Brian is wrong christianity does not teach that you can do whatever you want and Jesus will forgive you, because christianity teachs (as so it is true) that if you are a christian you will love God so much that you will not enjoy sin like we did when we were in our old nature. But when we are redeemed God is continually sanctifing us and making us a new creation and we long to do what is right.
JESUS CHRIST, HIS CATHOLIC-UNIVERSAL-APOSTOLIC CHURCH, SACRAMENTS, THE BIBLE, MIRACLES, HEALINGS, ST. MARY APPARITIONS, MESSAGES FROM HEAVEN, SIGNS IN 2011 ARE NOT A MYTHOLOGY BUT THE REALITY !!!
I know that propaganda has been used on humanity since the dawn of civilization. If you can figure out that Santa Claus doesn't exist, then you can also very easily understand that God does not exist except as a tool to control the population.
@impactproformance How do you prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist? He could be out there somewhere, right? It's possible, right? I know, because everybody collectively accepts that Santa Claus doesn't really exist... in the same way that millions of people collectively believe in God. Each person must individually choose to accept objective evidence over collective truth manufactured by fear and ignorance, and few people are willing to do that... at least openly.
@troyecarter Agreed, but if you think about people do that with science as well.Google is very useful if they don't know the answer to a problem they look it up and get a bit of information they think will make a valid point.Appearing that they are intelligent when really it just prove's they can read and it's so easy to lie on the internet, what's stopping me from saying "i'm 100 year's old and have been studying the bible for 90 of them"?
@troyecarter so weird how some Christian interpret a made up bible as well. Just the other day I was arguing that some guy said the gay verse in the bible was a mistake...
@troyecarter Even if you study the bible, you still will not get the correct interpretation because the copies have been bastardized and re-written so many times, who knows at this point the original intent of the writers, especially given the fact that most of the canons we don't even know who truly wrote them.
Cameron and his partner are by no means good debaters, logicians, or apologists, but the two atheists strike me as two people who astronomically fail to understand what they are arguing against. They have an extremely elementary understanding of Christian theology. Argue against Christianity as the Christians understand it, not as whatever straw man makes your job easier.
Amazingly it is the highly educated who have been screwing the world, not the ignorant. Or maybe it is the learned who are actually illiterate. Noah's ark was built by the illiterates of that time, while the learned laughed.
It scares me when people say that without God there can be no morality. It makes me question their sanity. The fact that, as adults, they feel they need to be told what to is good and bad by some supreme being.
How could some of the scientists permit themselves to make a claim that would necessitate knowledge as extensive as the scheme of the universe, when their knowledge of the total scheme of being is *close* to zero, when confronted with a whole mass of unknowns concerning this very earth and tangible, lifeless matter, let alone the whole universe?
Do scientific discoveries and knowledge cause such a scientist to conclude that matter, *unknowing and unperceiving , is his creator and that of all beings? No?
Then how can the duped and the brainwashed atheists and some of the scientists delude themselve and *believe* that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
What is called science by the science-worshippers of the present age and regarded by them as equivalent to the sum total of reality, is simply a collection of laws applicable to a single dimension of the world. The result of all human effort and experimentation is a body of knowledge concerning a minute bright dot comparable to the dim light of a candle-surrounded by a dark night enveloping a huge desert of indefinite extent
All praise is due to ALLAH, the Lord of the Universe.
atheism is biggest flaw is that they are overly skeptical that you can only have science alone or faith alone but did you ever consider that you can have both? I mean like you could use religion to why we got here and science to explain how we got here so why are both sides so stubborn to expect both?
@livingdeadgrl18 Yes it is subjective and many commentators have also expressed the same thought on this thread. I was looking at her boobs all the time. I didn't hear or care about what she was saying. Who can take her seriously in a very serious conversation?
@ibzzibrahim Just because many people believe one thing, doesn't make that belief any more valid. I heard what she was saying because I am not obsessed with tits. If you couldn't focus on what she was saying that really is more your problem than hers.
@livingdeadgrl18 My comment is not any reflection on you personally. I meant that if anyone claims that this woman's well endowed chest and revealing dress was not a distraction must be kidding. One doesn't have to be obsessed. She is deliberately flaunting her assets. I found it strangely out of place in a discussion about existence of God. I am sure she is a well-read and intelligent woman.
I don't know why they didn't answer something like, " For all of recorded human history, virtually everyone has been religious, and strong nations have been bullying weaker ones. Apparently, whatever morals supposedly apply in the case of a god are ineffective. Atheism does not promise better, but it's hard to imagine worse."
i hate when religious people try to use moral values as an excuse for god. look at other country that dont believe in god like china. they dont run around killing each other well just as much as they do here in america.
Respond to this video... Like tax evasion gets you shot in china. That kind of compassion?. You really don't know much about modern China do you. Pol Pot, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, all atheistic countries, all filled with so much compassion & morals that they exterminated their own people. You mean those atheistic countries. Well I suppose that's ok then. Wake up before it all happens again and then you'll be one of the first to say, how could you have done anything to stop it.!
@Pendu068 Although I don't agree with your statement that all those countries are atheistic (Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge certainly was, Nazi Germany was a mix of Protestant, Catholic and Nordic Paganism) they didn't kill their own people in the name of Atheism. They killed for political reasons, namely extremist socialist and nationalistic ideas. There have on the other hand been many cases of people killing for a religion. Either way this sort of tit for tat argument leads no where.
They do more harm than good for if they are not led by the SPirit they do not and cannot represent God. The mind set on the flesh is death and hostile towards God.Rm8.6
b. God becomes their father and disciplines christians when they resist His Spirit. c. The law is necessary bc people desire to do evil. God gives christians His SPirit so that they might want to love each other.
Kirk is using his money and his fame to be a spokes person for God. I just wonder whether God has called him or whether he called himself to do this. Same with other christians like even Sarah Palin, they exalt themselves to these postitions but arent led by the Spirit.
Kirk shoulod back off and grow more in wisdom. He has little wisdom from God and is a poor respresentation of God.
1. Survival of the fitest does rule in an atheistic mindset. If someone is of no benefit to society then they would be killed or let die by the strong. She states the only reason to not kill was if that killing was not beneficial to the whole. Well what if it was?
2. Christians do have freedom to do as they please but: a. God now lives in then and changes their desires
Ray Comfort looks at Kirk Cameron like: "Son, I am disappoint." I look at Ray Comfort and think: "Motherfucker, grow a goddamned brain." I love those instances when he's talking and stops, looks up realizes his logic is flawed, and mumbles off into more vacuousness.
I'm sorry, but it seems like they picked the dumbest Atheists they could find to which to debate. They are not particularly articulate or well researched. All of these questions asked to them were better answered by smarter and better spokespersons for Atheism like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. Just quote them and you'll blow your competition out of the water!
I can imagine Christopher Hitchens rephrasing the question thus:
"Assume a deity made this world, such that the strong dominate the weak, and let us also assume we consider Him a loving and just God. How does a religious person dare rebel against such a divine order? How can the pious justify doing what free-thinking atheists might do, in using their own minds to discern through logic and reason what one's proper actions should be, rather than defer without question to this sacred authority?"
uh, this guy has no idea what evolution is. we have found plenty of actual transitional fossils, and not to mention living transitions.... the PLATYPUS! duh, moron
The fundamental problem of argumentation which atheists have is the assumption that all forms of knowledge, truth and reality can be reduced to the scientific method of material observation - this is grossly mistaken. Knowledge such as metaphysics, ethics and morality (even the presumptions of the scientific method itself) are beyond the limits of sound scientific inquiry. When atheists have the ability to explicate every aspect of the universe, galaxies & alternate dimensions they can argue
the atheist side sound uneducated, they could have found much more articulate ppl to argue their case! Glad they didn't though, because I sure love Jesus. :)
@sonykroket how observant! I am brainwashed. Thank you so much for revealing the TRUTH to me. so...now what? No one to pray to? No one to confide in? No need to do anything except for what benefits me, because hell, no one cares anyway right? But then...there's that one part. The part where I talk to Christ and He talks back. The part where he fills every single emotional and physical need i have. hmmmmm. no thanks. I think brainwashed is better. have fun with that empty thing tho.
@sonykroket that is origional. good job. really. you got up at 7 am to tell me that on a Sunday becuase you are so worried about the brainwashed humans? no...you're still up aren't you? At any rate, I'm going to enjoy my family and day off and probably do something really nice while you sleep your worthless day away. Don't judge me. don't presume to think you have any clue. I'm sick of wicked ppl that just make fun of Christ. That's your perogative. But you're going to eat every word.
@lesrenee2078 We should be more like those people who revere Christ and molest children, right? Or we can be like 99% of the prison population, who are religious, and be as non-wicked as them, right?
Statistics show that religious people are the most wicked people on Earth.
We're WAY past the times where you could say someone is wicked just because they don't believe in your religion. Yet you religious people continue to live in the dark ages, and you wonder why people make fun of you.
@GhostOfAStranger1 well, you probably never will ( no offense ) but if you want to see the next best thing just google kasey grant! Yup, that's her alright, getting 12 inches of penis stuffed inside her
Once you assume a creator and a plan, it makes us objects, in a cruel experiment, whereby we are created sick and commanded to be well. And over us, to supervise this, is installed a divine North Korea - greedy for uncritical praise from dawn until dusk and is swift to punish the original sins with which it so tenderly gifted us in the very first place. However, let no one say there's no cure redemption indeed, is promised, at the low price of the surrender of your critical faculties.
@FryderykFChopin One of the best quotes of all time from one of the greatest thinkers of all time. This my friends is how to Hitchslap. Chopin, you are a scholar with great taste!
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
Alls i know is that those breasts are real, I can see them, touch them and taste them and will make me feel good inside and put a smile on my face, God would never give me such pleasure.
This athiest woman and her man totally do not grasp the concept of sin and repentance. For that matter, neither do Ray and Kirk. Put simply, yes, should you commit a sin and wish for forgiveness, you shall be granted it if you ask for forgiveness in the name of Jesus Chist. However you must in your heart commit to not commiting the sin again. It is a way for people who have sin to regain hope that they will be able to come into Heavenly Father's kingdom. It is not meant for the serial sinner.
@pjmr71 how do you know that someone feeling bad is caused by a chemical reaction? have you ever seen this chemical reaction? how do you know that these chemical reactions even exist? Better yet, accepting on faith that science has discovered these chemical reactions, how do you know that they are a cause instead of a result of an outside stimulus?
@JourneytoCalvary I will repeat, any scientific assertion can be undermined. They are all falsifiable, any scientist will tell you what will undermine it. Please, please tell me what will disprove your assertions and remove your faith? When pjmr asked why other religions, with greatly divergent views and morals, are not correct he was told "red herring" and "my faith" and god pre-dates the semitic people -- that last contradicts the bible so by what right does he renounce the "revealed word"?
@balliolboyjohn First of all, I I didn't say "red herring" to anyone, I don't think I have ever used that phrase. You assume that I am taking the same position as the other person and you are assuming wrong. God pre dates all people and if you think that is a contradiction the the Holy Word of God then you must study it more thoroughly. You claim that you have seen chemical reactions take place, and that's great but 99% of the population hasn't and they accept on faith w
@JourneytoCalvary The pre-dates was a response to HM (he of terrible spelling) he said, in response to someone else that the chinese did not pre-date the semitic people. I explain that, if you believe the great big magic hogwarts book then that would be so. However, if you look at history you will see he is wrong. Now you will likely tell me "you have faith in history" or "why rely on science"---again, I can be disproved. A lot of questions for you, please answer them. Delay = looking up!
@balliolboyjohn No Delay = you not paying attention to my responses. You realize that when you attack the Bible you are making absolutely no progress in this debate. A genetic fallacy is committed when one attacks where/who a given argument has come from instead of making a meaningful attempt arguing the subject at hand. You are just full of fallacies aren't you?You are wrong, even science records that the oldest human remains hae been found in N. Africa, close to where the Garden of Eden was
@balliolboyjohn You claim that you have seen chemical reactions take place, and that's great but 99% of the population hasn't and they accept on faith what is being told to them while the atheist claims that it is completely absurd for anyone to believe in anything that can't be empirically proven. Special pleading is the name of this game and it results in a fallacy of the argument.
@JourneytoCalvary Nothing fallacious. 99% of the population can come and see the reactions. We can show them to them. We can prove them and, they could potentially be disproved. That is not "faith" that is a belief or understanding based on rational evidence that can be shown and tested. I tell people, show me something I believe based on no evidence or where persuasive evidence cannot be shown and I will no longer believe. That is called rationality.
@balliolboyjohn you still didn't answer my question. How do you know, can you prove, that these chemical reactions are not a link in the chain of causality? How can you prove to me that they are not the result of an outside or another stimulus?
@JourneytoCalvary I can show you the release of oxytosin into the blood stream in response to a number of stimuli. I can show you people of "faith" can gain peace and tranquility and release of hormones when they think or speak of that faith. But, that is true of all faiths. if subject to an external stimuli that is your god would he bring the feeling of peace to one who contemplates the hindu monkey god or to a suicide bomber that he does to a praying catholic?
@JourneytoCalvary So to directly answer your question, as with oxytocin (neuromodulator). I can show you many external stimuli that cause release of it and many others. We can use a control group setting. Again, it is falsifiable, you could show me that it is caused by a god. If so, he sends some "feel good" hormone feelings to people who are doing some despicable things, but, the bible endorses genocide, slavery and maltreatment of women. Then comes questions: which god and why?
@balliolboyjohn rationality and empiricism are logically incompatible. Proven certainty is too high of a standard for anyone to acquire all of their beliefs. If you would let your presuppositions down you would see that there are not many things that can be universally known for certain. Everyone accepts things on faith in their every day lives. I don't believe in predestination, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ will go to heaven. and yes the Bible says that Mary had never known a man when J
@JourneytoCalvary People believe things based on evidence but it can be disproved. Religious faith cannot. I said nothing about mary not knowing a man before jesus was born; that is the virgin birth. Imacculate conception was the doctrine that mary herself was immaculately conceived (so that mother of god was not born of original sin). It comes to something when I have to tell a theist what it is the churches teach!
@balliolboyjohn It comes to arrogance when you make an assumption based on an incomplete answer. I was stating that Jesus was born of a virgin but you are attacking a claim that I have never made and that my church does not teach. Attacking a claim that hasn't been put forth in an argument is also called attacking the straw man and results in the dreaded Straw Man Fallacy. You really should research your arguments further before committing all of these informal fallacies.
@JourneytoCalvary I read your answer same as everyone else did, he never asked you about virgin birth, he asked about immaculate conception and you said: "and yes the Bible says that Mary had never known a man when J"-----so no informal fallacy or straw men---you did not know and now you are lying about it! Why answer about mary not knowing a man "when J" when question was about her birth. Arrogance, lies, they are not his, they are yours and you got SCHOOLED!!!!!
@JourneytoCalvary Why begin with an "and yes" when it is something you were not asked. Anyway, answer questions then....RCs say you are going to hell!
@JourneytoCalvary Sorry for my arrogance, if I misunderstood you. I asked if you believed in the immaculate conception because it is found nowehere in the bible. Your response, i concede cut off was "and yes the Bible says that Mary had never known a man when J". I did not feel I created a straw man. I did not ask about virgin birth, so am not sure why you would be speaking of it, unless you were confused. I posited a hypothesis and you are attempting to falsify it: pure reason at work. Progress
@JourneytoCalvary Ouch, not knowing about immaculate conception? That had to hurt. Same with the hormones being the same for people of all faiths. If you do not believe in pre-destiny then on what evidence do you reject that Baptist / Calvinist precept? They would say you are going to hell?
@pjmr71 you once again are confused. Not all Baptists are Calvinists. I reject it on the basis that I have not found it to be scriptural. Doesn't hurt as much as you are thinking, I am very used to atheists trying to twist my words around and make me look like I am lying, you are barking up the wrong tree here. And yes, I was stating that I believe in a Holy Ghost conception but not the immaculate conception doctrines of the Catholic Church.
@JourneytoCalvary I really don't think that you have a clear understanding of church doctrine. Calvinists/armenians believe in different doctrines concerning the manifestation of grace. I have never found a Calvinist that will tell you that you are going to hell because of unbelief in predestination. That is only one point out of five in traditional Calvinist teachings and not something that Calvin ever proclaimed by any means to be a necessity for salvation. Doctrine doesn't save. Jesus Does.
@JourneytoCalvary You have rejected Calvinism. You do not agree with tenets of Roman Catholicism, yet all read the same book but have vastly differing views. A few centuries ago, the Catholics burned people at the stake for wanting to read the bible in english. Jefferson wrote the Va statute because the congregationalists and baptists were at each other's throats. Yet to you there is one way. There are many christians who call you heretic; I am right on this. Again, why are muslims wrong?
@pjmr71 Once again, you are confused about what I have told you. I have not rejected Calvinism, I have stated that I don't believe in predestination. There are FIVE POINTS TO CALVINISM, some of which I don't have a problem with. Muslims are wrong because they follow the teachings of a power hungry man. Muhammad actually urged people to go to the Word of God for answers though. Surah 10:94 of the Quran states this fact.
@JourneytoCalvary On what authority do you say that those who do not believe in god will burn in hell are wrong? Surely you know that many christians have used book of john as injunction for this: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."---This is interpreted differently by many denominations. Why are others wrong and you are right? What if you are wrong?
@pjmr71 I understand the faith I was ordained in, very well, and learned many other denominations. The point is this: we now, as you show, have "religion light". Do you know how many were tortured, shunned, burned, exiled for rejecting tenets of a predominant faith where they resided. Rejection of central tenets was called heresy, some churches have removed that from their lexicon but it existed. I speak often with Baptists who say "don't believe in Christ: off to hell to burn"
@pjmr71 you are placing blame on me because I am a Christian for these atrocities that have been committed and I can deal with that. But I am going to share an account with you that I think may help you. Rev. Charles Templeton was a Canadian Evangelist that organized Youth for Christ International. He hired a Carolina boy named Billy Graham as his first full time evangelist. One day he saw a picture on the front of a magazine that depicted a young child starving to death in a 3rd world country
@JourneytoCalvary I don't accuse you of any "atrocities" (that at the time were deemed moral because of the revealed word). I merely state that there is so much contradiction, different interpretation, close to 200 contradictions in NT alone that people try to "explain" differently. Billy Graham became an horrendous anti-semite, among other things. I studied religions very, very hard and realized none could be explained and all contradicted. Once you find reason and science religion will fade!
@pjmr71 you must study more and you will find more contradictions and problems with scientific theories than you will ever allege to find in the Bible. That rationale doesn't hold water. It would almost seem that you are an existentialist. "God doesn't exist, but, if he does, what impact does it have on my life?" A famous atheist once said: "If ever someone claimed to be an atheist, it would be for moral reasons not intellectual reasons."
@JourneytoCalvary Have you ever seen someone say they are "blessed" because of a good game, low interest rate or quick trip to work. If they are blessed then surely that starving child is damned. Religion is serfish yet egotistical at the same time. I am unworthy, I must beg, I was born in sin BUT the world was made with me in mind and if I pray god will bless me. Won the lottery = blessed, lord answered me. Child dies, cursed? No, lord moves in mysterious ways! Neither right nor moral.
@pjmr71 religion is a man made concept and is very selfish and in most cases egotistical at the same right. I am not going to explain something that someone else may or may not hypothetically say to me, this is ridiculous. It is very sad when babies die, but, these babies are going to an eternal home of peace where there is no starvation, disease or poverty. You are selfish sir, you see these things as an excuse for you to be angry at God. Read ecclesiastes chp. 3 and tell me how God taking
@JourneytoCalvary You said before you don't know where people go when they die; only those who accept jesus. Yet now they go to "eternal home of peace"? Were you lying before or now? What is more likely, that a god kills kids (some "without grace" capriciously) or that because of nature or people, kids and adults die? I don't hate god; there is NO GOD! No denomination is right, CORRECT, they are all wrong. I hold no anger for that which does not exist. I resent people who lie. I am done here!!
@pjmr71 you are the one that is saying these kids are dying without grace, not anyone else. God takes people home or they deserved to die because they were weak anyway. Hmm I believe that the Christian view sounds better than the evolutionists' theory.
@JourneytoCalvary Once again, it is not pjmr who says they die without grace. It is different branches of your crackpot sect. Those who preach original sin: "bathed in original sin". Those who preached about "limbo". Those who, like you say only way to heaven is through jesus and then say that kids who die go to a better place (even those who are jews, muslims or unbaptized). Contradiction, upon contradiction. Like pjmr, I cannot debate with one who will contort and distort at will. Farewell!
@pjmr71 Don't you find it at least a little ironic that you say that you resent people that lie and yet if it were not for the moral code in the Bible, you would have no inclination at all that it is wrong to lie?? I think that it's so ironic it's almost satirical.
@JourneytoCalvary Wow! Without bible no-one would know it was wrong to lie? So, by your account, until they hit Mount Sinai the hebrews had no idea it was wrong to lie? Ever read any Confucious or Egyptian history, pre-dates the bible without which we would not know it was wrong to lie. So, by your argument, you just destroyed Judeo-Christian claim on morality and replaced it with some eastern promise. That is irony! Quit while you are behind!
@pjmr71 taking these babies out of this world makes him terrible. Maybe you are the one with your priorities mixed up, trying to use something that is so terribly sad here on this earth and turning it into an attempt to justify your walking away from God. There are many different denominations, not one of them is right. If man could have gotten it right the first time, we wouldn't have needed Jesus. So we just have to ask the Lord to send us where he wants us and can use us most effectively.
@pjmr71 again, you are making an inquiry of something that I did not say. You have a very bad habit of forcing your assumptions on me, while comical, it is not productive. I didn't say at any time in this conversation that people who don't believe in Jesus Christ won't go to hell. I answered a question directly, that God is Fair and Just and will do what is right. I don't know where anyone will go when they die, but, I know the prerequisite for going to heaven is believing in Jesus Christ
@JourneytoCalvary If you do not believe in the immaculate conception then by what right do you call catholics heretics? If you believe the only way to heaven is belief in JC then you believe those who died in Auschwitz, who must have begged for god to save them, are burning in hell, yet any guard who confessed and accepted JC is in paradise? What of the muslims who died in the Tsunami, born (by god's design??) in ignorance of him. Are they in hell? Do you call that moral? I long to know.
@pjmr71 you are confused, I haven't called catholics heretics. You need to argue with the correct person on this issue. Your arguments are more narrow minded than most people that I have debated with. The fact that I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven does not automatically mean that everyone else in going to hell. Thats a Non Sequitur. God is a fair God, God is a just God and the words of Abraham still hold: "Should not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
@JourneytoCalvary I am not the one saying you accuse them of heresy, sir. You should become more learned in the doctrines. If you say you reject the claims of that church you become a heretic in their eyes and to them you have accused them of heresy. I am glad to hear that you reject hell as a concept for those who have not accepted jesus. Could you tell me where these people go? In 2007 the pope renounced limbo, but you do not believe that.
@pjmr71 no, you should pay more attention to what I am telling you. you asked me by what right I consider these people heretics. And the answer, once again, is that I haven't accused anyone of being a heretic. That is an orthodox concept. I have stated what I believe not called anyone a heretic. And I never said that I believe people will/will not go to hell that don't believe in Jesus Christ when they die. I said that God is just and fair and has promised that all will have a chance to believe
@JourneytoCalvary My question points to the lunacy of religion, in this case the RC faith. You did not say they were heretics but must explain why they would say you called them a heretic. It is a question you would be asked by them. You will deny saying it; they will say you did. One cannot ever win with religion and christians all read from the same book. Don't believe in the IC, catholics say you will go to hell. Don't believe only way to heaven is through JC. RC + some Baptists say hell.
@pjmr71 and he said "How could a good God let this happen?" He became agnostic, left the ministry and lived out the rest of his life an angry and hateful person toward all the people and the Lord he once loved and served. When he was asked about Jesus on his death bed he stated: "All I can tell you about the Savior that I once new is that I miss him dearly." I don't know your situation but I do know that once you have tasted the goodness of God it is impossible to deny it.
@HalleluyahMAtt how do you know that someone feeling bad is caused by a chemical reaction? have you ever seen this chemical reaction? how do you know that these chemical reactions even exist? Better yet, accepting on faith that science has discovered these chemical reactions, how do you know that they are a cause instead of a result of an outside stimulus?
@JourneytoCalvary Yes, I have. My Ph.D was based on studying "these things". There are chemicals that are released into the blood stream that make us feel good, and make us feel bad. Problem for all the god botherers out there is that when new science disproves some BS in the "magic book" they say "can you see it, how do you know, you pre-suppose" SPOT ON. Falsifiability is the basis for a sound argument. You can disprove scientific assertions. Tell me, what could disprove your faith?
@JourneytoCalvary I think you've misunderstood me. Atheist believe that conciousness, mind, reason, are only random chemical reactions.If this so, how can reason and intention even be real catagories? They believe this because there is (they say) no intention in the universe.Yet how can one claim say their is no reason when they are reasoning that very point?We know, however there is reason, thus we know their is intention in our creation.I have much more faith in the Christ I know than science.
@HalleluyahMAtt Sorry, that is babble. People here have told you many times that there are patterns in the universe. Scientists believe that. Scientists seek the cause of the patterns, you say there is reason therefore there is a god and he cares what I do. You ignore what people are say to you and just keep trying to reinforce yourself with mis-spellings, misunderstanding and concepts you don't understand. Rationalists say they do NOT know everything. You say you do. Good for you. Go away.
@balliolboyjohn What you consider to be extraordinary seems to be relative. That fact that every major culture in the history of man kind has believed in a higher power would indicate that the claim "there is no God" would be the extraordinary claim of the two requiring extraordinary reasoning. The big bang theory isn't contested in all circles just when. If someone didn't teach us to be morally conscious, how did we get that way??
The question of why Jesus rather than some onther God is a whole other line of discussion. An empty tomb and great deal of historical evidence is one start. Yet experiential knowledge of that very real god is the greatest of evidences. You may counter with some question predicated on materialist presuppositions, but what makes those presuppositions valid? We measure the empirical by sensory means, why not the metaphysical by means that transcend sensory experience?
@gpwnedable the purpose of a debate is to sway the other side, if atheists are going to debate then they need to have sufficient reasons to back up their claim in an attempt to prevail. And yes, it is a claim, even if it is a claim that they don't believe in something it is nevertheless still a claim that is open to criticism and scrutiny just like the Christian claim that God exists.
@JourneytoCalvary Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Comfort says that there is a universe hence someone must have built it. He rejects the big bang while failing to understand the man who discovered the big bang was a Roman Catholic priest. Even if you assume Comfort is right about a man in the sky making the universe it is then a huge leap for him to say that man cares if we steal, murder, marry people of our own sex---for that he needs his bronze age book written by....men!
ray and kirk got massacred, imagine if they went against dawkins in harris
mzic666 5 days ago
These atheists man...they don't make them like they used to. Dawkins and Hitchens would KILL Cameron and Ray in a debate.
rmj15mu 1 week ago
the red head does porn now...your welcome
guitaHer099 1 week ago
Where are Hitchens and Dawkins when you need them?
bskee001 3 weeks ago
I wonder if Kirk n Ray will ever just come out, when Ray first speaks the way Kirk looks at him is very suspicious
AlvahWatson1 3 weeks ago
The atheist couple looks like they're on an infomercial for Extenze.
TheAzureSky1 3 weeks ago
Brian is wrong christianity does not teach that you can do whatever you want and Jesus will forgive you, because christianity teachs (as so it is true) that if you are a christian you will love God so much that you will not enjoy sin like we did when we were in our old nature. But when we are redeemed God is continually sanctifing us and making us a new creation and we long to do what is right.
kasting124 3 weeks ago
You would think that kelly would want to dress more professionally, especially to a debate covering such an important topic.
riverstory87 1 month ago 2
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JezusSlave 1 month ago in playlist Deb: Does God Exist or Not ?
The last half is Kirk Cameron lying nonstop! Just someone shut this idiot up!
BeBoBli 1 month ago
5:23 Kirk Cameron gets owned
Spaceman2451 1 month ago
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Spaceman2451 1 month ago
the big bang wasnt actually an explosion noob.
Sp33dyBeanz 2 months ago
Kelly is the porn actress Kasey Grant.
Nashhinton 2 months ago
I know that propaganda has been used on humanity since the dawn of civilization. If you can figure out that Santa Claus doesn't exist, then you can also very easily understand that God does not exist except as a tool to control the population.
Crust218 2 months ago
@Crust218 please feel free to share this information it seems only you have, and tell us, how do you prove God doesn't exist?
impactproformance 4 weeks ago
@impactproformance How do you prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist? He could be out there somewhere, right? It's possible, right? I know, because everybody collectively accepts that Santa Claus doesn't really exist... in the same way that millions of people collectively believe in God. Each person must individually choose to accept objective evidence over collective truth manufactured by fear and ignorance, and few people are willing to do that... at least openly.
Crust218 4 weeks ago
horses and donkeys produce mules
DoIReallyNeedAChan 2 months ago
@DoIReallyNeedAChan
And your point?
BeBoBli 1 month ago
How can people think they know the correct interpretation of the Bible without studying it?
troyecarter 2 months ago 4
@troyecarter Agreed, but if you think about people do that with science as well.Google is very useful if they don't know the answer to a problem they look it up and get a bit of information they think will make a valid point.Appearing that they are intelligent when really it just prove's they can read and it's so easy to lie on the internet, what's stopping me from saying "i'm 100 year's old and have been studying the bible for 90 of them"?
riverstory87 1 month ago
@troyecarter so weird how some Christian interpret a made up bible as well. Just the other day I was arguing that some guy said the gay verse in the bible was a mistake...
BenFosterism 2 weeks ago
@troyecarter Even if you study the bible, you still will not get the correct interpretation because the copies have been bastardized and re-written so many times, who knows at this point the original intent of the writers, especially given the fact that most of the canons we don't even know who truly wrote them.
dallased25 2 days ago
I Believe....that I want my thing placed between that chick's pair of massively inflated funbags.
m29p29 2 months ago 2
@m29p29
m29p29 2 months ago
"If there is no God everything is permitted"
Then how come I can't even speed a bit without getting pulled over?
theBartone9119 2 months ago in playlist GOD DEBATES
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Checkmate Christian - Got Ya! Type the title below into the YouTube search box above.
"Pac Biggie - Holy Bible - Genesis is FALSE according to Yale University!"
pacbiggiecom 3 months ago
That chick needs to be on a porn set
rudemood2011 3 months ago
Why does it matter how we got here ? We're here...that's all i care about. Am I weird to think that ?
hi123808 3 months ago
Cameron and his partner are by no means good debaters, logicians, or apologists, but the two atheists strike me as two people who astronomically fail to understand what they are arguing against. They have an extremely elementary understanding of Christian theology. Argue against Christianity as the Christians understand it, not as whatever straw man makes your job easier.
CAndrewI 3 months ago
Amazingly it is the highly educated who have been screwing the world, not the ignorant. Or maybe it is the learned who are actually illiterate. Noah's ark was built by the illiterates of that time, while the learned laughed.
ibzzibrahim 3 months ago
It scares me when people say that without God there can be no morality. It makes me question their sanity. The fact that, as adults, they feel they need to be told what to is good and bad by some supreme being.
livingdeadgrl18 3 months ago
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@livingdeadgrl18 ...some supreme being....
___
The atheist Delusion!
How could some of the scientists permit themselves to make a claim that would necessitate knowledge as extensive as the scheme of the universe, when their knowledge of the total scheme of being is *close* to zero, when confronted with a whole mass of unknowns concerning this very earth and tangible, lifeless matter, let alone the whole universe?
1tabligh 2 months ago
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Do scientific discoveries and knowledge cause such a scientist to conclude that matter, *unknowing and unperceiving , is his creator and that of all beings? No?
Then how can the duped and the brainwashed atheists and some of the scientists delude themselve and *believe* that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?
1tabligh 2 months ago
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What is called science by the science-worshippers of the present age and regarded by them as equivalent to the sum total of reality, is simply a collection of laws applicable to a single dimension of the world. The result of all human effort and experimentation is a body of knowledge concerning a minute bright dot comparable to the dim light of a candle-surrounded by a dark night enveloping a huge desert of indefinite extent
All praise is due to ALLAH, the Lord of the Universe.
1tabligh 2 months ago
atheism is biggest flaw is that they are overly skeptical that you can only have science alone or faith alone but did you ever consider that you can have both? I mean like you could use religion to why we got here and science to explain how we got here so why are both sides so stubborn to expect both?
thebigleowbosiki 3 months ago
that chick in red, i wouldn't mind doing her.
fthis1234567 3 months ago
What is this woman doing dressed like a slut in a serious conversation?
ibzzibrahim 3 months ago
@ibzzibrahim What you consider to be "slutty attire" is subjective.
livingdeadgrl18 3 months ago
@livingdeadgrl18 Yes it is subjective and many commentators have also expressed the same thought on this thread. I was looking at her boobs all the time. I didn't hear or care about what she was saying. Who can take her seriously in a very serious conversation?
ibzzibrahim 3 months ago
@ibzzibrahim Just because many people believe one thing, doesn't make that belief any more valid. I heard what she was saying because I am not obsessed with tits. If you couldn't focus on what she was saying that really is more your problem than hers.
livingdeadgrl18 3 months ago
@livingdeadgrl18 You got to be kidding yourself.
ibzzibrahim 3 months ago
@ibzzibrahim How am I kidding myself exactly? I am a straight woman, ergo I am not obsessed w/ breasts as would be a teenage boy.
livingdeadgrl18 3 months ago
@livingdeadgrl18 My comment is not any reflection on you personally. I meant that if anyone claims that this woman's well endowed chest and revealing dress was not a distraction must be kidding. One doesn't have to be obsessed. She is deliberately flaunting her assets. I found it strangely out of place in a discussion about existence of God. I am sure she is a well-read and intelligent woman.
ibzzibrahim 3 months ago
@ibzzibrahim Again, what you think is revealing is entirely subjective. I would've personally draw the line at a set of pasties, but that's just me.
livingdeadgrl18 3 months ago
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Pendu068 3 months ago
I don't know why they didn't answer something like, " For all of recorded human history, virtually everyone has been religious, and strong nations have been bullying weaker ones. Apparently, whatever morals supposedly apply in the case of a god are ineffective. Atheism does not promise better, but it's hard to imagine worse."
eventhisidistaken 3 months ago
i hate when religious people try to use moral values as an excuse for god. look at other country that dont believe in god like china. they dont run around killing each other well just as much as they do here in america.
xxLilJXxX 3 months ago
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Pendu068 3 months ago
Respond to this video... Like tax evasion gets you shot in china. That kind of compassion?. You really don't know much about modern China do you. Pol Pot, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, all atheistic countries, all filled with so much compassion & morals that they exterminated their own people. You mean those atheistic countries. Well I suppose that's ok then. Wake up before it all happens again and then you'll be one of the first to say, how could you have done anything to stop it.!
Pendu068 3 months ago
@Pendu068 those atheistic countries? germany? & russia? shows what you know.
xxLilJXxX 3 months ago
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@Pendu068 Actually dumbfuck Hitler was Catholic, his soldiers went into battle with "Got mit uns!' on their uniforms. Moron
bartyfarslar 3 months ago
@Pendu068 Although I don't agree with your statement that all those countries are atheistic (Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge certainly was, Nazi Germany was a mix of Protestant, Catholic and Nordic Paganism) they didn't kill their own people in the name of Atheism. They killed for political reasons, namely extremist socialist and nationalistic ideas. There have on the other hand been many cases of people killing for a religion. Either way this sort of tit for tat argument leads no where.
danielmalpollitt 3 months ago
That Woman's voice is Hell.
mcfearlessme 3 months ago
They do more harm than good for if they are not led by the SPirit they do not and cannot represent God. The mind set on the flesh is death and hostile towards God.Rm8.6
j919or 3 months ago
b. God becomes their father and disciplines christians when they resist His Spirit. c. The law is necessary bc people desire to do evil. God gives christians His SPirit so that they might want to love each other.
Kirk is using his money and his fame to be a spokes person for God. I just wonder whether God has called him or whether he called himself to do this. Same with other christians like even Sarah Palin, they exalt themselves to these postitions but arent led by the Spirit.
j919or 3 months ago
Kirk shoulod back off and grow more in wisdom. He has little wisdom from God and is a poor respresentation of God.
1. Survival of the fitest does rule in an atheistic mindset. If someone is of no benefit to society then they would be killed or let die by the strong. She states the only reason to not kill was if that killing was not beneficial to the whole. Well what if it was?
2. Christians do have freedom to do as they please but: a. God now lives in then and changes their desires
j919or 3 months ago
Ray Comfort looks at Kirk Cameron like: "Son, I am disappoint." I look at Ray Comfort and think: "Motherfucker, grow a goddamned brain." I love those instances when he's talking and stops, looks up realizes his logic is flawed, and mumbles off into more vacuousness.
dustindo 3 months ago
If she would promise not to speak, cause he voice is simply unbearable.....well yes I would do her!!!
915buck 3 months ago
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I'm sorry, but it seems like they picked the dumbest Atheists they could find to which to debate. They are not particularly articulate or well researched. All of these questions asked to them were better answered by smarter and better spokespersons for Atheism like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. Just quote them and you'll blow your competition out of the water!
yourztruIy 3 months ago
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yourztruIy 3 months ago
I want to tackle and spackle that fire crotched sexbomb!
TheIronomega 3 months ago
That girl is hotttttttttt damn
radelgratereaux 3 months ago
I can imagine Christopher Hitchens rephrasing the question thus:
"Assume a deity made this world, such that the strong dominate the weak, and let us also assume we consider Him a loving and just God. How does a religious person dare rebel against such a divine order? How can the pious justify doing what free-thinking atheists might do, in using their own minds to discern through logic and reason what one's proper actions should be, rather than defer without question to this sacred authority?"
DrCruel 3 months ago
She has been hiding those bazoomers for the whole debate then whips them out at the end. What a way to sum up. Cop these Crocoduck suckers.
HitMeQuick 3 months ago in playlist Kirk Cameron Ray Comfort vs. Atheists on ABC
uh, this guy has no idea what evolution is. we have found plenty of actual transitional fossils, and not to mention living transitions.... the PLATYPUS! duh, moron
guineapiggyman 3 months ago
I think the moderator should be non bias. Dosnt seem so to me.
BarryE1958 3 months ago
@BarryE1958 martin bashir is a dick all the time. hes a muslim AND a scientologist! like, wtf?
guineapiggyman 3 months ago
maan fuck morality I wanna fuck you
MrOmarr1991 4 months ago
Who's the lady... Anyway would marry me!!!
tupakcaneck 4 months ago
lol, Kirk Cameron is a mental midget.
endthedisease 4 months ago 9
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The fundamental problem of argumentation which atheists have is the assumption that all forms of knowledge, truth and reality can be reduced to the scientific method of material observation - this is grossly mistaken. Knowledge such as metaphysics, ethics and morality (even the presumptions of the scientific method itself) are beyond the limits of sound scientific inquiry. When atheists have the ability to explicate every aspect of the universe, galaxies & alternate dimensions they can argue
shieldsff 3 months ago
Cameron has smoked too much crack it appears.
mmissinglink 4 months ago
Thrinaxadon- it is halfway between a mammal and a reptile. That is just one of many inter-species fossils that have been found.
Mermaid4321 4 months ago
@Mermaid4321 that's what we call an amphibian. it's extinct now with the rest of the dinosaurs. nice try though. another perhaps?
lesrenee2078 4 months ago
the atheist side sound uneducated, they could have found much more articulate ppl to argue their case! Glad they didn't though, because I sure love Jesus. :)
lesrenee2078 4 months ago
@lesrenee2078 you are uneducated. jesus doesn't love you. get over it.
TMarche 4 months ago
@TMarche MIT 2003 Masters in Science and Microbiology. uneducated? you're statement really isn't worth the time, but thanks for the laugh.
lesrenee2078 4 months ago
@lesrenee2078
You sound brainwashed
sonykroket 4 months ago
@sonykroket how observant! I am brainwashed. Thank you so much for revealing the TRUTH to me. so...now what? No one to pray to? No one to confide in? No need to do anything except for what benefits me, because hell, no one cares anyway right? But then...there's that one part. The part where I talk to Christ and He talks back. The part where he fills every single emotional and physical need i have. hmmmmm. no thanks. I think brainwashed is better. have fun with that empty thing tho.
lesrenee2078 4 months ago
@lesrenee2078
LOl if you claim jesus is talking to you you should seek professional psychiatric help
sonykroket 4 months ago
@sonykroket that is origional. good job. really. you got up at 7 am to tell me that on a Sunday becuase you are so worried about the brainwashed humans? no...you're still up aren't you? At any rate, I'm going to enjoy my family and day off and probably do something really nice while you sleep your worthless day away. Don't judge me. don't presume to think you have any clue. I'm sick of wicked ppl that just make fun of Christ. That's your perogative. But you're going to eat every word.
lesrenee2078 4 months ago
@lesrenee2078
Im sick of people that force their fairytales down peoples throat and people who judge others because of imaginary friends
Hey, that wouldn't be you, would it?
sonykroket 4 months ago
@lesrenee2078 We should be more like those people who revere Christ and molest children, right? Or we can be like 99% of the prison population, who are religious, and be as non-wicked as them, right?
Statistics show that religious people are the most wicked people on Earth.
We're WAY past the times where you could say someone is wicked just because they don't believe in your religion. Yet you religious people continue to live in the dark ages, and you wonder why people make fun of you.
ninjajesus81 4 months ago
fake or real or who cares?
donateatoe 4 months ago in playlist religious debate
I would totally thumb her up
andlyndav 4 months ago 2
I agree with tits
kraqore79 4 months ago 5
The reduction of the universe to a single being and the expansion of that even to God ,this is love.God cannot exist independent of creation.
nedbless 4 months ago
Kasey Grant
bigwillytits 4 months ago
Martin Bashir is supposed to be moderating, not arguing for either side that fuck.
amindbody 4 months ago
The host is so biased. He's clearly religious.
megaharuko25 4 months ago
I want to make her scream "Oh God"
Nizzemancer 4 months ago
God...if you're up there, make her clothes disappear.
Nizzemancer 4 months ago 4
When God gave her tits, he just kept on giving.
WiseGuy02 4 months ago 4
I like how when big tits and her buddy bring up a completely valid point, Kirk ends up with a great deer in the headlights look and cant even speak.
knightofdreamz 4 months ago
Man I wanna fuck that chick
GhostOfAStranger1 4 months ago 24
@GhostOfAStranger1 she's a pornstar now, her name is kasey grant
Freethinker12341 4 months ago
@GhostOfAStranger1
Spoken like a true atheist.
mcfearlessme 3 months ago
That Guido is RUDE.
mcfearlessme 3 months ago
@GhostOfAStranger1 well, you probably never will ( no offense ) but if you want to see the next best thing just google kasey grant! Yup, that's her alright, getting 12 inches of penis stuffed inside her
CecilWellington 3 months ago
@GhostOfAStranger1 If you have a few thousands dollars you can lol
jarvisda 3 months ago
@jarvisda LOL can't believe she's in porn. I know what i'm gonna do later on tonight >__>
GhostOfAStranger1 3 months ago
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Pendu068 3 months ago
@GhostOfAStranger1 Smart and beautiful, and she knows it, and I love it.
JesterIMC 3 months ago
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fantang7 4 months ago
Where does Nightline find these people?
fantang7 4 months ago
Damn she is hot!
narhem123 4 months ago
Once you assume a creator and a plan, it makes us objects, in a cruel experiment, whereby we are created sick and commanded to be well. And over us, to supervise this, is installed a divine North Korea - greedy for uncritical praise from dawn until dusk and is swift to punish the original sins with which it so tenderly gifted us in the very first place. However, let no one say there's no cure redemption indeed, is promised, at the low price of the surrender of your critical faculties.
FryderykFChopin 4 months ago
@FryderykFChopin One of the best quotes of all time from one of the greatest thinkers of all time. This my friends is how to Hitchslap. Chopin, you are a scholar with great taste!
balliolboyjohn 4 months ago
You can tell the christians who post this and similar videos because they *always* disable comments....or only allow comments after 'approval.'
I'm I glad I am not a christian/jew/muslim/hindu/etc. Those people are slaves and sheep.
firewallx 4 months ago
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 4 months ago
Alls i know is that those breasts are real, I can see them, touch them and taste them and will make me feel good inside and put a smile on my face, God would never give me such pleasure.
jimmy88ere 4 months ago
This athiest woman and her man totally do not grasp the concept of sin and repentance. For that matter, neither do Ray and Kirk. Put simply, yes, should you commit a sin and wish for forgiveness, you shall be granted it if you ask for forgiveness in the name of Jesus Chist. However you must in your heart commit to not commiting the sin again. It is a way for people who have sin to regain hope that they will be able to come into Heavenly Father's kingdom. It is not meant for the serial sinner.
StevenVerd 5 months ago
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StevenVerd 5 months ago
If you want evidence that God exists, or are interested in 9/11 search Jonathan Cahn 1 - Harbinger the Warning, on youtube here.
IwillhonorGod 5 months ago
@pjmr71 how do you know that someone feeling bad is caused by a chemical reaction? have you ever seen this chemical reaction? how do you know that these chemical reactions even exist? Better yet, accepting on faith that science has discovered these chemical reactions, how do you know that they are a cause instead of a result of an outside stimulus?
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary I will repeat, any scientific assertion can be undermined. They are all falsifiable, any scientist will tell you what will undermine it. Please, please tell me what will disprove your assertions and remove your faith? When pjmr asked why other religions, with greatly divergent views and morals, are not correct he was told "red herring" and "my faith" and god pre-dates the semitic people -- that last contradicts the bible so by what right does he renounce the "revealed word"?
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago
@balliolboyjohn First of all, I I didn't say "red herring" to anyone, I don't think I have ever used that phrase. You assume that I am taking the same position as the other person and you are assuming wrong. God pre dates all people and if you think that is a contradiction the the Holy Word of God then you must study it more thoroughly. You claim that you have seen chemical reactions take place, and that's great but 99% of the population hasn't and they accept on faith w
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary The pre-dates was a response to HM (he of terrible spelling) he said, in response to someone else that the chinese did not pre-date the semitic people. I explain that, if you believe the great big magic hogwarts book then that would be so. However, if you look at history you will see he is wrong. Now you will likely tell me "you have faith in history" or "why rely on science"---again, I can be disproved. A lot of questions for you, please answer them. Delay = looking up!
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago
@balliolboyjohn No Delay = you not paying attention to my responses. You realize that when you attack the Bible you are making absolutely no progress in this debate. A genetic fallacy is committed when one attacks where/who a given argument has come from instead of making a meaningful attempt arguing the subject at hand. You are just full of fallacies aren't you?You are wrong, even science records that the oldest human remains hae been found in N. Africa, close to where the Garden of Eden was
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@balliolboyjohn You claim that you have seen chemical reactions take place, and that's great but 99% of the population hasn't and they accept on faith what is being told to them while the atheist claims that it is completely absurd for anyone to believe in anything that can't be empirically proven. Special pleading is the name of this game and it results in a fallacy of the argument.
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Nothing fallacious. 99% of the population can come and see the reactions. We can show them to them. We can prove them and, they could potentially be disproved. That is not "faith" that is a belief or understanding based on rational evidence that can be shown and tested. I tell people, show me something I believe based on no evidence or where persuasive evidence cannot be shown and I will no longer believe. That is called rationality.
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago
@balliolboyjohn you still didn't answer my question. How do you know, can you prove, that these chemical reactions are not a link in the chain of causality? How can you prove to me that they are not the result of an outside or another stimulus?
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary I can show you the release of oxytosin into the blood stream in response to a number of stimuli. I can show you people of "faith" can gain peace and tranquility and release of hormones when they think or speak of that faith. But, that is true of all faiths. if subject to an external stimuli that is your god would he bring the feeling of peace to one who contemplates the hindu monkey god or to a suicide bomber that he does to a praying catholic?
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary So to directly answer your question, as with oxytocin (neuromodulator). I can show you many external stimuli that cause release of it and many others. We can use a control group setting. Again, it is falsifiable, you could show me that it is caused by a god. If so, he sends some "feel good" hormone feelings to people who are doing some despicable things, but, the bible endorses genocide, slavery and maltreatment of women. Then comes questions: which god and why?
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago
@balliolboyjohn rationality and empiricism are logically incompatible. Proven certainty is too high of a standard for anyone to acquire all of their beliefs. If you would let your presuppositions down you would see that there are not many things that can be universally known for certain. Everyone accepts things on faith in their every day lives. I don't believe in predestination, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ will go to heaven. and yes the Bible says that Mary had never known a man when J
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary People believe things based on evidence but it can be disproved. Religious faith cannot. I said nothing about mary not knowing a man before jesus was born; that is the virgin birth. Imacculate conception was the doctrine that mary herself was immaculately conceived (so that mother of god was not born of original sin). It comes to something when I have to tell a theist what it is the churches teach!
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago
@balliolboyjohn It comes to arrogance when you make an assumption based on an incomplete answer. I was stating that Jesus was born of a virgin but you are attacking a claim that I have never made and that my church does not teach. Attacking a claim that hasn't been put forth in an argument is also called attacking the straw man and results in the dreaded Straw Man Fallacy. You really should research your arguments further before committing all of these informal fallacies.
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary I read your answer same as everyone else did, he never asked you about virgin birth, he asked about immaculate conception and you said: "and yes the Bible says that Mary had never known a man when J"-----so no informal fallacy or straw men---you did not know and now you are lying about it! Why answer about mary not knowing a man "when J" when question was about her birth. Arrogance, lies, they are not his, they are yours and you got SCHOOLED!!!!!
pjmr71 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Why begin with an "and yes" when it is something you were not asked. Anyway, answer questions then....RCs say you are going to hell!
pjmr71 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Sorry for my arrogance, if I misunderstood you. I asked if you believed in the immaculate conception because it is found nowehere in the bible. Your response, i concede cut off was "and yes the Bible says that Mary had never known a man when J". I did not feel I created a straw man. I did not ask about virgin birth, so am not sure why you would be speaking of it, unless you were confused. I posited a hypothesis and you are attempting to falsify it: pure reason at work. Progress
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Ouch, not knowing about immaculate conception? That had to hurt. Same with the hormones being the same for people of all faiths. If you do not believe in pre-destiny then on what evidence do you reject that Baptist / Calvinist precept? They would say you are going to hell?
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 you once again are confused. Not all Baptists are Calvinists. I reject it on the basis that I have not found it to be scriptural. Doesn't hurt as much as you are thinking, I am very used to atheists trying to twist my words around and make me look like I am lying, you are barking up the wrong tree here. And yes, I was stating that I believe in a Holy Ghost conception but not the immaculate conception doctrines of the Catholic Church.
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary I really don't think that you have a clear understanding of church doctrine. Calvinists/armenians believe in different doctrines concerning the manifestation of grace. I have never found a Calvinist that will tell you that you are going to hell because of unbelief in predestination. That is only one point out of five in traditional Calvinist teachings and not something that Calvin ever proclaimed by any means to be a necessity for salvation. Doctrine doesn't save. Jesus Does.
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary You have rejected Calvinism. You do not agree with tenets of Roman Catholicism, yet all read the same book but have vastly differing views. A few centuries ago, the Catholics burned people at the stake for wanting to read the bible in english. Jefferson wrote the Va statute because the congregationalists and baptists were at each other's throats. Yet to you there is one way. There are many christians who call you heretic; I am right on this. Again, why are muslims wrong?
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 Once again, you are confused about what I have told you. I have not rejected Calvinism, I have stated that I don't believe in predestination. There are FIVE POINTS TO CALVINISM, some of which I don't have a problem with. Muslims are wrong because they follow the teachings of a power hungry man. Muhammad actually urged people to go to the Word of God for answers though. Surah 10:94 of the Quran states this fact.
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary On what authority do you say that those who do not believe in god will burn in hell are wrong? Surely you know that many christians have used book of john as injunction for this: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."---This is interpreted differently by many denominations. Why are others wrong and you are right? What if you are wrong?
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 I understand the faith I was ordained in, very well, and learned many other denominations. The point is this: we now, as you show, have "religion light". Do you know how many were tortured, shunned, burned, exiled for rejecting tenets of a predominant faith where they resided. Rejection of central tenets was called heresy, some churches have removed that from their lexicon but it existed. I speak often with Baptists who say "don't believe in Christ: off to hell to burn"
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 you are placing blame on me because I am a Christian for these atrocities that have been committed and I can deal with that. But I am going to share an account with you that I think may help you. Rev. Charles Templeton was a Canadian Evangelist that organized Youth for Christ International. He hired a Carolina boy named Billy Graham as his first full time evangelist. One day he saw a picture on the front of a magazine that depicted a young child starving to death in a 3rd world country
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary I don't accuse you of any "atrocities" (that at the time were deemed moral because of the revealed word). I merely state that there is so much contradiction, different interpretation, close to 200 contradictions in NT alone that people try to "explain" differently. Billy Graham became an horrendous anti-semite, among other things. I studied religions very, very hard and realized none could be explained and all contradicted. Once you find reason and science religion will fade!
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 you must study more and you will find more contradictions and problems with scientific theories than you will ever allege to find in the Bible. That rationale doesn't hold water. It would almost seem that you are an existentialist. "God doesn't exist, but, if he does, what impact does it have on my life?" A famous atheist once said: "If ever someone claimed to be an atheist, it would be for moral reasons not intellectual reasons."
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Have you ever seen someone say they are "blessed" because of a good game, low interest rate or quick trip to work. If they are blessed then surely that starving child is damned. Religion is serfish yet egotistical at the same time. I am unworthy, I must beg, I was born in sin BUT the world was made with me in mind and if I pray god will bless me. Won the lottery = blessed, lord answered me. Child dies, cursed? No, lord moves in mysterious ways! Neither right nor moral.
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 religion is a man made concept and is very selfish and in most cases egotistical at the same right. I am not going to explain something that someone else may or may not hypothetically say to me, this is ridiculous. It is very sad when babies die, but, these babies are going to an eternal home of peace where there is no starvation, disease or poverty. You are selfish sir, you see these things as an excuse for you to be angry at God. Read ecclesiastes chp. 3 and tell me how God taking
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary You said before you don't know where people go when they die; only those who accept jesus. Yet now they go to "eternal home of peace"? Were you lying before or now? What is more likely, that a god kills kids (some "without grace" capriciously) or that because of nature or people, kids and adults die? I don't hate god; there is NO GOD! No denomination is right, CORRECT, they are all wrong. I hold no anger for that which does not exist. I resent people who lie. I am done here!!
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 you are the one that is saying these kids are dying without grace, not anyone else. God takes people home or they deserved to die because they were weak anyway. Hmm I believe that the Christian view sounds better than the evolutionists' theory.
JourneytoCalvary 4 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Once again, it is not pjmr who says they die without grace. It is different branches of your crackpot sect. Those who preach original sin: "bathed in original sin". Those who preached about "limbo". Those who, like you say only way to heaven is through jesus and then say that kids who die go to a better place (even those who are jews, muslims or unbaptized). Contradiction, upon contradiction. Like pjmr, I cannot debate with one who will contort and distort at will. Farewell!
balliolboyjohn 4 months ago
@pjmr71 Don't you find it at least a little ironic that you say that you resent people that lie and yet if it were not for the moral code in the Bible, you would have no inclination at all that it is wrong to lie?? I think that it's so ironic it's almost satirical.
JourneytoCalvary 4 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Wow! Without bible no-one would know it was wrong to lie? So, by your account, until they hit Mount Sinai the hebrews had no idea it was wrong to lie? Ever read any Confucious or Egyptian history, pre-dates the bible without which we would not know it was wrong to lie. So, by your argument, you just destroyed Judeo-Christian claim on morality and replaced it with some eastern promise. That is irony! Quit while you are behind!
balliolboyjohn 4 months ago
@pjmr71 taking these babies out of this world makes him terrible. Maybe you are the one with your priorities mixed up, trying to use something that is so terribly sad here on this earth and turning it into an attempt to justify your walking away from God. There are many different denominations, not one of them is right. If man could have gotten it right the first time, we wouldn't have needed Jesus. So we just have to ask the Lord to send us where he wants us and can use us most effectively.
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@pjmr71 again, you are making an inquiry of something that I did not say. You have a very bad habit of forcing your assumptions on me, while comical, it is not productive. I didn't say at any time in this conversation that people who don't believe in Jesus Christ won't go to hell. I answered a question directly, that God is Fair and Just and will do what is right. I don't know where anyone will go when they die, but, I know the prerequisite for going to heaven is believing in Jesus Christ
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary If you do not believe in the immaculate conception then by what right do you call catholics heretics? If you believe the only way to heaven is belief in JC then you believe those who died in Auschwitz, who must have begged for god to save them, are burning in hell, yet any guard who confessed and accepted JC is in paradise? What of the muslims who died in the Tsunami, born (by god's design??) in ignorance of him. Are they in hell? Do you call that moral? I long to know.
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 you are confused, I haven't called catholics heretics. You need to argue with the correct person on this issue. Your arguments are more narrow minded than most people that I have debated with. The fact that I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven does not automatically mean that everyone else in going to hell. Thats a Non Sequitur. God is a fair God, God is a just God and the words of Abraham still hold: "Should not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary I am not the one saying you accuse them of heresy, sir. You should become more learned in the doctrines. If you say you reject the claims of that church you become a heretic in their eyes and to them you have accused them of heresy. I am glad to hear that you reject hell as a concept for those who have not accepted jesus. Could you tell me where these people go? In 2007 the pope renounced limbo, but you do not believe that.
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 no, you should pay more attention to what I am telling you. you asked me by what right I consider these people heretics. And the answer, once again, is that I haven't accused anyone of being a heretic. That is an orthodox concept. I have stated what I believe not called anyone a heretic. And I never said that I believe people will/will not go to hell that don't believe in Jesus Christ when they die. I said that God is just and fair and has promised that all will have a chance to believe
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary My question points to the lunacy of religion, in this case the RC faith. You did not say they were heretics but must explain why they would say you called them a heretic. It is a question you would be asked by them. You will deny saying it; they will say you did. One cannot ever win with religion and christians all read from the same book. Don't believe in the IC, catholics say you will go to hell. Don't believe only way to heaven is through JC. RC + some Baptists say hell.
pjmr71 5 months ago
@pjmr71 and he said "How could a good God let this happen?" He became agnostic, left the ministry and lived out the rest of his life an angry and hateful person toward all the people and the Lord he once loved and served. When he was asked about Jesus on his death bed he stated: "All I can tell you about the Savior that I once new is that I miss him dearly." I don't know your situation but I do know that once you have tasted the goodness of God it is impossible to deny it.
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@HalleluyahMAtt how do you know that someone feeling bad is caused by a chemical reaction? have you ever seen this chemical reaction? how do you know that these chemical reactions even exist? Better yet, accepting on faith that science has discovered these chemical reactions, how do you know that they are a cause instead of a result of an outside stimulus?
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Yes, I have. My Ph.D was based on studying "these things". There are chemicals that are released into the blood stream that make us feel good, and make us feel bad. Problem for all the god botherers out there is that when new science disproves some BS in the "magic book" they say "can you see it, how do you know, you pre-suppose" SPOT ON. Falsifiability is the basis for a sound argument. You can disprove scientific assertions. Tell me, what could disprove your faith?
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary I think you've misunderstood me. Atheist believe that conciousness, mind, reason, are only random chemical reactions.If this so, how can reason and intention even be real catagories? They believe this because there is (they say) no intention in the universe.Yet how can one claim say their is no reason when they are reasoning that very point?We know, however there is reason, thus we know their is intention in our creation.I have much more faith in the Christ I know than science.
HalleluyahMAtt 4 months ago
@HalleluyahMAtt Sorry, that is babble. People here have told you many times that there are patterns in the universe. Scientists believe that. Scientists seek the cause of the patterns, you say there is reason therefore there is a god and he cares what I do. You ignore what people are say to you and just keep trying to reinforce yourself with mis-spellings, misunderstanding and concepts you don't understand. Rationalists say they do NOT know everything. You say you do. Good for you. Go away.
pjmr71 4 months ago
@balliolboyjohn What you consider to be extraordinary seems to be relative. That fact that every major culture in the history of man kind has believed in a higher power would indicate that the claim "there is no God" would be the extraordinary claim of the two requiring extraordinary reasoning. The big bang theory isn't contested in all circles just when. If someone didn't teach us to be morally conscious, how did we get that way??
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
The question of why Jesus rather than some onther God is a whole other line of discussion. An empty tomb and great deal of historical evidence is one start. Yet experiential knowledge of that very real god is the greatest of evidences. You may counter with some question predicated on materialist presuppositions, but what makes those presuppositions valid? We measure the empirical by sensory means, why not the metaphysical by means that transcend sensory experience?
HalleluyahMAtt 5 months ago
@gpwnedable the purpose of a debate is to sway the other side, if atheists are going to debate then they need to have sufficient reasons to back up their claim in an attempt to prevail. And yes, it is a claim, even if it is a claim that they don't believe in something it is nevertheless still a claim that is open to criticism and scrutiny just like the Christian claim that God exists.
JourneytoCalvary 5 months ago
@JourneytoCalvary Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Comfort says that there is a universe hence someone must have built it. He rejects the big bang while failing to understand the man who discovered the big bang was a Roman Catholic priest. Even if you assume Comfort is right about a man in the sky making the universe it is then a huge leap for him to say that man cares if we steal, murder, marry people of our own sex---for that he needs his bronze age book written by....men!
balliolboyjohn 5 months ago