionate was not one of them"

Many ppl who knew JR said that he was compassionate towards the Kennedy family and would 'bounce' ppl out of his bar if they made off color remarks about the Kennedy's , long before any of this ever came up . You just don't know your history , that's your problem .

"OZ looked @ Ruby just before Ruby shot him"

No way to tell that. JR sprung out from behind newsmen at the last second and that's on film .

YOU'RE NUTS !

[cdddraftsman]

RFK : "subject to being elected, I would like to re-open the Warren Commission"

Please provide citation , he never said that , AAMOF he supported the conclusions of the WCR.

WC member Senator Richard Russell & John McCloy : "I'm not completely satisfied in my own mind"

Hardly surprising since they only attended 25% of the WC meetings .

[cdddraftsman]

"We don't have any proof that LHO fired the rifle. No one has been able to put him in that building with a gun in his hand"

Statement taken hours after the assassin. and before eyewitnesses id'd LHO , fingerprint evidence was accumilated and a whole plethora of evidence was brought forward . Evidence that continues to build to this day .

[migo53333]

LHO eating lunch....

[cdddraftsman]

"Let's look at the eyewitness testimony also, not one witness could place Oswald at the window"

Eyewitness Brennan placed LHO at the window before during and after the assassination .

"only 2 ppl actually witnessed Tippit's shooting"

6 to 8 witnesses id'd LHO w/4 positively identifying him at the police lineup .

"This investigation was a joke from the beginning"

I take it you never read the WCR .

"as was the forged photograph"

The HSCA : "photo authentic & unaltered .

[migo53333]

Brennan never id"d LHO and stated the shooter was in no hurry after final shot fired....Tague hit by missed shot fired up at top of hill after turn onto Elm through tree branches, imposssible trajectory...constititutes additinal shot...daltex shooter....

[cdddraftsman]

Factoid :

"1 palm print was found on the rifle that LHO fired, a print that was weeks old"

Fact :

No other prints from anyone else , he held the assassn. weapon last !

Factoid :

"U talk of probability, well sir probabilities can't get convictions"

Fact:

They do everyday in courts of law when the suspect isn't caught w/a smoking gun in his hands . To a moral & legal certainty is based upon probability's , were the hell have you been ?

[migo53333]

good point and the jails are full of innocent people....

[cdddraftsman]

"good point and the jails are full of innocent people...."

Ya put there by JFK's stewpid "Fellow Americans" who think eye-witness testimony isn't the greatest cause of mis-carriage of justice in the US today !

[migo53333]

Hmmm..sounds like youre a conservative...now it makes sense....

[kcsunshine64]

yes and let's look at the fairy tale that asks us t believe that Jack Ruby;pimp, snitch, and all around sleazoid slayed Oz to spare poor Jackie the burden of a trial. PUHLEASE! Jack Ruby was many things and compassionate was not one of them. Look at the film, OZ looked directly at Ruby just before Ruby shot him. No question that they knew each other, just as there's no doubt that Oz knew David Ferrie, and there's photographic evidence to corroborate that.

[kcsunshine64]

other disbelievers include:Attorney General

Roert F.Kennedy "subject to being elected, I would like to re-open the Warren Commission"

Warren Commission member Senator Richard Russell " I'm not completely satisfied in my own mind that[Oswald] did plan and commit this act altogehter on his own".

Warren Commission member John McCloy " I no longer feel we had no credible evidence or reliable evidence in proof of a conspiracy"

And EARL WARREN who said we will never know the whole truth.

[cdddraftsman]

"EARL WARREN who said we will never know the whole truth"

The truth has come forward :

LHO killed JFK because JFK through his actions (BoP & Missile Crisis) threatened LHO final utopic destination :

Cuba !

[kcsunshine64]

lets try these qoutes "We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle. No one has been able to put him in that building with a gun in his hand" Jesse Curry, Dallas Police Chief. " The evidence that hey have[against Oswald] at the present time is not very,very strong....The case as it stands isn't strong enough to get a conviction". J.Edgar Hover FBI Director. " There wer huge gaps in the case,gaps we never did close" FBI director of domestic intelligence William Suillivan.

[kcsunshine64]

Bugliosi would have no problem with the paraffin test had it been positive, I'm sure.

Let's look at the eyewitness testimony also, not one witness could place Oswald at the window, only two people actually witnessed Tippit's shooting and could not agree on a physical description of the suspect.

This investigation was a joke from the beginning as was the forged photograph that so damned Oswald, one that anyone with the slightest knowledge of photography could tell was a fake.

[kcsunshine64]

so are we also to believe that fingerprint evidence is flawed and antiquated? One palm print was found on the rifle that Oswald was supposed to have fired, a print that was weeks old, none were found on the trigger. One palm print found amongst the dozens of boxes Oswald supposedly used to erect a sniper's nest, one print!

You talk of probability, well sir probabilities can't get convictions, so your argument is as ridiculous as your naive and outdated belief.

[kcsunshine64]

No fella, you are the Bozo, the burden of proof falls squarely on you Warren flunkies. You have never been able to proove Oswald killed Kennedy of Tippit and your narrow-minded belief in a hopelessly flawed report is quite sad really. What is so scientific about Bugliosi's theory. He refuses to admit the parrafin test is relevant. Why? Because it was negative on Oswald's cheek. There are many flaws in his "logic" as they're are in yours. So you STFU asswipe!

[kcsunshine64]

Johnson and Hoover were accessories after the fact. Vince Bugliosi... well he's a lawyer so of course lies. Lone gunman, I think not. The burden of proof is on the non-conspiracy ignoramus' to prove there was no conspiracy.

[cdddraftsman]

"The burden of proof is on the non-conspiracy ignoramus' 2 prove there was no conspiracy"

Sorry Bozo that's opposite of the scientific method . The default theory is the USG's because it was the first . It's up to proponents of this extraordinary conspiracy to provide extrordinary proof and so far we've seen diddly shit . What they've shown would be laughed out of court in 2 min.'s . When you come up w/218 possible assassin's & can't tell ppl 'Who Killed JFK' , I say STFU & Sit Down !

[cdddraftsman]

Bob Harris : "Please look at my video response, which (I think) explains that"

This is whats been termed "Bun Fights" by LNer's . The false and fesecous comments between co-con-spirators in the cover up of LHO's guilt !

[ponybobreno]

More Nonsense..I believe Vince Bugliosi more than any of these dillentantes.

[bouncer97]

sounds like a personal problem PONY...id look into that scumbag.

[bobharris77]

Pat, JBC said he heard a noise and then he was hit. But he never looked at JFK then and had no way of knowing if he was hit or not.

Nellie OTOH, DID say that JFK was hit by one shot and JBC, another. Please look at my video response, which (I think) explains that.

[bobharris77]

Also, consider that the one thing that JBC and Nellie disagreed on was that he said he began to shout AFTER he was hit.

"..I immediately, when I was hit, I said, 'Oh, no, no, no'"

Nellie said he yelled first and was hit later.

"I recall John saying 'Oh, no, no, no, no.' Then there was a second shot, and it hit John."

Nellie just didn't realize that her husband was wounded then. Of course, HE did.

[cdddraftsman]

"BTW, he'd become famous for "stealing" the Zapruder film before he was hired by the HSCA"

I see Pat screwed that one up too ! Jim Garrison against the wishes of the Kennedy family made copies of the Z-film during the Clay Shaw trial and that is what Groden used .

[octcalderon]

look at this look it up

JFK Conspiracy? PROOF finally revealed! (with SOUND)

[octcalderon]

how the hell you know all of this are you a spy?

[cdddraftsman]

"how the hell you know all of this are you a spy?"

CIA . When your close to the firm they let you have the dope on all sorts of disreputable people . :-) Smile your on candid camera !

[cdddraftsman]

To Pat Speer : "so anyone claiming he'd stole the autopsy photos"

He didn't need to admit to it the Globe Magazine said they paid him $50,000 for them , were have you been ?

[ironbaulz]

Obviously Kennedy wasn't a part of the Illumanati or the skulls and bones society and the major reason why he was killed.

[arnold4peace]

the best jfk assassination book youl ever read if you can find it in a store is michael collins piper 'final judgement'

with enough footnotes to fill an encyclopedia.

[Obelisk2290]

If you want enough evidence footnotes and citations to choke a horse Read Reclaiming history or wait 2 years for the Tom Hanks miniseries

[darklcd]

One thing throws me off. The first photo from 1:52 shows the front right of the head being blown out, same as the zapruder film. But every other photo I see shows the back of the head being exited. I'm no ballistics expert, but I know from shooting guns that shooting things with a hard shell and soft inside, a watermelon or barrel (like a skull), the bullet won't deflect. If Oswald was shooting from the right of JFK, the bullet should have exited on the left. Where did you get the photos from?

[PatSpeer]

There are no photos showing the "back of the head being exited." The photos used in my video series and on my webpage, patspeer dot com, are copies of those in the archives. Two men, a Secret Service agent named James Fox, and a former employee of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, Robert Groden, made copies for themselves and provided them to the research community.

[Obelisk2290]

Groden is not expert and he stole the autopsy pictures. He has adnitted this He has never taken or taught a course on photographic analysis.Keep in mind he also said under oath that OJ;s Bruno Maglic pics were fake too. The only fake one here is groden, totally discredited. the P film clarly shows a rear shot as the exit wound was above his right ear The blood and tissue EXITS THE FRONT. NO CONSPIRACY STOP AND GET A LIFE

[PatSpeer]

What? The authenticity of Groden's photos have been confirmed numerous times. Furthermore, very few people rely on his interpretation of the photos, so his flakiness has no reflection on the conspiracy community as a whole. BTW, he'd become famous for "stealing" the Zapruder film before he was hired by the HSCA, so anyone claiming he'd stole the autopsy photos without a wink-wink nudge nudge from above is LYING.

[Obelisk2290]

he also was using footage that he did not recieve permission to do for his dealley plaze tour. Also he has claimed that he has a picture of Milteer on houston street. Again Groden does not have any EVIDENCE

[PatSpeer]

I agree that many of Groden's interpretations are incorrect, but fail to see what this has to do with my video or webpage. Many single-assassin theorists are as wacky as anyone to come from the conspiracy camp. Witness historian Max Holland, who got the NY Times to publish that the first shot was fired before Zapruder began filming the motorcade, even though none of the eyewitnesses suggested such nonsense.

[Obelisk2290]

Holland does not have EVIDENCE. Jim Marss said that the ZF waas edited because the limo drove up on the curb and had to back out to straighten up. There is plenty of footage of the limo going by the TSBD and gree made a flawlessturn onto elm from the center lane. The point I am trying to make is that all of them are wrong or willingly lie. All of them. Oliver, Hill, Hoffman, Craig, Simmons,Delgado,etc. All lie even though the EVIDENCE contradicts them. Damn facts, dont confuse them with it

[QUODDYDAM]

Bugliosi suggests suspecting American statesmen is an attack against America. Surprising, because it suggests there is not equal justice under the law, once one reaches a respected position. JFK was perhaps the victim of a religious war, organized by anti-Catholic secret societies. QuoddydaMcom suggests that the conspiracy was international and did involve Russia, as well as Canada, England, and other countries.

IF THERE WAS A CO-CONSPIRACY IT WAS CONTRIVED YEARS IN ADVANCE

[cdddraftsman]

To : QUODDYDAM "THERE WAS A CO-CONSPIRACY"

You only prove that a broken down conspiracy coo-coo clock can tell time accurately twice a day !

[noisivision]

Part Three continues in the next video.

[cdddraftsman]

We won't hold ours breaths . If it is as fouled up as the first few we won't be learning too much anyway . :-(

[cdddraftsman]

Jgar my hero and savior of American values for over five decades ! The day he passed away , we lost the battle against moral aloofness . His loss was greater than many battleships . :-(