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From: farhan00
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  • u speak urdu? lol

    i thought u were 'arab?

  • @92kasim Why does everyone think I'm 'Arab?!

    Do you know Shaykh Hasan Ninowy? I think he speaks Urdu. Its hilarious cuz no one sees it coming but he'll randomly bust out in some song in praise of the Prophet SAAWS in Urdu.

  • @farhan00 because your arabic is very good lol

    and yeah i know of the sheikh but havnt seen him speaking urdu, i will have to look for it,...it sounds funny ha

  • @92kasim !!العراب يقول لهجتي كامل. ما عجيب إذا يتكلم في أردو, لغة البكستان, بكستانون يقول انا أتكلم كأمريكي و أردو لعتي أول. عجيب

    My Arabic isn't perfect, I hope you can understand that.

  • @farhan00 i cant understand it...im paki haha

    u should upload vids of your tilaawah

  • @farhan00 Your Arabic may not be perfect, but you have an excellent accent. I am impressed my Desi brother.

  • barak allah feek...these ppl are misguided and manipulate hadiths..and chose the parts that are good for them.

  • I asked few questions in my e maol so that I can better understand your point of view. If you dont have answers, please take help from your scholars. Waiting for your reply. Thanks

  • @masieha yes, I did. Sorry, I've been doing a LOT of other stuff lately and your email was quite long. I usually prefer emails with a single point, because multiple points tangent quickly.

  • @farhan00: Thanks for the reply. I know you are a busy person; therfore, if it is much easier for you, we can start with the first question, ``As per your comments, you don’t believe that Ahmadies are Muslims. If so, please provide a standard definition of a Muslim as per your belief``. OR if you want to do it some other way that will be fine with me as well.

  • @masieha One who accepts everything that the Prophet SAAWS said. Re-interpretation or undue metaphoricalization is a method of rejection.

    Now, Ahmadis do not consider Muslims to be Muslim. What is their definition?

  • @farhan00: If this is a complete definition of a “Muslim”, how can you fit yourself in it? In order to maintain your belief, you have already confirmed that saying of Mohammad SAW regarding mujadadeen is not correct and his (SAW) prophecy has failed (naozbillah)

  • @masieha ...What? When did I say the prophecies of the Prophet SAAWS failed?

    It is only the prophecy of Mirza that failed (it seems you accept that Mirza's prophecy failed, correct?)

  • @farhan00 In your previous comment you confirmed that Muhammad’s (SAW) prophecy has failed. Your comment @ v=MEVVkbCc-4A is, “Concur. But, what does that have to do with Mirza's failed prophecy?”. This comment is still available online unless you want to recall it which will show inconsistency on your side. Anyhow, if you still want to recall your comment, please provide the name of the 14th century mujadad. Please don’t nominate anybody and provide references to support your point of view

  • PART 4:... The covenant made for the people through Prophets (including the Prophet Muhammad saw) was that when there comes a Messenger fulfilling what is with them, they should accept him and help him... the verse continues by saying... (And) He said: Do you agree, and do you accept the responsibility which I lay upon you in this (matter)? They said, We agree; He said, Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

    Hence, should I need to further elaborate?

  • PART 3: The covenant made to Prophets including the Prophet (saw) were:

    "And (remember) the time when Allah took a covenant (from the people through) the Prophets, saying: Whatever I give you of the Book and Wisdom (and) then there comes to you a Messenger, fulfilling that which is with you, you shall believe in him and help him.... (Al-Imran:81)

    Therefore, the point to be noted here is that Allah made a covenant through PROPHETS (including the Prophet saw)... continue Part 4

  • PART 2, in Al-Ahzad verse 7 Allah said:

    "And (remember) when We took from the Prophets their covenant, and from thee (Muhammad), and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus, son of Mary, and We (indeed) took from them a solemn covenant;"

    Now, the question arise as to what was the covenant made through Prophets including the Holy Prophet (saw)...right?

    continue PART 3

  • My question to you! When Allah told the Muslims in Al-Araf :35

    "O children of Adam! IF Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve."

    Here Allah said clearly that IF messengers from among Muslims comes to us rehearsing Allah Signs... Simple grammar tells u that "IF" connotes the future. Now, this shows clearly that there can be Muslim Messengers after the Prophet (saw).

  • @sadjid19 In Surah al-Isra, Allah says "If there were other Gods besides Allah". Does this mean there are other Gods besides Allah?

    If you look at the context of this verse, you will see that this verse is a general statement to all of the children of Adam (AS) to accept prophets when they come to them. The Ayah just speaks of the coming or prophets, that's it. This is crystal clear from the context, which is why the Mullahs rarely use this argument.

    I also refuted it in my book.

  • @farhan00 u know what man. U think u r truthful right? We are persistently telling u Allah is with Mirza Sahib (as). Now, i cnt do anything more for u. But we know that Allah is with us by His Signs He shows. We are telling u Allah is Living and ull be able to witness that when u accept the Messiah (as). But u r still ignoring our message. Floods in Pakistan is again a Sign. But ur ignoring it. We have done our job. Now, wish for death if u r truthful.

  • @farhan00 Your comment is not clear to me. If it is a "general statement to all the children of Adam AS to accept prophets when they come", why do you think that this commandment of Allah doesn’t apply to you?

  • @masieha It does apply. The prophet that came to humanity is the Prophet Muhammad SAAWS.

  • @farhan00: Again, there is confusion. Does this mean that according to your belief this verse is no longer valid / required after the demise of the Holy Prophet Mohammad SAW and should be removed from the Holy Quran?

  • @masieha The verse is not inapplicable after the death of the Prophet SAAWS. It refers to the prophets, respective to each nation. For us, it is Muhammad SAAWS. Whether or not a future prophet is coming has no relevance to that. Otherwise, Ahmadis would believe in FUTURE prophets after Mirza and in all generations- (but they believe Mirza was the last prophet) This verse, for the context of the Muslims, refers to the Prophet Muhammad SAAWS.

  • @farhan00: Ahmadies believe in a living Allah which can talk to His creation whenever He wants, and it’s completely on His discretion to send messengers. We are nobody to comment on Allah’s authority and predict who His last messanger is. You guys belive in a DEAD God as He (naozobilah) has lost His ability to talk to His creation. AGAIN, this verse is a clear proof of a living Allah; ask your scholars about it. Also, read 7:148 in which Allah defines the concept of a True God Himself.

  • @masieha I concur, but when Allah and his prophet SAAWS told us there are no more prophets, are you still going to disbelieve that?

    And, if you believe not believing in more prophets makes Allah 'dead', do you believe that for the 1300~ years before Mirza showed up, Allah was asleep? That's an awfully long time.

  • @farhan00: Thanks for your understanding. Are you talking about 33:40 or there are some other references from Quran u can provide. Ahmadies believe the meaning of Khatamun Nabiyeen in spiritual sense like Khatmul Aolia is Hadrat Ali RA. Similarly, you also believe in the meaning of khatmun nabiyeen in spiritual sense; otherwise, you would not be able to claim that Jesus is still physically alive. As far as 1300 yrs, it is according to the prophecies of Mohammad SAW

  • @masieha Have you read my book? I address that very point "Khatamul Aolia" in it. Lets talk via chat if you have MSN.

  • @farhan00: You have a very ethical approach towards an open dialogue, and I would definitely like to chat with you. However, it’s difficult for me to squeeze my very unpredictable and busy schedule. For me this is the most convenient way of communication. Is your book available on-line or do you have a pdf copy?

  • @masieha Hm...send me your email address via private message. I'll email you the book.

  • @farhan00 : This is a quick reminder that I am waiting for your e-mail. As you asked, I have sent you my e-mail address through private e-mail account about a week ago. Please let me know if you haven’t receive my e-mail so that I may resend it to you.

  • @masieha Please do re-send it. I'm usually pretty good with emails, but I don't recall one from you.

  • @farhan00: Just wondering if you have received my e mail sent to you on your private address a few days ago. I asked few questions in it so that I can better understand your point of view. Your acknowledgement will be much appreciated.

  • @ malika .. lol

  • are u like ex-Ahmadi, ur so passionate about it?

  • Attention Every ONE

    All of u who can read Urdu, must sign up to the s,c,r,i,b,d (remove the comas) dot com & read the books;

    Qadianiat Say Islam Tak &

    Sharhar E Sadoom

    We nw need to knw the "kurtoot" (deeds) of mirza's khalifas, i quote mirza mehmood:

    "How foolish we're tht we plant a garden, nourish it, when it is ready to produce fruit, & wish some1 else take it & eat its fruit" (he is referring to daughters)

    Mirza mehmood, has been abusing his daughters, find the remaing facts on s,c,ribd

  • do u read crishtans books against the holy prophet pbuh no if u want to study about islam read quran clearly and if u want to find objections at quran read crishtans books and same if u want to read about mirza ghullam ahmad a.s plz read there own books

  • Read mirza's books?

    Books which start with how blessed he is and end with the threats to his opponents?

    I have read him, and i have read those who left qadianiat.

    I have talked to people like you, who are "scholars" at the interpretation of the word "twafa"

    You guys should be given the biggest awards for holding on to the faith who's khalifa is both bisexual and an incest.

    join some gay p***n tube and share you pain and pleasures there.

  • im not a scholer im a true muslim ahmdi only.

    2nd if u read the books of HAZRAT MIRZA GHULLAM AHMAD AS then u shoulg saw the the challange of twafa now i demand same if u present singel example in ALLAH is talikng and man is listning the tawafa is use insted death?if u present a singel refrance we should adopt your interprtition.

    man all of your ullmas are unabel to do that.

    hope if u talk at qalam allah then we should get some thing?

  • See you are also a "twafa" scholar.

    ""man all of your ullmas are unabel to do that""

    Our ullemas have been unable (rather unwilling) to what mirza did, you know that he claimed to have slept with his god.

    I am done with talking to qadianis, i am no more scared of the this bisexual and incest cult.

    Please talk to the hand.

  • Checkout my video...lemme know if it brings you back to earth?

  • and if u read the shia,s books at khulafa rashdeen i hope u will get the ans of bisexual or that kind of ans.if u proves our basic points by quran i will left ahmdiyat but promise me if i proved your points then what will u do?

  • How about a Mubahila instead?

    I don't want a qadiani to use his incredibly wild imagination about Quran and Ahadiths.

    Spare me, and if you want reasons to quit qadianiat, you don't need my help, just google "Shahar-e-sadoom" if you fear Allah, you will abandon qadianiat.

    Excuse me now, i have better things to do.

  • Sometimes, I watch my own videos and its so strange to me to see myself. Its as if its another person, not me.

  • @farhan00 yeah kinda feels like you're watching shaitan

  • There were two crude comments, one from a Muslim and one from an Ahmadi. Both were deleted.

    If we claim to follow the Prophet Muhammad SAAWS, perhaps we all should follow his manners and character.

  • Attention please!!!

    Son of the current qadiani head, Ahmed Bilal, has embraced islam, google it.

    What are the rest of you qadianis waiting for?

    Embrace Islam, what good this faith could be when the son the jammat's head isn't sure of it?

    Hail Islam.

  • That's a lie! I have personally met the son of the current head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. That's not even his name.

    Come out of your fairy tales!

  • @samrazulfiqar

    Current head?

    No he's claimed to be the son of the 3rd head!

  • @syedbilalanwar: SO TELL ME, MIRZA CLAIMED HE WAS GIVEN THE POWER TO GIVE AND TAKE LIFE.

    WHY WAS IT HE DIED A HUMILIATING DEATH ?

    HE USED TO CURSE ALL HIS ENEMIES, WHY DIDN'T THEY DIED ?

    Mirza Ghulam claimed, he was given the power to make heaven and earth!

    If that was so, why did he need the help of others to clean his own backside ?

    Why couldn't he save himself from death ?

    why did he fail on every twist and turn he made ?

    so much for your gay chants!

  • LOL, did th news just register with you.....are you talking about the clown who could not find bandages and castings but instead used red and green khatme nabuwat banners to wrap his "broken" legs...1

    If you guys are gonna do something like this, don't make your stupidity that obvious..!

  • hmmm making enough money for preaching on net?

    I can get you some good online job, interested?

  • You Qadiyanis still here spreading your falsehood, Check the video I have uploaded, I would love to hear what you people think of it!

  • @syedbilalanwar: YOU TALK TOO MUCH, WHY DON'T YOU COME OVER AND TALK ON MY VIDEO,& ALL THOSE ALLEGATIONS ABOUT YOUR KHALIFAS COMMITING RAPE,INCEST,SODOMY ETC.....YEAH LOVE 4 ALL ALRIGHT,BUT IN A DIFFERENT WAY! :-)

    I DO NOT FEAR NO ONE APART FROM ALLAH,SO YOU SEE,ALL THESE BASELESS CHEERLEADING YOU PEOPLE HAVE DONE WAS FOR THESE KAFFIRS!.....GET YOUR KHALIFAS TO TAKE OATH THAT THEY HAVEN'T COMMITED SUCH ACTS,OR YOU & YOUR CRONIES TAKE THE OATH,IF THEY ARE TRUE WHAT HAVE YOU'S GOT TO FEAR ?

  • @SoldierOfIslaam

    Talking too much shouldn't be a problem, lol, is it getting annoying? JUST DONT READ THE POSTS AND DONT REPLY! You shouldn't be able to hear me on this!

    LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE

  • @syedbilalanwar: Not really, I have heard plenty of nonesense from you people, you cannot annoy me. But however your moto is very Gay! :-)

    Read my page, with an open heart and you might just learn something ! But then again, your hrat has been sealed, so it is just like dancing to the blind with you's, lol!

  • ""LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE ""

    You mean no gender distinction?

  • Comment removed

  • Or thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a book that we can read. Say, Holy is my Lord! I am not but a man sent as a Messenger. (17:94)

    Don't be of the Jahaliyya, no human can ascend bodily to heaven. Holy is Allah..!

  • yes human can go by himself

    but if ALLAH wills then its possible

    ur calling Companions of Prophet (PUBH) to be Jahaliyya as well coz they believe in Physical Miraj

  • Go and read the tafsir of this verse..hopefully your mulla have explained is correclty. Meesnegers are only humans anc do not go up bodily...Allah is Holy..!

  • I asked my Mullah the other day about that. The Mullah didn't know. Perhaps that Mullah should learn. Mullah! Mullah! Everyone who disagrees with us is by definition a Mullah!

    MULLAHS!!

  • No brother, Mulla's are not an Islamic phenomenon. They exist in all religions and/or special interest groups.

    Mulla's are hypocritical people whose aim is to maintain influence over the weak (and illiterate) through misinformation, blackmail and thuggery.

    To counter mulla's Allah sends his pious reformers who become an existential challenge to the mulla's and their power base. They then resort to any and all methods (no hold barred) to counter the man of God.

  • again I have read it and no where it mentioned what your are saying

    and tell me do you agree with every tafsir? :)

    also according to Mirza ghulam himself ALmost ALL companions believed in Physical Miraj

    So are they Jahil as well ?

  • The journey of the Meraj was not with the physical body, but was a vision of the highest type, which in effect was experienced in complete wakefulness. In such a vision, a person according to the capacity of his soul, can journey through the heavens with a body of light. As the soul of the Holy Prophet possessed the highest capacity, therefore, in his journey of Meraj, he arrived at ......cont

  • the highest point of the universe, which is described as the Great Throne. This journey was the vision in a sort of wakefulness. I do not call it a dream, nor was it a vision of low status. This was a vision at the highest stage, which is clearer and brighter than wakefulness. I myself have experience of this type of vision [Izalai Auhan, (Amritsar, Riyaz Hind Press 1308 A.H.); Now published in Ruhani Khazain (London, 1984), Vol. 3, p. 47, footnote]

  • The Meraj (spiritual ascent) of the Holy Prophet was his complete withdrawal from the world, and its purpose was to disclose the heavenly station of the Holy Prophet. Every soul has a point in heaven beyond which it cannot proceed. The point of the Holy Prophet was the Arsh. The Companion on high also connotes God. Thus the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, was honoured above every one else (Malfoozat, Vol. II,P 136)

  • Let me quote it for you:

    Ahazrat kay rafa Jismi kay barah mein yani is barehy mein KAY WHO JISAM KAY SIMAIT SAB-E-mIRJA MEIN ASMAN KE TURAF UTHAYE GAYE TAQREEBAN TAMAM SAHAB(ra) KA YEHI AQEEDAH THA

    JESA KAY MASIH kay uthay janey par barey mein is zamaney kay log aqeedah rakhtey hain yani jisam kay sath uthaey jana

  • Reference Izala auham page 247

    so now what you gona say?

    next excuse?

    Ijmah was on physical mirja (so few companions disagree wont gona negate the IJMAH of Best generation)

    so was ALmost all companion Jahil? as you call us

  • My urdu is not very good, I will reply later tonite after I have it read ...

    And please do not draw inferences and put words in our mouth that we are calling the companions jahil.

    The companions can err and make mistakes but are not Jahil nauzubillah. This is why there is NO hadith of sahaba eye witnesses to his physical ascension as much as the sahaba was totally attached to the Prophet(saw) observing every detail of is life.

  • If they were one or two then the case you can say they made a mistake

    but ALMOST ALL

    how can almost all make same mistake?

  • come on ur mirza ghulam said that almost all companions (taqreeban Taman Sahaba) now you dont agree with him even

    also dear why Hazrat Abu Bakar(RA) was given the title of Saddique :)

  • Hazrat Abu Bakr(ra) was definitely Siddique (the truthful)...but he was bashr and not perfect and nowhere does he or any sahab say the they saw him(saw), they have made an assumption that he did.

    Allah is Al-Haqq ...!

  • this was ur statement:

    "Don't be of the Jahaliyya, no human can ascend bodily to heaven"

    so you was calling us Jahaliyya coz we believe in Physical ascend of ISA(AS)

    so ur standards got changed like always?

  • Yes all sahaba can be mistaken and can misunderstand, nothing wrong with that. This is why there is no supporting evidence that they witnessed him(saw) ascend bodily.

    Even the Prophet(saw) mistook the meaning of his vision hajj in the case of sulah Hudaibiya. ONLY Allah is perfect from mistakes.

    My standards have not changed as I think any human can make a mistake, but in this case Hazrat sahib(as) is absolutely right as it is supported by Quran and hadith.

  • you are the ultimate deviant!!!

    You are doing it as a job otherwise a man claiming to be so blessed due to his most controversial faith is the biggest hipo and worst of worst.

  • You talkin to me???

  • Yes, he(as) does say that there was Ijmah of most of the sahaba except a few including Hazrat Aisha(ra).

    I also tried to find out if any sahaba opposed hazrat Aisha's view poitn whichwas not the case.

    This means that the Ijmah was based on conjecture as none of them have clearly and conclusively witnessed the bodily ascension.

    Would it not have been a slap on the face of the kuffar if he(saw) would have actually ascended as they wanted proof in (6:36) & (17:94)?? He did not and could not.

  • Again did they say that they were wrong and they agree with Hazrat Aisha

    so your saying ALL MOST ALL (not just few) were wrong and got the wrong idea about Miraj?

  • If ALLAH wills its possible

    Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) was declared Saddique when one person said that do you believe the claim that Prophet (PUBH) went from Makkah to Jeruslem in one night and Abu Bakar (RA) agree to that

    if it was just a dream or vision why would ppl had issues with it and why they make issue about one night thing?

    so Companions(RA) that lived there whole life close to Prophet (PUBH) All most all of them was on same mistake makes no sense

    not just one or few companions

  • Just like Hazrat Abu Bakr(ra), we completely believe in the event called Miraj, but it was not bodily ascent and it was NOT a dream either. We can relate to this when we go to an IMAX theater & watch african safari, it is like we are in Africa beside the lions even better we have 3D movies these days that you see stuff beside you.. it is so real and we are fully awake. So imagine what Allah can show the Prophets by stimulating their brains in fully awakened state.

  • Why that person was questioning Prophet (PUBH) visiting jeruslem in one night when it was just a vision?

    and why almost all companions believe it to be physical if it was not?

  • Brother there is a very good example of where Sahaba(ra) and even the Prophet(saw) can err which is the incident of Hudaibiyya. The had full belief that will do Hajj, but could not so much so that Hazrat Umar(ra) states that was the one incident that raised doubts in him about his belief.

    So clearly if they did not witness it and based their belief on and assumption or conjecture, then we should reject that. Why accept something that is against the sunna?

    Also no hadith on jesus ascent.

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    that was for the future Event not that something happened so totally two different things:)

    read it Mirza ghulam said word Ijmah cannot be used for Prophecy (cant be for future events)

    Ijmah is based upon Yakeen and Infishaf Kuli

    so again MGA himself proved you wrong dear

  • This is again an example of how you folk contextualize what Mirza sahib said to your liking.

    They are both in the past:

    Vision did not come after hudaibiya but was the basis(thru ijmah) of the expedition.

    The Ijmah of hudaibiya was based on the visionof Rasool-eKarim(saw) just as the Ijmah of Miraj was based on the alleged bodily ascent of Rasulullah(saw).

  • Also, why such a secretive affair?

    If ascent was a normal thing than you think Allah would not have answered the kuffar and slapped their faces and ascended Huzur(saw) infront of their eyes?? Why not?

    That is why Allah says to Huzur(saw) "So be thou not of those who lack knowledge." Ascent is not possible.

  • Explained that before

    Plus how you know Kuffar would have believed him even then

    so again please dont ask these IF questions

    so you still havnt answered

    Why ALMOST ALL companions (RA) believed in physical Miraj?

    And why people had issues with visiting Jeruslem in one day? and Abu agreeing with it make him Saddique

    plus Ijmah is based on Yakeen and Inkishaf Kuli according to mirza ghulam

    also Ijmah was by the best generation and Mirza ghulam himself called it IJMAH

  • Vision:

    Narrated Ibn Abbas: Regarding: 'And We granted the vision (Ascension to the Heaven "miraj") which We showed you (O Muhammad as an actual eye witness) but as a trial for mankind.' (17.60) It was an actual eye-witness which was shown to Allah's Apostle during the night he was taken on a journey (through the heavens). And the cursed tree is the tree of Az-Zaqqum (a bitter pungent tree which grows at the bottom of Hell). (Book #60, Hadith #240)

  • Also that would mean that ALmost all the comapnions also didnt understand the verse that your trying to show which according to u goes against the physical ascend

  • So according to you my mahmood:

    All companions made the mistake that they thought it to be Physical

    Almost All of them Didnt understand that Quran as well

    People having issues with visiting Jeruslem in one night also didnt know the story of Miraj

    Ijmah was not based on yakeen and Inkishaf

    ur just arguing for the sake of it now everything that goes against ur belief becomes wrong automatically even if there are many proofs for its truthfulness.

    please stop the blind following

  • I have proven to you base on hudaibiya that the can make a mistake and in this case they did and we support Hazrat Aisha Siddiqa(ra) stance as it makes sense and is inline with the physical laws established by Allah.

    Actually the Quran is supportive of this. We have proven that Tawaffa is death, and Rafaa is a spiritual ascent. So the Quran is supportive of our stance.

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    Hudaibiya was future event I explained you in very simple way but u ignored it

    and according to MGA himself Ijmah cant be for Prophecy

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    proven where? you are even going against the meaning of the words mahmood

    so please talk some sense and learn about the islamic Beliefs

    you think you even know better than the Ijmah of companions of Prophet (PUBH)

    and that neither they understand Quran nor they know about Miraj.

    and MGA himself pawned you by saying Ijmah is based upon Yakeen and Inkishaf Kuli

    you just make up arguments to defend the stuff that have been taught to and u blindly follows it

  • First of all i need to give you people 10 marks for ur contextual theatrics.

    If we use "Ijmah is based upon Yakeen and Inkishaf Kuli"

    then why do u run away from the vision of hudaibiya as explained by Huzur(saw) to sahaba?

    This was not future? The journey to MECCA began after the vision and after there was IJMAH and YAKEEN of the vision of Prophet(saw)..! The Ijmah of Miraj was also after the Miraj no it before..! They were wrong in both cases!

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    No dear its simple journey was after it and Haj was after it

    so it can be called Ijmah according to MGA

    ohh but I forget like always you dont stand by mirza words when they dont suits you

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    So tell us was Haj before they believed or after they believed

    even journey was on going not some past event

    so please talk sense mr mahmood. your making a joke out of ur self while trying to defend the belief of ur's jammat

  • Lai illah illalah Muhamadur rasoolullah..WHAT IS WRONG with u people??

    Chronology of hudaibiya:

    Huzur(saw) has dream in Madina

    Tthere is Ijma and the wear ihram to and beging jouney to Mecca for Hajj

    they were mistaken

    Miraj:

    Huzur has vision of miraj

    There is Ijmah about bodily ascension

    Sahabawere mistaken

  • And how am I going against the meaning of words.

    We are always consistent in our belief and our thoughts. When we say Tawaffaini is death its is death all across. When we say Rafaa we mean spiritual ascent or hightened status all across.

    But you guys use it as "took you" when it comes to Jesus and "death" when it come the the Prophet(saw)(10:46)

  • Again, what is supportive of Hazrat Aisha(ra) stance is that NONE of the sahaba(ra), who assume that it was a bodily ascent, saw it or witnessed this great event even though in hadith they have noted the minutest details of the life of the Prophet(saw). How come they missed seeing or witnessing this event??

  • Your just disagree with Ijmah coz you dont feel it to be right

    So ur telling Ijmah of Companions was wrong

    and Hazrat Aisha (RA) was right? even she didnt saw the Vision her self :)

  • But Hazrat Aisha(ra) was the closest to Huzur(saw) mores then all the sahaba combined and all his(saw) other wives :)

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    Closest still does not mean she saw the vision her self it was the vision.

    on the other side there were not just one or two ppl

    nor just some random ppl.

    the people who know the number of white hairs in Prophet (PUBH) beard would made such a huge mistake that too almost every one of them

  • But brother NONE of them including Aisha Siddiqa(ra) saw that vision. One party says it was physical and the other says it was a vision.

    We are giving weight to Hazrat Aisha(ra) because ONLY she truly knew how many white hairs the Prophet(saw) had and no other sahaba was as close.

    Also it is physically IMPOSSIBLE.

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    ur ignoring Ijmah and going with minor opinion shows that ur just blindly following what ur organization teach you

    and ignoring the Ijmah of the companions

    Think that neither they Understand Miraj

    nor they understand Quran

    nor the ppl who asking Question knows the story

    so you see that u stand upon weak ground

  • Again Allah is showing him(saw) a vision that the Quraish can't see...but he is describing it to them. Like u are looking at a TV and describing someone on the phone what you see.

    Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: That he heard Allah's Apostle saying, "When the people of Quraish did not believe me (i.e. the story of my night journey), I stood up in Al-Hijr and Allah displayed Jerusalem in front of me, and I began describing it to them while I was looking at it." (Book #58, Hadith #226)

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    Yes does tat mean he again went on Miraj? NO

    so unlike Hudaibiya it was the event that was from PAST.

    And if almost all companions believed in physical Miraj that means they also didnt understand the verse of QURAN according to ur standards

    so you see it gets even more complicated for you.

  • It only gets complicated if we think that the sahaba cannot make a mistake, other wise there is no complication.

    Again, none of them saw Him(saw) go up so there thoughts are all conjecture.

    Also u need to think about the fact that He(saw) met Prophet that had died before him, including Jesus. This is only possible in a spiritual sense. Have you seen a dead person in person? Only way you can see him is in a vision of sort because he physically does not exist.

  • @mahmoodahmadtoronto

    Again one making mistake or few can be understandable but all

    and making mistake by ALMOST ALL not just about Miraj and also about Quran at same time is quit a far fetch idea

  • @xiaahmad

    so majority is right? Is Islam a majority in the world (1.5/7*100 = 21.4%) and if we take away the "only muslim by name" it'll be far less, you will agree!

    And you will certainly find more than 21.4% of the world say that Islam is not right. including the people who've tried to study it. so why not trust the majority?

    Weren't the Jews in majority when they tried to crucify Jesus(as)?

    Moral of the story - The MAJORITY IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT

    LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE

  • Syedbilal If you dont know about the Ijmah then please dont show ur ignorance

    and it was not Ijmah of some random ppl even :D

  • learn about what is meant by IJMAH in Islam

    and according to ur MGA himself Ijmah is based upon Yakeen & Inkishaf Kuli

    so again when it didnt suits you, you dont even agree with MGA himself

    that shows ur weak faith

    so You believe

    All Companions who lived with Prophet (PUBH) didnt understand the Miraj

    All Companions Neither understand the Quran

    but your understanding is wrong without proofs

    plus can you explain how have Vision of Future and unknown places correctly how that is Natural?

  • we have to understand what's the difference between the physical and visionary miraj.

    Physical = Unnatural = No witness = False

    Vision = Natural = Witness = True

    If we believe it to be physical then we've got to believe that Allah(swt) nauzubillah breaks his own laws of nature to prove to humans the superiority of a mere creation of his (Prophet)

    Allah is perfect = Perfect laws of nature = No need to violate own made PERFECT LAWS = Same with Jesus's (as) bodily ascension

    /watch?v=hE1QcyfLfEM

  • Miraj = Physical= allmost all with prophet believed

    Miraj = vision= only very few believed.

    none witness either physical nor vision so again plz cut the assumptions

  • shut up.

  • Allah is Holy, no doubt in that, its His blessing that the faith which appeared threatening to some Muslims in the beginning showed its masochist and diseased effects from the top to the very bottom of it, with the first appointed khalifa up till now.

  • don't you feel ashamed of using Quranic verses to add weight in your faith?

    I have been feeling very disturbed after reading books "Qadianiat say Islam tak" and "Shahar-e-Sadoom". I no longer think qadianiat can do any good to the world or ANY HARM to Islam at all.

    All qadianiat can do is give birth to more bisexual and incest.

    Are you gay by choice or you were being forced into it?

  • "And if their aversion is grievous to thee, then, if thou art able to seek a passage into the earth or a ladder unto heaven, and bring them a Sign, thou canst do so. And had Allah enforced His will, He could surely have brought them together into the guidance. So be thou not of those who lack knowledge." (6:36)

    Do not be of the Jahalliya, no bashr(human) can EVER ascend bodily to heaven.

  • Companions of Prophet (PUBH) had Ijmah that Miraj was Physical

    thats too according to MGA himself :D

  • Looks liek my comments are ebing delete..

    Anyway

    1. Show me a hadith in which the Sahaba WITNESSED the ascension. I want only one.

    2. Read the last part of the verse. Allah says don't be of the jahil be believing this madari business of up and down...!

  • Again are you disagree with the IJMAH of COMPANIONS of Prophet Muhammad (PUBH)?

  • Brother we also agree to Miraj as a fact. But there is no Bodily ascension. The verse I quoted clear this up.

    I asked you to give me ONE EYE witness account of Sahaba that they SAW Him(saw) go up physically.

  • You are ignoring the main point

    that according to MGA himself ALL most ALL COMPANIONS of PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PUBH) believed in Miraj to be Physical

  • I am not ignoring your point, I have given you quotation from Hazrat sahib above.

    The IJMAH was that Miraj took place, but NOT that it was a Physical one.

    Now give me your reference where he(as) say's the the IJMAH was of PHYSICAL ascent??

  • then read it carefully:

    Let me quote it for you:

    Ahazrat kay rafa Jismi kay barah mein yani is barehy mein KAY WHO JISAM KAY SIMAIT SAB-E-mIRJA MEIN ASMAN KE TURAF UTHAYE GAYE TAQREEBAN TAMAM SAHAB(ra) KA YEHI AQEEDAH THA

    JESA KAY MASIH kay uthay janey par barey mein is zamaney kay log aqeedah rakhtey hain yani jisam kay sath uthaey jana

    ALL MOST ALL COMAPANIONS BELIEVED IN PHYSICAL MIRAJ ACCORDING TO MIRZA GHULAM

    so they are jahil to according to ur standards

  • Give me the page and reference please, so I can read prior to replying. Thnx.

  • Izala auham 247

    and do read the next page he said that Hazrat Aisha(RA) disagree with the IJMAH

    so IJMAH was with physical Miraj

    also at other place Mirza ghulam said Ijmah is based upon Inkishaf aur Yakeen-e-Kuli :)

  • KAFIR

  • The main verses under question regarding the ascension or death of Jesus(as) as alleged by some imposters are 5:117 and 3:55. Muslim as well as imposter translations are as below: -

  • Rashad Khalifa

    Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I AM TERMINATING YOUR LIFE, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes. [3:55]

  • "I told them only what You commanded me to say, that: `You shall worship GOD, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness among them for as long as I lived with them. When You TERMINATED MY LIFE ON EARTH, You became the Watcher over them. You witness all things. [5:117]

  • Qadiani (Ahmadi)

    Remember the time when Allah said, 'O Jesus, I WILL CAUSE THEE TO DIE A NATURAL DEATH and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.' [3:55]

  • 'I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me - Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since THOU DIDST CAUSE ME TO DIE, Thou, hast been the Watcher over them, and Thou art Witness over all things. [5:117]

  • Authentic Translation approved by Muslims (Yusuf Ali)

    Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I WILL TAKE THEE and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. [3:55]

  • "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when THOU DIDST TAKE ME UP Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. [5:117]

  • The Word under Question

    When we take a look at the verses we find that one Arabic word has been translated in 2 different ways. This word is tawaffa. Lets study this word below before explaining the verses in question.

    Word: tawaffa

    Root Word: waffa

  • waffa means To give someone his due in full, let someone have his full share, pay someone in full, to treat exhaustively, write or speak fully about, set forth or develop in detail, fulfillment, keeping, honoring, carrying out, living up to, redemption, making good, standing by, carrying out. [Al-Mawrid, Arabic-English, Page 1240.]

  • tawaffa means the act of "taking the self back" (either in sleep or in death as seen in the Quran). And as seen in Al Mawrid Arabic-English, pg 391: To take (receive, get, obtain) ones due or ones share in full.

    This word has been used to mean both death and sleep in the Quran.

  • Other Translators Face Problems with this Word

    We will now take three more translators and analyze their translation of the verses concerned.-

  • E.H. Palmer

    When God said, 'O Jesus! I will MAKE THEE DIE and take Thee up again to me and will clear thee of those who misbelieve, and will make those who follow thee above those who misbelieve, at the day of judgment, then to me is your return. I will decide between you concerning that wherein ye disagree. [3:55]

  • I never told them save what Thou didst bid me,- "Worship God, my Lord and your Lord," and I was a witness against them so long as I was amongst them; but when THOU DIDST TAKE ME AWAY TO THYSELF Thou wert the watcher over them, for Thou art witness over all. [5:117]

  • Rodwell

    Remember when God said, "O Jesus! Verily I WILL CAUSE THEE TO DIE, and will take thee up to myself and deliver thee from those who believe not; and I will place those who follow thee above those who believe not, until the day of resurrection. Then, to me is your return, and wherein ye differ will I decide between you. [3:55]

  • "I spake not to them aught but that which thou didst bid me'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord;' and I was a witness of their actions while I stayed among them; but since THOU HAST TAKEN ME TO THYSELF, Thou hast Thyself watched them, and Thou art witness of all things. [5:117]

  • Shakir

    And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to TERMINATE THE PERIOD OF YOUR STAY (ON EARTH) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. [3:55]

  • I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst CAUSE ME TO DIE, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. [5:117]

  • Some people who wish to portray that Jesus died use these translations to prove their point. They will quote 3:55 by these translators and then claim that everyone translates the word as die except for most Muslim translators. From the translations it is apparent that while the translators have translated the word tawaffa as die in 3:55, they have translated the same word as to take away in 5:117. -

  • - This clearly shows the lack of understanding these translators have for the word tawaffa. Hence to say that these translators are 100% percent accurate would be a lie.

    E.H Palmer translates it as cause to die for verse 3:55 and translates it completely differently for verse 5:117 as seen above. Shakir translates it as cause to die for verse 5:117 and translates it completely differently for verse 3:55. -

  • Also keep in mind that terminate the period of your stay (on earth) does not necessarily mean death and could mean ascension from earth. This same trait is seen in Rodwells translation. His lack of knowledge is seen in his translations of 3:55 where he translates it as cause to die and then in 5:117 he translates it as thou hast taken me to Thyself.

  • Verses where Tawaffa is not used for Death

    It is He Who takes you back to Himself (yatawaffakum) at night, while knowing the things you perpetrate by day, and then wakes you up again, so that a specified term may be fulfilled. Then you will return to Him. Then He will inform you about what you did. [6:60]

  • Allah takes back peoples selves (tawaffa) when their death arrives and those who have not yet died, while they are asleep. He keeps hold of those whose death has been decreed and sends the others back for a specified term. There are certainly Signs in that for people who reflect. [39:42]

    These verses are clear that Allah takes back the self of the one who is in sleep and returns it to those who are not yet to die. -

  • - For those who die, their self is returned. So it can be said that the phrase take your souls by night (6:60) means to cause you to sleep just as the phrase yab athukum (to revive or quicken you or, as translated, to be raised) is used to refer to us waking up from sleep.

  • Explanation of Tawaffa

    Tawaffa originally means to take.

    Example:tawaffaytu min fulanin ma liya `alayhi this is when one would say:I have taken back my debt from so & so

    In the Quran it is seen as to take in death or in sleep.This proves that tawaffa does not mean death only.Tawaffa from 6:60 can also be said to mean to cause one to sleep.

    I have tried to explain this in the simplest terms possible & it is seen that to take (tawaffa) can mean death or 2 cause 2 sleep etc.

  • This I have done by omitting all the interpretations of various scholars and sticking strictly to the word itself and its meaning and how it is used in the Quran in different places because Submitters (followers of Rashad Khalifa) and Qadianis or Ahmadis (followers of Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani) wish to ignore the hadith, the former ignores every one of it while the latter ignores those that prove their cult to be false.

  • One might question, why should tawaffa mean to sleep in the case of Jesus? In other words why should there be sleep before ascension?

    To try to explain it in modern scientific terms, it is known that the higher a man goes, the harder it gets to breathe. Therefore if Jesus(as) was taken up while awake, that would have been difficult for him. However while in a state of deep sleep, the ascension would be much easier for him.

  • When Talking about Other Prophets what does the Quran use?

    The Quran speaks about the death of other prophets as well but it generally uses the terms mawta or qataluhu or their derivatives. Below are some examples:

    "He Who will cause me to die (yumeetunee), then give me life." [26: 81]

    when he (Joseph) died (halaka), you said: "God will never send another Messenger after him." [40:34]

  • We did not give any human being before you immortality (khuld). And if you die (mitta), will they then be immortal? [21:34]

    Then when We decreed that he (Solomon) should die (mawt), nothing divulged his death (mawtihi) to them except the worm that ate his staff. [34:14]

  • Or were you present when death (mawt) came to Jacob? [2:133]

    So naught was the answer of (Abraham's) people except that they said: Kill (uqtuloohu) him or burn him. But Allah did save him from the Fire. Verily in this are Signs for people who believe. [29:24]

  • Consulting Tafseer Ibn Kathir

    Below is the excerpt from the tafseer of