I think it does take guts to be vegan. I think if people have all the facts and they are caring and compassionate people the there is no other choice than to make a stand and change your ways. If you have the facts and chose to do nothing about it that worries me. It's no longer ignorance because the facts are known. Is it just that people are scared of being called `vegan' and whatever that will bring?
fried chicken is good. duhh. you be missing out on life. not happy with your diet? go for a walk. burn some calories, dont hurt the chicken though! stupid ass.
I went onto a vegan diet, and have never felt better. Sex drive just fine, I look 10 years younger, I sleep better (from all of the calcium in my veggie drinks). B-12 from food yeast. protein ? nuts, seeds, beans. Milk ? all vegan versions. Blood pressure low, cholesterol ? what cholesterol ?
how do you judge people for eating meat? you sound ignorant for criticizing people that eat meat. animals always reproduce and most are here for the purpose of food. eating meat is called being human. you act like a person from another planet to me
To answer your question,I consume meat because my body needs it.I tried raw and cooked vegan diets and both were destructive to my health.I was weak,tired,under-weight and I lost my sex drive.I felt awful.When I started eating meat again,my body returned to its normal,healthy state.Visit any meat eating forum on the web and you will find plenty of ex-veggies who will tell you the same story.You want to believe that people eat meat out of ignorance because the alternative is that you are wrong.
There's other diet options but none thats sufficient for some people, in 3rd Batallion Para's there's only 2 vegetarians & they eat lots of eggs to give them strength, theres no vegans. In a group of 600 guys you'd expect more than that. simple fact is all the vegans & most vegies can't get enough protein to pass the test
Our bodies are naturally designed to eat meat, some of our teeth are for tearing meat & our digestive tract produces 7 different enzymes that do nothing but break down meat
@SOPARA862k "simple fact is all the vegans & most vegies can't get enough protein to pass the test" This is laughable. Vegetarians and vegans have no trouble getting enough protein; protein deficiency is usually only seen in people who don't eat enough, regardless of whether they are omni, veggie, or vegan.
A vegan diet can meet the needs of anyone, from newborn infants and seniors to endurance athletes and bodybuilders.
i'm refering to enough protein within a 4000 calorie a day diet. i'm not talking about a defieceny to the point that you'd end up in hospital, i'm talking about the kind of protein to give you the strength to go over one of the toughest assault courses in the world, carry a 60kg telephone pole 2 miles over rough terrain, have a boxing fight, carry a person on a stretcher over several miles on rough terrain etc, these are the kind of things we had to do! you need serious amounts of protein.
@SOPARA862k The thing is, vegans can manage that kind of protein. Vegan bodybuilders do just what you're saying everyday. They do it by just eating more and/or drinking protein shakes, etc. and manage high calorie diets like you say(4000-5000 calorie diets). This is not the kind of diet you'd find the vast majority of vegans consuming, but people like Robert Cheeke are doing it. My point is, it can be done.
I am allergic to both soy and peanuts; the only substantial source of protein I can get is meat, does that make me ignorant? As you put it best, the claim is over the top; people have different world veiw points, let people beleive what they want to believe and do whats best for them.
@hazard808 Wow, appropriate that you're commenting on this video. While soy and peanuts are excellent sources of protein, they are far from the only vegan protein sources. Lentils and other types of beans have comparable amounts of protein. Grains also contribute significant amounts of protein in our diets. Having a healthy vegan diet without soy and peanuts is easy. :)
I would like to believe that it is all because of ignorance but unfortuantely for many I don't think that is the case. Alot of people just don't care enough to make the change and that I think is really sad.
For me it was definitely ignorance...or wilful ignorance to be more specific. I had reservations about eating animal flesh but like most people I avoided thinking about it.
When I decided to inform myself of the facts I very quickly came to the conclusion that veganism was the only option. And I haven't looked back since. :)
I think its the sterotypical vegan/veggie that is the problem, especially on the internet. I don't want to hear about how i'm an evil, murdering, pig slaying caveman. I want some rational points and argument, (which you seem to be good at by the way).
People overact to being called "ignorant". It just means you have "a lack of knowledge". It doesn't mean you're stupid or of lower intellect. I'm pretty ignorant about a lot of things.
Like Nykytne2 said on a recent vid, it's kind of amazing that hundreds of thousands of YouTube users will work themselves up into a frothy mob over a guy killing a puppy when you know the vast majority of them will happily go to the store and pick up some ground beef.
Clearly knowledge that killing occurs is far less powerful than witnessing it, and that is less than doing it. The fat man trolly dilemma demonstrates how taking part in killing weighs differently in the moral equation.
People buying groceries is a "passive act" unless they work really hard to make that act seem like they are doing the killing itself.
This is a feature of our brains from evolving in tight social groups. *Knowledge* of remote anon death is not a visceral moral input 4 our brains
Well said. Peoples' flippant approval of capital punishment is another example of this. Take 100 of them and have some serve as witnesses to it and others actually perform it and then re-survey them on their opinions.
Some people tend to think that I think of myself as better than them because I don't eat animals. I do not think this. I think my actions are better than theirs. And the reason for this, is their ignorance, denial and/or fear of change. Ignorance just means lacking knowledge. It doesn't mean lacking intelligence. Everybody is ignorant on many subjects. So people who are offended by this word just don't know the definition of the word ignorance.
Although many who don't go vegan do so not just due to ignorance but often out of denial and fear of change. I understand this. Most of us were raised on animal diets and their world revolves around it so it's scary to take a stance outside of the norm. But it is our duty as thinking compassionate beings to do the right thing whenever possible. And nothing could be more right than to allow others to live out their lives free of torment.
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Well, it depends on "who" or "what" source your education is coming from. SOme would argue that there are essential amino acids in meat that are crucial to your well being. Yes, you can find these in vegetables, but not a great of source as meat. I guess you got to weigh out the lesser of the two evils. My husband and I stopped eating red meats due to the heart risks. However, it is a high source of iron and protein.
Calorie for calorie, green leafy veggies are a better source for both and don't contain any saturated fat, cholesterol, hormones, etc. There is nothing in animal muscle that you can't get from plants.
For me, ignorance was a factor. I have always loved animals, was raised in a sometimes vegetarian home (depending on my dad's whims), but once I was out on my own, I actually decided to start eating more meant bcs I considered it to be natural, as many animals eat each other. My change actually came about bcs I struggled with the idea that animals are basically kept as slaves, and by extension, once I discovered that I felt it is wrong to enslave an animal....contd
(Part 2) then that meant that animals have legitimate self ownership, including a right to life. So, within about 3 days of that realization, my husband and I went vegan. In fact, we had planned to "ween into" veganism, but once we saw that we were violating the right's of other's, we just went "cold turkey" and have been vegan since then. I had just never considered their rights,desires etc, and once I did, it changed my life. I was never opposed to their rights, I just didn't think.
I totally agree with you... esp. now that i've recently come across a magazine article with a chart that shows greenhouse gas emissions from different food sources- meat tips the scales outrageously over veggies. ATM, my situation is such that the convenience of being an un-sensitive non-veg. or non-vegan is just too great. When I become independant again, I'll have the means. I tried it for a few couple of months while still living here and lost far too much weight.
That being the case what do you think of people thoughout the centuries who have been vegetarian and more recently vegan? Are we a mutation, a genetic abberation?
I eat meat because I simply do not see anything cruel about death or predation, just like I don't see anything cruel about the fact that water runs downhill or gamma rays can't pass through thick lead. The meat industry definitely provides some serious concerns, but the logical response to that, in my mind, is to correct the behavior of the meat industry, not to stop eating meat. I find the "ignorance" position a bit pompous - I would say veganism comes from excessive sympathy, not rationality.
It just means non-knowingness, there is no value judgement intended. The majority of people I have met in real life ARE ignorant on how both human nutrition and slaughterhouses work, just as I was for my entire life. Once I had that information I was spurred by my conscience to make a rational decision based on research (i.e. if veganism was not possible I wouldn't have done it). I do not see how there is anything wrong with the emotional...
...component of this decision making process. I cannot apply the golden rule to other humans without first consulting my feelings and asking 'how would I feel in this situation'. We as a society believe that people who are incapable of / refuse to do this are dangerous, both to human life and to some priveleged animal life (cats, dogs etc), however we fail to make the connection out to other sentient life we happen not to share our homes with. I see nothing wrong with necessary death & predation
...any more then I have a problem with violence against humans in self defense, but the simple fact is that the majority of people in the developed world (the biggest consumers of animal products) have no need to be eating meat as they have access to so many other products. So then it either comes down to not knowing (i.e. ignorance) buying meat is inessential, not knowing farmed animals are just as sentient as your cat or dog, that they suffer etc OR simply not giving a flying fuck.
But see, this is part of the problem. You're mixing in your own personal beliefs with facts and then acting like they're the same. As a result, you're simplifying the issue beyond all recognition. Farmed animals have comparable sentience to domestic animals and they suffer? Not "knowing" that isn't ignorance, because you made it up. There is absolutely no objective or scientific way to quantify those statements. This is a topic that's still the subject of rigorous scientific debate and you...
...act as if the answers have already been conclusively settled upon. Even if what you say were fact and not speculation, it's still your own perspective that leads you to think all suffering and death needs to be avoided unless absolutely necessary. There's nothing wrong with emotional judgments, but they are NOT rational judgments, they are emotional judgments. You didn't come to a logically correct conclusion, you came to the conclusion that makes you feel most comfortable.
but why would one assume that animals are not sentient, when whilst there is no subjective proof that they are, there is no proof (objective or subjective) that they aren't?
Nobody's assuming that animals aren't sentient. What I'm saying is that, when someone is "ignorant" of an opinion, it's not really ignorance at all. It's a difference of opinion. The objective answers to these questions are in neuroscience. We can differentiate which parts of the brain are present in humans and not other animals and what those parts of the brain do. We can postulate on what that means about how animals understand the world, but it's hard to call any conclusions "factual."
(P.S. to VeganicWitch upon rereading my comments; I don't mean to imply that your conclusion is wrong because it's not reached through purely logical methods, all that I'm trying to say is that people can be well-informed, compassionate, and still disagree. This isn't a cut and dry issue and that's why there are so many different opinions on it. I think you're an insightful and intelligent person and I do respect your perspective.)
We know that farmed animals are able to experience pain and fear. We know this because fear reactions are measured by to adrenaline in the blood during the slaughtering process to identify slaughtering processes that are less stressful (i.e. those that result in less adrenaline release). We also know animals feel pain in two ways, one is the purely scientific method by which we have identified that they possess nerves and the appropriate receptors in the brain to process pain and also by...
...observation; when animals are cut, branded etc they cry out like a human would. In relation to intellegence (which vegans do not consider but many others use as criterion for whether an organism should be exploited or not) a pig is proven to be more intellegent then a dog, and in one experiment where pigs, dogs and chimps were trained to use a simple computer program which gradually got more complex the pigs beat the dogs and even some of the chimps! This information is what convinces me...
...that there are no meaningful differences between farmed animals and companion animals. As I would not eat a dog outside of extenuating circumstances, how can I ethically justify eating a pig? This is now in the realm of critical reasoning and outside of the emotional; into ethics and away from 'oh noes, don't be mean to to kewt animalz!' LOL
Thanks for your P.S. I appreciate your opinion too, it is always good to be respectfully challenged :-)
Ah, good evidence. This gets into some pretty hefty philosophy and science, so I'll answer you in a PM in the interest of saving us both a little time with the comment limit. Don't know if I'll finish it before I have to go to class and I'm sure neither of us will probably change the other's perspective on this completely, but I'd like to talk about this more.
i was raised on non vegan diet but when I realized in high school about how they kill animals for fur and meat, I became vegetarian and now I am vegan for over a year. anyhow it was mostly due to ignorance and the govt is in cohorts with the meat and dairy industry and people don't know about the cruelty and how it is unhealthy.
I think for a lot of people, it's more of convenience. It's easier to just grab any food product without having to check to see if it contains any animal products in it... just like it's easier to not check for how much fat, sugar, etc..
Though it's ignorance on some peoples part, for others it's just simple apathy. But life has a way of balancing the scales; we're paying for it with all the deaths from heart attacks or in the form of climate change in part from factory farming.
Because we're such shitty stewards of the earth, I think we've run our course as a species. In other words we're not worthy of living on this planet.
I've encountered two reasons for people not being vegetarians/vegans:
1. They believe that harming animals is wrong, but they do not know or they purposely ignore what goes on at farms.
2. They do not believe that harming animals is wrong, or they believe that the benefits of consuming animal products outweigh the costs to the animals.
I'm a bit of a paradoxical case because I'm a moral nihilist, but I'm a vegan because I would feel bad if I knew that my actions were causing pain.
What kept me from going vegetarian/vegan at first was ignorance. I just did not want to admit to what was really going on. Then it turned into "I want to change my lifestyle, but it's too hard." I kept going back and forth with vegetarianism.
After I did some serious research and watched some serious videos I decided "That's it!" I stopped eating meat for good because I just could not take it anymore.
It's the best decision I have ever made in my life.
I don't think that people are oblivious to cruelty at all. Just look at practices that used to go on such as bull baiting that used to be a public entertainment as well as serving a function in the slaughter of the animal for food. Argueably systematic animal cruelty was carried out on a far smaller scale in the pre-modern era, yet people generally believe that we have somehow progressed to become less violent and cruel than our ancestors.
To some degree finding entertainment in the suffering of others has been replaced by apathy towards it, mainly due to technology and 'rationalisation' of the exploitative processes. This is what appologists for modernity cite as 'progress'.
I think anyone would be hard pressed to have to look into the reality of things, whether they eat meat or not. I've had people say they don't want to see videos of factory farms because they eat meat and they know those videos will make they stop. For a lot of people, ignorance is bliss.
As long as you've found out what you were thinking and doing wrong back then and made a decision to change your ways and start over a new way,which you have and done a very good job of.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for those brilliant recommendations!!!!!
Let's hope to Gaia that this dreadful near pandemic of H1N1 or swine flu becomes a turning point that will at least put an end to the inhumane practice of factory farms.
In Mexico, countless ecosystems are eaten out of house and home by the cattle industry.
A lot of people either don't know or don't care about the plight of "mere" animals, but I'm sure nearly everyone cares about human welfare and the safety of children. And factory farming can potentially kill millions of people in a few weeks, to the total ruin of world economy, and maybe even to the end of our precious and hard-won civilization.
Let's stop those maniacs before it's too late !!!!!
meat is tastey(let the flaming begin), but on a moral level, i just realized onee day that it was wrong, and decided then, it feels like, even though it has been little over a week, it feels like i have been vegetarian my entire life, i needed to stop. I admit, i have had one time i wanted to(chicken wings-my one weakness) eat meat again, but i refrained, esspecially after my father callously said "a little bit won't hurt" i was ready to say what i really felt, but simply declined.
great video, much respect to you... you are still one of my favorite girls. I know I'm not around so much anymore, but ya know how that goes. much Love to you and stay strong, we believe in you!
Ignorance is probably the first reason why I ate meat. I honestly had no idea the exact extent of the torture these animals have to go through. I knew that animal deaths weren't cool.. But I just kind of accepted it as something we needed to survive.
Also, I knew a vegetarian once, and nutrition has always been an interesting topic to me. I know it is going to sound really really terrible, but I asked her honestly where she got her protein (because I was curious)
and she just totally blew up at me, instead of just explaining things rationally. A lot of people had called this woman crazy, and after that I kind of thought she was too, and that the "vegetarianism" was part of her "craziness... Anyway, because of that experience I never really thought about researching vegetarianism again for 5 or six years. Once I did, I realized that if that person WAS crazy, it had nothing to do with her vegetarianism. But still, I was totally put off at first by
her reaction to a harmless and curious question. (Although, I do understand now that she was probably just sick of hearing this question, even if it came from an honest place.
I don't think it's necessarily about callousness or ignorance, but ego/selfishness. Most people simply do not want to believe that the rules apply to them - "other people have to (save the world/care about causes/give money & time to help) but **I** don't want to." and so on.
Then there is (what I believe to be) this Christian hold-over idea that animals are somehow different from or beneath us. Many people simply aren't willing to acknowledge their sentience, emotional complexity, etc.
I think those ideas make for what we sometimes term "willful ignorance." Jessamine, you said something in your "What I am/What I am not" videos that I really liked: "sanity is not determined by numbers."
Most people believe that this *is* the case to the extent that they're willing to disbelieve an idea purely on the basis of it being a minority opinion. Add to that that they've got bazillion-dollar agribusiness giving them confirmation, and PRESTO! Willful ignorance again.
If this were so Noah would have let the animals perish in the great flood. But further, you have to look at Darwinism in understanding the survival of the fittest mentality. I think people are taught in institutions such as the home, school, and other places that eating meat is essntial to good health. In theory, it comes down to being miseducated perhaps.
I agree with yeahwotevaman, the fact that you call it "Darwinism" bugs me.
Nobody quotes the story of Noah's Ark when they're explaining why they think "God" told them to eat meat. Just because it has animals in it, doesn't mean it's relevant.
I was saying that b/c of your comment about how the "Christian hold-over idea that animals are somehow different from or beneath us." The fact that they were salvaged is my point. It contradicts your statement entirely. And Darwinism you may not agree with, but it is taught in every institution, so either thousands of scholars must be complete idiots and and we are all wrong or vice versa.
"Darwinism" is a label that some people (like young-earth-creationists, for example) call the extremely well-supported theory of evolution/natural selection. Darwin was not the first to suggest that species change over time and in response to their environment. The suffix "ism" give the implication of a belief system, which the theory of evolution is not. It's a series of postulates that have been documented by the fossil record.
That's why some people don't like the word "Darwinism".
Now on to Noah's ark and why it's totally irrelevant to what I'm saying:
From a critical POV, I'd argue that the ark is more of a plot device to demonstrate a great undertaking in the name of faith. Yes, he spares 7 pairs of each "clean" species and 1 pair of each "unclean" species, but he kills the rest. Noah's Ark is definitely NOT a story about how "God", who demands animal sacrifices up to and beyond this point in the bible, loves animals so much.
The animal sacrifice thing brings up a good point, now that I think of it.
God never allows asks to make a human sacrifice, only animals. It's true that he asks Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, but God doesn't allow Abraham to go through with it.
This seems like good evidence that God thinks animals are beneath people. That and the fact that in Gen 1:26 he says that man "rules/has dominion" (depending on which version you like) over every animal that swims walks or flies...
I believe that there is no hierarchy of which life form is more "important" in an objective sense -- that is a human construct. In Western culture, it's most often supported by a mandate from the Abrahamic god, as though it came from an external source. eg: "God gave us animals to eat"
I believe that once it is realized that such a mandate is purely a fabrication, as the aforementioned god is a fabrication, the hierarchy must be re-examined.
Given that animals feel experience pain, emotions & self-awareness whereas plants do not, I feel the most ethical choice to eat the one that is not self-aware. One screams out & writhes in agony when you cut it, the other does not.
As a critically thinking person, yes, I realize there's possibility (however remote) that plants sense pain on a level that we're currently unable to measure. But, to me, a choice between what I KNOW to be so & what may (or may not) be so is really no choice at all.
My conclusion, upon that re-examination of the hierarchy, is that all creatures have a survival instinct and do not wish to die. As such, I believe that constitutes a "right to life" that is irrespective of species.
That being said, however, if I found myself in a burning building with my husband and a mouse, I'm sure I'd save my husband.
That doesn't give CAFOs the right to torture conscious living beings though.
Wow, I love how I am rated negative so much considering.. lol
Speaking of "ignorance" and veganism, what about the vitamin B12 which is crucial to blood development? How does a vegan supplement this? I am simply trying to figure this out considering I've changed my diet. (And no not completely vegan).
OK. I had this discussion recently with a fellow vegan. The 'sensible' approach is to ensure that you eat/drink products that are fortified with vitamin B12 or take a vitamin supplement with B12.
Some people may say, "Ah ah! This PROVES that veganism isn't natural." Well, not really. Most products with added vitamins and minerals are for the GENERAL POPULATION and some are not even suitable for vegans.
Many animals destined to become meat have certain supplements added to their feed. E.g. iodine so that the meat has a higher content. This is obviously not for vegans/vegetarians. Without the added iodine, apparently, most of the population would be lacking.
So the whole argument about 'Veganism is not natural because they need to take supplements.' is a fallacy.
Pretty much everyone is knowingly or unknowingly take 'supplements'.
Well, it could be that people are brought up ob the food pyramid. I know I live here in the States, and all health classes whether it be grade school, high school, or college, promote the food pyramid. It is taught early on that meat is essential for iron, amino acids, and of course protein. So it depends on where you are I guess as far as what is being taught. I am personally not a vegan. However, I don't judge people who are. I don't eat a lot of red meat b/c of the cancer/heart issue.
A lot of people are just ignorant and are also brought up not to think about it, but some people, possibly many, just don't care about anything other than satiating themselves and their own greed.
For the most part I try to avoid all animal products but I've recently moved back to Scotland and up here I'm the only vegetarian I know I tell people I'm veggie and I'm enough of an outcast for that let alone if I tell people I'm vegan.
I understand what you mean. I'm not a vegan as I believe you know, BUT I do realize we are basically torturing animals for our dining pleasure.
I as well prefer to believe people are unaware of the facts rather than that alternative. I deal with my meat eating by trying not to think about it, or rationalizing (I can't afford to go vegan, or it's to much work, or that I'm addicted to meat like I am to cigarettes)
I think it does take guts to be vegan. I think if people have all the facts and they are caring and compassionate people the there is no other choice than to make a stand and change your ways. If you have the facts and chose to do nothing about it that worries me. It's no longer ignorance because the facts are known. Is it just that people are scared of being called `vegan' and whatever that will bring?
ShelterHelperDogs 1 month ago
I have worked in the meat industry, from farming, to butchery. You have no idea.
Bennyistipsy 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
fried chicken is good. duhh. you be missing out on life. not happy with your diet? go for a walk. burn some calories, dont hurt the chicken though! stupid ass.
yousuckballzsack 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I went onto a vegan diet, and have never felt better. Sex drive just fine, I look 10 years younger, I sleep better (from all of the calcium in my veggie drinks). B-12 from food yeast. protein ? nuts, seeds, beans. Milk ? all vegan versions. Blood pressure low, cholesterol ? what cholesterol ?
qwondoflex 6 months ago
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."~ Dr. Seuss
You present your views with dignity and maturity and courtesy.xx
Elfwife 1 year ago
how do you judge people for eating meat? you sound ignorant for criticizing people that eat meat. animals always reproduce and most are here for the purpose of food. eating meat is called being human. you act like a person from another planet to me
publishedcontent 1 year ago
To answer your question,I consume meat because my body needs it.I tried raw and cooked vegan diets and both were destructive to my health.I was weak,tired,under-weight and I lost my sex drive.I felt awful.When I started eating meat again,my body returned to its normal,healthy state.Visit any meat eating forum on the web and you will find plenty of ex-veggies who will tell you the same story.You want to believe that people eat meat out of ignorance because the alternative is that you are wrong.
LittleBigMan81 1 year ago
There's other diet options but none thats sufficient for some people, in 3rd Batallion Para's there's only 2 vegetarians & they eat lots of eggs to give them strength, theres no vegans. In a group of 600 guys you'd expect more than that. simple fact is all the vegans & most vegies can't get enough protein to pass the test
Our bodies are naturally designed to eat meat, some of our teeth are for tearing meat & our digestive tract produces 7 different enzymes that do nothing but break down meat
SOPARA862k 1 year ago
@SOPARA862k "simple fact is all the vegans & most vegies can't get enough protein to pass the test" This is laughable. Vegetarians and vegans have no trouble getting enough protein; protein deficiency is usually only seen in people who don't eat enough, regardless of whether they are omni, veggie, or vegan.
A vegan diet can meet the needs of anyone, from newborn infants and seniors to endurance athletes and bodybuilders.
kimberlily1983 1 year ago
i'm refering to enough protein within a 4000 calorie a day diet. i'm not talking about a defieceny to the point that you'd end up in hospital, i'm talking about the kind of protein to give you the strength to go over one of the toughest assault courses in the world, carry a 60kg telephone pole 2 miles over rough terrain, have a boxing fight, carry a person on a stretcher over several miles on rough terrain etc, these are the kind of things we had to do! you need serious amounts of protein.
SOPARA862k 1 year ago
@SOPARA862k The thing is, vegans can manage that kind of protein. Vegan bodybuilders do just what you're saying everyday. They do it by just eating more and/or drinking protein shakes, etc. and manage high calorie diets like you say(4000-5000 calorie diets). This is not the kind of diet you'd find the vast majority of vegans consuming, but people like Robert Cheeke are doing it. My point is, it can be done.
kimberlily1983 1 year ago
I am allergic to both soy and peanuts; the only substantial source of protein I can get is meat, does that make me ignorant? As you put it best, the claim is over the top; people have different world veiw points, let people beleive what they want to believe and do whats best for them.
hazard808 1 year ago
@hazard808 Wow, appropriate that you're commenting on this video. While soy and peanuts are excellent sources of protein, they are far from the only vegan protein sources. Lentils and other types of beans have comparable amounts of protein. Grains also contribute significant amounts of protein in our diets. Having a healthy vegan diet without soy and peanuts is easy. :)
kimberlily1983 1 year ago
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For an ideal compromise between carnivorism and vegetarianism, find out about mammaltarianism, a diet that excludes most mammal meat.
Search "Mammaltarianism" on YouTube.
Go Mammals!
rlaist 2 years ago
Ahh, I'm so glad that you shared your reasoning behind your other video. I totally understand what you mean. Nice dahling! =]
london1608 2 years ago
I would like to believe that it is all because of ignorance but unfortuantely for many I don't think that is the case. Alot of people just don't care enough to make the change and that I think is really sad.
LardFeatures 2 years ago
For me it was definitely ignorance...or wilful ignorance to be more specific. I had reservations about eating animal flesh but like most people I avoided thinking about it.
When I decided to inform myself of the facts I very quickly came to the conclusion that veganism was the only option. And I haven't looked back since. :)
LardFeatures 2 years ago
I think its the sterotypical vegan/veggie that is the problem, especially on the internet. I don't want to hear about how i'm an evil, murdering, pig slaying caveman. I want some rational points and argument, (which you seem to be good at by the way).
optiuum67 2 years ago
hey, i am vegan and i get B12 all the time, i even have more than enough iron, also, sorry to spoil your fun but i don't take pills or supplements.
shadow7582312 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Our bodies need Iron to survive, You need to read more.. Meat provides protein and vitiman B12..Its a known fact!
seenote0 2 years ago
where do animals get that from?
dumbass
TheLonelyWaffleKid 2 years ago
Im not going to keep doing your homework for you...LOL Im the dumb one??
seenote0 2 years ago
yup you are. it was a rhetorical question mister "Smarty".
TheLonelyWaffleKid 2 years ago 2
Good points
HappyCabbie 2 years ago
People overact to being called "ignorant". It just means you have "a lack of knowledge". It doesn't mean you're stupid or of lower intellect. I'm pretty ignorant about a lot of things.
Like Nykytne2 said on a recent vid, it's kind of amazing that hundreds of thousands of YouTube users will work themselves up into a frothy mob over a guy killing a puppy when you know the vast majority of them will happily go to the store and pick up some ground beef.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago 5
Clearly knowledge that killing occurs is far less powerful than witnessing it, and that is less than doing it. The fat man trolly dilemma demonstrates how taking part in killing weighs differently in the moral equation.
People buying groceries is a "passive act" unless they work really hard to make that act seem like they are doing the killing itself.
This is a feature of our brains from evolving in tight social groups. *Knowledge* of remote anon death is not a visceral moral input 4 our brains
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Well said. Peoples' flippant approval of capital punishment is another example of this. Take 100 of them and have some serve as witnesses to it and others actually perform it and then re-survey them on their opinions.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Some people tend to think that I think of myself as better than them because I don't eat animals. I do not think this. I think my actions are better than theirs. And the reason for this, is their ignorance, denial and/or fear of change. Ignorance just means lacking knowledge. It doesn't mean lacking intelligence. Everybody is ignorant on many subjects. So people who are offended by this word just don't know the definition of the word ignorance.
TheVeganHere 2 years ago
Although many who don't go vegan do so not just due to ignorance but often out of denial and fear of change. I understand this. Most of us were raised on animal diets and their world revolves around it so it's scary to take a stance outside of the norm. But it is our duty as thinking compassionate beings to do the right thing whenever possible. And nothing could be more right than to allow others to live out their lives free of torment.
TheVeganHere 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Well, it depends on "who" or "what" source your education is coming from. SOme would argue that there are essential amino acids in meat that are crucial to your well being. Yes, you can find these in vegetables, but not a great of source as meat. I guess you got to weigh out the lesser of the two evils. My husband and I stopped eating red meats due to the heart risks. However, it is a high source of iron and protein.
Freeurmindom 2 years ago
Calorie for calorie, green leafy veggies are a better source for both and don't contain any saturated fat, cholesterol, hormones, etc. There is nothing in animal muscle that you can't get from plants.
VibrantVegan 2 years ago 4
@VibrantVegan B12 is only found in animal products. Same with many amino acids.
Karyn64 6 months ago
For me, ignorance was a factor. I have always loved animals, was raised in a sometimes vegetarian home (depending on my dad's whims), but once I was out on my own, I actually decided to start eating more meant bcs I considered it to be natural, as many animals eat each other. My change actually came about bcs I struggled with the idea that animals are basically kept as slaves, and by extension, once I discovered that I felt it is wrong to enslave an animal....contd
baxterandcotton 2 years ago
(Part 2) then that meant that animals have legitimate self ownership, including a right to life. So, within about 3 days of that realization, my husband and I went vegan. In fact, we had planned to "ween into" veganism, but once we saw that we were violating the right's of other's, we just went "cold turkey" and have been vegan since then. I had just never considered their rights,desires etc, and once I did, it changed my life. I was never opposed to their rights, I just didn't think.
baxterandcotton 2 years ago
I totally agree with you... esp. now that i've recently come across a magazine article with a chart that shows greenhouse gas emissions from different food sources- meat tips the scales outrageously over veggies. ATM, my situation is such that the convenience of being an un-sensitive non-veg. or non-vegan is just too great. When I become independant again, I'll have the means. I tried it for a few couple of months while still living here and lost far too much weight.
dalyfilms 2 years ago
its a bit sad how you just have to accept that people wont listen to you. oh well :)
yayw00pamy 2 years ago
i dont support factory eggz, lil chickens stuffed in cages & forced to wear a cut off sleeve lacrosse t-shirt w/ purple shorts & flipflops
mousetrench 2 years ago
1:50 well it's not. It's driven by physics/chemistry/evolution.
anthonzi 2 years ago
That being the case what do you think of people thoughout the centuries who have been vegetarian and more recently vegan? Are we a mutation, a genetic abberation?
TheVeganicWitch 2 years ago
No, just a meme. One that can survive with our fairly recent discovery of farming.
anthonzi 2 years ago
I eat meat because I simply do not see anything cruel about death or predation, just like I don't see anything cruel about the fact that water runs downhill or gamma rays can't pass through thick lead. The meat industry definitely provides some serious concerns, but the logical response to that, in my mind, is to correct the behavior of the meat industry, not to stop eating meat. I find the "ignorance" position a bit pompous - I would say veganism comes from excessive sympathy, not rationality.
Cerebrocaust 2 years ago
"I find the "ignorance" position a bit pompous"
It just means non-knowingness, there is no value judgement intended. The majority of people I have met in real life ARE ignorant on how both human nutrition and slaughterhouses work, just as I was for my entire life. Once I had that information I was spurred by my conscience to make a rational decision based on research (i.e. if veganism was not possible I wouldn't have done it). I do not see how there is anything wrong with the emotional...
TheVeganicWitch 2 years ago
...component of this decision making process. I cannot apply the golden rule to other humans without first consulting my feelings and asking 'how would I feel in this situation'. We as a society believe that people who are incapable of / refuse to do this are dangerous, both to human life and to some priveleged animal life (cats, dogs etc), however we fail to make the connection out to other sentient life we happen not to share our homes with. I see nothing wrong with necessary death & predation
TheVeganicWitch 2 years ago
...any more then I have a problem with violence against humans in self defense, but the simple fact is that the majority of people in the developed world (the biggest consumers of animal products) have no need to be eating meat as they have access to so many other products. So then it either comes down to not knowing (i.e. ignorance) buying meat is inessential, not knowing farmed animals are just as sentient as your cat or dog, that they suffer etc OR simply not giving a flying fuck.
TheVeganicWitch 2 years ago
But see, this is part of the problem. You're mixing in your own personal beliefs with facts and then acting like they're the same. As a result, you're simplifying the issue beyond all recognition. Farmed animals have comparable sentience to domestic animals and they suffer? Not "knowing" that isn't ignorance, because you made it up. There is absolutely no objective or scientific way to quantify those statements. This is a topic that's still the subject of rigorous scientific debate and you...
Cerebrocaust 2 years ago
...act as if the answers have already been conclusively settled upon. Even if what you say were fact and not speculation, it's still your own perspective that leads you to think all suffering and death needs to be avoided unless absolutely necessary. There's nothing wrong with emotional judgments, but they are NOT rational judgments, they are emotional judgments. You didn't come to a logically correct conclusion, you came to the conclusion that makes you feel most comfortable.
Cerebrocaust 2 years ago
but why would one assume that animals are not sentient, when whilst there is no subjective proof that they are, there is no proof (objective or subjective) that they aren't?
yayw00pamy 2 years ago
Nobody's assuming that animals aren't sentient. What I'm saying is that, when someone is "ignorant" of an opinion, it's not really ignorance at all. It's a difference of opinion. The objective answers to these questions are in neuroscience. We can differentiate which parts of the brain are present in humans and not other animals and what those parts of the brain do. We can postulate on what that means about how animals understand the world, but it's hard to call any conclusions "factual."
Cerebrocaust 2 years ago
(P.S. to VeganicWitch upon rereading my comments; I don't mean to imply that your conclusion is wrong because it's not reached through purely logical methods, all that I'm trying to say is that people can be well-informed, compassionate, and still disagree. This isn't a cut and dry issue and that's why there are so many different opinions on it. I think you're an insightful and intelligent person and I do respect your perspective.)
Cerebrocaust 2 years ago
We know that farmed animals are able to experience pain and fear. We know this because fear reactions are measured by to adrenaline in the blood during the slaughtering process to identify slaughtering processes that are less stressful (i.e. those that result in less adrenaline release). We also know animals feel pain in two ways, one is the purely scientific method by which we have identified that they possess nerves and the appropriate receptors in the brain to process pain and also by...
TheVeganicWitch 2 years ago
...observation; when animals are cut, branded etc they cry out like a human would. In relation to intellegence (which vegans do not consider but many others use as criterion for whether an organism should be exploited or not) a pig is proven to be more intellegent then a dog, and in one experiment where pigs, dogs and chimps were trained to use a simple computer program which gradually got more complex the pigs beat the dogs and even some of the chimps! This information is what convinces me...
TheVeganicWitch 2 years ago
...that there are no meaningful differences between farmed animals and companion animals. As I would not eat a dog outside of extenuating circumstances, how can I ethically justify eating a pig? This is now in the realm of critical reasoning and outside of the emotional; into ethics and away from 'oh noes, don't be mean to to kewt animalz!' LOL
Thanks for your P.S. I appreciate your opinion too, it is always good to be respectfully challenged :-)
TheVeganicWitch 2 years ago
Ah, good evidence. This gets into some pretty hefty philosophy and science, so I'll answer you in a PM in the interest of saving us both a little time with the comment limit. Don't know if I'll finish it before I have to go to class and I'm sure neither of us will probably change the other's perspective on this completely, but I'd like to talk about this more.
Cerebrocaust 2 years ago
That would be great :-)
TheVeganicWitch 2 years ago
i was raised on non vegan diet but when I realized in high school about how they kill animals for fur and meat, I became vegetarian and now I am vegan for over a year. anyhow it was mostly due to ignorance and the govt is in cohorts with the meat and dairy industry and people don't know about the cruelty and how it is unhealthy.
horsesinnyc 2 years ago
I think for a lot of people, it's more of convenience. It's easier to just grab any food product without having to check to see if it contains any animal products in it... just like it's easier to not check for how much fat, sugar, etc..
xxbeautybabesxx 2 years ago
Though it's ignorance on some peoples part, for others it's just simple apathy. But life has a way of balancing the scales; we're paying for it with all the deaths from heart attacks or in the form of climate change in part from factory farming.
Because we're such shitty stewards of the earth, I think we've run our course as a species. In other words we're not worthy of living on this planet.
resedoton 2 years ago
I've encountered two reasons for people not being vegetarians/vegans:
1. They believe that harming animals is wrong, but they do not know or they purposely ignore what goes on at farms.
2. They do not believe that harming animals is wrong, or they believe that the benefits of consuming animal products outweigh the costs to the animals.
I'm a bit of a paradoxical case because I'm a moral nihilist, but I'm a vegan because I would feel bad if I knew that my actions were causing pain.
MagicFlowerPlant 2 years ago
What kept me from going vegetarian/vegan at first was ignorance. I just did not want to admit to what was really going on. Then it turned into "I want to change my lifestyle, but it's too hard." I kept going back and forth with vegetarianism.
After I did some serious research and watched some serious videos I decided "That's it!" I stopped eating meat for good because I just could not take it anymore.
It's the best decision I have ever made in my life.
xEndlessAutumnx 2 years ago
Good video. It would be nice to think it is about ignorance, but I think a lot of it is just that people don't care.
AranSPEAKS 2 years ago
the people that I've talked to just don't care. I try to tell them, and they're like, but I like meat! ARRRGGG!
middleC17 2 years ago
I don't think that people are oblivious to cruelty at all. Just look at practices that used to go on such as bull baiting that used to be a public entertainment as well as serving a function in the slaughter of the animal for food. Argueably systematic animal cruelty was carried out on a far smaller scale in the pre-modern era, yet people generally believe that we have somehow progressed to become less violent and cruel than our ancestors.
yeahwotevaman 2 years ago
To some degree finding entertainment in the suffering of others has been replaced by apathy towards it, mainly due to technology and 'rationalisation' of the exploitative processes. This is what appologists for modernity cite as 'progress'.
yeahwotevaman 2 years ago
I think anyone would be hard pressed to have to look into the reality of things, whether they eat meat or not. I've had people say they don't want to see videos of factory farms because they eat meat and they know those videos will make they stop. For a lot of people, ignorance is bliss.
DeckChimp 2 years ago
For me, it wasn't ignorance that kept me eating some animal products. It was peer pressure.
kangarooelaine 2 years ago
PS - the peer pressure (and laziness and apathy and perception of difficulty) kept me vegetarian, though, not omni.
:)
kangarooelaine 2 years ago
As long as you've found out what you were thinking and doing wrong back then and made a decision to change your ways and start over a new way,which you have and done a very good job of.
wishiremembered 2 years ago
Do a vid about swine flu and how it's caused by the crowded and confined raising of millions of pigs.
Adipatus 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
kangarooelaine 2 years ago
@ Adipatus
FYI:
watch?v=ntG1m1Z65Ic
watch?v=j10SQpCO9Wc
watch?v=WRk-NTa7KXo
kangarooelaine 2 years ago
@ kangarooelaine:
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for those brilliant recommendations!!!!!
Let's hope to Gaia that this dreadful near pandemic of H1N1 or swine flu becomes a turning point that will at least put an end to the inhumane practice of factory farms.
Adipatus 2 years ago
In Mexico, countless ecosystems are eaten out of house and home by the cattle industry.
A lot of people either don't know or don't care about the plight of "mere" animals, but I'm sure nearly everyone cares about human welfare and the safety of children. And factory farming can potentially kill millions of people in a few weeks, to the total ruin of world economy, and maybe even to the end of our precious and hard-won civilization.
Let's stop those maniacs before it's too late !!!!!
Adipatus 2 years ago
meat is tastey(let the flaming begin), but on a moral level, i just realized onee day that it was wrong, and decided then, it feels like, even though it has been little over a week, it feels like i have been vegetarian my entire life, i needed to stop. I admit, i have had one time i wanted to(chicken wings-my one weakness) eat meat again, but i refrained, esspecially after my father callously said "a little bit won't hurt" i was ready to say what i really felt, but simply declined.
sliferredleader 2 years ago
I wasn't aware that there were other options and I tried to ignore that my food came from dead animals.
I also liked to believe it came from animals that died naturally of old age or something.
If it weren't for the internet, I probably wouldn't have become vegan. I was the first vegan I knew irl. :(
VictorianStraightUp 2 years ago 2
great video, much respect to you... you are still one of my favorite girls. I know I'm not around so much anymore, but ya know how that goes. much Love to you and stay strong, we believe in you!
Peace&Love
Skulls2300 2 years ago 2
Ignorance is probably the first reason why I ate meat. I honestly had no idea the exact extent of the torture these animals have to go through. I knew that animal deaths weren't cool.. But I just kind of accepted it as something we needed to survive.
Also, I knew a vegetarian once, and nutrition has always been an interesting topic to me. I know it is going to sound really really terrible, but I asked her honestly where she got her protein (because I was curious)
faete31 2 years ago
and she just totally blew up at me, instead of just explaining things rationally. A lot of people had called this woman crazy, and after that I kind of thought she was too, and that the "vegetarianism" was part of her "craziness... Anyway, because of that experience I never really thought about researching vegetarianism again for 5 or six years. Once I did, I realized that if that person WAS crazy, it had nothing to do with her vegetarianism. But still, I was totally put off at first by
faete31 2 years ago 2
her reaction to a harmless and curious question. (Although, I do understand now that she was probably just sick of hearing this question, even if it came from an honest place.
faete31 2 years ago 2
I don't think it's necessarily about callousness or ignorance, but ego/selfishness. Most people simply do not want to believe that the rules apply to them - "other people have to (save the world/care about causes/give money & time to help) but **I** don't want to." and so on.
Then there is (what I believe to be) this Christian hold-over idea that animals are somehow different from or beneath us. Many people simply aren't willing to acknowledge their sentience, emotional complexity, etc.
CatCommunication 2 years ago 2
I think those ideas make for what we sometimes term "willful ignorance." Jessamine, you said something in your "What I am/What I am not" videos that I really liked: "sanity is not determined by numbers."
Most people believe that this *is* the case to the extent that they're willing to disbelieve an idea purely on the basis of it being a minority opinion. Add to that that they've got bazillion-dollar agribusiness giving them confirmation, and PRESTO! Willful ignorance again.
CatCommunication 2 years ago
This is not just a "Christian" ideal.
If this were so Noah would have let the animals perish in the great flood. But further, you have to look at Darwinism in understanding the survival of the fittest mentality. I think people are taught in institutions such as the home, school, and other places that eating meat is essntial to good health. In theory, it comes down to being miseducated perhaps.
Freeurmindom 2 years ago
There is no such thing as 'darwinism'.
yeahwotevaman 2 years ago
I agree with yeahwotevaman, the fact that you call it "Darwinism" bugs me.
Nobody quotes the story of Noah's Ark when they're explaining why they think "God" told them to eat meat. Just because it has animals in it, doesn't mean it's relevant.
CatCommunication 2 years ago
I was saying that b/c of your comment about how the "Christian hold-over idea that animals are somehow different from or beneath us." The fact that they were salvaged is my point. It contradicts your statement entirely. And Darwinism you may not agree with, but it is taught in every institution, so either thousands of scholars must be complete idiots and and we are all wrong or vice versa.
Freeurmindom 2 years ago
"Darwinism" is a label that some people (like young-earth-creationists, for example) call the extremely well-supported theory of evolution/natural selection. Darwin was not the first to suggest that species change over time and in response to their environment. The suffix "ism" give the implication of a belief system, which the theory of evolution is not. It's a series of postulates that have been documented by the fossil record.
That's why some people don't like the word "Darwinism".
CatCommunication 2 years ago
Now on to Noah's ark and why it's totally irrelevant to what I'm saying:
From a critical POV, I'd argue that the ark is more of a plot device to demonstrate a great undertaking in the name of faith. Yes, he spares 7 pairs of each "clean" species and 1 pair of each "unclean" species, but he kills the rest. Noah's Ark is definitely NOT a story about how "God", who demands animal sacrifices up to and beyond this point in the bible, loves animals so much.
CatCommunication 2 years ago
The animal sacrifice thing brings up a good point, now that I think of it.
God never allows asks to make a human sacrifice, only animals. It's true that he asks Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, but God doesn't allow Abraham to go through with it.
This seems like good evidence that God thinks animals are beneath people. That and the fact that in Gen 1:26 he says that man "rules/has dominion" (depending on which version you like) over every animal that swims walks or flies...
CatCommunication 2 years ago
So are you saying that animals are at an equal level as humans? Or is that your belief? Just trying to figure out where you are coming from.
Freeurmindom 2 years ago
I believe that there is no hierarchy of which life form is more "important" in an objective sense -- that is a human construct. In Western culture, it's most often supported by a mandate from the Abrahamic god, as though it came from an external source. eg: "God gave us animals to eat"
I believe that once it is realized that such a mandate is purely a fabrication, as the aforementioned god is a fabrication, the hierarchy must be re-examined.
CatCommunication 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
But veggies are living...and you eat these?
Freeurmindom 2 years ago
Given that animals feel experience pain, emotions & self-awareness whereas plants do not, I feel the most ethical choice to eat the one that is not self-aware. One screams out & writhes in agony when you cut it, the other does not.
As a critically thinking person, yes, I realize there's possibility (however remote) that plants sense pain on a level that we're currently unable to measure. But, to me, a choice between what I KNOW to be so & what may (or may not) be so is really no choice at all.
CatCommunication 2 years ago 3
My conclusion, upon that re-examination of the hierarchy, is that all creatures have a survival instinct and do not wish to die. As such, I believe that constitutes a "right to life" that is irrespective of species.
That being said, however, if I found myself in a burning building with my husband and a mouse, I'm sure I'd save my husband.
That doesn't give CAFOs the right to torture conscious living beings though.
CatCommunication 2 years ago 2
Wow, negative rating on inquiry? I can see there are some closed minds here.
Freeurmindom 2 years ago
Wow, I love how I am rated negative so much considering.. lol
Speaking of "ignorance" and veganism, what about the vitamin B12 which is crucial to blood development? How does a vegan supplement this? I am simply trying to figure this out considering I've changed my diet. (And no not completely vegan).
Freeurmindom 2 years ago
PART ONE:
OK. I had this discussion recently with a fellow vegan. The 'sensible' approach is to ensure that you eat/drink products that are fortified with vitamin B12 or take a vitamin supplement with B12.
Some people may say, "Ah ah! This PROVES that veganism isn't natural." Well, not really. Most products with added vitamins and minerals are for the GENERAL POPULATION and some are not even suitable for vegans.
marcluc1988 2 years ago
PART TWO:
Many animals destined to become meat have certain supplements added to their feed. E.g. iodine so that the meat has a higher content. This is obviously not for vegans/vegetarians. Without the added iodine, apparently, most of the population would be lacking.
So the whole argument about 'Veganism is not natural because they need to take supplements.' is a fallacy.
Pretty much everyone is knowingly or unknowingly take 'supplements'.
It's for the health of the population as a whole.
marcluc1988 2 years ago
Well, it could be that people are brought up ob the food pyramid. I know I live here in the States, and all health classes whether it be grade school, high school, or college, promote the food pyramid. It is taught early on that meat is essential for iron, amino acids, and of course protein. So it depends on where you are I guess as far as what is being taught. I am personally not a vegan. However, I don't judge people who are. I don't eat a lot of red meat b/c of the cancer/heart issue.
Freeurmindom 2 years ago
even if theyre not ignorant to what goes on to produce their food..... they are still ignorant with respect to speciesism.......
and if not that theyre just sick fucks
mikeythevegan 2 years ago 3
A lot of people are just ignorant and are also brought up not to think about it, but some people, possibly many, just don't care about anything other than satiating themselves and their own greed.
For the most part I try to avoid all animal products but I've recently moved back to Scotland and up here I'm the only vegetarian I know I tell people I'm veggie and I'm enough of an outcast for that let alone if I tell people I'm vegan.
GravityofReality 2 years ago 3
I understand what you mean. I'm not a vegan as I believe you know, BUT I do realize we are basically torturing animals for our dining pleasure.
I as well prefer to believe people are unaware of the facts rather than that alternative. I deal with my meat eating by trying not to think about it, or rationalizing (I can't afford to go vegan, or it's to much work, or that I'm addicted to meat like I am to cigarettes)
TheNakedAtheist 2 years ago 2