The ministry of foreign affairs is putting great efforts in balancing the media, but we all know it's a battle of numbers. The more we post, blog, talkback, vote the more likely we gain positive sentiment. I was asked by the ministry of foreign affairs to arrange a network of volunteers, who are willing to contribute to this effort. If you're up to it you will receive a daily messages & media package as well as targets. If you wish to participate, please respond to this email.
You also still haven't justified your allegation about me trying to "silence you". Any of the three lonely people reading the exchanges between you and me can see that several times you accused me of attempting to silence you, but nobody will find any instances of me telling you to shut up. Anyone can click on my channel nickname and see I did not remove the graffiti you scribbled on my channel page 8 months ago also. I love free speech and believe even people like you deserve it.
The solicitation to become a pro-Israel "media volunteer" also includes a list of media links which the ministry would like addressed by pro-Israel comments:
Dear friends, We hold the [sic] military supremacy, yet fail the battle over the international media. We need to buy time for the IDF to succeed, and the least we can do is spare some (additional) minutes on the net. The ministry of foreign affairs is putting great efforts in balancing the media, but we all know it's a battle of numbers.
With Israel's foreign ministry organising volunteers to flood news websites with pro-Israeli comments, Propaganda 2.0 is here
By Richard Silverstein
January 11, 2009 "The Guardian" -- -...(continuation) Now, we know that the Israeli foreign ministry itself is orchestrating propaganda efforts designed to flood news websites with pro-Israel arguments and information. A reader of my blog has received the following email which documents both the efforts and the agency that origi.
Even if this true (and considering the source, virulent anti-Israel polemicist Richard Silverstein writing in the Guardian,, the veracity is dubious), but let's assume it is true that the Israeli Foreign Ministry officially asked pro-Israel people to do this and that's true. One, there is nothing wrong with it, and two, they are not being paid to do it. How would the pay system even work? You never answered my question. How come YOU, mrshutetr77 are on youtube so much? Are you a paid agent?
Hasbara Spam Alert-With Israel's foreign ministry organising volunteers to flood news websites with pro-Israeli comments, Propaganda 2.0 is here
By Richard Silverstein
January 11, 2009 "The Guardian" -- -The hasbara brigade strikes again! You always hear about Israeli attempts at media manipulation. Everyone knows it's going on but usually the process happens through cyber insurgents like those involved with Giyus (and its media monitoring software, Megaphone).
ohh come the f__k on man.....there was a war......u lost!...4 armys against one...and lost!......now anywhere in the world when thes a war and you lose.....its over! you lost.....but here...the losers are blowing up on buses and threatning to kill the winners for 60 yrs......
You must be kidding me? You are an ill-informed individual. I, myself, do not have anything against Jews, but they received an unfair advantage from two powerful countries (UK AND US). They did not accomplish the feat on their own. Regardless of who won, their actions are unethical and absolutely unthinkable!
"but they received an unfair advantage from two powerful countries (UK AND US). "
Actually, in 1948-49, far from assisting, the US enforced an arms embargo on Israel. The UK actively assisted the Arabs by providing training, weapons and even officers to the Arab Legion of Transjordan. Israeli, however, did benefit from Arab disorganization and bad planning. Israel also received most of its weapons from Czechoslovakia, with Soviet approval and Israelis smuggled weapons from other sources.
Israel lost more than 6,000 people out of a pre-war Jewish population of 600,000--that's 1% percent of its population-- to win its War of Independence That's not a small number. Proportionately, it would be as if the USA today lost 3.1 million people in a war lasting about a year. That's how we won in the end--through the sacrifice and willingness to fight and die of our soldiers.
Give me your source of information. This exact collection of knowledge is often taught to Israeli students to make them believe what their country did was honorable. I reiterate that these acts were immoral. Although a significant number, it does not compare to the number of Palestinian lives lost since the start of the war. To the statement below, I will concede to your argument if and only if you give me a source that is unbias. If not, I am inclined to reject your argument.
Since you will probably discount the wealth of sites I gave you that discuss the US arms embargo from 1948 on Israel, for a contemporary account, go to the New York times website at nytimes[dot]com, do an "Advanced search" in the Archives using the date range of 1851-1980, and enter in the search terms "israel, "embargo" and "1948". The second result is the following:
"British officials are already very much worried about the deterioration of Anglo-American relations over Palestine and they point to the fact that their supplies of arms to the Arab countries are being dried up just as the United States seems to be ready to send arms to Palestine. "
The British had nothing to worry about, because the Americans never armed the Israelis in 1948-49. Moreover, as I stated, the British armed Jordan (then called Transjordan), which was their puppet state then.
"BRITAIN FEARS U.S. WILL ARM ISRAEL; Shift on Palestine Embargo Spurs Misgivings as London Aid to Arabs Nears End
By HERBERT L. MATTHEWSSpecial to THE NEW YORK TIMES.
May 22, 1948, Saturday
LONDON, May 21 -- Reports from Washington that President Truman plans to lift the arms embargo on Palestine aroused keen misgivings here today. British officials are already very much worried about the deterioration of Anglo-American relations over Palestine"
"Although a significant number, it does not compare to the number of Palestinian lives lost since the start of the war."
The Palestinian Arabs are believed to have suffered anywhere between 8,000 and 15,000 deaths, combatant and non-combatant. When you consider that the Arab population of the British Mandate of Palestine was just over a million, even if you accept the high number of 15,000 Palestinian Arab deaths, that's also about 1.25%, so I am not sure why you say "it does not compare".
Actually, the 8,000-15,000 figure represents not only Palestinian Arab deaths (combatant and civilian) but also from all the belligerent Arab nations that participated in the Arab invasion of Israel in 1948-49, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq,Lebanon, etc...so the likelihood is that Palestinian Arab deaths were far fewer and and proportionately comparable or less than the casualties suffered by Israeli Jews, at least for 1948-1949.
"Regardless of who won, their actions are unethical"
You mean winning a war against enemies that swear to destroy you and expel you from your country is unethical? Do you think the ethical thing to do is die?
"and absolutely unthinkable! "
LOL! You're "absolutely unthinkable"! At least, you don't know how to think clearly.
Your arrogance is beyond any bounds. Your proud speech about the Israeli's exudes the common and typical nonsense that zionists commonly regurgitate out of their mouths. You have not provided me with your source of information. I must, however, apologize for your existence. A question (of yours) such as "winning a war against enemies that swear to destroy you and expel you from your country is unethical?" shows your absolute blind belief in the acts of zionism.
"You have not provided me with your source of information. "
I gave you several sources, including primary contemporaneous journalistic sources from the period in question that referred to and detailed the American arms embargo on Israel in 1948-49 and that the British actually actively aided the Jordanians, which amply refuted your false assertion that Israel relied on help from Britain and the US in its independence war. Learn some history or learn to read.
If you wish to see sources of for the approximately 6,000 Israelis killed in the 1948-49 war, I suggest you go to google and enter the words "israeli war of independence total casualties" (Just paste those words in quotes in before the parenthesis) You will find numerous sources that back up my number. Moreover, each and every Israeli military death is cataloged and memorialized online at the Israeli Defence Ministry's website, complete with bios of the fallen, which is at izkor[DOT]gov[DOT]il.
Now, I'm sure you will discredit the sources I gave you, because when you enter those search terms in google, mostly Israeli or Jewish sources come up--but every time there is a military or civilian death here due to the conflict, it is widely reported--several of my own family are memorialized in the IDF online memorial. Do you think they invented fake bios and histories for all the approximately 6,000 Israelis killed in 1948-49?
Just google "onwar[DOT]com" (obviously, replace the [DOT] with an actual period "." , google doesn't allow those in URLs and then type in "Israeli War of Independence 1948-1949" and "casualties" and this will come up-- and the approximate 6,000 total Israeli KIA came up. Obviously, the Arabs also lost many people too, but that's war...
The dictionary defines "arrogance" as an "offensive display of superiority or self-importance;overbearing pride.". What does Israel's losing more than 6,000 deaths in the War of 1948 have to do with pride? I wish Israel suffered zero deaths, but sadly, people die in wars. I would rather no one die on any side, but obviously I prefer that more of my enemy die than of my own people. How is that unethical? Since when do ethics require suicide? Answer, please.
This guy has absolutely nothing better to do with his life, he is on this videos all the time selling the apartheid state. He very happy with all the free money he is getting from his compatriots tax payers, and money that is loaned by impoverished Asians to his gov't in the US so they can give it to him for free.
"This guy has absolutely nothing better to do with his life,"
I do many interesting things in my life. Why do you think you know so much about me?
"he is on this videos all the time"
How much time is "all the time"? I think I had this kind of idiotic debate with you about 8 months ago the last time (according to the ranting comments you left on my page). That's "all the time", in your opinion?
Can you respond to anything I said or "irishxxkelt" said, without a personal attack?
Why are you on youtube so often, ranting and raving and making crazy comments? Do I accuse you of living off the oil wealth or being a paid agent of a government? I do not, because I know very little about you, other than that you say you are of Iranian heritage and live in Venezuela and that you resort to crude language and personal attacks and can't spell or use proper grammar, not only in English, but most likely in Spanish or Farsi as well.
"He very happy with all the free money he is getting from his compatriots tax payers,"
Tell me more about this "free money". Where is my check? Yes, Israel gets about 3 billion a year in US money (so does Egypt, and currently the US spends more on Iraq in a week). US aid to Israel goes right back into the US economy because we have to spend every penny of the "aid" purchasing from the US defense industry. Like many Israelis, I believe we can do very well with far-less US aid.
You are very well spoken in your words, and thus are able to twist the facts very well. Egypt does get a significant portion of money from the US, BUT it is second to Israel. Also, the reason they get such a large amount is because the government is currently an ally of the US (it supports the blockade of any aid to Palestinian regions in need). Secondly, money is being put forth in Iraq for the selfish agenda of the United States.
You're right, Israel gets significant American aid for weapons purchases. I believe we can do quite well without it. Re: the blockade of any aid to Palestinans, know that during the Oslo heyday Israel encouraged the US and EU to give money and invest in them, most of it was squandered or stolen by Arafat and his cronies. As the Palestinian Authority in Gaza under the control of Hamas is actively hostile and belligerent to us, why would we not blockade it?
LOL You a complete Joke, i have no reason to censur you, but you got all the reason in the world to censur people who disagree with you, which is why you like to spend so much of your time writing on these boards in the hopes that all the other you disagree with are gone. Get a life, because you too comfortable free loading off the US tax payer and all of your comment are bogus and laughable! One day your favorite aoartheid regime will fall. Get a job that is not funded by the US tax payers
" but you got all the reason in the world to censur people who disagree with you""
And yet I did not. On the contrary, as someone from a free society, I always support everyone's right for absolute freedom of expression and thought.Please remember that you scrawled graffiti on my page. I left it up. When you scrawled the graffiti you accused me of trying to silence you--yet you blocked me from responding on your page.
"which is why you like to spend so much of your time writing on these boards "
I think I spend a lot less time on these boards than you do. You never answered why you spend so much time on these boards.
"in the hopes that all the other you disagree with are gone."
Oh, certainly not. It would be very boring if everyone agreed with me--but it amuses me when someone like you writes something wrong, and I enjoy the opportunity to educate others about the flaws in what people like you write.
What's your point when you say "compatriots tax payers"?
As I said, I live in Israel, have Israeli citizenship and pay Israeli taxes and I benefit from other Israelis' taxes--i.e., government health insurance, something they don't have in the USA. Therefore, by definition, my "compatriots" are Israelis, and in that sense other Israelis' taxes support me, as I support other Israelis. I still hold a US passport though, and file US tax returns in compliance with US law, like all dual citizens must.
It must be very frustrating for you that you can't censor people who disagree with you by revoking their license to broadcast like the Chavistas do. Just the other day, they shut down opposition station RCTV because they didn't show Chavez's speeches. Still, I think there is slightly more freedom in Venezuela than in Iran,e they don't shoot and rape opponents of the regime like the Basij do. You're a lucky Iranian, eh, enjoying the beaches and the free oil money and beer in Caracas!
It seems you have resorted to personal attacks, when you have previously attacked another for doing so. Is that not a bit hypocritical? It seems, however, you will never change your mind. I am, however, interested in knowing your opinion regarding the conflict. Are you a total communist? You seem to have contradictory statements in your argument. At one point you say that Jews made it prosperous and it should belong to them, and at another point you say you do not want casualties on either side.
"Mrshutter" made allegations that I have no job and "freeload"--when I actually work two jobs (right now, I am working VERY late--it's nearly 3am n Israel now, on a project for a client in London). I gave him a taste of his own medicine, that's all.
What does that mean, "total Zionist"? I am a Zionist, in that I believe the Jewish people, like any other national or ethnic group, have the right to self-determination in their own state in its historical homeland, which is Israel . Having a Jewish state in Israel does not preclude there being a Palestinian Arab state in part of that same land.
This is not a religious fight. This is a fight for greed and power. I can come at you with the same story, and say that it continued in the Bible and in the Quran and it said you LOST the land. Because of what? Because you started worshipping statues of cattle!
Since I did not use religion as a justification for an independent Jewish state, I do not know why you are bringing it up. Know, however, that many Islamic fundamentalists justify their opposition to Jewish independence on religious grounds.
The contradiction lies in the statements regarding the existence of both entities (no casualties on either side), and yet basically diminishing any possibility of Arab contribution to the culture and society. Basically saying that both should exist, except that Jews are the only ones deserving of existence.
I responded to the gentleman's assertions that the only way I could have time to respond is A, if I am unemployed in Israel and "freeloading" from American taxpayers, or B. if I have a job, I must be employed by an Israeli Ministry of Propaganda. I rhetorically asked him the same question--where does he get the time to make his allegations and ludicrous comments? Is he employed to do so or is he freeloading? How is that a personal, ad hominem attack?
You are clearly an ethnocentric individual who does not want to change his mind. I cannot do so. It is people, such as yourself, that make it nearly impossible for negotiations to take place. If you have not figured by now, I am a Palestinian! Guess what? I thought there would be hope for that region. I have lost all hope for reformation. It seems your mind and the minds of others are set in stone. I will no longer argue this matter any further.
If you mean by "ethnocentric" that I support the right of my ethnic and national group to have the right of self-determination in its own independent and sovereign state, then I am ethnocentric. If you mean by "ethnocentric" that I am exclusively concerned with my own ethnic group and no other, than I am not ethnocentric.
"If you have not figured by now, I am a Palestinian!"
If you're against ethnic affiliation, why inform me of this fact?
I hope you will realize that your attitude is atrocious. You seem to be merciless. It is no wonder why Israeli reformers have such a hard time accomplishing anything. They must deal with the likes of you! My only regret is that I have wasted my time responding to your comments.
Dude this guy probbaly works for a unit in the foreign ministry assigend to drop Israeli government propaganda on the internet but thay act like regualr folks. If not, he must be too comfy with all the free money he is getting by the US tax payer to sit on his computer and jabber jabber all day long. He has got way too much time on his hand. But I like how you challenge him. Let's expose him till he shut up and gets a job and moves on with his life.
"this guy probbaly works for a unit in the foreign ministry assigend to drop Israeli government propaganda on the internet but thay act like regualr folks"
That makes as much sense as saying that you work for such a unit for Palestinian propaganda department. If they have such a unit, I certainly hope they would be wise enough to hire someone with better reasoning and language skills than you. Although they have mane many blunders in the past, I think they are more sophisticated than that.
"If not, he must be too comfy with all the free money he is getting by the US tax payer."
Tell me, where can I get the "free money"? You seem to know a lot about this.
" to sit on his computer and jabber jabber all day long"
So, in your opinion, is it abnormal to spend perhaps 45 minutes to an hour perhaps a few times a month (sometimes several months go by where I am not on youtube)--is that "jabbering all day long". I asked you, how DO YOU have so much time?
You said you have no reason to censor me, yet you want me to shut up. Why is that? Remember, you made a PUBLIC comment on a PUBLIC forum, using your free speech rights. If you make a public comment on a public forum, you should expect someone else will use their free speech rights to disagree with you, PUBLICLY. Now, you may choose not to answer, but if you say something else ridiculous, you should not be surprised when someone like me responds.
I actually have very little time, but I also mostly work late nights and evenings and find this kind of thing diverting occasionally.
"But I like how you challenge him."
What "challenge" was I given? To provide a source for the fact that the US imposed an embargo on Israel in 1948-49? That was no challenge. But because I enjoy teaching people, I found atom11220 many sources within seconds, all of which I posted here. You are both welcome.
mrshutter77, do you seriously think Israel pays people to as you put if "drop Israeli governmnet propaganda on the internet but they act like regular folks"? My God people prefer to believe all sorts of nonsense and suspend any intelligence they might have.
There have been several articles by various authors inclduing israeli authors and reports about this. If you like I can show you some links. And the very fact that you are responding the way your are responding goes to show you yourself know there is some truth to all of this. Besides for a guys who like just likes to participate in these forum, he has way too much time on his hands and he just can't stop writing to silence all the people who he disagrees,w his baseless areguments leporcon
@mrshutter77 "Besides for a guys who like just likes to participate in these forum, he has way too much time on his hands"
As I said, I don't have very much time on my hands, but more time than I had when I worked as a lawyer in the US. Today, I work anywhere from 45-70 hours a week. This past week I have spent about 90 minutes responding to you and the other guy,which may have been a waste of time, but less time than I used to spend watching TV .
The very fact that you are setting here explaing yourself over and over again goes to show you that everything your saying is Bullshit, and you love that other see your baseless propaganda comments which you paid to by ur comptariots tax dollars in the US. The US is ur country, and if you insist that ISrael is your country you just made a big admission as to whom so many US jews are loyal to first when push comes to shove! Thanks for the exposure! Keep enjoying the free US money while it lasts!
The US is my country in the sense that I happen to have been born there and still hold a US passport (useful for visiting my mother), but for the past 9 years, I have lived in Israel (where I also spent a big part of my childhood), so indeed I am Israeli, and indeed Israel is my country. I am curious as to why you keep insisting that the US is my country. I am happy to discuss my biography (I am my favorite topic) but why do you think you know so much about me?
"If you insist that ISrael is your country you just made a big admission as to whom so many US jews are loyal to first"
My views about Israel being my country before the US don't reflect the majority of American Jews, most of whom marry non-Jews and are not interested in Israel, sadly enough in my opinion. Probably 90% of US Jews feel themselves to be American first and are leaving the Jewish fold, if it wasn't for Jewhaters like you they wouldn't remember they are Jewish.
"you just made a big admission as to whom so many US jews are loyal to first when push comes to shove!"
Oh, I've always been up-front about my desire to return permanently to Israel. But, when "push comes to shove" , yes I did choose to return to Israel in 2000, and I am very proud of that! 9 years ago, I had a good (but boring) career and the US economy was booming, but I made the decision to come back to Israel right in the middle of the bus and market bombings and awful economy.
Return to Israel? you were never from there, your from the US --but thanks for the admission anyways. Israel's economy never has had any problem & never will because it is being subsidized by the US. Hasbara brigaders shift must starting early!
"Return to Israel? you were never from there, your from the US --but thanks for the admission anyways."
Jews as a nation originate from Israel, and any Jew who moves here returns to his homeland. In my own personal case, my father's family has lived here for many centuries. His mother, my late grandmother, was born in Jerusalem and left with her parents during WW1, first for Egypt, then France and the USA. I also lived here from age 3-10, and again from 30 until now, so I am always at home here.
I don't make a secret about anything about myself. Hey, I love talking about myself! Ask my ex-wife or my girlfriend. What exactly do you think you have exposed?
What do you mean, "justifying" myself? One justifies oneself when one does something one is ashamed of. I think I have made the best move of my life by returning to live in Israel , and I advocate it all the time for other Jews (but it's not for everyone) whenever I meet Jews from the US.
"your from the US --but thanks for the admission anyways"
It's not a crime to be from the US and I am not ashamed of it--so why do you characterize it as an "admission"?
"Israel's economy never has had any problem & never will" Officially Israel is in recession right now. The economy so far is not feeling so bad, partly because it was never that good to begin with. So far we avoided most of the kind of disasters that affected Wall Street--e.g., Credit Default Swaps and subprime mortgages.
"Israel's economy never has had any problem & never will"
Today the unemployment rate in the US is 10%. That's considered pretty bad. In Israel today, we are doing a bit better, like 7.5% or something unemployment. But in 2001-3, we had like 11% unemployment, and the US unemployment rate was 4%. So yeah, when I moved to Israel, the economy was worse here than it was in the US. But I always liked it better here. I did have to live off some savings from my American job though for a while.
@mrshutter77 " "and he just can't stop writing to silence all the people who he disagrees,"
You have made this accusation frequently, that I have attempted "to silence you" but I find it very odd that you say this, as 1. even if I wanted to silence you, I could not, and 2, I never told you to be silent. You made comments on a public forum which I disagreed with publicly, but I never tried to "silence" you. You even wrote on my personal page, and I left your comments up,while you blocked me.
Israels Foreign Ministry is reported to be establishing a special undercover team of paid workers whose job it will be to surf the internet 24 hours a day spreading positive news about Israel.
Internet-savvy Israeli youngsters with language skills, are being recruited to pose as ordinary surfers while they provide the governments line on the Middle East conflict......Pretty much explains you!!!!
LOL, "Information Clearing House"---That's your source? Why do you find it so hard to believe that someone like me loves his country, despite all its flaws, and defends it when someone like you says something wrong? I have asked you several times...you accuse me of either being a paid agent or having no life or no job because I am on this board responding to you. By the same logic then, you must also be a paid agent or have no life because you are making comments on this borad.
"Internet-savvy Israeli youngsters with language skills,"
Wow... now I'm a "youngster"--I turned 39 a while back and see 40 approaching, so I have been feeling kind of old lately. My girlfriend always tell me I look so old with gray in my beard, so that makes me feel good!
I do appreciate that you think I'm a youngster, seriously I do. I looked at the Richard Silverstein article, and even if it's true that the Israeli Foreign Ministry asked people to take up Israel's cause, and even if I am part of that effort (I am not) from where do you get that I am a paid employee? Is Ahmadenijad paying you? In your world, are the only people with opinions paid employees of governments. Maybe I can sign up to defend Zimbabwe? Find out if Mugabe is paying!
If by "merciless" you mean that when I know I am right, I won't let go of an issue when someone else is wrong and I can prove it, then I'm merciless. That's why I am divorced! ;-). Perhaps that's a character flaw. When someone proves to me that I am wrong, I always admit it.
If you mean by "merciless" that I have no compassion, that is false. I even have compassion for Palestinian Arabs, but compassion doesn't require me to give up my rights or my life for them.
But you see, in this case of war...it was not a war of defense, it was a war of terror. The Israeli Zionists came with two HUGE imperialistic countries and took over what was no longer theirs (they had lost it first). IN ADDITION, do you really think these imperialistic countries care about the fate of the Israeli people....NO! They only care about its existence because it gives them a strategic point in the Midddle East!
"But you see, in this case of war...it was not a war of defense, it was a war of terror."
War always seems like terror for the losers. There were atrocities and killings on both sides, that's what always happens in war.
"The Israeli Zionists came with two HUGE imperialistic countries"
So ridiculously false. If any side had "imperialist" backing, it was the Arabs, as Jordan was supported by the British. (The Egyptians also received some British aid.)
"Israeli Zionists came with two HUGE imperialistic countries"
Google "John Glubb" and "Arab Legion". Here, I'll make it easier for you." ransjordan/Jordan military.
In September 1923, after Britain created Transjordan...commanded by Capt. Frederick G. Peake, was reorganized and merged with all other forces in Transjordan, and given the name al-Jaysh al-Arabi (Arab Army), more commonly referred to as the Arab Legion. The Legion served as a force for British colonial rule in Transjordan."
" Like the modern Jordanian army, the Arab Legion was widely viewed as the best-trained and best-equipped army in the Arab world.
The Arab Legion began as a small, elite armed force of a little over a thousand men. Peake organized it to high efficiency, recruiting Arab volunteers from Transjordan, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, and Hijaz."
As I said, however, in 1948-49, despite the US arms embargo Israel did procure many weapons, mostly from then Communist Czechoslovakia, and utilizing connections of Eastern European Jews in that region. Israel also benefited from many foreign volunteers (mainly of Jewish background) who had acquired military experience fighting in the allied forces during WW2, as well as local Jewish veterans who had fought for the British forces during WW2 and gained sound knowledge of military tactics.
So, indeed the Israelis had a distinct advantage--they did not get any help from the US or the UK (contrary to your assertion) but they obtained weapons indirectly from the USSR and were resourceful at smuggling/procuring and even manufacturing home-made weapons. With the exception of the British-Jordanian Arab Legion, the invading Arab armies as well as the Palestinian Arab fighters were mainly very disorganized. Well, not our fault they started a war they were unprepared for!
I was never on a tour bus in Israel. I lived in a kibbutz for 7 1/2 months. I travelled on the Egged company public buses. Once a bus took a group to spend the night walking the walls of Old Jerusalem and once the kibbutz took a bus down to Sinai after the Camp David Agreement.
Kibbutz--that even worst that a bus tour! Becuase in those places is where you really get brainwashed. I bet you haven't even seen a single clip of these vidieos and you just commenting!
Six million plus Jews makes them the principal victims of the holocaust. Of course I know that the gypsies, many individuals, Catholics, Communists and Protestants died there too.
Really, when 15 million peopel perrished in thise concentration camps let see do that math, 6 million out of 15 doesn't make them the majority! They were nto the principal victims of the holoucost get or facts straight lepercon bitch!
AH no, here is where you engagin in holopcust denial that only jewish grousp are experts at---While they down plkay that 15 million peopel died, issist it was 8 million people they still insist that 6 million jew3s died without progivng proff, eventhough we have only 2.5 million names of jews documented. SO if you gonna say only 8 miilion people died than you better say that only 2.5 million jews died or just admit that 15 millionj people died, new jes out numered the jews!
Read my postings again, I mentioned the Gypsies, the Christians who fell foul of the Nazis,Communists and homosexuals. The Nazis also got rid of mentally and phsically disabled people.
I know English is not your first language but please try and keep up.Six million + Jews were murdered. That is a fact and they were the largest ethnic and religious group to be systematically murdered by the Nazis.
irishxxkelt wrote that "Jews were the largest single ethnic and religious group to be systematically murdered by the Nazis". That does not mean that of the 15 million civilians exterminated by Nazis , more Jews than anybody else were exterminated, it means that they were the group that was SINGLED OUT. For example, many Poles were also killed, but Poles were not singled out as a group for total annihilation, and proportionately fewer were killed.
I am surprised this coming from an Irish thats if you are a true Irish, I have great respect to the Irish Poeple and their struggle for a united Ireland, Palestinians would rather keep tel aviv (tal erabee3) a sand dunes.The so-called isreal days are numbered, Palestine will be free and the 5 million refugees will return home.
Did you ever hear of the Good Friday Agreement when one of the conditions was that the Republic of Ireland ceassed to have any claim over Northern Ireland until the people of Northern Ireland democratically decide to be no longer part of Great Britain. The plain people of Ireland were sick and tired of seeing atrocities being committed in our name. God brought the Jews home and after 1900 years that is a miracle. Having been attacked from outside and within Israel should not exist but it does.
I believe poeple in the south and the north should decide wether the 6 counties to be part of the uk or not hence the land called Ireland . back to Palestine, well Palestininas existed in Palestine well before Judism even existed and also I`ll be interesed to see how the world will look like if we have to re arrange the world to how it was 1900 years ago, I can only say that you need alot to learn about Palestine and the region.
LOL There never were a Palestinian race. Even Palestinian Arabs accept that. It was an invention of the 50s and the 60s. The Israelis had kings and written laws when the Arabs were burying baby girls alive. The Arabs in Israel are Syrians like the Jordanians and Lebanese Muslims. The people in Ireland agree to the rights of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland to remain British.
Jeff Fisher's Peace Plan for the Children of the Book.
Jeff loves all & that means Palestine will come to Nationhood before March 17th 2009 with Al Gore & Cynthia Ann McKinney leading the way restoring America also,
Mr. Obama is really born in Kenya, not Hawaii. Spread this everywhere to break the Zionistic Controlled media Forever.
Signed,
An American Pure Christian Patriot Jeff BootStraps Jante Degaul. whizkid1983-1986 Melchizedec Fisher
Will 36% rise in Anti-Palestinian hate crimes--Association 4 civil right in Israel Anual report. 65% of Israeli Jews do not think Palestinians living in Israel should have equal rights,80% Israeli Youth think Palestinians & Arabs are unclean.85% of Jews in ISrael & the US think that Palestnians & Arabs have a goal of killing all jews off the planet,68% believe Jerusalem shoudl not be shared & 60% careless if Israel settles it differances with Arab neighbors.Yuip a bunch of Racist Paraniod filths
Land being confescated----& the KKKIKKKES keep bitching about how the lands of Arab jews was confescated in various Arabic countries--which is a complete lie! The jews in those countreis volutarily migrated to sirael & have never been certified as refugees!--Yet the Aparthied KKKIKKKES are confescating land of poeple who don't share the same faith!
When you say they who are you talking baout? Arab Jews where not expelled dummy, Jewish agencies and Zionists organization went to those countires and secretely airlited them and brought to ISrael for demographic reason dummie, get you facts straight!
What would you know living in Venezuela? I have been to Israel and lived there for 71/2 months. Go learn about the Jews of Baghdad who numbered in their thousands, there are less than 24 people there. They didn't have any interest in Israel but were eventually were airlifted. Israel didn't leave its refugees in camps for 60 years, 2 years at most.
I know becuase partof my family is Palestinian--being in Israel and living there for 7 half months doesn't mean you will find out hwat is really going on, especially if you didn't associate verymuch withthe palestinains living in Israel. I already know about the jews in Baghdad in the 1950s Zionist forces secretly scared them and airlefted them into Israel makingthen think ifthey remian in baghdad they woudlget killed, not true, they broughtthem to israel for demographic reasons!
Scared them? They didn't want anything to do with Israel but when the Iraqi Arabs along egged on by Hitler's best friend the Mufti of Jerusalem started to harrass and murder them, what else could they do? Some went to India and Iran,some were airlifted. Go read a history book!
You need to go read a history book -a history book that isn't written by a zionist or watch this documentary closely Lepercon boy! All of that stuff was ustter nonsense---the zionist sacred iraqis jews and give them money to immigrate to Israel for demographic reasons. Why don't you watch Ezra the last Jew of babylon to see if Arabs really do hate jews or if they just have a problem with the philosophy of Zionism!
Do I call you names? By the way I am a woman,nearly 53. Last year I read a book written by an Englsih Jew about finding out about her Iraqi grandmother's life back in Baghdad in the early part of the 20th century. It is a story of a family not propaganda. I suggest you get it "Last Days in Babylon:The story of the Jews of Baghdad" by Marina Benjamin.
OK then your must be a lepercon gal--who has selctive hearings who think just becuase she went to Israel she knows what is going on---by the way--most ofhte lie & exagerrate to paint thier lifestories as vicitms--when in fact none of what they claim is true---lepercon gal! Why dont watch Ezra the last jew of Babylon!
The horrors of the holocoust--which jews where not the only victims niether the principal vicitims--but one of the vicitims--does nto justify a racist philosophy to expelling people who are natives of palestine to establihs is apathierd style homland only for jews becuase you suffered form teh holocoust or beucase your bible says god designated this ladn to you!
I hung out with Palestinians when I went back in 1981, Palestinians from Shuafat. No Arab wants the Palestinians. In Lebanon they cannot become doctors, engineers or barbers! They cannot even get passports despite being born there.
Interesting I guess the idea that nieghboring countries want to do everythign so that the palestinian refugees and their descendants can maintian thier identity so that one day they can return to thier homes didn't occur to you. So Lepercon Boy you live in Israel for 7 years and you never met a single palestinain living in Jaffa or Hiafa. Did you know that if Palestians leave the country they will not be bale to return to Israel. Manybe the Beturit business men on this show are a hoax? :P
They don't want them. Everyone with half a brain can see that. Israel hasn't left its refugees in squalid camps for 60+ years. I never said I lived in Israel for 7 years. I lived there for 7 months and yes I made friends with Palestinians from East Jerusalem.
So Lpercon gal never made any freind with palestianins inside israel, I guess you might understand what life might be like under occupation if you met palestians in East Jerusalem.
"Interesting I guess the idea that nieghboring countries want to do everythign so that the palestinian refugees and their descendants can maintian thier identity so that one day they can return to thier homes"
Wow, what a humanitarian idea, for Arab governments to deny people who speak the same language and share the same culture as fellow Arabs their basic rights and refuse to integrate them into society so they can nurture a sense of being refugees forever! Brilliant!
Absolutely it make since, it's like some group of Europeans deciding that they want to come Uruguay and create a state for themselves becuase they were persecuted in Europe and God choose Uruguay for them, they come by force establish a state and tell the Uruguayans go to Argentina or Paraguay or other places you still hispanics and speak the same language. And you got all this land to live it, the place that was formally called Uruguay is ours now! Afrikaners used it too vs blacks in africa.
"it's like some group of Europeans deciding that they want to come Uruguay"
Actually, that is the history of Uruguay. It was founded by Europeans and the majority Indian population was wiped out. Uruguay, much like Argentina, has few indigenous citizens--the Guarani are found mostly in Paraguay. However, unlike Uruguay, the Israeli Jews have demonstrable ancestral and historical connections to the Land going back thousands of years and there has always been a significant Jewish presence here.
I remember talking to you once in the past on another channel. You're the raving lunatic who kept on making statements that all Biblical verses always used to use the word "Palestine" and never "Israel" until the Jews changed all the Bibles 60 years ago. You think somehow Zionist Jews obtained all Bibles, in all languages, all over the world and edited them! :-) You also ranted on my channel page in all caps and accuse me of trying to silence you. Don't worry, I like when crazy people rant!
Hey, I checked my page, your crazy rant is still there! :-)
I made a mistake though, it's not in all caps.
You're a funny little guy, you know?
Several times you accuse me of trying to "silence" people, then you tell me I have nothing better to do with my life than comment on youtube? (Tell me, why are you commenting on youtube?) and then, you write on my page with the accusation that I try to censor you, and you block me from responding on your page! Funny, funny, funny!
Isreal didn't leaveit's refugees in camps, Israel created the palestianis refugees crisis to begin with, andmost Jewishimmigrants to Israel were tno refugees they immigrated to israel becuase theisraeli gov't paidthen to do so and promised them betterlife and all that non-sense. I don't neeed to spenmymoneyin a racist aparthied state to know whatis really going on dummie! Perhaps you shoudl watch this documentary closely!
The Palestinians were got at by propaganda and were told that the Syrians and Egyptians were going to come in and massacre all the Jews and to avoid bloodshed they were advised to leave. Israel survived being strangled at birth and the "Palestinians" were left in no-mans land. If Israel didn't survive Egypt and Syria had plans to divide Israel between them.
Lepercon boy you need to watch this docuemntery a little more closely, becuase the palestians got expelled by force and guns of the zionist terrorist malititas with help from Us, Brititan & france, how the hell egypt & syria were gonna defet a force that had the backing for 3 western powers, not to mention thier navy ships were near by to make sure they win. Palestine is Palestine.....you need to go read history lepercon boy!
LOL! Surviving attackas miraculously with the bakcing of the 3 main global powers of the world US, britian & france--oh sure---and they were nto atacked by 7 armies, in 1948 they attacked frist, in 1956 israel attakced first and in 1967 israel attacked first, only 1972 yum kippur Egypt & Syria attacked first. And they did expelled form thier homes lepercon gal!
Your really out of wack here!, Becuase the only one expelled from thier homes where Palestinains. Russia didn't arm anyone, it arms some of the arab countries but not to the same elvel, france, britian & US supported israel. Hello in 1948 Us, British, & French naval forces were there to make sure israle does expell the palestianins. In 1952 & 1956 France fought with Israel during the Suez canal wars! In 1967 the Us naval forces where near by to make sure Israel is winning the 1967 war.
History: Russia courted Egypt Syria and even Iraq and trained their pilots. I would love nothing more than everyone live together in peace there. But land for peace is not working. Look at Gaza, Hamas rules and they destroyed all the settlers homes and glasshouses and has sent 8000 rockets into Israel.
Ah no! You even have you fact all wrong again Russia didn't even train or arm the arm armies as nearly as britian, france, and US armed and supported Israel and even fought along side Israel, Hamas did not send 8,000 into Israel, in the last 10 yearsz, those rocket attacks only killed 25 SIraelis, while Israel has killed morethan 25,000 palestinains, the settlement are illegal under international law--and Hamas was dmeocratiucally elected, you bumd lepercon bitch! Go eat some kosher pussy!
Election was farce, then why did international organization inclduing the carter center certify it as the freest & fairst election int he nmiddle eaast, you such dumb bitch!You eat kosher pussy because that what you ahve been eating and you acting like an ss here dumb lepercon btich!
For 53 year old Irish women you express youself like you ahve been eating kosher pussy all you life and wwathicng Fox news & CNN & acting like an child in great big body Grtingo form the USA!
In my country pussy is a pet name for a cat. I have never eaten cat. In Ireland we have our own TV stations . I don't watch CNN or Fox. "Child in great big Gtringo form the USA"???????????? What is that please?
International organizations who are anti-Israel.........what else are they going to say.Keep showing everyone on YouTube that you are an immature foul-mouthed apologist for the Palestinians.
Ah so telling the truth about israel make them anti-israel, well good then becuase israel is a racist parthied state--I'd bet you be defending the white boaers of south africa the same way your defending the zionist jews here. Go fuck you self lepercon bitch!
I bet you have never left Venezuela. You are repeating the usual anti-Jewish clap-trap that I have seen all over YouTube. I cannot have sexual intercourse with myself. Do you even know how babies are made?
I've been to allot more places than you--against I say watch this docuemtneary in it's entirety--and I'm tired of hearing you anti-palestianins & anti-muslim, anti-arab crap that I see all over you tube when ever they ahve vidioes that tell the truth about the racist aparthied state of israel Lepercon gal!
"Election was farce, then why did international organization inclduing the carter center certify it as the freest & fairst election int he nmiddle eaast,"
Oh, no doubt Hamas won. Hitler also won democratically. And it's also true that Hamas subsequently persecuted its rivals Fatah, in Gaza. Hamas believes in "one man, one vote, one time"...very much like other democratically elected authoritarian regimes, Chavez, Mugabe, etc. But Fatah is just as bad anyway.
Israel attacked first this even addmitted by the Johnson administration in the Declasiffied documents of the National Security archives, you living in a fatasy land and you got lots and lots of free time on you hand to hear you self speak garbage, you must like all hte free money your getting from your own country to live the easy life in Israel.
"s even addmitted by the Johnson administration in the Declasiffied documents of the National Security archives"
I gather English is not your first language but you still must improve your reading comprehension. Everybody knows that Israel struck first in response to Nasser's provocations, e.g., removing the UN forces from Sinai, massing troops on the border, closing the Straits of Tiran and explicit verbal threats to invade Israel, all acts of war. That is what I wrote--it's not in dispute.
"all hte free money your getting from your own country to live the easy life in Israel."
What do you mean, my own country? My own country is Israel--and as I keep on telling you, as a hard-working Israeli citizen, I must pay very high taxes ro the Israeli government. Do you really think Americans pay more taxes than Israelis do? If I wanted to pay less taxes, I would have stayed in the US. But there is more to life than money. Life in Israel is not easy, but it's worth it for me.
Although Israel clearly attacked Egypt first in self-defense and in a response to Nasser's provocations, it did not attack Jordan first--but begged Jordan to stay out of the war. King Hussein even discusses this at length in his autobiography,
"Your really out of wack here!, Becuase the only one expelled from thier homes where Palestinains."
Well, back in 1948-9, local Arabs were not known collectively as "Palestinians" in the sense of a national group, both Jews and Arabs residing in the British Mandate were both known as "Palestinians". Nevertheless, in 1949 Jews were expelled from areas of the former British Mandate of Palestine that came to be occupied by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
Ah no! You even have you fact all wrong again Russia didn't even train or arm the arm armies as nearly as britian, france, and US armed and supported Israel and even fought along side Israel, Hamas did not send 8,000 into Israel, in the last 10 yearsz, those rocket attacks only killed 25 SIraelis, while Israel has killed morethan 25,000 palestinains, the settlement are illegal under international law--and Hamas was dmeocratiucally elected, you bumd lepercon bitch! Go eat some kosher pussy!
it did and the proof is that many of the buildings like aiports are soviet style buildings and we even met a little Syrian boy who was telling us that his Dad was in Russia. It is a known fact that Hamas has sent 8000 missiles into Israel.
Ah no you didn't you just believed anyhting and any gabage the Jews were throwing at you! And this 8,000 numer is not anywhere near acurate dummie lpercon bitch, but 25,000 palestinains killed by israel during the last 10 years is a fact --get alife & watch is docuemtnary instead of acting as a tech junkie for the israeli gov't!
Really! You certiuanlky do look like your getting allof you information from Fox news and never stepped ouyt of htat Israeli tour bus--when you travleed there!
"Russia didn't even train or arm the arm armies as nearly as britian, france, and US armed and supported Israel and even fought along side Israel,"
The US embargoed Israel in 1948-49. As for British training, it's true that Orde Wingate was a British officer who trained Jewish paramilitaries in the 1930s, he was sympathetic to Zionism but he was removed from his job. Additionally, though, Palestinian Jews obtained British military training because they volunteered in the British army during WW2.
In 1948, as I demonstrated to atom12220, Israel did get a lot of arms from abroad, but not from the US, UK or France.(PostWW2 France was hardly a great power, and Britain was much in decline anyway). The main foreign supplier of arms to Israel was Czechoslovakia, whereas Jordan, Egypt & Iraq, were supplied by Britain. The US was neutral and embargoed Israel at that time. Do better research next time.
It is true that in 1956, Israel colluded with the UK and France to attack Egypt, but remember, Israel had a casus belli against Nasser, who closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, in an attempt to strange our country economically, and permitted fedayeen attacks to occur for 8 years from Gaza. It is important to note that Egypt militarily occupied Gaza at that time also, and did not allow the local Palestinian Arabs self-rule, but did encourage them to attack Israelis from Gaza.
In 1967, Nasser expelled UN peacekeeping forces from Sinai, which had been there since 1956 and again closed the Straits of Tiran to Israel.He then massed his troops and tanks on the border, withdrew many from Yemen (where they had been busy killing Yemenis), he signed a pact with Syria & Jordan and made numerous bellicose announcements at Israel. Israel was totally justified in reacting to these provocations.
Israel reacted preemptively with Egypt. In the case of Jordan, Israel actually begged Jordan to stay out of the fight and not attack Israel...but King Hussein shelled Jeruslaem and Netanya anyway, so in the case of the Jordanian front (the country Israel took the West Bank and Eastern Jerusalem from) it is clear that the Israelis didn't even react preemptively, like they did with Egypt. The Syrians also attacked Israeli territory first in the 6-Day War by trying to capture two kibbutzim.
The Jews whose ancestors lived in Ara lands do not generally refer to themselves as "Arab Jews". My great-grandparents and many relatives of mine by marriage used Arabic as a primary language, but they never regarded themselves as "Arabs", so kindly do not refer to those of us with this background as "Arabs". You have no right to impose this artificial national identity on us.
"jews in those countreis volutarily migrated to sirael "
Some voluntarily migrated, many others fled in terror.
"& have never been certified as refugees!-""
Unlike the Arab countries which (with the exception of Jordan) denied Palestinian Arabs citizenship and housed them in degrading conditions in refugee camps, Israeli Jews who escaped persecution in Egypt, Yemen, Iraq, Syria etc. became Israelis, not eternal "refugees". Just as Pakistan did the same thing with Muslim refugees from India.
I wonder if I could give all of Palestine back would this chick let me put my one eyed snake in her butt.
danwild6 1 year ago
The ministry of foreign affairs is putting great efforts in balancing the media, but we all know it's a battle of numbers. The more we post, blog, talkback, vote the more likely we gain positive sentiment. I was asked by the ministry of foreign affairs to arrange a network of volunteers, who are willing to contribute to this effort. If you're up to it you will receive a daily messages & media package as well as targets. If you wish to participate, please respond to this email.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
You also still haven't justified your allegation about me trying to "silence you". Any of the three lonely people reading the exchanges between you and me can see that several times you accused me of attempting to silence you, but nobody will find any instances of me telling you to shut up. Anyone can click on my channel nickname and see I did not remove the graffiti you scribbled on my channel page 8 months ago also. I love free speech and believe even people like you deserve it.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
The solicitation to become a pro-Israel "media volunteer" also includes a list of media links which the ministry would like addressed by pro-Israel comments:
Dear friends, We hold the [sic] military supremacy, yet fail the battle over the international media. We need to buy time for the IDF to succeed, and the least we can do is spare some (additional) minutes on the net. The ministry of foreign affairs is putting great efforts in balancing the media, but we all know it's a battle of numbers.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Hasbara Spam Alert
With Israel's foreign ministry organising volunteers to flood news websites with pro-Israeli comments, Propaganda 2.0 is here
By Richard Silverstein
January 11, 2009 "The Guardian" -- -...(continuation) Now, we know that the Israeli foreign ministry itself is orchestrating propaganda efforts designed to flood news websites with pro-Israel arguments and information. A reader of my blog has received the following email which documents both the efforts and the agency that origi.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Even if this true (and considering the source, virulent anti-Israel polemicist Richard Silverstein writing in the Guardian,, the veracity is dubious), but let's assume it is true that the Israeli Foreign Ministry officially asked pro-Israel people to do this and that's true. One, there is nothing wrong with it, and two, they are not being paid to do it. How would the pay system even work? You never answered my question. How come YOU, mrshutetr77 are on youtube so much? Are you a paid agent?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Hasbara Spam Alert-With Israel's foreign ministry organising volunteers to flood news websites with pro-Israeli comments, Propaganda 2.0 is here
By Richard Silverstein
January 11, 2009 "The Guardian" -- -The hasbara brigade strikes again! You always hear about Israeli attempts at media manipulation. Everyone knows it's going on but usually the process happens through cyber insurgents like those involved with Giyus (and its media monitoring software, Megaphone).
mrshutter77 2 years ago
ohh come the f__k on man.....there was a war......u lost!...4 armys against one...and lost!......now anywhere in the world when thes a war and you lose.....its over! you lost.....but here...the losers are blowing up on buses and threatning to kill the winners for 60 yrs......
surfingsurfing1 2 years ago
You must be kidding me? You are an ill-informed individual. I, myself, do not have anything against Jews, but they received an unfair advantage from two powerful countries (UK AND US). They did not accomplish the feat on their own. Regardless of who won, their actions are unethical and absolutely unthinkable!
atom11220 2 years ago
"but they received an unfair advantage from two powerful countries (UK AND US). "
Actually, in 1948-49, far from assisting, the US enforced an arms embargo on Israel. The UK actively assisted the Arabs by providing training, weapons and even officers to the Arab Legion of Transjordan. Israeli, however, did benefit from Arab disorganization and bad planning. Israel also received most of its weapons from Czechoslovakia, with Soviet approval and Israelis smuggled weapons from other sources.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"They did not accomplish the feat on their own. "
Israel lost more than 6,000 people out of a pre-war Jewish population of 600,000--that's 1% percent of its population-- to win its War of Independence That's not a small number. Proportionately, it would be as if the USA today lost 3.1 million people in a war lasting about a year. That's how we won in the end--through the sacrifice and willingness to fight and die of our soldiers.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Give me your source of information. This exact collection of knowledge is often taught to Israeli students to make them believe what their country did was honorable. I reiterate that these acts were immoral. Although a significant number, it does not compare to the number of Palestinian lives lost since the start of the war. To the statement below, I will concede to your argument if and only if you give me a source that is unbias. If not, I am inclined to reject your argument.
atom11220 2 years ago
"Give me your source of information."
It's a matter of record that the US had an arms embargo in 1949-49. You can google search terms "embargo" , "israel" "1948" and find numerous sources
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Since you will probably discount the wealth of sites I gave you that discuss the US arms embargo from 1948 on Israel, for a contemporary account, go to the New York times website at nytimes[dot]com, do an "Advanced search" in the Archives using the date range of 1851-1980, and enter in the search terms "israel, "embargo" and "1948". The second result is the following:
(To be continued in next youtube box)
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"British officials are already very much worried about the deterioration of Anglo-American relations over Palestine and they point to the fact that their supplies of arms to the Arab countries are being dried up just as the United States seems to be ready to send arms to Palestine. "
The British had nothing to worry about, because the Americans never armed the Israelis in 1948-49. Moreover, as I stated, the British armed Jordan (then called Transjordan), which was their puppet state then.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Give me your source..."
Okay.
"BRITAIN FEARS U.S. WILL ARM ISRAEL; Shift on Palestine Embargo Spurs Misgivings as London Aid to Arabs Nears End
By HERBERT L. MATTHEWSSpecial to THE NEW YORK TIMES.
May 22, 1948, Saturday
LONDON, May 21 -- Reports from Washington that President Truman plans to lift the arms embargo on Palestine aroused keen misgivings here today. British officials are already very much worried about the deterioration of Anglo-American relations over Palestine"
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Although a significant number, it does not compare to the number of Palestinian lives lost since the start of the war."
The Palestinian Arabs are believed to have suffered anywhere between 8,000 and 15,000 deaths, combatant and non-combatant. When you consider that the Arab population of the British Mandate of Palestine was just over a million, even if you accept the high number of 15,000 Palestinian Arab deaths, that's also about 1.25%, so I am not sure why you say "it does not compare".
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Actually, the 8,000-15,000 figure represents not only Palestinian Arab deaths (combatant and civilian) but also from all the belligerent Arab nations that participated in the Arab invasion of Israel in 1948-49, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq,Lebanon, etc...so the likelihood is that Palestinian Arab deaths were far fewer and and proportionately comparable or less than the casualties suffered by Israeli Jews, at least for 1948-1949.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Regardless of who won, their actions are unethical"
You mean winning a war against enemies that swear to destroy you and expel you from your country is unethical? Do you think the ethical thing to do is die?
"and absolutely unthinkable! "
LOL! You're "absolutely unthinkable"! At least, you don't know how to think clearly.
;-)
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Your arrogance is beyond any bounds. Your proud speech about the Israeli's exudes the common and typical nonsense that zionists commonly regurgitate out of their mouths. You have not provided me with your source of information. I must, however, apologize for your existence. A question (of yours) such as "winning a war against enemies that swear to destroy you and expel you from your country is unethical?" shows your absolute blind belief in the acts of zionism.
atom11220 2 years ago
"You have not provided me with your source of information. "
I gave you several sources, including primary contemporaneous journalistic sources from the period in question that referred to and detailed the American arms embargo on Israel in 1948-49 and that the British actually actively aided the Jordanians, which amply refuted your false assertion that Israel relied on help from Britain and the US in its independence war. Learn some history or learn to read.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
If you wish to see sources of for the approximately 6,000 Israelis killed in the 1948-49 war, I suggest you go to google and enter the words "israeli war of independence total casualties" (Just paste those words in quotes in before the parenthesis) You will find numerous sources that back up my number. Moreover, each and every Israeli military death is cataloged and memorialized online at the Israeli Defence Ministry's website, complete with bios of the fallen, which is at izkor[DOT]gov[DOT]il.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Now, I'm sure you will discredit the sources I gave you, because when you enter those search terms in google, mostly Israeli or Jewish sources come up--but every time there is a military or civilian death here due to the conflict, it is widely reported--several of my own family are memorialized in the IDF online memorial. Do you think they invented fake bios and histories for all the approximately 6,000 Israelis killed in 1948-49?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Just google "onwar[DOT]com" (obviously, replace the [DOT] with an actual period "." , google doesn't allow those in URLs and then type in "Israeli War of Independence 1948-1949" and "casualties" and this will come up-- and the approximate 6,000 total Israeli KIA came up. Obviously, the Arabs also lost many people too, but that's war...
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Your arrogance is beyond any bounds."
The dictionary defines "arrogance" as an "offensive display of superiority or self-importance;overbearing pride.". What does Israel's losing more than 6,000 deaths in the War of 1948 have to do with pride? I wish Israel suffered zero deaths, but sadly, people die in wars. I would rather no one die on any side, but obviously I prefer that more of my enemy die than of my own people. How is that unethical? Since when do ethics require suicide? Answer, please.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
This guy has absolutely nothing better to do with his life, he is on this videos all the time selling the apartheid state. He very happy with all the free money he is getting from his compatriots tax payers, and money that is loaned by impoverished Asians to his gov't in the US so they can give it to him for free.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"This guy has absolutely nothing better to do with his life,"
I do many interesting things in my life. Why do you think you know so much about me?
"he is on this videos all the time"
How much time is "all the time"? I think I had this kind of idiotic debate with you about 8 months ago the last time (according to the ranting comments you left on my page). That's "all the time", in your opinion?
Can you respond to anything I said or "irishxxkelt" said, without a personal attack?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Why are you on youtube so often, ranting and raving and making crazy comments? Do I accuse you of living off the oil wealth or being a paid agent of a government? I do not, because I know very little about you, other than that you say you are of Iranian heritage and live in Venezuela and that you resort to crude language and personal attacks and can't spell or use proper grammar, not only in English, but most likely in Spanish or Farsi as well.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"He very happy with all the free money he is getting from his compatriots tax payers,"
Tell me more about this "free money". Where is my check? Yes, Israel gets about 3 billion a year in US money (so does Egypt, and currently the US spends more on Iraq in a week). US aid to Israel goes right back into the US economy because we have to spend every penny of the "aid" purchasing from the US defense industry. Like many Israelis, I believe we can do very well with far-less US aid.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
You are very well spoken in your words, and thus are able to twist the facts very well. Egypt does get a significant portion of money from the US, BUT it is second to Israel. Also, the reason they get such a large amount is because the government is currently an ally of the US (it supports the blockade of any aid to Palestinian regions in need). Secondly, money is being put forth in Iraq for the selfish agenda of the United States.
atom11220 2 years ago
You're right, Israel gets significant American aid for weapons purchases. I believe we can do quite well without it. Re: the blockade of any aid to Palestinans, know that during the Oslo heyday Israel encouraged the US and EU to give money and invest in them, most of it was squandered or stolen by Arafat and his cronies. As the Palestinian Authority in Gaza under the control of Hamas is actively hostile and belligerent to us, why would we not blockade it?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
LOL You a complete Joke, i have no reason to censur you, but you got all the reason in the world to censur people who disagree with you, which is why you like to spend so much of your time writing on these boards in the hopes that all the other you disagree with are gone. Get a life, because you too comfortable free loading off the US tax payer and all of your comment are bogus and laughable! One day your favorite aoartheid regime will fall. Get a job that is not funded by the US tax payers
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"i have no reason to censur you,"
And yet you did,
" but you got all the reason in the world to censur people who disagree with you""
And yet I did not. On the contrary, as someone from a free society, I always support everyone's right for absolute freedom of expression and thought.Please remember that you scrawled graffiti on my page. I left it up. When you scrawled the graffiti you accused me of trying to silence you--yet you blocked me from responding on your page.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"which is why you like to spend so much of your time writing on these boards "
I think I spend a lot less time on these boards than you do. You never answered why you spend so much time on these boards.
"in the hopes that all the other you disagree with are gone."
Oh, certainly not. It would be very boring if everyone agreed with me--but it amuses me when someone like you writes something wrong, and I enjoy the opportunity to educate others about the flaws in what people like you write.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
What's your point when you say "compatriots tax payers"?
As I said, I live in Israel, have Israeli citizenship and pay Israeli taxes and I benefit from other Israelis' taxes--i.e., government health insurance, something they don't have in the USA. Therefore, by definition, my "compatriots" are Israelis, and in that sense other Israelis' taxes support me, as I support other Israelis. I still hold a US passport though, and file US tax returns in compliance with US law, like all dual citizens must.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
It must be very frustrating for you that you can't censor people who disagree with you by revoking their license to broadcast like the Chavistas do. Just the other day, they shut down opposition station RCTV because they didn't show Chavez's speeches. Still, I think there is slightly more freedom in Venezuela than in Iran,e they don't shoot and rape opponents of the regime like the Basij do. You're a lucky Iranian, eh, enjoying the beaches and the free oil money and beer in Caracas!
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
It seems you have resorted to personal attacks, when you have previously attacked another for doing so. Is that not a bit hypocritical? It seems, however, you will never change your mind. I am, however, interested in knowing your opinion regarding the conflict. Are you a total communist? You seem to have contradictory statements in your argument. At one point you say that Jews made it prosperous and it should belong to them, and at another point you say you do not want casualties on either side.
atom11220 2 years ago
"It seems you have resorted to personal attacks,"
"Mrshutter" made allegations that I have no job and "freeload"--when I actually work two jobs (right now, I am working VERY late--it's nearly 3am n Israel now, on a project for a client in London). I gave him a taste of his own medicine, that's all.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Are you a total communist?"
I assure you that I am very far from being a communist.
"At one point you say that Jews made it prosperous and it should belong to them,"
While it's true Jews have made the country more prosperous, I said nothing like that here. Please read more carefully next time.
"at another point you say you do not want casualties on either side."
Clearly, I don't want any casualties on either side, but naturally I prefer fewer Israeli casualties. Where is the contradiction?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
I apologize my mistake...I meant, are you a total zionist? I was reading something previously.
atom11220 2 years ago
What does that mean, "total Zionist"? I am a Zionist, in that I believe the Jewish people, like any other national or ethnic group, have the right to self-determination in their own state in its historical homeland, which is Israel . Having a Jewish state in Israel does not preclude there being a Palestinian Arab state in part of that same land.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
This is not a religious fight. This is a fight for greed and power. I can come at you with the same story, and say that it continued in the Bible and in the Quran and it said you LOST the land. Because of what? Because you started worshipping statues of cattle!
atom11220 2 years ago
"This is not a religious fight."
Since I did not raise religious reasons as a justification for a Jewish state, I don't know why you are bringing it
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"This is not a religious fight."
Since I did not use religion as a justification for an independent Jewish state, I do not know why you are bringing it up. Know, however, that many Islamic fundamentalists justify their opposition to Jewish independence on religious grounds.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
The contradiction lies in the statements regarding the existence of both entities (no casualties on either side), and yet basically diminishing any possibility of Arab contribution to the culture and society. Basically saying that both should exist, except that Jews are the only ones deserving of existence.
atom11220 2 years ago
re: personal attacks.
I responded to the gentleman's assertions that the only way I could have time to respond is A, if I am unemployed in Israel and "freeloading" from American taxpayers, or B. if I have a job, I must be employed by an Israeli Ministry of Propaganda. I rhetorically asked him the same question--where does he get the time to make his allegations and ludicrous comments? Is he employed to do so or is he freeloading? How is that a personal, ad hominem attack?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
You are clearly an ethnocentric individual who does not want to change his mind. I cannot do so. It is people, such as yourself, that make it nearly impossible for negotiations to take place. If you have not figured by now, I am a Palestinian! Guess what? I thought there would be hope for that region. I have lost all hope for reformation. It seems your mind and the minds of others are set in stone. I will no longer argue this matter any further.
atom11220 2 years ago
"You are clearly an ethnocentric individual"
If you mean by "ethnocentric" that I support the right of my ethnic and national group to have the right of self-determination in its own independent and sovereign state, then I am ethnocentric. If you mean by "ethnocentric" that I am exclusively concerned with my own ethnic group and no other, than I am not ethnocentric.
"If you have not figured by now, I am a Palestinian!"
If you're against ethnic affiliation, why inform me of this fact?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
I hope you will realize that your attitude is atrocious. You seem to be merciless. It is no wonder why Israeli reformers have such a hard time accomplishing anything. They must deal with the likes of you! My only regret is that I have wasted my time responding to your comments.
atom11220 2 years ago
Dude this guy probbaly works for a unit in the foreign ministry assigend to drop Israeli government propaganda on the internet but thay act like regualr folks. If not, he must be too comfy with all the free money he is getting by the US tax payer to sit on his computer and jabber jabber all day long. He has got way too much time on his hand. But I like how you challenge him. Let's expose him till he shut up and gets a job and moves on with his life.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"this guy probbaly works for a unit in the foreign ministry assigend to drop Israeli government propaganda on the internet but thay act like regualr folks"
That makes as much sense as saying that you work for such a unit for Palestinian propaganda department. If they have such a unit, I certainly hope they would be wise enough to hire someone with better reasoning and language skills than you. Although they have mane many blunders in the past, I think they are more sophisticated than that.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"If not, he must be too comfy with all the free money he is getting by the US tax payer."
Tell me, where can I get the "free money"? You seem to know a lot about this.
" to sit on his computer and jabber jabber all day long"
So, in your opinion, is it abnormal to spend perhaps 45 minutes to an hour perhaps a few times a month (sometimes several months go by where I am not on youtube)--is that "jabbering all day long". I asked you, how DO YOU have so much time?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Let's expose him till he shut up"
You said you have no reason to censor me, yet you want me to shut up. Why is that? Remember, you made a PUBLIC comment on a PUBLIC forum, using your free speech rights. If you make a public comment on a public forum, you should expect someone else will use their free speech rights to disagree with you, PUBLICLY. Now, you may choose not to answer, but if you say something else ridiculous, you should not be surprised when someone like me responds.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"He has got way too much time on his hand."
I actually have very little time, but I also mostly work late nights and evenings and find this kind of thing diverting occasionally.
"But I like how you challenge him."
What "challenge" was I given? To provide a source for the fact that the US imposed an embargo on Israel in 1948-49? That was no challenge. But because I enjoy teaching people, I found atom11220 many sources within seconds, all of which I posted here. You are both welcome.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
mrshutter77, do you seriously think Israel pays people to as you put if "drop Israeli governmnet propaganda on the internet but they act like regular folks"? My God people prefer to believe all sorts of nonsense and suspend any intelligence they might have.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
There have been several articles by various authors inclduing israeli authors and reports about this. If you like I can show you some links. And the very fact that you are responding the way your are responding goes to show you yourself know there is some truth to all of this. Besides for a guys who like just likes to participate in these forum, he has way too much time on his hands and he just can't stop writing to silence all the people who he disagrees,w his baseless areguments leporcon
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Will you stop referring to me as a guy? By the way it is Leprechaun not leporcon.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
@irishxxkelt I think our Venezuelan friend was referring to me, and he was addressing the person named "atom11220"
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Ah thank you for that message....
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Kerrygold Buterres those two articel by Richard Silverstien and Janthan Cooke really did tiwst & turn you brainwashed head.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"Kerrygold BUTERRES? I don't know Richard Silverstien and do you mean Jonathon Cooke.....
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
@mrshutter77 "Besides for a guys who like just likes to participate in these forum, he has way too much time on his hands"
As I said, I don't have very much time on my hands, but more time than I had when I worked as a lawyer in the US. Today, I work anywhere from 45-70 hours a week. This past week I have spent about 90 minutes responding to you and the other guy,which may have been a waste of time, but less time than I used to spend watching TV .
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
The very fact that you are setting here explaing yourself over and over again goes to show you that everything your saying is Bullshit, and you love that other see your baseless propaganda comments which you paid to by ur comptariots tax dollars in the US. The US is ur country, and if you insist that ISrael is your country you just made a big admission as to whom so many US jews are loyal to first when push comes to shove! Thanks for the exposure! Keep enjoying the free US money while it lasts!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"The US is ur country,"
The US is my country in the sense that I happen to have been born there and still hold a US passport (useful for visiting my mother), but for the past 9 years, I have lived in Israel (where I also spent a big part of my childhood), so indeed I am Israeli, and indeed Israel is my country. I am curious as to why you keep insisting that the US is my country. I am happy to discuss my biography (I am my favorite topic) but why do you think you know so much about me?
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"If you insist that ISrael is your country you just made a big admission as to whom so many US jews are loyal to first"
My views about Israel being my country before the US don't reflect the majority of American Jews, most of whom marry non-Jews and are not interested in Israel, sadly enough in my opinion. Probably 90% of US Jews feel themselves to be American first and are leaving the Jewish fold, if it wasn't for Jewhaters like you they wouldn't remember they are Jewish.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"you just made a big admission as to whom so many US jews are loyal to first when push comes to shove!"
Oh, I've always been up-front about my desire to return permanently to Israel. But, when "push comes to shove" , yes I did choose to return to Israel in 2000, and I am very proud of that! 9 years ago, I had a good (but boring) career and the US economy was booming, but I made the decision to come back to Israel right in the middle of the bus and market bombings and awful economy.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Return to Israel? you were never from there, your from the US --but thanks for the admission anyways. Israel's economy never has had any problem & never will because it is being subsidized by the US. Hasbara brigaders shift must starting early!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"Return to Israel? you were never from there, your from the US --but thanks for the admission anyways."
Jews as a nation originate from Israel, and any Jew who moves here returns to his homeland. In my own personal case, my father's family has lived here for many centuries. His mother, my late grandmother, was born in Jerusalem and left with her parents during WW1, first for Egypt, then France and the USA. I also lived here from age 3-10, and again from 30 until now, so I am always at home here.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
You have been exposed! Which is why your justifiying yourself.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"Exposed" how?
I don't make a secret about anything about myself. Hey, I love talking about myself! Ask my ex-wife or my girlfriend. What exactly do you think you have exposed?
What do you mean, "justifying" myself? One justifies oneself when one does something one is ashamed of. I think I have made the best move of my life by returning to live in Israel , and I advocate it all the time for other Jews (but it's not for everyone) whenever I meet Jews from the US.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"your from the US --but thanks for the admission anyways"
It's not a crime to be from the US and I am not ashamed of it--so why do you characterize it as an "admission"?
"Israel's economy never has had any problem & never will" Officially Israel is in recession right now. The economy so far is not feeling so bad, partly because it was never that good to begin with. So far we avoided most of the kind of disasters that affected Wall Street--e.g., Credit Default Swaps and subprime mortgages.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Israel's economy never has had any problem & never will"
Today the unemployment rate in the US is 10%. That's considered pretty bad. In Israel today, we are doing a bit better, like 7.5% or something unemployment. But in 2001-3, we had like 11% unemployment, and the US unemployment rate was 4%. So yeah, when I moved to Israel, the economy was worse here than it was in the US. But I always liked it better here. I did have to live off some savings from my American job though for a while.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
@mrshutter77 " "and he just can't stop writing to silence all the people who he disagrees,"
You have made this accusation frequently, that I have attempted "to silence you" but I find it very odd that you say this, as 1. even if I wanted to silence you, I could not, and 2, I never told you to be silent. You made comments on a public forum which I disagreed with publicly, but I never tried to "silence" you. You even wrote on my personal page, and I left your comments up,while you blocked me.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Web Warfare Team Unveiled
By Jonathan Cook in Nazareth
July 22, 2009 "Information Clearing House"-
Israels Foreign Ministry is reported to be establishing a special undercover team of paid workers whose job it will be to surf the internet 24 hours a day spreading positive news about Israel.
Internet-savvy Israeli youngsters with language skills, are being recruited to pose as ordinary surfers while they provide the governments line on the Middle East conflict......Pretty much explains you!!!!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
LOL, "Information Clearing House"---That's your source? Why do you find it so hard to believe that someone like me loves his country, despite all its flaws, and defends it when someone like you says something wrong? I have asked you several times...you accuse me of either being a paid agent or having no life or no job because I am on this board responding to you. By the same logic then, you must also be a paid agent or have no life because you are making comments on this borad.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Internet-savvy Israeli youngsters with language skills,"
Wow... now I'm a "youngster"--I turned 39 a while back and see 40 approaching, so I have been feeling kind of old lately. My girlfriend always tell me I look so old with gray in my beard, so that makes me feel good!
:-)
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
I do appreciate that you think I'm a youngster, seriously I do. I looked at the Richard Silverstein article, and even if it's true that the Israeli Foreign Ministry asked people to take up Israel's cause, and even if I am part of that effort (I am not) from where do you get that I am a paid employee? Is Ahmadenijad paying you? In your world, are the only people with opinions paid employees of governments. Maybe I can sign up to defend Zimbabwe? Find out if Mugabe is paying!
:-)
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"You seem to be merciless."
If by "merciless" you mean that when I know I am right, I won't let go of an issue when someone else is wrong and I can prove it, then I'm merciless. That's why I am divorced! ;-). Perhaps that's a character flaw. When someone proves to me that I am wrong, I always admit it.
If you mean by "merciless" that I have no compassion, that is false. I even have compassion for Palestinian Arabs, but compassion doesn't require me to give up my rights or my life for them.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
But you see, in this case of war...it was not a war of defense, it was a war of terror. The Israeli Zionists came with two HUGE imperialistic countries and took over what was no longer theirs (they had lost it first). IN ADDITION, do you really think these imperialistic countries care about the fate of the Israeli people....NO! They only care about its existence because it gives them a strategic point in the Midddle East!
atom11220 2 years ago
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"But you see, in this case of war...it was not a war of defense, it was a war of terror."
War always seems like terror for the losers. There were atrocities and killings on both sides, that's what always happens in war.
"The Israeli Zionists came with two HUGE imperialistic countries"
So ridiculously false. If any side had "imperialist" backing, it was the Arabs, as Jordan was supported by the British. (The Egyptians also received some British aid.)
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"The Arab Legion actively participated in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.
Although headed by Glubb, now a Lieutenant General, command in the field was by Brigadier Norman Lash."
The Arab Legion received all its arms from Britain and was commanded mostly by British officers.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Israeli Zionists came with two HUGE imperialistic countries"
Google "John Glubb" and "Arab Legion". Here, I'll make it easier for you." ransjordan/Jordan military.
In September 1923, after Britain created Transjordan...commanded by Capt. Frederick G. Peake, was reorganized and merged with all other forces in Transjordan, and given the name al-Jaysh al-Arabi (Arab Army), more commonly referred to as the Arab Legion. The Legion served as a force for British colonial rule in Transjordan."
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
" Like the modern Jordanian army, the Arab Legion was widely viewed as the best-trained and best-equipped army in the Arab world.
The Arab Legion began as a small, elite armed force of a little over a thousand men. Peake organized it to high efficiency, recruiting Arab volunteers from Transjordan, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, and Hijaz."
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
As I said, however, in 1948-49, despite the US arms embargo Israel did procure many weapons, mostly from then Communist Czechoslovakia, and utilizing connections of Eastern European Jews in that region. Israel also benefited from many foreign volunteers (mainly of Jewish background) who had acquired military experience fighting in the allied forces during WW2, as well as local Jewish veterans who had fought for the British forces during WW2 and gained sound knowledge of military tactics.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
So, indeed the Israelis had a distinct advantage--they did not get any help from the US or the UK (contrary to your assertion) but they obtained weapons indirectly from the USSR and were resourceful at smuggling/procuring and even manufacturing home-made weapons. With the exception of the British-Jordanian Arab Legion, the invading Arab armies as well as the Palestinian Arab fighters were mainly very disorganized. Well, not our fault they started a war they were unprepared for!
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
لن نرحلللللللللللللللللل هنا باقون ولو كره الكافرون موتوا بغيظكم يا أعداء اللّة -عجمي
tima475 2 years ago 2
I wonder if I replanted all the trees would this babe suck my cock.
danwild6 2 years ago
How many part 3's are there? I'm just a bit confused.
Regards,
Puder
Pudersepp 2 years ago
yeah me too.......
translationwiz 2 years ago
I was never on a tour bus in Israel. I lived in a kibbutz for 7 1/2 months. I travelled on the Egged company public buses. Once a bus took a group to spend the night walking the walls of Old Jerusalem and once the kibbutz took a bus down to Sinai after the Camp David Agreement.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Kibbutz--that even worst that a bus tour! Becuase in those places is where you really get brainwashed. I bet you haven't even seen a single clip of these vidieos and you just commenting!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
And you have been to a kibbutz too? Stop making a total fool of yourself.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
I resent being told to indulge in oral sex with another women by a stupid childish someone from Latin America.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Six million plus Jews makes them the principal victims of the holocaust. Of course I know that the gypsies, many individuals, Catholics, Communists and Protestants died there too.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Really, when 15 million peopel perrished in thise concentration camps let see do that math, 6 million out of 15 doesn't make them the majority! They were nto the principal victims of the holoucost get or facts straight lepercon bitch!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
6+ milllion Jews and the next biggest group were the 3/4 million gypsies. Keep your foul mouth to yourself.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
AH no, here is where you engagin in holopcust denial that only jewish grousp are experts at---While they down plkay that 15 million peopel died, issist it was 8 million people they still insist that 6 million jew3s died without progivng proff, eventhough we have only 2.5 million names of jews documented. SO if you gonna say only 8 miilion people died than you better say that only 2.5 million jews died or just admit that 15 millionj people died, new jes out numered the jews!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Well unlike Muslims especially the president of Iran I do not deny the holocaust.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Muslims do not deny the Holocoust & niether does the president of Iran, BUt you seem to be! Especailly it's non-jewish vicitms!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Read my postings again, I mentioned the Gypsies, the Christians who fell foul of the Nazis,Communists and homosexuals. The Nazis also got rid of mentally and phsically disabled people.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
I know English is not your first language but please try and keep up.Six million + Jews were murdered. That is a fact and they were the largest ethnic and religious group to be systematically murdered by the Nazis.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Ah nope there where more non jews that where holoust victims than jews where so sorry.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Your reading comprehension is indeed very poor.
irishxxkelt wrote that "Jews were the largest single ethnic and religious group to be systematically murdered by the Nazis". That does not mean that of the 15 million civilians exterminated by Nazis , more Jews than anybody else were exterminated, it means that they were the group that was SINGLED OUT. For example, many Poles were also killed, but Poles were not singled out as a group for total annihilation, and proportionately fewer were killed.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
yafa haifa akar palestinian towns and will be oneday palestine will be free and those settlers will go back where come from ... long live Palestine
salem61 2 years ago 2
Tel Aviv was only sand dunes back then.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago 2
I am surprised this coming from an Irish thats if you are a true Irish, I have great respect to the Irish Poeple and their struggle for a united Ireland, Palestinians would rather keep tel aviv (tal erabee3) a sand dunes.The so-called isreal days are numbered, Palestine will be free and the 5 million refugees will return home.
salem61 2 years ago 3
Did you ever hear of the Good Friday Agreement when one of the conditions was that the Republic of Ireland ceassed to have any claim over Northern Ireland until the people of Northern Ireland democratically decide to be no longer part of Great Britain. The plain people of Ireland were sick and tired of seeing atrocities being committed in our name. God brought the Jews home and after 1900 years that is a miracle. Having been attacked from outside and within Israel should not exist but it does.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
I believe poeple in the south and the north should decide wether the 6 counties to be part of the uk or not hence the land called Ireland . back to Palestine, well Palestininas existed in Palestine well before Judism even existed and also I`ll be interesed to see how the world will look like if we have to re arrange the world to how it was 1900 years ago, I can only say that you need alot to learn about Palestine and the region.
salem61 2 years ago 2
LOL There never were a Palestinian race. Even Palestinian Arabs accept that. It was an invention of the 50s and the 60s. The Israelis had kings and written laws when the Arabs were burying baby girls alive. The Arabs in Israel are Syrians like the Jordanians and Lebanese Muslims. The people in Ireland agree to the rights of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland to remain British.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Google GOD loves Jeff Fisher and Jane Bowell.
Jeff Fisher's Peace Plan for the Children of the Book.
Jeff loves all & that means Palestine will come to Nationhood before March 17th 2009 with Al Gore & Cynthia Ann McKinney leading the way restoring America also,
Mr. Obama is really born in Kenya, not Hawaii. Spread this everywhere to break the Zionistic Controlled media Forever.
Signed,
An American Pure Christian Patriot Jeff BootStraps Jante Degaul. whizkid1983-1986 Melchizedec Fisher
LoveAmericaStyle 3 years ago
Will 36% rise in Anti-Palestinian hate crimes--Association 4 civil right in Israel Anual report. 65% of Israeli Jews do not think Palestinians living in Israel should have equal rights,80% Israeli Youth think Palestinians & Arabs are unclean.85% of Jews in ISrael & the US think that Palestnians & Arabs have a goal of killing all jews off the planet,68% believe Jerusalem shoudl not be shared & 60% careless if Israel settles it differances with Arab neighbors.Yuip a bunch of Racist Paraniod filths
mrshutter77 3 years ago 2
Land being confescated----& the KKKIKKKES keep bitching about how the lands of Arab jews was confescated in various Arabic countries--which is a complete lie! The jews in those countreis volutarily migrated to sirael & have never been certified as refugees!--Yet the Aparthied KKKIKKKES are confescating land of poeple who don't share the same faith!
mrshutter77 3 years ago
They were expelled and they were there thousands of years.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
When you say they who are you talking baout? Arab Jews where not expelled dummy, Jewish agencies and Zionists organization went to those countires and secretely airlited them and brought to ISrael for demographic reason dummie, get you facts straight!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
What would you know living in Venezuela? I have been to Israel and lived there for 71/2 months. Go learn about the Jews of Baghdad who numbered in their thousands, there are less than 24 people there. They didn't have any interest in Israel but were eventually were airlifted. Israel didn't leave its refugees in camps for 60 years, 2 years at most.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
I know becuase partof my family is Palestinian--being in Israel and living there for 7 half months doesn't mean you will find out hwat is really going on, especially if you didn't associate verymuch withthe palestinains living in Israel. I already know about the jews in Baghdad in the 1950s Zionist forces secretly scared them and airlefted them into Israel makingthen think ifthey remian in baghdad they woudlget killed, not true, they broughtthem to israel for demographic reasons!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Scared them? They didn't want anything to do with Israel but when the Iraqi Arabs along egged on by Hitler's best friend the Mufti of Jerusalem started to harrass and murder them, what else could they do? Some went to India and Iran,some were airlifted. Go read a history book!
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
You need to go read a history book -a history book that isn't written by a zionist or watch this documentary closely Lepercon boy! All of that stuff was ustter nonsense---the zionist sacred iraqis jews and give them money to immigrate to Israel for demographic reasons. Why don't you watch Ezra the last Jew of babylon to see if Arabs really do hate jews or if they just have a problem with the philosophy of Zionism!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Do I call you names? By the way I am a woman,nearly 53. Last year I read a book written by an Englsih Jew about finding out about her Iraqi grandmother's life back in Baghdad in the early part of the 20th century. It is a story of a family not propaganda. I suggest you get it "Last Days in Babylon:The story of the Jews of Baghdad" by Marina Benjamin.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
OK then your must be a lepercon gal--who has selctive hearings who think just becuase she went to Israel she knows what is going on---by the way--most ofhte lie & exagerrate to paint thier lifestories as vicitms--when in fact none of what they claim is true---lepercon gal! Why dont watch Ezra the last jew of Babylon!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Funny the people some of the people in the Kibbutz survived the holocuast.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
The horrors of the holocoust--which jews where not the only victims niether the principal vicitims--but one of the vicitims--does nto justify a racist philosophy to expelling people who are natives of palestine to establihs is apathierd style homland only for jews becuase you suffered form teh holocoust or beucase your bible says god designated this ladn to you!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
I hung out with Palestinians when I went back in 1981, Palestinians from Shuafat. No Arab wants the Palestinians. In Lebanon they cannot become doctors, engineers or barbers! They cannot even get passports despite being born there.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Interesting I guess the idea that nieghboring countries want to do everythign so that the palestinian refugees and their descendants can maintian thier identity so that one day they can return to thier homes didn't occur to you. So Lepercon Boy you live in Israel for 7 years and you never met a single palestinain living in Jaffa or Hiafa. Did you know that if Palestians leave the country they will not be bale to return to Israel. Manybe the Beturit business men on this show are a hoax? :P
mrshutter77 2 years ago
They don't want them. Everyone with half a brain can see that. Israel hasn't left its refugees in squalid camps for 60+ years. I never said I lived in Israel for 7 years. I lived there for 7 months and yes I made friends with Palestinians from East Jerusalem.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
So Lpercon gal never made any freind with palestianins inside israel, I guess you might understand what life might be like under occupation if you met palestians in East Jerusalem.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"Interesting I guess the idea that nieghboring countries want to do everythign so that the palestinian refugees and their descendants can maintian thier identity so that one day they can return to thier homes"
Wow, what a humanitarian idea, for Arab governments to deny people who speak the same language and share the same culture as fellow Arabs their basic rights and refuse to integrate them into society so they can nurture a sense of being refugees forever! Brilliant!
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Absolutely it make since, it's like some group of Europeans deciding that they want to come Uruguay and create a state for themselves becuase they were persecuted in Europe and God choose Uruguay for them, they come by force establish a state and tell the Uruguayans go to Argentina or Paraguay or other places you still hispanics and speak the same language. And you got all this land to live it, the place that was formally called Uruguay is ours now! Afrikaners used it too vs blacks in africa.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"it's like some group of Europeans deciding that they want to come Uruguay"
Actually, that is the history of Uruguay. It was founded by Europeans and the majority Indian population was wiped out. Uruguay, much like Argentina, has few indigenous citizens--the Guarani are found mostly in Paraguay. However, unlike Uruguay, the Israeli Jews have demonstrable ancestral and historical connections to the Land going back thousands of years and there has always been a significant Jewish presence here.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
I remember talking to you once in the past on another channel. You're the raving lunatic who kept on making statements that all Biblical verses always used to use the word "Palestine" and never "Israel" until the Jews changed all the Bibles 60 years ago. You think somehow Zionist Jews obtained all Bibles, in all languages, all over the world and edited them! :-) You also ranted on my channel page in all caps and accuse me of trying to silence you. Don't worry, I like when crazy people rant!
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Hey, I checked my page, your crazy rant is still there! :-)
I made a mistake though, it's not in all caps.
You're a funny little guy, you know?
Several times you accuse me of trying to "silence" people, then you tell me I have nothing better to do with my life than comment on youtube? (Tell me, why are you commenting on youtube?) and then, you write on my page with the accusation that I try to censor you, and you block me from responding on your page! Funny, funny, funny!
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Isreal didn't leaveit's refugees in camps, Israel created the palestianis refugees crisis to begin with, andmost Jewishimmigrants to Israel were tno refugees they immigrated to israel becuase theisraeli gov't paidthen to do so and promised them betterlife and all that non-sense. I don't neeed to spenmymoneyin a racist aparthied state to know whatis really going on dummie! Perhaps you shoudl watch this documentary closely!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
The Palestinians were got at by propaganda and were told that the Syrians and Egyptians were going to come in and massacre all the Jews and to avoid bloodshed they were advised to leave. Israel survived being strangled at birth and the "Palestinians" were left in no-mans land. If Israel didn't survive Egypt and Syria had plans to divide Israel between them.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Lepercon boy you need to watch this docuemntery a little more closely, becuase the palestians got expelled by force and guns of the zionist terrorist malititas with help from Us, Brititan & france, how the hell egypt & syria were gonna defet a force that had the backing for 3 western powers, not to mention thier navy ships were near by to make sure they win. Palestine is Palestine.....you need to go read history lepercon boy!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
They left their homes by themselves and when 7 armies attacked Israel, Israel survived as it has survived other attacks miraculously.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
LOL! Surviving attackas miraculously with the bakcing of the 3 main global powers of the world US, britian & france--oh sure---and they were nto atacked by 7 armies, in 1948 they attacked frist, in 1956 israel attakced first and in 1967 israel attacked first, only 1972 yum kippur Egypt & Syria attacked first. And they did expelled form thier homes lepercon gal!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Considering that the all the Arabs were armed by Russia and also France. Oh the Egyptian and Syrians were expelled from their homes too?
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Your really out of wack here!, Becuase the only one expelled from thier homes where Palestinains. Russia didn't arm anyone, it arms some of the arab countries but not to the same elvel, france, britian & US supported israel. Hello in 1948 Us, British, & French naval forces were there to make sure israle does expell the palestianins. In 1952 & 1956 France fought with Israel during the Suez canal wars! In 1967 the Us naval forces where near by to make sure Israel is winning the 1967 war.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
History: Russia courted Egypt Syria and even Iraq and trained their pilots. I would love nothing more than everyone live together in peace there. But land for peace is not working. Look at Gaza, Hamas rules and they destroyed all the settlers homes and glasshouses and has sent 8000 rockets into Israel.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Ah no! You even have you fact all wrong again Russia didn't even train or arm the arm armies as nearly as britian, france, and US armed and supported Israel and even fought along side Israel, Hamas did not send 8,000 into Israel, in the last 10 yearsz, those rocket attacks only killed 25 SIraelis, while Israel has killed morethan 25,000 palestinains, the settlement are illegal under international law--and Hamas was dmeocratiucally elected, you bumd lepercon bitch! Go eat some kosher pussy!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Democratically elected LOOOOOOOOL . Fatah members and supporters have had to leave Gaza or risk being killed by Hamas. The elections were a farce.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Election was farce, then why did international organization inclduing the carter center certify it as the freest & fairst election int he nmiddle eaast, you such dumb bitch!You eat kosher pussy because that what you ahve been eating and you acting like an ss here dumb lepercon btich!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
Because they were in denial. I am a heterosexual woman. For a 30 year old you express yourself like a hormonal 14 year old boy.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
For 53 year old Irish women you express youself like you ahve been eating kosher pussy all you life and wwathicng Fox news & CNN & acting like an child in great big body Grtingo form the USA!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
In my country pussy is a pet name for a cat. I have never eaten cat. In Ireland we have our own TV stations . I don't watch CNN or Fox. "Child in great big Gtringo form the USA"???????????? What is that please?
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
International organizations who are anti-Israel.........what else are they going to say.Keep showing everyone on YouTube that you are an immature foul-mouthed apologist for the Palestinians.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Ah so telling the truth about israel make them anti-israel, well good then becuase israel is a racist parthied state--I'd bet you be defending the white boaers of south africa the same way your defending the zionist jews here. Go fuck you self lepercon bitch!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
I bet you have never left Venezuela. You are repeating the usual anti-Jewish clap-trap that I have seen all over YouTube. I cannot have sexual intercourse with myself. Do you even know how babies are made?
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
I've been to allot more places than you--against I say watch this docuemtneary in it's entirety--and I'm tired of hearing you anti-palestianins & anti-muslim, anti-arab crap that I see all over you tube when ever they ahve vidioes that tell the truth about the racist aparthied state of israel Lepercon gal!
mrshutter77 2 years ago 3
mrshutter77 said to you:
"Election was farce, then why did international organization inclduing the carter center certify it as the freest & fairst election int he nmiddle eaast,"
Oh, no doubt Hamas won. Hitler also won democratically. And it's also true that Hamas subsequently persecuted its rivals Fatah, in Gaza. Hamas believes in "one man, one vote, one time"...very much like other democratically elected authoritarian regimes, Chavez, Mugabe, etc. But Fatah is just as bad anyway.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Israel attacked first this even addmitted by the Johnson administration in the Declasiffied documents of the National Security archives, you living in a fatasy land and you got lots and lots of free time on you hand to hear you self speak garbage, you must like all hte free money your getting from your own country to live the easy life in Israel.
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"s even addmitted by the Johnson administration in the Declasiffied documents of the National Security archives"
I gather English is not your first language but you still must improve your reading comprehension. Everybody knows that Israel struck first in response to Nasser's provocations, e.g., removing the UN forces from Sinai, massing troops on the border, closing the Straits of Tiran and explicit verbal threats to invade Israel, all acts of war. That is what I wrote--it's not in dispute.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
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"all hte free money your getting from your own country to live the easy life in Israel."
What do you mean, my own country? My own country is Israel--and as I keep on telling you, as a hard-working Israeli citizen, I must pay very high taxes ro the Israeli government. Do you really think Americans pay more taxes than Israelis do? If I wanted to pay less taxes, I would have stayed in the US. But there is more to life than money. Life in Israel is not easy, but it's worth it for me.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Although Israel clearly attacked Egypt first in self-defense and in a response to Nasser's provocations, it did not attack Jordan first--but begged Jordan to stay out of the war. King Hussein even discusses this at length in his autobiography,
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
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mrshutter77 to irishxxkelt:
"Your really out of wack here!, Becuase the only one expelled from thier homes where Palestinains."
Well, back in 1948-9, local Arabs were not known collectively as "Palestinians" in the sense of a national group, both Jews and Arabs residing in the British Mandate were both known as "Palestinians". Nevertheless, in 1949 Jews were expelled from areas of the former British Mandate of Palestine that came to be occupied by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Ah no! You even have you fact all wrong again Russia didn't even train or arm the arm armies as nearly as britian, france, and US armed and supported Israel and even fought along side Israel, Hamas did not send 8,000 into Israel, in the last 10 yearsz, those rocket attacks only killed 25 SIraelis, while Israel has killed morethan 25,000 palestinains, the settlement are illegal under international law--and Hamas was dmeocratiucally elected, you bumd lepercon bitch! Go eat some kosher pussy!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
it did and the proof is that many of the buildings like aiports are soviet style buildings and we even met a little Syrian boy who was telling us that his Dad was in Russia. It is a known fact that Hamas has sent 8000 missiles into Israel.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Ah no you didn't you just believed anyhting and any gabage the Jews were throwing at you! And this 8,000 numer is not anywhere near acurate dummie lpercon bitch, but 25,000 palestinains killed by israel during the last 10 years is a fact --get alife & watch is docuemtnary instead of acting as a tech junkie for the israeli gov't!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
We have our own reporters out there in the Middle East. They happen to be NOT Jewish.
irishxxkelt 2 years ago
Really! You certiuanlky do look like your getting allof you information from Fox news and never stepped ouyt of htat Israeli tour bus--when you travleed there!
mrshutter77 2 years ago
"Russia didn't even train or arm the arm armies as nearly as britian, france, and US armed and supported Israel and even fought along side Israel,"
The US embargoed Israel in 1948-49. As for British training, it's true that Orde Wingate was a British officer who trained Jewish paramilitaries in the 1930s, he was sympathetic to Zionism but he was removed from his job. Additionally, though, Palestinian Jews obtained British military training because they volunteered in the British army during WW2.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"with the bakcing of the 3 main global powers"
In 1948, as I demonstrated to atom12220, Israel did get a lot of arms from abroad, but not from the US, UK or France.(PostWW2 France was hardly a great power, and Britain was much in decline anyway). The main foreign supplier of arms to Israel was Czechoslovakia, whereas Jordan, Egypt & Iraq, were supplied by Britain. The US was neutral and embargoed Israel at that time. Do better research next time.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
It is true that in 1956, Israel colluded with the UK and France to attack Egypt, but remember, Israel had a casus belli against Nasser, who closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, in an attempt to strange our country economically, and permitted fedayeen attacks to occur for 8 years from Gaza. It is important to note that Egypt militarily occupied Gaza at that time also, and did not allow the local Palestinian Arabs self-rule, but did encourage them to attack Israelis from Gaza.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
per mrshutter77
"in 1967 israel attacked first"
In 1967, Nasser expelled UN peacekeeping forces from Sinai, which had been there since 1956 and again closed the Straits of Tiran to Israel.He then massed his troops and tanks on the border, withdrew many from Yemen (where they had been busy killing Yemenis), he signed a pact with Syria & Jordan and made numerous bellicose announcements at Israel. Israel was totally justified in reacting to these provocations.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
Israel reacted preemptively with Egypt. In the case of Jordan, Israel actually begged Jordan to stay out of the fight and not attack Israel...but King Hussein shelled Jeruslaem and Netanya anyway, so in the case of the Jordanian front (the country Israel took the West Bank and Eastern Jerusalem from) it is clear that the Israelis didn't even react preemptively, like they did with Egypt. The Syrians also attacked Israeli territory first in the 6-Day War by trying to capture two kibbutzim.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"Arab Jews where not expelled dummy,"
The Jews whose ancestors lived in Ara lands do not generally refer to themselves as "Arab Jews". My great-grandparents and many relatives of mine by marriage used Arabic as a primary language, but they never regarded themselves as "Arabs", so kindly do not refer to those of us with this background as "Arabs". You have no right to impose this artificial national identity on us.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago
"jews in those countreis volutarily migrated to sirael "
Some voluntarily migrated, many others fled in terror.
"& have never been certified as refugees!-""
Unlike the Arab countries which (with the exception of Jordan) denied Palestinian Arabs citizenship and housed them in degrading conditions in refugee camps, Israeli Jews who escaped persecution in Egypt, Yemen, Iraq, Syria etc. became Israelis, not eternal "refugees". Just as Pakistan did the same thing with Muslim refugees from India.
ShmorgelBorgel 2 years ago