Just from this clip I theorize that this jesuit doesn't believe in the infallibility of the Bible. Is there something in Genesis that implies the earth is flat? I've heard it said that if you can't believe the first book of the Bible then you might as well throw the whole thing in the trash.I observe (like a scientist) that this man is a false teacher.
The Bible was written by man expressing God's word, it was not "written by God".
It was written in stories for people of the time to understand His word. Any literal translation is meaningless. It is the message that the original writers are trying to convey that is important!
In my opinion the largest flaw to his ideology is that, while science may be constantly changing, at least it is dynamic (in the sense that it is forward moving thinking) rather static and out-of-date.
@mechfeeney The teachings by Jesus that we know through the writings of his disciples and later accounts continue to be valid. How the world began and how it's going to end is not to be taken seriously. But how you treat your fellow man and how you wish to be treated is.
"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)
And taken literally, as the bible itself DEMANDS... it's a badly written, silly, yet insanely evil fairy tale.
@lashingsofgaut while it may prove things in the colloquial sense, science doesn't prove things in the more formal sense. In a formal sense, something being proven means that it must be true and there are no other possible options no matter how unlikely. For examples, fossils don't "prove" that dinosaurs existed. Even if you can't think of another explanation, it would be fallacious to say that there is no other explanation. It would be an argument from ignorance.
@lashingsofgaut Of course science doesn't prove anything. That's the whole point of the scientific method. If anything were to formally be regarded as proven, science wouldn't be objective anymore. So be careful when calling other people retarded; it might just be that you're the weak link in the room.
@DementorBob science doesnt prove things. ok then i didnt realize. well i may aswell throw my globe of the world out because for all we know the world is flat. or maybe its triangular...science cant prove its not. what a joke
@lashingsofgaut Did you see the word "formally" in my post? Science does not formally prove anything, goldblumcello explained that rather well. Go and look up what the scientific method actually says.
@DementorBob ok let me get this straight; you say science doesnt "formally" prove anything (no i didnt notice it your post, i have a short attention span, sorry) so what your saying is we cannot prove the world is round, or that aeroplanes fly, or that cars can go, or that we have a vaccine for polio??? coz i def think science has formally proven all that. i was on a plane last week and it def flew, it was true and there was no other option
@lashingsofgaut Again, that's not the way the word "proven" is used in science. Science doesn't prove the world is round - it's an observable fact. That's an important distinction. An observation doesn't need to be proven, it's just there and if you trust your instruments (senses or actual instruments) then you can say it's true.
The shape of the earth is actually a good example: It was theorised and confirmed by maths that the earth was round long before it could be observed. At that point...
@lashingsofgaut ...it was just a theory, because there was still the slight possibility that the assumptions or the math was wrong. When we could actually see that the earth was indeed round it was no longer a theory but an observation.
And no, that does not mean that this theory was "proven", because an actual scientific theory is an explanation of observations, not just observations.
The fundament of the scientific theory is falsification, NOT verification.
Does Mr. Consolmagno then draw a substative distinction between the decision to find metaphorical & spiritual fulfilment from his 30 year out-of-date physics manual & the other book on his desk? Is this decision ultimately a personal preference based upon one's own poetic & aesthetic sensibilities? Does a poem have an expiration date past which one's aesthetic palate _ought_ to find said poem objectionable? Must we continue to value metaphors which celebrate genocide, rape, slavery and misery?
For ppl who dont believe in God without proof i have a question for them: Where is proof that "love" exists. after all most ppl believe in it though you cant see it, bottle it or analyze it, so where is the proof? Through feelings, thats the same as God so isnt that in part proof, what you feel in your heart?
@Nerefurian Thats my point actually, its what you feel in your heart, and you believe Odin exists and thats your choice, in the bible it doesnt say Gods actual name i just call him "God" as thats what it says there. I cant "prove" the God i believe in exists or not, i just go by my heart as you do.
@seahorseofvenice I deny the premise that there is any such thing as "spiritual reality" (whatever that means); yours is a false dichotomy, unless you have proof otherwise? What I believe is determined (compelled!) by my best understanding of the available facts.
I'm no fascist. Teach your kids whatever you want. I hope for their sake, though, that you choose to teach them that the holy zombies, world-covering floods, sea-parting and water-walking are in no way coincident with reality.
@seahorseofvenice I understand very well what this priest is saying, I just happen to think that it is unadulterated bullshit. The claim that science and religion are non-overlapping magisteria is ridiculous so long as there are claims contained in the bible that purport to describe the world as it is, and which people so interpret and act accordingly. And the Catholic church doesn't get to re-interpret the Bible ad infinitum and proclaim by diktat whatever way they find convenient. Not allowed.
@seahorseofvenice The profundity of a calculus or physics textbook far outstrips anything to be found in any religious text you care to name, if you have the sense to see it. The bible fails as a work of literature and as poetry; it has acquired a glossy patina by historical usage that gets reflected in the glassy-eyed stares of mystics and obscurantists, but it remains a cack-handed collection of confabulations. But maybe I'm wrong, and "suffer thou not a witch to live" is sublimity itself,
@seahorseofvenice If theologians and lay religionists accepted your description of religion as myth, there would be little need for rationalists to point out its obsolescence and absurdity at every turn. But when someone (like this clown) claims to believe that the Wholly Babble creation story is literal truth, that sets teeth a-grinding in the reality-based community.
Also, why suspend your critical faculties to enjoy an epic poem? There are as many ways to read as there are people....
Where did the water go after the flood? Also, how long did the flood last--40 days, or 150? How many of each animal--2, or 7? Not even the flood story is internally consistent. And if it's not consistent with itself, how can you know it happened at all? It's all just stories from different tribes mashed togetther and edited to look better. So it can't really be the word of god.
science is the dicovery of God's creation! so sad that a leadr doesnt understand Bible history! The dome or water canopy was USED at theflood! it isnt there anymore. any one who actually reads the BIBLE WILL SEE THIS!! DANG CLERGY, DONT KNOW ANTTHING!
How the hell do these people know that the bible isnt supposed to be taken literaly?? They werent there wen the people wrote the books and they (bible scholars/theologians/etc)...
@KoRnmunk00 Your mind is closed, because you will not accept that God may not exist. You will not accept that the bible could be just like all the other religious texts written throughout history. You don't need evidence of any of this, because you have faith. If you had evidence, you wouldn't need faith...it would be fact. But, instead you are required to have faith, and you do not accept any other possible conclusion. Thus, your mind is closed to the subject of God being a delusion.
@KoRnmunk00 Ohh...touche! Yeah, like I don't understand religion in it's many forms and types, and as if I don't understand the closed minded mentality of those that follow one religion or the other. Sure, go on thinking there is something I don't understand. I'm the one continually reading, learning and accepting new information every day.
@KoRnmunk00 Oh my god! Are you serious!?? It's a religious scriputure, they can write ANY story they like!!! They did LOTS of nice things that don't exist in the bible.....SO WHAT!! So WHAT that the bible has a story of Jesus. He is NO DIFFERENT to ANY other fictional character.
I can tell you about the deeds of THOR as written in their religious text, to prove THAT religious text as correct. You'd think I was delusional. As I think you are to pretend your religion is the only one right
@KoRnmunk00 In the Hindu religion, Vishnu has the only deity to create the earth from a Lotus Flower. Is there some part of a religion which has a detail that another doesn't which gives it some sort of validity? So what that Christianity has a god with a Son? (and anyway, there are MANY MANY previous gods with sons. Like the Egyption god Horus. He was the son of God too, 2000 years before the fictional book of Jesus was written.
I hate how almost ALL theists believe that the bible should not be taken literally JUST BECAUSE you would be considered insane in modern society for doing so. The bible was made thousands of years ago in a time when people had low knowledge of the world and gave the death penalty for just about everything. Of COURSE they would take the bible literally, and I believe everyone who doesn't is just giving an excuse for the madness written down inside of it
@ivlfounder It was written literally not metaphorically from ancient minds to ancient people with ancient problems and beliefs, It is ancient believers offspring that have to reinterpret some parts metaphorically some parts literally, or ignore some parts all together to try and make it 'fit' into reality. No where in the bible does it say ignore this part and listen to this part. The bible is proof there is no god. It's absurdities could only come from the mind of ignorant primitive men.
@ivlfounder It was when it was written. It is asses like yourself that try and morph it into some coherent meaning to fit into the reality of today's world.
@ivlfounder You would laugh, shows your ignorance. They believed back then. Evidently you don't. You laugh at there beliefs, yet don't understand why everyone laughs at yours. WTF? You are an atheist also, I just go one god further than you.
@ivlfounder Can't you read? You are still typing nothing that makes a fucking difference. If I see your therapist I know it will be a waste of money. Your proof.
Paranoid schizophrenics hallucinate, believe in things which don't exist, show signs of delusional thinking and believe they are always being watched.
@ivlfounder For anyone that believes in the bible to go around and correct others facts and claims is the biggest show of hypocrisy there ever was. When you quit pushing the biggest fallacy, the biggest error, the biggest myth ever created, then maybe you can go around correcting others. Until then you are just another fucking hypocrite. A pompous ass who knows nothing more than trivia and can't even fathom the real world. You can't see the forest for the trees. Hypocrite! mathew 6; 5-7.
@ivlfounder For anyone that believes in the bible to go around and correct others facts and claims is the biggest show of hypocrisy there ever was. When you quit pushing the biggest fallacy, the biggest error, the biggest myth ever created, then maybe you can go around correcting others. Until then you are just another fucking hypocrite. A pompous ass who knows nothing more than trivia and can't even fathom the real world. You can't see the forest for the trees. Hypocrite! mathew 6; 5-7
@ivlfounder Point", you talk about 'point' . I have a point. You on the other hand are just a pointless wandering depressed soul who needs a mate. Sex can do wonders for your insecurities. You won't need to have a warm and fuzzy being taking care of oyu, You'll have a nice warm human to snuggle up to, ah, reality. flesh.
@ivlfounder See what came out of your head, Religious thoughts of men having sex with men or maybe priests with chior boys, or maybe priest with preist. That's religion talking, I on the other hand hate religion and it's bullshit.
@ivlfounder Don't worry about me I have a wife, kids, grand kids on the way and I am in full control of my faculties, you on the other hand thick an invisible being controls yours. You think an invisible being watches over you. I have procreated and full filled my meaning, my purpose in this world. You don't even know what yours is.
@ivlfounder Do you ever get it? There you go off on a tangent again. Your whole statement doesn't make a bit of difference to my statement. You say nothing, your net out put is zero or a negative. You spin on a religious turntable never going anywhere.
if they don't take it literaly it breaks down, but if you do take it literaly it makes testable claims about life, the earth, the universe that can be proven true or false. what this fellow is doing is called misdirection, its a political strategy to skate around dificult topics. creationists need to chose literal or symbolism, because it can't be both at the same time. if they chose literal, we prove them wrong, if they chose symbolism, then they need to keep there mythology to themselves
The bible is the worst item that exists to drive people to athiesm. A god that burn non-worshipers? Same strategy that Saddam Hussein and Hitler used. Not to mention the genocide, the rape, the killing and other ridiculous fairy tales. People believe it because the human mind is completely capable of believing these and much stranger things.
Honestly, you have to believe that the Bible in divinely inspired words from God himself before you even begin to reason or debate anything about it. to do that you have to first accept that there is a God, there are absolutes, and He has a way he wants you to live.
Go read a book like Evidence that Demands Verdict (by Josh McDowell)
Then come back and see if you comment the same.
If you really want have an opinion that has weight to it...do your homework.
The speaker should have defined proof, and elaborated on how humble science is. Some people will take this to mean that it's reasonable to suggest that science doesn't have knowledge or proof of anything, let alone evolution. I hope that the speaker doesn't think one can over turn natural selection, heredity through dna, and other principles of evolution.
I hear people saying the bible is metaphor and poetry, but I don't see any consistency in this approach.
The entirety of the bible, or ANY book of the god of Abraham is a book of feel good fiction not meant to be taken literally. That being said (and yes that does sound like a vapid attack on the bible). But it does also have some GOOD things in it. However i believe those good things were on accident. God is only there to explain the unknown. Any of those books have mixed and contradictory moral messages that can be proven as "good" by a 3rd grader these days. Even in a non-religious home.
Science doesn't proves? off course it does! Science proves by experimentation that some facts are false and others true. It does happens that new discoveries may refute early scientific facts and in those cases the scientific community discards those facts and accepts the newly discovered ones. New books are printed and life goes on. When was the last time the bible was re edited?
Oh dear! Newton may be out of date but so too is the bible! How can an intelligent learned man be so silly? He sounds so plausible and clever but actually the man is talking nonsense. Adam & Eve don't exist, FACT, so No Original Sin and even if they did exist Homo Sapiens is not related to them. Not one drop of A&E in Homo Sapiens, so we are NOT GUILTY. Allegories are no use when it comes to criminal acts. No crime, no punishment but what would the Vatican do without Original Sin?
'Science describes - not proves' - I'm afraid he might have underestimated his audience, every reasonable individual knows that the scientific method is about drawing up a hypothesis and then PROVING by means of experiment and observation in order to establish an objective scientific statement. This man is a soldier of Satan, hands down, the Holy See must be very proud to have such servants. I pray that this man will not lead any more souls to the lake of fire.
@GundamizerFreedom you were going so well, you used logic, common sense and made an educated argument- then you started in with the lake of fire and Satan stuff- all stuff of fiction and fools not hypotheses, proving and observation
This is abominable. This silver-tongued mocker is truly gifted when it comes to twisting the Scriptures. He is a razor-sharp master of deception, only such individuals are able to reach the upper echelons of the Jesuit Order. The Gospel is perfectly reasonable and logical, yet it is impossible to understand its logic by the means of the carnal mind - for that you need the guidance of The Holy Spirit of God that leads us to all truth. But Catholics do not teach repentance. May Jesus bless you.
@GundamizerFreedom Once again, i see a post I sincerely hope is very ironic.. Please tell me it is? I truly do feel that i would need some kind of awesome holy guide to be able to understand the bible. I mean what the ass? It's just CRAZY. Have you read it man? I mean, it's filled with logical misses on it's very FIRST PAGE. And it keeps being so, until it's ABSOLUTE LAST!
@Najenin A sincere and humble seeker will be rewarded by Christ with understanding. A mocker will get nothing. It is God that runs this show, friend, not men. Emptying yourself from man-established preconceptions is first step to wisdom. I was once a person that ridiculed the Scriptures. I took God lightly. It was only after Jesus reached out to me that my eyes were opened. Do you honestly believe that 'science does not prove things, it describes'? Does it not strike you as a blatant LIE?
This guy better not let USA Homeland security find out he believes in the Nephilim demon seed theory,lol/They may arrest him for being a suspected terrorist
Genesis doesn't say the earth is FLAT. It says that there is a firmament in the midst of the waters, and that the water above the earth which was kept in an equilibrium prior to the flood all precipitated during the flood which was why no one had seen rain before and why it terrified people so much. They had no idea what a flood WAS prior to Noah's day. This is typical banter from a Jesuit who has taken an oath to crush the heads of Protestant children against the wall. Read their oath sometime.
If the RC church doesn't let science get in the way of taking the Virgin Birth and Resurrection of Christ literally, why does it have a problem with taking the Genesis account of creation literally?
If he agrees that the bible is not to be taken literally then why does he and so many other believers believe what the bible says about Jesus? I think the Bible literalist are crazy but at least they do not pick and choose what is true and not true in the Bible. My wife thinks the Bible is flawed and written by man but believes the Jesus story. I ask her to explain how she can choose that part as truth but no answer. He mentions the Iliad & Oddsey as examples but no one claims they are true.
@CandideNovella You fail to see that if someone takes the whole Bible literally they are simply wrong. I have much more respect for someone if they believe some parts of the Bible than all. If someone literally believes the Noah's Ark story and the 6 day creation story, they are just simply out of their mind. It's been proven otherwise.
@greenelf12 Out of 106 colleges who form the "Christian Coalition of Colleges " only 5 teach Genesis litterally. All the others teach it is allegory in other words fantasy
Does everyone know that the VATICAN, yes thast's right , the bloody Vatican has been putting in millions of dollars into research on ASTRONOMY. why because they know the truth really nexists in science and are just another money making institution that will Again conceal the truth from you or use it to profit from you yet again you christian sheep will pour your money into your chuches delusional teachings. Wake up slave race, which is what we were designed for in the past and used again future
WOW. An atom has NEVER been seen. And it will never be. Because the light particle is is too big to bounce off an atom. Yet from calculations science PROVED it existed, split it and blew up Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
yet another christain excuse to try and maintain christianities dominance on earth....why was it taken so literally back in the days it was written?...and now it is not.. because man has gotten smarter and things in the bible don't make sense anymore..so 'churches' need to find alternative interpretations to follow with the changing times...so now they say the bible wasn't meant to be literally taken. so I geuss God was just a riddle master and left the true meanings hidden in the text..yeah ok
Have you ever read anything written by the Church Fathers of the first century, or Jewish interpretations which predated Christianity? If you have, then you'll know that what you said is not true. In fact, biblical literalism is an emergent interpretation that had it's beginnings in the mid 1800's in America and didn't fully take root until the early 1900's.
If he thinks "The Odyssey" should be interpreted just like the bible... than why doesn't he take "The Odyssey" seriously as well, along with the koran, hadith etc...
"Science describes, it doesn't prove"
"i believe in absolute truth that creation...just as described in the bible"
By your logic...the bible describes therefore it doesn't prove, however you believe in the bible therefore in your mind it proves.
The Bible should be taken literally in its entirety. However, this does not mean literalistically, which is different. Taking the Bible literally does mean taking it literally, as well as metaphorically, analogically, and some others that I can't remember at the moment.
@Killjeser Should we take the bible as litral truth how could we explain thou shalt not kill as opposed to Exodus28:12 'TYou must not allow a witch to live'
How would that do down with the local police and judicial system if we took a gun to the local wiccan population.
@Killjeser Yes Exodus 20:13 is sometimes translated as thou shall not kill, but the Hebrew word is The verb רָצַח (ratsakh) which refers to the premeditated taking of the life of another human being; it is an unauthorized killing. Capital Punishment is not what this is talking about. Killing is not prohibited, Murder is. If you can ever imagine a justified war you first need to understand the difference between these two concepts.
@TheRockHobbit The Bible is man made. Plain and simple. Nothing in it should be taken literal, or you'll go mad trying to make sense of it and come up with funny and ridiculous ideas.
@Killjeser There are countless Facts that testify to the Bible being more than merely a book written by men. One of these facts is that it contains countless prophecies that came true with 100% accuracy. We have copies of those prophecies that are hundreds of years older the events proving that they were written before hand, with other historical sources proving they came true. The Bible is scary at how accurate it is. Try reading "From God to Us" by Norman Geisler
@TheRockHobbit How can you possibly say that. I read the bible. Yes all 66 books. Boring and contradictory as they are, what prophecies? Please show me.
@Killjeser well obviously there is a difference between reading and under standing. I already gave you a book full of evidence, but ill give you one example here. Isaiah 53:5-12 is one of many prophecies of the crucifixion. The septuagint LXX translation of the Old testament contains these prophecies and it dates to between 100 to 400 years before Christ. It actually even predates Crucifixion as a form of capitol punishment.
@TheRockHobbit That just shows that whomever wrote the Old Testament tried to make it fit into the New Testament. The whole part of Jesus arriving atop two donkeys and then calling him Emmanuele are obvious mistranslations from old text. In the bible it says "and these things occurred so the prophecies can be fulfilled". If only the poor author would of had known that Emmanuele was referring to someone else. Don't believe me. Read Isaiah 7. No not a verse. The whole thing.
@Killjeser OK sure that would be a possible arugment you could make, bad grammer aside. However, there are over 300 prophecies that were fulfilled including things that were testified to by extrabiblical sources such as Josephus. Even if the New Testament writers tried to make it fit with the Old Testament, that doesn't explain how they described things like a crucifixion when no such thing existed yet.
@Killjeser Look the simple fact of the matter is this. People don't truly reject God because the Bible is somehow lacking in authenticity. All of these arguments have been made for thousands of years and have all been answered over and over. There is more evidence to the validity of the Bible then there is the Albert Einstein ever existed. The truth is People reject God because they don't like what the Bible says about Him or more to the point they don't like what the Bible says about them.
@TheRockHobbit I am sorry if I upset you. What I mean is that there are far more beautiful things to claim proof of the existence of God than a contradictory book full of bigotry and genocide.
@Killjeser But you see there isn't. Apart from a specific direct revelation where God himself tells us about who He is, there is no way to prove a creator exits, excluding conjecture. I will admit that even conjecture and observation of the Universe might lead you to believe in a creator, but you could never know anything specific about him unless He directly revealed himself to you. That is what the Bible is. It is His Revelation of Himself to us. Your characterizaiton of it is ignorant at best
@TheRockHobbit What makes you think we know anything specific about Him now? With ALL the books all we have are different religions and One God. How many children have you stoned? How many gays have you killed? How many Atheist have you killed? How many people have you killed by working on the sabbath. Yeah, and my characterization is ignorant. But yours is enlightened cause you have a two way radio with God.
@Killjeser Do you know what a straw man argument is? You are arguing against the Bible because it teaches these things, when is does not. You have missed the point by taking verses out of their context. Scripture must be interpreted in light of ALL the scriptures. If you're going to arguing against Christianity then you need to address what Christians actually believe. Otherwise your words are meaningless and you prove yourself ignorant. I don't mean that as in insult. I'm just being honest.
@TheRockHobbit Fair enough. I see your point. Tell horse breeders and dog breeders that whatever breeds they came up with was not due to evolution by trait selection but that God made it so. because in their eyes you will be the ignorant one. Tell doctors that it's not that the bacteria causing virus has become resistant to medication over time, it's that God made it stronger. Again you will be seen as the ignorant one. Everyone thinks they are right. But not everyone can prove it.
@Killjeser Seriously, again with the straw men? Christians don't deny the idea of evolution within a species. We only deny evolution as the source of new species or even as the primary source of life itself. Biology 101: A species is a group of animals that can produce fertile offspring. inherent in that deffinition is that if two animals can produce a fertile offfspring then they are of the same species. A mule for instance is infertile. Not a new species. There are NO new species, only less.
@TheRockHobbit It still sounds abominable. Now matter how you dress it up, it's immoral and ridiculous. Killing someone because of their personal choice of whom they go to bed with or love, is tyrant behavior.
The more people talk to me about the bible, the more I notice that their faith is not in God, but in a graven image, an idol which they call the bible.
@Killjeser What your touching on here is very important Theological idea. More than likely you would also say that it is unthinkable to have the death penalty for telling a lie. Rebellion against God of any kind carries the death penalty. Of course Only God can carry out that execution or make the judgment. Mankind would have been immortal had he not begun rebelling against God. I understand that this is hard to accept, but this is the whole purpose of the Law God gave to the Jews; to teach this
@TheRockHobbit I know you mean, Adam and Eve rebelled against God and that's why everyone dies. And them being ignorant about good and evil before the fruit does not exempt them from justice, even though they did not know they where doing something wrong. I get that part.
But why then, did Jesus preach against these ideas? I mean, assuming you read the bible cover to cover. He stopped an adulteress from being stoned and said not to kill a man working on the sabbath etc etc. against the law ...
@Killjeser The whole purpose of the Law was to show mankind that they are guilty before God. The problem is men tend to think that they are not guilty, only others are. So, they stand in judgment. Those are the one's Jesus scolded. The self righteous. The first step to being reconciled with God has to be recognizing your own guilt.
@TheRockHobbit --The first step to being reconciled with God has to be recognizing your own guilt.-- Wasn`t that the way HE made us. What a wonderful god, blaming his creatures for the way he made them. And we should feel guilty about it. NUTS.
@Killjeser It actually says not to commit MURDER: i.e. pre-meditated killing of a person. Killing in response to the committing of a crime is not murder, it is an attempt to prevent crimes from running rampant in a community. You can argue over whether or not you think homosexuality should be a crime, but clearly in the Jewish camp it was a crime. The Hebrew word in the 6th commandment is "ratsah", which means to murder or to "lie in wait to kill".
@MentorOfMinos It still sounds abominable. Now matter how you dress it up, it's immoral and ridiculous. Killing someone because of their personal choice of whom they go to bed with or love, is tyrant behavior.
The more people talk to me about the bible, the more I notice that their faith is not in God, but in a graven image, an idol which they call the bible.
@Killjeser the Bible never says thou shall not kill... not once in the entie Bible if you look in the original hebrew/greek.... it says thou shall not murder.. which is a different thing... death was just merely the punishment for breaking the law...
@goldyaaron LOL, its amazing how you guys just look to mold it to your own ideals. Its even worse to have death as a punishment for petty crimes A monstrous book, regardless. Obvious work of man.
@Eastmanarium Actually refusing to take the Bible literally is just an excuse to re-interpret it however they would like, disregarding the original author's intent. For The record I believe in taking it literally, but in its original context, and in light of the genre of the particular book, and in light of the scriptures as a whole. In other words a historical-grammatical hermeneutic
I had the pleasure of watching his lecture when he came to Cornell University and talked to him briefly afterward. The Guy (no pun intended) is absolutely brilliant, plus he really knows his science (MIT grad).
just because the bible is 3000 years old does not make it fact.
It is contrived and hypocritical and is used to control and instill fear in the masses and very profitable way of selling a dream. The best MLC multi level company i have ever witnessed. fucking wake people wake up. g
od exists but not the way the assholes on earth represent god. they has bastersized the bible and its interpretaations, removed parts of it that would empower you.
Fantastic point. Aligns with lots of psychological studies on predictable irrationality. People who live with blinders, totally focused on their little world of personal experience, will interpret everything else through that lens.
I assume you watched the entire video given in the link...
I'd say he's just a subscriber to liberal theology. That brand of theology is certainly not winning too many lay Christians over, but it has long been popular amongst priests, theologians and religious scholars. What he mentioned--God not existing, rather being the grounding of existence, and being suprapersonal rather than personal--remind me of Tillich. Claiming Jesus as symbol and taking his existence as irrelevant would complete it.
I was shocked, though, when he called the common believer a pagan. Though I agree with most of what he meant by it, I don't think he has any authority to call their Christianity false and his true. I would argue that he's a pagan as well, in fact even more so.
And by getting atheism wrong (by claiming that it requires an understanding of what the god is that's being rejected), I don't see him making too many friends on either side. Similarly in what he said about engineers, its truth regardless
I doubt atheists object to the claim they reject things when there is no proof. Most atheists indeed reject god because they DO understand what they are rejecting, the literal interpretation of god. I, as an atheist have studied what it is I don't find rational.
Of course. My beef is with the idea that a very good understanding is *required*. I personally reject a variety of gods for a variety of reasons.
Some are incoherent, some unsupported, some contradict what we see. Some understanding is required for these, but there are gods so poorly defined there's nothing I could accept if I wanted to. Not believing in such a god is almost forced upon me. And then there are the gods I simply know nothing about. I disbelieve precisely because I know nothing.
I find that all gods are poorly defined. I think the term god refers to a concept. I have my concept of what their god is, they have their own. This is fine with me unless they attempt to make me believe in their definition of god. I agree some people could call evolution god, or atoms god, or themselves god, but to me, god does not exist. These other things have a clearly defined explanation and I choose to rely on that definition.
So, whether someone worships something they cannot define, I don't care. Where I care is when they seek to make me worship it too. As Thomas Jefferson said, "Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than on our opinions in physics and geometry....The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
brother guy #1
CinderellaBaghdad 1 month ago
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Ipostle 1 month ago
Just from this clip I theorize that this jesuit doesn't believe in the infallibility of the Bible. Is there something in Genesis that implies the earth is flat? I've heard it said that if you can't believe the first book of the Bible then you might as well throw the whole thing in the trash.I observe (like a scientist) that this man is a false teacher.
Ipostle 1 month ago
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The Bible was written by man expressing God's word, it was not "written by God".
It was written in stories for people of the time to understand His word. Any literal translation is meaningless. It is the message that the original writers are trying to convey that is important!
playbak 1 month ago
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toSTONEiGO 1 month ago
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playbak 1 month ago
The Bible is NOT 3000 years old. Jesus was born 2000 years ago.
passingbynight 5 months ago
In my opinion the largest flaw to his ideology is that, while science may be constantly changing, at least it is dynamic (in the sense that it is forward moving thinking) rather static and out-of-date.
mechfeeney 6 months ago
@mechfeeney The teachings by Jesus that we know through the writings of his disciples and later accounts continue to be valid. How the world began and how it's going to end is not to be taken seriously. But how you treat your fellow man and how you wish to be treated is.
passingbynight 5 months ago
"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)
And taken literally, as the bible itself DEMANDS... it's a badly written, silly, yet insanely evil fairy tale.
Ryakki 6 months ago
science doesnt prove things?!?!? are you fkn retarded???...dinosaur fossils dont just 'suggest' dinosaurs existed.. they proved dinosaurs existed
lashingsofgaut 7 months ago
@lashingsofgaut while it may prove things in the colloquial sense, science doesn't prove things in the more formal sense. In a formal sense, something being proven means that it must be true and there are no other possible options no matter how unlikely. For examples, fossils don't "prove" that dinosaurs existed. Even if you can't think of another explanation, it would be fallacious to say that there is no other explanation. It would be an argument from ignorance.
goldblumcello 6 months ago
@lashingsofgaut Of course science doesn't prove anything. That's the whole point of the scientific method. If anything were to formally be regarded as proven, science wouldn't be objective anymore. So be careful when calling other people retarded; it might just be that you're the weak link in the room.
DementorBob 6 months ago in playlist science stuff jokes
@DementorBob science doesnt prove things. ok then i didnt realize. well i may aswell throw my globe of the world out because for all we know the world is flat. or maybe its triangular...science cant prove its not. what a joke
lashingsofgaut 6 months ago
@lashingsofgaut Did you see the word "formally" in my post? Science does not formally prove anything, goldblumcello explained that rather well. Go and look up what the scientific method actually says.
DementorBob 5 months ago
@DementorBob ok let me get this straight; you say science doesnt "formally" prove anything (no i didnt notice it your post, i have a short attention span, sorry) so what your saying is we cannot prove the world is round, or that aeroplanes fly, or that cars can go, or that we have a vaccine for polio??? coz i def think science has formally proven all that. i was on a plane last week and it def flew, it was true and there was no other option
lashingsofgaut 5 months ago
@lashingsofgaut Again, that's not the way the word "proven" is used in science. Science doesn't prove the world is round - it's an observable fact. That's an important distinction. An observation doesn't need to be proven, it's just there and if you trust your instruments (senses or actual instruments) then you can say it's true.
The shape of the earth is actually a good example: It was theorised and confirmed by maths that the earth was round long before it could be observed. At that point...
DementorBob 5 months ago
@lashingsofgaut ...it was just a theory, because there was still the slight possibility that the assumptions or the math was wrong. When we could actually see that the earth was indeed round it was no longer a theory but an observation.
And no, that does not mean that this theory was "proven", because an actual scientific theory is an explanation of observations, not just observations.
The fundament of the scientific theory is falsification, NOT verification.
DementorBob 5 months ago
@DementorBob ok. fair point
lashingsofgaut 5 months ago
Please do your faith the honor to call it faith, thanks
iliveon 7 months ago
Does Mr. Consolmagno then draw a substative distinction between the decision to find metaphorical & spiritual fulfilment from his 30 year out-of-date physics manual & the other book on his desk? Is this decision ultimately a personal preference based upon one's own poetic & aesthetic sensibilities? Does a poem have an expiration date past which one's aesthetic palate _ought_ to find said poem objectionable? Must we continue to value metaphors which celebrate genocide, rape, slavery and misery?
myerssa7 7 months ago
For ppl who dont believe in God without proof i have a question for them: Where is proof that "love" exists. after all most ppl believe in it though you cant see it, bottle it or analyze it, so where is the proof? Through feelings, thats the same as God so isnt that in part proof, what you feel in your heart?
mojo498100 8 months ago
@mojo498100 Prove to me that Odin doesn't exist, for he is the one and only TRUE god! Glory be to the father, the hammer, and Valhalla!
Nerefurian 8 months ago
@Nerefurian Thats my point actually, its what you feel in your heart, and you believe Odin exists and thats your choice, in the bible it doesnt say Gods actual name i just call him "God" as thats what it says there. I cant "prove" the God i believe in exists or not, i just go by my heart as you do.
mojo498100 8 months ago
@mojo498100 hmm...I respect and agree with you opinion good sir. My odin be with you!
I HAVE THE POWERRRR!!!
Nerefurian 8 months ago
@Nerefurian Thank you, and may my God be with you my friend and i respect your beliefs as well (even though i am not a "sir" lol) Take Care :)
mojo498100 8 months ago
@seahorseofvenice I deny the premise that there is any such thing as "spiritual reality" (whatever that means); yours is a false dichotomy, unless you have proof otherwise? What I believe is determined (compelled!) by my best understanding of the available facts.
I'm no fascist. Teach your kids whatever you want. I hope for their sake, though, that you choose to teach them that the holy zombies, world-covering floods, sea-parting and water-walking are in no way coincident with reality.
langbei 8 months ago
@seahorseofvenice I understand very well what this priest is saying, I just happen to think that it is unadulterated bullshit. The claim that science and religion are non-overlapping magisteria is ridiculous so long as there are claims contained in the bible that purport to describe the world as it is, and which people so interpret and act accordingly. And the Catholic church doesn't get to re-interpret the Bible ad infinitum and proclaim by diktat whatever way they find convenient. Not allowed.
langbei 8 months ago
@seahorseofvenice The profundity of a calculus or physics textbook far outstrips anything to be found in any religious text you care to name, if you have the sense to see it. The bible fails as a work of literature and as poetry; it has acquired a glossy patina by historical usage that gets reflected in the glassy-eyed stares of mystics and obscurantists, but it remains a cack-handed collection of confabulations. But maybe I'm wrong, and "suffer thou not a witch to live" is sublimity itself,
langbei 8 months ago
@seahorseofvenice If theologians and lay religionists accepted your description of religion as myth, there would be little need for rationalists to point out its obsolescence and absurdity at every turn. But when someone (like this clown) claims to believe that the Wholly Babble creation story is literal truth, that sets teeth a-grinding in the reality-based community.
Also, why suspend your critical faculties to enjoy an epic poem? There are as many ways to read as there are people....
langbei 8 months ago
Well, if all science will be obsolete in the future, what's the point, eh?
Let's stop looking, in fact, we may as well regress and roll around in the mud.
LordYon13 8 months ago
My hd tv is out of date now. I still wouldnt swap it for a bible thanks.
jgsouter 8 months ago
This guy would get destroyed by Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens or Dawkins.
BadMannerKorea 9 months ago
Where did the water go after the flood? Also, how long did the flood last--40 days, or 150? How many of each animal--2, or 7? Not even the flood story is internally consistent. And if it's not consistent with itself, how can you know it happened at all? It's all just stories from different tribes mashed togetther and edited to look better. So it can't really be the word of god.
thekaxmax 9 months ago
science is the dicovery of God's creation! so sad that a leadr doesnt understand Bible history! The dome or water canopy was USED at theflood! it isnt there anymore. any one who actually reads the BIBLE WILL SEE THIS!! DANG CLERGY, DONT KNOW ANTTHING!
bluegrassreb1 9 months ago
@KoRnmunk00 Yes, it overlaps with engineering obviously, but my field is genetic technology.
Futureplanet 9 months ago
@KoRnmunk00 Ok, thanks for the positive reflection on the discussion. By the way, I studied biotechnology, have worked 20+ years in the field.
Futureplanet 9 months ago
Most certainly didnt meet the people who wrote the damn bible. So please stop trying to interpret for yourself wat u think the bible actually means.
jackskellington765 9 months ago
How the hell do these people know that the bible isnt supposed to be taken literaly?? They werent there wen the people wrote the books and they (bible scholars/theologians/etc)...
jackskellington765 9 months ago
@KoRnmunk00 Your mind is closed, because you will not accept that God may not exist. You will not accept that the bible could be just like all the other religious texts written throughout history. You don't need evidence of any of this, because you have faith. If you had evidence, you wouldn't need faith...it would be fact. But, instead you are required to have faith, and you do not accept any other possible conclusion. Thus, your mind is closed to the subject of God being a delusion.
Futureplanet 9 months ago
@KoRnmunk00 Ohh...touche! Yeah, like I don't understand religion in it's many forms and types, and as if I don't understand the closed minded mentality of those that follow one religion or the other. Sure, go on thinking there is something I don't understand. I'm the one continually reading, learning and accepting new information every day.
Futureplanet 9 months ago
@KoRnmunk00 Oh my god! Are you serious!?? It's a religious scriputure, they can write ANY story they like!!! They did LOTS of nice things that don't exist in the bible.....SO WHAT!! So WHAT that the bible has a story of Jesus. He is NO DIFFERENT to ANY other fictional character.
I can tell you about the deeds of THOR as written in their religious text, to prove THAT religious text as correct. You'd think I was delusional. As I think you are to pretend your religion is the only one right
Futureplanet 9 months ago
@KoRnmunk00 In the Hindu religion, Vishnu has the only deity to create the earth from a Lotus Flower. Is there some part of a religion which has a detail that another doesn't which gives it some sort of validity? So what that Christianity has a god with a Son? (and anyway, there are MANY MANY previous gods with sons. Like the Egyption god Horus. He was the son of God too, 2000 years before the fictional book of Jesus was written.
Futureplanet 9 months ago
I hate how almost ALL theists believe that the bible should not be taken literally JUST BECAUSE you would be considered insane in modern society for doing so. The bible was made thousands of years ago in a time when people had low knowledge of the world and gave the death penalty for just about everything. Of COURSE they would take the bible literally, and I believe everyone who doesn't is just giving an excuse for the madness written down inside of it
blazejames47 9 months ago
"Was the Bible Meant to be Taken Literally?"
Parts yes.
Other parts have much deeper value.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder It was written literally not metaphorically from ancient minds to ancient people with ancient problems and beliefs, It is ancient believers offspring that have to reinterpret some parts metaphorically some parts literally, or ignore some parts all together to try and make it 'fit' into reality. No where in the bible does it say ignore this part and listen to this part. The bible is proof there is no god. It's absurdities could only come from the mind of ignorant primitive men.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
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@mechanicmike69
"Our eyes bare witness to the grotesque spectacle coughed forth from the furthest corner of Xerxes empire."
Is this meant to be take literally?
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder It was when it was written. It is asses like yourself that try and morph it into some coherent meaning to fit into the reality of today's world.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
LOL!!!!!!
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder You would laugh, shows your ignorance. They believed back then. Evidently you don't. You laugh at there beliefs, yet don't understand why everyone laughs at yours. WTF? You are an atheist also, I just go one god further than you.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
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@mechanicmike69
"Our eyes bare witness to the grotesque spectacle coughed forth from the furthest corner of Xerxes empire."
Is this meant to be take literally?
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
The movie 300 was fiction.
Doesn't mean the Battle at the Hot Gate never took place.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder You never say a thing, You type away and nothing, I repeat, nothing ever comes out. Your god is make believe, and your belief pathetic.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
There you go again trying to run down all theists.
Are you seeing a therapist?
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder Can't you read? You are still typing nothing that makes a fucking difference. If I see your therapist I know it will be a waste of money. Your proof.
Paranoid schizophrenics hallucinate, believe in things which don't exist, show signs of delusional thinking and believe they are always being watched.
Nothing like you then.....lol
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Mike you have no way of knowing if I'm seeing a therapist.
To claim you do is a clear sign that you need help.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder For anyone that believes in the bible to go around and correct others facts and claims is the biggest show of hypocrisy there ever was. When you quit pushing the biggest fallacy, the biggest error, the biggest myth ever created, then maybe you can go around correcting others. Until then you are just another fucking hypocrite. A pompous ass who knows nothing more than trivia and can't even fathom the real world. You can't see the forest for the trees. Hypocrite! mathew 6; 5-7.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
That's right try to deflect.
You don't have the guts to see a shrink.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder For anyone that believes in the bible to go around and correct others facts and claims is the biggest show of hypocrisy there ever was. When you quit pushing the biggest fallacy, the biggest error, the biggest myth ever created, then maybe you can go around correcting others. Until then you are just another fucking hypocrite. A pompous ass who knows nothing more than trivia and can't even fathom the real world. You can't see the forest for the trees. Hypocrite! mathew 6; 5-7
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Post it again maybe you'll even convince yourself that way.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder Your delusion continues...
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
I'm not the one posting the same thing multiple times hoping that will make it true.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder Actually it's the fact that it is true that has you responding.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
oh sure.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder See... your delusion continues...
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
ooooooooh.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder It hurts, I know. reality is tough.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
to the point you can't understand it or even deal with it.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder Point", you talk about 'point' . I have a point. You on the other hand are just a pointless wandering depressed soul who needs a mate. Sex can do wonders for your insecurities. You won't need to have a warm and fuzzy being taking care of oyu, You'll have a nice warm human to snuggle up to, ah, reality. flesh.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Mike I hate to break your heart but I'm not into dudes or whatever you are.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder See what came out of your head, Religious thoughts of men having sex with men or maybe priests with chior boys, or maybe priest with preist. That's religion talking, I on the other hand hate religion and it's bullshit.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@ivlfounder Alistair McGrath is into dudes.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
The go bother him for a date.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder He only wants delusional fucks who believe in religious absurdities/invisible beings.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Don't be so hard on yourself.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder Don't worry about me I have a wife, kids, grand kids on the way and I am in full control of my faculties, you on the other hand thick an invisible being controls yours. You think an invisible being watches over you. I have procreated and full filled my meaning, my purpose in this world. You don't even know what yours is.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Yet you attack the sexuality of McGrath who is married to Joanna Collicutt McGrath?
Yeah right.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
@ivlfounder Do you ever get it? There you go off on a tangent again. Your whole statement doesn't make a bit of difference to my statement. You say nothing, your net out put is zero or a negative. You spin on a religious turntable never going anywhere.
mechanicmike69 10 months ago
@mechanicmike69
I know you accused McGrath of being into men to deflect attention from your hitting me up for a date.
ivlfounder 10 months ago
if they don't take it literaly it breaks down, but if you do take it literaly it makes testable claims about life, the earth, the universe that can be proven true or false. what this fellow is doing is called misdirection, its a political strategy to skate around dificult topics. creationists need to chose literal or symbolism, because it can't be both at the same time. if they chose literal, we prove them wrong, if they chose symbolism, then they need to keep there mythology to themselves
Ihatemelee 10 months ago
guy is gay.
MufcAnts 11 months ago
Fantastic video, open mindedness and if he spoke nearby I would go to church more. Pleasant to listen to.
MichaelFrostChicago 11 months ago
The bible is the worst item that exists to drive people to athiesm. A god that burn non-worshipers? Same strategy that Saddam Hussein and Hitler used. Not to mention the genocide, the rape, the killing and other ridiculous fairy tales. People believe it because the human mind is completely capable of believing these and much stranger things.
Futureplanet 1 year ago 12
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I like his approach.
Landen1185 1 year ago
Personally ,as a physician and currently undergoing psychoanalysis, i´d have to say that absolutely NO book is to be taken as a dogma.
AlexMD242 1 year ago
@AlexMD242 you've obviously never used a haynes manual then doc.......
weadone 1 year ago
@AlexMD242 you've obviously never used a haynes manual then doc.......
weadone 1 year ago
The bible is *very* obsolete....
langbei 1 year ago 13
Honestly, you have to believe that the Bible in divinely inspired words from God himself before you even begin to reason or debate anything about it. to do that you have to first accept that there is a God, there are absolutes, and He has a way he wants you to live.
Go read a book like Evidence that Demands Verdict (by Josh McDowell)
Then come back and see if you comment the same.
If you really want have an opinion that has weight to it...do your homework.
Fexer12 1 year ago
The speaker should have defined proof, and elaborated on how humble science is. Some people will take this to mean that it's reasonable to suggest that science doesn't have knowledge or proof of anything, let alone evolution. I hope that the speaker doesn't think one can over turn natural selection, heredity through dna, and other principles of evolution.
I hear people saying the bible is metaphor and poetry, but I don't see any consistency in this approach.
dookiecheez 1 year ago
The entirety of the bible, or ANY book of the god of Abraham is a book of feel good fiction not meant to be taken literally. That being said (and yes that does sound like a vapid attack on the bible). But it does also have some GOOD things in it. However i believe those good things were on accident. God is only there to explain the unknown. Any of those books have mixed and contradictory moral messages that can be proven as "good" by a 3rd grader these days. Even in a non-religious home.
Horathgar42 1 year ago
Science doesn't proves? off course it does! Science proves by experimentation that some facts are false and others true. It does happens that new discoveries may refute early scientific facts and in those cases the scientific community discards those facts and accepts the newly discovered ones. New books are printed and life goes on. When was the last time the bible was re edited?
emilianosantos1 1 year ago
@emilianosantos1
1611.
(textual criticism joke)
smartwarlord 1 year ago
Oh dear! Newton may be out of date but so too is the bible! How can an intelligent learned man be so silly? He sounds so plausible and clever but actually the man is talking nonsense. Adam & Eve don't exist, FACT, so No Original Sin and even if they did exist Homo Sapiens is not related to them. Not one drop of A&E in Homo Sapiens, so we are NOT GUILTY. Allegories are no use when it comes to criminal acts. No crime, no punishment but what would the Vatican do without Original Sin?
Euphobia1 1 year ago
'Science describes - not proves' - I'm afraid he might have underestimated his audience, every reasonable individual knows that the scientific method is about drawing up a hypothesis and then PROVING by means of experiment and observation in order to establish an objective scientific statement. This man is a soldier of Satan, hands down, the Holy See must be very proud to have such servants. I pray that this man will not lead any more souls to the lake of fire.
GundamizerFreedom 1 year ago
@GundamizerFreedom you were going so well, you used logic, common sense and made an educated argument- then you started in with the lake of fire and Satan stuff- all stuff of fiction and fools not hypotheses, proving and observation
mompm 1 year ago
This is abominable. This silver-tongued mocker is truly gifted when it comes to twisting the Scriptures. He is a razor-sharp master of deception, only such individuals are able to reach the upper echelons of the Jesuit Order. The Gospel is perfectly reasonable and logical, yet it is impossible to understand its logic by the means of the carnal mind - for that you need the guidance of The Holy Spirit of God that leads us to all truth. But Catholics do not teach repentance. May Jesus bless you.
GundamizerFreedom 1 year ago
@GundamizerFreedom Once again, i see a post I sincerely hope is very ironic.. Please tell me it is? I truly do feel that i would need some kind of awesome holy guide to be able to understand the bible. I mean what the ass? It's just CRAZY. Have you read it man? I mean, it's filled with logical misses on it's very FIRST PAGE. And it keeps being so, until it's ABSOLUTE LAST!
Najenin 1 year ago
@Najenin A sincere and humble seeker will be rewarded by Christ with understanding. A mocker will get nothing. It is God that runs this show, friend, not men. Emptying yourself from man-established preconceptions is first step to wisdom. I was once a person that ridiculed the Scriptures. I took God lightly. It was only after Jesus reached out to me that my eyes were opened. Do you honestly believe that 'science does not prove things, it describes'? Does it not strike you as a blatant LIE?
GundamizerFreedom 1 year ago
@GundamizerFreedom I think the bible strikes me as a blatant lie.
Najenin 1 year ago
This guy better not let USA Homeland security find out he believes in the Nephilim demon seed theory,lol/They may arrest him for being a suspected terrorist
User91919 1 year ago
Genesis doesn't say the earth is FLAT. It says that there is a firmament in the midst of the waters, and that the water above the earth which was kept in an equilibrium prior to the flood all precipitated during the flood which was why no one had seen rain before and why it terrified people so much. They had no idea what a flood WAS prior to Noah's day. This is typical banter from a Jesuit who has taken an oath to crush the heads of Protestant children against the wall. Read their oath sometime.
MentorOfMinos 1 year ago
This guy is full of BS. He obviously has a limited view of science and engineering.
aerhearts 1 year ago
If the RC church doesn't let science get in the way of taking the Virgin Birth and Resurrection of Christ literally, why does it have a problem with taking the Genesis account of creation literally?
quemacha 1 year ago
Catholics don't do Bible Studies! Lol! That expalins aLOT!
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
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TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
where does the shuttle go
rofl
niinja2 1 year ago
If he agrees that the bible is not to be taken literally then why does he and so many other believers believe what the bible says about Jesus? I think the Bible literalist are crazy but at least they do not pick and choose what is true and not true in the Bible. My wife thinks the Bible is flawed and written by man but believes the Jesus story. I ask her to explain how she can choose that part as truth but no answer. He mentions the Iliad & Oddsey as examples but no one claims they are true.
CandideNovella 1 year ago
@CandideNovella You fail to see that if someone takes the whole Bible literally they are simply wrong. I have much more respect for someone if they believe some parts of the Bible than all. If someone literally believes the Noah's Ark story and the 6 day creation story, they are just simply out of their mind. It's been proven otherwise.
bleedblue83 1 year ago
@CandideNovella you know they are some people who take the whole thing in allegorical context, see:- The Gnostics.
greenelf12 1 year ago
@greenelf12 Out of 106 colleges who form the "Christian Coalition of Colleges " only 5 teach Genesis litterally. All the others teach it is allegory in other words fantasy
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon Allegory and fantasy is not the same thing...
greenelf12 1 year ago
Does everyone know that the VATICAN, yes thast's right , the bloody Vatican has been putting in millions of dollars into research on ASTRONOMY. why because they know the truth really nexists in science and are just another money making institution that will Again conceal the truth from you or use it to profit from you yet again you christian sheep will pour your money into your chuches delusional teachings. Wake up slave race, which is what we were designed for in the past and used again future
markyaz1968 1 year ago
Jesus Christ as returned. I AM.
IAMJESUSmovie 1 year ago
@IAMJESUSmovie where are you???? I wana worship you and wash your feet!
91BROWNIE91 1 year ago
WOW. An atom has NEVER been seen. And it will never be. Because the light particle is is too big to bounce off an atom. Yet from calculations science PROVED it existed, split it and blew up Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Killjeser 2 years ago 3
pseudo-intellectual...
VarialProductions 2 years ago 2
yet another christain excuse to try and maintain christianities dominance on earth....why was it taken so literally back in the days it was written?...and now it is not.. because man has gotten smarter and things in the bible don't make sense anymore..so 'churches' need to find alternative interpretations to follow with the changing times...so now they say the bible wasn't meant to be literally taken. so I geuss God was just a riddle master and left the true meanings hidden in the text..yeah ok
James84x21 2 years ago
Have you ever read anything written by the Church Fathers of the first century, or Jewish interpretations which predated Christianity? If you have, then you'll know that what you said is not true. In fact, biblical literalism is an emergent interpretation that had it's beginnings in the mid 1800's in America and didn't fully take root until the early 1900's.
gambleor 2 years ago 2
If he thinks "The Odyssey" should be interpreted just like the bible... than why doesn't he take "The Odyssey" seriously as well, along with the koran, hadith etc...
"Science describes, it doesn't prove"
"i believe in absolute truth that creation...just as described in the bible"
By your logic...the bible describes therefore it doesn't prove, however you believe in the bible therefore in your mind it proves.
As Hitchens has said "simply White Noise!"
elasticbowman 2 years ago
Ur kind of odd
1McMurph 2 years ago
The Bible should be taken literally in its entirety. However, this does not mean literalistically, which is different. Taking the Bible literally does mean taking it literally, as well as metaphorically, analogically, and some others that I can't remember at the moment.
Wanda4DecentValues 2 years ago
@Wanda4DecentValues The bible says to kill homosexuals in Leviticus and kill Non-believers in Luke, yet Thou shall not kill?
It has to make sense to be literal
Killjeser 2 years ago 11
@Killjeser Should we take the bible as litral truth how could we explain thou shalt not kill as opposed to Exodus28:12 'TYou must not allow a witch to live'
How would that do down with the local police and judicial system if we took a gun to the local wiccan population.
jezzeronthecoast 1 year ago
I guess you just has to say that since Jesus died on the cross for the sins of man , believing in god gives me a freebie to do anything anti law wise
jipersson 1 year ago
@Killjeser Yes Exodus 20:13 is sometimes translated as thou shall not kill, but the Hebrew word is The verb רָצַח (ratsakh) which refers to the premeditated taking of the life of another human being; it is an unauthorized killing. Capital Punishment is not what this is talking about. Killing is not prohibited, Murder is. If you can ever imagine a justified war you first need to understand the difference between these two concepts.
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit The Bible is man made. Plain and simple. Nothing in it should be taken literal, or you'll go mad trying to make sense of it and come up with funny and ridiculous ideas.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@Killjeser There are countless Facts that testify to the Bible being more than merely a book written by men. One of these facts is that it contains countless prophecies that came true with 100% accuracy. We have copies of those prophecies that are hundreds of years older the events proving that they were written before hand, with other historical sources proving they came true. The Bible is scary at how accurate it is. Try reading "From God to Us" by Norman Geisler
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit How can you possibly say that. I read the bible. Yes all 66 books. Boring and contradictory as they are, what prophecies? Please show me.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@Killjeser well obviously there is a difference between reading and under standing. I already gave you a book full of evidence, but ill give you one example here. Isaiah 53:5-12 is one of many prophecies of the crucifixion. The septuagint LXX translation of the Old testament contains these prophecies and it dates to between 100 to 400 years before Christ. It actually even predates Crucifixion as a form of capitol punishment.
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit That just shows that whomever wrote the Old Testament tried to make it fit into the New Testament. The whole part of Jesus arriving atop two donkeys and then calling him Emmanuele are obvious mistranslations from old text. In the bible it says "and these things occurred so the prophecies can be fulfilled". If only the poor author would of had known that Emmanuele was referring to someone else. Don't believe me. Read Isaiah 7. No not a verse. The whole thing.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@Killjeser OK sure that would be a possible arugment you could make, bad grammer aside. However, there are over 300 prophecies that were fulfilled including things that were testified to by extrabiblical sources such as Josephus. Even if the New Testament writers tried to make it fit with the Old Testament, that doesn't explain how they described things like a crucifixion when no such thing existed yet.
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@Killjeser Look the simple fact of the matter is this. People don't truly reject God because the Bible is somehow lacking in authenticity. All of these arguments have been made for thousands of years and have all been answered over and over. There is more evidence to the validity of the Bible then there is the Albert Einstein ever existed. The truth is People reject God because they don't like what the Bible says about Him or more to the point they don't like what the Bible says about them.
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit I am sorry if I upset you. What I mean is that there are far more beautiful things to claim proof of the existence of God than a contradictory book full of bigotry and genocide.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@Killjeser But you see there isn't. Apart from a specific direct revelation where God himself tells us about who He is, there is no way to prove a creator exits, excluding conjecture. I will admit that even conjecture and observation of the Universe might lead you to believe in a creator, but you could never know anything specific about him unless He directly revealed himself to you. That is what the Bible is. It is His Revelation of Himself to us. Your characterizaiton of it is ignorant at best
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit What makes you think we know anything specific about Him now? With ALL the books all we have are different religions and One God. How many children have you stoned? How many gays have you killed? How many Atheist have you killed? How many people have you killed by working on the sabbath. Yeah, and my characterization is ignorant. But yours is enlightened cause you have a two way radio with God.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@Killjeser Do you know what a straw man argument is? You are arguing against the Bible because it teaches these things, when is does not. You have missed the point by taking verses out of their context. Scripture must be interpreted in light of ALL the scriptures. If you're going to arguing against Christianity then you need to address what Christians actually believe. Otherwise your words are meaningless and you prove yourself ignorant. I don't mean that as in insult. I'm just being honest.
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit Fair enough. I see your point. Tell horse breeders and dog breeders that whatever breeds they came up with was not due to evolution by trait selection but that God made it so. because in their eyes you will be the ignorant one. Tell doctors that it's not that the bacteria causing virus has become resistant to medication over time, it's that God made it stronger. Again you will be seen as the ignorant one. Everyone thinks they are right. But not everyone can prove it.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@Killjeser Seriously, again with the straw men? Christians don't deny the idea of evolution within a species. We only deny evolution as the source of new species or even as the primary source of life itself. Biology 101: A species is a group of animals that can produce fertile offspring. inherent in that deffinition is that if two animals can produce a fertile offfspring then they are of the same species. A mule for instance is infertile. Not a new species. There are NO new species, only less.
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit Oh okay. Now I see what you mean. You believe in evolution but not that men arrived from another ancestor. I get it.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit It still sounds abominable. Now matter how you dress it up, it's immoral and ridiculous. Killing someone because of their personal choice of whom they go to bed with or love, is tyrant behavior.
The more people talk to me about the bible, the more I notice that their faith is not in God, but in a graven image, an idol which they call the bible.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@Killjeser What your touching on here is very important Theological idea. More than likely you would also say that it is unthinkable to have the death penalty for telling a lie. Rebellion against God of any kind carries the death penalty. Of course Only God can carry out that execution or make the judgment. Mankind would have been immortal had he not begun rebelling against God. I understand that this is hard to accept, but this is the whole purpose of the Law God gave to the Jews; to teach this
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit I know you mean, Adam and Eve rebelled against God and that's why everyone dies. And them being ignorant about good and evil before the fruit does not exempt them from justice, even though they did not know they where doing something wrong. I get that part.
But why then, did Jesus preach against these ideas? I mean, assuming you read the bible cover to cover. He stopped an adulteress from being stoned and said not to kill a man working on the sabbath etc etc. against the law ...
Killjeser 1 year ago
@Killjeser The whole purpose of the Law was to show mankind that they are guilty before God. The problem is men tend to think that they are not guilty, only others are. So, they stand in judgment. Those are the one's Jesus scolded. The self righteous. The first step to being reconciled with God has to be recognizing your own guilt.
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
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@TheRockHobbit --The first step to being reconciled with God has to be recognizing your own guilt.-- Wasn`t that the way HE made us. What a wonderful god, blaming his creatures for the way he made them. And we should feel guilty about it. NUTS.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@TheRockHobbit --Rebellion against God of any kind carries the death penalty--- You are NUTS.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon Life carries the death penalty.
harvellt 1 year ago
@Killjeser It actually says not to commit MURDER: i.e. pre-meditated killing of a person. Killing in response to the committing of a crime is not murder, it is an attempt to prevent crimes from running rampant in a community. You can argue over whether or not you think homosexuality should be a crime, but clearly in the Jewish camp it was a crime. The Hebrew word in the 6th commandment is "ratsah", which means to murder or to "lie in wait to kill".
MentorOfMinos 1 year ago
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@MentorOfMinos It still sounds abominable. Now matter how you dress it up, it's immoral and ridiculous. Killing someone because of their personal choice of whom they go to bed with or love, is tyrant behavior.
The more people talk to me about the bible, the more I notice that their faith is not in God, but in a graven image, an idol which they call the bible.
Killjeser 1 year ago
@MentorOfMinos
as a Hebrew speaker, I'd also contribute 'kill in silence' - as that is more Semitic than "lie in wait to kill" (a Greco-Roman idiom)
smartwarlord 1 year ago
@Killjeser the Bible never says thou shall not kill... not once in the entie Bible if you look in the original hebrew/greek.... it says thou shall not murder.. which is a different thing... death was just merely the punishment for breaking the law...
goldyaaron 1 year ago
@goldyaaron LOL, its amazing how you guys just look to mold it to your own ideals. Its even worse to have death as a punishment for petty crimes A monstrous book, regardless. Obvious work of man.
Killjeser 1 year ago
Isn't not reading it literally just an excuse to continue believing?
Eastmanarium 2 years ago 3
@Eastmanarium Actually refusing to take the Bible literally is just an excuse to re-interpret it however they would like, disregarding the original author's intent. For The record I believe in taking it literally, but in its original context, and in light of the genre of the particular book, and in light of the scriptures as a whole. In other words a historical-grammatical hermeneutic
TheRockHobbit 1 year ago
I had the pleasure of watching his lecture when he came to Cornell University and talked to him briefly afterward. The Guy (no pun intended) is absolutely brilliant, plus he really knows his science (MIT grad).
cabbysmack2 2 years ago
love reading youtube comments everyone on it is an expert and knows everything about everything
duirling 2 years ago 28
just because the bible is 3000 years old does not make it fact.
It is contrived and hypocritical and is used to control and instill fear in the masses and very profitable way of selling a dream. The best MLC multi level company i have ever witnessed. fucking wake people wake up. g
od exists but not the way the assholes on earth represent god. they has bastersized the bible and its interpretaations, removed parts of it that would empower you.
markyaz1968 2 years ago
same here
jshullaw 2 years ago
this guy ios trying to compare the bile and einstien.
yeah right what a twat.
creationists are delusional fucking idiots,
markyaz1968 2 years ago
Fantastic point. Aligns with lots of psychological studies on predictable irrationality. People who live with blinders, totally focused on their little world of personal experience, will interpret everything else through that lens.
theseanze 2 years ago 2
watch this clip: atWoYsoTA4M
2009uzzi 2 years ago
Typical of Bible critics - Genesis nor any other book in the Bible, never says the earth is flat.
Thistlesifter220 2 years ago
Islam - 1
Chritian - 3 in 1, not 3 but 1, not 1 but 3 in 1, 1 in 3 and 3 in 1.
The choice is in your hand.
IsJehc 2 years ago
Luckily we have other civilizations like India, Chinese, Japanese, Eskimos... otherwise we don't know how we can proof they are wrong.
beancube2008 2 years ago
This gentleman is a Deist, and just barely.
WitnessofTheHolyOne 3 years ago
I assume you watched the entire video given in the link...
I'd say he's just a subscriber to liberal theology. That brand of theology is certainly not winning too many lay Christians over, but it has long been popular amongst priests, theologians and religious scholars. What he mentioned--God not existing, rather being the grounding of existence, and being suprapersonal rather than personal--remind me of Tillich. Claiming Jesus as symbol and taking his existence as irrelevant would complete it.
AtSwimTwoBricks 2 years ago
I was shocked, though, when he called the common believer a pagan. Though I agree with most of what he meant by it, I don't think he has any authority to call their Christianity false and his true. I would argue that he's a pagan as well, in fact even more so.
And by getting atheism wrong (by claiming that it requires an understanding of what the god is that's being rejected), I don't see him making too many friends on either side. Similarly in what he said about engineers, its truth regardless
AtSwimTwoBricks 2 years ago
I doubt atheists object to the claim they reject things when there is no proof. Most atheists indeed reject god because they DO understand what they are rejecting, the literal interpretation of god. I, as an atheist have studied what it is I don't find rational.
GottOngeloof 2 years ago
Of course. My beef is with the idea that a very good understanding is *required*. I personally reject a variety of gods for a variety of reasons.
Some are incoherent, some unsupported, some contradict what we see. Some understanding is required for these, but there are gods so poorly defined there's nothing I could accept if I wanted to. Not believing in such a god is almost forced upon me. And then there are the gods I simply know nothing about. I disbelieve precisely because I know nothing.
AtSwimTwoBricks 2 years ago
I find that all gods are poorly defined. I think the term god refers to a concept. I have my concept of what their god is, they have their own. This is fine with me unless they attempt to make me believe in their definition of god. I agree some people could call evolution god, or atoms god, or themselves god, but to me, god does not exist. These other things have a clearly defined explanation and I choose to rely on that definition.
GottOngeloof 2 years ago
So, whether someone worships something they cannot define, I don't care. Where I care is when they seek to make me worship it too. As Thomas Jefferson said, "Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than on our opinions in physics and geometry....The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
GottOngeloof 2 years ago