Mormons usually have an answer to the theodicy question. They will either say that the earth as it is being played out was our choice - we all voted for this plan while we were souls. Or they will cede that their God is not all-powerful. Mainstream Christians have a bigger problem with the theodicy issue.
Asking Mormons for "middle ground" is silly. The missionaries I talk to all reject the idea of "middle ground." They'll accept that many religions have "some" truth, but they insist that they are the only ones who are 100% right. Basically, you cut your hair, wear a tie, smile and politely insist you know you've figured out essentials of the universe by praying and going to testimony meetings.
Atheist for the win! The Mormon religion is a cult but so are ALL religions. My heathen friends will enjoy "Religious Fanatic debates Atheist" on my channel.
God gifted men with reason. Your reason is to tear down religious beliefs of many religions. Let me reverse it on you and ask you Could the Book of Mormon Be true? What then? Could the Christian Bible be true? what then? you die it is too late for you. You cannot claim nativity in front of the lord. At least belonging to a religion that teaches doing good works in your life I will die a satisfied man even "if" (sake of argument) there is no god. If u die and we were right uh-oh.
@eatersofdead I think you meant you can't claim naivety in front of your sky daddy. Why would this god give you a mind to reason with then when you come to the logical conclusion that he doesn't exist he tortures you forever? What kind of loving is that? Why would he want someone like you who didn't use the gift of intelligence he was given he just believed what he was told, mainly because he is scared? What kind of God wants robots to love him?
@okltsply You are thinking of it the wrong way, He is not going to make you suffer it will be you that suffers. We as Mormons believe through divine providence through the profit Joseph Smith that there are 4 Different places we can go when we die, with many different levels of glory in them. Even if you go to the highest degree in the terrestrial world you will still be in some sort of hell (the hell that you created) while you had a mortal body on this earth.
@okltsply Claiming naivety in front of the lord, is that everything down here manifest that of him. You will not be able to claim you didn't know there was no god. It will not be a suitable answer for him. There are two gods in the Bible, there is a loving forgiving, caring god, and there is the spiteful, vengeful god. I could ask you the same thing about Jesus? How could he (Being God) let his son go through what he had to endure? What kind of God would do that?
@eatersofdead The kind that wanted a first hand perspective of the life he puts his children through. The unselfish type... the loving type... the perfect type....
@okltsply I do fear God. If not returning to him and ending my salvation here upon this time I would be fearful of him to put me in to an eternal place away from truth and light. Would that not scare anyone if you truly think about it? I am Mormon, I am not the best by far I have many spiritual scares, however my testimony is strong in him, I have not been told that. I know that. I must have been one of the few people who has been graced with the power of knowledge of such.
@mikelheron20 it was never meant in the phrase be afraid, the term or word fear was used or implied as "respect" him not be afraid of him.that is something that confuses many people and has to be looked at carefully. however if you choose to be afraid its all good lol. By the way I am a God fearing man.
@okltsply Back to the hellish spot. How would you feel "IF" you went to one of the lower kingdoms? Yet knowing for eternity you had the chance to make it back to your "True" potential? It is yourself (Everyone's self) that is making their own hell upon this earth in this time. We are obviously on some sort of Journey in this life that leads us somewhere. I just don't accept when we die there is nothing we die and the worms eat us and blackness forever and ever. What a depressing world.
@eatersofdead We don't buy that after life is just darkness because eternity has been placed upon our hearts and the hope of it was installed in our minds. Yet for some reason, people fear this eternal darkness. How can darkness come where only light has shined? How can something come out of nothing? Unconsciousness cannot form consciousness. Your right were on a journey, together, only the grand consciousness knows where were going.
Moses wanted to see other worlds. The lord said to him be content with this world. After he saw all the inhabitants of this world. He said he was nothing. He divided water and was a great man called of God. If that does not put it into perspective I don't know what will. Also we all die, that time clock is ticking for us all. Death has our number, The one true thing in life you can count on is that you (everyone) is going to die. (A mortal death). "Strike me down, so that I can become more power
Oh my gosh human suffering. Out of all the sufferings we "ALL" suffer in life. Some more than others. Yet when I think it is all said and done and we are standing on the other side we will look back, even if we suffered greatly we will look back and say. That wasn’t so bad. If we were on God's Level and had a glimpse of eternity and that we could understand it. All the sufferings in the world would not matter.
The thing that makes Mormons the true religion is that of the priesthood. It goes to the base of our theology. I will "die" believing this. As Muslims would say the same thing about their religion. Why not go ask a Muslim this question. Do it over in Iran or the Sudan. I would like to see their response. You are asking and setting up these missionaries on purpose to prove a point. I all ready see where u are headed and I am only 3 min in to the video. All this proves is u premeditate these meeti
@eatersofdead What was the Mormon response at the Mountain Meadows Massacre? Showing some real love there huh? What about all the other incidents in Missouri and everywhere else you nuts have stirred up trouble? All religion is barbaric and primitive. Blood sacrifices,oppression and subjection of women, and in the case of Christianity/Mormonism the delusion that they are all about love and morality. Religion in America has been brought kicking and screaming into behaving"morally"
The middle ground is America. America was based of religious freedom It is in our first amendment Freedom of religion not freedom from religion. I am not sure what you mean by middle ground. Everyone has a choice to make. I don't see Mormons pointing guns at people saying join us or die. I do see Muslims do that though. Religions can come together not in theology but to support one another in freedom of religion. There is only 1 true church. It is up to the individual to find their own answers.
Hence today religious bigotry is fading in favour of neodarwinistic bigotry and authority-fetishism: NOTHING has changed, at least certainly not for the better. We now have a society of robotic, fascistoid, cynical, unthinking, intellectually incompetent and scientifically illiterate amoral neodarwinistic believers who are into obeying authority. In all fairness, it's rather a regression, even compared to Catholicism...
...incompetence and passivity and hence requires a SCAPEGOAT, unto which he can load all these unsavoury inferiorities. Too bad the typical programmed neodarwinist doesn't spend a bit more time investigating SCIENCE, rather than contenting himself with slurs at religiously programmed people, but I guess that could be a bit too much of an effort, intellectually...
...are in dire need of a diversion. They're ALL TALKING about the 'retardedness' of religion, like brainwashed parrots. What they don't realize is that they RELIGIOUSLY BELIEVE anything OTHER authroities tell them. They're just as bigoted as the bigots they scorn, which is precisely WHY they detest them so much: they're PROJECTING. Since the neodarwinist atheist is a brainwashed victim incapable of independent thought, he needs to get rid of all the garbage inherent in his intellectual...
@suddenlyitsobvious It's wong to sum up everyone that bashes religion as obeying "anything OTHER authorities tell them." Wouldn't a person willing to question religion be more likely to question authorities outside of religion? If you are referring to science that is simply acknowledging proven fact and this helps mold our understanding of reality and should be discredited.
' It's wong to sum up everyone that bashes religion as obeying "anything OTHER authorities tell them' You're obviously not very familiar, or simply haven't noticed, that's there's a very loud effort against religion going on in the public sphere, and that this effort is being spearheaded by PROMINENTS, guys like Hitchens, Dawkins.
They are professionally bashing religion while aggressively promoting science and this general dynamic is what influences many people...
...into taking very aggressive stances against religion, while of course equally fawning open-mouthedly at science.
' Wouldn't a person willing to question religion be more likely to question authorities outside of religion' Not at all, especially since they haven't managed to question religion by themselves at all, they've merely followed the times, like fashio systems.
' If you are referring to science that is simply acknowledging proven fact '
This is a religious and inaccurate statement. Science is swarming with unproven assumptions and outrageous concoctions -such as 'dark matter'- soon taken for fact, when they are simply inventions to make models work.
@suddenlyitsobvious Ok, there's no emperical evidence to support your claim that people that question religion wouldn't question other authority. I don't know where you're getting this theory that all people that question religion are just doing it to get on the band wagon. And wtf are you talking about that saying science is based on fact and research is a religous statement. They don't know everything and have to assume some with what scientists are given but science is..
@suddenlyitsobvious Naw, go ahead "destroy" me. But you are a fool if you discredit scientific evidence or claim that use of its facts is a religous issue. Science is a non-valued based study, which means no influence from religions or beliefs, only what is there and what can be proven.
'Science is a non-valued based study, which means no influence from religions or beliefs, only what is there and what can be proven.'
Science is completely loaded with all sorts of metaphysical assumptions that are unprovable and/or unproven; to name but a few:
The universe must be understood mechanistically and atomistically, containing primary and secondary qualities (Galileo, Descartes), the former being defined as visible, observable, measurable or quantifiable,...
...material and real,leading to objective knowledge and the secondary qualities are defined as invisible, non-observable, immeasurable or unquantifiable, immaterial & relatively unreal.
Matter being primary, it gives rise to mind as a secondary phenomenon, hence brains give rise to consciousness (awareness) wherefore the idea of an independently existing soul or spirit is a superstitious and erroneous fiction
...of biological evolution (emergentism, materialism) & brains give rise to consciousness (epiphenomenalism or mind-brain identity). Empirical knowledge can only be acquired through physical senses and their instrumental extensions; the observer can study world impersonally and separately from himself (objectivism).
Causes and explanations can only be physical - and upwards (positivism). Phenomena are understood through analysis of its parts (reductionism...
...and atomism), purpose & meaning (why) are excluded from scientific analysis.
Evidence contravening this view is unthinkable and can be summarily dismissed. You're using the typical, vague slogans in a religious fashion, of science being
'evidence-based' and 'value-free' but above assumptions aren't value-free at all, nor
does the concept of 'evidence' mean quite as much as you 'think' it does.
Science simply formulates hypotheses, that could be...
...global warming dogma simply don't get funding for their research. Hence climatologists go about seeking 'evidence' for the politically-correct hypothesis declared to be fact, while ignoring ll the other options. Hence they produce evidence that people like you subsequently take as PROOF for the hypothesis, never realizing or wanting to realize that you are merely buying into self-fulfilling prophecies based on really BAD SCIENCE that routinely violates...
...all of its own professed principles. You BELIEVE whatever scientific authorities tell you exactly like a bible belt bigot believes his minister. There's no advanced personal processing involved, you simply accept on faith, fully trusting that science 'works' because after all, in the end, it has made computers and atomic bombs. Isn't that right, son?
@suddenlyitsobvious Ok you're referring to highly debated topics that there is not much solid ground for. Such as dark matter, I'm guessing you include string-theory, global warming obviously. I am supporting the more or less concrete things like anatomy, structures of atoms, physics to an reasonable extent, psychology, etc. not these loose theories. Things like this that are no issue of political influence have gone through the scientific method and much scrutiny, things...
@RossetaStoned91 What you call 'more or less concrete things' have been developed in precisely the same manner I pointed out and were once themselves highly debated topics. It becomes difficult to see this after a few generations, since science and its institutions simply move on, and it is forgotten altogether by public AND scientists that a number of fundamental problems were never solved and the supposed 'facts' have in fact NOT been demonstrated to be fact.
...btw why science is constantly changing every single aspect of every single theory, always moving forwards with new elaborations, never going back to the point in time where the error occurred. If you look for instance at 'evolution', it has NOTHING to do today with Darwin's work.
All the found fossils that were problematic for the establishment because contradicting the evolutionary narrative were simply shelved in some drawers for decades. Basically, the...
...entire 'Cambrian explosion' found by Walcott in the early 1900s was sent to the Smithsonian and basically pretty much ignored, not to say covered up, for half a century, because INCONVENIENT. Same thing with geneticist Mendel's work: ignored for thirty years because deemed INCONVENIENT, couldn't be fitted in to the evolutionary narrative at that time. Even for such massive things as evolution, the REAL, ACTUAL dynamic simply is:
2. Whatever means possible are used -including blatant deception- to make evolution come true. A number of generations later, as ALL scientists basically go by evolution since the entire system is fundamentally intertwined with it today, it is simply taken for granted that 'evolution is true because countless scientists are involved and they've gathered lots of evidence'. People in society are subsequently being brainwashed by the likes of puppets like...
...Dawkins and basically by the entire system of politics, media, education, the entire bulk of society's institutions, that ONLY RELIGIOUS NUTTERS oppose evolution. That it's a question of 'church/belief versus science/evidence'. In reality, few people are intellectually equipped to question ANYTHING they are taught from the cradle, such as 'evolution'. They've been PROGRAMMED, CONDITIONED into it, and the problems surrounding this narrative are in fact MASSIVE.
@suddenlyitsobvious So you're questioning our whole educational system? That seems a bit paranoid. There has to be a good bit of solid proof in a lot of fields or we wouldn't have the technology and medicine we have to today or be able to further it. Evolution is basically accepted as truth but that's still one of those big, controversial issues. There are remains of humanoid creatures walking on 2 feet that have qualities of evolving stages. You've seen them right?
'So you're questioning our whole educational system? That seems a bit paranoid'
Interestingly, as you see, your statements are NOT based on some kind of familiarity with the subject matter or scientific literacy. Don't take it personally but after about a decade and a half in the schoolbanks, you've learned how to read and write and count a bit and that's about it. In fact, the main message you've learned apparently is that some intelligent people are basically figuring..
...out what's true and what's not and there's no reason to doubt them. In fact, doubting too much of what these people say is 'paranoid' -which is of course strictly speaking a PSYCHIATRIC term, meanin something must be wrong with someone's mental health were he to really question science or education. So have you learned to think for yourself, develop critical thinking skills, are you EXTREMELY CURIOUS about all the mysteries of life that you are now equipped...
...to uncover and discover thanks to your education? Or have you in fact been molded into an intellectually passive, religious person who really doesn't know anything about anything, and doesn't even realize this, has lost all curiosity about how things work, wouldn't even know where to start to figure anything out, and simply trusts the system works?
Have you ever wondered if it's REALLY the point of education to develop your mind?
...to DULL your mind, control you, condition you into a passive, unquestioning piece of cattle, a 'human resource' 'happy' to contribute to the wellfare of the collective and the competitiveness of the economy... Science has accomplished very sophisticated things in the engineering departments -thanks to its unlimited access to 'human resources' of course. Where its understanding of life, biology, mind etc is concerned, science is completely pitiful.
'Why should I believe what you said is true?' And here you have it: indeed, why should you BELIEVE? Your options are, you either believe someone more credible, or someone less credible, someone you don't know, so you figure it's probably best to not BELIEVE what he's saying. What your education hasn't managed to instill in you, is the awareness of YOUR OWN ABILITIES and processing skills. You don't have to BELIEVE anyone, and precisely...
...as this exchange started out, we have now come to the point where YOU are confirming that you are using the same RELIGIOUS faculties as the mormons: UNCRITICAL BELIEF. The entire point of being a human is getting to KNOW, which involves using one's own mind. If your mind is functional, you don't need to believe anyone or anything cos you can simply figure it out for yourself. By the time education is through with you, people are sooooooo discouraged that they...
@suddenlyitsobvious If that's the case then everyone would have to start at damn near square zero. Plus the minds great, but humans constantly make false assumptions.
EXACTLY. Well, something still seems to be working alright!
It all needs to be connected and make sense within your OWN mind, only working with what YOU know is fact.
If this seems discouraging, there are great benefits but also great problems: it soon involves completely reassess everything in a manner not unlike Neo in the Matrix movie...
What an idiot. All educations start with indoctrinations. A young mind isn't capable of critical thinking. When you reach adulthood, science highly encourage critical thinking. There's a reason why science students have to do hundreds of hours of scientific experiments. Plus scientific shortcoming are constantly taught at school. See how you mentioned Mendel's work? you probably were taught about how his work were ignored for decades in a biology class.
'What an idiot. All educations start with indoctrinations. A young mind isn't capable of critical thinking. When you reach adulthood, science highly encourage critical thinking' Aha, aha; Hmmm, indeed. So basically 'science highly encourage critical thinking' once people are indoctrinated.
The issue isn't dishing out the blame, nitwit. The issue is that if education is indoctrination, AS I WAS CONTENDING, and which prompted you to reply 'what an idiot', then I was right all along. YOU can't think and you don't even understand what critical thinking skills are. You just figure anything authority does, anything that's institutional, has basically got to be a good thing, and then you work your argument schizophrenically around that immutable social reality, like...
...a complete dimwitted clown -a sad clown though... If indoctrination is a prerequisite for education then there's a number of problems surfacing, aren't there Einstein? That you're too lazy & dull to see these issues is YOUR problem, but that you actually accuse those smart & evolved enough to realize what garbage 'education' is of being 'idiots', well, that is just something else! Read my posts again, apeman, & then yours: your posts are laughably substandard.
@suddenlyitsobvious That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. Science when it comes to biology and life has grown leaps and bounds in terms of knowledge. We know the entire story of life all the way back to the first self replicating molecule and soon that mystery will be solved as well. Then there is all the advancements in medicines and surgeries, true you can credit some of that to recent electronic engineering but most of it is based on work on genetics
'Then there is all the advancements in medicines ' Though there's abundant food today in the West, incidence of sickness rising sharply, even millions of kids being simply...
And really, are you that dumb? Just look at my posts, they've clearly been composed by an intelligent, literate individual, whereas you're just parroting a few dumb headlines.
And really, are you that dumb? Just look at my posts, they've clearly been composed by an intelligent, literate individual, whereas you're just parroting a few dumb headlines.
And really, are you that dumb? Just look at my posts, clearly composed by an intelligent, literate individual, whereas you're just parroting a few screamy headlines.
@suddenlyitsobvious ..like this I apply to my reasoning including that of religion. Sociology is probably noteworthy also. I do agree with you though that a lot of scientist researching these hot issues arre whores.
@suddenlyitsobvious ..based on emperical evidence. Seriously, do yourself a favor and type in "Skewed views of science" and don't bother reply to me until you do.
How interesting that even on this thread people are pushing science. Why does science need to be pushed IN OPPOSITION to religion? Science has been operating free of religious constraints for a few centuries now, so it's really bizarre so many neo-darwinists are jumping on the psychotic bandwagon promoted by sex-abuse victim R Dawkins: if youi want to be on the BRIGHTS team, you must bash religion. What's really goiung on here is neodarwinists can't push evolution on its own merits and...
Questions for PolsciStudent. What are you trying to prove with your videos? Why don't you show your face in your videos? Is your purpose to just bother people who have beliefs? Do you study up on how to catch people in a simple contradiction and just do it over and over? What are your beliefs about life? Do you really think you're more intelligent than all the people you're speaking to? Why does doing that make you feel good? Is it power? What do you as a person offer to society? - Jay
every religion involves some kind of nutheads. if god is real, why doesn't he show himself? why does he always rely on so called "prophets" to spread his message?
@betopelotas801 That's because the vast majority of atheists have converted from Christianity, so that would be kind of redundant. That would be almost like referring to water as "ex-vapor water" lol. Btw, I'm an ex-Christian, myself, so now you've heard of one. ;)
2 mormen missionaries....slid into my parked car in front of my house......these kids were scared shitless....yesterday....a car registered to the "president of the state of lethbridge"....now my insurance company.....says their insurance company does not exist...my wife and I treated these por kids who were a 2000 miles from home...like they our boys.....And yet....I think The bible is very stupid.. irrelevant.. complete non-sense.....but they could not believe how nice we were....
The question is stupid. Why would they know where the middle ground is? Religion doesn't have to account for everything God does. These guys said " I believe" plenty and didn't speak in absolutest terms. You just wasted your and their time.
It's like you went out their expecting a certain kind of religious person and when you didn't find them you didn't adapt to your new situation. I can't believe you even posted this. You look like a fool.
good job with the videos man, staying polite and not condescending.i actually didnt even know what mormonism was till 2009 when the first missionaries came to Holland, and then came to be very close with a mormon girl, went to japan, got into this exact same debate with american missionaries there. tried to stay as open-minded as possible, but in the end, the answers you get are just too much based on belief without evidence. no matter how weird things sound. I'm agnostic too
My son was persecuted by a teacher who was mormon at public school. The teacher told him to ask me if he could go with him over the weekend to see some temples in St. Louis. After the history teacher who was mormon got an answer he did not like, he let the rest of the students go in his class and poked my son repeatedly in the chest all cause his DAD would not let him go on the temple trip. Good News...very next day that teacher was terminated.
the 'common ground' is the freedom of religious expression. you can disagree, argue, debate. to force religion on another crosses the line. a common ground in terms of ideology need not exist.
this applies to basically every other ideology humans adhere to. where is the common ground between communism and capitalism? democracy and fascism? how do we stop men from killing to advance these structures? and if we can't find a middle ground, does that render them all fundamentally bankrupt?
it's easier to contradict them if you compare what is in the Bible to what is in the Book of Mormon... you can argue against the bible but its a lot easier to argue against mormons who say they they believe in both things and contradict themselves and act like a cult in so many ways...
The irony is if you read texts from JWs, Mormons, Baptists and so on, they will all tell you a story about someone praying for god's true religion. Then, wham, here comes a jw or mormon or baptist and God has answered their prayers.....Yet all of these religions think the other will die at the end time, or not get the full glory of god. Is god sending people from all these religions, or are they just crazy?
The Bible is a more sure Word of prophecy with documented history leading up to current world affairs backing it up all the way. Prophecy validates God's Word. Jesus is the middle ground and the answer to all problems. He came down to teach about priorities and the spiritual laws that govern life. If you apply them and live for God and others then they will work all the time. It's all about restored relationship with love as the motivator and faith as the activator. God can totally be proven!
im an atheist and the first guy with the tie deserves my respect. he seemed to try to promote peace of mind to people and general peace believes aside i like the dude
@len6nar42 I agree.Isn't it right to say "A truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent"?Sometimes the attitude of the speaker can be quite important(if not as important) as the message itself.I think Mormonism doesn't make sense even compared to other organized religions,but in terms of the attitude, he is more respective than the guy throwing questions in such a disturbing manner.
I'm not a Mormon but I'm already feeling bad for the young mormon missionaries.They supported the mission with their part time job money n 2 years of their lifetime for sth they believe to be "the truth",n wat they get mostly is harassment.They need time n respect to listen to different opinions.While I'm unhappy about Mormons knocking on my door,I'm equally disgusted by this agnostic guy's approach.He seems to be the radical "terrorist" atheist.:[
@kugakuga he's not a terrorist if he actually asks them legitimate question dude.... Sure its a bit sad that young mormon people are being treated like dirt somewhere, but why should they be embraced? Their beliefs are fucked up! everything in the book of mormon (their bible) is stuff that can be proven otherwise. fuck sake they think that jesus was born in Mississippi! everything points to him being born in Israel (although i'm an atheist) there is enough evidence of his birth. so please. -.-
@FreakyShow95 U made an important point on the largely ignored historical evidence.It's quite horrible even when Mormon archeologists mess up the origin/history of Egypt.It's ok to question the religion,but the attitude is without respect.Approaching with camera n askin prepared,out of context questions to embarrass the other is arrogant n rude.If i were to film n question religious ppl,i'd have the gut to show my face side by side like I'm actually talkin to a person,not a target
@FreakyShow95 We may keep in mind that sociology n psychology reveals when an organization feels disrespected n humiliated as a group,ppl feel more united instead of questioning their group.Smart ppl can always make ways to legitimize n reconcile their belief n evidences to make sense for them.Isn't it strange that Mormon missionaries face this type of questions every now n then n still find their faith firmer?Perhaps ppl themselves decide how to interpret the same information
The video titles r arrogant enough 2make an agnostic to frown.Ppl don't murder due to religion more than they do for cultural practices.Considering ppl cannot be perfectly unbiased,the so called"middle ground"may not exist.Let's c honor killing in Afghanistan for instance,since it's not taught in Islam,why does it happen?Honor killing is practiced way b4 Islam n is deep rooted in Pashtun tribal culture.To claim religious beliefs to be the sole source of fundamentalism is not quite balanced.
These guys are young, and they are repeating, as best they can, what they have been taught. In addition, they are probably not used to any sort of intellectual inquiry or engaging in rigorous debate. They have always been with people who mostly think the same way. If you want to see an interesting move on Mormon missionaries and their way of seeing things, check out "Latter Days."
blue-tie guy gave a pretty good answer. if there is a god, who is merciful, all good souls will be accepted into whatever form of heaven there is. the existence of other holy books doesn't imply that there isn't a god. the only thing it suggests is the universality of the human mind. fyi, i'm agnostic and believe that aliens genetically engineered humans - i advocate no religion, and i think most atheists are dicks.
@ianharwood Yes, people who base their beliefs on evidence and ask for evidence are dicks. They're always so judgmental, calling an entire group of people dicks because they are just dicks like that. I believe that the only difference between humans and chimps is a two percent difference in alien genes. That makes more sense than being made out of clay by a sky lord who sacrificed himself to himself to save everyone who believes in him and eats his flesh and drinks his blood.
Rofl if that girl to his right decides the great lizard king of the dirtmound is the true religion of man this kid's hormones will compel him to believe it.
Wow, you kinda derailed them there. Obviously though, because they aren't full adults and they haven't been nearly as "trained" as they will be, they won't have any hard answers to the questions, and they will be more open to suggestion.
However, the indoctrination is still present. Asking them why they are Mormon is the same as asking why are Mormon's so often from or living in Utah. It's because that's because their parents are Mormon, and that's all they know in life.
This is a great point. Mormonism is all they really know. Most of these people spend their whole lives surrounded by and interacting with other Mormons. It is their whole world to a large extent.
@RCSVirginia Mmhmm. I do have to say, though, that I can tell this candid video caught everyone off-guard, including the person who "owned" the Mormons. He claimed he wasn't trying to dog on them, but he was definitely making everyone uncomfortable.
Way back in Elementary School days, we were taught by the Guidance Counselor that this is NOT an appropriate time to confront someone on difficult subjects.
I do understand your point, but Mormon missionaries should be trained by the Mormon church to be prepared for tough questions, even when they are caught off guard, as in this video.
@RCSVirginia They were still quite young, not quite as indoctrinated, and of course, it doesn't matter how trained they were. When they go door to door, they are completely ready for any throw-back, as they have had time to mentally and emotionally prepare, and the encounters are much more private.
There's no good reason to believe it...and NO, Personal experiences, feelings, dreams, supposed eyewitness accounts or a whole bunch of followers doesn't count as evidence...
There's no good reason to believe it...and NO, Personal experiences, feelings, dreams, supposed eyewitness accounts or a whole bunch of followers doesn't count as evidence...
Here's the middle ground that they should have talked about: all of us have an inherent yearning for the Truth. All of us have an inherent yearning to make this world better off for our having lived in it. Even without RELIGION, people try to make good choices, and the other faiths of the world have tried to why we're supposed to make good decisions and how we're supposed to go about doing that.
"we don't convince anyone to join any true religion." what the f***?? Aren't mormons the ones who always convince and harass people walking down the streets to join their "true" religion?
I used to be a skeptic man, very skeptic about life. A true nihilist and existentialist. I believed in the absurd. But then something happened to me that I cannot explain. These things are spiritual. Because of the spiritual things, I believe in God. I believe in Mormonism because it is the most perfect faith of all other religions. I read the Qur'an, the Popol Vuh and several other codices; the sum of all of the features of each individual book is not at all on par with mormonism.
Because I can prove that we are here scientifically, (Brain in vat is just too much skepticism for me) I have a responsibility towards you first. But because I have faith (hope for things which cannot be scientifically know, but felt through intelligence), I have a secondary obligation to my faith. As long as that faith is in-line with my first obligation, everything is quite alright.
Augustine's premises are false. They are limited to certain applications and not for a total, universal use. What all religions teach, except for satanism which is egoistic, is a true sense of altruism. I am a Mormon, but I am a humanist first. We all must need to recognize how important it is to be here for each other. I do not know scientifically that God exists, but I do know that you and I are both here.
I was agnostic, but I realized I believe there is probably no God. An atheist does not necessarily believe there is no chance of a God or Gods, thats just their first belief beyond that of the fundamental uncertainty of reality. I am an Atheist who also recognizes the potential for other truths.
they knew what you were trying to do, you weren't really looking for answers, just looking to argue and prove them wrong. the fact that you were obnoxious and stubborn doesn't mean you owned anyone. they answered your questions pretty well and honestly, and were respectful. pretty impressive I thought
Fucking christ dude you couldn't find another term for middle ground? These people are obviously too retarded to understand the question. Stop fucking around with them.
"If it's true, then why isn't everybody Mormon on the earth?"
In Christ's time, was everyone Christian? In Moses' time, why did the Israelites deny the commandments of the lord even with so much physical evidences? God gave all of us our agency(the gift to choose.) Even though the Book of Mormon will be proven true,it is up to a person whether they choose to believe its truth or not. I'm a little bit disappointed that the missionaries haven't pointed out that people have their own agencies.
@mormondefender26 imho, It all boils down to prophecy, specifically, fulfilled prophecy. Were the prophecies of Isaiah, Daniel, Zechariah et al proven true in the birth, ministry death and resurrection of Yeshuah, YES. Has the bible proven to be historically as well as prophetically accurate YES. Did Mohammad and Joseph Smith (and a slew of others too) make predictions that totally failed to pan out--you betchya. They both claimed utterly false "histories" since disproved.
There is no middle ground. What reinforces the truth of Christianity is life, death, and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah. From Genesis to Revelation the bible points to the redemptive message of God's plan of salvation for humanity. 66 books and maybe around 40 authors, that in itself is amazing. The Koran 1 author and the Book of Mormon 1 author.
Mormons usually have an answer to the theodicy question. They will either say that the earth as it is being played out was our choice - we all voted for this plan while we were souls. Or they will cede that their God is not all-powerful. Mainstream Christians have a bigger problem with the theodicy issue.
mhatlie 11 hours ago
Asking Mormons for "middle ground" is silly. The missionaries I talk to all reject the idea of "middle ground." They'll accept that many religions have "some" truth, but they insist that they are the only ones who are 100% right. Basically, you cut your hair, wear a tie, smile and politely insist you know you've figured out essentials of the universe by praying and going to testimony meetings.
mhatlie 11 hours ago
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Atheist for the win! The Mormon religion is a cult but so are ALL religions. My heathen friends will enjoy "Religious Fanatic debates Atheist" on my channel.
Sweence 19 hours ago
Dude, your awesome! I share your thought processes my friend keep making comparative vids! :)
StrikeforceJedi 4 days ago
way to duck the questions.
newthrash1221 4 days ago
ISLAMMMMMMMMMM!
What Part of Allah is the only god and Muhammad is his prophet don’t these guys understand.
ST4leave 5 days ago
Aren't these guys trained in this stuff???
which one do you mean if you mean the one who interview i would say 100000% yes.
dohbabalue 6 days ago
dude.....it's just best you move on...these people drank the kool-aid.
spareaxe 6 days ago
*reassessing
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
*falling of snow in Buenos Aires in summer
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
*like fashion victims
suddenlyitsobvious 1 week ago
God gifted men with reason. Your reason is to tear down religious beliefs of many religions. Let me reverse it on you and ask you Could the Book of Mormon Be true? What then? Could the Christian Bible be true? what then? you die it is too late for you. You cannot claim nativity in front of the lord. At least belonging to a religion that teaches doing good works in your life I will die a satisfied man even "if" (sake of argument) there is no god. If u die and we were right uh-oh.
eatersofdead 1 week ago
@eatersofdead I think you meant you can't claim naivety in front of your sky daddy. Why would this god give you a mind to reason with then when you come to the logical conclusion that he doesn't exist he tortures you forever? What kind of loving is that? Why would he want someone like you who didn't use the gift of intelligence he was given he just believed what he was told, mainly because he is scared? What kind of God wants robots to love him?
okltsply 1 week ago
@okltsply You are thinking of it the wrong way, He is not going to make you suffer it will be you that suffers. We as Mormons believe through divine providence through the profit Joseph Smith that there are 4 Different places we can go when we die, with many different levels of glory in them. Even if you go to the highest degree in the terrestrial world you will still be in some sort of hell (the hell that you created) while you had a mortal body on this earth.
eatersofdead 4 days ago
@eatersofdead Its funny that you spelled prophet, profit......
Tokerkels 1 day ago
@okltsply Claiming naivety in front of the lord, is that everything down here manifest that of him. You will not be able to claim you didn't know there was no god. It will not be a suitable answer for him. There are two gods in the Bible, there is a loving forgiving, caring god, and there is the spiteful, vengeful god. I could ask you the same thing about Jesus? How could he (Being God) let his son go through what he had to endure? What kind of God would do that?
eatersofdead 4 days ago
@eatersofdead The kind that wanted a first hand perspective of the life he puts his children through. The unselfish type... the loving type... the perfect type....
Tokerkels 1 day ago
@okltsply He suffered more than any man ever will.
eatersofdead 4 days ago
@okltsply I do fear God. If not returning to him and ending my salvation here upon this time I would be fearful of him to put me in to an eternal place away from truth and light. Would that not scare anyone if you truly think about it? I am Mormon, I am not the best by far I have many spiritual scares, however my testimony is strong in him, I have not been told that. I know that. I must have been one of the few people who has been graced with the power of knowledge of such.
eatersofdead 4 days ago
@eatersofdead If God is all loving, why would you need to fear him?
mikelheron20 3 days ago
@mikelheron20 it was never meant in the phrase be afraid, the term or word fear was used or implied as "respect" him not be afraid of him.that is something that confuses many people and has to be looked at carefully. however if you choose to be afraid its all good lol. By the way I am a God fearing man.
eatersofdead 1 day ago
@eatersofdead Ok. Now redefine jealous" for me - as in "I am a jealous God."
mikelheron20 1 day ago
@okltsply Back to the hellish spot. How would you feel "IF" you went to one of the lower kingdoms? Yet knowing for eternity you had the chance to make it back to your "True" potential? It is yourself (Everyone's self) that is making their own hell upon this earth in this time. We are obviously on some sort of Journey in this life that leads us somewhere. I just don't accept when we die there is nothing we die and the worms eat us and blackness forever and ever. What a depressing world.
eatersofdead 4 days ago
@eatersofdead We don't buy that after life is just darkness because eternity has been placed upon our hearts and the hope of it was installed in our minds. Yet for some reason, people fear this eternal darkness. How can darkness come where only light has shined? How can something come out of nothing? Unconsciousness cannot form consciousness. Your right were on a journey, together, only the grand consciousness knows where were going.
Tokerkels 1 day ago
Moses wanted to see other worlds. The lord said to him be content with this world. After he saw all the inhabitants of this world. He said he was nothing. He divided water and was a great man called of God. If that does not put it into perspective I don't know what will. Also we all die, that time clock is ticking for us all. Death has our number, The one true thing in life you can count on is that you (everyone) is going to die. (A mortal death). "Strike me down, so that I can become more power
eatersofdead 1 week ago
Oh my gosh human suffering. Out of all the sufferings we "ALL" suffer in life. Some more than others. Yet when I think it is all said and done and we are standing on the other side we will look back, even if we suffered greatly we will look back and say. That wasn’t so bad. If we were on God's Level and had a glimpse of eternity and that we could understand it. All the sufferings in the world would not matter.
eatersofdead 1 week ago
how come you didnt post the video of the guy giving you the kharon?
eatersofdead 1 week ago
The thing that makes Mormons the true religion is that of the priesthood. It goes to the base of our theology. I will "die" believing this. As Muslims would say the same thing about their religion. Why not go ask a Muslim this question. Do it over in Iran or the Sudan. I would like to see their response. You are asking and setting up these missionaries on purpose to prove a point. I all ready see where u are headed and I am only 3 min in to the video. All this proves is u premeditate these meeti
eatersofdead 1 week ago
@eatersofdead What was the Mormon response at the Mountain Meadows Massacre? Showing some real love there huh? What about all the other incidents in Missouri and everywhere else you nuts have stirred up trouble? All religion is barbaric and primitive. Blood sacrifices,oppression and subjection of women, and in the case of Christianity/Mormonism the delusion that they are all about love and morality. Religion in America has been brought kicking and screaming into behaving"morally"
okltsply 1 week ago
@okltsply Brought kicking and screaming by secular humanism not any superior morality as you people think you possess.
okltsply 1 week ago
The middle ground is America. America was based of religious freedom It is in our first amendment Freedom of religion not freedom from religion. I am not sure what you mean by middle ground. Everyone has a choice to make. I don't see Mormons pointing guns at people saying join us or die. I do see Muslims do that though. Religions can come together not in theology but to support one another in freedom of religion. There is only 1 true church. It is up to the individual to find their own answers.
eatersofdead 1 week ago
Hence today religious bigotry is fading in favour of neodarwinistic bigotry and authority-fetishism: NOTHING has changed, at least certainly not for the better. We now have a society of robotic, fascistoid, cynical, unthinking, intellectually incompetent and scientifically illiterate amoral neodarwinistic believers who are into obeying authority. In all fairness, it's rather a regression, even compared to Catholicism...
suddenlyitsobvious 1 week ago
...incompetence and passivity and hence requires a SCAPEGOAT, unto which he can load all these unsavoury inferiorities. Too bad the typical programmed neodarwinist doesn't spend a bit more time investigating SCIENCE, rather than contenting himself with slurs at religiously programmed people, but I guess that could be a bit too much of an effort, intellectually...
suddenlyitsobvious 1 week ago
...are in dire need of a diversion. They're ALL TALKING about the 'retardedness' of religion, like brainwashed parrots. What they don't realize is that they RELIGIOUSLY BELIEVE anything OTHER authroities tell them. They're just as bigoted as the bigots they scorn, which is precisely WHY they detest them so much: they're PROJECTING. Since the neodarwinist atheist is a brainwashed victim incapable of independent thought, he needs to get rid of all the garbage inherent in his intellectual...
suddenlyitsobvious 1 week ago
@suddenlyitsobvious It's wong to sum up everyone that bashes religion as obeying "anything OTHER authorities tell them." Wouldn't a person willing to question religion be more likely to question authorities outside of religion? If you are referring to science that is simply acknowledging proven fact and this helps mold our understanding of reality and should be discredited.
RossetaStoned91 1 week ago
@RossetaStoned91 not*
RossetaStoned91 1 week ago
@RossetaStoned91
' It's wong to sum up everyone that bashes religion as obeying "anything OTHER authorities tell them' You're obviously not very familiar, or simply haven't noticed, that's there's a very loud effort against religion going on in the public sphere, and that this effort is being spearheaded by PROMINENTS, guys like Hitchens, Dawkins.
They are professionally bashing religion while aggressively promoting science and this general dynamic is what influences many people...
suddenlyitsobvious 1 week ago
@RossetaStoned91
...into taking very aggressive stances against religion, while of course equally fawning open-mouthedly at science.
' Wouldn't a person willing to question religion be more likely to question authorities outside of religion' Not at all, especially since they haven't managed to question religion by themselves at all, they've merely followed the times, like fashio systems.
suddenlyitsobvious 1 week ago
@RossetaStoned91
' If you are referring to science that is simply acknowledging proven fact '
This is a religious and inaccurate statement. Science is swarming with unproven assumptions and outrageous concoctions -such as 'dark matter'- soon taken for fact, when they are simply inventions to make models work.
suddenlyitsobvious 1 week ago
@suddenlyitsobvious Ok, there's no emperical evidence to support your claim that people that question religion wouldn't question other authority. I don't know where you're getting this theory that all people that question religion are just doing it to get on the band wagon. And wtf are you talking about that saying science is based on fact and research is a religous statement. They don't know everything and have to assume some with what scientists are given but science is..
RossetaStoned91 1 week ago
@RossetaStoned91
Ah, I see, you're a child still, so I'll be a nice guy and won't destroy you...THIS time.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious Naw, go ahead "destroy" me. But you are a fool if you discredit scientific evidence or claim that use of its facts is a religous issue. Science is a non-valued based study, which means no influence from religions or beliefs, only what is there and what can be proven.
RossetaStoned91 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
'Science is a non-valued based study, which means no influence from religions or beliefs, only what is there and what can be proven.'
Science is completely loaded with all sorts of metaphysical assumptions that are unprovable and/or unproven; to name but a few:
The universe must be understood mechanistically and atomistically, containing primary and secondary qualities (Galileo, Descartes), the former being defined as visible, observable, measurable or quantifiable,...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
(2)
...material and real,leading to objective knowledge and the secondary qualities are defined as invisible, non-observable, immeasurable or unquantifiable, immaterial & relatively unreal.
Matter being primary, it gives rise to mind as a secondary phenomenon, hence brains give rise to consciousness (awareness) wherefore the idea of an independently existing soul or spirit is a superstitious and erroneous fiction
So matter gives rise to mind in the course...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
(3)
...of biological evolution (emergentism, materialism) & brains give rise to consciousness (epiphenomenalism or mind-brain identity). Empirical knowledge can only be acquired through physical senses and their instrumental extensions; the observer can study world impersonally and separately from himself (objectivism).
Causes and explanations can only be physical - and upwards (positivism). Phenomena are understood through analysis of its parts (reductionism...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
(4)
...and atomism), purpose & meaning (why) are excluded from scientific analysis.
Evidence contravening this view is unthinkable and can be summarily dismissed. You're using the typical, vague slogans in a religious fashion, of science being
'evidence-based' and 'value-free' but above assumptions aren't value-free at all, nor
does the concept of 'evidence' mean quite as much as you 'think' it does.
Science simply formulates hypotheses, that could be...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
(5)
...for instance of the following kind:
A. Temperatures on earth are rising, or B. Temperatures on earth are falling.
Subsequently, scientists simply go about collecting observations.
The observation for instance of an uncommonly long dry spell in some area
can be added to the 'evidence' for hypothesis A, whereas the falling of snow in
Buenos Aires, an uncommon occurrence, can be added to the pool of evidence for
hypothesis B.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
(6)
Whichever of the 2 hypotheses is decreted to be fact, either one is supported by
evidence, and the real issue here is, what REALLY DETERMINES THE ONE THAT MAKES IT?
The answer is of course political, priorities, money-flows, adherence to convenient
dogmas and politically-correct dictates, and all kinds of stringpulling that
anyone not completely naive is aware of.
For instance, it is common knowledge that scientists who don't go by the anthropogenic...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
(7)
...global warming dogma simply don't get funding for their research. Hence climatologists go about seeking 'evidence' for the politically-correct hypothesis declared to be fact, while ignoring ll the other options. Hence they produce evidence that people like you subsequently take as PROOF for the hypothesis, never realizing or wanting to realize that you are merely buying into self-fulfilling prophecies based on really BAD SCIENCE that routinely violates...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
(8)
...all of its own professed principles. You BELIEVE whatever scientific authorities tell you exactly like a bible belt bigot believes his minister. There's no advanced personal processing involved, you simply accept on faith, fully trusting that science 'works' because after all, in the end, it has made computers and atomic bombs. Isn't that right, son?
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious Ok you're referring to highly debated topics that there is not much solid ground for. Such as dark matter, I'm guessing you include string-theory, global warming obviously. I am supporting the more or less concrete things like anatomy, structures of atoms, physics to an reasonable extent, psychology, etc. not these loose theories. Things like this that are no issue of political influence have gone through the scientific method and much scrutiny, things...
RossetaStoned91 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91 What you call 'more or less concrete things' have been developed in precisely the same manner I pointed out and were once themselves highly debated topics. It becomes difficult to see this after a few generations, since science and its institutions simply move on, and it is forgotten altogether by public AND scientists that a number of fundamental problems were never solved and the supposed 'facts' have in fact NOT been demonstrated to be fact.
This is basically the reason..
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...btw why science is constantly changing every single aspect of every single theory, always moving forwards with new elaborations, never going back to the point in time where the error occurred. If you look for instance at 'evolution', it has NOTHING to do today with Darwin's work.
All the found fossils that were problematic for the establishment because contradicting the evolutionary narrative were simply shelved in some drawers for decades. Basically, the...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...entire 'Cambrian explosion' found by Walcott in the early 1900s was sent to the Smithsonian and basically pretty much ignored, not to say covered up, for half a century, because INCONVENIENT. Same thing with geneticist Mendel's work: ignored for thirty years because deemed INCONVENIENT, couldn't be fitted in to the evolutionary narrative at that time. Even for such massive things as evolution, the REAL, ACTUAL dynamic simply is:
1. It is decided that evolution...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...is fact.
2. Whatever means possible are used -including blatant deception- to make evolution come true. A number of generations later, as ALL scientists basically go by evolution since the entire system is fundamentally intertwined with it today, it is simply taken for granted that 'evolution is true because countless scientists are involved and they've gathered lots of evidence'. People in society are subsequently being brainwashed by the likes of puppets like...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...Dawkins and basically by the entire system of politics, media, education, the entire bulk of society's institutions, that ONLY RELIGIOUS NUTTERS oppose evolution. That it's a question of 'church/belief versus science/evidence'. In reality, few people are intellectually equipped to question ANYTHING they are taught from the cradle, such as 'evolution'. They've been PROGRAMMED, CONDITIONED into it, and the problems surrounding this narrative are in fact MASSIVE.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious So you're questioning our whole educational system? That seems a bit paranoid. There has to be a good bit of solid proof in a lot of fields or we wouldn't have the technology and medicine we have to today or be able to further it. Evolution is basically accepted as truth but that's still one of those big, controversial issues. There are remains of humanoid creatures walking on 2 feet that have qualities of evolving stages. You've seen them right?
RossetaStoned91 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
'So you're questioning our whole educational system? That seems a bit paranoid'
Interestingly, as you see, your statements are NOT based on some kind of familiarity with the subject matter or scientific literacy. Don't take it personally but after about a decade and a half in the schoolbanks, you've learned how to read and write and count a bit and that's about it. In fact, the main message you've learned apparently is that some intelligent people are basically figuring..
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...out what's true and what's not and there's no reason to doubt them. In fact, doubting too much of what these people say is 'paranoid' -which is of course strictly speaking a PSYCHIATRIC term, meanin something must be wrong with someone's mental health were he to really question science or education. So have you learned to think for yourself, develop critical thinking skills, are you EXTREMELY CURIOUS about all the mysteries of life that you are now equipped...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...to uncover and discover thanks to your education? Or have you in fact been molded into an intellectually passive, religious person who really doesn't know anything about anything, and doesn't even realize this, has lost all curiosity about how things work, wouldn't even know where to start to figure anything out, and simply trusts the system works?
Have you ever wondered if it's REALLY the point of education to develop your mind?
Or could the purpose perhaps be...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...to DULL your mind, control you, condition you into a passive, unquestioning piece of cattle, a 'human resource' 'happy' to contribute to the wellfare of the collective and the competitiveness of the economy... Science has accomplished very sophisticated things in the engineering departments -thanks to its unlimited access to 'human resources' of course. Where its understanding of life, biology, mind etc is concerned, science is completely pitiful.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious Who are you? How do you know all this? Why should I believe what you said is true?
RossetaStoned91 6 days ago
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@RossetaStoned91
'Why should I believe what you said is true?' And here you have it: indeed, why should you BELIEVE? Your options are, you either believe someone more credible, or someone less credible, someone you don't know, so you figure it's probably best to not BELIEVE what he's saying. What your education hasn't managed to instill in you, is the awareness of YOUR OWN ABILITIES and processing skills. You don't have to BELIEVE anyone, and precisely...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...as this exchange started out, we have now come to the point where YOU are confirming that you are using the same RELIGIOUS faculties as the mormons: UNCRITICAL BELIEF. The entire point of being a human is getting to KNOW, which involves using one's own mind. If your mind is functional, you don't need to believe anyone or anything cos you can simply figure it out for yourself. By the time education is through with you, people are sooooooo discouraged that they...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91
...can hardly master the energy to even dare think such thoughts, that surely sound very strange! In fact, it sounds COMPLETELY CRAZY doesn't it?
Ha ha ha! using one's own mind, what a RIDICULOUS idea! What tinfoil-hattedness, what a arrogance!!
See?
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious If that's the case then everyone would have to start at damn near square zero. Plus the minds great, but humans constantly make false assumptions.
RossetaStoned91 6 days ago
@RossetaStoned91 'Start near square zero'
EXACTLY. Well, something still seems to be working alright!
It all needs to be connected and make sense within your OWN mind, only working with what YOU know is fact.
If this seems discouraging, there are great benefits but also great problems: it soon involves completely reassess everything in a manner not unlike Neo in the Matrix movie...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious That's a wierd feeling. I think I've been here before with drugs.
RossetaStoned91 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious
What an idiot. All educations start with indoctrinations. A young mind isn't capable of critical thinking. When you reach adulthood, science highly encourage critical thinking. There's a reason why science students have to do hundreds of hours of scientific experiments. Plus scientific shortcoming are constantly taught at school. See how you mentioned Mendel's work? you probably were taught about how his work were ignored for decades in a biology class.
HoboShotgun1 6 days ago
@HoboShotgun1
'What an idiot. All educations start with indoctrinations. A young mind isn't capable of critical thinking. When you reach adulthood, science highly encourage critical thinking' Aha, aha; Hmmm, indeed. So basically 'science highly encourage critical thinking' once people are indoctrinated.
Aha.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious
Yes. That's how society works. blame society.
HoboShotgun1 5 days ago
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@HoboShotgun1
The issue isn't dishing out the blame, nitwit. The issue is that if education is indoctrination, AS I WAS CONTENDING, and which prompted you to reply 'what an idiot', then I was right all along. YOU can't think and you don't even understand what critical thinking skills are. You just figure anything authority does, anything that's institutional, has basically got to be a good thing, and then you work your argument schizophrenically around that immutable social reality, like...
suddenlyitsobvious 5 days ago
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@HoboShotgun1
...a complete dimwitted clown -a sad clown though... If indoctrination is a prerequisite for education then there's a number of problems surfacing, aren't there Einstein? That you're too lazy & dull to see these issues is YOUR problem, but that you actually accuse those smart & evolved enough to realize what garbage 'education' is of being 'idiots', well, that is just something else! Read my posts again, apeman, & then yours: your posts are laughably substandard.
suddenlyitsobvious 5 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. Science when it comes to biology and life has grown leaps and bounds in terms of knowledge. We know the entire story of life all the way back to the first self replicating molecule and soon that mystery will be solved as well. Then there is all the advancements in medicines and surgeries, true you can credit some of that to recent electronic engineering but most of it is based on work on genetics
okltsply 6 days ago
@okltsply
'That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard.'
Would have helped if you'd quoted which one.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
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@okltsply
' We know the entire story of life all the way back to the first self replicating molecule and soon that mystery will be solved as well'
Who's 'we'? Are you in some cult?
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@okltsply
'Then there is all the advancements in medicines ' Though there's abundant food today in the West, incidence of sickness rising sharply, even millions of kids being simply...
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@okltsply
...medicated with very toxic pills for years on end for such 'conditions' as getting bored in class.
You're just praising your religion like an ignorant hippy praises his cult-leader.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@okltsply
'ignorant'
And really, are you that dumb? Just look at my posts, they've clearly been composed by an intelligent, literate individual, whereas you're just parroting a few dumb headlines.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
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@okltsply
'ignorant'
And really, are you that dumb? Just look at my posts, they've clearly been composed by an intelligent, literate individual, whereas you're just parroting a few dumb headlines.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
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@okltsply
'ignorant'
And really, are you that dumb? Just look at my posts, clearly composed by an intelligent, literate individual, whereas you're just parroting a few screamy headlines.
suddenlyitsobvious 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious ..like this I apply to my reasoning including that of religion. Sociology is probably noteworthy also. I do agree with you though that a lot of scientist researching these hot issues arre whores.
RossetaStoned91 6 days ago
@suddenlyitsobvious ..based on emperical evidence. Seriously, do yourself a favor and type in "Skewed views of science" and don't bother reply to me until you do.
RossetaStoned91 1 week ago
How interesting that even on this thread people are pushing science. Why does science need to be pushed IN OPPOSITION to religion? Science has been operating free of religious constraints for a few centuries now, so it's really bizarre so many neo-darwinists are jumping on the psychotic bandwagon promoted by sex-abuse victim R Dawkins: if youi want to be on the BRIGHTS team, you must bash religion. What's really goiung on here is neodarwinists can't push evolution on its own merits and...
suddenlyitsobvious 1 week ago
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Questions for PolsciStudent. What are you trying to prove with your videos? Why don't you show your face in your videos? Is your purpose to just bother people who have beliefs? Do you study up on how to catch people in a simple contradiction and just do it over and over? What are your beliefs about life? Do you really think you're more intelligent than all the people you're speaking to? Why does doing that make you feel good? Is it power? What do you as a person offer to society? - Jay
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Embarassing
TheReeseWitherfork 1 week ago
That HOOSIE-Girl in a black shirt: her arms are MOUTH-WATERINGLY LONG I sell my soul to outreach her forearm with MINE!
WildManChrisVEVO 1 week ago
every religion involves some kind of nutheads. if god is real, why doesn't he show himself? why does he always rely on so called "prophets" to spread his message?
nybombs 1 week ago
@nybombs dude. god does show himself. havent you seen him on a piece of toast yet??? haha
olgeiger 1 week ago
@olgeiger lol, best comment thumbs up
nybombs 1 week ago
Science is awesome. Embrace evidence. Ignore fantasy.
Celebrity729 1 week ago
2 BOBBLE HEADS!
SICKEMBOY760 1 week ago
This contributes precisely nothing to the question of religion and religious belief.
bayreuth79 1 week ago
@bayreuth79 Who said it was supposed to?
drgnfrc13 1 week ago
you hear of ex mormons, ex muslims, ex exct.. but never of ex christianity.
betopelotas801 1 week ago
@betopelotas801 That's because the vast majority of atheists have converted from Christianity, so that would be kind of redundant. That would be almost like referring to water as "ex-vapor water" lol. Btw, I'm an ex-Christian, myself, so now you've heard of one. ;)
drgnfrc13 1 week ago
@betopelotas801 im an ex Christian...
PDA522 1 week ago
@betopelotas801 im an ex-christian... and ive heard of many others...
tylowylo12321 1 week ago
haha, you guys can pull out a book, these guys can pull out a book, love it.
jprenderg 1 week ago 3
2 mormen missionaries....slid into my parked car in front of my house......these kids were scared shitless....yesterday....a car registered to the "president of the state of lethbridge"....now my insurance company.....says their insurance company does not exist...my wife and I treated these por kids who were a 2000 miles from home...like they our boys.....And yet....I think The bible is very stupid.. irrelevant.. complete non-sense.....but they could not believe how nice we were....
wrathchild11 1 week ago
taking candy away from a baby.....He asked for answers and got poo-poo
wrathchild11 1 week ago
The question is stupid. Why would they know where the middle ground is? Religion doesn't have to account for everything God does. These guys said " I believe" plenty and didn't speak in absolutest terms. You just wasted your and their time.
It's like you went out their expecting a certain kind of religious person and when you didn't find them you didn't adapt to your new situation. I can't believe you even posted this. You look like a fool.
monokhem 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God.
(Epicurus) 33 A.D.
jpyz450f 1 week ago
god ive never heard so many people dance around answering a question without answering it,
stahleface 2 weeks ago
good job with the videos man, staying polite and not condescending.i actually didnt even know what mormonism was till 2009 when the first missionaries came to Holland, and then came to be very close with a mormon girl, went to japan, got into this exact same debate with american missionaries there. tried to stay as open-minded as possible, but in the end, the answers you get are just too much based on belief without evidence. no matter how weird things sound. I'm agnostic too
Serko070 2 weeks ago
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My son was persecuted by a teacher who was mormon at public school. The teacher told him to ask me if he could go with him over the weekend to see some temples in St. Louis. After the history teacher who was mormon got an answer he did not like, he let the rest of the students go in his class and poked my son repeatedly in the chest all cause his DAD would not let him go on the temple trip. Good News...very next day that teacher was terminated.
Tomateho 2 weeks ago
Best question was the 'will you admit there's a chance you're wrong'
That's the difference between them (theists) and us.
Thanks I'll be using that in the future
HugeJohn51 2 weeks ago
the 'common ground' is the freedom of religious expression. you can disagree, argue, debate. to force religion on another crosses the line. a common ground in terms of ideology need not exist.
this applies to basically every other ideology humans adhere to. where is the common ground between communism and capitalism? democracy and fascism? how do we stop men from killing to advance these structures? and if we can't find a middle ground, does that render them all fundamentally bankrupt?
reggiejax 2 weeks ago
it's easier to contradict them if you compare what is in the Bible to what is in the Book of Mormon... you can argue against the bible but its a lot easier to argue against mormons who say they they believe in both things and contradict themselves and act like a cult in so many ways...
Claytron830000000000 2 weeks ago 4
The irony is if you read texts from JWs, Mormons, Baptists and so on, they will all tell you a story about someone praying for god's true religion. Then, wham, here comes a jw or mormon or baptist and God has answered their prayers.....Yet all of these religions think the other will die at the end time, or not get the full glory of god. Is god sending people from all these religions, or are they just crazy?
2017Downtown 2 weeks ago
it sucks that everyone who knows anything is on the internet instead of fixing the worlds problems
anomyouscoward 2 weeks ago
The Bible is a more sure Word of prophecy with documented history leading up to current world affairs backing it up all the way. Prophecy validates God's Word. Jesus is the middle ground and the answer to all problems. He came down to teach about priorities and the spiritual laws that govern life. If you apply them and live for God and others then they will work all the time. It's all about restored relationship with love as the motivator and faith as the activator. God can totally be proven!
Ramohog 2 weeks ago
im an atheist and the first guy with the tie deserves my respect. he seemed to try to promote peace of mind to people and general peace believes aside i like the dude
len6nar42 3 weeks ago 2
@len6nar42 I agree.Isn't it right to say "A truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent"?Sometimes the attitude of the speaker can be quite important(if not as important) as the message itself.I think Mormonism doesn't make sense even compared to other organized religions,but in terms of the attitude, he is more respective than the guy throwing questions in such a disturbing manner.
kugakuga 3 weeks ago
I'm not a Mormon but I'm already feeling bad for the young mormon missionaries.They supported the mission with their part time job money n 2 years of their lifetime for sth they believe to be "the truth",n wat they get mostly is harassment.They need time n respect to listen to different opinions.While I'm unhappy about Mormons knocking on my door,I'm equally disgusted by this agnostic guy's approach.He seems to be the radical "terrorist" atheist.:[
kugakuga 3 weeks ago
@kugakuga he's not a terrorist if he actually asks them legitimate question dude.... Sure its a bit sad that young mormon people are being treated like dirt somewhere, but why should they be embraced? Their beliefs are fucked up! everything in the book of mormon (their bible) is stuff that can be proven otherwise. fuck sake they think that jesus was born in Mississippi! everything points to him being born in Israel (although i'm an atheist) there is enough evidence of his birth. so please. -.-
FreakyShow95 3 weeks ago
@FreakyShow95 U made an important point on the largely ignored historical evidence.It's quite horrible even when Mormon archeologists mess up the origin/history of Egypt.It's ok to question the religion,but the attitude is without respect.Approaching with camera n askin prepared,out of context questions to embarrass the other is arrogant n rude.If i were to film n question religious ppl,i'd have the gut to show my face side by side like I'm actually talkin to a person,not a target
kugakuga 3 weeks ago
@FreakyShow95 We may keep in mind that sociology n psychology reveals when an organization feels disrespected n humiliated as a group,ppl feel more united instead of questioning their group.Smart ppl can always make ways to legitimize n reconcile their belief n evidences to make sense for them.Isn't it strange that Mormon missionaries face this type of questions every now n then n still find their faith firmer?Perhaps ppl themselves decide how to interpret the same information
kugakuga 3 weeks ago
The video titles r arrogant enough 2make an agnostic to frown.Ppl don't murder due to religion more than they do for cultural practices.Considering ppl cannot be perfectly unbiased,the so called"middle ground"may not exist.Let's c honor killing in Afghanistan for instance,since it's not taught in Islam,why does it happen?Honor killing is practiced way b4 Islam n is deep rooted in Pashtun tribal culture.To claim religious beliefs to be the sole source of fundamentalism is not quite balanced.
kugakuga 3 weeks ago
Native americans called the creator "grandfather" and loved and respected everything on our planet and never wasted or polluted.
Way2Kool7Deuce 3 weeks ago
These guys are young, and they are repeating, as best they can, what they have been taught. In addition, they are probably not used to any sort of intellectual inquiry or engaging in rigorous debate. They have always been with people who mostly think the same way. If you want to see an interesting move on Mormon missionaries and their way of seeing things, check out "Latter Days."
RCSVirginia 3 weeks ago
ignorant mormon hoods........ if a mormon is elected for president ill lose all hope for america
prawler929 3 weeks ago 2
wrong!! in utah all they tell you is go to church read the book of mormon lala WE READ Galatians 1:8
monstered66 3 weeks ago
blue-tie guy gave a pretty good answer. if there is a god, who is merciful, all good souls will be accepted into whatever form of heaven there is. the existence of other holy books doesn't imply that there isn't a god. the only thing it suggests is the universality of the human mind. fyi, i'm agnostic and believe that aliens genetically engineered humans - i advocate no religion, and i think most atheists are dicks.
ianharwood 1 month ago
@ianharwood Do you have any evidence towards your alien theory?
edcjunkie 1 month ago
@ianharwood Yes, people who base their beliefs on evidence and ask for evidence are dicks. They're always so judgmental, calling an entire group of people dicks because they are just dicks like that. I believe that the only difference between humans and chimps is a two percent difference in alien genes. That makes more sense than being made out of clay by a sky lord who sacrificed himself to himself to save everyone who believes in him and eats his flesh and drinks his blood.
beeeefcurtains 1 month ago
Is this a school? On state property? In a secular nation? Get the fuck outta here!!!
Dslater417 1 month ago
Rofl if that girl to his right decides the great lizard king of the dirtmound is the true religion of man this kid's hormones will compel him to believe it.
majorjockitch 1 month ago
Wow, you kinda derailed them there. Obviously though, because they aren't full adults and they haven't been nearly as "trained" as they will be, they won't have any hard answers to the questions, and they will be more open to suggestion.
However, the indoctrination is still present. Asking them why they are Mormon is the same as asking why are Mormon's so often from or living in Utah. It's because that's because their parents are Mormon, and that's all they know in life.
indigothecat 1 month ago
@indigothecat
This is a great point. Mormonism is all they really know. Most of these people spend their whole lives surrounded by and interacting with other Mormons. It is their whole world to a large extent.
RCSVirginia 3 weeks ago
@RCSVirginia Mmhmm. I do have to say, though, that I can tell this candid video caught everyone off-guard, including the person who "owned" the Mormons. He claimed he wasn't trying to dog on them, but he was definitely making everyone uncomfortable.
Way back in Elementary School days, we were taught by the Guidance Counselor that this is NOT an appropriate time to confront someone on difficult subjects.
indigothecat 3 weeks ago
@indigothecat
I do understand your point, but Mormon missionaries should be trained by the Mormon church to be prepared for tough questions, even when they are caught off guard, as in this video.
RCSVirginia 2 weeks ago
@RCSVirginia They were still quite young, not quite as indoctrinated, and of course, it doesn't matter how trained they were. When they go door to door, they are completely ready for any throw-back, as they have had time to mentally and emotionally prepare, and the encounters are much more private.
indigothecat 2 weeks ago
I've never seen a Mexican Mormon good find sir
jaymes081 1 month ago 2
@jaymes081 He’s a 2nd class Mormon…according to Mormons.
FantomasXZ7 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There's no good reason to believe it...and NO, Personal experiences, feelings, dreams, supposed eyewitness accounts or a whole bunch of followers doesn't count as evidence...
enyskept 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There's no good reason to believe it...and NO, Personal experiences, feelings, dreams, supposed eyewitness accounts or a whole bunch of followers doesn't count as evidence...
enyskept 1 month ago
Mormonism taught that black people went to hell. In 1978 they said god changed his mind to appeal to the public.
T H E R E
I S
N O
G O D ! ! !
FireFightWrestling 1 month ago
this video is sublime. Good work, sir.
bookguy12000 1 month ago
Poster is an idiot.
jediclone 1 month ago
Here's the middle ground that they should have talked about: all of us have an inherent yearning for the Truth. All of us have an inherent yearning to make this world better off for our having lived in it. Even without RELIGION, people try to make good choices, and the other faiths of the world have tried to why we're supposed to make good decisions and how we're supposed to go about doing that.
glazedwindow 1 month ago
@glazedwindow *tried to explain why
glazedwindow 1 month ago
Triple kill
xAIRx666 1 month ago
"we don't convince anyone to join any true religion." what the f***?? Aren't mormons the ones who always convince and harass people walking down the streets to join their "true" religion?
Myobokuuzan 1 month ago
I look for truth, just like you brother.
maciasterence 1 month ago
I used to be a skeptic man, very skeptic about life. A true nihilist and existentialist. I believed in the absurd. But then something happened to me that I cannot explain. These things are spiritual. Because of the spiritual things, I believe in God. I believe in Mormonism because it is the most perfect faith of all other religions. I read the Qur'an, the Popol Vuh and several other codices; the sum of all of the features of each individual book is not at all on par with mormonism.
maciasterence 1 month ago
What's dangerous is when we decide that our secondary obligation becomes primary.
maciasterence 1 month ago
Because I can prove that we are here scientifically, (Brain in vat is just too much skepticism for me) I have a responsibility towards you first. But because I have faith (hope for things which cannot be scientifically know, but felt through intelligence), I have a secondary obligation to my faith. As long as that faith is in-line with my first obligation, everything is quite alright.
maciasterence 1 month ago
Augustine's premises are false. They are limited to certain applications and not for a total, universal use. What all religions teach, except for satanism which is egoistic, is a true sense of altruism. I am a Mormon, but I am a humanist first. We all must need to recognize how important it is to be here for each other. I do not know scientifically that God exists, but I do know that you and I are both here.
maciasterence 1 month ago
Religion: Nothing but a bureaucracy between man and God.
DontTreadOnMe213 1 month ago
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@DontTreadOnMe213
"Religion: Nothing but a bureaucracy between man and God."
Nice try.
Religion: Nothing but a bureaucracy.
That's more like it.
supowit 1 month ago
I was agnostic, but I realized I believe there is probably no God. An atheist does not necessarily believe there is no chance of a God or Gods, thats just their first belief beyond that of the fundamental uncertainty of reality. I am an Atheist who also recognizes the potential for other truths.
doublephantom2 1 month ago
All religious debates lead to a confession of faith. Maybe it's because they truly think their god is watching them.
redshark618 1 month ago
they knew what you were trying to do, you weren't really looking for answers, just looking to argue and prove them wrong. the fact that you were obnoxious and stubborn doesn't mean you owned anyone. they answered your questions pretty well and honestly, and were respectful. pretty impressive I thought
mammothorbust 1 month ago
Fucking christ dude you couldn't find another term for middle ground? These people are obviously too retarded to understand the question. Stop fucking around with them.
Relvolver64 1 month ago
Dude if anyone owned anyone they owned you, the only reason you turned the camera off is because they were owning you
badgerbeastwolf 1 month ago
"If it's true, then why isn't everybody Mormon on the earth?"
In Christ's time, was everyone Christian? In Moses' time, why did the Israelites deny the commandments of the lord even with so much physical evidences? God gave all of us our agency(the gift to choose.) Even though the Book of Mormon will be proven true,it is up to a person whether they choose to believe its truth or not. I'm a little bit disappointed that the missionaries haven't pointed out that people have their own agencies.
mormondefender26 1 month ago
@mormondefender26 imho, It all boils down to prophecy, specifically, fulfilled prophecy. Were the prophecies of Isaiah, Daniel, Zechariah et al proven true in the birth, ministry death and resurrection of Yeshuah, YES. Has the bible proven to be historically as well as prophetically accurate YES. Did Mohammad and Joseph Smith (and a slew of others too) make predictions that totally failed to pan out--you betchya. They both claimed utterly false "histories" since disproved.
Auralae40 1 month ago
@Auralae40 No one has "disproved" anything yet. Further evidences have been found. Thank you and have a nice day.
mormondefender26 1 month ago
And just because you talk a lot doesn't mean they got owned. trololololololol.
mormondefender26 1 month ago
*sigh* they were trying to be nice, guys. They didn't want to be offensive.
And I think they answered it pretty good. For a guy who asks a question every 5 seconds. I would answer your questions pretty good.
mormondefender26 1 month ago
There is no middle ground. What reinforces the truth of Christianity is life, death, and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah. From Genesis to Revelation the bible points to the redemptive message of God's plan of salvation for humanity. 66 books and maybe around 40 authors, that in itself is amazing. The Koran 1 author and the Book of Mormon 1 author.
ToBeSaltnLight 1 month ago