If God was real and prayer really worked then what the fuck are we doing taking medicine? How can you be a theist and really be so ignorant to this. Medicine fixes people, not fucking prayer. But somehow theists ignorantly defend prayer when someone is healed from medicine and in fact suggest it was God work. So delusional.
Well without evidence that there was a "before" the big bang, and the FURTHER evidence that there was "nothing" there, then his misrepresentation of the beginning of the Universe is completely stupid and faith based, and not anything that science truly says.
What is more likely, that the laws of nature have been suspended in your favor and in a way you approve of, or that you've made a mistake - and not witnessed a Miracle?
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
Turek: "The universe exploded into being out of nothing" - he conveniently forgets that for billions of years (not days) afterwards it went through a series of changes that first allowed atoms to form, then gravity collapse clouds of gas atoms into first stars, then fuse those atoms into heavier elements, explode etc. until finally almost ten billion years after its birth our solar system begins to form, & it takes billions more for first basic life to show up<-contrary to his religion's story!
I wonder exactly how drunk The Hitch was during this debate. Either he's a super genius or alcohol fuels his powers. He is AMAZING though, and were I to ever find myself on the opposite side from him in a debate, I'd rethink my position post haste.
He's a weasle, that christian, he just hates when his religious views are hammered. Then when he nit-picks Hitchens argument with foolish "logic" he just but-fucks himself.
3:19 Turek embarrasing himself with logic that escentially took from his arse... "so, if the universe came from nothing then miracles are possible" huh ? wtf man !!
WOOOOW ok dis HITCHENS character is jus sooo pretentious and condescendin .. wut he needs 2 do is take a sciences class and stop relyin so much on rhetoric an analogies .. im sick of dis new ATHEIST moovement dat is militaristic in nature and incompatible wit a democratic societies .. they keep tryna push they agenda on us harmless religious folk and we jus wana believe in sumthin .. so back da fuk up and mind ya businesses
@thereasonabletroll68 you dont think his whole attitude during dis video is condescending? it honestly seems like da guy aint have a ounce of respect 4 his opponent or his beliefs .. dats where i draw da line kiddo .. he jus beein rude and its uncalled 4.
@teenw0lf1971 religious people are the ones pushing their beliefs on everyone else. and if you watch the whole debate, and YOU had to talk to turek the whole time i bet you'd be damn tired of his rediculous arguments
@thereasonabletroll68 his arguments are reasonable an delivered wit a sense of respeck .. if dats wut u consider 2 be "rediculous" then we jus gona have 2 disagree. howeva if u were 2 be in tureks shoes an u had 2 listen 2 dat condescending douche 4 a whole debate babbling in rhetorics and allegory all in a monotone voice .. i think U would be damn tired of da way dat atheism beein represented by dis man hitchens.
@teenw0lf1971 did you see the part where turek started speaking real fast and ended with "thats the argument and i dont have more time to go into detail." well he uses that "excuse" multiple times throughout the debate anytime he is asked a question that undermines his religious beliefs and that actually deserve to be answered. oh and he had plenty of time.. its over a 2 hour debate
@thereasonabletroll68 dats prolly cuz he aint wana go off on a tangent bout stuff dat he knows mr. hitchens already knows. ya see mayne dis debates is timed an they have a moderator 2 let dem know wen they rambling on 4 too long .. turek complies 2 those rules but hitchens keep speakin out of turn and beein rude and condescending .. u jus aint cant see it dat way cuz u agree wit wut hes sayin .. im sayin his delivery is all wrong and it aint da way 2 present a arguments in dis kinda forums.
@thereasonabletroll68 heh. im sorry mayne i didnt know dat dis wuz a regionally exclusive dialect ... wut a mistakes i have made .. i should move 2 compton or "some shit"
The religious of the world war against one another in the names of their imaginary friends, strap bombs to children because a book told them too, and scare those kept ignorant with stories of fire and torture at the hands of a loving God.
I will take atheistic condescension any day of the fucking week...
@Waltham1892 heh. i could be hyperbolic jus like u and say sumthin bout state imposed atheism regimes (like stalins) are some of da most oppressives in history but i wont cuz i know dat aint represent most atheists' . and strappin bombs 2 children because a book told dem 2 certainly aint represent most believers .. in fact .. im pretty sure dat any1 whom is strappin bombs 2 children is doin it as more of a political attacks rather than a spiritual commandment.
If you are not going to be an original thinker, please don't speak.
Stalin was an Atheist, yes, but Hitler was Catholic, so was Musollini.
Add to that the hundreds of years of war between Catholic and Protestant, Catholic and Muslin, Muslim and Jew, and Jew and Pagan, and you have more dead than Stalin ever dreamed of.
Lets add to the butcher's bill all the cultures and people's destroyed by the missionaries in Africa and South America.
@Waltham1892 heh. i guess u didnt undastand my point cuz u jus continued beein hyperbolic .. maybe u missed da part where i said "i could say sumthing bout .... but i wont cuz i know dat aint represent most atheists" .. so lemme try again since u aint undastand... i wuz sayin dat both sides have their share of crazy, sure 1 has more than da other but dats cuz more ppl have been religious than atheists. wut ya gota remember is dat ya cant marginalize a group cuz of da crazies cuz we all got em.
But what do you do when membership in a group requires "crazy"?
If I told you my imaginary friend wants me to murder you because you are wearing cloth of two threads, or because your field has two crops in it, or you are working on a day he doesn't want you to work, you'd call me crazy. Unless, of course, my friend was God. In which case I'm just religious.
@Waltham1892 beein a theist aint mean u are required 2 be crazy .. u aint have 2 adhere 2 da doctrine 2 be a believer.. da only thing it requires is dat u believe in God .. and ya aint have 2 be crazy 2 accept dat proposition cuz ya cant say 4 certain whether its true or not. dats why its a belief and not a fact.
So, the best argument you can come up with is that I should worship an invisible being because I can't prove he isn't there.
Invisible pink unicorns anyone?
Not only do I have to worship this invisible being, who no one can prove is there, but I have to follow all his rules, hate who he wants me to hate, and kill who he wants me to kill.
By the way, you are an adult. Can you write like an adult?
@Waltham1892 heh. wut? i didnt say nothing bout worshipping ... alls i said wuz in order 2 be a theist ya jus have 2 believe in God ... i dont get down on my knees or worship "invisible being" .. i jus believe dat theres a God .. i dont think it gave me any rules.. i aint think dat it wants me 2 hate or kill anyone... i jus believe its there.. so lemme ask u wut is wit dis invisible pink unicorns thing?? sounds like a silly strawman argument 2 me.
@LordCustos3 heh. belief in God aint require u 2 believe in a set of rules dat are set up by organized religions ... like i have already said i am an deist and since there aint no doctrine 4 an deist ur lil comment bout beein tortured 4 eating a meats aint apply here. damn yall need 2 stop wit da strawman arguments an stop putting words in my mouth.
@LordCustos3 "Do. You. Believe. In. an. Invisible. Personal. God?" ... ive said already dat ima deist... "Are you even reading anything that is posted to you?" ... do u not know wut a deist is?? if so then why are ya aksin if i believe in a "personal" God?? no i aint believe in a "personal" God .. so by ur own admission u are usin a strawman arguments.
@thereasonabletroll68 look mayne u jus tryna do a strawman argument on me .. my typing aint da issue dat is beein discussed in dis video so stop tryna changin da topics.
@thereasonabletroll68 nah i got problems wit all da religions .. im actually an deist .. i jus believe there is a God but i aint sayin dat athiests or any1 is da problems .. alls i wuz sayin is dat alotta atheists have da tendency 2 be condescending in their convorsations wit believers and it can be counter-productives 2 da goals of discussions.
@teenw0lf1971 yeah hitchens does seem like that enough. i bet he wouldnt be if he ever had a descussion with someone who is intelligent. but he said it himself, he likes to be a asshole.
@thereasonabletroll68 yea i like dat mans cuz he seems 2 have a casual yet serious approach 2 these debates .. now theres a attitude i can respect. if i were professional debater or author dats wut i woud do.
@nosajj12345 exactly. from deist, ie we dont know maybe a god thingy? to it must a god who loves me, sent his son to earth by impregnating a Palestinian from space and hates science and gays
It is just amazing to me. Here you have Turek who seams to be a competant capible man, that clearly is struggling to make sence of it all. The shame is that he is afraid to burn in hell. And that is why he believes what he does. FEAR
still no proof from the quietly reasonable atheist that there is no God... yet all of this effect surrounds us... causality? most if not all of science is based more on assumption than 'fact' what ever that is. someone on here mentioned how water is a solvent... another clip about hitchens i think, anyway, we know that water is a solvent, we even think we know 'how' it is a solvent, we don't know why. why will always elude science. purpose eludes the materialist.
Life has been created only once? It could be happening all the time on our Earth. We don't know that it has happened only once. I would suspect that it happens all the time but new life would not be much of a match for the life on our Earth today that has survived over billions of years.
Oh, dear. I do believe that there have been many solar systems formed. Perhaps billions in our own galaxy. We don't have faith that the Big Bang occurred even once( we don't know as its just a postulation) but, if it has happened then it must happen more than once. However, no one states that the Big Bang came from nothingness. We just don't know.
The crowd of young people and look on their faces makes me feel maybe they're wondering who is this guy bashing this Christian preacher like I never saw before....making a lot more sense too.
@FightingFitKravMaga Actually, I am NOT an atheist. Again, you're making assumptions....this time from ignorance. It is NOT reasonable to assume I'm atheist simply because YOU can't think of anything else to label me. You've made it most clear that you're woefully unfamiliar with the ideals and teachings of any ideology outside of your own. The argument from ignorance will fail every time.
However, my faith, or lack thereof, is not the topic of discussion and is a red herring.
@FightingFitKravMaga I DID say that. We do get our morals from one another since there IS NO OTHER SOURCE. Unless and until you can prove there's another source for morality, you've got no other argument for the source.
BTW, if *I* say "this is wrong", that IS merely stating it.
@FightingFitKravMaga If you can't see what is wrong with stoning homosexuals, owning slaves, murdering non-believers, et al, I wonder how you'd feel to be on the recieving end of such morality? Do you cut your sideburns, eat pork, work on the sabbath, wear poly-cotton blends or have you ever had sex with a woman outside of marriage? If so, YOU are now up for a good stoning according to the laws of the Bible.
@FightingFitKravMaga Actually, the fact that morality comes from living, breathing, PROVABLE sources makes it more real than the pronouncements of some invisible, unproven sky-daddy. Being answerable to one another is the ONLY thing that keeps us in check. If belief in a hell is what makes YOU behave, you're not moral and you lack integrity.
@FightingFitKravMaga BTW, I never claimed to be an atheist. I'm just not a Christian, Muslim or Jew. Do not presume to know things you do not. Also, do not assume to know ANYTHING beyond what I have stated. You cannot always make the inferences that you so blithely have made.
Don't make assumptions and inferences from things I have not stated. You're making non sequiter statements based on your bias against non-Christians.
@FightingFitKravMaga We decide what is morally right or wrong by how we ourselves would wish to be treated. Some morals are relative. Some are not. It is a grave and dangerous mistake to claim some absolute moral authority and attempt to live by this supposed authority when it is so demonstrably and patently NOT moral.
I do not "elevate" my opinion of right and wrong over others. I merely state that we as humans decide morality and we always have. We don't get our morals from a deity.
@FightingFitKravMaga Of course I am making moral statements. However, morality comes from humanity, not a deity. If I got my morals from the Bible, I'd be stoning homosexuals, owning slaves, murdering non-believers and committing all sorts of other immoral and illegal acts that your Bible not only endorses, but in many places makes law.
There is no lawgiver nor absolute moral law.
Oh, and I'm a woman, not a man. Most people understand that names ending in "ella" are feminine.
@FightingFitKravMaga Yes, it does apply with Christianity. In the US, stem cell research was once halted because of Christianity. Some Christians want evolution taken out of the curricula of their local schools. Christians also are at the forefront of the anti-choice movement. Christians actively rail and preach against same sex marriage and equal rights for homosexuals. In the past, it was Christians who argued against civil rights for minorities and equal rights for women.
The big bang is basically a scientific gloss for the creation myth, and we have no evidence in nature that big bangs happen, i.e., something appearing or being created from nothing. Not all scientists advocate big bang theory, proposing instead that the universe is infinite in space and time and proposing mechanisms for the development of our galaxy and others based on observable, measureable and recreatable phenomena. Read "The Big Bang Never Happened", by Eric J. Lerner.
@KeistasZmogelis don't be silly. there is a definition of nothing. It's in the dictionary. I don't have an opinion on what "nothing" is, there is either nothing or there is something. Perhaps you have an opinion on 2+2. Maybe in your opinion they equal 5. Doesn't mean you're right.
there is a measure of things that have only happened once that are not part of fairy tales. We can reproduce aspects of the big bang. No one has been able to reproduce or even give a reasonable explination of the resurection, other than god sacrificed himself to himself to that he can forgive his creations from sin he had created for the creations. Because that makes sense.
@callofduty497 You don't get to call the tone, big boy. I DID tell you you made a mistake, but I shouldn't have had to. If you'd only done it once, I could consider it an honest mistake. You did it three fucking times! Are you so het up to beat someone at Bible games that you're unable to read properly or control your vitriol?
Yeah, there IS a misunderstanding....ON YOUR PART. I understood what I was saying and who I was addressing. You should own that too instead of trying to mitigate.
@callofduty497 Why are you quote mining from another commenter and claiming they are mine? You're proving that your not only sloppy and disorganized, but ridiculous to boot. You've done it THREE FUCKING TIMES.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Dude, stick to MY comments with me. Once, I would consider a mistake. Twice, sloppiness. Three times, you're doing it on purpose.
I see your poorly evolved brain has allowed your emotions to override your intellect, YET AGAIN.
@callofduty497 "Immaculate conception, rising from the dead, this is all part of the nonsense myth called Christianity."
Again, I didn't say that. Apparently, you need a break from YouTube. Also, and I do believe I told you this yesterday, I AM A MISS, NOT A SIR.
I don't care if YOU are persuaded or not. I am not doing this for your benefit. Your self-centered, self-serving view of the universe notwithstanding, I am engaged in this exchange to enlighen other and assist in their recovery.
@callofduty497 You: "...let's just go our separate ways convinced of what we each think is real and leave it at that."
Me: "OK"
That wasn't an exchange you and I had. I don't give up that easily. You're confusing me with another commenter.
I am Ciaochowbella and I am a woman.
I don't know who else has your head in a tizzy, but I'd really appreciate it if you'd keep me separate from other commenters and stick to MY points with me. Is that too much to ask?
@pureperil Yes, it has been a long time and it would be lovely if we could all move on with our lives.
However, the religious won't allow that. They consider their faith to be a reason to commit atrocities, hinder medical advancements, control education, make law, control and subjugate women and penalize homosexuals. The non-religious, secular and atheist would LOVE to move on but the religious keep holding us back and if we allowed it, they'd go back to burning people at the stake.
@ciaochowbella I wrote my last sentence poorly. I meant to say "your life", in reference to Dr. Tourik*. Some people get it, most don't. Just take comfort knowing you live in a world beyond their world.
Wow, i'm feeling such conflicting emotions. Hitchen's is so good that I'm actually starting to feel sorry for Turok. (Or maybe the only explanation is divine intervention. Yep, that must be it!)
@callofduty497 If we are designed, we are MOST poorly designed. If human bodies were automobiles, we'd be recalled. We have vestigal organs that serve only to kill us, we breathe and eat through the same hole, we have pleasure-producing/reproductive organs entangled with excretory organs, we have wisdom teeth, ear bones, tailbones, and are susceptible to minor variations in temp and climate.
If this is your idea of a good design, you don't understand design AT ALL.
If you feel there are CONTEMPORARY, extra-Biblical accounts of the life of Jesus, provide them. (BTW, "contemporary" means alive at the purported time of Christ.)
You, dear boy, have only done research in Sunday School. I recognize the propaganda from when I was so enthralled and brainwashed.
@callofduty497 I call it a nebulous entity because even you Christians can't seem to agree on what your god consists of. Some think it is a non-physical being while others think he's a bearded white man living on a cloud. As Christopher Hitchens has said, "Religion was the first and the worst attempt by mankind to understand our existence." God and Jesus are mythical beings. Immaculate conception, rising from the dead, this is all part of the nonsense myth called Christianity. Adios amigo!
@callofduty497 Okay, that's what you think. And in what way does this prove that your personal friend caused it all to occur? I think we are going in circles here and the one thing that has become abundantly clear is that this discussion is leading nowhere. I am never going to convince you that your personal friend in the sky is make believe and you are never going to convince me that he's real. So let's just go our separate ways convinced of what we each think is real and leave it at that.
@callofduty497 Once again you are offering nothing but mere speculation based upon your 'belief' that a deity exists. Belief, I will remind you, is what you need in the absence of any actual EVIDENCE. You BELIEVE you have a personal god. You BELIEVE the Big Bang didn't happen. You postulate that it would be impossible for "matter to emerge from nothingness" but offer as an alternative only the proposition that some immaterial being created it all out of nothingness. Back to square one.
The laws of physics that we now know didn't apply at the beginning of the big bang. Even the most basic things like electrons and atoms (which govern the nature of modern physics) didn't form until thousands of years after.
@callofduty497 1)Accusing me of "faulty reasoning" was not a "statement of fact, whether or not it is true." It was simply your opinion. And in my opinion, your opinion was wrong.
2) My "sudden and unprovoked rant" was actually provoked by your assertion that non-believers are de facto 'imbeciles.' I replied that if left to the uninquisitive mindset of Christians we'd all still believe that the world was flat.
3) As I mentioned, we don't know each other, so don't take it personally.
@callofduty497 As God is a somewhat nebulous entity, how do you know what form He is in? I'll bet many Christians perceive God as a physical entity. If God is physical, then we are not talking of Creation so much as Transformation of one physicality to another. If God is (as you say) an "immaterial being" then aren't you simply assigning the name "God" to the natural processes that formed the universe. Isn't God then also known by another name----the Big Bang?
@callofduty497 True that no sensible person thinks the world will end. I should mention that most of my close friends and relatives are Christians of one sort or another---Catholics, Lutherans, et al---and none of them take those End Times predictions seriously either. In fact, the two young children of friends of mine yesterday made a joke of shaking my hand and saying, "Well, it's been nice knowing you." We then went out to lunch at an Applebee's and were pleased to see it was still there.
Oh, by the way, for those of you who may be unaware of it, today is supposed to mark the end of the world. That's right, it's the End Times, folks, and it's like deja vu all over again. Thus far it's been 2000 years of Biblical prophecy and "any day now." So I'm gonna go out on a limb for my fellow travelers on Planet Earth and make the startling prediction that THE WORLD WILL NOT END TODAY. That's right. Call me crazy if you want but I think we'll all still be here tomorrow. Good-night.
Here is a simple syllogism aimed at the Faithful: You claim there was a Creator and that this Creator made all else from Nothing. You also believe God is a separate entity from everything else. Therefore He existed alone in the universe and then created all else. But if Creation must come from Nothing, this means that Nothing had to exist prior to Creation. If God is Something, then He existed prior to Creation. But Creation only comes out of Nothing, so God could not have existed.
@callofduty497 I won't even bother answering this one, as ciaochowbella has already done a nice job of that for me. Thank you, "ciao," whoever you are. And, yes, even if there was evidence of a factual historical Jesus, claiming that this proves he was the "son of God" would be an enormous leap into an irrational assumption.
@callofduty497 Dear, sir, as we have no knowledge of one another personally this entire discussion is restricted to the ideas presented. Therefore, when you describe one's thoughts as "imbecility" or "virulent drivel" or assert that they exhibit "faulty reasoning" it is indistinguishable from a personal critique. And when you make such assertions with no sound reasoning of your own to refute what they've said, you might well expect a negative response, which is what you received. Surprised?
@callofduty497 Even if we had NO fossils, evolution is proven by DNA. However, there are LOTS of transitional forms to be seen.
There are ABSOLUTELY no extra-Biblical, contemporary accounts of the existence of Jesus. NONE.
The archeological "evidence" for the OT does not exist. Ron Wyatt has been shown to be an outright fraud and the best archaeologists of Israel have finally admitted that there is no evidence to back the Bible tales.
Even if all this were true, it wouldn't prove god.
I'm not going to go under the pretense of saying that I know everything nor will I put my faith in a book that I can not prove the events of. But I look at things and ask myself "this all happened by chance?" But even then I would be making assumptions about time, space, and continuity.
@callofduty497 You offer an assertion [God is eternal] based upon an assumption [that God exists] and accuse me of faulty reasoning? So here is my "limited" rational response: If you are going to claim the existence of a Creator as an explanation for the existence of everything else, then the burden is on you to show evidence of that Creator's existence. You cannot do that. So your argument is based upon supposition, assumption and empty assertions, nothing more. It explains nothing.
Here's a question for Christians: Do you believe God "has a plan"? And do you believe He is infallible?Okay, I'm guessing you agreed. Next question: Do you pray? Yes? Okay then, why? Most prayers are requests for special favors of some sort. But aren't you asking God to change his plan? If he's already got a plan and he's all-knowing and infallible, why ask him to change or correct the plan? Do you think he knew you would pray then? Okay, so he already factored that into his plan, so why pray?
@JackKangaroo1 And just to clarify my last point here, if your God is all-knowing and has a plan then it stands to reason that he must have already factored into that plan whether or not you were going to pray to him to ask a favor, in which case if you don't pray that's already part of his plan and if you do pray, that was too; so no matter whether you pray or not it's already factored into the equation, so why bother praying?
@callofduty497 Hey, you're the one who used the word "imbecility" to define the thoughts of non-believers. Christians demand an explanation for the origin of the universe. You then postulate that a mysterious deity of no known origin created it, and now insist that it needs no origin. In other words, you've explained nothing. You are not reasoning at all. It's just wishful thinking. I'm sure you were upset when you were told there was no Santa Claus. Time to accept there's no God either.
As I have now made quite a few posts on the subject of religion I'd like to make it clear that I am not hostile towards believers, only toward their beliefs. I understand that there are many good people out there who believe Christianity because they were never given a choice not to. They were fed Christian propaganda since before they could walk or reason and the beliefs were accepted on a deep emotional level. In short, they've been brainwashed. I never suffered such brainwashing as a child.
@callofduty497 You are indulging in a classic logical fallacy known as petitio principii, wherein the thing you are trying to prove [God exists] is assumed in your premise. I see that flawed argument all the time from the religious. The only imbecility you have just demonstrated is your own. If we left things up to people like you we'd still believe that the world was flat. [By the way, it isn't.....just in case you didn't know.] Have a nice day communicating with your imaginary friend.
The biggest lie the Christian told was when he said that religion looks for truth. In NO WAY does religion have any interest in anything other than it's established dogma!
why is there no mention of DNA or bacteria or dinosaurs etc... in the bible or any other holy book?
Also, just because we don't know where something came from or how it' was formed, It doesn't mean their's a God. when I say God I mean a being that looks like us, i.e. we are made in his image and is a loving God, even though there are so many bad things going on in the world.
P.S. what does a tree of morality, flood, virgin birth and a resurrection have to do with the creator of the Universe?
I can't believe people still believe in the teachings of the bible. And of an all-powerful god that created everything. It just boggles my mind to think people are so stupid and easily led into believing anything.
@Michael55443 I look at it this way, if they'd had a chance to decide if they believed into that nonsense, not one in a hundred would. But when are people indoctrinated with religion? When they are toddlers, right? Long before they have developed any ability for critical analysis of what they're being told they are brain-washed by their parents into believing the Bible. So it becomes accepted at a deep emotional level that defies reason and logic later on in life. Me, I had atheist parents.
@JackKangaroo1 I agree. When you are forced to believe something, you tend to do just that. Especially if the alternative is to "burn in hell" for all eternity. My parents never forced religion or god on any of us, although they both believed in a god. I prefer to use my own mind when it comes to just about everything. I am not a follower, never will be. I've yet to hear one compelling argument from the religious right that gives even the slightest glint of proof about where we came from!!
Dont worry guys. I just killed a mosquito the other day ( yes my spelling sucks ) and all of our sins for the next 4.5 million billion years will be washed away.
Now can someone please tell me if I am going to the Christian hell or Muslim hell when i die? Both concepts are borrowed for the Zoroaster point of view.
In this life i will be making love to beautiful women and make millions of bucks once I stop drinking.
@kansaimagic I didn't know Zoro had a point of view on this subject. Oh well, live and learn. As for drinking and hitting the gym, doesn't work. I went drinking three weeks in a row and ran my car into the north wall of the neighborhood gym. Didn't do a damn bit of good. Burp!
So... how would this christian distinguish a capital G God from a being who has the power to resurrect itself, but no other powers? After all, if you're going to belief in beings with powers, then you might as well posit one with only a resurrection ability.
After all, if it rises from the dead, it's apperently god. That's what I heard the christian bleat.
Me, I think if it rose from the dead it's probably a magicians trick. But I'm not religious.
The idea of irreducible complexity is flawed, but to answer the question directly, DNA is more energetically favorable than RNA in certain chemical environments . RNA organisms could not produce adenotriphosphate as efficiently as organisms that had a mutation that had unoxidized ribo-nucleic acid
@tigerz2350 They don't really want an answer. Those 'questions' are merely obstacles put forward to shield their faith. e.g. (RP = Religious Person, A=Answer/Atheist)
RP- So if Darwin was right..how come no missing link fossils have been found?
A-Seeing as all species are in a constant state of flux, the term 'missing link' is a redundant one.Besides,there are countless fossils which show transitory aspects of anatomy..reptilian jaw forming inner ear of mammals.
@tigerz2350 ....and move onto the next question. Even when you say that, the most convincing evidence for evolution is molecular genetics...and that it shows how species fall elegantly on that family tree. They ignore and move on.
They might as well stick their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la, I'm not listening!"..at least that would be more honest.
Yes, Christians claim the universe is so complex it must have been created by a God, infinitely more complex, and yet that complex being would be so complex it itself would require an infinitely more complex creator, and so on.
As HJ Muller showed IC isn't proof of anything, as it's a feature of evolution.
"Genetic Variability, Twin Hybrids and Constant Hybrids, in a Case of Balanced Lethal Factors", by Hermann J Muller, in Genetics, Vol 3, No 5, Sept 1918,
The greatest thing that could have happened during this was the guy asking questions just said "Here is a question from ICP. 'Fuckin' magnet's, how do they work?'"
look at Turek's body language, he is holding the chair his feet are wide apart: he is completely uncomfortable with being next to someone who is outsmarting him in every sort of way.. He must feel like that all the time I guess
The big bang only happened once? What?! Nobody said that it only happened once, in fact many scientists think that the universe expands and collapses over and over again in an endless cycle, that matter is eternal, changes form, and is compressed and expanded... this whole big bang happening once is a strawman and shows a general lack of scientific understanding on the religious guy's part, which shouldn't be surprising I know...
@lanegwyn Mmm... as Hitchens said at the end.... a singularity and a miracle is blatantly different. Turek tried to use a swticheroo in those two words to make a point... and Hitchens caught it... actually... I think most people will catch it... its pretty retarded what he said about Hume...
@UnizzyMD Turek brought up Humes' argument against the supposed miracles, stating they were less likely to have actually happened because they only occurred once. He went on to apply this logic to other things he assumed occurred only once (even though there's no evidence of this) and made the claim that if he applied this logic other scientifically backed things, Humes would not have believed them. I don't see where the switcheroo was. (char limit)
@SnowboardAssassin "Frankly, if I were Hitchens, I would have addressed the absurd claim that these things did indeed occur only once."
Then you'd be missing the point. The examples Turek gave were just that, and the specifics of them are irrelevant to his argument. His point was that the occurrence of a singularity is the same as the occurrence of a miracle, and Hitchens called him on it.
This guy's a religious turd. Case closed. Any religious person that says "I'm trying to use evidence" is pulling this out of their butts. How can our species continue to advance when such childish notions are so pervasive and persuasive?
@echalko If you listen to The Four Horsemen video w/ Dennet, Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens toward the end of the program Hitchens makes that very point. In that program, he was very dubious about our chances to advance. He strongly suggests that the effects of religious fanaticism will probably be the end of our species...
@GregoryPecary And unfortunately he's probably right. We give ourselves so much credit but we can't see how underdeveloped we really are. The end of the world will not be from a deity returning to our insignificant sphere of rock, but from one of us pressing a button. Darn you Hitchens, why must you be so direct and probably correct!
If God was real and prayer really worked then what the fuck are we doing taking medicine? How can you be a theist and really be so ignorant to this. Medicine fixes people, not fucking prayer. But somehow theists ignorantly defend prayer when someone is healed from medicine and in fact suggest it was God work. So delusional.
theciskokidd 2 weeks ago
You have been:
HITCHSLAPPED !!!
djbanizza 2 weeks ago
Turek seems edgy. I guess that's what happens after you've been Hitchslapped for an hour straight.
ClumsyRoot 2 months ago 15
Well without evidence that there was a "before" the big bang, and the FURTHER evidence that there was "nothing" there, then his misrepresentation of the beginning of the Universe is completely stupid and faith based, and not anything that science truly says.
Enginmaster 2 months ago
What is more likely, that the laws of nature have been suspended in your favor and in a way you approve of, or that you've made a mistake - and not witnessed a Miracle?
AndoDouglas 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Melvin6566842
This is comedy gold.
The1truesushiboy 2 months ago
Turek is nothing more than a weak minded Christian who finds it necessary to speak loudly to try make his point. How annoying...
Hornadayfan 3 months ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
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lightandbeautiful 3 months ago
Turek: "The universe exploded into being out of nothing" - he conveniently forgets that for billions of years (not days) afterwards it went through a series of changes that first allowed atoms to form, then gravity collapse clouds of gas atoms into first stars, then fuse those atoms into heavier elements, explode etc. until finally almost ten billion years after its birth our solar system begins to form, & it takes billions more for first basic life to show up<-contrary to his religion's story!
student123456 4 months ago 6
I wonder exactly how drunk The Hitch was during this debate. Either he's a super genius or alcohol fuels his powers. He is AMAZING though, and were I to ever find myself on the opposite side from him in a debate, I'd rethink my position post haste.
PaladinHero 4 months ago 3
Turek exists, therefore miracles don't exist.
GL12878 4 months ago 3
@GL12878 hahaha
Azuresong 4 months ago
He's a weasle, that christian, he just hates when his religious views are hammered. Then when he nit-picks Hitchens argument with foolish "logic" he just but-fucks himself.
Dgoosh1000 4 months ago
3:19 Turek embarrasing himself with logic that escentially took from his arse... "so, if the universe came from nothing then miracles are possible" huh ? wtf man !!
elvigia666 5 months ago
Dawkins hears "chance" and "evolution" and he would eplxode, a shame that Hitchens is not as literate in evolution. But Hitchens is great, Ilove him.
AxeHomeless 5 months ago
Turek will never get it.
TheAlvinealy 5 months ago
@TheAlvinealy Agreed.
writersblock26 4 months ago
Rose from the dead = God
No
Rose from the dead can = Zombie!
Waltham1892 5 months ago
WOOOOW ok dis HITCHENS character is jus sooo pretentious and condescendin .. wut he needs 2 do is take a sciences class and stop relyin so much on rhetoric an analogies .. im sick of dis new ATHEIST moovement dat is militaristic in nature and incompatible wit a democratic societies .. they keep tryna push they agenda on us harmless religious folk and we jus wana believe in sumthin .. so back da fuk up and mind ya businesses
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971 are you serious?? lol
thereasonabletroll68 5 months ago
@thereasonabletroll68 you dont think his whole attitude during dis video is condescending? it honestly seems like da guy aint have a ounce of respect 4 his opponent or his beliefs .. dats where i draw da line kiddo .. he jus beein rude and its uncalled 4.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971 religious people are the ones pushing their beliefs on everyone else. and if you watch the whole debate, and YOU had to talk to turek the whole time i bet you'd be damn tired of his rediculous arguments
thereasonabletroll68 5 months ago
@thereasonabletroll68 his arguments are reasonable an delivered wit a sense of respeck .. if dats wut u consider 2 be "rediculous" then we jus gona have 2 disagree. howeva if u were 2 be in tureks shoes an u had 2 listen 2 dat condescending douche 4 a whole debate babbling in rhetorics and allegory all in a monotone voice .. i think U would be damn tired of da way dat atheism beein represented by dis man hitchens.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971 did you see the part where turek started speaking real fast and ended with "thats the argument and i dont have more time to go into detail." well he uses that "excuse" multiple times throughout the debate anytime he is asked a question that undermines his religious beliefs and that actually deserve to be answered. oh and he had plenty of time.. its over a 2 hour debate
thereasonabletroll68 5 months ago
@thereasonabletroll68 dats prolly cuz he aint wana go off on a tangent bout stuff dat he knows mr. hitchens already knows. ya see mayne dis debates is timed an they have a moderator 2 let dem know wen they rambling on 4 too long .. turek complies 2 those rules but hitchens keep speakin out of turn and beein rude and condescending .. u jus aint cant see it dat way cuz u agree wit wut hes sayin .. im sayin his delivery is all wrong and it aint da way 2 present a arguments in dis kinda forums.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971 its also bad to debate by making claims and not supporting them with evidence.
also. whats with all the "dats" and "cuz"s. are you from compton or some shit?
thereasonabletroll68 5 months ago
@thereasonabletroll68 heh. im sorry mayne i didnt know dat dis wuz a regionally exclusive dialect ... wut a mistakes i have made .. i should move 2 compton or "some shit"
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971 havent you heard??? ebonics isnt a language no more nigga
thereasonabletroll68 5 months ago
@thereasonabletroll68 ... dat comment is da typical atheist condescending attitudes.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971
The religious of the world war against one another in the names of their imaginary friends, strap bombs to children because a book told them too, and scare those kept ignorant with stories of fire and torture at the hands of a loving God.
I will take atheistic condescension any day of the fucking week...
Thank You
Waltham1892 5 months ago
@Waltham1892 heh. i could be hyperbolic jus like u and say sumthin bout state imposed atheism regimes (like stalins) are some of da most oppressives in history but i wont cuz i know dat aint represent most atheists' . and strappin bombs 2 children because a book told dem 2 certainly aint represent most believers .. in fact .. im pretty sure dat any1 whom is strappin bombs 2 children is doin it as more of a political attacks rather than a spiritual commandment.
thank u
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
If you are not going to be an original thinker, please don't speak.
Stalin was an Atheist, yes, but Hitler was Catholic, so was Musollini.
Add to that the hundreds of years of war between Catholic and Protestant, Catholic and Muslin, Muslim and Jew, and Jew and Pagan, and you have more dead than Stalin ever dreamed of.
Lets add to the butcher's bill all the cultures and people's destroyed by the missionaries in Africa and South America.
Anything in the name of God, I guess.
Waltham1892 5 months ago
@Waltham1892 heh. i guess u didnt undastand my point cuz u jus continued beein hyperbolic .. maybe u missed da part where i said "i could say sumthing bout .... but i wont cuz i know dat aint represent most atheists" .. so lemme try again since u aint undastand... i wuz sayin dat both sides have their share of crazy, sure 1 has more than da other but dats cuz more ppl have been religious than atheists. wut ya gota remember is dat ya cant marginalize a group cuz of da crazies cuz we all got em.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971
But what do you do when membership in a group requires "crazy"?
If I told you my imaginary friend wants me to murder you because you are wearing cloth of two threads, or because your field has two crops in it, or you are working on a day he doesn't want you to work, you'd call me crazy. Unless, of course, my friend was God. In which case I'm just religious.
Crazy is religion's stock and trade.
Waltham1892 5 months ago
@Waltham1892 beein a theist aint mean u are required 2 be crazy .. u aint have 2 adhere 2 da doctrine 2 be a believer.. da only thing it requires is dat u believe in God .. and ya aint have 2 be crazy 2 accept dat proposition cuz ya cant say 4 certain whether its true or not. dats why its a belief and not a fact.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971
So, the best argument you can come up with is that I should worship an invisible being because I can't prove he isn't there.
Invisible pink unicorns anyone?
Not only do I have to worship this invisible being, who no one can prove is there, but I have to follow all his rules, hate who he wants me to hate, and kill who he wants me to kill.
By the way, you are an adult. Can you write like an adult?
Waltham1892 5 months ago
@Waltham1892 heh. wut? i didnt say nothing bout worshipping ... alls i said wuz in order 2 be a theist ya jus have 2 believe in God ... i dont get down on my knees or worship "invisible being" .. i jus believe dat theres a God .. i dont think it gave me any rules.. i aint think dat it wants me 2 hate or kill anyone... i jus believe its there.. so lemme ask u wut is wit dis invisible pink unicorns thing?? sounds like a silly strawman argument 2 me.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971
I can't continue this conversation because I can't read what you are writing.
If you want to continue this conversation in English, I would be glad to.
Waltham1892 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971
>"beein a theist aint mean u are required 2 be crazy ..da only thing it requires is dat u believe in God"
Believing in an invisible sky fairy who created himself and tortures people forever for eating meat on a friday....IS CRAZY.
P.S.: Ali G called, he says he wants his schtick back.
LordCustos3 5 months ago
@LordCustos3 heh. belief in God aint require u 2 believe in a set of rules dat are set up by organized religions ... like i have already said i am an deist and since there aint no doctrine 4 an deist ur lil comment bout beein tortured 4 eating a meats aint apply here. damn yall need 2 stop wit da strawman arguments an stop putting words in my mouth.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971
>"belief in God aint require u 2 believe in a set of rules dat are set up by organized religions."
Are you even reading anything that is posted to you?
I'm not talking about dogma or orthodoxy. I'm talking about the key belief that defines one as a theist.
>"stop wit da strawman arguments an stop putting words in my mouth."
Do. You. Believe. In. an. Invisible. Personal. God?
If so, then it isn't a strawman.
LordCustos3 5 months ago
@LordCustos3 "Do. You. Believe. In. an. Invisible. Personal. God?" ... ive said already dat ima deist... "Are you even reading anything that is posted to you?" ... do u not know wut a deist is?? if so then why are ya aksin if i believe in a "personal" God?? no i aint believe in a "personal" God .. so by ur own admission u are usin a strawman arguments.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971 nope dat shit is de truuf.
thereasonabletroll68 5 months ago
@thereasonabletroll68 look mayne u jus tryna do a strawman argument on me .. my typing aint da issue dat is beein discussed in dis video so stop tryna changin da topics.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971 dats tru. so you saying dat da religions are all great yadda yadda yadda and that athiests are the problem?
thereasonabletroll68 5 months ago
@thereasonabletroll68 nah i got problems wit all da religions .. im actually an deist .. i jus believe there is a God but i aint sayin dat athiests or any1 is da problems .. alls i wuz sayin is dat alotta atheists have da tendency 2 be condescending in their convorsations wit believers and it can be counter-productives 2 da goals of discussions.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
@teenw0lf1971 yeah hitchens does seem like that enough. i bet he wouldnt be if he ever had a descussion with someone who is intelligent. but he said it himself, he likes to be a asshole.
ever watch any sam harris?
thereasonabletroll68 5 months ago
@thereasonabletroll68 yea i like dat mans cuz he seems 2 have a casual yet serious approach 2 these debates .. now theres a attitude i can respect. if i were professional debater or author dats wut i woud do.
teenw0lf1971 5 months ago
...this christian guy is dumb as fuck
braydenbeautiful 6 months ago
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Turek is behaving like a ignorant child who doesn't want to take a bath. And Hitchens is the calm wiser parent.
SwordPlay2 6 months ago
Ok fine Mr Turek, the Big Bang is a "miracle."
Now how the heck does that tie Christianity to the Big Bang or the supernatural.
nosajj12345 6 months ago
@nosajj12345 exactly. from deist, ie we dont know maybe a god thingy? to it must a god who loves me, sent his son to earth by impregnating a Palestinian from space and hates science and gays
cpt2115 5 months ago
It is just amazing to me. Here you have Turek who seams to be a competant capible man, that clearly is struggling to make sence of it all. The shame is that he is afraid to burn in hell. And that is why he believes what he does. FEAR
damaniseman 6 months ago
still no proof from the quietly reasonable atheist that there is no God... yet all of this effect surrounds us... causality? most if not all of science is based more on assumption than 'fact' what ever that is. someone on here mentioned how water is a solvent... another clip about hitchens i think, anyway, we know that water is a solvent, we even think we know 'how' it is a solvent, we don't know why. why will always elude science. purpose eludes the materialist.
cwross1976 6 months ago
@cwross1976 I say that unicorns exist, who has to give the proves that its true, you or me?
cichriz 6 months ago
Turek is an idiot.
TheRealSmacker 6 months ago
this asshole is so fucking loud... the creationist is a loud asshole and the atheist is a calm and reasonable debater. such is life...
ToAcUt 6 months ago 24
@ToAcUt
What he lacks in intelligence or cogent arguments he makes up for in VOLUME.
ClumsyRoot 2 months ago
@ClumsyRoot Sorry, but the human body is incapable of producing such a loud sound to make up for his stupidity.
TheWhiteShadow42 3 weeks ago
Life has been created only once? It could be happening all the time on our Earth. We don't know that it has happened only once. I would suspect that it happens all the time but new life would not be much of a match for the life on our Earth today that has survived over billions of years.
ButterflyStorms 6 months ago
Oh, dear. I do believe that there have been many solar systems formed. Perhaps billions in our own galaxy. We don't have faith that the Big Bang occurred even once( we don't know as its just a postulation) but, if it has happened then it must happen more than once. However, no one states that the Big Bang came from nothingness. We just don't know.
ButterflyStorms 6 months ago
The crowd of young people and look on their faces makes me feel maybe they're wondering who is this guy bashing this Christian preacher like I never saw before....making a lot more sense too.
spareaxe 7 months ago
The great Christopher Hitchens. I love Christopher Hitchens.
TheMagmagoblin 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga Actually, I am NOT an atheist. Again, you're making assumptions....this time from ignorance. It is NOT reasonable to assume I'm atheist simply because YOU can't think of anything else to label me. You've made it most clear that you're woefully unfamiliar with the ideals and teachings of any ideology outside of your own. The argument from ignorance will fail every time.
However, my faith, or lack thereof, is not the topic of discussion and is a red herring.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga I DID say that. We do get our morals from one another since there IS NO OTHER SOURCE. Unless and until you can prove there's another source for morality, you've got no other argument for the source.
BTW, if *I* say "this is wrong", that IS merely stating it.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga I never said that if something is is disadvantageous it's morally wrong.
You sure do like to make wild, baseless assumptions.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga If you can't see what is wrong with stoning homosexuals, owning slaves, murdering non-believers, et al, I wonder how you'd feel to be on the recieving end of such morality? Do you cut your sideburns, eat pork, work on the sabbath, wear poly-cotton blends or have you ever had sex with a woman outside of marriage? If so, YOU are now up for a good stoning according to the laws of the Bible.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga Actually, the fact that morality comes from living, breathing, PROVABLE sources makes it more real than the pronouncements of some invisible, unproven sky-daddy. Being answerable to one another is the ONLY thing that keeps us in check. If belief in a hell is what makes YOU behave, you're not moral and you lack integrity.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
poor Turek. He gets slayed. It makes me slightly uncomfortable to see someone so completely defeated.
ggliddy 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga BTW, I never claimed to be an atheist. I'm just not a Christian, Muslim or Jew. Do not presume to know things you do not. Also, do not assume to know ANYTHING beyond what I have stated. You cannot always make the inferences that you so blithely have made.
Don't make assumptions and inferences from things I have not stated. You're making non sequiter statements based on your bias against non-Christians.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga We decide what is morally right or wrong by how we ourselves would wish to be treated. Some morals are relative. Some are not. It is a grave and dangerous mistake to claim some absolute moral authority and attempt to live by this supposed authority when it is so demonstrably and patently NOT moral.
I do not "elevate" my opinion of right and wrong over others. I merely state that we as humans decide morality and we always have. We don't get our morals from a deity.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga Of course I am making moral statements. However, morality comes from humanity, not a deity. If I got my morals from the Bible, I'd be stoning homosexuals, owning slaves, murdering non-believers and committing all sorts of other immoral and illegal acts that your Bible not only endorses, but in many places makes law.
There is no lawgiver nor absolute moral law.
Oh, and I'm a woman, not a man. Most people understand that names ending in "ella" are feminine.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
@FightingFitKravMaga Yes, it does apply with Christianity. In the US, stem cell research was once halted because of Christianity. Some Christians want evolution taken out of the curricula of their local schools. Christians also are at the forefront of the anti-choice movement. Christians actively rail and preach against same sex marriage and equal rights for homosexuals. In the past, it was Christians who argued against civil rights for minorities and equal rights for women.
ciaochowbella 7 months ago
The big bang is basically a scientific gloss for the creation myth, and we have no evidence in nature that big bangs happen, i.e., something appearing or being created from nothing. Not all scientists advocate big bang theory, proposing instead that the universe is infinite in space and time and proposing mechanisms for the development of our galaxy and others based on observable, measureable and recreatable phenomena. Read "The Big Bang Never Happened", by Eric J. Lerner.
SacredandBound 7 months ago
@SacredandBound "being created from nothing"
Define "Nothing".
KeistasZmogelis 7 months ago
@KeistasZmogelis try the dictionary.
SacredandBound 6 months ago
@SacredandBound No. I want to know your opinion, how you understand it, not what the dictionary says.
KeistasZmogelis 6 months ago
@KeistasZmogelis don't be silly. there is a definition of nothing. It's in the dictionary. I don't have an opinion on what "nothing" is, there is either nothing or there is something. Perhaps you have an opinion on 2+2. Maybe in your opinion they equal 5. Doesn't mean you're right.
SacredandBound 6 months ago
@SacredandBound "either nothing or there is something"
"Nothing" is impossible. There's always something.
KeistasZmogelis 6 months ago
there is a measure of things that have only happened once that are not part of fairy tales. We can reproduce aspects of the big bang. No one has been able to reproduce or even give a reasonable explination of the resurection, other than god sacrificed himself to himself to that he can forgive his creations from sin he had created for the creations. Because that makes sense.
gortews 7 months ago
Turek is like a grown kid
fucking painful to watch
o.O
TAz69x 7 months ago
The 'T' in Turek is for TWAT
dirtydonki 7 months ago
@callofduty497
Cunt
Alwayshatehippies79 7 months ago
Turek is very intelligent, and completely brainwashed.
mikefromwa 8 months ago 3
holy shit zombies invaded isreal 6:00
DBZass 8 months ago 3
@callofduty497 You don't get to call the tone, big boy. I DID tell you you made a mistake, but I shouldn't have had to. If you'd only done it once, I could consider it an honest mistake. You did it three fucking times! Are you so het up to beat someone at Bible games that you're unable to read properly or control your vitriol?
Yeah, there IS a misunderstanding....ON YOUR PART. I understood what I was saying and who I was addressing. You should own that too instead of trying to mitigate.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
@callofduty497 Why are you quote mining from another commenter and claiming they are mine? You're proving that your not only sloppy and disorganized, but ridiculous to boot. You've done it THREE FUCKING TIMES.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Dude, stick to MY comments with me. Once, I would consider a mistake. Twice, sloppiness. Three times, you're doing it on purpose.
I see your poorly evolved brain has allowed your emotions to override your intellect, YET AGAIN.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
@callofduty497 "Immaculate conception, rising from the dead, this is all part of the nonsense myth called Christianity."
Again, I didn't say that. Apparently, you need a break from YouTube. Also, and I do believe I told you this yesterday, I AM A MISS, NOT A SIR.
I don't care if YOU are persuaded or not. I am not doing this for your benefit. Your self-centered, self-serving view of the universe notwithstanding, I am engaged in this exchange to enlighen other and assist in their recovery.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
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@callofduty497 You: "...let's just go our separate ways convinced of what we each think is real and leave it at that."
Me: "OK"
That wasn't an exchange you and I had. I don't give up that easily. You're confusing me with another commenter.
I am Ciaochowbella and I am a woman.
I don't know who else has your head in a tizzy, but I'd really appreciate it if you'd keep me separate from other commenters and stick to MY points with me. Is that too much to ask?
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
Its over. Its been over for a very long time. Move on with your lives.
pureperil 8 months ago
@pureperil Yes, it has been a long time and it would be lovely if we could all move on with our lives.
However, the religious won't allow that. They consider their faith to be a reason to commit atrocities, hinder medical advancements, control education, make law, control and subjugate women and penalize homosexuals. The non-religious, secular and atheist would LOVE to move on but the religious keep holding us back and if we allowed it, they'd go back to burning people at the stake.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago 25
@ciaochowbella I wrote my last sentence poorly. I meant to say "your life", in reference to Dr. Tourik*. Some people get it, most don't. Just take comfort knowing you live in a world beyond their world.
pureperil 8 months ago
Wow, i'm feeling such conflicting emotions. Hitchen's is so good that I'm actually starting to feel sorry for Turok. (Or maybe the only explanation is divine intervention. Yep, that must be it!)
artspooner 8 months ago
@callofduty497 Wikipedia, Tacitus and Josephus are not CONTEMPORARIES of your supposed savior.
And, besides ol' T & J, who are these "many Roman historians" that mention your mad rabbi?
Dumplin, seriously, you have GOT to get your facts from some other source than church.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
@callofduty497 If we are designed, we are MOST poorly designed. If human bodies were automobiles, we'd be recalled. We have vestigal organs that serve only to kill us, we breathe and eat through the same hole, we have pleasure-producing/reproductive organs entangled with excretory organs, we have wisdom teeth, ear bones, tailbones, and are susceptible to minor variations in temp and climate.
If this is your idea of a good design, you don't understand design AT ALL.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
@callofduty497 Evolution IS proved.
And I'm a miss.
If you feel there are CONTEMPORARY, extra-Biblical accounts of the life of Jesus, provide them. (BTW, "contemporary" means alive at the purported time of Christ.)
You, dear boy, have only done research in Sunday School. I recognize the propaganda from when I was so enthralled and brainwashed.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
@callofduty497 So if we're designed, why all the "junk DNA" and vestigal organs? Why are we almost genetically identical to chimps?
Your lack of understanding of the scientific process is breathtaking. Seriously, you have NO idea what you're talking about AT ALL.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
@callofduty497 I call it a nebulous entity because even you Christians can't seem to agree on what your god consists of. Some think it is a non-physical being while others think he's a bearded white man living on a cloud. As Christopher Hitchens has said, "Religion was the first and the worst attempt by mankind to understand our existence." God and Jesus are mythical beings. Immaculate conception, rising from the dead, this is all part of the nonsense myth called Christianity. Adios amigo!
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@callofduty497 Okay, that's what you think. And in what way does this prove that your personal friend caused it all to occur? I think we are going in circles here and the one thing that has become abundantly clear is that this discussion is leading nowhere. I am never going to convince you that your personal friend in the sky is make believe and you are never going to convince me that he's real. So let's just go our separate ways convinced of what we each think is real and leave it at that.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@callofduty497 Once again you are offering nothing but mere speculation based upon your 'belief' that a deity exists. Belief, I will remind you, is what you need in the absence of any actual EVIDENCE. You BELIEVE you have a personal god. You BELIEVE the Big Bang didn't happen. You postulate that it would be impossible for "matter to emerge from nothingness" but offer as an alternative only the proposition that some immaterial being created it all out of nothingness. Back to square one.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@callofduty497
The laws of physics that we now know didn't apply at the beginning of the big bang. Even the most basic things like electrons and atoms (which govern the nature of modern physics) didn't form until thousands of years after.
1337Trollz 8 months ago
@callofduty497 1)Accusing me of "faulty reasoning" was not a "statement of fact, whether or not it is true." It was simply your opinion. And in my opinion, your opinion was wrong.
2) My "sudden and unprovoked rant" was actually provoked by your assertion that non-believers are de facto 'imbeciles.' I replied that if left to the uninquisitive mindset of Christians we'd all still believe that the world was flat.
3) As I mentioned, we don't know each other, so don't take it personally.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@callofduty497 As God is a somewhat nebulous entity, how do you know what form He is in? I'll bet many Christians perceive God as a physical entity. If God is physical, then we are not talking of Creation so much as Transformation of one physicality to another. If God is (as you say) an "immaterial being" then aren't you simply assigning the name "God" to the natural processes that formed the universe. Isn't God then also known by another name----the Big Bang?
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@callofduty497 True that no sensible person thinks the world will end. I should mention that most of my close friends and relatives are Christians of one sort or another---Catholics, Lutherans, et al---and none of them take those End Times predictions seriously either. In fact, the two young children of friends of mine yesterday made a joke of shaking my hand and saying, "Well, it's been nice knowing you." We then went out to lunch at an Applebee's and were pleased to see it was still there.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
Oh, by the way, for those of you who may be unaware of it, today is supposed to mark the end of the world. That's right, it's the End Times, folks, and it's like deja vu all over again. Thus far it's been 2000 years of Biblical prophecy and "any day now." So I'm gonna go out on a limb for my fellow travelers on Planet Earth and make the startling prediction that THE WORLD WILL NOT END TODAY. That's right. Call me crazy if you want but I think we'll all still be here tomorrow. Good-night.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
Here is a simple syllogism aimed at the Faithful: You claim there was a Creator and that this Creator made all else from Nothing. You also believe God is a separate entity from everything else. Therefore He existed alone in the universe and then created all else. But if Creation must come from Nothing, this means that Nothing had to exist prior to Creation. If God is Something, then He existed prior to Creation. But Creation only comes out of Nothing, so God could not have existed.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@callofduty497 I won't even bother answering this one, as ciaochowbella has already done a nice job of that for me. Thank you, "ciao," whoever you are. And, yes, even if there was evidence of a factual historical Jesus, claiming that this proves he was the "son of God" would be an enormous leap into an irrational assumption.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@callofduty497 Dear, sir, as we have no knowledge of one another personally this entire discussion is restricted to the ideas presented. Therefore, when you describe one's thoughts as "imbecility" or "virulent drivel" or assert that they exhibit "faulty reasoning" it is indistinguishable from a personal critique. And when you make such assertions with no sound reasoning of your own to refute what they've said, you might well expect a negative response, which is what you received. Surprised?
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
"There is so much evidence for God and the Bible's authenticity"
lmao.....the definition of delusion.
1EpicLulz 8 months ago
@callofduty497 Even if we had NO fossils, evolution is proven by DNA. However, there are LOTS of transitional forms to be seen.
There are ABSOLUTELY no extra-Biblical, contemporary accounts of the existence of Jesus. NONE.
The archeological "evidence" for the OT does not exist. Ron Wyatt has been shown to be an outright fraud and the best archaeologists of Israel have finally admitted that there is no evidence to back the Bible tales.
Even if all this were true, it wouldn't prove god.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago 2
Callofduty497 - maybe you should pick up a biology book or visit a museum. Just a thought before you spout nonsense.
Bhags7 8 months ago
A PhD and still Turek doesn't comprehend that no matter how loud he says something, the increased volume neither makes him right nor intelligent.
veganmochi 8 months ago
I'm not going to go under the pretense of saying that I know everything nor will I put my faith in a book that I can not prove the events of. But I look at things and ask myself "this all happened by chance?" But even then I would be making assumptions about time, space, and continuity.
dalhar20 8 months ago
@callofduty497 You offer an assertion [God is eternal] based upon an assumption [that God exists] and accuse me of faulty reasoning? So here is my "limited" rational response: If you are going to claim the existence of a Creator as an explanation for the existence of everything else, then the burden is on you to show evidence of that Creator's existence. You cannot do that. So your argument is based upon supposition, assumption and empty assertions, nothing more. It explains nothing.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
Here's a question for Christians: Do you believe God "has a plan"? And do you believe He is infallible?Okay, I'm guessing you agreed. Next question: Do you pray? Yes? Okay then, why? Most prayers are requests for special favors of some sort. But aren't you asking God to change his plan? If he's already got a plan and he's all-knowing and infallible, why ask him to change or correct the plan? Do you think he knew you would pray then? Okay, so he already factored that into his plan, so why pray?
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@JackKangaroo1 And just to clarify my last point here, if your God is all-knowing and has a plan then it stands to reason that he must have already factored into that plan whether or not you were going to pray to him to ask a favor, in which case if you don't pray that's already part of his plan and if you do pray, that was too; so no matter whether you pray or not it's already factored into the equation, so why bother praying?
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
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@JackKangaroo1 Another point about omniscience.....
If god is omniscient, then there can be no free will. If there is free will, then god cannot be omniscient.
ciaochowbella 8 months ago
@callofduty497 Hey, you're the one who used the word "imbecility" to define the thoughts of non-believers. Christians demand an explanation for the origin of the universe. You then postulate that a mysterious deity of no known origin created it, and now insist that it needs no origin. In other words, you've explained nothing. You are not reasoning at all. It's just wishful thinking. I'm sure you were upset when you were told there was no Santa Claus. Time to accept there's no God either.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
As I have now made quite a few posts on the subject of religion I'd like to make it clear that I am not hostile towards believers, only toward their beliefs. I understand that there are many good people out there who believe Christianity because they were never given a choice not to. They were fed Christian propaganda since before they could walk or reason and the beliefs were accepted on a deep emotional level. In short, they've been brainwashed. I never suffered such brainwashing as a child.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@callofduty497 You are indulging in a classic logical fallacy known as petitio principii, wherein the thing you are trying to prove [God exists] is assumed in your premise. I see that flawed argument all the time from the religious. The only imbecility you have just demonstrated is your own. If we left things up to people like you we'd still believe that the world was flat. [By the way, it isn't.....just in case you didn't know.] Have a nice day communicating with your imaginary friend.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
The biggest lie the Christian told was when he said that religion looks for truth. In NO WAY does religion have any interest in anything other than it's established dogma!
templarart 8 months ago
@templarart Amen to that, truer words were never spoken
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
why is there no mention of DNA or bacteria or dinosaurs etc... in the bible or any other holy book?
Also, just because we don't know where something came from or how it' was formed, It doesn't mean their's a God. when I say God I mean a being that looks like us, i.e. we are made in his image and is a loving God, even though there are so many bad things going on in the world.
P.S. what does a tree of morality, flood, virgin birth and a resurrection have to do with the creator of the Universe?
nazmibest 8 months ago
I can't believe people still believe in the teachings of the bible. And of an all-powerful god that created everything. It just boggles my mind to think people are so stupid and easily led into believing anything.
Michael55443 8 months ago
@Michael55443 I look at it this way, if they'd had a chance to decide if they believed into that nonsense, not one in a hundred would. But when are people indoctrinated with religion? When they are toddlers, right? Long before they have developed any ability for critical analysis of what they're being told they are brain-washed by their parents into believing the Bible. So it becomes accepted at a deep emotional level that defies reason and logic later on in life. Me, I had atheist parents.
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@JackKangaroo1 I agree. When you are forced to believe something, you tend to do just that. Especially if the alternative is to "burn in hell" for all eternity. My parents never forced religion or god on any of us, although they both believed in a god. I prefer to use my own mind when it comes to just about everything. I am not a follower, never will be. I've yet to hear one compelling argument from the religious right that gives even the slightest glint of proof about where we came from!!
Michael55443 8 months ago
The end of this video is so absolutely Epic. It makes every Michael Bay film look like Bambi. It makes the big bang look like a dud BlackCat.
CrapnellGates 8 months ago
Dont worry guys. I just killed a mosquito the other day ( yes my spelling sucks ) and all of our sins for the next 4.5 million billion years will be washed away.
Now can someone please tell me if I am going to the Christian hell or Muslim hell when i die? Both concepts are borrowed for the Zoroaster point of view.
In this life i will be making love to beautiful women and make millions of bucks once I stop drinking.
1 day at a time.
Hit the gym if you want to win.
kansaimagic 9 months ago 2
@kansaimagic I didn't know Zoro had a point of view on this subject. Oh well, live and learn. As for drinking and hitting the gym, doesn't work. I went drinking three weeks in a row and ran my car into the north wall of the neighborhood gym. Didn't do a damn bit of good. Burp!
JackKangaroo1 8 months ago
@JackKangaroo1
Good one Jack!
kansaimagic 8 months ago
The only people I have EVER heard say the universe exploded from nothing is creatards when they're attempting one of their staple strawmen.
WildcardHatesYou 9 months ago 3
@WildcardHatesYou Brilliant comment, haha. I'll likely steal some of your vocabulary. (Creatards)
CrapnellGates 8 months ago
@CrapnellGates hey im a creationist, i create weed !! and smoke that shit!!!
TheZigzagSmoke 8 months ago
The best argument for God is the fact that Christopher Hitchens exists.
KCkoolaidking 9 months ago
"What does that have to do with anything?!?" "Christopher, what does this have to do with the origins of DNA?" "Gould is wrong." "Hume was wrong."
What breathtaking inanity and arrogance.
The religiously corrupted mind will never cease to amaze me.
jeanfou1 9 months ago 3
I'm sorry folks. Look up frameshift mutations in DNA. Its evolution. That's addition to the genome. Sorry, yes Christianity is wrong
iliveon 9 months ago
So... how would this christian distinguish a capital G God from a being who has the power to resurrect itself, but no other powers? After all, if you're going to belief in beings with powers, then you might as well posit one with only a resurrection ability.
After all, if it rises from the dead, it's apperently god. That's what I heard the christian bleat.
Me, I think if it rose from the dead it's probably a magicians trick. But I'm not religious.
TheSkunkCat 9 months ago
Jesus: "ZOMG my mother was a virgin WORSHIP ME OR BURN!"
MamaMario13 9 months ago
The idea of irreducible complexity is flawed, but to answer the question directly, DNA is more energetically favorable than RNA in certain chemical environments . RNA organisms could not produce adenotriphosphate as efficiently as organisms that had a mutation that had unoxidized ribo-nucleic acid
tigerz2350 9 months ago
@tigerz2350 They don't really want an answer. Those 'questions' are merely obstacles put forward to shield their faith. e.g. (RP = Religious Person, A=Answer/Atheist)
RP- So if Darwin was right..how come no missing link fossils have been found?
A-Seeing as all species are in a constant state of flux, the term 'missing link' is a redundant one.Besides,there are countless fossils which show transitory aspects of anatomy..reptilian jaw forming inner ear of mammals.
They just ignore the answer...
comanchio1976 9 months ago
@tigerz2350 ....and move onto the next question. Even when you say that, the most convincing evidence for evolution is molecular genetics...and that it shows how species fall elegantly on that family tree. They ignore and move on.
They might as well stick their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la, I'm not listening!"..at least that would be more honest.
comanchio1976 9 months ago
Yes, Christians claim the universe is so complex it must have been created by a God, infinitely more complex, and yet that complex being would be so complex it itself would require an infinitely more complex creator, and so on.
Vahtacen 9 months ago
One book doesn't constitute evidence turek, especially it's the only thing in the world that confirms your rediculous claims.
skydome29 9 months ago
Wow Turek take a downer, your losing and it shows.
skydome29 9 months ago
I love Hitchens. Where other rational minds fall short on charisma in a debate, he destroys everything the religious side offers up.
LoK3y 9 months ago
Always funny
Reli-muppets come with BS like: Well, i want to engage in a debate about the existence of god but first you must believe my assumption he's real
sonykroket 9 months ago
Turek is being a total DICK
redshark618 9 months ago
Why do religious people, in debates like this, need to have the loudest voice? Discussions are won by arguments, not by making a lot of noise.
Skoda130 9 months ago
@Skoda130 i guess they feel if they talk louder , they are more believable . LoL
KongKit 9 months ago
As HJ Muller showed IC isn't proof of anything, as it's a feature of evolution.
"Genetic Variability, Twin Hybrids and Constant Hybrids, in a Case of Balanced Lethal Factors", by Hermann J Muller, in Genetics, Vol 3, No 5, Sept 1918,
Commonly it's known as the Muller two-step.
gamesbok 9 months ago
2:47 says it all. Tureck is a lightweight, not even in Hitchens intellectual weightclass.
thinlizzybone 10 months ago 2
1 guy here is a die hard christian haahhaah
managarm1349 10 months ago
The greatest thing that could have happened during this was the guy asking questions just said "Here is a question from ICP. 'Fuckin' magnet's, how do they work?'"
BrownieSyndrome 10 months ago
the one dislike on this video was god. haha, jk!
unspecifiedagent 10 months ago
Religion and Science is both wrong how could you all be so blind!
gilbert4321 10 months ago
Regardless of your position, it ought to be plainly apparent that one is debating and the other is just yelling.
GammelAske 10 months ago 2
look at Turek's body language, he is holding the chair his feet are wide apart: he is completely uncomfortable with being next to someone who is outsmarting him in every sort of way.. He must feel like that all the time I guess
Ioannisthegreat7 10 months ago
Lol Hitchens looks so bored by this whole thing.... It's like he's scolding a foolish child
pureAstonishment 11 months ago 4
Turek exposed as a charlatan at 2:33. Eat Hitch, dude.
BillF1967 11 months ago 3
The big bang only happened once? What?! Nobody said that it only happened once, in fact many scientists think that the universe expands and collapses over and over again in an endless cycle, that matter is eternal, changes form, and is compressed and expanded... this whole big bang happening once is a strawman and shows a general lack of scientific understanding on the religious guy's part, which shouldn't be surprising I know...
DarthMocha 1 year ago
Am I the only atheist watching this who's willing to go with Turk's point about singularities? Do I just not get it?
lanegwyn 1 year ago
@lanegwyn Mmm... as Hitchens said at the end.... a singularity and a miracle is blatantly different. Turek tried to use a swticheroo in those two words to make a point... and Hitchens caught it... actually... I think most people will catch it... its pretty retarded what he said about Hume...
UnizzyMD 11 months ago
@UnizzyMD Turek brought up Humes' argument against the supposed miracles, stating they were less likely to have actually happened because they only occurred once. He went on to apply this logic to other things he assumed occurred only once (even though there's no evidence of this) and made the claim that if he applied this logic other scientifically backed things, Humes would not have believed them. I don't see where the switcheroo was. (char limit)
SnowboardAssassin 10 months ago
@UnizzyMD Frankly, if I were Hitchens, I would have addressed the absurd claim that these things did indeed occur only once.
SnowboardAssassin 10 months ago
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@SnowboardAssassin "Frankly, if I were Hitchens, I would have addressed the absurd claim that these things did indeed occur only once."
Then you'd be missing the point. The examples Turek gave were just that, and the specifics of them are irrelevant to his argument. His point was that the occurrence of a singularity is the same as the occurrence of a miracle, and Hitchens called him on it.
Loals 9 months ago
This guy's a religious turd. Case closed. Any religious person that says "I'm trying to use evidence" is pulling this out of their butts. How can our species continue to advance when such childish notions are so pervasive and persuasive?
echalko 1 year ago
@echalko If you listen to The Four Horsemen video w/ Dennet, Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens toward the end of the program Hitchens makes that very point. In that program, he was very dubious about our chances to advance. He strongly suggests that the effects of religious fanaticism will probably be the end of our species...
GregoryPecary 1 year ago
@GregoryPecary And unfortunately he's probably right. We give ourselves so much credit but we can't see how underdeveloped we really are. The end of the world will not be from a deity returning to our insignificant sphere of rock, but from one of us pressing a button. Darn you Hitchens, why must you be so direct and probably correct!
echalko 1 year ago
Why does Hitchens waste his time with fucking idiots like this?
judojoe07 1 year ago