Hawk Blues have a max temp of 1000F, above that their grip will start to drop off. That's a low temperature for a racing pad. They will hold up well on a Miata under racing conditions, but won't cut it for heavy cars with lots of hp.
We don't know whether it was the fluid that failed in this case (soft pedal) or the pads (hard pedal), but the pads are definitely a possibility.
A 2500 lb racecar with 150 hp will use pads that can take 1500-2000F (orange glowing rotors) and retain full friction.
The following may not apply to this car, but here is a general problem - people bring high hp cars to the track, tune them to even higher hp, and add suspension and tire upgrades that make the pace even faster.
Often the brakes aren't upgraded the same way. Big brembos will still overheat if the fluid boils or the brakepads overheat. There are many pads sold as 'racing pads' that aren't really and overheat in a strong car. Even in 100-200 hp race cars, we use pads that can take up to 2000F.
No matter what, at 120mph you were going to cross that service road. Pull up google earth so you can stay informed. Knowing that you were going to cross the service road no matter what I would say your lucky you didn't hit a tree.
If I were in a car with a ghetto harness set-up like that, in a factory seat, I'd be pretty happy with the outcome of this brake failure. The instructor did the same thing I would have.
@toejambfutbol I could be wrong but he may be referring to the fact that you had a harness without a rollbar. In a rollover situation the prevailing wisdom is that could be worse than stock belts.
@Toejambfutboi You are an idiot to even argue this with jacob. The only person you should be blaming here is yourself, not acting like a child and trying to blame /anyone/ you can for your own lack of skill. He's an instructor for a reason - your petty argument is proving this beyond a doubt.
I don't blame the instructor for the accident. Mechanical failure is mechanical failure. Things happen. No brakes at over 100 is a scary thing no matter what skill. I simply posted this for others to know that if this happens to them, they should go off straight ahead.
The instructor apologized after and agreed he shouldn't have grabbed the wheel and we should have gone straight off. And I'm still in the advanced drivers division, and my car is back in action.
No, I don't blaim him, but I do BLAME him. It would have been fine for him to grab the wheel if he were correct, however if he wouldn't have intervened we would have went off the track straight ahead without any damage to the car.
@toejambfutbol No, you wouldn't have. There is a concrete wall and some kind of drainage ditch. What ever you think might have happened I know for sure you would have damaged the car. You went off the track at 110 on the speedo on a track that has no runoff. Blame the iphone for the spelling pal.
There actually is no retaining wall or drainage ditch in this area. There is an empty field for runoff straight ahead in this clockwise direction of the back straight. The instructor apologized after the crash because we inspected this field and decided it would have been much better to go off straight. Scratched bumpers maybe, but 5 new control arms, 3 new shocks, and a new subframe, no. Don't try to speculate if you haven't driven this racetrack in this direction.
@nolobede See, instructors have their volunteer job for a reason. Most of us have a good chunk of track and racing experience. That doesn't make our decisions perfect. In an emergency with an inexperienced student, the danger is high that the student does something in panic, while the experienced guy will be able to make *some* good decision. It may only be the 2nd best one, but it gets both people out unharmed. That's all that matters, and that's why we take the wheel.
Nope, not a good enough answer. From the pass side, you do NOT have enough control to grab the wheel. Since you don't have the reach or grasp to actually control the wheel for full revolution you shouldn't even think about it. 'Caus eif you over/understeer, you can't control the rest of the motion.And if your worth a shit as a teacher, you'd know better
@nolobede Funny that you claim to know all that, but I am the one who is a certified instructor and licensed racing driver. Novices and not-so-novices do amazingly DON'T EVER things once in a while because they don't know any better. It is these rare emergencies that we are told and trained to reach over and save the day. And you are wrong - it is possible to drive the car from the passenger seat. We actually train to recover a car that's out of control from the passenger seat, in real cars.
And I'll guarantee you are not more educated than I am in physics OR cognitive reflex response. And I'd knock your shit silly if you grabbed the wheel... are we done now?
Like i give a fuck for your opinion. You've already shown us what a fuckhead you are. Even the passenger apologized for it. and he did NOT take control, he forced a right turn and left the wheel, so don't tell us you know what the fuck you're talking about. Drive with me and grab my wheel and 'll knock you out the fucking door while I'm still moving... fool.
@nolobede On your profile, you call yourself a well educated person, and a humanist. All you have displayed here is rage, insults and threats of violence, all unprovoked. Your statements show that you have at best basic real life experience in high performance driving, and absolutely no idea of the errors that trackday students make, yet violently insist that all your random ideas are correct. If this reflects the way you drive, please stay away from racetracks.
You confuse rage with angst against stupidity. My education and worldview have been earned, and I am allowed to voice my well educated opinion. Acceptance, or to respond is your own choice, I really don't care.
Well as they say about opinions... they are like assholes, everybody has an asshole... and some are assholes. Congratulations for making both categories.
@astrokaisc And if you think it "gets both out unharmed" then you make the mistake of not knowing that that even a less experienced driver has a better chance of control from behind the wheel, had you trained them well enough to get to this situation. The poor decision STILL lies at the passenger.
@nolobede And I guarantee you that after a brake failure at 100 mph, you won't punch anyone. You'll be sitting in the car, jittering with adrenalin, thinking "holy shit that was close".
Kind of confused on what happened. It looks like ya'll were going Clockwise and if you lost the brakes on the back straight the best thing to do would have be try to make the turn and then run wide into the little gravel road area and into the grass.
the "little gravel road area" turns into a jump when you get there going over 100 and try to make the turn, which is exactly what happened. the hang time in the video is jumping over that service road, landing about 30 ft past it and rolling between 2 trees into some bushes
So you saying you shoulda literally kept going straight? Sorry only done TWS CCW and trying to grasp the situation, suck the camera isn't showing the window. And did the instructor literally grab the wheel forcing it where HE wanted to go?
Yeah, I should have run off straight ahead. The instructor grabbed the wheel knowing I was going to try to go straight, but he thought there was a ditch/culvert in the field that would of stopped us dead.
Maybe you should stick with street racing SRT-4's.
buttdyno 2 months ago
Hawk Blues have a max temp of 1000F, above that their grip will start to drop off. That's a low temperature for a racing pad. They will hold up well on a Miata under racing conditions, but won't cut it for heavy cars with lots of hp.
We don't know whether it was the fluid that failed in this case (soft pedal) or the pads (hard pedal), but the pads are definitely a possibility.
A 2500 lb racecar with 150 hp will use pads that can take 1500-2000F (orange glowing rotors) and retain full friction.
astrokaisc 2 months ago
I call bullshit on the Hawk Blues
jacob300zx 3 months ago
So which pads are "race brake pads"?
buttdyno 3 months ago
@buttdyno
Hawk Blue 9012
toejambfutbol 3 months ago
Curious as to what brand and model of brake pad was on the car, and what brake fluid was used? Also, was stability control on?
GVIrish 3 months ago
The following may not apply to this car, but here is a general problem - people bring high hp cars to the track, tune them to even higher hp, and add suspension and tire upgrades that make the pace even faster.
Often the brakes aren't upgraded the same way. Big brembos will still overheat if the fluid boils or the brakepads overheat. There are many pads sold as 'racing pads' that aren't really and overheat in a strong car. Even in 100-200 hp race cars, we use pads that can take up to 2000F.
astrokaisc 3 months ago
No matter what, at 120mph you were going to cross that service road. Pull up google earth so you can stay informed. Knowing that you were going to cross the service road no matter what I would say your lucky you didn't hit a tree.
spoolin2bars 3 months ago
If I were in a car with a ghetto harness set-up like that, in a factory seat, I'd be pretty happy with the outcome of this brake failure. The instructor did the same thing I would have.
mrbrg 3 months ago 2
@mrbrg
Scroth Safety Products is a innovative and certified safety manufacturer with over 15 patents on their harnesses
ww.english.schroth DOT com
Try again.
toejambfutbol 3 months ago
@toejambfutbol I could be wrong but he may be referring to the fact that you had a harness without a rollbar. In a rollover situation the prevailing wisdom is that could be worse than stock belts.
GVIrish 3 months ago
@Toejambfutboi You are an idiot to even argue this with jacob. The only person you should be blaming here is yourself, not acting like a child and trying to blame /anyone/ you can for your own lack of skill. He's an instructor for a reason - your petty argument is proving this beyond a doubt.
blaen8891 3 months ago
@blaen8891
I don't blame the instructor for the accident. Mechanical failure is mechanical failure. Things happen. No brakes at over 100 is a scary thing no matter what skill. I simply posted this for others to know that if this happens to them, they should go off straight ahead.
The instructor apologized after and agreed he shouldn't have grabbed the wheel and we should have gone straight off. And I'm still in the advanced drivers division, and my car is back in action.
toejambfutbol 3 months ago 4
You put his life in danger when your brakes failed. He grabbed your wheel because he wanted to live. Do you blaim him?
jacob300zx 3 months ago
@jacob300zx
No, I don't blaim him, but I do BLAME him. It would have been fine for him to grab the wheel if he were correct, however if he wouldn't have intervened we would have went off the track straight ahead without any damage to the car.
toejambfutbol 3 months ago
@toejambfutbol No, you wouldn't have. There is a concrete wall and some kind of drainage ditch. What ever you think might have happened I know for sure you would have damaged the car. You went off the track at 110 on the speedo on a track that has no runoff. Blame the iphone for the spelling pal.
jacob300zx 3 months ago
@jacob300zx
There actually is no retaining wall or drainage ditch in this area. There is an empty field for runoff straight ahead in this clockwise direction of the back straight. The instructor apologized after the crash because we inspected this field and decided it would have been much better to go off straight. Scratched bumpers maybe, but 5 new control arms, 3 new shocks, and a new subframe, no. Don't try to speculate if you haven't driven this racetrack in this direction.
toejambfutbol 3 months ago
lmao welcome mike 1:46
dcpthree17 3 months ago
He has already been off straight, nice that is who I want coaching me...
79glastron 4 months ago
I would knock the FUCK out of anyone who EVER grabbed the steering wheel while I was driving!!!
nolobede 4 months ago
@nolobede See, instructors have their volunteer job for a reason. Most of us have a good chunk of track and racing experience. That doesn't make our decisions perfect. In an emergency with an inexperienced student, the danger is high that the student does something in panic, while the experienced guy will be able to make *some* good decision. It may only be the 2nd best one, but it gets both people out unharmed. That's all that matters, and that's why we take the wheel.
astrokaisc 3 months ago
@astrokaisc
Nope, not a good enough answer. From the pass side, you do NOT have enough control to grab the wheel. Since you don't have the reach or grasp to actually control the wheel for full revolution you shouldn't even think about it. 'Caus eif you over/understeer, you can't control the rest of the motion.And if your worth a shit as a teacher, you'd know better
nolobede 3 months ago
@nolobede Funny that you claim to know all that, but I am the one who is a certified instructor and licensed racing driver. Novices and not-so-novices do amazingly DON'T EVER things once in a while because they don't know any better. It is these rare emergencies that we are told and trained to reach over and save the day. And you are wrong - it is possible to drive the car from the passenger seat. We actually train to recover a car that's out of control from the passenger seat, in real cars.
astrokaisc 3 months ago
@astrokaisc
And I'll guarantee you are not more educated than I am in physics OR cognitive reflex response. And I'd knock your shit silly if you grabbed the wheel... are we done now?
nolobede 3 months ago
@nolobede The only thing guaranteed here is that you are a fool.
ephidapoon 2 months ago
@ephidapoon
Like i give a fuck for your opinion. You've already shown us what a fuckhead you are. Even the passenger apologized for it. and he did NOT take control, he forced a right turn and left the wheel, so don't tell us you know what the fuck you're talking about. Drive with me and grab my wheel and 'll knock you out the fucking door while I'm still moving... fool.
nolobede 2 months ago
@nolobede On your profile, you call yourself a well educated person, and a humanist. All you have displayed here is rage, insults and threats of violence, all unprovoked. Your statements show that you have at best basic real life experience in high performance driving, and absolutely no idea of the errors that trackday students make, yet violently insist that all your random ideas are correct. If this reflects the way you drive, please stay away from racetracks.
astrokaisc 2 months ago
@astrokaisc
You confuse rage with angst against stupidity. My education and worldview have been earned, and I am allowed to voice my well educated opinion. Acceptance, or to respond is your own choice, I really don't care.
nolobede 2 months ago
@nolobede I just want to confirm what you would do if I took the wheel during a ride along?
ephidapoon 2 months ago
@ephidapoon
I don't let idiots ride in my V, Lucky you.
nolobede 2 months ago
@nolobede I think your just mad that you made yourself look like an idiot on here.
ephidapoon 2 months ago
@ephidapoon
Well as they say about opinions... they are like assholes, everybody has an asshole... and some are assholes. Congratulations for making both categories.
I think your just mad because you know I'm right.
nolobede 2 months ago
@nolobede uuh, ok.
ephidapoon 2 months ago
@astrokaisc And if you think it "gets both out unharmed" then you make the mistake of not knowing that that even a less experienced driver has a better chance of control from behind the wheel, had you trained them well enough to get to this situation. The poor decision STILL lies at the passenger.
nolobede 3 months ago
@nolobede And I guarantee you that after a brake failure at 100 mph, you won't punch anyone. You'll be sitting in the car, jittering with adrenalin, thinking "holy shit that was close".
astrokaisc 3 months ago
@astrokaisc
"You'll be sitting in the car, jittering with adrenalin, thinking "holy shit that was close".
- I might... and THEN I would knock the fuck out of the passenger.
nolobede 3 months ago
@nolobede How old are you - 12?
astrokaisc 3 months ago
Kind of confused on what happened. It looks like ya'll were going Clockwise and if you lost the brakes on the back straight the best thing to do would have be try to make the turn and then run wide into the little gravel road area and into the grass.
trunxgp1224 5 months ago
@trunxgp1224
the "little gravel road area" turns into a jump when you get there going over 100 and try to make the turn, which is exactly what happened. the hang time in the video is jumping over that service road, landing about 30 ft past it and rolling between 2 trees into some bushes
toejambfutbol 5 months ago
@toejambfutbol
So you saying you shoulda literally kept going straight? Sorry only done TWS CCW and trying to grasp the situation, suck the camera isn't showing the window. And did the instructor literally grab the wheel forcing it where HE wanted to go?
trunxgp1224 5 months ago
@trunxgp1224
Yeah, I should have run off straight ahead. The instructor grabbed the wheel knowing I was going to try to go straight, but he thought there was a ditch/culvert in the field that would of stopped us dead.
toejambfutbol 5 months ago
@toejambfutbol
I woulda beat his head for doing that.
trunxgp1224 5 months ago
to add my good friends evo did that and my cuzins r33 skyline nismo did that
lilgamg 6 months ago
he probably had stock fluid and it boiled not uncommon when racing a street car on a track people tend to over look that aspect
lilgamg 6 months ago
@lilgamg
wrong.
functionrecall 6 months ago
@functionrecall i said probably, whats your conclusion ?
lilgamg 6 months ago
why did the brakes fail?
634890 6 months ago