A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, children that are beaten, some raped and even murdered, God preordained this before their birth is what a true Predestined Elected Calvinist believes, but will not admit it. examples are JonBenét Ramsey, Dennis Rader and John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who molested and killed 33 teenage boys. Since we live in the New Testament now, thus sins are not passed down through parents, what possible answer is valid from a Calvinist? None
A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer clearly
1. Calvinists believe in the doctrine of election, and it is true and scriptural. Actually God predestinated all His children to be saved and be with Him. So who are those who will not be saved? They are not the children of God. Example of them were Cain, Judas, pharao, Ananias and Saphira. Example of the children of God who we know were saved even before they were born were Jacob, Moses, and the prophets.
2. The bible refers the children of God as sheep, and goats are not His children. Sometimes they are refered as the wheat and the tare. In the parable of the wheat and tare, notice that even before they were planted they were already of different seeds. The wheat was the seed of God and was planted by Jesus, the tares were the seed of the devil and was planted by the devil. Jesus once said that He came but for the lost sheep of Israel. Before they were saved Jesus called them sheep already.
3. So from both Adam and Eve who were both children of God, How did these goats came into being?
It also started in the book of Genesis in the garden of Eden. The actual sin of Adam and Eve was not eating an apple or literal fruit of the tree. It was only an allegory. The actual sin was adultery. Before Adam knew his wife Eve she was seduced by the devil who entered the serpent. After Eve committed adultery she went back to Adam and Adam knew her. She bore a twin.
4. Cain was the child of the serpent, and Abel the child of Adam the child of God. The serpent was not a snake but it became a snake after God cursed him. In the law of reproduction the bible said that everything reproduce according to its kind. Jesus once said, "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. But look how evil Cain was, he even withstood God to the face. Adam and Eve were both good, children of God created to His likeness.
5. When Eve bore Seth, she said , God appointed me ANOTHER seed INSTEAD of Abel. She knew that Cain was not the seed of God nor seed of Adam.
In the bible there are two genealogies. One of Adam and one of Cain. After thousands of years of mixed marriages
no one can determine who are the descendants of Adam nor of Cain but God only. Jesus was not lying nor making presumptous statement when He told some of the Pharisees, "You are of your father the devil.
6. In John 3:12 the apostle John called Cain of the wicked one. "wicked one" means the devil.
The descendants of Adam and Eve who were created in the likeness of God are sheeps, elected, predestinated, while the descendants of Cain like Judas, pharao, Ananias and Saphira were goats and cannot be saved.
7. When I was a new believer I thought that everyone will be saved if there is someone who will testify to Him of the gospel and will lead him to Christ without giving up. But I noticed that there are some extremely evil person who will even mock the gospel. There are serial killers who doesn't show even a slight of guilt. How can these people believe and repent? No wonder Jesus said to the rich man, "Even a dead person will rise from the grave and testify yet they will not believe.
8. When a wax and clay, both exposed to the same heat, the wax will melt, while the clay will hardened. Why ? Because it is their characterestics.
When a sheep and a goat both hear the same gospel, the sheep's heart will melt and he will fall down to his knee and will ask forgiveness from God. The goat will harden his heart and mock God. Why? Because it is their characteristics. Election and Predestination is biblical. I am not a calvinist, I don't believe in trinity and tithing.
@jundurias I see your logic in making these false claims about Cain, Abel, Eve, and the serpent. But to be a son of someone meant that you were doing the will of the father and that's what Cain did and the Pharisees. The serpent did not go into Eve. You cannot trace Cain back to God because he was conceived without God's permission. He was a bastard. The Scriptures support this.
@TheBmjone1," But to be a son of someone meant that you were doing the will of the father and that's what Cain did and the Pharisees"--- That's right because the devil was their father. Adam comitted sin, David comitted adultery and murder, Samson disobeyed God, and many more characters in the bible who comitted sin several times but they were not called sons of the devil because they are not.
"He was a bastard."--- That's what I'm saying, Cain was the son of the serpent.
A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, children that are beaten, some raped and even murdered, God preordained this before their birth is what a true Predestined Elected Calvinist believes, but will not admit it. examples are JonBenét Ramsey, Dennis Rader and John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who molested and killed 33 teenage boys. Since we live in the New Testament now, thus sins are not passed down through parents, what possible answer is valid from a Calvinist? None
@tgillspy1 Yeah I'm wrong if you believe in the "other" Jesus. But the God I serve does what He pleases and everything is according to His good pleasure. You nor I have a "choice" with God.
You need to be quite proud of yourself to think that the salvation of the LORD depends on the feeble human will. If God hates a proud look, how much more those who preach the pride of human free-willism.
The only one that has free will is Jehovah God. Man does not. Pastor you are doing exactly what God wants you to whether you like it or not. He has arranged everything!
@TheBmjone1 , Free will means whosoever will. I'ts your choice. Like you choose to marry a certain girl or you choose to finish your study.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
@jundurias No one in this world has a choice. The only thing mankind was born with is self-will and that's what God gave them. "Whosoever will" is not in the text ---read it in the Greek. IT IS NOT THERE. Define all the words in John 3:16 in the Greek Textus Receptus. You will do whatever God wants you to that means causing you to rebel, repent, rejoice, whatever. In doing so, God will make His power known.
@TheBmjone1, "No one in this world has a choice."---Wow, what a declaration. Even a small boy has a choice. There are lots of verses in the bible that God was giving man a choice. I will give only one example. Deut 28:2 "And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, IF THOU SHALT HEARKEN unto the voice of the LORD thy God."
@jundurias What Bible are you reading? You can't believe in Predestination, which is the word "pro 'orizo" which means to pre-bound. This is what God did before the foundations of the world. What does a small boy have to do with it?
"Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" John 1:13
"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." John 1:18
@TheBmjone1. ," What Bible are you reading?"--- 1.Please argue properly. I'VE GIVEN YOU SEVERAL VERSES IN THE BIBLE AND YOU WILL ASK ME WHAT BIBLE I'M READING? Check it first in your bible and if it is not there, then that's the time you have to ask me that. 2. Prove to me first that my understanding of scripture is wrong or the scripture is wrong before criticizing me.
@jundurias Again, you still don't answer. What Bible are you reading? Is it the Greek Interlinear or just an English Bible because that will explain a lot. You can repost my questions but answer accordingly. If you're reading a KJV and nothing else, then you will interpret those words from a 21st century culture. These words in the original language were written in the 1st century. So study them from that perspective. I won't prove to you anything, it is God who removes the cover from your eyes
1 -- No matter what bible you read if God will not open your eyes you will never understand. You have to read the bible spiritually not fanatically. You trust too much in the doctrine of Calvin which is wrong. I read not only KJV but also modern translation and they speak of the same thing about predestination.
We both believe in predestination. But we differ in some way: (...)
@jundurias No it's the Word that I trust, not Calvanism. I repeat. THE ENGLISH BIBLES ARE INCORRECT AND YOU NEED A GREEK TRANSLATION TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE NEW TESTAMENT. "The hearing ear and the seeing eye the LORD hath made even both of them" Pro. 20:12 In this verse where it says the Lord, insert your name because this is an illustration of man's free will. It casts God down which is what Eve did in the garden of Eden. If it is God who open eyes, then what does this have to do with you
1. You believe that God will just pick up at random and decide which one He will predestine and which one He will not. My view is that God predestined all His children but not the devil's children. Study very well the parable of the " Wheat and the Tare."
I have proven to you that the devil have children but you ignore it. You said that to be the children of the devil means that they are doing what the devil wants like Cain, Judas, etc.
@jundurias Then you don't believe in God's Word if you make up your own definition of Predestination. Define the word. Yes, God's Elect will come to Him. (John 6:37). Predestination is the word "pro'orizo" which means to pre-bound, pre-determine, pre-horizon. Yes, the devil has children but they aren't his children by their choice.
"Hath not the potter power over the clay of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour?" He made vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy.
(...) But I have shown you that there are persons in the bible that were committing sins repeatedly but they were never called children of the devil. Jacob was a deceiver. He deceived his brother Esau, he deceived his father Isaac, and his uncle Laban. He even bribed God for the favor he was asking. But he was never called the son of the devil. But Cain, Judas, and some Pharisees were called sons of the devil. But you ignore this.
2. You never believe that man has free will. You contradict the whole bible from Genesis to Revelation. It is because you are brainwashed by the doctrine of Calvin. I believe that man has free will. Yet the children of God will always choose to believe God, and the children of the devil will always choose to believe the will of their father.
3. I believe that predestination is only relative to God, while free will is relative to man.
(...) Man always choose what to do (even a small boy has a choice ), but God knows already everything what they will choose. He predestined all His children to be saved, and not one will be lost. ( Wheat and Tare ).
4. All that are predestined are the children of God which all descended from Adam because Adam is the son of God. All that are not predestined are the children of the devil which descended from Cain, the son of the devil (serpent ). (...)
(...) Do you think that eating an apple will make give you the knowledge of good and evil? Do you think that Adam and Eve covered their genitals because of shame that they ate the fruit? Be reasonable.
@jundurias This is not my argument. If God's Word says they disobeyed God by eating this fruit, then I believe it. I know God caused them to partake of this fruit. I don't think God would put two human beings in immortal, sinful, filthy body and expect them not to partake of this fruit. This is their very nature. He knew they would. God opened their eyes and they knew what evil was in the sight of God. It's the only way we understand what God commands of us,
@TheBmjone1 He establishes the law, we know it and break it, and He scourges us and disciples us to accomplish His purpose in the believer's life, which is to conform us to the image of Christ. (Rom. 8:29)
@TheBmjone1, It is true that they disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit, but this is only an allegory. The bible contains some allegory. Those two trees in the midst of Eden were not ordinary trees. They were symbolic of two conflicting characters. The life giver and the life destroyer. The tree of life is Jesus. He is the only one that gives life. The tree with the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is satan. It was the tree of death. Adam and Eve died spritually.
Jesus once said that a corrupt tree will never bear good fruit and a good tree will never bear a corrupt fruit. Adam and Eve are good trees, they were created in the image of God. And they were called son of God. Cain was a corrupt tree. He was the seed of the serpent ( devil ). All his children are corrupt like him.
In the Bible it s said that everything will reproduce according to its kind. All the children of Adam are like Adam, the son of God.
@TheBmjone1, 1. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." --- I'm amazed that you don't know this verse. So this explains why you stick to only one argument.
Romans 3:11 and Psalm 14:3 Speaks of mankind after the fall. Both the Wheat and the Tare have sinned and fall short to the glory of God. But in the core of the wheat there is still the image of God but not in the tare.
@Theophillous You tell me my argument because I had no idea you were in it. Since thats the only verse you've read, tell me what you think it means. Does it mean God made sinless creations? Or little gods? What does it mean to have an image of God? Without sin? Surely that can't be your argument..
@TheBmjone1, Sorry, I accidentally used my son's account because this computer is not working properly. It's still me jundurias. Adam and Eve were sinless before the fall. To have the image of God means that Adam have some characteristics similar to God. God is Spirit, we were created spiritual. God is good we were created basically good before the fall. God is love, we have love. God is compassionate, we are compassionate. Of course in a lesser degree. This s not true with the Tare.
@TheBmjone1, 2. Jesus said, "I come but for the lost sheep of Israel." Here it is very clear that even they were sinners Jesus called them sheep. Because they are sheep and not goat even before they were born. They are lost sheep but nevertheless sheep. They were born sinners like David but they are sheep.
In Psalm 51:5 David was aware that during his mother conception of him his parents were in the state of sin because redemption has not come yet.
@Theophillous Still what are you alluding to? It seems you kinda want to say that mankind is not as depraved, wicked, evil as the Word says they are. So the Word of God is wrong concerning mankind?
@TheBmjone1, Yes that's true. Adam was not sinner before the fall. I have told you already that wickedness comes only after the fall. Adam committed sin but he is never wicked as you think. He is the son of God created in His image.
2. "What does a small boy have to do with it?" --- Please be reasonable. You said that we have no choice. So I'm showing you that even a small boy has a choice and also gave you a verse to prove that God is giving us choice. But you only answered, "What bible are you reading?" In this way we cannot learn from one another.
@TheBmjone1 3. John 1:12-13 BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them THAT BELIEVE on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Verse 12 shows that some received and some did not, Some believed and some did not according to their choice. Verse 13 shows that they were born by the will of God.
@jundurias So I ask, by who's will are we born God's or our own? Did you give birth to your own self? Before the sperm met the egg did you ask your parents will you accept me as your child? No. By this manner are we born into God's family. He births whom He wills. He atoned for His wife, not the entire human race. John 3:16 "world" does not mean globe, humanity, all people. The word there is "kosmon" which is an orderly arrangement, which God did before the foundations of the world.
@TheBmjone1 4. This is what I am saying, All the children of God will believe, and all the children of the devil will not, because that is their nature. The children of God have the nature of their Father and they believe. The children of the devil have the nature of their father and they do not believe.
@TheBmjone1 5. Predestination is relative to God, while free will is relative to us. We make our choice but God knows already what we will choose. God predestined all His children to be saved. All the children of God have sinned and died spiritually, but they can be regenerated because they are the seeds of God ( the wheat ). All the children of the devil have sinned but they cannot be regenerated because they are of different seed, they are not the seed of God but of the devil ( the tare ).
This is why I don't know if you understand the definition. Predestination excludes free will. There is no such thing as having both. In fact, here is what God says about your choice or free will. "And there is none that calleth upon thy name that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee for thou hast hid thy face from us and hast consumed us because of our iniquities" Isa 64:7
God's Word says there is NONE that can stirreth up (uwr-wake oneself up) . How can a man dead in his sins wake himself?
14But every man is tempted, when he is DRAWN AWAY OF HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
@TheBmjone1 7. (Cont of James 1:14-18) 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
These verses show again that relative to us we have choice but relative to God He begat us of His own will.
@jundurias In Deuteronomy God is giving commands and causing Israel to do these things. It is God's Sovereignty that He does this and again IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A MAN'S WILL. You say that it's according to God's election however I can choose. MAN'S WILL IS IN OPPOSITION TO GOD'S WILL and ONE has to die and trust it won't be the Living God. In fact, you think you can tell the Living God what you will do with your life?? No!
@TheBmjone1 , Those who are saved are those who choose to believe, receive and obey God.
John 1:12 But as many as RECEIVED him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name.
Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live
@tgillspy1 So if man has FREE WILL in salvation can he get saved whenever he wants?For man to be as free as you say he is then he can ask God to save him when ever he feels like it,but is this how it is according to scripture?
@tgillspy1 "Do you believe john calvin had a right to do what he did ."
Calvin WAS A WITNESS IN A CAPITAL CASE.J.C. didn't kill anyone,he didn't have the power to,he just TESTIFIED AGAINST SERVATUS who had already received the death penalty on another charge and had escaped and came to Geneva,in fact,Servatus tried to have Calvin executed before all this.Did you not know this?You Arminians repeat lie after lie,don't you know lying is a sin?
@tgillspy1 Do you even know what the reformation was about?Most all the Protestants were CALVINISTIC then,that's what it meant to be a protestant,they believed in REFORMED THEOLOGY,it was the demonic Roman Catholics who were the Arminians.The Roman Catholic Jesuits infiltrated the Protestant church and brought in the Arminian heresy,so it's you who have been deceived,you're a Roman Catholic,only without all the bells and whistles.Arminianism has only been in Protestant America for 200 yrs..
@tgillspy1 Do you actually think that God is trying but failing to save people that He already chose to pass over before time began?You misunderstand scriptures such as 2 Peter 3:9 and 2 Timothy 2:4,all men ,world all have different meanings according to context.Get a strongs concordance and see for yourself,it will specifically tell you that ALL seldom means everyone without distinction.Also all the translators of the KJV were Calvinist lol,so is the KJV corrupted now?
Of course He did,but don't forget Adam did exactly what he desired to do,even as you believe,God knew man would fall before He created Him right? That's why Jesus dying on the cross was planned long before sin happened.There is nothing that happens that God is not behind,all things are following His eternal plan.God knew who He would save and who He wouldn't before creating man,so He has created men for Hell,it's as simple as that,unless you believe that God is ignorant,do you believe He is?
@tgillspy1 My friend,you are an ignorant person who doesn't understand scripture.Man does not have free will when it comes to salvation.You claim that God is a liar and that scripture contradicts itself when you claim man thwarts God's decree,man does not and can not thwart any of God's plans,so it is you who are peddling false doctrine.
@tgillspy1 God knows all things,He's always known all things.He knew both who would be saved and who would be lost before creation,therefore He knew those who would have no hope before He ever created them,so if God wants no one in Hell,why did He create people that He knew would be in Hell? Couldn't God just not create them?
if you were to say that what kind of a God would choose like that, continue reading the whole chapter. I cannot speak with more authority than the Bible.
@fractalfires even with what you said, God still chooses, i haven't read into Malachi, but yes God did sovereignly chose the Gentiles as well due to Israel's unbelief. in Romans 9, Paul writes that God chose Jacob or Esau (or substitute it with any other name, point is the same):
" though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls..." (ESV)
@abreathinGIFT It doesn't say God chose Jacob or Esau. It says He hated Esau before they were born.
" For the children being not yet born neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand not of works but of him that calleth" Romans 9:11. It is God's will NOT OURS!
@tgillspy1 What part of Mark are you referring to? All are called to repentance by the Gospel,but only the elect can hear it,that's why we are to preach the gospel to all men because WE don't know who the Elect are,even Jesus told His disciples that He has hiding the gospel from many so they WILL NOT believe,they are to have ears but Not Hear and Eyes but not see,Jesus only revealed Father to whom He has chosen to reveal Him to.Did you read what I sent you?
@tgillspy1 Sorry,but you're wrong.To believe what you believe means that you believe you have salvation because of something you did, instead of believing that God saved you by His Grace alone,through a God given faith.You think man can muster up his own faith and then trade it to God for His salvation.
@tgillspy1 Calvin didn't insert the reformed belief into the Bible,he showed how all the Bible fits together in harmony,Arminianism is illogical and just plain inconsistent and wrong.
@tgillspy1 "Calvin was a treacherous murderer" This is a lie perpetrated by those that hated him and could not Biblically defeat his doctrine and the lie was been carried to this day by folks like you.
One of your favorite ploys is when we give your Scriptural proof instead of refuting it with sound exegesis you say "well, Calvin was a murder so your wrong", my answer is , Calvin was not a murder, and what does that have to do with the Scripture quoted? Answer: NOTHING!
@tgillspy1 "Stop attributing to God what is evil and obviously and evidently great heresy...."
Stop teaching that man can thwart God's will when scripture declares this to be impossible,stop telling people that Jesus is a failure who's trying but failing to save everyone,Jesus came to save His people,meaning,people from every tribe tongue and nation of the whole world and Not just Jews only.If Jesus died for everyone head for head, then no one would be in Hell.
So far the Bible has proven that you are the deceived one,not me.Study the Bible,study,study,study.You need discipleship in the worst way,so pray for wisdom and understanding,pray that God will cause you to believe and understand His word..
@tgillspy1 God is behind everything that happens both Good and Evil. Is 47:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?Jer 32:42 For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.
Your problem is,is you don't believe God,you have created a god more to your liking.
@tgillspy1 Adam and Eve were made perfect,but they were also made mutable,just like Satan,meaning they would fail to continue to be perfect.God is immutable and made a plan before time and now all people are fulfilling that plan.Now,do you still believe Adam thwarted God's plan or do you believe that the Bible contradicts it'self?
@tgills " i suppose you think i am accountable for adam choice to sin..."
The Bible is very clear on this,Adam's sin brought DEATH to the whole human race,this is the reasons why babies die,but Jesus brought life to many of these same cursed people.We all sin because we are born sinners,this includes the sheep who Jesus died for and the goats who He didn't die for.Those who follow the beast will do so because their names were not written in the Lamb's B.O.L. before time.Rev.13:8 & Rev 17:8
@tgillspy1 You seem to ignore the fact that God says no one can thwart His will,and since this is true,we must then conclude that Adam eating from the tree of good and evil was God's plan from the beginning.God is never surprised by anything,all things happen according to His eternal decree.There will not be one person in Hell that Jesus died for,since Jesus only died for HIS PEOPLE,so if you try to say we are all God's children,that would mean ,some of God's children will end up in Hell.
@tgillspy1 the bonehead figures God's plan A was for people NOT to keep his laws.
Any other view according to him is a low view of the cross. A father duct tapes his two kids and pushes them in the water. His intention is only to kill one of them. He gives them both a fake command to SWIM or else he will drown them as punishment. He lets the girl drown and blames her for not obeying to glorify his 'justice', but saves the boy to create a 'high view' of his (snicker)..."mercy". (choke)
@fractalfires Is every thought including the WICKED thoughts of every person that has ever lived in God's mind or not? If yes, is God sinful? If those thoughts were in my mind I would be sinful!
@tgillspy1 Sorry that you have such a low view of the cross that you relegate it to some plan B. The reason The Son/Word spoke everything into existence is for the glory of the cross. Do you not realize that the redeemed will share a much greater glory with Christ that would never have been possible if Adam had not of sinned?
@tgillspy1 Without the fall how was there ever going to be a cross? Do you really think God would leave such an important decision in the hands of Adam and take a chance that Adam would not fall and rob His Son of His crowning Glory obtained only in the cross?
@abreathinGIFT the quote is actually from Malachi 1:2 that Paul was citing. Read it and see if God's prophecy was speaking about the actual characters named Jacob and Esau or not. In verse 4 we see it is not the individual named Esau, because the name is substituted with EDOM.
Edom is the same word from which we get Adam, meaning red soil. The Jews and the Early Church understood Esau or Edom or Adam to be the rest of mankind, ie, the GENTILES.
@fractalfires Is every thought including the WICKED thoughts of every person that has ever lived in God's mind or not? If yes, is God sinful? If those thoughts were in my mind I would be sinful!
Rom 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. neither having done any good or evil, neither having done any good or evil, neither having done any good or evil, neither having done any good or evil, neither having done any good or evil, NEITHER HAVING DONE ANY GOOD OR EVIL!
Calvinism is sick & twisted to suggest God would actually choose to create people and punish them in Hell for all of eternity. He tells us to love our enemies. Would He turn around and torture His forever?
@tgillspy1 "Many people have the wisdom understanding and discernment "not" to serve the "God" of calvinism."
The God of the Bible is the God that reformed people worship,both wisdom and discernment play a part ,but unless God Gives one The NEW BIRTH FIRST,they will never believe,SINCE THE SPIRIT must be present in the person first for him to discern salvation which is a spiritual matter.God regenerates us,Quickens us to life from our DEAD STATE,just like Jesus calling Lazarus to life.
@tgillspy1 Why don't you get a Strong's concordance and see what context Kosmos is being used in ,in that verse?Some times whole world means whole world of believers,sometimes,w.w. means all Gentiles or unbelievers,sometime it means GENTILES AND Jews ect.The Pharisees said the WHOLE WORLD has gone out after Jesus,was the whole world following Him?What about the love of money being the root of ALL EVIL?Did Adam ,Eve and Satan sin because of their love of money?.No,all kinds of evil or people.
@tgillspy1 Open theism's denial that God knows the future, is the logical evolution of the Arminian denial that God foreordains the future.Open Theism is Hyper -Arminianism,in all it's God dishonoring glory.A or C,it makes no difference,if you believe God knows all things,then He knew who wouldn't be in Heaven even before He created them. So,are you an OPEN THEIST? Or just a run of the mill Arminian?I think you may be an Open theist,am I right?
@tgillspy1 IS 63:17 "O LORD, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not?"....Who hardens whose heart?who saves men? who has planned the future and calls it to be and it is?who has decreed all things that come to pass?can anyone thwart God's will?does Jesus ever try and fail to save people,are any of God's children in Hell?Does God know all things?Could He stop ALL SIN if He chose to?can God learn?
@tgillspy1 " Reformed religion is not christianity, it never has been christianity ,and it never will be christianity", as he smiles self assured.
The Bible is where we gather our doctrine from,we don't impose our doctrines on the Bible and the reformed belief most certainly is found and gleaned from the scriptures.
@tgillspy1 Is this Sanderson nut your preacher?I'd love to either debate myself or see some other reformed person debate this topic,C vs non-Calvinists,with him in front of a live crowd of believers,using THE BIBLE ALONE! This way he can't dodge any questions ,like all Arminians do.
Yes,it only can be understood by believers in the Lord Jesus,the natural man can't understand Salvation ,that's only reserved for God's elect believers."1cor 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."
See!God must put His Spirit in a man before he believes in Christ, that's why IT'S SAVED BY GRACE THU FAITH 100%
@tgillspy1 "So you say that you are a christian who rejects 1 John 2 KJV... ?"
No,but I see that you reject the God of the Bible,you are an ATHEIST ,when it comes to you believing in God,all you've done is make a god more to your own liking,just like this looney preacher has done.
@tgillspy1 People only have free will in terms of their natural inclination, which is sin. Think this over and I think you will see that for the most part, we are only capable of being wretched. Godliness and goodnes only comes from God, apart from which we can do nothing but sin. That's what scripture says.
@SkiesVibrant Amen,our sinful nature causes us to eat,drink and sleep sinning,in fact,God must constantly hold men back from sinning all they want or we'd all be dead by now.
@CBALLEN Yes... but I have to say, it took me a long time to understand this distinction and God had to do a work with my heart before I would accept it. But once I truly opened my mind to the Doctrines of Grace, all else wasn't more complicated, the hard parts of some doctrines all fell into place. It was a glorious time for me. You know what's truly funny? If it hadn't of been for Sanderson making a fool of himself, I'd have never stumbled upon Dr. White. God does have a sense of humor.
@SkiesVibrant Amen the Lord truly does work all things out for good for those who love God and are the called out ones according to HIS purpose,so yes,it was actually God who opened your mind to the Doctrines of Grace,the same as He does all believers.This person here has his mind shut by God's design,however we should defend the faith because others will see these posts and God may use them to make them want to find the truth,the same way He caused you and I to find Dr. White.Isn't God GOOD?
@CBALLEN Amen... He is soooo good. Sanderson would have a fit if he knew he only helped me to take the first step across the Arminian bridge into light. Yep... our God knows how to use even evil for good. My Christian walk did a 180 when I no longer had to fear reading Romans 8 and 9. Did you see the parody that 1689 Baptist did on Sanderson's Calvinist rant? HIlarious, yet so true. I subbed and send a friends invite to you. God Bless. It's good to have another Reformed friend.
@SkiesVibrant he,he,I just sent an invite to you too Brother! And you are so right,every sin man can conceive and achieve,has always been for Good and to God's glory in the end.Man plans his way,but God determines his steps,Prov.16:9,like so many proverbs,God makes it crystal clear that God determines what ALL MEN will do,HE'S playing with a stacked hand and loaded dice,everything is going according to God's plan,no matter how free man thinks he is.
@SkiesVibr If the Holy Spirit is in a person then He leads them into all truth,and I don't believe that anyone who has truly been saved and had the doctrines of Grace presented to them,can refuse believing in them until their death.Now I know they're ignorant folks like us who didn't believe or understand them at first,simply because we were never taught them or exposed to them through much of our 'SAVED LIFE",but God will cause one to believe them if He's saved them, cuz Arminianism is false
Just think about poor ole Saul,who became Paul.He was just minding his own business,headed to Damascus to imprison and execute Christians,and the Out OF THE BLUE,Jesus knocks him from his horse,introduces Himself and begins to tell Paul how the rest of his life will be,He didn't ASK him what he thought about it either,Jesus just turned him into the thing Paul hated the most,A CHRISTIAN! How's that for irony?LOL
@SkiesVibrant Oh,God Bless you Sister.Yep,Christ knocked Saul off of the horse and then after Jesus' introduction Jesus just goes right into telling Paul what he was going to be doing for the rest of his life,even how he would suffer for Jesus' sake,all this happened,with Jesus asking only one question ,if I remember correctly,"Why are you persecuting me".Jesus not only changed Saul's NAME WITHOUT PERMISSION,BUT He saved him without his permission too.
@tgillspy1 Repent ye and believe the gospel. Read also Galatians 1 KJV It is ver clear. Calvinism is " another gospel " once again SMARTEN UP.
How does Galatians prove Calvinism wrong?Arminianism is another gospel,it's man centered it claims man is the captain of his ship and man decides what's going to take place and not God.
@tgillspy1 It seems you just keep making assertions without proof,prove me wrong with scripture and maybe you won't look as silly as you do now. Exeget Acts 13:48 if you think I'm wrong,I bet you can't.
@tgillspy1 I'm giving you scripture,so you have it backwards.God's ways are not man's ways.Just like WHEN Jesus walked on Earth,He did everything backwards of how men would do things.God has told us that He makes some pots for Mercy and some for destruction.He's made all things for their own purpose,even the wicked for the day of evil.
@tgillspy1 1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This is why one cannot believe unless God makes him born again first.
John 6:44No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
@CBALLEN 1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This is why one cannot believe unless God makes him born again first.
John 6:44No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
tgspy says," You got it backwards....."he smirks,"People have free will.." he protests...
@tgillspy1 You're just spouting more ignorance.You know,just having a ZEAL for God means nothing if you're believing in the wrong God,you might as well be a J.W.,Morman,Muslim,Buddhist ect..A natural unsaved man can only choose a false god for himself.God must cause ones NEW BIRTH before they can ever believe in Christ,Those who believe have been born of God.Jesus also told Nicodemus,"YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN" belief always follows the New Birth.
Rev 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
Notice,the people who were not written in the Book O.L before the creation of the world,will follow the beast.Do you think God is trying but failing to save these?
@tgillspy1 Look,I can see that you really don't have a clue about scripture,all you know is what some half wit Arminan preacher has told you the Bible says and you never check him out.Look at ACTS 13:48 for example,it says .....as many as were appointed to eternal life believed,it doesn't say "ALL who Believe were appointed to eternal life.Words and their order mean specific things,and all of scripture was superintended by the Holy Spirit.I'll help you if you're serious,but I don't think U are.
@tgillspy1 I and probably most people who are reformed now,used to believe the same way you do,but once you begin to really study what's being said and pray for wisdom,you won't see it.You will find that God is a whole lot more awesome than you once believed Him to be and that He controls absolutely everything down to the last molecule,so you really need to study and not just go around saying people are stupid or Calvinism is a lie,because that makes you look petty and unlearned.
@tgillspy1 2 Peter 3:9 is speaking of the coming of Jesus and how some are scoffing at it,so Peter is explaining to all the believers that God is being Patient WITH YOU OR US ,depending on the translation,so that none of YOU SHOULD PERISH,again speaking about the elect to be born in the future.Think,God knew exactly who won't be saved before time,so He' not waiting on any Goats to be saved,unless you think that God is senile and forgets things.
@tgillspy1 Do you ever pray for God to save the lost? If yes,why? Isn't God trying as hard as He can to save everyone already and failing in most cases?Do you believe your prayers make God more powerful or are you just trying to make Him feel worse than He already must feel?
I can pray for God to save people,because my God can actually save WHO EVER HE WANTS TO SAVE,your god can't,he must depend on his creatures to untie his hands by cooperating with him.
@tgillspy1 I'd like to ask you the same thing.I believe in the God of the Bible,the one who knows all things,the one WHO gave us His infoulable word,the God who has an eternal will that no man can thwart.What about you?
all seminaries SBTS sends out more missionaries athru the IMB than any other seminary. and evangelism...i havent heard any videos about him edifying any one or encouraging his congregation of 4 or any of the like...
this man is fatalistic and ignorant, he bashes calvinism and he cliams everyone else is wrong bashes everyone but no one knows who he is , he makes the world look at christians and say they are so hard and harsh who wants to be like that , he shows no love, alot of every other preacher is sending people to hell. he makes calvinists to be people who dont do missions and evangelism, not knowing that the southern baptist seminary is calvinist in some areas but not all her are calvinist but out of
Thats the great thing about a smaller church. The pastor is free to preach directly against a school of thought that is erroneous. My church is so big the pastors have to tread lightly around some topics like Calvinism. They don't even refer directly to the heresy of word of faith preachers. They make very general references.
No if you read your bible it says God gives them over to their lusts or will. There are two wills Gods and mans, mans self will isn't free it leeds to destruction and unless God births you, you won't have a will to go down the narrow path. Not my will but your will I think is a good way of looking at it. Also if you think God won't allow bad things to happen to people read the book of Job.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Some calvinists believe that Judas was predestinated to be the traitor - they read The Bible backwards...
They say: "Judas was never a real believer, the Bible says...KJV John 12:6 ..."
So, all unbelievers are traitors before Jesus Christ, right?
NOPE. They are wicked, disobedient, unbelieving, but are in the same situation of all, without exception, without the new birth in Christ Jesus. Nothing better or worse. Justice is to treat everyone in the same situation by the same values.
"And not only so; but Rebecca also having conceived by one, even by our father Isaac - for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, 'The elder shall serve the younger'. Even as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'"
It appears that it is the Calvinist God who is God and He will be the one judging you,do you think you'll argue with Him as you stand before His throne?I don't,all you'll do is bow your head,then your knee and confess Jesus as Lord.Look on the bright side,He still may humble you and save you,because some plant,some water,but God gives the increase,proving not all of God's people believe with just one hearing of the gospel.
Luke 14:33.We are to count the cost of following Christ and be willing to give up everything ,including our lives to follow Jesus.As you remember Peter and the others still owned their boats until they were called to preach,so yes we should willingly give up all we own to follow Christ if called to.There's nothing in this life that any Christian wouldn't give up if they believe.When He saves us would should seek Him first in everything and He will take care of everything else and He does.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones Romans 8:9 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
At this time this is where you are,you can't understand the gospel,nor can you obey God's command to repent and believe,you're still hostile to the God of the Bible,you have chosen a god of your own understanding,one that is OK with what ever you decide to do.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones You know Rev 17:8 tells us that all whose name was not written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world will follow after the Beast and take His mark,these will make all kinds of excuses for doing it too,my baby was starving,I'd lose my house or material goods if I didn't ect.Of course we will know the real reason,because they never belonged to God.
@CBALLEN If they never belonged to god, the calvinist god PREDESTINED them never to belong to god. Furthermore, this has nothing whatsoever to do with what Christ says in Luke 14:33.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones You need to read all of Luke 14,it proves that an invitation alone will never fill Heaven,it will only be done when the servant compells(overcomes all resistence) them to come and those simply invited won't be welcome.In John 6:44 it couldn't be any clearer,only those who the Father draws(overcomes all resistance) will come and be saved,those not drawn can't be saved.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones What do you suppose Acts13:48 means? When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Notice when the Gentiles(who couldn't be saved before) heard this(that Jesus died for Gentiles too) they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.Notice again,not all the Gentiles were appointed to eternal life,just the ones appointed believed.
This is the sound of a man in love with his own voice. I've rarely seen such hermeneutical gymnastics from the pulpit.
collindwelch 3 days ago
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A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, children that are beaten, some raped and even murdered, God preordained this before their birth is what a true Predestined Elected Calvinist believes, but will not admit it. examples are JonBenét Ramsey, Dennis Rader and John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who molested and killed 33 teenage boys. Since we live in the New Testament now, thus sins are not passed down through parents, what possible answer is valid from a Calvinist? None
hemet92544 4 days ago
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A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer clearly
hemet92544 4 days ago
Jesus was only talking to the 11 in chapter 15
crazystuffsherman 1 month ago
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1. Calvinists believe in the doctrine of election, and it is true and scriptural. Actually God predestinated all His children to be saved and be with Him. So who are those who will not be saved? They are not the children of God. Example of them were Cain, Judas, pharao, Ananias and Saphira. Example of the children of God who we know were saved even before they were born were Jacob, Moses, and the prophets.
jundurias 1 month ago
2. The bible refers the children of God as sheep, and goats are not His children. Sometimes they are refered as the wheat and the tare. In the parable of the wheat and tare, notice that even before they were planted they were already of different seeds. The wheat was the seed of God and was planted by Jesus, the tares were the seed of the devil and was planted by the devil. Jesus once said that He came but for the lost sheep of Israel. Before they were saved Jesus called them sheep already.
jundurias 1 month ago
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3. So from both Adam and Eve who were both children of God, How did these goats came into being?
It also started in the book of Genesis in the garden of Eden. The actual sin of Adam and Eve was not eating an apple or literal fruit of the tree. It was only an allegory. The actual sin was adultery. Before Adam knew his wife Eve she was seduced by the devil who entered the serpent. After Eve committed adultery she went back to Adam and Adam knew her. She bore a twin.
jundurias 1 month ago
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4. Cain was the child of the serpent, and Abel the child of Adam the child of God. The serpent was not a snake but it became a snake after God cursed him. In the law of reproduction the bible said that everything reproduce according to its kind. Jesus once said, "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. But look how evil Cain was, he even withstood God to the face. Adam and Eve were both good, children of God created to His likeness.
jundurias 1 month ago
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5. When Eve bore Seth, she said , God appointed me ANOTHER seed INSTEAD of Abel. She knew that Cain was not the seed of God nor seed of Adam.
In the bible there are two genealogies. One of Adam and one of Cain. After thousands of years of mixed marriages
no one can determine who are the descendants of Adam nor of Cain but God only. Jesus was not lying nor making presumptous statement when He told some of the Pharisees, "You are of your father the devil.
jundurias 1 month ago
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6. In John 3:12 the apostle John called Cain of the wicked one. "wicked one" means the devil.
The descendants of Adam and Eve who were created in the likeness of God are sheeps, elected, predestinated, while the descendants of Cain like Judas, pharao, Ananias and Saphira were goats and cannot be saved.
jundurias 1 month ago
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7. When I was a new believer I thought that everyone will be saved if there is someone who will testify to Him of the gospel and will lead him to Christ without giving up. But I noticed that there are some extremely evil person who will even mock the gospel. There are serial killers who doesn't show even a slight of guilt. How can these people believe and repent? No wonder Jesus said to the rich man, "Even a dead person will rise from the grave and testify yet they will not believe.
jundurias 1 month ago
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8. When a wax and clay, both exposed to the same heat, the wax will melt, while the clay will hardened. Why ? Because it is their characterestics.
When a sheep and a goat both hear the same gospel, the sheep's heart will melt and he will fall down to his knee and will ask forgiveness from God. The goat will harden his heart and mock God. Why? Because it is their characteristics. Election and Predestination is biblical. I am not a calvinist, I don't believe in trinity and tithing.
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias I see your logic in making these false claims about Cain, Abel, Eve, and the serpent. But to be a son of someone meant that you were doing the will of the father and that's what Cain did and the Pharisees. The serpent did not go into Eve. You cannot trace Cain back to God because he was conceived without God's permission. He was a bastard. The Scriptures support this.
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1," But to be a son of someone meant that you were doing the will of the father and that's what Cain did and the Pharisees"--- That's right because the devil was their father. Adam comitted sin, David comitted adultery and murder, Samson disobeyed God, and many more characters in the bible who comitted sin several times but they were not called sons of the devil because they are not.
"He was a bastard."--- That's what I'm saying, Cain was the son of the serpent.
jundurias 1 month ago
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@jundurias
A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, children that are beaten, some raped and even murdered, God preordained this before their birth is what a true Predestined Elected Calvinist believes, but will not admit it. examples are JonBenét Ramsey, Dennis Rader and John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who molested and killed 33 teenage boys. Since we live in the New Testament now, thus sins are not passed down through parents, what possible answer is valid from a Calvinist? None
hemet92544 4 days ago
@tgillspy1 It's not about Calvinism it's about what the Scriptures say. I am not a Calvinist however I believe in Predestination.
TheBmjone1 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 Yeah I'm wrong if you believe in the "other" Jesus. But the God I serve does what He pleases and everything is according to His good pleasure. You nor I have a "choice" with God.
TheBmjone1 2 months ago
You need to be quite proud of yourself to think that the salvation of the LORD depends on the feeble human will. If God hates a proud look, how much more those who preach the pride of human free-willism.
ChiefLaughingChicken 2 months ago
The only one that has free will is Jehovah God. Man does not. Pastor you are doing exactly what God wants you to whether you like it or not. He has arranged everything!
TheBmjone1 2 months ago
@TheBmjone1 , Free will means whosoever will. I'ts your choice. Like you choose to marry a certain girl or you choose to finish your study.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Not forced, not dictated
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias No one in this world has a choice. The only thing mankind was born with is self-will and that's what God gave them. "Whosoever will" is not in the text ---read it in the Greek. IT IS NOT THERE. Define all the words in John 3:16 in the Greek Textus Receptus. You will do whatever God wants you to that means causing you to rebel, repent, rejoice, whatever. In doing so, God will make His power known.
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1, "No one in this world has a choice."---Wow, what a declaration. Even a small boy has a choice. There are lots of verses in the bible that God was giving man a choice. I will give only one example. Deut 28:2 "And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, IF THOU SHALT HEARKEN unto the voice of the LORD thy God."
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias What Bible are you reading? You can't believe in Predestination, which is the word "pro 'orizo" which means to pre-bound. This is what God did before the foundations of the world. What does a small boy have to do with it?
"Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" John 1:13
"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." John 1:18
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1. ," What Bible are you reading?"--- 1.Please argue properly. I'VE GIVEN YOU SEVERAL VERSES IN THE BIBLE AND YOU WILL ASK ME WHAT BIBLE I'M READING? Check it first in your bible and if it is not there, then that's the time you have to ask me that. 2. Prove to me first that my understanding of scripture is wrong or the scripture is wrong before criticizing me.
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias Again, you still don't answer. What Bible are you reading? Is it the Greek Interlinear or just an English Bible because that will explain a lot. You can repost my questions but answer accordingly. If you're reading a KJV and nothing else, then you will interpret those words from a 21st century culture. These words in the original language were written in the 1st century. So study them from that perspective. I won't prove to you anything, it is God who removes the cover from your eyes
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1 ,
1 -- No matter what bible you read if God will not open your eyes you will never understand. You have to read the bible spiritually not fanatically. You trust too much in the doctrine of Calvin which is wrong. I read not only KJV but also modern translation and they speak of the same thing about predestination.
We both believe in predestination. But we differ in some way: (...)
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias No it's the Word that I trust, not Calvanism. I repeat. THE ENGLISH BIBLES ARE INCORRECT AND YOU NEED A GREEK TRANSLATION TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE NEW TESTAMENT. "The hearing ear and the seeing eye the LORD hath made even both of them" Pro. 20:12 In this verse where it says the Lord, insert your name because this is an illustration of man's free will. It casts God down which is what Eve did in the garden of Eden. If it is God who open eyes, then what does this have to do with you
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1
2 --
1. You believe that God will just pick up at random and decide which one He will predestine and which one He will not. My view is that God predestined all His children but not the devil's children. Study very well the parable of the " Wheat and the Tare."
I have proven to you that the devil have children but you ignore it. You said that to be the children of the devil means that they are doing what the devil wants like Cain, Judas, etc.
(...)
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias Then you don't believe in God's Word if you make up your own definition of Predestination. Define the word. Yes, God's Elect will come to Him. (John 6:37). Predestination is the word "pro'orizo" which means to pre-bound, pre-determine, pre-horizon. Yes, the devil has children but they aren't his children by their choice.
"Hath not the potter power over the clay of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour?" He made vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy.
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1
3--
(...) But I have shown you that there are persons in the bible that were committing sins repeatedly but they were never called children of the devil. Jacob was a deceiver. He deceived his brother Esau, he deceived his father Isaac, and his uncle Laban. He even bribed God for the favor he was asking. But he was never called the son of the devil. But Cain, Judas, and some Pharisees were called sons of the devil. But you ignore this.
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1
4--
2. You never believe that man has free will. You contradict the whole bible from Genesis to Revelation. It is because you are brainwashed by the doctrine of Calvin. I believe that man has free will. Yet the children of God will always choose to believe God, and the children of the devil will always choose to believe the will of their father.
3. I believe that predestination is only relative to God, while free will is relative to man.
(...)
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1
5--
(...) Man always choose what to do (even a small boy has a choice ), but God knows already everything what they will choose. He predestined all His children to be saved, and not one will be lost. ( Wheat and Tare ).
4. All that are predestined are the children of God which all descended from Adam because Adam is the son of God. All that are not predestined are the children of the devil which descended from Cain, the son of the devil (serpent ). (...)
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1
6--
(...) Do you think that eating an apple will make give you the knowledge of good and evil? Do you think that Adam and Eve covered their genitals because of shame that they ate the fruit? Be reasonable.
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias This is not my argument. If God's Word says they disobeyed God by eating this fruit, then I believe it. I know God caused them to partake of this fruit. I don't think God would put two human beings in immortal, sinful, filthy body and expect them not to partake of this fruit. This is their very nature. He knew they would. God opened their eyes and they knew what evil was in the sight of God. It's the only way we understand what God commands of us,
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1 He establishes the law, we know it and break it, and He scourges us and disciples us to accomplish His purpose in the believer's life, which is to conform us to the image of Christ. (Rom. 8:29)
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1, It is true that they disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit, but this is only an allegory. The bible contains some allegory. Those two trees in the midst of Eden were not ordinary trees. They were symbolic of two conflicting characters. The life giver and the life destroyer. The tree of life is Jesus. He is the only one that gives life. The tree with the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is satan. It was the tree of death. Adam and Eve died spritually.
Theophillous 1 month ago
@Theophillous Please give factual biblical information and not some vain imagination. I won't even go here.
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1, Who else gives life but Jesus. Who else destroy life but the devil.
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1
7--
Jesus once said that a corrupt tree will never bear good fruit and a good tree will never bear a corrupt fruit. Adam and Eve are good trees, they were created in the image of God. And they were called son of God. Cain was a corrupt tree. He was the seed of the serpent ( devil ). All his children are corrupt like him.
In the Bible it s said that everything will reproduce according to its kind. All the children of Adam are like Adam, the son of God.
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias where does it say they were created in the image of God? I think this is where you are confused about the natural state of mankind.
THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; Rom 3:11 ( I guess that excludes the people you're talking about)
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one Ps 14:3 (except those you refer to)
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me Ps 51:5
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1, 1. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." --- I'm amazed that you don't know this verse. So this explains why you stick to only one argument.
Romans 3:11 and Psalm 14:3 Speaks of mankind after the fall. Both the Wheat and the Tare have sinned and fall short to the glory of God. But in the core of the wheat there is still the image of God but not in the tare.
Theophillous 1 month ago
@Theophillous You tell me my argument because I had no idea you were in it. Since thats the only verse you've read, tell me what you think it means. Does it mean God made sinless creations? Or little gods? What does it mean to have an image of God? Without sin? Surely that can't be your argument..
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1, Sorry, I accidentally used my son's account because this computer is not working properly. It's still me jundurias. Adam and Eve were sinless before the fall. To have the image of God means that Adam have some characteristics similar to God. God is Spirit, we were created spiritual. God is good we were created basically good before the fall. God is love, we have love. God is compassionate, we are compassionate. Of course in a lesser degree. This s not true with the Tare.
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1, 2. Jesus said, "I come but for the lost sheep of Israel." Here it is very clear that even they were sinners Jesus called them sheep. Because they are sheep and not goat even before they were born. They are lost sheep but nevertheless sheep. They were born sinners like David but they are sheep.
In Psalm 51:5 David was aware that during his mother conception of him his parents were in the state of sin because redemption has not come yet.
Theophillous 1 month ago
@Theophillous Still what are you alluding to? It seems you kinda want to say that mankind is not as depraved, wicked, evil as the Word says they are. So the Word of God is wrong concerning mankind?
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1, Yes that's true. Adam was not sinner before the fall. I have told you already that wickedness comes only after the fall. Adam committed sin but he is never wicked as you think. He is the son of God created in His image.
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1
2. "What does a small boy have to do with it?" --- Please be reasonable. You said that we have no choice. So I'm showing you that even a small boy has a choice and also gave you a verse to prove that God is giving us choice. But you only answered, "What bible are you reading?" In this way we cannot learn from one another.
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1 3. John 1:12-13 BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them THAT BELIEVE on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Verse 12 shows that some received and some did not, Some believed and some did not according to their choice. Verse 13 shows that they were born by the will of God.
This what I'm saying....cont.
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias So I ask, by who's will are we born God's or our own? Did you give birth to your own self? Before the sperm met the egg did you ask your parents will you accept me as your child? No. By this manner are we born into God's family. He births whom He wills. He atoned for His wife, not the entire human race. John 3:16 "world" does not mean globe, humanity, all people. The word there is "kosmon" which is an orderly arrangement, which God did before the foundations of the world.
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1 4. This is what I am saying, All the children of God will believe, and all the children of the devil will not, because that is their nature. The children of God have the nature of their Father and they believe. The children of the devil have the nature of their father and they do not believe.
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1 5. Predestination is relative to God, while free will is relative to us. We make our choice but God knows already what we will choose. God predestined all His children to be saved. All the children of God have sinned and died spiritually, but they can be regenerated because they are the seeds of God ( the wheat ). All the children of the devil have sinned but they cannot be regenerated because they are of different seed, they are not the seed of God but of the devil ( the tare ).
jundurias 1 month ago
This is why I don't know if you understand the definition. Predestination excludes free will. There is no such thing as having both. In fact, here is what God says about your choice or free will. "And there is none that calleth upon thy name that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee for thou hast hid thy face from us and hast consumed us because of our iniquities" Isa 64:7
God's Word says there is NONE that can stirreth up (uwr-wake oneself up) . How can a man dead in his sins wake himself?
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1 6. It should be James not John.
James 1:14-18 -
14But every man is tempted, when he is DRAWN AWAY OF HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
jundurias 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1 7. (Cont of James 1:14-18) 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
These verses show again that relative to us we have choice but relative to God He begat us of His own will.
jundurias 1 month ago
@jundurias You're copying a verse but again I don't think you understand. James 1:18 does not say OF MAN'S WILL we begat ourselves...
You keep using relative but tell me what the Word says about our nature. See Romans 3
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@jundurias In Deuteronomy God is giving commands and causing Israel to do these things. It is God's Sovereignty that He does this and again IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A MAN'S WILL. You say that it's according to God's election however I can choose. MAN'S WILL IS IN OPPOSITION TO GOD'S WILL and ONE has to die and trust it won't be the Living God. In fact, you think you can tell the Living God what you will do with your life?? No!
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@TheBmjone1 , Those who are saved are those who choose to believe, receive and obey God.
John 1:12 But as many as RECEIVED him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name.
Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live
jundurias 1 month ago
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@tgillspy1 Are you aware that the translators of the KJV were Calvinists?
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 Are you aware that the translators of the KJV were Calvinists?
CBALLEN 2 months ago 2
@tgillspy1 So if man has FREE WILL in salvation can he get saved whenever he wants?For man to be as free as you say he is then he can ask God to save him when ever he feels like it,but is this how it is according to scripture?
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 "Do you believe john calvin had a right to do what he did ."
Calvin WAS A WITNESS IN A CAPITAL CASE.J.C. didn't kill anyone,he didn't have the power to,he just TESTIFIED AGAINST SERVATUS who had already received the death penalty on another charge and had escaped and came to Geneva,in fact,Servatus tried to have Calvin executed before all this.Did you not know this?You Arminians repeat lie after lie,don't you know lying is a sin?
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 Do you even know what the reformation was about?Most all the Protestants were CALVINISTIC then,that's what it meant to be a protestant,they believed in REFORMED THEOLOGY,it was the demonic Roman Catholics who were the Arminians.The Roman Catholic Jesuits infiltrated the Protestant church and brought in the Arminian heresy,so it's you who have been deceived,you're a Roman Catholic,only without all the bells and whistles.Arminianism has only been in Protestant America for 200 yrs..
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 Do you actually think that God is trying but failing to save people that He already chose to pass over before time began?You misunderstand scriptures such as 2 Peter 3:9 and 2 Timothy 2:4,all men ,world all have different meanings according to context.Get a strongs concordance and see for yourself,it will specifically tell you that ALL seldom means everyone without distinction.Also all the translators of the KJV were Calvinist lol,so is the KJV corrupted now?
CBALLEN 2 months ago
Of course He did,but don't forget Adam did exactly what he desired to do,even as you believe,God knew man would fall before He created Him right? That's why Jesus dying on the cross was planned long before sin happened.There is nothing that happens that God is not behind,all things are following His eternal plan.God knew who He would save and who He wouldn't before creating man,so He has created men for Hell,it's as simple as that,unless you believe that God is ignorant,do you believe He is?
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 Yeah,just disregard scripture,it's you feelings that you need to believe,just follow your heart.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 Is 14:27 For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?
Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.
I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
Now,If you had the Spirit you could understand what these verses mean and you'd stop calling God a liar.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 My friend,you are an ignorant person who doesn't understand scripture.Man does not have free will when it comes to salvation.You claim that God is a liar and that scripture contradicts itself when you claim man thwarts God's decree,man does not and can not thwart any of God's plans,so it is you who are peddling false doctrine.
CBALLEN 2 months ago
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@tgillspy1 "Adam thwarted for himself the blessing of walking with God and ruling as God set him to do...."
So you're saying God is a liar and the Bible contradicts itself,that's par for the course for Arminians..
CBALLEN 2 months ago
@tgillspy1 God knows all things,He's always known all things.He knew both who would be saved and who would be lost before creation,therefore He knew those who would have no hope before He ever created them,so if God wants no one in Hell,why did He create people that He knew would be in Hell? Couldn't God just not create them?
CBALLEN 2 months ago
if you were to say that what kind of a God would choose like that, continue reading the whole chapter. I cannot speak with more authority than the Bible.
abreathinGIFT 3 months ago
@fractalfires even with what you said, God still chooses, i haven't read into Malachi, but yes God did sovereignly chose the Gentiles as well due to Israel's unbelief. in Romans 9, Paul writes that God chose Jacob or Esau (or substitute it with any other name, point is the same):
" though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls..." (ESV)
abreathinGIFT 3 months ago
@abreathinGIFT It doesn't say God chose Jacob or Esau. It says He hated Esau before they were born.
" For the children being not yet born neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand not of works but of him that calleth" Romans 9:11. It is God's will NOT OURS!
TheBmjone1 1 month ago
@tgillspy1 What part of Mark are you referring to? All are called to repentance by the Gospel,but only the elect can hear it,that's why we are to preach the gospel to all men because WE don't know who the Elect are,even Jesus told His disciples that He has hiding the gospel from many so they WILL NOT believe,they are to have ears but Not Hear and Eyes but not see,Jesus only revealed Father to whom He has chosen to reveal Him to.Did you read what I sent you?
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 Sorry,but you're wrong.To believe what you believe means that you believe you have salvation because of something you did, instead of believing that God saved you by His Grace alone,through a God given faith.You think man can muster up his own faith and then trade it to God for His salvation.
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 Calvin didn't insert the reformed belief into the Bible,he showed how all the Bible fits together in harmony,Arminianism is illogical and just plain inconsistent and wrong.
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 God does not tempt men, God has decreed all things including sin, the devil and our own lust tempt us.
WCOFTheology 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 "Calvin was a treacherous murderer" This is a lie perpetrated by those that hated him and could not Biblically defeat his doctrine and the lie was been carried to this day by folks like you.
One of your favorite ploys is when we give your Scriptural proof instead of refuting it with sound exegesis you say "well, Calvin was a murder so your wrong", my answer is , Calvin was not a murder, and what does that have to do with the Scripture quoted? Answer: NOTHING!
WCOFTheology 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 "Stop attributing to God what is evil and obviously and evidently great heresy...."
Stop teaching that man can thwart God's will when scripture declares this to be impossible,stop telling people that Jesus is a failure who's trying but failing to save everyone,Jesus came to save His people,meaning,people from every tribe tongue and nation of the whole world and Not just Jews only.If Jesus died for everyone head for head, then no one would be in Hell.
CBALLEN 3 months ago
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@tgillspy1 "You are clearly being deceived."
So far the Bible has proven that you are the deceived one,not me.Study the Bible,study,study,study.You need discipleship in the worst way,so pray for wisdom and understanding,pray that God will cause you to believe and understand His word..
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 God is behind everything that happens both Good and Evil. Is 47:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?Jer 32:42 For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.
Your problem is,is you don't believe God,you have created a god more to your liking.
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 Adam and Eve were made perfect,but they were also made mutable,just like Satan,meaning they would fail to continue to be perfect.God is immutable and made a plan before time and now all people are fulfilling that plan.Now,do you still believe Adam thwarted God's plan or do you believe that the Bible contradicts it'self?
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgills " i suppose you think i am accountable for adam choice to sin..."
The Bible is very clear on this,Adam's sin brought DEATH to the whole human race,this is the reasons why babies die,but Jesus brought life to many of these same cursed people.We all sin because we are born sinners,this includes the sheep who Jesus died for and the goats who He didn't die for.Those who follow the beast will do so because their names were not written in the Lamb's B.O.L. before time.Rev.13:8 & Rev 17:8
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 You seem to ignore the fact that God says no one can thwart His will,and since this is true,we must then conclude that Adam eating from the tree of good and evil was God's plan from the beginning.God is never surprised by anything,all things happen according to His eternal decree.There will not be one person in Hell that Jesus died for,since Jesus only died for HIS PEOPLE,so if you try to say we are all God's children,that would mean ,some of God's children will end up in Hell.
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 Job 42:2 I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted.
Looks like God has proved you wrong again.
CBALLEN 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 the bonehead figures God's plan A was for people NOT to keep his laws.
Any other view according to him is a low view of the cross. A father duct tapes his two kids and pushes them in the water. His intention is only to kill one of them. He gives them both a fake command to SWIM or else he will drown them as punishment. He lets the girl drown and blames her for not obeying to glorify his 'justice', but saves the boy to create a 'high view' of his (snicker)..."mercy". (choke)
fractalfires 3 months ago
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@fractalfires Is every thought including the WICKED thoughts of every person that has ever lived in God's mind or not? If yes, is God sinful? If those thoughts were in my mind I would be sinful!
WCOFTheology 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 Sorry that you have such a low view of the cross that you relegate it to some plan B. The reason The Son/Word spoke everything into existence is for the glory of the cross. Do you not realize that the redeemed will share a much greater glory with Christ that would never have been possible if Adam had not of sinned?
1689Baptist 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 Without the fall how was there ever going to be a cross? Do you really think God would leave such an important decision in the hands of Adam and take a chance that Adam would not fall and rob His Son of His crowning Glory obtained only in the cross?
1689Baptist 3 months ago
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Read Romans 9.. starting at verse 6.
why does scripture say “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”(NIV)
since this pastor uses KJV, look at Romans 9:11
abreathinGIFT 4 months ago
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Read Romans 9.. starting at verse 6.
why does scripture say “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”(NIV)
since this pastor uses KJV, look at Romans 9:11
abreathinGIFT 4 months ago
Read Romans 9.. starting at verse 6.
why does scripture say “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”(NIV)
since this pastor uses KJV, look at Romans 9:11
abreathinGIFT 4 months ago
@abreathinGIFT the quote is actually from Malachi 1:2 that Paul was citing. Read it and see if God's prophecy was speaking about the actual characters named Jacob and Esau or not. In verse 4 we see it is not the individual named Esau, because the name is substituted with EDOM.
Edom is the same word from which we get Adam, meaning red soil. The Jews and the Early Church understood Esau or Edom or Adam to be the rest of mankind, ie, the GENTILES.
fractalfires 3 months ago
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@fractalfires Is every thought including the WICKED thoughts of every person that has ever lived in God's mind or not? If yes, is God sinful? If those thoughts were in my mind I would be sinful!
WCOFTheology 3 months ago
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Rom 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. neither having done any good or evil, neither having done any good or evil, neither having done any good or evil, neither having done any good or evil, neither having done any good or evil, NEITHER HAVING DONE ANY GOOD OR EVIL!
WCOFTheology 3 months ago
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Calvinism is sick & twisted to suggest God would actually choose to create people and punish them in Hell for all of eternity. He tells us to love our enemies. Would He turn around and torture His forever?
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 "Many people have the wisdom understanding and discernment "not" to serve the "God" of calvinism."
The God of the Bible is the God that reformed people worship,both wisdom and discernment play a part ,but unless God Gives one The NEW BIRTH FIRST,they will never believe,SINCE THE SPIRIT must be present in the person first for him to discern salvation which is a spiritual matter.God regenerates us,Quickens us to life from our DEAD STATE,just like Jesus calling Lazarus to life.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
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@tgillspy1 "The living and true God would never tell someone to burn someone at the stake.Do you realize that....?"
Do you know the whole story or are you just gossiping about something that you really don't have a clue about?
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 Why don't you get a Strong's concordance and see what context Kosmos is being used in ,in that verse?Some times whole world means whole world of believers,sometimes,w.w. means all Gentiles or unbelievers,sometime it means GENTILES AND Jews ect.The Pharisees said the WHOLE WORLD has gone out after Jesus,was the whole world following Him?What about the love of money being the root of ALL EVIL?Did Adam ,Eve and Satan sin because of their love of money?.No,all kinds of evil or people.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@CBALLEN I love how these people just stop their ears and say, "nanna, nanna, I can't hear you"!
1689Baptist 3 months ago
@tgillspy1 Open theism's denial that God knows the future, is the logical evolution of the Arminian denial that God foreordains the future.Open Theism is Hyper -Arminianism,in all it's God dishonoring glory.A or C,it makes no difference,if you believe God knows all things,then He knew who wouldn't be in Heaven even before He created them. So,are you an OPEN THEIST? Or just a run of the mill Arminian?I think you may be an Open theist,am I right?
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 IS 63:17 "O LORD, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not?"....Who hardens whose heart?who saves men? who has planned the future and calls it to be and it is?who has decreed all things that come to pass?can anyone thwart God's will?does Jesus ever try and fail to save people,are any of God's children in Hell?Does God know all things?Could He stop ALL SIN if He chose to?can God learn?
CBALLEN 4 months ago
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@tgillspy1 " Reformed religion is not christianity, it never has been christianity ,and it never will be christianity", as he smiles self assured.
The Bible is where we gather our doctrine from,we don't impose our doctrines on the Bible and the reformed belief most certainly is found and gleaned from the scriptures.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 Is this Sanderson nut your preacher?I'd love to either debate myself or see some other reformed person debate this topic,C vs non-Calvinists,with him in front of a live crowd of believers,using THE BIBLE ALONE! This way he can't dodge any questions ,like all Arminians do.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgill "You think you have some secret knowledge"
Yes,it only can be understood by believers in the Lord Jesus,the natural man can't understand Salvation ,that's only reserved for God's elect believers."1cor 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."
See!God must put His Spirit in a man before he believes in Christ, that's why IT'S SAVED BY GRACE THU FAITH 100%
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 "So you say that you are a christian who rejects 1 John 2 KJV... ?"
No,but I see that you reject the God of the Bible,you are an ATHEIST ,when it comes to you believing in God,all you've done is make a god more to your own liking,just like this looney preacher has done.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
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@tgillspy1 I've never said that or anything like it.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 People only have free will in terms of their natural inclination, which is sin. Think this over and I think you will see that for the most part, we are only capable of being wretched. Godliness and goodnes only comes from God, apart from which we can do nothing but sin. That's what scripture says.
SkiesVibrant 4 months ago
@SkiesVibrant Amen,our sinful nature causes us to eat,drink and sleep sinning,in fact,God must constantly hold men back from sinning all they want or we'd all be dead by now.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@CBALLEN Yes... but I have to say, it took me a long time to understand this distinction and God had to do a work with my heart before I would accept it. But once I truly opened my mind to the Doctrines of Grace, all else wasn't more complicated, the hard parts of some doctrines all fell into place. It was a glorious time for me. You know what's truly funny? If it hadn't of been for Sanderson making a fool of himself, I'd have never stumbled upon Dr. White. God does have a sense of humor.
SkiesVibrant 4 months ago
@SkiesVibrant Amen the Lord truly does work all things out for good for those who love God and are the called out ones according to HIS purpose,so yes,it was actually God who opened your mind to the Doctrines of Grace,the same as He does all believers.This person here has his mind shut by God's design,however we should defend the faith because others will see these posts and God may use them to make them want to find the truth,the same way He caused you and I to find Dr. White.Isn't God GOOD?
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@CBALLEN Amen... He is soooo good. Sanderson would have a fit if he knew he only helped me to take the first step across the Arminian bridge into light. Yep... our God knows how to use even evil for good. My Christian walk did a 180 when I no longer had to fear reading Romans 8 and 9. Did you see the parody that 1689 Baptist did on Sanderson's Calvinist rant? HIlarious, yet so true. I subbed and send a friends invite to you. God Bless. It's good to have another Reformed friend.
SkiesVibrant 4 months ago
@SkiesVibrant he,he,I just sent an invite to you too Brother! And you are so right,every sin man can conceive and achieve,has always been for Good and to God's glory in the end.Man plans his way,but God determines his steps,Prov.16:9,like so many proverbs,God makes it crystal clear that God determines what ALL MEN will do,HE'S playing with a stacked hand and loaded dice,everything is going according to God's plan,no matter how free man thinks he is.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@SkiesVibr If the Holy Spirit is in a person then He leads them into all truth,and I don't believe that anyone who has truly been saved and had the doctrines of Grace presented to them,can refuse believing in them until their death.Now I know they're ignorant folks like us who didn't believe or understand them at first,simply because we were never taught them or exposed to them through much of our 'SAVED LIFE",but God will cause one to believe them if He's saved them, cuz Arminianism is false
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@SkiesVibrant "God does have a sense of humor."
Just think about poor ole Saul,who became Paul.He was just minding his own business,headed to Damascus to imprison and execute Christians,and the Out OF THE BLUE,Jesus knocks him from his horse,introduces Himself and begins to tell Paul how the rest of his life will be,He didn't ASK him what he thought about it either,Jesus just turned him into the thing Paul hated the most,A CHRISTIAN! How's that for irony?LOL
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@CBALLEN I hadn't thought of free will in terms of knocking folks down off of horse, but now that I think about, the means to the end are God's.
BTW... It's SISTER Skies!
SkiesVibrant 4 months ago
@SkiesVibrant Oh,God Bless you Sister.Yep,Christ knocked Saul off of the horse and then after Jesus' introduction Jesus just goes right into telling Paul what he was going to be doing for the rest of his life,even how he would suffer for Jesus' sake,all this happened,with Jesus asking only one question ,if I remember correctly,"Why are you persecuting me".Jesus not only changed Saul's NAME WITHOUT PERMISSION,BUT He saved him without his permission too.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
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@tgillspy1 "and you continue to be illogical and a liar.."
.and you continue to be illogical and a liar..
CBALLEN 4 months ago
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@tgillspy1 Repent ye and believe the gospel. Read also Galatians 1 KJV It is ver clear. Calvinism is " another gospel " once again SMARTEN UP.
How does Galatians prove Calvinism wrong?Arminianism is another gospel,it's man centered it claims man is the captain of his ship and man decides what's going to take place and not God.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 It seems you just keep making assertions without proof,prove me wrong with scripture and maybe you won't look as silly as you do now. Exeget Acts 13:48 if you think I'm wrong,I bet you can't.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
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@tgillspy1 Did your mother have any children with an IQ over 10?
CBALLEN 4 months ago
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@tgillspy1 Sure they do
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 I'm giving you scripture,so you have it backwards.God's ways are not man's ways.Just like WHEN Jesus walked on Earth,He did everything backwards of how men would do things.God has told us that He makes some pots for Mercy and some for destruction.He's made all things for their own purpose,even the wicked for the day of evil.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This is why one cannot believe unless God makes him born again first.
John 6:44No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@CBALLEN 1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This is why one cannot believe unless God makes him born again first.
John 6:44No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
tgspy says," You got it backwards....."he smirks,"People have free will.." he protests...
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 You're just spouting more ignorance.You know,just having a ZEAL for God means nothing if you're believing in the wrong God,you might as well be a J.W.,Morman,Muslim,Buddhist ect..A natural unsaved man can only choose a false god for himself.God must cause ones NEW BIRTH before they can ever believe in Christ,Those who believe have been born of God.Jesus also told Nicodemus,"YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN" belief always follows the New Birth.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
Rev 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
Notice,the people who were not written in the Book O.L before the creation of the world,will follow the beast.Do you think God is trying but failing to save these?
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 Look,I can see that you really don't have a clue about scripture,all you know is what some half wit Arminan preacher has told you the Bible says and you never check him out.Look at ACTS 13:48 for example,it says .....as many as were appointed to eternal life believed,it doesn't say "ALL who Believe were appointed to eternal life.Words and their order mean specific things,and all of scripture was superintended by the Holy Spirit.I'll help you if you're serious,but I don't think U are.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 I and probably most people who are reformed now,used to believe the same way you do,but once you begin to really study what's being said and pray for wisdom,you won't see it.You will find that God is a whole lot more awesome than you once believed Him to be and that He controls absolutely everything down to the last molecule,so you really need to study and not just go around saying people are stupid or Calvinism is a lie,because that makes you look petty and unlearned.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 2 Peter 3:9 is speaking of the coming of Jesus and how some are scoffing at it,so Peter is explaining to all the believers that God is being Patient WITH YOU OR US ,depending on the translation,so that none of YOU SHOULD PERISH,again speaking about the elect to be born in the future.Think,God knew exactly who won't be saved before time,so He' not waiting on any Goats to be saved,unless you think that God is senile and forgets things.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 Do you ever pray for God to save the lost? If yes,why? Isn't God trying as hard as He can to save everyone already and failing in most cases?Do you believe your prayers make God more powerful or are you just trying to make Him feel worse than He already must feel?
I can pray for God to save people,because my God can actually save WHO EVER HE WANTS TO SAVE,your god can't,he must depend on his creatures to untie his hands by cooperating with him.
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 I'd like to ask you the same thing.I believe in the God of the Bible,the one who knows all things,the one WHO gave us His infoulable word,the God who has an eternal will that no man can thwart.What about you?
CBALLEN 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 ... tell why you believ that its a lie?? or your just another ignorant christian...????????
bachsoc 4 months ago
@tgillspy1 haha i did. It simply says God is Sovereign and man is not.
clayweigand 4 months ago
all seminaries SBTS sends out more missionaries athru the IMB than any other seminary. and evangelism...i havent heard any videos about him edifying any one or encouraging his congregation of 4 or any of the like...
bachsoc 4 months ago
this man is fatalistic and ignorant, he bashes calvinism and he cliams everyone else is wrong bashes everyone but no one knows who he is , he makes the world look at christians and say they are so hard and harsh who wants to be like that , he shows no love, alot of every other preacher is sending people to hell. he makes calvinists to be people who dont do missions and evangelism, not knowing that the southern baptist seminary is calvinist in some areas but not all her are calvinist but out of
bachsoc 4 months ago
Thats the great thing about a smaller church. The pastor is free to preach directly against a school of thought that is erroneous. My church is so big the pastors have to tread lightly around some topics like Calvinism. They don't even refer directly to the heresy of word of faith preachers. They make very general references.
colinb890 5 months ago
Thats right mate you are the potter of your own clay (sarcasm) I wonder what sort of pot we would end up being if it was up to us.
fatarsemonkey 5 months ago
No if you read your bible it says God gives them over to their lusts or will. There are two wills Gods and mans, mans self will isn't free it leeds to destruction and unless God births you, you won't have a will to go down the narrow path. Not my will but your will I think is a good way of looking at it. Also if you think God won't allow bad things to happen to people read the book of Job.
fatarsemonkey 5 months ago
aparently he never read 2nd thess . here it says God chooses us for salvation .
bibleissuedebates 5 months ago
this guy knows nothing of scripture .
bibleissuedebates 5 months ago
bro...for 1. read romans 9. for two can you please tell me where in the bible it says the words "free will"??
"jacob i have loved, but esau i have HATED
clayweigand 5 months ago
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clayweigand 5 months ago
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
prchrbill 5 months ago
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1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
prchrbill 5 months ago
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
prchrbill 5 months ago
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But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
prchrbill 5 months ago
hahahahahaha Jacob & Esau!!!!!!
Romans 9????????
mrpetermjohnston 6 months ago
Judas had the chance to repent until the last moment.
We can be sure that when the Messiah called him FRIEND before to be kissed being identified as Jesus.
Everybody have the same right to repent and become a Creator's child in Christ Jesus.
marcelobetel 6 months ago
Some calvinists believe that Judas was predestinated to be the traitor - they read The Bible backwards...
They say: "Judas was never a real believer, the Bible says...KJV John 12:6 ..."
So, all unbelievers are traitors before Jesus Christ, right?
NOPE. They are wicked, disobedient, unbelieving, but are in the same situation of all, without exception, without the new birth in Christ Jesus. Nothing better or worse. Justice is to treat everyone in the same situation by the same values.
marcelobetel 6 months ago
You serve the Pope well.
hisfreewill 6 months ago
This guy is abysmally ignorant where it concerns what the reformed view is. He makes man sovereign and God an impotent.
ctu74211 6 months ago
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Jacob and Esau? Really?
"And not only so; but Rebecca also having conceived by one, even by our father Isaac - for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, 'The elder shall serve the younger'. Even as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'"
Romans 9:10-13 (ASV)
What sin do Esau choose before he was born?
Bill244888 7 months ago
It appears that it is the Calvinist God who is God and He will be the one judging you,do you think you'll argue with Him as you stand before His throne?I don't,all you'll do is bow your head,then your knee and confess Jesus as Lord.Look on the bright side,He still may humble you and save you,because some plant,some water,but God gives the increase,proving not all of God's people believe with just one hearing of the gospel.
CBALLEN 7 months ago
Luke 14:33.We are to count the cost of following Christ and be willing to give up everything ,including our lives to follow Jesus.As you remember Peter and the others still owned their boats until they were called to preach,so yes we should willingly give up all we own to follow Christ if called to.There's nothing in this life that any Christian wouldn't give up if they believe.When He saves us would should seek Him first in everything and He will take care of everything else and He does.
CBALLEN 7 months ago
You appear to be a communist universalist,both are unBiblical,you put your faith in and gain worldly wisdom from men,not of God.
CBALLEN 7 months ago
@CBALLEN Communist?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones Romans 8:9 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
At this time this is where you are,you can't understand the gospel,nor can you obey God's command to repent and believe,you're still hostile to the God of the Bible,you have chosen a god of your own understanding,one that is OK with what ever you decide to do.
CBALLEN 7 months ago
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@CBALLEN Read my statement below.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@CBALLEN By the way, are you going to tell me the 'proper context' of Luke 14:33?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones You know Rev 17:8 tells us that all whose name was not written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world will follow after the Beast and take His mark,these will make all kinds of excuses for doing it too,my baby was starving,I'd lose my house or material goods if I didn't ect.Of course we will know the real reason,because they never belonged to God.
CBALLEN 7 months ago
@CBALLEN If they never belonged to god, the calvinist god PREDESTINED them never to belong to god. Furthermore, this has nothing whatsoever to do with what Christ says in Luke 14:33.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones You need to read all of Luke 14,it proves that an invitation alone will never fill Heaven,it will only be done when the servant compells(overcomes all resistence) them to come and those simply invited won't be welcome.In John 6:44 it couldn't be any clearer,only those who the Father draws(overcomes all resistance) will come and be saved,those not drawn can't be saved.
CBALLEN 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones What do you suppose Acts13:48 means? When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Notice when the Gentiles(who couldn't be saved before) heard this(that Jesus died for Gentiles too) they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.Notice again,not all the Gentiles were appointed to eternal life,just the ones appointed believed.
CBALLEN 7 months ago