Re: On Privacy, Identity, and Celebrity

[LanceDirk]

I feel like the nakedness example is not so much a contradiction in her view but more the paradox of identity, and the way in which we know others. The clothes give other the sense of our identity we want them to have, while the nakedness in a sense is supposed to represent something that we can never really truly show. We can be as honest as possible, but to really let someone experience what we see as ourselves, being naked isn't enough, they have to actually be in our heads.

[ifwere1021]

Az, your last couple of videos have significantly piqued my interest in the decision making process behind language. Any suggested first reads?

[bickleschmickle]

I think it's pessimistic to say that there's no true self or that personal identity doesn't exist. Sure, I can't know myself like I know there is a rock in front of me, but I can and do know that I am a participant in a process I identify with: the unfolding and development of a human. Maybe this requires a leap of faith, but I'm willing to jump.

[StrangeGlobal]

Gah. I'm sooooooo slow! Finally found this gem of a channel at last. Great video too.

[Mjhavok]

8+ minutes just to tell a 19 year old girl that she should be naked. Efficiency is not your goal is it?

[ManOfEthnicity]

Nice Wilder quote thrown n there.

All of us from celebrities to average Joes like myself need to put up these barriers of false personalities to be taken seriously half the time, sometimes just to be accepted by the general public. Often we don't know that we're doing it.

[ShortbusMooner]

I'm sure we don't see the real selves of celebrities, very often. As far as YT, I'm real, but I shun celebrity (as you can tell). I just live vicarilously through the rest of you brave & creative souls! LOL!

[KGBRAND]

Does anyone remember the movie altered states? The search for the real truth... May end up in the toilet. What is real.. Is Jeff real when he speaks? Jeff want's to find the fucker... Just like the main character in altered states... He does not know who the fucker is. Because there is none. Jeff needs to be Jeff. You need to be you. Jeff's problem.. Is that he takes himself too literal... At times. Jeff is so smart.. And dumb in other ways... I still love you man!

[InfectedDaemon]

So... your hitting on her?

[azrienoch]

You're the only one that really gets me. ;)

[johncrwarner]

I am not yet convinced that there is something core or there that is real - the true self - the naked self - but that we are a complex system of interactions, remembered interactions and learnt behaviours. Oscar Wilde was famous for his quips at the dinner table but when people met him afterwards often he would be unresponsive to them - both are acts one the salon wit and the other a quiet bookish person - he needed both of them so that he could be Oscar Wilde. He was not one or the other.

[mynui]

You basically seem to be saying that public image is simply a struggle of or endured attritional manipulation of ideologies.

Our desires and opinions that form our ideals that shape our manipulations are developed from our interactions with our environment, which includes other people naked or not.

How we interact and form these manipulations is down to our "internal compass", formed from every manipulation of our environment we've allowed - which is pulled by the strong ideals of the moment.

[Enleuk]

How do we differentiate between the "internal compass" (the self) and environmental influence? Chemically the body and it's environment are not separated, it's all connected, we are a non-distinct part of the universe.

Using the Oscar Wilde example, where do we draw the line between these two personalities? Why not 1 identity or an infinite amount of traits that separately or in groups could be used to verbally define attributes of an identity or an entire/several identity/-ies?

[Maeldasage88]

Offtopic: I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE AT THE END OF THE VIDEO !! lol

Ontopic: Well, I think clothing has the 'stamp' of your identity into it. Only that It is the ''you'' that you show to everyone else, so you're careful with your choices. Kind of like a resume. Videos, imo, are like that. That ''shield'' is basically your refined, criticism-proof (or criticism-forged?), version of yourself. And It's good. I mean, being so permeable would probably destroy your feelings in no time.

[Trollschool]

Well Azzy, the girl does have a long way to go before he encounters menopause. Before then she is in fact grounded to the earth in a way that men aren't, since she might be bearing chillin's. The rest of us can spew semen and words.

Identity should be a social process. If we can't make that happen, then the world is our graveyard.

[awerner2007]

Dynamic things are hard to pretend to know.

[Yzsaakc]

Tracy Morgan did the most genuine interview anyone has ever done on Fresh Air yesterday and I still find him to be a wonderful enigma.

[santiagodevill]

Hmmm.... that's a grate point!

[TheAist]

ive never heard a concept that identity is non-existent. thanks for giving me something to think bout. i'd say im pretty hardcore about identity. kool video.

[dospook]

I didn't even have to see the first 10seconds of her video and I knew that you L**ed her.

Then your video. Oh such a cry. the army. that leggy. lol

It ended sweet.

And thnx for the diatribal talk

[azrienoch]

hehehehehehehe

[peace97914101]

You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis.

"You're the all-singing, all-dancing ravers of the world. ~Fight Club

[peace97914101]

Jackpot. I Agree with the two comments below.

[awerner2007]

Wow, we are two brilliant fucking individuals. That fact society has not recognized this just shows how insane everyone else is.

[awerner2007]

The two comments above were created by the two doucheiest self-loathing individuals to plague the earth. And, they couldn't be further from the truth.

[cardellacole2]

the higher self knows time but is not of time , knows sense but is not of sense , knows form but is not of form ,is sub conscious sub atomic has apparitions,bright as day knows particles but is of wave , ... the lower self is of time but knows not time , is of sense but knows not sense, is of form but knows not form is conscious and atomic has visions black as night, knows wave but is of particle

[cardellacole2]

the true self is the oneness of consciousness , the all seeing , I , in the light of unity, in itself above as below the light of thought in personality , love is the force that holds wave and particle together

[azrienoch]

I doubt it.  But then, I'm just listening to myself speak.

[cardellacole2]

the thought that thought of dreaming and the dream that dreamt of thinking is the oneness of consciousness , listen to it speak

[cardellacole2]

you say you are just listening to yourself speak or is this a facade or a just a product of your discourse which as you say has no identity, so shouldnt you be honest and tell determineninz that you are just listening to yourself , so can there be no love without identity , or are you now naked and so in love

[azrienoch]

Actually, you say that I like listening to myself speak. You said this while I was listening to you. Ironic? Interesting? Maybe, but more importantly, it's flippant.

[cardellacole2]

you gave me that impression , no flippancy intended on my part

[cardellacole2]

consider this , it is the photon that penetrates the neutron envelope , it is the neutrons magnetic moment that travels into the photon and experiences time as dimensional distance travelled a mergence of thought dream energies in a precipitated atomic flux of polarized dream state electrons and protons forming centered thought formations in a nural sea of diatomic currents forming into a coalescence of molecules of living matter recombining into cell structures that form living organisms

[speakman7]

that was pretty deep, Marlon Brando shit.

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

Jeff, I've been scavenging psychology research for the past year trying to find research into the topic of "compartmentalization", which I would define as the separation of aspects of our lives into separate compartments with contextualized identities. I have found very little in the way of scientific study, and I wonder why...

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

Secondly, I've been studying the research on facial expressions and what they mean. On that subject, I've been intrigued by the fact that educated actors are extremely good at manipulating their expressions to appear real. Vocal tone as well. Then I began to wonder how actors are able to compartmentalize themselves into realistic characters that are not who they are in real life. There is a conundrum here I can't quite verbalize, but I feel there's a gaping hole in science about it...

[PianoIsTheRemedy]

Thirdly, the recent explosion of online interaction has led to a blurring of identity, compartmentalization, and manufacturing of identity in ways we could not have imagined 10 or 20 years ago. I think this kind of discussion is prescient and will accumulate in the coming years. Sorting out a "real" "core" identity from a persona or "contextualized self", in my opinion, is going to be crucial as we become even more dependent on our online selves.

[Mjhavok]

Can you define what "contextualised self" actually means?

[Mjhavok]

You should write to a few psychologists or social scientists and ask them.

[Nimnoms]

I don't think celebrities are misrepresented, since its the judgment of others that define their identity anyway, for what is identity but what others attribute to us. If there is a problem (Britney Spears) then maybe it's from the conflicting nature of how people judge them. "I am whatever you say I am" -- Eminem

[peace97914101]

Or is it maybe that I do not define the word Naked the same way as you define naked?

[peace97914101]

The Employee is the Customer.  Or is it The Customer is the Employee?

[cardellacole2]

ah so you like the sound of your own voice eh ?

[gratex]

"everybody else" is an identity innit

[determineninz]

why do I keep getting this sense that the "me" I am presenting, the "me" that enters into daily conversation is not the real me? I feel that I'm never expressing myself in the exact way I'd like to. I'm not really sure who the "real me" is... whether it's the way I respond to this person, or to that person, or the way I am when I am alone.

[determineninz]

And yet, it seems to me that when I'm not conscious of being observed, when I'm alone, this is the only time when social norms are not at play and where I can be entirely...myself, I guess. I feel like I'm not constantly striving to become something else, or putting on a facade.

I do think that ratings/comments on person's videos does affect how I view the video, which is somewhat disturbing.

[determineninz]

Maybe a real "me" doesn't exist.. still, I feel that at least I can have some sort of control of it. People who are more famous, it feels like they've lost control/handed control over to other people and let others manipulate their identity for them.

Maybe I just need to feel that I need to be able to control who I am/how I come off as. I have a lot of doubts about this, of course... loved your video. I feel like I can't find the words to describe exactly how I feel, dammit langvage.

[determineninz]

Maybe you're right...

We become the person that the conversation leads us to be.. because we have no identity. Maybe. Rawrgh. I probably do just want to be a special little snowflake and for everyone to be naked.

You're so pomo azzy. I'm mostly jealous.

[gratex]

We never become :P

[LanceDirk]

...others, is not even generated by yourself. "You" can only be known by the actions and thoughts you generate, and so your idea of you lies in some induction of what distinguishes you from other people and what your tendencies are, which then influences your thoughts and actions. The very fact that things you think are influenced by your own perception of yourself is enough for me to conclude there isn't a fundamental self, only a shifting conceptual one. I mean, the self is an idea, right?

[Nimnoms]

Because there is no real you. Contrary to what dating profiles on e-harmony suggest we can be both honest and dishonest, patient and impatient. You are never 'one' person at anytime.

[LanceDirk]

I think the common thing for people to think of who their identity is is that little voice in their heads. I know that's how I imagine myself at least. But remember, that voice is... in our heads, therefore whatever we represent outwardly- physically- is not that. We may say what we think, but then, aren't we just kind of imitating ourselves? Considering that people don't see us as we see ourselves anyway, then your identity, which is commonly recognized to be influenced by the perception of...

[Tinplz]

On Facades:

Part of me wants to believe that the more we hop into our personae, our core self is altered. Maybe only slightly- If we're conscious of the change we make, it's reasonable to assume that we fear what happens when we don't.

The other part, however, has had the opportunity to have intimate conversations with a few youtubers, and I realize... Wow. These people are incredibly different than how they present themselves. It's not difficult to separate the two personalities.

[Tinplz]

On Identity:

I agree. The nature of consciousness renders all perceptions of identity subjective, and thus, fallible. The only identities we can know are our own- EVEN THEN, the perceptions of ourselves are subjective.

Quite frankly, If we all remained "real", We'd all hate each other.

[Tinplz]

On Nakedness:

... Yes please :D

[premed2]

There is no singular identity, we are too complex for such a simplification. There are degrees of authenticity (loosely, a measure of how much information of a personal nature is revealed) which may be employed both to protect the psyche and to facilitate discourse. More or less authenticity is not good or bad—depends on the context. But enough of this BS, from now on you will always be Little Burpie to me, that is, as long as you keep your clothes on. ;)

[azrienoch]

Awesome.

[tomfrankly]

my language clearly changes depending on who i speak to, but my core values and ideas don't change. aren't those what make up identity? if someone had an exact clone of themself with the same language but different ideas, you would know which one was the real one.

[azrienoch]

Nah, I think that's (what I called in my book) a grammatical setting. If, say, you completely changed your values one day, perhaps because you're angry or something, someone might say, "You're not yourself today," but they're not sitting there wondering if some clone with different values walked in the door. They're saying you changed. This is a contextual thing, as I said in the video.

[bfrosty83]

I wonder how often the socially constructed "identity" and the looking-glass self bleed over even in to our private lives I would agree that there is no identity. There is only our continually evolving self - private or public - it is the same.

[outofsteplv]

Nice shirt, hah. Perception is intriguing isn't? To bad people can't just be comfortable with themselves and all could be "naked" I think? Idk.

[crazycrazycaleb]

I think I'll just start telling everyone that they need to be naked. haha

[mahyarmohaghegh]

isnt it that what is thought of you and what you think of yourself are in a position of aufhebung:

the character 'azrienoch' is the medium of which the proccess of 'getting to know' of aziernoch takes place. (through an external and internal attention at the desire of both Jeff himself and the audience of azrienoch)

so again going back to the hegelian jargon, IS this method of lets call it alienation the only way of approaching some sense of self-consciousness.

[jeffsmithluedke]

I don't know. I think self-consciousness is a worthless endeavor.

[mahyarmohaghegh]

so hence to be truely self-conscious is to not give self-consciousness a positive appearance, or to say being self conscious is not really a desire but a fetish. I guess the thing I'm hiding from saying is what is the necessity of it being worthless.

[MCRROX100]

awesome

[DirectionsPlease]

Hm, should I keep watching this, or should I watch the part 1 & 2 first. Interesting decision....