@spiritualbully ehhhh...dear friend...it seems that your IQ decreasing for 30% every time...EVERY time you make an video.....:/ ....and when i just remember first time i saw your channel and i tought you are smart and open inded guy...:///
@spiritualbully hey...i just recently read an article about darwin and his origin of species...you know...that book should be banned...because it is full of theology...darwin used theology in that book...if you want me to send you article i will...oh btw..i hope you r keeping up with latest news on evolution vs ID and creation....:))) soon
@spiritualbully ok i will send you alot of interesting articles....may i ask you what do you think about this ,,revolution,, all over europe...in scotland...england,ireland,greece and many other euro countries concerning topics of evolution vs ID and creation....it was on the news just before this bullshit about osama came out....students,and professors in majority of european countries that are EVEN WORSE concerning darwinian evolution theory vs ID and creation movements than america...LOL....
@spiritualbully i hope you checked out articles i sent you...i have ...ALOT of other interesting articles ...and this about ,,revolution,, in europe...well...you have it on news...there are even articles about that...i ll try to find it here on net maybe similar articles someone posted on net....but here in europe....uk,central and southeastern europe...well majority of european countries are even worse when it comes to creationism,and ID then americans....thats really new news....lol..;))
@CartesianTheist I could've also said absolutely, the point is that it does none of them not empirically, not objectively, not absolutely and not period.
@CartesianTheist there is no "but now", I never denied it, so there's nothing to "concede". If all you're getting at is I cannot deny it's a possibility, you got it.
@CartesianTheist i never denied God could exist, (nor do I deny anything COULD exist) I DO however, live as if he doesn't, as I have no reason to do otherwise.
@CartesianTheist then no, not everything we believe or perceive to be true is empirically observable, and even the things which are, depend on us trusting our senses without any basis, relying on circular reasoning.
I meant, yes, you can ask a child if talking to them about something will harm them, but you shouldn't take their word for it. Just like you can ask a child if having sex with them would harm the, but you shouldn't take their word for it.
So not all conversations with children are equal, does that help?
@variablast that's like saying, can you ask a child whether having sex with them would hurt them or demonstrate it to them and then ask them if they like it.
Yes, some things are not harmful in themselves, but harmful to a person's social reputation if he misuses his knowledge and abilities. A knife isn't harmful, but if a child mishandles it, it is.
@variablast good question. People differ on their opinion of what constitutes "hurting children".
In my view, it's not so much that it hurts the children themselves, but that they don't need to be exposed to words they are better off not using, before they have developed and shown to utilize judgment and critical thinking.
A simple example: a kid being suspended from school and his justification - "Well, a guy on the street told me his name was x" and it was the first time he used it
I think that the evidence of god is pretty weak, but yes there really are people who say there is absolutely no evidence for god whatsoever. As far as axioms go, you just proved my point thanks :)
My point was that some things could be known outside of the scientific method or empirical evidence.
@AbusiveAntitheist but then I ask, how do you know that "those ways to know things outside of empirical evidence and scientific method" is reliable or correct?
@spiritualbully actually I would ask that to you. Since you believe in certain axioms, whats to stop someone from saying their belief in god is merely axiomatic and is the grounding for all knowledge?
@AbusiveAntitheist NOTHING. It's called presuppositional apologetics. If they admit that, I have no problem with them. It's when they think they have something better than circular reasoning, or actually have positive evidence, that I would ask what they're talking about.
The people i take issue with is those who don't admit they're circular and insist we as atheists cannot be circular.
You just justified empiricism with reason which shows that it is foundation to empiricism. I think that's all he was really saying. I don't think saying there is evidence is the same as saying there is proof, so I don't know where you're coming from with that.
@spiritualbully Do you want me to give you a reason for that? It's really a nonsensical question in my opinion. Really we have no other choice, but to deal with a-priori knowledge because a questioning reason makes as much sense as a square circle.
@spiritualbully That is true, but ultimately everything falls back on reason. That's all I'm saying. You can't base everything upon empirical evidence, or at least I haven't seen any... reason (?).... to believe that we can.
@owchywawa Yes complete skepticism is very circular, but you still can doubt logic and you don't have a choice but to believe physical reality much like you have no choice but to follow logic.
I can sympathize with philosophers who see the problem with saying you don't need philosophers and those sick of people using philosophy as a cop out from just recognizing reality as simple as it is.
@owchywawa Ignoring the fact that empericism goes a little farther then just trusting your senses and I would agree technically with philosophers that it needs justification, I kind of agree with him, even our senses or philosophy for that matter starts with unjustified beliefs. To really ask a foundation for your senses is dumb even philosophically. It's almost as bad as asking what's your justification for truth to be true. He didn't justify or need to justify his senses, because you can't.
@CartesianTheist whatever.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@spiritualbully ehhhh...dear friend...it seems that your IQ decreasing for 30% every time...EVERY time you make an video.....:/ ....and when i just remember first time i saw your channel and i tought you are smart and open inded guy...:///
giska1000 9 months ago
@giska1000 if you say so boss.
spiritualbully 9 months ago
@spiritualbully hey...i just recently read an article about darwin and his origin of species...you know...that book should be banned...because it is full of theology...darwin used theology in that book...if you want me to send you article i will...oh btw..i hope you r keeping up with latest news on evolution vs ID and creation....:))) soon
giska1000 9 months ago
@giska1000 yes, i want you to send me the article, thanks
spiritualbully 9 months ago
@spiritualbully btw maybe you heard that E.O Wilson disavows his own kin selection....???
giska1000 9 months ago
@giska1000 i didnt hear that, please link me in PM or explain if you can. thanks!
spiritualbully 9 months ago
@spiritualbully hey i think you r keeping up with latest news on evolution vs creation and ID ....but i will send you some interesting articles.....
giska1000 9 months ago
@giska1000 i try to , but I always welcome anything you find interested. thanks
spiritualbully 9 months ago
@spiritualbully ok i will send you alot of interesting articles....may i ask you what do you think about this ,,revolution,, all over europe...in scotland...england,ireland,greece and many other euro countries concerning topics of evolution vs ID and creation....it was on the news just before this bullshit about osama came out....students,and professors in majority of european countries that are EVEN WORSE concerning darwinian evolution theory vs ID and creation movements than america...LOL....
giska1000 9 months ago
@giska1000 I can't say I know what you're talking about, so I cannot comment yet.
spiritualbully 9 months ago
@spiritualbully i hope you checked out articles i sent you...i have ...ALOT of other interesting articles ...and this about ,,revolution,, in europe...well...you have it on news...there are even articles about that...i ll try to find it here on net maybe similar articles someone posted on net....but here in europe....uk,central and southeastern europe...well majority of european countries are even worse when it comes to creationism,and ID then americans....thats really new news....lol..;))
giska1000 9 months ago
@CartesianTheist I could've also said absolutely, the point is that it does none of them not empirically, not objectively, not absolutely and not period.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@CartesianTheist there is no "but now", I never denied it, so there's nothing to "concede". If all you're getting at is I cannot deny it's a possibility, you got it.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@CartesianTheist i never denied God could exist, (nor do I deny anything COULD exist) I DO however, live as if he doesn't, as I have no reason to do otherwise.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@CartesianTheist then no, not everything we believe or perceive to be true is empirically observable, and even the things which are, depend on us trusting our senses without any basis, relying on circular reasoning.
Now, what's your answer?
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@CartesianTheist define know.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@CartesianTheist as long as you admit God is not empirically observable, we can end the discussion here.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@CartesianTheist why would anybody even need to make an empirical case for anything?
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@variablast that wasn't the point, sorry.
I meant, yes, you can ask a child if talking to them about something will harm them, but you shouldn't take their word for it. Just like you can ask a child if having sex with them would harm the, but you shouldn't take their word for it.
So not all conversations with children are equal, does that help?
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@variablast that's like saying, can you ask a child whether having sex with them would hurt them or demonstrate it to them and then ask them if they like it.
Yes, some things are not harmful in themselves, but harmful to a person's social reputation if he misuses his knowledge and abilities. A knife isn't harmful, but if a child mishandles it, it is.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@variablast good question. People differ on their opinion of what constitutes "hurting children".
In my view, it's not so much that it hurts the children themselves, but that they don't need to be exposed to words they are better off not using, before they have developed and shown to utilize judgment and critical thinking.
A simple example: a kid being suspended from school and his justification - "Well, a guy on the street told me his name was x" and it was the first time he used it
spiritualbully 10 months ago
I think that the evidence of god is pretty weak, but yes there really are people who say there is absolutely no evidence for god whatsoever. As far as axioms go, you just proved my point thanks :)
My point was that some things could be known outside of the scientific method or empirical evidence.
AbusiveAntitheist 10 months ago
@AbusiveAntitheist but then I ask, how do you know that "those ways to know things outside of empirical evidence and scientific method" is reliable or correct?
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@spiritualbully actually I would ask that to you. Since you believe in certain axioms, whats to stop someone from saying their belief in god is merely axiomatic and is the grounding for all knowledge?
AbusiveAntitheist 10 months ago
@AbusiveAntitheist NOTHING. It's called presuppositional apologetics. If they admit that, I have no problem with them. It's when they think they have something better than circular reasoning, or actually have positive evidence, that I would ask what they're talking about.
The people i take issue with is those who don't admit they're circular and insist we as atheists cannot be circular.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
You just justified empiricism with reason which shows that it is foundation to empiricism. I think that's all he was really saying. I don't think saying there is evidence is the same as saying there is proof, so I don't know where you're coming from with that.
owchywawa 10 months ago
@owchywawa Even if I did, you can ask "why is reason a reliable foundation for empiricism"?
I agree, saying there is evidence is not the same as saying there is proof.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@spiritualbully Do you want me to give you a reason for that? It's really a nonsensical question in my opinion. Really we have no other choice, but to deal with a-priori knowledge because a questioning reason makes as much sense as a square circle.
owchywawa 10 months ago
@owchywawa that's exactly my point. Axioms are circular, if you had an external reason to trust your axiom, you can ask the same question again.
spiritualbully 10 months ago
@spiritualbully That is true, but ultimately everything falls back on reason. That's all I'm saying. You can't base everything upon empirical evidence, or at least I haven't seen any... reason (?).... to believe that we can.
owchywawa 10 months ago
@owchywawa Yes complete skepticism is very circular, but you still can doubt logic and you don't have a choice but to believe physical reality much like you have no choice but to follow logic.
I can sympathize with philosophers who see the problem with saying you don't need philosophers and those sick of people using philosophy as a cop out from just recognizing reality as simple as it is.
RuinSonic 10 months ago
@owchywawa Ignoring the fact that empericism goes a little farther then just trusting your senses and I would agree technically with philosophers that it needs justification, I kind of agree with him, even our senses or philosophy for that matter starts with unjustified beliefs. To really ask a foundation for your senses is dumb even philosophically. It's almost as bad as asking what's your justification for truth to be true. He didn't justify or need to justify his senses, because you can't.
RuinSonic 10 months ago
@RuinSonic What do you think Descartes was doing then? :P
owchywawa 10 months ago
@owchywawa mental masterbation.
RuinSonic 10 months ago
@RuinSonic exactly, I admitted outright i have assumptions and axioms. go mental masturbate with Descartes if you want.
spiritualbully 10 months ago