@cfrylan Caligula* He is referring to the Roman Empire persecuting Christians in the early church. Caligula is one of the emperors who persecuted Christians most ruthlessly. Its possible Caligula came to power while Lazarus still lived after being raised by Jesus.
One Day . . . Sooooon. The Last Seven are soon upon us all. Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil. Isaiah 5:20 Blessed are you that you hear and see. Matthew 13:13
why doesn't he run for president? every speech I have seen him give every thing I have read he has written, has given the most candid logical answer, and at the same time he inspires the good in people, whether you agree or disagree. But I suppose the leadership is only a reflection of what society wants, which is not God.
@signify12 We don't need a pope in DC. Listen to the 4 part series on Grace Family Baptist Church's site over Politics, Government, and Biblical Authority. Voddie Baucham and Stephen Bratton do a great job of clearing up a lot of misconceptions. Additionally the White Horse Inn podcast from a week or so ago called A Mormon President?
How many Lies do you think you have told in your life? Have you ever stolen anything, even something small? Have you ever looked at a person with lust? Ever used GOD's name as a curse word? If so, GOD sees you as a Lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. The Guilty will end up in Hell. That's not GOD's will. You broke GOD's laws, but Jesus paid your fine! (IF) you Repent, and trust in Christ alone, GOD will forgive every sin you have ever committed, and grant you Eternal life!
Consider the followers of those who once led and are now forgotten. We follow One who will never be forgotten. We follow the beginning and the end, Jesus Christ, our journey is not in vain.
It's all coming apart. One thing that hit me hard is the atheists/ naturalist claims that our brains are the end result of unconscious, uncaring, indifferent forces that have no purpose beyond survival and we should believe that, but what happens when you question THAT belief? If we're all just dancing to our DNA, why should I expect that to provide me with an accurate view of reality?
@StrumstickJoe "You should be reasd to accept or parry whatever I say, but at the moment you are sounding insecure." Nope, if anything you're sound insecure because you keep avoiding me questions.
"Just know this: I don't believe in magic." Just goes to show you I made my point, when an atheist like yourself doesn't have an answer they resort to mocking.
""ready"" Yes, when will you answer my question? Since you don't believe in God, then IN YOUR OPINION how was the universe created?
2)…Quote the bible in a discussion with me, and you persuading me nothing, it is a poorly-compiled collection of myths.
It is immoral to tell children they are born evil. It is equally immoral to imagine that you can shed your faults and sins by passing them on to someone else – as you might your debts.
Human sacrifice is a pretty grim subject to teach kids, also, isn’t it?
Why don't you just live in peace without all this stuff?
I think I notice you trusting your judgment too(!) I am not “clinging” to my truth as such – to me that would imply desperation; I am just free in my thoughts and judgment, because I don’t have constant reference to an outside party.
I want to suggest something to you sincerely: consider picking up Christopher Hitchen's "God Is Not Great" if you want to know how an articulate person can expose a myth…
… I will investigate your suggestion. If you don’t want to read the book (and he is an awesome writer) then type into Ytub “authors @ Google: Christopher Hitchens”. If you do watch that, understand as you do that I cannot see a flaw in his reasoning. Please give it some time. (You could grant me a few hits on my channel too:-0)
Why would a god want to be an authority? Want constant praise and worship? Create people bad and command them to be good on pain of eternal punishment?
@StrumstickJoe God did not create bad people. According the creation account found in Genesis, God created man "in His own image, in the image of God he created them;" (Gen 1:27) Since according to the Bible God is good, we know that man was originally good. However, when man sinned by disobeying God, man was separated from God for eternity. The only way for man to have a relationship with a perfect God is for that perfect God to sacrifice himself for us, taking our sin upon Himself.
@db1291 1) God did not create anything. The talking snake story in genesis was an allegory about a guy being thrown out of a temple; it has been twisted into a strange and trivial story about an (all-knowing) god setting a test for his “creations”, which they (of course) failed and were therefore punished by the god then making all their (inbred) offspring to be born evil...
@db1291 I must add, by the way, that your statement: "The only way for man to have a relationship with a perfect God is for that perfect God to sacrifice himself for us, taking our sin upon Himself." is really, really worrying... Do you believe that trash?
It is the part of the religious story that I have never, ever seen any sense in.
@StrumstickJoe Well then if you believe that the Bible is just a collection of myths then you have nothing to fear in death. If you are correct and we both die tomorrow, we will both just cease to exist. There is nothing beyond death. However, if the Bible is true and we both die tomorrow then I will go to heaven and you to hell. I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by believing in the Bible and Jesus. By not believing, you have nothing to gain and risk eternal condemnation.
@db1291 Not only is there a great deal of nonsense talked in your post, there is a massive dose of hypocrisy also: you must believe that god doesn't read these, and therefore will not know that you are hedging your bets - or at least only believing because you want to get to heaven. You're right to say there is nothing beyond death - and who would want it any other way? But for sure I'm not going to live my life in constant fear of it. You grovel to your insecure deity... for ever!!?? Yuk!
@StrumstickJoe probably not the only way but definitely the best way He could show His infinite love for us. I'm glad that it bothers you so much , it lets me now that God is wrestling with your heart and not being passive. i mean you are here leaving hella comments on a God filled video, most atheist that are set in there ways won't go out of their way to leave comments for crazy lunatics that worship a guy on a cross. what do you hope to gain from all of this? what ur heart is longing 4 is God
@dline97 I hope to free a few slaves - the ones who read and start to think for themselves, and begin to take responsibility for their lives instead of prostrating themselves before an vindictive and insecure deity.
But mostly I hope to spread the message that religion is the greatest threat to the world, and until we marginalise it, we are heading for the armageddon they desire so much.
@StrumstickJoe i wish for all to think free too.I didn't grow up in a religious household.quick testimony. My mother and i caught my dad cheating on my mother, they got a divorce. i was later enslaved by drugs and sexual morality, on top of that i hated a God that i didn't believe in haha. But Christ freed me from my sin and granted me to worship Him the Creator of this universe.now i hope to spread the message that frees many slaves and warns them that the greatest threat to them is the world
@dline97 The spreaders of religion target children and vulnerable adults.
If you are freed from a bad past, then take the credit yourself. You deserve it.
Don't think that people who don't believe in god "hate him" that is a logic error. We don't hate "him" or anybody else. (Some of us might hate the spread of a plague, but we don't hate the mythological beings.)
@StrumstickJoe i never said I think people who don't believe in God hate Him. i said I hated the God i didn't believe in. and yea religions like to target kids that but the kids grow up and choose to do what they want whether it be God's will or their own. I know hella people who grew up in a church but are now atheist. Gotta remember that before religion was man, and before man was God. vulnerable adults?? u mean like Blaise Pascal, Brian Welch, or Troy Palumalo? these guys had it all. ??
@StrumstickJoe gullible??? C.S Lewis , Anthony Flew, Francisc Collins, Blaise Pascal etc... were anything but gullible. I wish u the best too and I AM FREE. i hope one day you will be too. God bless you much . enjoyed the chat. message me whenever you wish. I would love to here from you again. Peace
@dline97 I go on these channels to (as implied before) promote common sense (and it's good to be treated with politeness) - and also to promote my videos to the cult status they warrant, (Maybe!)
@eisagholi I think he is a pleasant guy with a sensible view, He is quite good in his logical approach to questions of science.
I prefer Christopher Hitchens because he is so articulate and has an amusing, as well as sensible way of dealing with the foolishness of religion.
I also like ZOMGitsCriss on YT (Try "atheist umbrella", of "god is funny", or "lets make it a religion") and I wish to spread the words all these put out in order to make this planet safer.
@StrumstickJoe would you say he does his research before he speaks on a subject, with evidence? Because all I hear from Atheists are that logic and reason come from evidence
@eisagholi "Logic: (n) science of reasoning, proof, thinking or inference" OED
Yes - so it arises from, and is confirmed by, evidence.
Reason (no dictionary definition required, surely?) would also have the requirement of evidence.
There is no evidence for magic, or for: miracles; creation; the kingdom of David; JC; heaven/hell; angels; resurrections, or most of the other stuff recounted in the bible.
And (important) there's no REASON to believe it either.
@StrumstickJoe lol ... why is it when I ask a question, you give me a long response, going on and on about things I'm not asking about ... it was a simple question, do you believe he speak BASED ON evidence and research? Yes OR No. very simple
@StrumstickJoe "Unless you are unsettled by reason." Absolutely not, there is a REASON why I asked.
In his book the God Delusion ( A book read by millions ), he state that some historians are starting to question the existence of Jesus Christ and in an debate with Professor John Lennox, John Lennox asked him, where he got that information from because he could not find one that questioned his existence. And Richard Dawkins starts to ramble like he normally does and throws in there are a …
@StrumstickJoe couple but Jesus is irrelevant. Really? The most recognized person ever to live is irrelevant. Then John asked him again just to name ONE historian, just ONE, but he couldn’t and changes his statement and says that Jesus did exist.
This is the type of people you guys listen to? I don’t follow Christopher Hitchens but I guarantee you if I do I would definitely find flaws in his LOGIC AND THINKING ...
@StrumstickJoe “Now look up my suggestions and begin to learn yourself.”
Lol … let me teach you some things.
I love science; you just assume I don’t, just like many other things you’ve assumed. Did you know science can never be absolute? Look it up.
Until a couple of years ago, Evolutionist/Atheist believed that we evolved from chimps and that was a fact and no one should question it. But did you know that about a year ago, they found a fossil and some scientist thought that we might ...
@StrumstickJoe of came from Lemars, then a couple of months later they found another fossil, now they say that we haven’t evolved from chimps but we have a common ancestor.
Atheist rant on about how they are smarter and the evidence proves this and that, but at the end of the day, you guys have as much FAITH in science as we do in Christ.
Here is another lesson, science proves Jesus’ 1st coming. The scriptures that I was talking about that dated back to 900 BC, talked about events …
@StrumstickJoe that would happen and they did. Why? Because not one historian questions Jesus Christ existence and there are plenty of outside (non-Christian) evidence written about the events that happened.
Here is another lesson, instead of ASSUMING that all Christians have blind faith, with no research are arrogant, dumb hillbillies because you’ve watched Religolous, Hitchens, Dawkins, or the media tells you we are; you should open your eyes.
@StrumstickJoe people with beliefs when they don’t have an answer themselves.
BTW, I did watch the videos and my statement before this one, says it exactly. Instead of asking questions to get answers, she mocks and makes fun of them. Every single question she asked can be answer, and in my culture we have a say which loosely translates to “there is a person who can give answers, but there has to be a person to listen” meaning the person you’re talking to should be willing …
I’m ending this with this question, since you are so much more knowledgeable than I am; Tell me how the universe was created w/ evidence since you say there is no god? ( WITHOUT MOCKING MY BELIEF BECAUSE WE KNOW YOU HAVEN’T ::SARCASM:: ) pretend I’m a non-believer or I’m a believer that wants to be enlightened.
And please don’t give me the cop out answer “You’re right” to seem that you know but you don’t want to say it.
@StrumstickJoe Don't try to get out of answering the question by switching back to Christianity because you don't have an answer to my question. You keep saying there is no God, fine. Then you tell me how the universe was created? NO MOCKING
@StrumstickJoe "Cool it." if you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. It's easy to make fun of others but doesn't settle when they start to question you.
@eisagholi 4)giant. I did not make assumption you do not love science at any time! I did not say I was more knowledgeable than you. If any one of the stories about JC is true, you still haven’t proved divinity. His sayings are inconsistent and bizarre. In constructing myths, prophecy and fulfilment thereof are easy. The number of possible combinations of events obviates any prophecy.
You take any question as mocking. I obeyed your brief, and been briefer than you! Thank you for listening.
@eisagholi 3)information (that is available to all, but which I have chosen to question and refute) that your book is the one. I believe not. Also don’t assume the science lobby is speaking for me. I am not a big bangist.
Chimps, lemurs and hominids are primates, evolved from lines you cannot begin to imagine the length of.
99% of all species have become extinct, including most of the hominids – as a design, that is awful! Your pre-judgment of Hitchens is unforgivable; he is an intellectual
@eisagholi 2)Theory of Relativity; they believe in a thing called a singularity.
All the above believe in a beginning of the universe, the holy bookers think they KNOW how it all started, the others only claim a hypothesis based on science.
In the almost infinite complexity of the continuing universe, it is unknowable to the transient humans how it started. *Or even whether the past is infinite. Humans have difficulty accepting that they are not the centre of all. You, it seems, have privileged
@eisagholi 1)The universe is a continually evolving entity stretching from infinite past* to the future. There are "holy" books, like the torah, the bible, the koran, the book of mormon, and the huge texts of scientology. Believers in these books hold that they know the origin of the earth and mankind’s presence because they are told in the books. Then there are other believers, like Hawking, Hubble, Hoyle, Hitchens, Dawkins, Rad with their texts, like A Brief History of Time, and the
“You take any question as mocking.” Really how many times have you posted things like this:
“Just know this: I don't believe in magic.” … You call that question I consider this mocking “I obeyed your brief, and been briefer than you!” Again really? A little refresher of some of the things you’ve said.
@StrumstickJoe “Now look up my suggestions and begin to learn yourself.” - in other words you don’t know anything, educate yourself. NO?
“Your stories are old and plagarised and cobbled together by primitive people who had no other explanation for the world.” – Of course you’re not mocking, you’re very polite and cosiderate.
@StrumstickJoe “I hope to free a few slaves - the ones who read and start to think for themselves, and begin to take responsibility for their lives instead of prostrating themselves before an vindictive and insecure deity.”
“A cross is an instrument of torture; your belief in the myth of JC is an acceptance of human sacrifice;
@StrumstickJoe the eucharist is pretend cannibalism; to tell children they are born sinful is immoral; to tell them they can absolve their sins by shifting the blame onto a dead palestinian is bizarre, but also immoral.”
Read the definition of mock again and you tell me if you’re still right.
“I did not say I was more knowledgeable than you.” Again read some of your posts above.
@StrumstickJoe I think I made my point there. So back to the topic of the unverise being created? I’ll some it up for you, are you saying that you don’t know?
See here is the problem that lies ahead for atheist, trying to prove that something can come from nothing. No matter what way you look at it, the universe can’t create itself.
As far as evolution, I don’t like to jump from one topic to the next, once we agree on something then I move on.
@StrumstickJoe "Your pre-judgment of Hitchens is unforgivable" Unforgivable? are you serious? All I said was
"I don’t follow Christopher Hitchens but I guarantee you if I do I would definitely find flaws in his LOGIC AND THINKING" ... Yet you continuously have made fun of what we believe to be our savior. Are you kidding me?
@StrumstickJoe “You quote me but you don't answer any of the points.”
I can also say the same thing about you, you avoid answering my questions by changing subjects. The first time that I asked if you received all the answers to your questions about God, would you accept Jesus Christ? This is what you said "I haven't got any questions about god. " From the things you've said prior to that and with that statement means that "I don't care to get the answers
@StrumstickJoe or will I accept them". What's the point of answering any if you're not willing to listen or accept any of it. But I will tell you this once you answer all my question, I will then answer whatever questions you have, if you are willing to listen.
“I can't make fun of a non-existent entity.”
Read your quotes. When you talked about Hitchens you meant is as in that’s disrepectful of me to say he has flaws in his thinking, but yet you are more than willing to be
@StrumstickJoe disrepectful towards Jesus and our beliefs.
“Religion is dangerous nonsense. It leaves trails of blood in its name.”
I will get to this after, remember one topic at a time.
“You have nowhere to go if you put so much faith in something so eminently unproven.” – back to the topic, please keep it yes or no answers. Do you have proof of the universe creating itself from nothing to something? ( Pretend I practice Buddism, so you won’t keep switching subjects )
@StrumstickJoe And on a side note, why do you think I trying to convince you of anything, you saying you're points and I am saying mine. And honestly, I doesn't matter to me if you are convinced of what I say or not because I'm not trying to. It's you're choice to believe whatever you want, I'm just stating facts.
@eisagholi I wouldn't like to see your ramblings if you WERE trying to convince somebody of something!
I have told you all I want to. If all you have to offer is continued picking up of non-existent insults, then you are wasting your time. I did think for a while that you were thoughtful: your rather narrow and insistent concentration on one question did make me think. But now it's clear that you can't see anything of what I said, and you are determined to attack.
@StrumstickJoe “I did think for a while that you were thoughtful: your rather narrow and insistent concentration on one question did make me think. But now it's clear that you can't see anything of what I said, and you are determined to attack.”
If you feel that I’m attacking you, then I appologize. That’s not my intention, and honestly, I feel the same way with your posts. It feels as if you are deliberatly trying to be disrespectful and insulting towards me and my beliefs.
@StrumstickJoe As far as me insisting on that one question, you would have to agree that it’s a VERY IMPORTANT question that we need to think of. Also, I was going somewhere with this, along with other questions like this.
Again, if you felt attacking I appologize. I just feel that even atheist should question thing that they believe, and not because someone told them that it’s true, and I’m not saying that you are one of those people.
@StrumstickJoe move on? where? to rot in the dirt you stand on? thats ultimately where we are going if there is no heaven right? i can't "imagine" there being no heaven just like i can't imagine not being born, its reality bro. why are you running from the freedom of the Gospel?
@dline97 "move on? where? to rot in the dirt you stand on? thats ultimately where we are going if there is no heaven right?"
Yes.
You put it in as unpleasant a way as you can, but yes.
Do you understand why heaven would be atrocious to anybody who truly contemplated it?
What is it? - no day or night, no substance, no mischievousness, no discussion, no spring or autumn. Only endless prostration and subservience to an god who needs your face on the ground and your arse in the air.
@StrumstickJoe all wrong bro. read ur Bible. imagine a place where there is no more tears, no more pain , and you will see Jesus face to face. ETERNAL JOY
@StrumstickJoe saw the video,check out my comment on it,u would love it. but anyways i hope you know that our faith is not blind. We can all agree that there was a man named Yeshua (Jesus) of nazareth who was crucified under pontius pilate.also check out the prophesies that the bible has predicted not only on the Messiah(Yeshua) but on other major events such like the reign of king Alexander and the fall of his empire.while you at it check out your sin.blind faith is dangerous , no bueno
@StrumstickJoe God did not create bad people. According the creation account found in Genesis, God created man "in His own image, in the image of God he created them;" (Gen 1:27) Since according to the Bible God is good, we know that man was originally good. However, when man sinned by disobeying God, man was separated from God for eternity. The only way for man to have a relationship with a perfect God is for that perfect God to sacrifice himself for us, taking our sin upon Himself.
The question you posed implied that I need an authority to inform me what is an immoral act; I believe that I can decide independently that it is immoral to suggest that one might pass one’s sins or faults onto another person (as one might pass on, say a financial debt). In fact, christians base their whole belief system on that one premise. I think it is contrived interpretation of a myth – and, I repeat, immoral…
@StrumstickJoe You may not think you submit to an authority, but we all do. In your case you are the ultimate authority of right and wrong. I'm not sure how long you have been alive, but you are putting a whole lot of faith into your own judgement for only being on the planet less than a century (but probably less than half a century).
@StrumstickJoe It seems to me that the question is not so much whether or not one can behave morally without a God, but whether an objective, independent morality can exist without a God. From an atheistic perspective, morality is simply the by product of socio-biological conditioning; a purely human construct. There is not real truth value associated with moral precepts. It logically follows that moral progress doesn't exist, only moral difference.
@jmkora … well, then they wouldn’t have got that far; they would have died in their caves (as the Neanderthals and many other branches of “homo” did.) Lower animals have species-preserving traits, credit us with a few. 99% of all species that have evolved have become extinct (some creation, eh?) Life is the only truth.
Please look at “authors @ Google: Christopher Hitchens” on YT. He is so much more articulate than I. Thanks for your considered reply.
@jmkora Gaia is a hypothesis that might have some practical applications - but its premise of self-regulation seems to imply a "reason" & attempt to negate the fact the planet is unstable and is headed for destruction.
No. My implication is that evolution is random and aimless - has no reason nor destination, and I am ridiculing the religious claims that there is a prime cause and a celestial Kim Il-sung watching us for eternity. I don't need to "prove" atheism, it is not a belief system.
@jmkora Read & watched, but not listened. What an inversion of the fact! This silly religious video, and tens of thousands of others - and religion itself - are made of theatrical appeal to emotion! (Witness all the soft-focus airbrushed imagery of the American religious mindset) You will never see the irony of calling CH emotive - so inaccurate that it must be deliberately so. Your 4 points are trivially put, but 3/4 OKish. No.3) is assumes the existence of a god - which CH knows is false.
@StrumstickJoe You have raised some interesting points. It would seem to me however, that atheism fails to satisfy, both existentially and empirically. Hitchens' arguments do not attempt to falsify theism; he only tries to demonstrate how undesirable it is. This is not logical argumentation. Your claim that you "don't need to prove atheism" is very much ill-conceived. Atheism is not a lack of belief in God; rather it is the ACTIVE belief in the LACK of God. It is a claim, and requires defense.
@jmkora It only seems to you that it fails to satisfy. I’m not really into philosophy and its language, but I would say that the actions and thoughts of an atheist are based on observation and experiment, and an anti-intellectual view that we are free and responsible and don’t need an outside cause.
Atheism literally means “without god”, I only have to defend the view if the god-people start coming in with evidence that seems strong. it's not happened yet. You should think yourself free.
@jmkora It seems to me that the question is whether or not one can behave morally. I think I can, and millions of others can also; no god needed. My examples of (paticularly christian) immorality below remain undicussed. I didn’t suggest morality is a human construct, and wouldn’t. But, as Hitchens says, if the human race didn’t know thou shalt not kill by that time Moses appeared with the slabs …
@StrumstickJoe "It seems to me that the question is whether or not one can behave morally. I think I can, and millions of others can also; no god needed." There are plenty of Atheists who are moral and I applaud them. The question becomes is there a logical reason for this? Evolution is red in tooth and nail (I think thats how the saying goes). Its dog-eat-dog. A relative moral framework is eventually meaningless. For example, some cultures feed their neighbors, others eat them. Which is moral?
@davidml1023 1)..“The question becomes is there a logical reason for this?” That doesn’t seem to matter to me, I only understand my own logic and morality – which is all I need unless I’m displaced my someone else’s extreme immorality. “Morality needs a higher authority to give it meaning” I don’t see that, you haven’t supported this statement.
@StrumstickJoe "you haven’t supported this statement". Forgive me. 500 characters is bogus. Think of this argument, "moral people do A, B, and C. I do A, B, and C. Therefore I'm moral." This is the moral framework most follow. Ex. moral people help others, I help others, therefore I'm moral. My question, is there a logical reason why your list of A, B, and C is better than others? If so how? Does your system reflect the value of people and their rights? If so why? What gives people value/worth?
@StrumstickJoe "The question you posed implied that I need an authority to inform me what is an immoral act". I'm not sure if this has been stated. If so I apologize. Morality needs a higher authority to give it meaning or else it becomes relative to the individual and falls apart entirely. For example, Hitler believed he was moral for implementing his final solution. Its like currency. What gives money value? Gold? Why? Because its rare? People give value to gold. God gives value to Morality.
@davidml1023 3)..Hitler, BTW had his birthday celebrated by the church every year – and they never excommunicated him. I think most people can see that he was immoral.
“God gives value..” then my morality has no value.
You are more polite than the average christian debater.
@StrumstickJoe 3)"Hitler, BTW had his birthday celebrated by the church" Which is why I only follow Jesus.
"'God gives value..' then my morality has no value." Thats my basic premise. If you follow the natural outworking of your philosophy, this would have to be your conclusion. Read Friedrich Nietzsche. He coined the phrase God is dead. He came to some logical conclusions that eventually inspired the holocaust. He believed it was moral to get rid of lower humans to give rise to the 'superman'.
@davidml1023 3)..Death is the very centrepiece of religious thinking – and the fear of death is probably the prime cause for it.
“moral people do A, B, and C. I do A, B, and C. Therefore I'm moral.” – this is circular. And many of your questions insult the idea that millions of people all over the world, and throughout a 250,000 yr history have had much worth without having religion.
YT Authors @ google Christopher Hitchens – watch it.
@StrumstickJoe Its not circular. People feel they are moral if they follow certain ethical guidelines whether its based on religion or societal needs. Laws are built around those ethical guidelines to keep order. How is one set of guidelines better than others? And can you defend it? Ex. Communism is moral because its better for the societal whole VS Anarchy is moral because its better for the individual VS Capitalism... Whats the moral precedence? Your way? Relative ethics is no ethics.
@davidml1023 1).. I think my morality has value – that’s my point. You seem to be over-concerned about systems and logical outcomes – much as Nietzsche was – whereas I am saying the world is as it is, we can improve our social habits because we hve the brain power, but we get along with it. We have come a long way by discovering we shouldn’t kill each other at random. I am not scared of death and total oblivion; that would be like being scared of life…
@StrumstickJoe 1) The problem is that ethics/morality IS a philosophical system and has logical outcomes. We really haven't come a long way from killing each other (holocaust). The A,B, and C I mentioned before is ethics. Morality is doing them (at least thats how i define them -- might be different). If more then half of the world thinks its good to get rid of undesirables (be it the unborn or a certain nationality) does that make it right? How can you argue one code of ethics over another?
@StrumstickJoe 1b) Let me give you an example. Was Hitler immoral to kill 6 million Jews? If so why? The world was as it was back then. In order to answer that question, we have to answer another question first, do people have value where it is wrong to kill them? I believe you'd say yes. So then who gives people value? Society? The German society thought it was ok (logical outcomes). Were they wrong? Who are you to say theyre wrong? BTW, the Germans were very smart. Brains =/= Morals
@StrumstickJoe My overall point is this... There is no one Atheistic frame of mind. Atheists have invented several types of humanism as their vessel of choice for ethics. For example, egocentric humanism says whatever makes you feel good is moral (those like Hefner fit) while Marxist humanism says whatever is good for the whole is moral. Evolutionary humanism (Nietzsche falls into this one) is the scariest -- eliminate the poor quality genes to enhance the human race. Which should I believe in?
@davidml1023 3).. Certainly not one who was creator, invigilator, wrathful judge and executioner. There is no evidence for such a being – and in my experience of arguing of the point nobody has produced evidence outside the bible. So we need to establish individual points. My brain tells me there is no magic; and the precarious situation we are in tells me that there was no design. Thanks for the discussion, it has been thought-provoking. Now hit my vids – cos I need hits!
@davidml1023 2)..We have evolved a relatively good brain – good enough to consider moral consequences – but will it ever be good enough to find a moral “stationary point” from which to make absolute decisions?
Those of us who care about the world of men each feel that at least we have some kind of judging point; but some of us can’t understand why you would need an outside force to give us that.
@davidml1023 1)..The world we stand on is spinning very fast and orbiting a star in a galaxy that is moving at high speed away from most others (unfortunately the Andromeda galaxy is moving towards our course, and we will collide – but that’s for the future). There is no stationary point for us to take reference from if we want to measure space or time in an absolute way.
@StrumstickJoe 2) "A god would surely have created a world of vegetarians with no need to kill?" Without going too off topic, yes. God created a world of vegetarians. Death was never the original plan. but i digress.
"would you not know the answer without your god?" If I were not a Christian, I would have to come up with a moral framework that supported my presupposition/agenda. I might think, "If there is no God, then only material exists(Carl Sagan) and not fanciful ideas as absolute morals.
@davidml1023 2)… Virtually every animal is eaten by another, either chased down, or after death; god didn’t create a world of vegetarians, so I don’t know where you got that from! (Actually, he didn’t create anything, did he? Can you understand that we don’t need him because he is a figment of Iron Age imagination?)
@StrumstickJoe you miss the point. Not passing on debt. Willing taking debt. You got students? car payments? mortgage? rent? you wouldn't accept someone to pay for that? Then lets that take further... you have a charge on your account and the wage is eternal damnation??? Its immoral for someone to pay the penalty so that you can be saved from the consequences? I'm sorry that you believe in such a wacked out morality system my friend.
@dline97 Christians tell the lie to children that they are born sinful, then compound this with the story that they may have their sins absolved by someone else. It is immoral to think this could be so. Your reason for living morally is based on the reward of heaven if you do, or the punishment of hell if you don’t – you are not moral under those circumstances. Human sacrifice, genital mutilation, cannibalism, threats of hell - all immoral!
@StrumstickJoe Interesting enough, this sermon was posted on oneplace.com a couple of days ago.
Here is the full sermon, listen to it if you'd like, it you don't that's fine too. Really up to you. If I were you one question I would ask myself is "If someone were to give me all the answer to the questions I had about God, will I accept Jesus Christ?" and if the answer is no, then this back forth argument/discussion whatever you guys want to call it, is useless.
@eisagholi I haven't got any questions about god. The purpose of my posts is to try (in a small way) to leave the world a better place than I found it.
You know I think religion immoral - but the worst thing is, they believe that this life is not the only one, and thereby devalue it.
That is why religious people kill and die for their faith.
If we keep on slugging, maybe more and more will join us and see the reality of the life we have.
@StrumstickJoe By no means am I trying to convert you or accept jesus, etc.
First, you are the one posting on a SERMON trying to convince people that religion is immoral, if anything you're pushing your view on others.
Second, to saying because of religion alot of people of died is just ignorance. Are you forgetting Hilter, Stalin, and the rest of communist leaders or dictators throughout history. Most didn't believe in God, because they considered themselves to be God.
And I call him the future king of planet earth.
lukose2007 1 week ago
Great video
adamjohnston85 1 week ago
Does anyone know where the conversation between Lazarus and Colugia comes from?
cfrylan 2 weeks ago
@cfrylan Caligula* He is referring to the Roman Empire persecuting Christians in the early church. Caligula is one of the emperors who persecuted Christians most ruthlessly. Its possible Caligula came to power while Lazarus still lived after being raised by Jesus.
djking2d 2 weeks ago
@cfrylan its from a play LAZARUS LAUGHED, by Eugene O'Neill
tical99 2 weeks ago
greatly appreciated this... would like to see more
watchmansvigil 2 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
Superb speech about Jesus.
lukose2007 3 weeks ago
One Day . . . Sooooon. The Last Seven are soon upon us all. Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil. Isaiah 5:20 Blessed are you that you hear and see. Matthew 13:13
cundaskies 3 weeks ago
DEATH IS DEAD SUCKERSS!!!! CHRIST LIVES
Geeeayy 3 weeks ago 2
really informative and interesting
alexasmithy 1 month ago
Awesome video. Ravi is a man of wisdom.
Truth77Absolute 1 month ago
Neph is a FAT CUNT
BronyEditor 1 month ago
fuck neph
BronyEditor 1 month ago
At 2:39 the only two people alive are Obama and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. All the others were assasinated or died.
TheClubMantra 1 month ago
WOW
cherieglam 1 month ago
Amen.
MsJoy4ever 1 month ago
Where can I get a copy of that Jesus picture at the endish part? I'd like to find a pretty high quality version if possible.
theshakoone 1 month ago
Absolutely awesome video!
NephilimFree 1 month ago
@NephilimFree yeah, that was inspirational.
xCrucifyTheFleshx 1 month ago
Ahhh, hahah. This is so pure.
evenshteven 1 month ago
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GodsAppointed1 1 month ago
why doesn't he run for president? every speech I have seen him give every thing I have read he has written, has given the most candid logical answer, and at the same time he inspires the good in people, whether you agree or disagree. But I suppose the leadership is only a reflection of what society wants, which is not God.
signify12 1 month ago 3
@signify12 We don't need a pope in DC. Listen to the 4 part series on Grace Family Baptist Church's site over Politics, Government, and Biblical Authority. Voddie Baucham and Stephen Bratton do a great job of clearing up a lot of misconceptions. Additionally the White Horse Inn podcast from a week or so ago called A Mormon President?
allasloss 1 month ago
@allasloss White Horse Inn with Dr. Michael Horton: A Mormon President
Sunday, January 01, 2012
w w w(dot)one place(dot)com ministries white horse inn player a mormon president 248504(dot)h t m l
Brucev7 1 month ago
I'm wondering which life is the real one. This life or the life which Jesus have spoken to us? What do you think about?
Crist999hope 1 month ago
@Crist999hope Define Life? Eternal is in Christ alone. By Grace alone, in Faith alone. Joh 14:6
Brucev7 1 month ago
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How many Lies do you think you have told in your life? Have you ever stolen anything, even something small? Have you ever looked at a person with lust? Ever used GOD's name as a curse word? If so, GOD sees you as a Lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. The Guilty will end up in Hell. That's not GOD's will. You broke GOD's laws, but Jesus paid your fine! (IF) you Repent, and trust in Christ alone, GOD will forgive every sin you have ever committed, and grant you Eternal life!
EXALTEDDIRT 1 month ago
excellent video
promoll 2 months ago
thx for posting! so encouraging!!
24Revelation 2 months ago
I am hardly religious but this was a pretty powerful 4 and a half minutes.
OnThe23rd 3 months ago 3
@OnThe23rd You should not be concerned with "being religious." Find God. Through His Son Jesus Christ, salvation is found, by God's Grace. Joh 14:6
Brucev7 1 month ago
@Brucev7 I think so too.
Crist999hope 1 month ago
I think of this man as the greats Like King Cyrus AND anothers and what we to seek our Father !!
Rooshic 3 months ago
I love atheists.
BalancedAbner 3 months ago
Consider the followers of those who once led and are now forgotten. We follow One who will never be forgotten. We follow the beginning and the end, Jesus Christ, our journey is not in vain.
TheEskatos 3 months ago 15
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PSALM 49 : 17 - 18
LASS ES DICH NICHT ANFECHTEN WENN EINER REICH WIRD WEN DIE HERLICHKEIT SEINES HAUSES GROS WIRD DENN ER WIRD NICHTS BEI SEINEM STERBEN MITNEHMEN.
EstherBabylon 3 months ago
3:21 who knows what language that is and what is the translation
tical99 4 months ago
@tical99 i would say greek thats in the new testament and it translates to what Ravi said :)
GodLovesUs100 4 months ago
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I've watched this video about twenty times and I get something new out of it each time. I have no greater praise for a video.
admorell01 4 months ago
Comment removed
admorell01 4 months ago
This is amazing
0rganization 4 months ago 2
5 People are lying to themselves =]
ALEXEVERS70 4 months ago 6
@ALEXEVERS70
Absolutely!
1988TheHitman 3 months ago
....Ravi Zacharias...amazing man !...Greatings from Europe-Romania !God blees you for your work....!
Fighter7ful 4 months ago in playlist Liked
I logged in just to like this video.. This is one of, if not the best sermon jam compilations I have seen!
genuineaussie 4 months ago
It's all coming apart. One thing that hit me hard is the atheists/ naturalist claims that our brains are the end result of unconscious, uncaring, indifferent forces that have no purpose beyond survival and we should believe that, but what happens when you question THAT belief? If we're all just dancing to our DNA, why should I expect that to provide me with an accurate view of reality?
oneleggedspider 5 months ago
SUPER!! Ravi Zacharias is simply the best Apologist of our time.
machandxb 5 months ago
Perfect song choice. Great matching with the pictures.
Be encouraged to make more sermon jams. And Ravi is awesome, that probably played a small part.
But it's best because it gives glory to Christ. :)
dougmoerhoffman 5 months ago
No need for my opinion here, you just heard the truth.
abbeyteachesuballet 5 months ago
This is one of the most powerful sermon Jams I have seen thus far.
GenerationY1000 5 months ago
im tearing right now.....i am so humbled
MyColdfusion 6 months ago
good one!! keep up the good work! god bless you!!
Thuva44 8 months ago 2
When or if you get your answer to my question: "Tell me how the universe was created w/ evidence since you say there is no god?"
You let me know, take you time.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi You are a very strict taskmaster! You are pre-empting my reply.
You should be reasd to accept or parry whatever I say, but at the moment you are sounding insecure.
Cool it.
Just know this: I don't believe in magic.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "You should be reasd to accept or parry whatever I say, but at the moment you are sounding insecure." Nope, if anything you're sound insecure because you keep avoiding me questions.
"Just know this: I don't believe in magic." Just goes to show you I made my point, when an atheist like yourself doesn't have an answer they resort to mocking.
""ready"" Yes, when will you answer my question? Since you don't believe in God, then IN YOUR OPINION how was the universe created?
eisagholi 8 months ago
@allasloss awesome mix, keep up the good work.
eisagholi 8 months ago
got to love the angry atheists hahahaha keep hating you cant shut down truth
AaronMReeves 8 months ago
@AaronMReeves Have you no punctuation marks on your keyboard?
I'm not angry with you, so you can stop worrying.
I'm only angry when ignorant belief in Iron Age myths leads to people killing and believing that there's a better life than this.
Otherwise, I'm cool enough (look at my vids)
I don't hate anything, either. Not even you.
Peace go with you.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
PLEASE KEEP MAKING MORE SERMON JAMS !!!!! This one was hella sik keep it up and may God bless you much
dline97 8 months ago 9
@dline97 thank you. all glory to God. hoping to have a new one up soon.
allasloss 8 months ago
@allasloss : Please what's the title of the message (the Lazarus section)? and by the way its really a brilliant one Sir. God bless you greatly!
jriebelle 4 months ago
@dline97 NO DOUBT!!!!!!!!! I love these sermon jams, I have been brough to tears numerous times they are sooo powerfukl
Freethinkin14 8 months ago
I don't know why you would follow a god who kills innocent children.......
charmander4533 10 months ago
@charmander4533 u act like innocent children don't go to heaven.
dline97 8 months ago
2)…Quote the bible in a discussion with me, and you persuading me nothing, it is a poorly-compiled collection of myths.
It is immoral to tell children they are born evil. It is equally immoral to imagine that you can shed your faults and sins by passing them on to someone else – as you might your debts.
Human sacrifice is a pretty grim subject to teach kids, also, isn’t it?
Why don't you just live in peace without all this stuff?
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
I think I notice you trusting your judgment too(!) I am not “clinging” to my truth as such – to me that would imply desperation; I am just free in my thoughts and judgment, because I don’t have constant reference to an outside party.
I want to suggest something to you sincerely: consider picking up Christopher Hitchen's "God Is Not Great" if you want to know how an articulate person can expose a myth…
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
… I will investigate your suggestion. If you don’t want to read the book (and he is an awesome writer) then type into Ytub “authors @ Google: Christopher Hitchens”. If you do watch that, understand as you do that I cannot see a flaw in his reasoning. Please give it some time. (You could grant me a few hits on my channel too:-0)
Why would a god want to be an authority? Want constant praise and worship? Create people bad and command them to be good on pain of eternal punishment?
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe God did not create bad people. According the creation account found in Genesis, God created man "in His own image, in the image of God he created them;" (Gen 1:27) Since according to the Bible God is good, we know that man was originally good. However, when man sinned by disobeying God, man was separated from God for eternity. The only way for man to have a relationship with a perfect God is for that perfect God to sacrifice himself for us, taking our sin upon Himself.
db1291 10 months ago
@db1291 1) God did not create anything. The talking snake story in genesis was an allegory about a guy being thrown out of a temple; it has been twisted into a strange and trivial story about an (all-knowing) god setting a test for his “creations”, which they (of course) failed and were therefore punished by the god then making all their (inbred) offspring to be born evil...
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@db1291 I must add, by the way, that your statement: "The only way for man to have a relationship with a perfect God is for that perfect God to sacrifice himself for us, taking our sin upon Himself." is really, really worrying... Do you believe that trash?
It is the part of the religious story that I have never, ever seen any sense in.
Talk about contrived.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Well then if you believe that the Bible is just a collection of myths then you have nothing to fear in death. If you are correct and we both die tomorrow, we will both just cease to exist. There is nothing beyond death. However, if the Bible is true and we both die tomorrow then I will go to heaven and you to hell. I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by believing in the Bible and Jesus. By not believing, you have nothing to gain and risk eternal condemnation.
db1291 10 months ago
@db1291 Not only is there a great deal of nonsense talked in your post, there is a massive dose of hypocrisy also: you must believe that god doesn't read these, and therefore will not know that you are hedging your bets - or at least only believing because you want to get to heaven. You're right to say there is nothing beyond death - and who would want it any other way? But for sure I'm not going to live my life in constant fear of it. You grovel to your insecure deity... for ever!!?? Yuk!
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe probably not the only way but definitely the best way He could show His infinite love for us. I'm glad that it bothers you so much , it lets me now that God is wrestling with your heart and not being passive. i mean you are here leaving hella comments on a God filled video, most atheist that are set in there ways won't go out of their way to leave comments for crazy lunatics that worship a guy on a cross. what do you hope to gain from all of this? what ur heart is longing 4 is God
dline97 8 months ago
@dline97 I hope to free a few slaves - the ones who read and start to think for themselves, and begin to take responsibility for their lives instead of prostrating themselves before an vindictive and insecure deity.
But mostly I hope to spread the message that religion is the greatest threat to the world, and until we marginalise it, we are heading for the armageddon they desire so much.
Peace and clarity.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe i wish for all to think free too.I didn't grow up in a religious household.quick testimony. My mother and i caught my dad cheating on my mother, they got a divorce. i was later enslaved by drugs and sexual morality, on top of that i hated a God that i didn't believe in haha. But Christ freed me from my sin and granted me to worship Him the Creator of this universe.now i hope to spread the message that frees many slaves and warns them that the greatest threat to them is the world
dline97 8 months ago
@dline97 The spreaders of religion target children and vulnerable adults.
If you are freed from a bad past, then take the credit yourself. You deserve it.
Don't think that people who don't believe in god "hate him" that is a logic error. We don't hate "him" or anybody else. (Some of us might hate the spread of a plague, but we don't hate the mythological beings.)
Have you seen the vid?
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe i never said I think people who don't believe in God hate Him. i said I hated the God i didn't believe in. and yea religions like to target kids that but the kids grow up and choose to do what they want whether it be God's will or their own. I know hella people who grew up in a church but are now atheist. Gotta remember that before religion was man, and before man was God. vulnerable adults?? u mean like Blaise Pascal, Brian Welch, or Troy Palumalo? these guys had it all. ??
dline97 8 months ago
@dline97 Yes. Vulnerable adults who had lots of money and clean lives, as well as the ones who had it hard.
Maybe I should have added "gullible".
You're committed.
That's your choice.
I've done all I can.
I wish you something good and liberating and wonderful some day.
It won't be soon, because you're under a bad influence. But one day you night see the way out.
All the best.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe gullible??? C.S Lewis , Anthony Flew, Francisc Collins, Blaise Pascal etc... were anything but gullible. I wish u the best too and I AM FREE. i hope one day you will be too. God bless you much . enjoyed the chat. message me whenever you wish. I would love to here from you again. Peace
dline97 8 months ago
@dline97 I go on these channels to (as implied before) promote common sense (and it's good to be treated with politeness) - and also to promote my videos to the cult status they warrant, (Maybe!)
Peace and a clear mind.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe what do you think of Richard Dawkins?
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi I think he is a pleasant guy with a sensible view, He is quite good in his logical approach to questions of science.
I prefer Christopher Hitchens because he is so articulate and has an amusing, as well as sensible way of dealing with the foolishness of religion.
I also like ZOMGitsCriss on YT (Try "atheist umbrella", of "god is funny", or "lets make it a religion") and I wish to spread the words all these put out in order to make this planet safer.
Thanks for asking.
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe would you say he does his research before he speaks on a subject, with evidence? Because all I hear from Atheists are that logic and reason come from evidence
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi "Logic: (n) science of reasoning, proof, thinking or inference" OED
Yes - so it arises from, and is confirmed by, evidence.
Reason (no dictionary definition required, surely?) would also have the requirement of evidence.
There is no evidence for magic, or for: miracles; creation; the kingdom of David; JC; heaven/hell; angels; resurrections, or most of the other stuff recounted in the bible.
And (important) there's no REASON to believe it either.
Peace on earth; that's all.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe lol ... why is it when I ask a question, you give me a long response, going on and on about things I'm not asking about ... it was a simple question, do you believe he speak BASED ON evidence and research? Yes OR No. very simple
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi YES. He does.
You don't.
Now look up my suggestions and begin to learn yourself.
Unless you are unsettled by reason.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "Unless you are unsettled by reason." Absolutely not, there is a REASON why I asked.
In his book the God Delusion ( A book read by millions ), he state that some historians are starting to question the existence of Jesus Christ and in an debate with Professor John Lennox, John Lennox asked him, where he got that information from because he could not find one that questioned his existence. And Richard Dawkins starts to ramble like he normally does and throws in there are a …
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe couple but Jesus is irrelevant. Really? The most recognized person ever to live is irrelevant. Then John asked him again just to name ONE historian, just ONE, but he couldn’t and changes his statement and says that Jesus did exist.
This is the type of people you guys listen to? I don’t follow Christopher Hitchens but I guarantee you if I do I would definitely find flaws in his LOGIC AND THINKING ...
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe “Now look up my suggestions and begin to learn yourself.”
Lol … let me teach you some things.
I love science; you just assume I don’t, just like many other things you’ve assumed. Did you know science can never be absolute? Look it up.
Until a couple of years ago, Evolutionist/Atheist believed that we evolved from chimps and that was a fact and no one should question it. But did you know that about a year ago, they found a fossil and some scientist thought that we might ...
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe of came from Lemars, then a couple of months later they found another fossil, now they say that we haven’t evolved from chimps but we have a common ancestor.
Atheist rant on about how they are smarter and the evidence proves this and that, but at the end of the day, you guys have as much FAITH in science as we do in Christ.
Here is another lesson, science proves Jesus’ 1st coming. The scriptures that I was talking about that dated back to 900 BC, talked about events …
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe that would happen and they did. Why? Because not one historian questions Jesus Christ existence and there are plenty of outside (non-Christian) evidence written about the events that happened.
Here is another lesson, instead of ASSUMING that all Christians have blind faith, with no research are arrogant, dumb hillbillies because you’ve watched Religolous, Hitchens, Dawkins, or the media tells you we are; you should open your eyes.
What Atheists do is mock and ridicule …
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe people with beliefs when they don’t have an answer themselves.
BTW, I did watch the videos and my statement before this one, says it exactly. Instead of asking questions to get answers, she mocks and makes fun of them. Every single question she asked can be answer, and in my culture we have a say which loosely translates to “there is a person who can give answers, but there has to be a person to listen” meaning the person you’re talking to should be willing …
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe to listen but they are posing questions.
I’m ending this with this question, since you are so much more knowledgeable than I am; Tell me how the universe was created w/ evidence since you say there is no god? ( WITHOUT MOCKING MY BELIEF BECAUSE WE KNOW YOU HAVEN’T ::SARCASM:: ) pretend I’m a non-believer or I’m a believer that wants to be enlightened.
And please don’t give me the cop out answer “You’re right” to seem that you know but you don’t want to say it.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi Thank you genuinely for your considered response. It has flaws, just like Dawkins' had.
It was very long for someone who told me to keep it short ;-0
And I will reply.
I have other things to do at the moment.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Don't try to get out of answering the question by switching back to Christianity because you don't have an answer to my question. You keep saying there is no God, fine. Then you tell me how the universe was created? NO MOCKING
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi "ready"
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "Cool it." if you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. It's easy to make fun of others but doesn't settle when they start to question you.
You're in the hot sit now.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi 4)giant. I did not make assumption you do not love science at any time! I did not say I was more knowledgeable than you. If any one of the stories about JC is true, you still haven’t proved divinity. His sayings are inconsistent and bizarre. In constructing myths, prophecy and fulfilment thereof are easy. The number of possible combinations of events obviates any prophecy.
You take any question as mocking. I obeyed your brief, and been briefer than you! Thank you for listening.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@eisagholi 3)information (that is available to all, but which I have chosen to question and refute) that your book is the one. I believe not. Also don’t assume the science lobby is speaking for me. I am not a big bangist.
Chimps, lemurs and hominids are primates, evolved from lines you cannot begin to imagine the length of.
99% of all species have become extinct, including most of the hominids – as a design, that is awful! Your pre-judgment of Hitchens is unforgivable; he is an intellectual
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@eisagholi 2)Theory of Relativity; they believe in a thing called a singularity.
All the above believe in a beginning of the universe, the holy bookers think they KNOW how it all started, the others only claim a hypothesis based on science.
In the almost infinite complexity of the continuing universe, it is unknowable to the transient humans how it started. *Or even whether the past is infinite. Humans have difficulty accepting that they are not the centre of all. You, it seems, have privileged
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@eisagholi 1)The universe is a continually evolving entity stretching from infinite past* to the future. There are "holy" books, like the torah, the bible, the koran, the book of mormon, and the huge texts of scientology. Believers in these books hold that they know the origin of the earth and mankind’s presence because they are told in the books. Then there are other believers, like Hawking, Hubble, Hoyle, Hitchens, Dawkins, Rad with their texts, like A Brief History of Time, and the
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Definition of MOCK
1: to treat with contempt or ridicule
2: to disappoint the hopes of
“You take any question as mocking.” Really how many times have you posted things like this:
“Just know this: I don't believe in magic.” … You call that question I consider this mocking “I obeyed your brief, and been briefer than you!” Again really? A little refresher of some of the things you’ve said.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe “Now look up my suggestions and begin to learn yourself.” - in other words you don’t know anything, educate yourself. NO?
“Your stories are old and plagarised and cobbled together by primitive people who had no other explanation for the world.” – Of course you’re not mocking, you’re very polite and cosiderate.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe “I hope to free a few slaves - the ones who read and start to think for themselves, and begin to take responsibility for their lives instead of prostrating themselves before an vindictive and insecure deity.”
“A cross is an instrument of torture; your belief in the myth of JC is an acceptance of human sacrifice;
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe the eucharist is pretend cannibalism; to tell children they are born sinful is immoral; to tell them they can absolve their sins by shifting the blame onto a dead palestinian is bizarre, but also immoral.”
Read the definition of mock again and you tell me if you’re still right.
“I did not say I was more knowledgeable than you.” Again read some of your posts above.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe I think I made my point there. So back to the topic of the unverise being created? I’ll some it up for you, are you saying that you don’t know?
See here is the problem that lies ahead for atheist, trying to prove that something can come from nothing. No matter what way you look at it, the universe can’t create itself.
As far as evolution, I don’t like to jump from one topic to the next, once we agree on something then I move on.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe So again, so what you’re saying is that the universe created itself from nothing into something but you don’t have any proof?
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "Your pre-judgment of Hitchens is unforgivable" Unforgivable? are you serious? All I said was
"I don’t follow Christopher Hitchens but I guarantee you if I do I would definitely find flaws in his LOGIC AND THINKING" ... Yet you continuously have made fun of what we believe to be our savior. Are you kidding me?
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi I can't make fun of a non-existent entity.
You quote me but you don't answer any of the points.
Religion is dangerous nonsense. It leaves trails of blood in its name.
We will be better off without it; we won't be saved until we shed it.
I thank you for making me think in this debate, but I find your over-sensitivity unconvincing.
You have nowhere to go if you put so much faith in something so eminently unproven.
You can keep going if you want. I will consider any new evidence. Peace
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe “You quote me but you don't answer any of the points.”
I can also say the same thing about you, you avoid answering my questions by changing subjects. The first time that I asked if you received all the answers to your questions about God, would you accept Jesus Christ? This is what you said "I haven't got any questions about god. " From the things you've said prior to that and with that statement means that "I don't care to get the answers
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe or will I accept them". What's the point of answering any if you're not willing to listen or accept any of it. But I will tell you this once you answer all my question, I will then answer whatever questions you have, if you are willing to listen.
“I can't make fun of a non-existent entity.”
Read your quotes. When you talked about Hitchens you meant is as in that’s disrepectful of me to say he has flaws in his thinking, but yet you are more than willing to be
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe disrepectful towards Jesus and our beliefs.
“Religion is dangerous nonsense. It leaves trails of blood in its name.”
I will get to this after, remember one topic at a time.
“You have nowhere to go if you put so much faith in something so eminently unproven.” – back to the topic, please keep it yes or no answers. Do you have proof of the universe creating itself from nothing to something? ( Pretend I practice Buddism, so you won’t keep switching subjects )
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe And on a side note, why do you think I trying to convince you of anything, you saying you're points and I am saying mine. And honestly, I doesn't matter to me if you are convinced of what I say or not because I'm not trying to. It's you're choice to believe whatever you want, I'm just stating facts.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi I wouldn't like to see your ramblings if you WERE trying to convince somebody of something!
I have told you all I want to. If all you have to offer is continued picking up of non-existent insults, then you are wasting your time. I did think for a while that you were thoughtful: your rather narrow and insistent concentration on one question did make me think. But now it's clear that you can't see anything of what I said, and you are determined to attack.
Make your life a good one.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe “I did think for a while that you were thoughtful: your rather narrow and insistent concentration on one question did make me think. But now it's clear that you can't see anything of what I said, and you are determined to attack.”
If you feel that I’m attacking you, then I appologize. That’s not my intention, and honestly, I feel the same way with your posts. It feels as if you are deliberatly trying to be disrespectful and insulting towards me and my beliefs.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe As far as me insisting on that one question, you would have to agree that it’s a VERY IMPORTANT question that we need to think of. Also, I was going somewhere with this, along with other questions like this.
Again, if you felt attacking I appologize. I just feel that even atheist should question thing that they believe, and not because someone told them that it’s true, and I’m not saying that you are one of those people.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Also, the videos you suggested, I’ve watched all three and I do have a reply for every one of those question that she asked.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe And as far as Hitchens, I already have but like I said one topic at a time.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@dline97 Is it not possible that you can see the utter folly of a remark like "what your heart is longing for is god"?
I do not long for that which is both impossible and undesirable. Your heaven would be absolute hell to me. Fortunately it doesn't exist.
Your stories are old and plagarised and cobbled together by primitive people who had no other explanation for the world.
Move on; join us in the modern era.
"Imagine there's no heaven"
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe move on? where? to rot in the dirt you stand on? thats ultimately where we are going if there is no heaven right? i can't "imagine" there being no heaven just like i can't imagine not being born, its reality bro. why are you running from the freedom of the Gospel?
dline97 8 months ago
@dline97 "move on? where? to rot in the dirt you stand on? thats ultimately where we are going if there is no heaven right?"
Yes.
You put it in as unpleasant a way as you can, but yes.
Do you understand why heaven would be atrocious to anybody who truly contemplated it?
What is it? - no day or night, no substance, no mischievousness, no discussion, no spring or autumn. Only endless prostration and subservience to an god who needs your face on the ground and your arse in the air.
What an eternity
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe all wrong bro. read ur Bible. imagine a place where there is no more tears, no more pain , and you will see Jesus face to face. ETERNAL JOY
dline97 8 months ago
@dline97 type into YT "ZOMGitsCriss atheist umbrella" and listen. It's not long. The accent is sometimes a little hard, but persever.
Then get back to me and refute it.
There are people on YT some much more articulate than I - including Cristina, and Christopher Hitchens - both brilliant.
Watch and take note!
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe saw the video,check out my comment on it,u would love it. but anyways i hope you know that our faith is not blind. We can all agree that there was a man named Yeshua (Jesus) of nazareth who was crucified under pontius pilate.also check out the prophesies that the bible has predicted not only on the Messiah(Yeshua) but on other major events such like the reign of king Alexander and the fall of his empire.while you at it check out your sin.blind faith is dangerous , no bueno
dline97 8 months ago
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@StrumstickJoe God did not create bad people. According the creation account found in Genesis, God created man "in His own image, in the image of God he created them;" (Gen 1:27) Since according to the Bible God is good, we know that man was originally good. However, when man sinned by disobeying God, man was separated from God for eternity. The only way for man to have a relationship with a perfect God is for that perfect God to sacrifice himself for us, taking our sin upon Himself.
db1291 10 months ago
The question you posed implied that I need an authority to inform me what is an immoral act; I believe that I can decide independently that it is immoral to suggest that one might pass one’s sins or faults onto another person (as one might pass on, say a financial debt). In fact, christians base their whole belief system on that one premise. I think it is contrived interpretation of a myth – and, I repeat, immoral…
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe You may not think you submit to an authority, but we all do. In your case you are the ultimate authority of right and wrong. I'm not sure how long you have been alive, but you are putting a whole lot of faith into your own judgement for only being on the planet less than a century (but probably less than half a century).
allasloss 10 months ago 5
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jmkora 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe It seems to me that the question is not so much whether or not one can behave morally without a God, but whether an objective, independent morality can exist without a God. From an atheistic perspective, morality is simply the by product of socio-biological conditioning; a purely human construct. There is not real truth value associated with moral precepts. It logically follows that moral progress doesn't exist, only moral difference.
jmkora 10 months ago
@jmkora … well, then they wouldn’t have got that far; they would have died in their caves (as the Neanderthals and many other branches of “homo” did.) Lower animals have species-preserving traits, credit us with a few. 99% of all species that have evolved have become extinct (some creation, eh?) Life is the only truth.
Please look at “authors @ Google: Christopher Hitchens” on YT. He is so much more articulate than I. Thanks for your considered reply.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "99% of all species that have evolved have become extinct (some creation, eh?)"
The implication is that the extinction of species provides evidence for atheism. Please elaborate. You may want to look into the Gaia hypothesis.
jmkora 10 months ago
@jmkora Gaia is a hypothesis that might have some practical applications - but its premise of self-regulation seems to imply a "reason" & attempt to negate the fact the planet is unstable and is headed for destruction.
No. My implication is that evolution is random and aimless - has no reason nor destination, and I am ridiculing the religious claims that there is a prime cause and a celestial Kim Il-sung watching us for eternity. I don't need to "prove" atheism, it is not a belief system.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
I have read and watched Christopher Hitchens, at length. His consist of theatrics and emoting. Emotions doesn't constitute logical argumentation.
Hitchens argument can be surmised as follows:
1.) Bad stuff happens in the world
2.) If God allowed bad stuff to happen, he would be a meanie.
3.) I don't like the idea God being a meanie.
4.) Therefore, God does not exist.
jmkora 10 months ago
@jmkora Read & watched, but not listened. What an inversion of the fact! This silly religious video, and tens of thousands of others - and religion itself - are made of theatrical appeal to emotion! (Witness all the soft-focus airbrushed imagery of the American religious mindset) You will never see the irony of calling CH emotive - so inaccurate that it must be deliberately so. Your 4 points are trivially put, but 3/4 OKish. No.3) is assumes the existence of a god - which CH knows is false.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe You have raised some interesting points. It would seem to me however, that atheism fails to satisfy, both existentially and empirically. Hitchens' arguments do not attempt to falsify theism; he only tries to demonstrate how undesirable it is. This is not logical argumentation. Your claim that you "don't need to prove atheism" is very much ill-conceived. Atheism is not a lack of belief in God; rather it is the ACTIVE belief in the LACK of God. It is a claim, and requires defense.
jmkora 10 months ago
@jmkora It only seems to you that it fails to satisfy. I’m not really into philosophy and its language, but I would say that the actions and thoughts of an atheist are based on observation and experiment, and an anti-intellectual view that we are free and responsible and don’t need an outside cause.
Atheism literally means “without god”, I only have to defend the view if the god-people start coming in with evidence that seems strong. it's not happened yet. You should think yourself free.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@jmkora It seems to me that the question is whether or not one can behave morally. I think I can, and millions of others can also; no god needed. My examples of (paticularly christian) immorality below remain undicussed. I didn’t suggest morality is a human construct, and wouldn’t. But, as Hitchens says, if the human race didn’t know thou shalt not kill by that time Moses appeared with the slabs …
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "It seems to me that the question is whether or not one can behave morally. I think I can, and millions of others can also; no god needed." There are plenty of Atheists who are moral and I applaud them. The question becomes is there a logical reason for this? Evolution is red in tooth and nail (I think thats how the saying goes). Its dog-eat-dog. A relative moral framework is eventually meaningless. For example, some cultures feed their neighbors, others eat them. Which is moral?
davidml1023 10 months ago
@davidml1023 1)..“The question becomes is there a logical reason for this?” That doesn’t seem to matter to me, I only understand my own logic and morality – which is all I need unless I’m displaced my someone else’s extreme immorality. “Morality needs a higher authority to give it meaning” I don’t see that, you haven’t supported this statement.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "you haven’t supported this statement". Forgive me. 500 characters is bogus. Think of this argument, "moral people do A, B, and C. I do A, B, and C. Therefore I'm moral." This is the moral framework most follow. Ex. moral people help others, I help others, therefore I'm moral. My question, is there a logical reason why your list of A, B, and C is better than others? If so how? Does your system reflect the value of people and their rights? If so why? What gives people value/worth?
davidml1023 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe "The question you posed implied that I need an authority to inform me what is an immoral act". I'm not sure if this has been stated. If so I apologize. Morality needs a higher authority to give it meaning or else it becomes relative to the individual and falls apart entirely. For example, Hitler believed he was moral for implementing his final solution. Its like currency. What gives money value? Gold? Why? Because its rare? People give value to gold. God gives value to Morality.
davidml1023 10 months ago
@davidml1023 3)..Hitler, BTW had his birthday celebrated by the church every year – and they never excommunicated him. I think most people can see that he was immoral.
“God gives value..” then my morality has no value.
You are more polite than the average christian debater.
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe 3)"Hitler, BTW had his birthday celebrated by the church" Which is why I only follow Jesus.
"'God gives value..' then my morality has no value." Thats my basic premise. If you follow the natural outworking of your philosophy, this would have to be your conclusion. Read Friedrich Nietzsche. He coined the phrase God is dead. He came to some logical conclusions that eventually inspired the holocaust. He believed it was moral to get rid of lower humans to give rise to the 'superman'.
davidml1023 10 months ago
@davidml1023 3)..Death is the very centrepiece of religious thinking – and the fear of death is probably the prime cause for it.
“moral people do A, B, and C. I do A, B, and C. Therefore I'm moral.” – this is circular. And many of your questions insult the idea that millions of people all over the world, and throughout a 250,000 yr history have had much worth without having religion.
YT Authors @ google Christopher Hitchens – watch it.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Its not circular. People feel they are moral if they follow certain ethical guidelines whether its based on religion or societal needs. Laws are built around those ethical guidelines to keep order. How is one set of guidelines better than others? And can you defend it? Ex. Communism is moral because its better for the societal whole VS Anarchy is moral because its better for the individual VS Capitalism... Whats the moral precedence? Your way? Relative ethics is no ethics.
davidml1023 10 months ago
@davidml1023 1).. I think my morality has value – that’s my point. You seem to be over-concerned about systems and logical outcomes – much as Nietzsche was – whereas I am saying the world is as it is, we can improve our social habits because we hve the brain power, but we get along with it. We have come a long way by discovering we shouldn’t kill each other at random. I am not scared of death and total oblivion; that would be like being scared of life…
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe 1) The problem is that ethics/morality IS a philosophical system and has logical outcomes. We really haven't come a long way from killing each other (holocaust). The A,B, and C I mentioned before is ethics. Morality is doing them (at least thats how i define them -- might be different). If more then half of the world thinks its good to get rid of undesirables (be it the unborn or a certain nationality) does that make it right? How can you argue one code of ethics over another?
davidml1023 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe 1b) Let me give you an example. Was Hitler immoral to kill 6 million Jews? If so why? The world was as it was back then. In order to answer that question, we have to answer another question first, do people have value where it is wrong to kill them? I believe you'd say yes. So then who gives people value? Society? The German society thought it was ok (logical outcomes). Were they wrong? Who are you to say theyre wrong? BTW, the Germans were very smart. Brains =/= Morals
davidml1023 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe My overall point is this... There is no one Atheistic frame of mind. Atheists have invented several types of humanism as their vessel of choice for ethics. For example, egocentric humanism says whatever makes you feel good is moral (those like Hefner fit) while Marxist humanism says whatever is good for the whole is moral. Evolutionary humanism (Nietzsche falls into this one) is the scariest -- eliminate the poor quality genes to enhance the human race. Which should I believe in?
davidml1023 10 months ago
@davidml1023 3).. Certainly not one who was creator, invigilator, wrathful judge and executioner. There is no evidence for such a being – and in my experience of arguing of the point nobody has produced evidence outside the bible. So we need to establish individual points. My brain tells me there is no magic; and the precarious situation we are in tells me that there was no design. Thanks for the discussion, it has been thought-provoking. Now hit my vids – cos I need hits!
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@davidml1023 2)..We have evolved a relatively good brain – good enough to consider moral consequences – but will it ever be good enough to find a moral “stationary point” from which to make absolute decisions?
Those of us who care about the world of men each feel that at least we have some kind of judging point; but some of us can’t understand why you would need an outside force to give us that.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@davidml1023 1)..The world we stand on is spinning very fast and orbiting a star in a galaxy that is moving at high speed away from most others (unfortunately the Andromeda galaxy is moving towards our course, and we will collide – but that’s for the future). There is no stationary point for us to take reference from if we want to measure space or time in an absolute way.
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@davidml1023 2)..“Evolution is red in tooth and nail.” A god would surely have created a world of vegetarians with no need to kill?
“Which is moral?” You know the answer to this – the question is, would you not know the answer without your god?
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe 2) "A god would surely have created a world of vegetarians with no need to kill?" Without going too off topic, yes. God created a world of vegetarians. Death was never the original plan. but i digress.
"would you not know the answer without your god?" If I were not a Christian, I would have to come up with a moral framework that supported my presupposition/agenda. I might think, "If there is no God, then only material exists(Carl Sagan) and not fanciful ideas as absolute morals.
davidml1023 10 months ago
@davidml1023 2)… Virtually every animal is eaten by another, either chased down, or after death; god didn’t create a world of vegetarians, so I don’t know where you got that from! (Actually, he didn’t create anything, did he? Can you understand that we don’t need him because he is a figment of Iron Age imagination?)
StrumstickJoe 10 months ago
@StrumstickJoe you miss the point. Not passing on debt. Willing taking debt. You got students? car payments? mortgage? rent? you wouldn't accept someone to pay for that? Then lets that take further... you have a charge on your account and the wage is eternal damnation??? Its immoral for someone to pay the penalty so that you can be saved from the consequences? I'm sorry that you believe in such a wacked out morality system my friend.
jrwlock 9 months ago
@jrwlock WHAT?? My responsibility for payments on my car do not equate with my responsibility for the murder I committed last night.
You talk nonsense and your logic is either seriously unbalanced or absent.
I don't think I am your friend; I think you are being sacrasctic.
If you read all my posts on this before you reply, you might see some thoughtfulness and reasoning for you to deal with.
Religion is immoral, primitive and dangerous, and it spoils our world.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe what is IMMORAL?
dline97 8 months ago
@dline97 Christians tell the lie to children that they are born sinful, then compound this with the story that they may have their sins absolved by someone else. It is immoral to think this could be so. Your reason for living morally is based on the reward of heaven if you do, or the punishment of hell if you don’t – you are not moral under those circumstances. Human sacrifice, genital mutilation, cannibalism, threats of hell - all immoral!
I wish you peace and happiness.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Interesting enough, this sermon was posted on oneplace.com a couple of days ago.
Here is the full sermon, listen to it if you'd like, it you don't that's fine too. Really up to you. If I were you one question I would ask myself is "If someone were to give me all the answer to the questions I had about God, will I accept Jesus Christ?" and if the answer is no, then this back forth argument/discussion whatever you guys want to call it, is useless.
eisagholi 8 months ago
@eisagholi I haven't got any questions about god. The purpose of my posts is to try (in a small way) to leave the world a better place than I found it.
You know I think religion immoral - but the worst thing is, they believe that this life is not the only one, and thereby devalue it.
That is why religious people kill and die for their faith.
If we keep on slugging, maybe more and more will join us and see the reality of the life we have.
"Imagine there's no heaven"
Peace.
StrumstickJoe 8 months ago
@StrumstickJoe By no means am I trying to convert you or accept jesus, etc.
First, you are the one posting on a SERMON trying to convince people that religion is immoral, if anything you're pushing your view on others.
Second, to saying because of religion alot of people of died is just ignorance. Are you forgetting Hilter, Stalin, and the rest of communist leaders or dictators throughout history. Most didn't believe in God, because they considered themselves to be God.
Peace.
eisagholi 8 months ago