Quick Question For EvidenceMinistries: "Since your t-shirt is copyright infringement of Tommy Hilfiger's logo, could he sue God? And would HE forgive him for doing so? And if the lawsuit was successful, would that make Mr. Hilfiger guilty of sacrilege?"
When your child is growing, he learns as he grows.God does not INSTANTLY teach us EVERYTHING. It is a GRADUAL learning. New bible truths, further understanding, is revealed to us. Jesus Christ was revealed GRADUALLY,OVER HUNDREDS AND EVEN THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE HE ACTUALLY CAME TO THE EARTH. God has his way of doing things, he reveals truths, and teaches his people over T-I-M-E. God told Daniel to seal up the book,and wait until the time of the END to reveal it-Daniel 12:4.LEARN
When we look at the Bible we see that the number 7 is God's divine number. It signifies perfection and completeness in God's eyes.
Currently there are over 7 million people soon to be in number 7,777,777 (7x7) who are a witness (7 letters) about God's name Jehovah (7 letters) who obey Jesus and "Preach the Good News of the Kingdom" (7 words) and the word Kingdom is 7 letters!!
I really don'y know how much clearer I can be. 1)You are put more emphases on the door to door preaching than is implied in the Bible. I did not say that it was wrong in itself.
TheRealTruth1914 1)Not only do we "put more emphases on the door to door preaching" but we also emphasize on preaching period. What is the problem? Are you against Jesus words "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come" Matt 24:14. I dont see your point.
Defend, I can not be more specific than I have stated. The WTS puts the METHOD of door to door ministry as a mandatory obligation to have god's approval! This is why you go to meetings that repeat the same information at every meeting, it is because you have a hard time grasping information!
TheRealTruth1914 I would agree with this statement "The WTS puts the METHOD of door to door ministry as a mandatory obligation to have god's approval!" but I would also add the WT states its mandatory obligation TO PREACH. Would it be safe for both of us to agree on that point?
Defend, Yes I agree with preaching but without the pressure of reporting hours and magazines placed. As an elder I would have to encourage many to put more effort in magazine placements even though most of them dedicated well over 20 hrs a month. Makes you wonder what was more important to the WTS, hours or literature?
TheRealTruth1914 I would agree placing magazines and hours does a play a part. Im not against it or for it. But I do understand it, as an organization the Brothers want to keep track how much production needs to be made with magz and what territories need to be covered.
2) You said "Russell made more than one prediction that failed". Again, he didnt make predictions he had wrong interpretation of Scriptures he said "We have never claimed inspiration nor prophetic vision. All that we have ever claimed is that "Wonderful things in the Bible we see," and that the dearest is the love of the Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Lord Jesus, and that the time for the establishment of the Kingdom is very nigh." —1914; "The Watch Tower", May 1, 1914 pg. 134.
TheRealTruth1914 Your statement "false predictions or wrong interpretation still means the same conclusion= the words did not originate with GOD!" OK I can agree with that. But what is your point? Did the prophets and apostles have "wrong interpretation conclusion= the words did not originate with GOD?" Peter sure did interpret Jesus words wrong and made a so called false predictions according to you. Read John 21:20-23.
Peter made a claim "that that disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die" And what happened? "In consequence, this saying went out among the brothers". Peter wasnt called a false prophet for misinterpreting Jesus words.
Defend, Peter did not predict anything, unlike the WTS, they made many specific predictions with specific dates. Plus they claim it wasn't made with their efforts but it was from God's direction.
TheRealTruth1914 Peter did predict "this saying went out among the brothers, that that disciple (referring to John) would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die". What was the prediction? Peter predicted That disciple would not die. But "Jesus did not say to him that he would not die". This is referring to Jesus coming
Defend, yes the disciples made mistakes but the WTS claims to be God's mouth piece, God's ONLY channel to mankind and cover their mistakes with the "new light" excuse.
TheRealTruth1914 I do believe JWs are Gods people and you are right with respect to your comment "cover their mistakes with the "new light" excuse". I do believe in the new light but there are times when we just made mistakes and we shouldnt call it new light. I would agree with you on that point.
lchiddle You said "The Watchtower CONSTANTLY stubble" that is correct and we acknowledge that and make adjustments. However, main stream Christianity or so called Orthodox still doesnt have simple concepts correct. For example, Jesus said "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves."—John 13:34, 35. And yet we still see so called Christians killing one another in war. JWs seem to follow these simple concepts
Jesus also said there would be many false teachers and prophets. Wolves in sheeps clothing. Would you class all Germans as Nazis?
In God's eyes lying is just as much a sin as murder, yet the WTS quite happily vindicate "Theocratic War Strategy." Jesus said, "let your yes be yes, and your no be no."
The difference is Jehovah's Witnesses say they are the only true Christian. The WTS have made statements such as "come to the Organization for salvation," yet this organization flip-flops over and over and over again on the same topics, hardly "adjustments," more like too many cheifs. The WTS is run by men not God. You don't see such "adjustment" within the Christian scriptures.
You talk of love, but I see very little genuine love from JW's. Sure there's love from one JW to another JW (very cultish by the way, it's called love bombing), but anyone leaves the organization and suddenly this so called "love" quickly dissolves into nothing if not worse.
Ur comment re: JW type of love is right one! if u are not one of them or leave the organization, then their love becomes "conditional" rather than true "agape" love. God bless u.
i like this comment. ur emphasis on how the WTS sez "come to us" "the Organization"...whereas, Jesus said "come to Me".."follow Me". Not a man-made run organization.
Unfortunately their are tares among the wheat and in Romans 2 the Jews' hypocrisy is the reason God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles. This however, does not paint a general picture for the born again church body. Their are indeed Christians practicing that very verse you quoted and some that stumble with it but thankfully as 1st John states we have an advocate in case we fail to keep his commandments.
Another thing I would like to point out is, based on your theory that obedience to their beliefs = true religion, wouldn't Islam be a valid candidate? Or maybe Mormons? 2 or even 3 can't be right at the same time.
d ,ur basic consepts r good bt becos u don`t believe in the only true Jesus of nazereth and His physical victory over death ur still in ur sins and will never realize eternal life.
pls tell me y jw`s don`t believe in Jesus of nazereth bt rather in jesus of the wts?
3) When you comment on the WT study, when you answer the question that the conductor asks, do you reapeat the whole paragraph that the brother just finished reading? No, you pull out the points and make your comment simple and to the point.
If I would make up a false statement and mixed it with a true statement then it would be half truth. I did not do this, you are continuously wrongfully accusing, assuming and judging me. I am quoting the WTS words and telling my experience as a former JW, nothing more. I do not promote any religion or belief. You and the other JW' have a hard time accepting the fact that not all will agree with the WTS teachings.
TheRealTruth1914 Your statement "If I would make up a false statement and mixed it with a true statement then it would be half truth" That is not necessarily true. What I meant is you didnt tell the whole story respect with Franz on what he meant with his statment. He did say "Jehovah is the editor of the WT" but thats where you concluded misleading people thinking he is saying the writers were possessed or inspired by Jehovah to write the WT.
TheRealTruth1914 The only point I was bringing up is what you left out thats all. You were trying to make a big deal about a statement, I was clarifying that statement what Franz. You are the guilty one for trying to me Franz look bad base on a statement that you could have clearly clarified.
Defend, you said I state half truths because I did not include the whole interview with Franz. What is the purpose to repeat the whole thing? I quoted the main point that I needed, just as you do when commenting at a WT study.
TheRealTruth1914 The WT clarifies when its making a point. You made a point regarding a statement Franz said, but you didnt quote all the way to clarify what he meant. In the scholarly community they have a term for that. Its called intellectual dishonesty, and that is what you are guilty of. If I was to ask you what did Franz mean by his statement how would you reply?
Defend, what Franz is also guilty of is back pedalling as you continually do when you are up against the wall. Honestly, Franz really believed that God was the editor. It is supported with all his writings. He was avoiding any blasphemous charges against him and the society. This is reasonable and only human.
Are you really that numb headed? Door to door as the Witnesses do. What do you not understand? Why are you taking this out of context and making it something else and avoiding the main point?
TheRealTruth1914 Tell me exactly what am I taking out of context and "making it something else and avoiding the main point?" I dont understand can you expand on your comments? By this comment I dont know who wouldnt be "numb headed". Your too vague.
According to you I state half truths. If that is true, then I'm one up ahead of you. all you do is try to justify all your own assumptions and ideas. Your comments are totally ridiculous. You should really take a break and do some serious studying.
TheRealTruth1914 I think you need to read my comments carefully. I dont even know what your beliefs are so your comment "According to you I state half truths. If that is true, then I'm one up ahead of you" its clear what I meant. The example you gave about 1914, Door to Door, and especially the court case with Franz situation. Those are the half truths I was referring to.
TheRealTruth1914 With respect to your comment "do some serious studying" I try. But I think the same applies to you becuz you dont even have the apostate argument correct with the Pyramid. The apostate complaint is they falsely say Russell got 1874 from the pyramid NOT 1914, get your facts straight next time and "do some serious studying".
Poconoporker You asked "He used pyramidology, isn't that 'spiritism'?! absolutely not. Pyramidology is a term used, sometimes disparagingly, to refer to various pseudoscientific speculations regarding pyramids, most often the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. All claims of pyramidology are regarded as pseudoscience by the scientific community at large, who regard such hypotheses as sensationalist, inaccurate and/or wholly deficient in empirical analysis and application of the scientific method.
Spiritism is a belief in the existence of spirits - non-physical beings that live in the invisible or spirit world - and the possibility of communication between these spirits and living people through mediumship. The two are very different in fields of study and they dont relate.
TheRealTruth1914 Your adding words to my statement, I never said "measuring the pyramids is not wrong" I just corrected poconoporker when he asked "He used pyramidology, isn't that 'spiritism'?! When they are 2 different fields. No one would consider Astrology the same thing as Astronomy. But you can consider pyramidology a form of Archeology.
Defend, I said Russell was a mason, you said the pyramid was used as a secondary support, I said it was used to predict dates, you avoided the subject by correcting the date, someone said he was a spiritualist, you said it's not the same as pyramidal, etc... let's just drop this subject, it's going no where fast.
TheRealTruth1914 I didnt avoid any of your questions. With your false accusation saying Russell was a Mason I actually contradicted you by Russells own writings Ill repeat "This is what Russell himself said "I
have NEVER been a Mason" June, 1913; Convention discourse "The Temple of God"("Convention Report Sermons" pg. 362) And many other articles that he wrote denying he was a Mason 1908; Convention Question Meeting ("The Question Book" pg. 318), 1904 "The New Creation", pp. 580-581,
Zion's Watch Tower, June, 1895, pg. 143, etc. But of course who cares despite the evidence people just like the Rumors and like "their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3; Do your remember now?
1) I said Russell used the pyramids for his calculation of 1914, but the date of 1914 originated with Brown. I was pointing out that the 1914 date was USED by someone else before Russell, not that Russell got his date from Brown!
TheRealTruth1914 You are correct you did say "Russell used the pyramids for his calculation of 1914" but you are wrong he didnt get 1914 from the pyramid, the pyramid has nothing to do with 1914, again your confusing the date1 874, and NO he didnt get the date from the pyramid. I Already contradicted you on that point. You didnt elaborate what your point was regarding 1914 originated with Brown so I only assumed what your point was. Thats what you get when you dont CLARIFY.
2)It was not neccessary to quote the whole court case. The lawer asked if Jehovah is the editor of the WTS and Franz said YES. If he meant differently, he should have said it rather than changing his words when he was asked again. The point is, he said Jehovah is the editor!
TheRealTruth1914 Through context of the court case it was it was clarified what they meant about "Jehovah is the editor of the WTS"; Again, everything they write is biblical based its not based on the Quran, the Book of Mormon, or any other so called holy book. That is the part you seem to leave out and you are guilty for telling half truths.
Its like when Jesus told his disciples to eat his flesh, people were stumbled by that I didnt give Jesus a chance to clarify. This is EXACLTY what you are doing here. HALF TRUTHS
3) I implied? No, YOU implied. Yes the Bible does speak of HOUSE TO HOUSE, but DOOR TO DOOR as JW's do it (in a consecutive mannar) is not mentioned in the Bible. I also said preaching is preaching and house to house is not the primary method used by Jesus and his disciples. I never EXCLUDED house to house. Go back and read the comments.
TheRealTruth1914 The problem you have is semantics. When it says house to house didnt those houses have doors, most likely? Jesus gave specific instructions to go to peoples doors, of course its in important. YOU need to go back and read the comments becuz your making the same argument. My response was "When you go to strangers houses its implied. You arent seriously arguing the exact term "door to door" needs to be stated in order to preach at peoples homes are you?
Defend, You have illegally obtained an unauthorized copy of an elders hand book. One point for you in Jehovah's book of life. Great going, keep it up!
TheRealTruth1914 Your bringing up an irrelevant point (typical) for the 3rd time: The question was "reference 1 page "on how to control the flock or mind control " or are YOU confusing council with controlling people and mind control? Do you understand the difference?" The Elders are loving people and they CANT force people to do anything, they just give council. You talk too much with out ANY EVIDENCE
All my questions were answered with absurd responses by you. I also have counter acted. Why do you avoid answering my questions? Why do you hide by jumping to different sites?
You mean absurd responses like you THOUGHT C.T. Russell got 1914 from a pyramid? Then you contradicted yourself saying he got it from John Aquila Brown ? Or how about when you implied "door to door" is not biblical then you changed you mind saying "I did not say preaching to homes was excluded". You just keep contradicting yourself, but is that what you mean about "with absurd responses"?
Or how about his one "The WTS says Jehovah is the editor of the WT, but claim that they are not inspired" But you didnt quote the whole court case on what Franz meant. Like I said half truths. Are these the "absurd responses" that you are talking about? Thus so far youve been telling half truths and misapplied scriptures ALL your complaints have been counter acted already.
TheRealTruth1914 You asked me "Why do you hide by jumping to different sites?" I dont even understand the question. How am I hiding when Im always in back of you counter acting your false accusations? I honesty dont even know what mean. I think you are confusing me with someone else.
Thank you for you honesty. So the WTS uses non anointed individuals to write their publications. What happened to the faithful discrete slave theory?
So now you know what Franz was thinking when he said that. Sure you can use others as examples of lying under oath, so what does that make Fred Franz?
You appear to know something about logical fallacies. Don't try a fast one here, brother.
Clinton's and GW's false statements in no way make Franz's false statements acceptable. Moreover, at least Clinton admitted he was wrong. Still holding my breath to hear the WT EVER say "WE WERE WRONG" Ain't gonna happen...
Why did you delete your comment? "This is not true, because you can read them online. Not very secret or mind controlling."?
Once I resigned as an elder, I had to hand over this book, because it was the WTS property. ONLY elders should have and use this book. If you have a download of this, then you have obtained it illegally because the WTS has never authorized the release of said publication.
Being organized does not mean a man made controlled Organization. What did Jesus tell his disciples before leaving? Who would come in their mists? No mention of a religion or an organization. Stop assuming and stick the the Scriptures. It is not a mystery, it does not have hidden messages, read it for what it is without assuming!
Steve, You say that "I expect our beliefs to be wrong now." If the Watchtower is wrong about God, and if Jesus said that eternal life is "knowing the true God, and Jesus Christ," then does that not mean that the Watchtower does not have eternal life?
You said earlier, "I love bashing opposers to JWs, that is more fun because I am right." Yet you just now said you probably aren't right. So how can you be right, if you expect to be wrong? Or are you wrong about being wrong? Or right?
I stated that we are not so prideful to not accept correction and to believe that we are absolute. He who is standing, beware he may fall.
But I am more right than any opposer because the Bible is clear on the difference between you and us. You are without faith, we have faith. That is what it is all about.
evidence ministries is correct. this new light" is the problem with JW's theogoly - it's an "EVER CHANGING TRUTH" & actually is a lie. u said "the bible is clear on the difference between you and us" - it sure is. We have the TRUTH...THE BIBLE..& WE HAVE FAITH IN JESUS (WHO IS THE TRUTH - John 14:6) & THE BIBLE..u my friend have placed ur faith in an organization & it's publications that tell how to interpret THEIR OWN BIBLE which has also been changed. bible scholars reject the NWT.
You don't have the truth because you don't believe in Jesus. You don't believe he is the son of God who takes the sin away and is king of the kingdom. That has not changed and will not.
What you are referring to is not relevant to anything.
u should designate who ur speaking to on this channel.
re: ur comment that Christians don't believe in Jesus...how do u figure? WE ACTUALLY USE "HIS NAME" IN WHAT WE CALL RSELVES, FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST, THUS WE R CALLED "CHRISTIANS" AS THE BIBLE DOES (ACTS 11:26). U SAY WE DON'T BELIEVE IN JESUS...WELL, NOT UR JESUS, WHICH IS A FALSE JESUS. I BELIEVE IN THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE. I AGREE WITH U THAT HE TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD & IS THE "KING OF KINGS & LORD OF LORDS" REV. 19:16.
"Where did I say anything about the Watchtower?" Umm....let's see...JW's...Watchtower....Yeah, no connection there, huh?
The way you present yourself is very clever. You claim to be the only one that is correct here. You claim that we don't have the truth. You say that you are more correct than we are. Yet on the other hand, you say that you don't know the truth. If I didn't know better, I'd almost think I was talking to a Mormon.
Steve, when you say "We" who exactly are you referring to? Are you talking about JW's? The only ones who are right...except when they're wrong...although even when they're wrong, they're right....Because they're LESS WRONG than anybody else...even tho they don't claim to be right...Wow, can't argue with that.
It sounds like you're saying that if we don't believe what JW's believe, we're not saved. Sounds like you put more faith into what the WT teaches than what the Bible says.
I say that since Jehovah God is the only one who knows the truth (not even Jesus does), then to say that we can have many things wrong is quite humble, which follow the model of Jesus.
He knew only what his Father Jehovah gave him. The same with us. But we have much more that he has not yet given us, yet to learn.
Jesus "doesn't know the truth?" I guess that means He doesn't know Himself, because He said, "I AM the Way, THE TRUTH..." (Jn 14:6). He also said WE would know the truth. "If you abide in My Word, YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH..." (Jn 8:31-32).
So, in what should we abide? Jesus' words? Or Watchtower teachings? And don't insult our intelligence with the whole "The WT is just a printing company" line. We all know better. The Watchtower is the governing body of the JW's.
For example, if all the Watchtower Society did was to print the New World Translation, then who did the translating? Yes, that would be the Watchtower Society. And who decides what goes into the Watchtower and Awake! magazines? Yes, that would ALSO be the Watchtower.
So, the question is which should we believe? The WTS, whose beliefs are ever-changing? Or the Word of God, which never changes. I'd rather trust the Bible.
The governing body is composed of 9 people. The Watchtower is a magazine that is written by many not on the governing body. The GB just oversees the writing of it.
The WTS has several thousand working there. The GB just work there.
So, the Governing Body tells the WTS what to say, and the WTS in turn passes it onto the masses. Thus, the hair is split.
Of course, the Governing Body--who is supposed to be the channel Jehovah is using to communicate--is "probably wrong" (your words) about what they believe.
Makes one wonder.....if they are "probably wrong" (your words) about the "little things", how can a person trust them on the bigger things (who God is, who Christ is, salvation, etc)?
Lol. You're not bible based your Watchtower interpretation based.
Even the Watchtower says that you only came to belief you have because you read the Watchtower's publications.
No one has ever come to the same beliefs as JW's (which ever era of "truth" that maybe) without Watchtower publications. Yet, millions throughout the ages have come to the same core beliefs held by those of mainstream Christianity all over the world that allow the Bible to interpret the Bible rather than men.
Well, then I guess this would be one of those places where the WTS was "wrong":
"We all need help to understand the Bible, and we CANNOT FIND THE SCRIPTURAL GUIDANCE WE NEED outside the 'faithful and discreet slave' organization,'" (Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981).
Obviously, the WTS doesn't think anyone can understand the Bible without the WTS teaching them. So, then, the JW will "come to the same conclusions" because that is what they have been taught to believe.
"These anointed overseers [the Watchtower] SERVE AS THOUGH BEING GUIDED in their activities BY THE RIGHT HAND OF CHRIST..." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1969, p. 51).
Hmmmm...if the WTS is an "anointed overseer", who anointed them? And if they are "guided by the right hand of Christ," then how could they be wrong about ANYTHING?
"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" CAN ONLY BECOME KNOWN THROUGH JEHOVAH'S CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION, the faithful and discreet slave," (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8).
"Is not the WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?" (Watchtower, April 1, 1919, p.6414)
Daniel 12:4 ""But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
Increased, uhm? Like "increased" the same way the apostles false thinking was replaced by accurate knowledge over a span of many years?
Did Jesus reveal everything at one time?
It's understandable U don't understand the concept of increasing light or knowledge, since U don't believe everything you read in Scripture is true.
Skl, What bad results comes from refusing blood? How about dying!
Check out my video about the blood issue. Plus, show us where in the Bible you find the word organization? God has always dealt with individuals not organizations. Religions are man made and are used to control others. Jesus never established a religion, but a belief.
I'm not JW but LDS. Your wrong however about an organized religion never being established. The NT is full of references to an organized church. Evangelicals and the like explain them away or wish they didn't exist but there's no denying that the ancient Church of Christ was an organization. Why? because organized goodness consistently outperforms random goodness; it is a body of believers that is divinely organized in a synergistic manner so as to keep the doctrine pure.
Pure LDS doctrine, you say, uhp100? Keith's question applies just as much to LDSism as it does to JWism. Mormonism's core doctrine of Eternal Progression remains intact (for now), but other doctrines have changed drastically. Is Adam still God? Are black people just as worthy as white people now?
so ur LDS..and you say u "keep the doctrine pure", so if you believe in the BIBLE (which is "PURE"), then Y do you Beleive that the Book of Mormon is necessary for a correct interpretation of the BIBLE...the Bible is truth ..NOT SOME BOOK...The Book of Mormon has been discounted by all historians & Bible scholars as well.
If dying is such a bad result, why is that been going on for 6000 years?
Where is organization in the Bible? Simple, Rev 7
"I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and {all} tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb,"
Jehovah God on the throne and his son would have his people organized like they did with Israel. Israel was an organization.
Keep it up and you won't be part of that great crowd. Jehovah has no use for you among the 144,000. Jesus had to appear to Saul to get him to turn around. Looks like you need the same since you reject what Christ showed to John.
I think you need to read KM Sept 2007 Page 3 again. There is nothing wrong studying on your own but if your conclusion is different from the WT it doesnt mean theyll endorse it. YOU are reading too much into something that isnt there. What the big deal or your point again?
Unless you hold a position of responsibility within the congregation, you will never understand our point of mind control. We have books on how to control the flock and only elders secretly have them.
TheRealTruth1914 Are you referring to the book "Pay Attention To Yourselves And To All The Flock?" reference 1 page "on how to control the flock or mind control " or are YOU confusing council with controlling people and mind control? Do you understand the difference? Im putting your comments to the test. What books are you referring to that are "secrets"? Reference them.
Counsel, mind control, controlling people..it's all the same for your Elders...they control everything from what you where to the meeting...to what time u go to the meeting...to who you can talk to or associate with at work, family..etc..trust me I know, i have many JW family members.
I was an elder for many years. One needs experience to understand the tactics of how The WTS word their thoughts. It is supported with loving intentions, but as elders we know it's a subtle way to keep the flock in order. After all, to have a working organization, everyone needs to know their place.
Elder is just a title. I just use it to ID myself to those who believe I don't know anything about JW's. I don't use it to show any type of authority or special Godly knowledge. I use it as my experience to bring out some facts. God Bless.
TheRealTruth1914 The question was "reference 1 page "on how to control the flock or mind control " or are YOU confusing council with controlling people and mind control? Do you understand the difference?" Your comment that you were an Elder has no substance to me. Raymond Franz, although he was a GB member, he has many bias and mistakes in his 2 books. So what YOU use to be an Elder is irrelevant to me.
My former title as an elder has no special powers. I use it to show inexperienced witnesses as yourself that your words of reason have been heard a thousand times before. There is nothing you can say to defend your belief that I don't already know. When all is said and done, one fact is true and clear: You are serving a man made organization and not Christ!
TheRealTruth1914 Ive heard the same stories and false accusation that you bring up "your words of reason have been heard a thousand times before" as well, and the final results is YOU ARE AN ERROR. You only told half truths and NOT the full story. All your complaints already have been counter acted and the truth is there is NO ORGANIZATION on this Earth that follow the instruction of the Bible as the JWs
HoocH65 first of all your coming off disrespectful and ignorant with you comment. Just pick up a book on Textual Criticism and there youll see Bibles in general are badly edited version. I agree This whole conversation is saddening becuz you seem to not know the difference between a false prophet and wrong interpretation and aka its not the same as a false prophet.
Jesus says He is the truth, the way and the life; not an organization! When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12)
He didn't say the light will get brighter. How can the light get any brighter than the source Jesus?
What if 7 million people believe in Jesus and follow him in an organized manner? Does that make a Jesus based organization?
Why does this change thing matter? Nothing that matters has changed. 'The generation', who cares what it means? Whether people of Sodom get resurrected, who cares?
But what can't change is that Jesus is the son of Jehovah God who offered his life for mankind. Those that don't agree with that won't get life. Never change.
Look at Paul. Did he preach with the disciples? Was he called by other elders to organize congregations? Was he part of an organization? He wrote letters and encouraged congregations, not a world wide, centralized organization.
Daniel 2:44"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever."
Since this scripture has not been fulfilled as if yet it must happen in the Christian age. It does say "kingdom". A kingdom is an organization. It's God's organization so it must be Theocratic.
I believe this prophecy is currently in fulfillment and has been since the resurrection. This kingdom however does not need a human organization like the WTS.
Give a single scripture that shows a human "universal theocratic organization" much like the WTS amongst Christians?
All religions have legal organizations or corprations so that they can perform business around the world. That is one kind of "organization." A "Theocratic Organization" is in heaven and is reflected in those who follow it's tenants on earth, which we do. That is the organization referred to in almost every case of it's use. The "organization is not the Govening Body. They are the "ambassadors for Christ on earth.
Organizations and Corporations are the way in which the world performs business these days. We live in a corporate society. Yet this was not the way of the world in biblical times.
You said, "A Theocratic Organization is in heaven and is reflected in those who follow it's tenants on earth." - Where in the bible is this indicated?
You said, "The organization is not the Govening Body. They are the ambassadors for Christ on earth." - Why not all Christians?
Well of course an error occurred, it is a stupid question.
The truth never has changed. Our understanding of things not specified in the Bible has changed as it should. Where is the problem. We never state that our understanding is the truth. That is not what is meant by the truth.
The truth refers to THE WAY, as in 'the way of the truth'. It is what leads us to Jesus.
sooo....you're admitting that what YOU believe as a JW is not true?
I'm just not sure that this answers Keith's question.
For example, do you believe that it is *true* that blood transfusions are wrong? Even though for years JW's also believed *as truth* that organ transplants were wrong?
As I have always said, truth is not about doctrines and facts and figures. Since Jesus is the way, truth and life, it is about him. We have the way to life, and the truth, i.e. understanding of Jesus, and thus the life.
The Bible is clear that blood transfusions are wrong, and that they are not right.
No, JWs did not believe as truth that organ transplants were wrong. They believe that the Watchtower writers did not approve of them.
Did not approve of them? That is quite the understatement:
*** w67 11/15 p. 702 Questions From Readers ***
removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic.
A writer stating that something is cannibalistic does not make it so. Why are you such followers of men? And the one who wrote that died 2 decades ago, so why do you hold that against JWs today? This has been and always will be a non-issue. It is just a cheap shot by opposers.
This isn't just "a writer." This was published by your organization. And the reason i'm holding this against JW's today is to illustrate that what you believe today may not be true. Do you view today's WT articles as merely something written by "a man?" Or do you view these articles uncritically and without question, just as the WT tells you to?
This is hairsplitting. You know full well that you are bound by what the Watchtower publishes. And any disagreement will result in your disfellowshipping. Also, your organization claims:
"No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower." (Watchtower, Nov. 1 1931 p. 327)
Since the WTS is just a printing company and Jesus is a spirit in heaven, he uses people on earth to get his message out. Thus those people formed a printing company.
By preaching the good news, the ones who accept it, become organized to continue preaching it.
I find it sad that Satan has blinded your minds by your ridiculous objections.
what you call evidence's "ridiculous objection" are ridiculous to you because you are the one who is "Blind". There is NO mention of any ONE printing company that would come along and have the TRUE Gospel. Yes, you do preach, but you are preaching a FALSE Gospel. You have a different Jesus, Differenct Gospel & a Different Bible. That is the objection we make as Paul & other N.T. writers did..they warned others about the false teachers among u, you belong to a false organization.
We don't believe that any ONE printing company came along and have the true Gospel. We believe that around the time of the end, the prophecy of the good news being preached would be fulfilled and the people doing that would have and need a printing company.
That is the true Gospel and we have it in abundance.
sorry. but u DO NOT have the true Gospel...you denounce everything that Christ is...U dont' believe he was resurrected in a real body, that HE IS GOD IN THE FLESH, & u believe he is a "creature" - an archangel. THAT IS FALSE. Do ur research..U will see. Without the Watchtower, you would never arrive at the conclusion that Jesus is micheal the archangel as JW's teach. NEVER. JESUS NEVER SAID IT, THE BIBLE NEVER SAID IT. JESUS IS DIVINE - 'MIGHTY GOD" ISAIAH 9:6. (not "A" might God).
If he is Michael and you don't believe that, it does not matter. If he is not Michael and we believe he is, it does not matter. His being Michael or not does not change what happened between Luke 1:1 and when he ascended to heaven.
However, I believe that Rev 12 was prophesied for Jesus.
christians also have plenty of printing companies that we use to distribute literature, but they are not the VOICE of God. besides, ur belief that the WTBTS is the VOICE of God is NOWHERE to be found in the Bible either. You can't prove it with scripture..however, you may try to apply certain scripture to urselves, it's just not there!
sklemetti, Please show us where in the Bible it states that Blood transfusions are forbidden. You are using WTS logic rather than common sense. Try to use your mental capabilities.
sklemetti said: "We never state that our understanding is the truth. That is not what is meant by the truth."
Here we go, JW's backpedaling and putting their feet in their mouths. JW's have said for decades that they have the 'truth'. Are you saying that through 'new light', TRUTH has a different meaning....now? When I was a JW, we would say to visiting JW, "how long you've been in the TRUTH". That's what it meant, that the JW belief and interpretation of the bible... JW's have the TRUTH.
How can I backpedal from something that I never said?
NO, for decades we used the phrase 'are you in the truth'? That meant to be in the congregation, not a doctrinal rundown.
Truth has only one meaning, it does not change. But we use the word in a manner to show that we strive for that truth. That is why it can and does change. Those that criticize changes and JWs are satisfied with being wrong.
Hey, if you are satisfied with being wrong, that is your choice. We aren't.
Quick Question For EvidenceMinistries: "Since your t-shirt is copyright infringement of Tommy Hilfiger's logo, could he sue God? And would HE forgive him for doing so? And if the lawsuit was successful, would that make Mr. Hilfiger guilty of sacrilege?"
5ivPtgRh 7 months ago
When your child is growing, he learns as he grows.God does not INSTANTLY teach us EVERYTHING. It is a GRADUAL learning. New bible truths, further understanding, is revealed to us. Jesus Christ was revealed GRADUALLY,OVER HUNDREDS AND EVEN THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE HE ACTUALLY CAME TO THE EARTH. God has his way of doing things, he reveals truths, and teaches his people over T-I-M-E. God told Daniel to seal up the book,and wait until the time of the END to reveal it-Daniel 12:4.LEARN
eternityandforever 8 months ago
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ReligionOrTruth 1 year ago
the day is not firmly established.
youwhosnameisjehovah 2 years ago
Since there is an Old Testament and a New Testament doesn't that mean that what came before was wrong, so it had to be changed?
nibornagrom 2 years ago
I really don'y know how much clearer I can be. 1)You are put more emphases on the door to door preaching than is implied in the Bible. I did not say that it was wrong in itself.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 1)Not only do we "put more emphases on the door to door preaching" but we also emphasize on preaching period. What is the problem? Are you against Jesus words "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come" Matt 24:14. I dont see your point.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago 2
Defend, I can not be more specific than I have stated. The WTS puts the METHOD of door to door ministry as a mandatory obligation to have god's approval! This is why you go to meetings that repeat the same information at every meeting, it is because you have a hard time grasping information!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 I would agree with this statement "The WTS puts the METHOD of door to door ministry as a mandatory obligation to have god's approval!" but I would also add the WT states its mandatory obligation TO PREACH. Would it be safe for both of us to agree on that point?
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, Yes I agree with preaching but without the pressure of reporting hours and magazines placed. As an elder I would have to encourage many to put more effort in magazine placements even though most of them dedicated well over 20 hrs a month. Makes you wonder what was more important to the WTS, hours or literature?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 I would agree placing magazines and hours does a play a part. Im not against it or for it. But I do understand it, as an organization the Brothers want to keep track how much production needs to be made with magz and what territories need to be covered.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
The Watchtower should learn to rely on the Holy Spirit rather than man made statistics. The first century Christians relied on him.
lchiddle 2 years ago 2
"The Watchtower should learn to rely on the Holy Spirit rather than man made statistics."
James 2:26 "Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead"
acerimmeh 2 years ago
Hey acerimmeh,
Don't exactly see how you're comment relates to what I've commented.
lchiddle 2 years ago
2) I realized my error on the date, but it does not matter, Russell made more than one prediction that failed, your point on this is wastfull.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
2) You said "Russell made more than one prediction that failed". Again, he didnt make predictions he had wrong interpretation of Scriptures he said "We have never claimed inspiration nor prophetic vision. All that we have ever claimed is that "Wonderful things in the Bible we see," and that the dearest is the love of the Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Lord Jesus, and that the time for the establishment of the Kingdom is very nigh." —1914; "The Watch Tower", May 1, 1914 pg. 134.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
He misinterpreted scripture and DIDNT FALSE PREDICTIONS
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, You are in denial! false predictions or wrong interpretation still means the same conclusion= the words did not originate with GOD!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Your statement "false predictions or wrong interpretation still means the same conclusion= the words did not originate with GOD!" OK I can agree with that. But what is your point? Did the prophets and apostles have "wrong interpretation conclusion= the words did not originate with GOD?" Peter sure did interpret Jesus words wrong and made a so called false predictions according to you. Read John 21:20-23.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Peter made a claim "that that disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die" And what happened? "In consequence, this saying went out among the brothers". Peter wasnt called a false prophet for misinterpreting Jesus words.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, Peter did not predict anything, unlike the WTS, they made many specific predictions with specific dates. Plus they claim it wasn't made with their efforts but it was from God's direction.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Peter did predict "this saying went out among the brothers, that that disciple (referring to John) would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die". What was the prediction? Peter predicted That disciple would not die. But "Jesus did not say to him that he would not die". This is referring to Jesus coming
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, yes the disciples made mistakes but the WTS claims to be God's mouth piece, God's ONLY channel to mankind and cover their mistakes with the "new light" excuse.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 I do believe JWs are Gods people and you are right with respect to your comment "cover their mistakes with the "new light" excuse". I do believe in the new light but there are times when we just made mistakes and we shouldnt call it new light. I would agree with you on that point.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
What if the Watchtower are wrong about every "new light".
But the path of the just is like the shining sun, that shines ever brighter unto the perfect day.
The way of the wicked is like darkness; They do not know what makes them stumble.
- Proverbs 4:18-19 -
The Watchtower CONSTANTLY stubble.
lchiddle 2 years ago
lchiddle You said "The Watchtower CONSTANTLY stubble" that is correct and we acknowledge that and make adjustments. However, main stream Christianity or so called Orthodox still doesnt have simple concepts correct. For example, Jesus said "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves."—John 13:34, 35. And yet we still see so called Christians killing one another in war. JWs seem to follow these simple concepts
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
DefendingYHWH, two wrongs don't make a right.
Jesus also said there would be many false teachers and prophets. Wolves in sheeps clothing. Would you class all Germans as Nazis?
In God's eyes lying is just as much a sin as murder, yet the WTS quite happily vindicate "Theocratic War Strategy." Jesus said, "let your yes be yes, and your no be no."
lchiddle 2 years ago 2
The difference is Jehovah's Witnesses say they are the only true Christian. The WTS have made statements such as "come to the Organization for salvation," yet this organization flip-flops over and over and over again on the same topics, hardly "adjustments," more like too many cheifs. The WTS is run by men not God. You don't see such "adjustment" within the Christian scriptures.
lchiddle 2 years ago 2
You talk of love, but I see very little genuine love from JW's. Sure there's love from one JW to another JW (very cultish by the way, it's called love bombing), but anyone leaves the organization and suddenly this so called "love" quickly dissolves into nothing if not worse.
lchiddle 2 years ago
Ichiddle,
Ur comment re: JW type of love is right one! if u are not one of them or leave the organization, then their love becomes "conditional" rather than true "agape" love. God bless u.
laffy4christ 2 years ago
Ichiddle,
i like this comment. ur emphasis on how the WTS sez "come to us" "the Organization"...whereas, Jesus said "come to Me".."follow Me". Not a man-made run organization.
JESUS IS THE TRUTH. Amen!
laffy4christ 2 years ago
Unfortunately their are tares among the wheat and in Romans 2 the Jews' hypocrisy is the reason God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles. This however, does not paint a general picture for the born again church body. Their are indeed Christians practicing that very verse you quoted and some that stumble with it but thankfully as 1st John states we have an advocate in case we fail to keep his commandments.
technicainsidia 2 years ago
Another thing I would like to point out is, based on your theory that obedience to their beliefs = true religion, wouldn't Islam be a valid candidate? Or maybe Mormons? 2 or even 3 can't be right at the same time.
technicainsidia 2 years ago
defending YHWH..
ur reply on 10/31/09 to my comment said u dont' see any of what i discussed on this page re: JW's in the JW community...so therefore it's "false"...
just bcuz u don't see it doesn't mean it's false. it could mean one is "blind" to it. i rest my case.
laffy4christ 2 years ago
d ,ur basic consepts r good bt becos u don`t believe in the only true Jesus of nazereth and His physical victory over death ur still in ur sins and will never realize eternal life.
pls tell me y jw`s don`t believe in Jesus of nazereth bt rather in jesus of the wts?
arnie365 2 years ago
...and another thing is it has been 130 yrs the wts has been getting brighter and brighter and it`s still not perfect day for them.
arnie365 2 years ago
3) When you comment on the WT study, when you answer the question that the conductor asks, do you reapeat the whole paragraph that the brother just finished reading? No, you pull out the points and make your comment simple and to the point.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
3) I dont understand what your 3rd point. What is the point your making, can you please clarify?
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
If I would make up a false statement and mixed it with a true statement then it would be half truth. I did not do this, you are continuously wrongfully accusing, assuming and judging me. I am quoting the WTS words and telling my experience as a former JW, nothing more. I do not promote any religion or belief. You and the other JW' have a hard time accepting the fact that not all will agree with the WTS teachings.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Your statement "If I would make up a false statement and mixed it with a true statement then it would be half truth" That is not necessarily true. What I meant is you didnt tell the whole story respect with Franz on what he meant with his statment. He did say "Jehovah is the editor of the WT" but thats where you concluded misleading people thinking he is saying the writers were possessed or inspired by Jehovah to write the WT.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, I can say the same about your comment.. You also quoted the part that supported your claim in the court case. To-shay!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 The only point I was bringing up is what you left out thats all. You were trying to make a big deal about a statement, I was clarifying that statement what Franz. You are the guilty one for trying to me Franz look bad base on a statement that you could have clearly clarified.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
The court case shows the Lawyer asked to clarify what Franz meant about his statement and he did, thats what I meant about half truth.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, you said I state half truths because I did not include the whole interview with Franz. What is the purpose to repeat the whole thing? I quoted the main point that I needed, just as you do when commenting at a WT study.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 The WT clarifies when its making a point. You made a point regarding a statement Franz said, but you didnt quote all the way to clarify what he meant. In the scholarly community they have a term for that. Its called intellectual dishonesty, and that is what you are guilty of. If I was to ask you what did Franz mean by his statement how would you reply?
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, what Franz is also guilty of is back pedalling as you continually do when you are up against the wall. Honestly, Franz really believed that God was the editor. It is supported with all his writings. He was avoiding any blasphemous charges against him and the society. This is reasonable and only human.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Ill ask you this again since you avoided the question. In what sense did Franz mean "that God was the editor"?
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
My comments are not half truths, I am only doing exacly what you are doing when you qoute Scriptures without reading the WHOLE context.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
Are you really that numb headed? Door to door as the Witnesses do. What do you not understand? Why are you taking this out of context and making it something else and avoiding the main point?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Tell me exactly what am I taking out of context and "making it something else and avoiding the main point?" I dont understand can you expand on your comments? By this comment I dont know who wouldnt be "numb headed". Your too vague.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
According to you I state half truths. If that is true, then I'm one up ahead of you. all you do is try to justify all your own assumptions and ideas. Your comments are totally ridiculous. You should really take a break and do some serious studying.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 I think you need to read my comments carefully. I dont even know what your beliefs are so your comment "According to you I state half truths. If that is true, then I'm one up ahead of you" its clear what I meant. The example you gave about 1914, Door to Door, and especially the court case with Franz situation. Those are the half truths I was referring to.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 With respect to your comment "do some serious studying" I try. But I think the same applies to you becuz you dont even have the apostate argument correct with the Pyramid. The apostate complaint is they falsely say Russell got 1874 from the pyramid NOT 1914, get your facts straight next time and "do some serious studying".
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
What difference does it make?! He used pyramidology, isn't that 'spiritism'?!
Typical JW 'logic'. Justifying everything, though it's CLEARLY not.
poconoporker 2 years ago
Poconoporker You asked "He used pyramidology, isn't that 'spiritism'?! absolutely not. Pyramidology is a term used, sometimes disparagingly, to refer to various pseudoscientific speculations regarding pyramids, most often the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. All claims of pyramidology are regarded as pseudoscience by the scientific community at large, who regard such hypotheses as sensationalist, inaccurate and/or wholly deficient in empirical analysis and application of the scientific method.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Spiritism is a belief in the existence of spirits - non-physical beings that live in the invisible or spirit world - and the possibility of communication between these spirits and living people through mediumship. The two are very different in fields of study and they dont relate.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, if measuring the pyramids is not wrong, then why doesn't the Governing body do it today? Russell had such great success in doing so :)
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Your adding words to my statement, I never said "measuring the pyramids is not wrong" I just corrected poconoporker when he asked "He used pyramidology, isn't that 'spiritism'?! When they are 2 different fields. No one would consider Astrology the same thing as Astronomy. But you can consider pyramidology a form of Archeology.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, I said Russell was a mason, you said the pyramid was used as a secondary support, I said it was used to predict dates, you avoided the subject by correcting the date, someone said he was a spiritualist, you said it's not the same as pyramidal, etc... let's just drop this subject, it's going no where fast.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 I didnt avoid any of your questions. With your false accusation saying Russell was a Mason I actually contradicted you by Russells own writings Ill repeat "This is what Russell himself said "I
have NEVER been a Mason" June, 1913; Convention discourse "The Temple of God"("Convention Report Sermons" pg. 362) And many other articles that he wrote denying he was a Mason 1908; Convention Question Meeting ("The Question Book" pg. 318), 1904 "The New Creation", pp. 580-581,
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
defending YHWH,
u say russel wasn't a mason...have u seen photos of his grave marker..there are Masonic symbols on it. u are denying reality.
laffy4christ 2 years ago
THEY USE THEOCRATIC WAR STRATEGY.he is trying to decieve u about the obvious.
arnie365 2 years ago
Zion's Watch Tower, June, 1895, pg. 143, etc. But of course who cares despite the evidence people just like the Rumors and like "their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3; Do your remember now?
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Do you enjoy assuming and making up quotes?
1) I said Russell used the pyramids for his calculation of 1914, but the date of 1914 originated with Brown. I was pointing out that the 1914 date was USED by someone else before Russell, not that Russell got his date from Brown!
Who is the lair here?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 You are correct you did say "Russell used the pyramids for his calculation of 1914" but you are wrong he didnt get 1914 from the pyramid, the pyramid has nothing to do with 1914, again your confusing the date1 874, and NO he didnt get the date from the pyramid. I Already contradicted you on that point. You didnt elaborate what your point was regarding 1914 originated with Brown so I only assumed what your point was. Thats what you get when you dont CLARIFY.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
But still your point is irrelevant if your point is "Russell got his date from Brown" becuz the WT already established that point.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
2)It was not neccessary to quote the whole court case. The lawer asked if Jehovah is the editor of the WTS and Franz said YES. If he meant differently, he should have said it rather than changing his words when he was asked again. The point is, he said Jehovah is the editor!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Through context of the court case it was it was clarified what they meant about "Jehovah is the editor of the WTS"; Again, everything they write is biblical based its not based on the Quran, the Book of Mormon, or any other so called holy book. That is the part you seem to leave out and you are guilty for telling half truths.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Its like when Jesus told his disciples to eat his flesh, people were stumbled by that I didnt give Jesus a chance to clarify. This is EXACLTY what you are doing here. HALF TRUTHS
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
3) I implied? No, YOU implied. Yes the Bible does speak of HOUSE TO HOUSE, but DOOR TO DOOR as JW's do it (in a consecutive mannar) is not mentioned in the Bible. I also said preaching is preaching and house to house is not the primary method used by Jesus and his disciples. I never EXCLUDED house to house. Go back and read the comments.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 The problem you have is semantics. When it says house to house didnt those houses have doors, most likely? Jesus gave specific instructions to go to peoples doors, of course its in important. YOU need to go back and read the comments becuz your making the same argument. My response was "When you go to strangers houses its implied. You arent seriously arguing the exact term "door to door" needs to be stated in order to preach at peoples homes are you?
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Who is the one taking words and twisting them?
Of course, it's not your fault. You have been taught to misqouting others and bring you ideas as truth.
Once again, you are not defending Jehovah, you are defending a man made organization. Go pray to them for being a loser and putting them to shame.
Why are you deleteing your comments? Are you covering your tracks?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 FYI I deleted my comment becuz I referenced the wrong material, no big deal as youre make it
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defend, You have illegally obtained an unauthorized copy of an elders hand book. One point for you in Jehovah's book of life. Great going, keep it up!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Your bringing up an irrelevant point (typical) for the 3rd time: The question was "reference 1 page "on how to control the flock or mind control " or are YOU confusing council with controlling people and mind control? Do you understand the difference?" The Elders are loving people and they CANT force people to do anything, they just give council. You talk too much with out ANY EVIDENCE
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
All my questions were answered with absurd responses by you. I also have counter acted. Why do you avoid answering my questions? Why do you hide by jumping to different sites?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
You mean absurd responses like you THOUGHT C.T. Russell got 1914 from a pyramid? Then you contradicted yourself saying he got it from John Aquila Brown ? Or how about when you implied "door to door" is not biblical then you changed you mind saying "I did not say preaching to homes was excluded". You just keep contradicting yourself, but is that what you mean about "with absurd responses"?
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Or how about his one "The WTS says Jehovah is the editor of the WT, but claim that they are not inspired" But you didnt quote the whole court case on what Franz meant. Like I said half truths. Are these the "absurd responses" that you are talking about? Thus so far youve been telling half truths and misapplied scriptures ALL your complaints have been counter acted already.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 You asked me "Why do you hide by jumping to different sites?" I dont even understand the question. How am I hiding when Im always in back of you counter acting your false accusations? I honesty dont even know what mean. I think you are confusing me with someone else.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Thank you for you honesty. So the WTS uses non anointed individuals to write their publications. What happened to the faithful discrete slave theory?
So now you know what Franz was thinking when he said that. Sure you can use others as examples of lying under oath, so what does that make Fred Franz?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
Don't forget, Fred Franz (president of the WTS) said under oath, that Jehovah is the editor of the Watchtower!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
So?
Bill Clinton said some things under oath.
George W said that Iraq had WMDs.
The point Bro Franz was making was that the Watchtower's goal is to please Jehovah.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Sklemetti,
You appear to know something about logical fallacies. Don't try a fast one here, brother.
Clinton's and GW's false statements in no way make Franz's false statements acceptable. Moreover, at least Clinton admitted he was wrong. Still holding my breath to hear the WT EVER say "WE WERE WRONG" Ain't gonna happen...
JWsAlmostHadMe 1 year ago
"Theocratic"....mind showing me the scripture that says this, TRUTHINTHEBIBLE ?
poconoporker 2 years ago
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE said: "This is not true, because you can read them (elders handbook) online. Not very secret or mind controlling."?
Why did you delete this? I know why, you're a COWARD!
poconoporker 2 years ago
Truthinthebible,
Why did you delete your comment? "This is not true, because you can read them online. Not very secret or mind controlling."?
Once I resigned as an elder, I had to hand over this book, because it was the WTS property. ONLY elders should have and use this book. If you have a download of this, then you have obtained it illegally because the WTS has never authorized the release of said publication.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
C'mon now what "s up with the mormons we need more questions....
campcook88 2 years ago
Being organized does not mean a man made controlled Organization. What did Jesus tell his disciples before leaving? Who would come in their mists? No mention of a religion or an organization. Stop assuming and stick the the Scriptures. It is not a mystery, it does not have hidden messages, read it for what it is without assuming!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
Steve, You say that "I expect our beliefs to be wrong now." If the Watchtower is wrong about God, and if Jesus said that eternal life is "knowing the true God, and Jesus Christ," then does that not mean that the Watchtower does not have eternal life?
You said earlier, "I love bashing opposers to JWs, that is more fun because I am right." Yet you just now said you probably aren't right. So how can you be right, if you expect to be wrong? Or are you wrong about being wrong? Or right?
fourpointer 2 years ago
Where did I say anything about the Watchtower?
I stated that we are not so prideful to not accept correction and to believe that we are absolute. He who is standing, beware he may fall.
But I am more right than any opposer because the Bible is clear on the difference between you and us. You are without faith, we have faith. That is what it is all about.
sklemetti 2 years ago
slemetti,
evidence ministries is correct. this new light" is the problem with JW's theogoly - it's an "EVER CHANGING TRUTH" & actually is a lie. u said "the bible is clear on the difference between you and us" - it sure is. We have the TRUTH...THE BIBLE..& WE HAVE FAITH IN JESUS (WHO IS THE TRUTH - John 14:6) & THE BIBLE..u my friend have placed ur faith in an organization & it's publications that tell how to interpret THEIR OWN BIBLE which has also been changed. bible scholars reject the NWT.
laffy4christ 2 years ago 2
You don't have the truth because you don't believe in Jesus. You don't believe he is the son of God who takes the sin away and is king of the kingdom. That has not changed and will not.
What you are referring to is not relevant to anything.
sklemetti 2 years ago
sklemetti
u should designate who ur speaking to on this channel.
re: ur comment that Christians don't believe in Jesus...how do u figure? WE ACTUALLY USE "HIS NAME" IN WHAT WE CALL RSELVES, FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST, THUS WE R CALLED "CHRISTIANS" AS THE BIBLE DOES (ACTS 11:26). U SAY WE DON'T BELIEVE IN JESUS...WELL, NOT UR JESUS, WHICH IS A FALSE JESUS. I BELIEVE IN THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE. I AGREE WITH U THAT HE TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD & IS THE "KING OF KINGS & LORD OF LORDS" REV. 19:16.
laffy4christ 2 years ago 2
(1 of 2)
"Where did I say anything about the Watchtower?" Umm....let's see...JW's...Watchtower....Yeah, no connection there, huh?
The way you present yourself is very clever. You claim to be the only one that is correct here. You claim that we don't have the truth. You say that you are more correct than we are. Yet on the other hand, you say that you don't know the truth. If I didn't know better, I'd almost think I was talking to a Mormon.
fourpointer 2 years ago
(2 of 2)
Steve, when you say "We" who exactly are you referring to? Are you talking about JW's? The only ones who are right...except when they're wrong...although even when they're wrong, they're right....Because they're LESS WRONG than anybody else...even tho they don't claim to be right...Wow, can't argue with that.
It sounds like you're saying that if we don't believe what JW's believe, we're not saved. Sounds like you put more faith into what the WT teaches than what the Bible says.
fourpointer 2 years ago
I say that since Jehovah God is the only one who knows the truth (not even Jesus does), then to say that we can have many things wrong is quite humble, which follow the model of Jesus.
He knew only what his Father Jehovah gave him. The same with us. But we have much more that he has not yet given us, yet to learn.
sklemetti 2 years ago
(1 of 2)
Jesus "doesn't know the truth?" I guess that means He doesn't know Himself, because He said, "I AM the Way, THE TRUTH..." (Jn 14:6). He also said WE would know the truth. "If you abide in My Word, YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH..." (Jn 8:31-32).
So, in what should we abide? Jesus' words? Or Watchtower teachings? And don't insult our intelligence with the whole "The WT is just a printing company" line. We all know better. The Watchtower is the governing body of the JW's.
fourpointer 2 years ago
(2 of 2)
For example, if all the Watchtower Society did was to print the New World Translation, then who did the translating? Yes, that would be the Watchtower Society. And who decides what goes into the Watchtower and Awake! magazines? Yes, that would ALSO be the Watchtower.
So, the question is which should we believe? The WTS, whose beliefs are ever-changing? Or the Word of God, which never changes. I'd rather trust the Bible.
fourpointer 2 years ago
The governing body is composed of 9 people. The Watchtower is a magazine that is written by many not on the governing body. The GB just oversees the writing of it.
The WTS has several thousand working there. The GB just work there.
sklemetti 2 years ago
So, the Governing Body tells the WTS what to say, and the WTS in turn passes it onto the masses. Thus, the hair is split.
Of course, the Governing Body--who is supposed to be the channel Jehovah is using to communicate--is "probably wrong" (your words) about what they believe.
Makes one wonder.....if they are "probably wrong" (your words) about the "little things", how can a person trust them on the bigger things (who God is, who Christ is, salvation, etc)?
fourpointer 2 years ago
Why is it necessary to "trust them"??
JWs read the Bible themselves and come to the same conclusions because they are Bible based.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Lol. You're not bible based your Watchtower interpretation based.
Even the Watchtower says that you only came to belief you have because you read the Watchtower's publications.
No one has ever come to the same beliefs as JW's (which ever era of "truth" that maybe) without Watchtower publications. Yet, millions throughout the ages have come to the same core beliefs held by those of mainstream Christianity all over the world that allow the Bible to interpret the Bible rather than men.
lchiddle 2 years ago 2
(1 of 2)
Well, then I guess this would be one of those places where the WTS was "wrong":
"We all need help to understand the Bible, and we CANNOT FIND THE SCRIPTURAL GUIDANCE WE NEED outside the 'faithful and discreet slave' organization,'" (Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981).
Obviously, the WTS doesn't think anyone can understand the Bible without the WTS teaching them. So, then, the JW will "come to the same conclusions" because that is what they have been taught to believe.
fourpointer 2 years ago 3
"These anointed overseers [the Watchtower] SERVE AS THOUGH BEING GUIDED in their activities BY THE RIGHT HAND OF CHRIST..." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1969, p. 51).
Hmmmm...if the WTS is an "anointed overseer", who anointed them? And if they are "guided by the right hand of Christ," then how could they be wrong about ANYTHING?
fourpointer 2 years ago
"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" CAN ONLY BECOME KNOWN THROUGH JEHOVAH'S CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION, the faithful and discreet slave," (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8).
fourpointer 2 years ago
"Is not the WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?" (Watchtower, April 1, 1919, p.6414)
fourpointer 2 years ago
Daniel 12:4 ""But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
Increased, uhm? Like "increased" the same way the apostles false thinking was replaced by accurate knowledge over a span of many years?
Did Jesus reveal everything at one time?
It's understandable U don't understand the concept of increasing light or knowledge, since U don't believe everything you read in Scripture is true.
Robin
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 2 years ago
Skl, What bad results comes from refusing blood? How about dying!
Check out my video about the blood issue. Plus, show us where in the Bible you find the word organization? God has always dealt with individuals not organizations. Religions are man made and are used to control others. Jesus never established a religion, but a belief.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
I'm not JW but LDS. Your wrong however about an organized religion never being established. The NT is full of references to an organized church. Evangelicals and the like explain them away or wish they didn't exist but there's no denying that the ancient Church of Christ was an organization. Why? because organized goodness consistently outperforms random goodness; it is a body of believers that is divinely organized in a synergistic manner so as to keep the doctrine pure.
uhp100 2 years ago 2
Pure LDS doctrine, you say, uhp100? Keith's question applies just as much to LDSism as it does to JWism. Mormonism's core doctrine of Eternal Progression remains intact (for now), but other doctrines have changed drastically. Is Adam still God? Are black people just as worthy as white people now?
MormonDoctrinedotnet 2 years ago
uhp 100,
so ur LDS..and you say u "keep the doctrine pure", so if you believe in the BIBLE (which is "PURE"), then Y do you Beleive that the Book of Mormon is necessary for a correct interpretation of the BIBLE...the Bible is truth ..NOT SOME BOOK...The Book of Mormon has been discounted by all historians & Bible scholars as well.
laffy4christ 2 years ago
If dying is such a bad result, why is that been going on for 6000 years?
Where is organization in the Bible? Simple, Rev 7
"I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and {all} tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb,"
Jehovah God on the throne and his son would have his people organized like they did with Israel. Israel was an organization.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Skl,
"A great multitude which no one could count."
It dosen't sound organized to me.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
Keep it up and you won't be part of that great crowd. Jehovah has no use for you among the 144,000. Jesus had to appear to Saul to get him to turn around. Looks like you need the same since you reject what Christ showed to John.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Food for thought sklemetti,
Kingdom Ministry, Sept. 2007, p 3
poconoporker 2 years ago
Comment removed
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
I think you need to read KM Sept 2007 Page 3 again. There is nothing wrong studying on your own but if your conclusion is different from the WT it doesnt mean theyll endorse it. YOU are reading too much into something that isnt there. What the big deal or your point again?
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago 2
Unless you hold a position of responsibility within the congregation, you will never understand our point of mind control. We have books on how to control the flock and only elders secretly have them.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Are you referring to the book "Pay Attention To Yourselves And To All The Flock?" reference 1 page "on how to control the flock or mind control " or are YOU confusing council with controlling people and mind control? Do you understand the difference? Im putting your comments to the test. What books are you referring to that are "secrets"? Reference them.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
defending YHWH,
Counsel, mind control, controlling people..it's all the same for your Elders...they control everything from what you where to the meeting...to what time u go to the meeting...to who you can talk to or associate with at work, family..etc..trust me I know, i have many JW family members.
laffy4christ 2 years ago
laffy4christ You claim all this but Im in the JW community and I dont see ANY OF THIS (Im referring to what your wrote). So your statement is FALSE.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Defending,
I was an elder for many years. One needs experience to understand the tactics of how The WTS word their thoughts. It is supported with loving intentions, but as elders we know it's a subtle way to keep the flock in order. After all, to have a working organization, everyone needs to know their place.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
You used to be an elder...
But 'used to be's' don't count anymore
They just lay on the floor
'Til we sweep them away
sklemetti 2 years ago
Elder is just a title. I just use it to ID myself to those who believe I don't know anything about JW's. I don't use it to show any type of authority or special Godly knowledge. I use it as my experience to bring out some facts. God Bless.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 The question was "reference 1 page "on how to control the flock or mind control " or are YOU confusing council with controlling people and mind control? Do you understand the difference?" Your comment that you were an Elder has no substance to me. Raymond Franz, although he was a GB member, he has many bias and mistakes in his 2 books. So what YOU use to be an Elder is irrelevant to me.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
My former title as an elder has no special powers. I use it to show inexperienced witnesses as yourself that your words of reason have been heard a thousand times before. There is nothing you can say to defend your belief that I don't already know. When all is said and done, one fact is true and clear: You are serving a man made organization and not Christ!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
well said
gweems828 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 Ive heard the same stories and false accusation that you bring up "your words of reason have been heard a thousand times before" as well, and the final results is YOU ARE AN ERROR. You only told half truths and NOT the full story. All your complaints already have been counter acted and the truth is there is NO ORGANIZATION on this Earth that follow the instruction of the Bible as the JWs
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
@DefendingYHWH
The Bible?
You do mean the NWT badly edited version.
This whole conversation is saddening..
1914 was the predicted end date.
So were all the other dates after that...
Aka, false prophet ..FTW
HoocH65 2 years ago
HoocH65 first of all your coming off disrespectful and ignorant with you comment. Just pick up a book on Textual Criticism and there youll see Bibles in general are badly edited version. I agree This whole conversation is saddening becuz you seem to not know the difference between a false prophet and wrong interpretation and aka its not the same as a false prophet.
DefendingYHWH 2 years ago
Comment removed
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 2 years ago
Jesus says He is the truth, the way and the life; not an organization! When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12)
He didn't say the light will get brighter. How can the light get any brighter than the source Jesus?
rachelbinto 2 years ago
What if 7 million people believe in Jesus and follow him in an organized manner? Does that make a Jesus based organization?
Why does this change thing matter? Nothing that matters has changed. 'The generation', who cares what it means? Whether people of Sodom get resurrected, who cares?
But what can't change is that Jesus is the son of Jehovah God who offered his life for mankind. Those that don't agree with that won't get life. Never change.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Yes, but when an Organization is controlled and monitored by old white men from Brooklyn, that is unScriptural.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
No, the organization is controlled by Jesus, and the one black man in Brooklyn.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Is God organized?
Can you think of any Scriptures that prove that question to be true?
Is Jesus organized?
Oh, the 1st question in your dogma addressed the 2nd. Sorry.
Please answer the 1st and 2nd question.
Robin
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 2 years ago
Look at Paul. Did he preach with the disciples? Was he called by other elders to organize congregations? Was he part of an organization? He wrote letters and encouraged congregations, not a world wide, centralized organization.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
They did not have the means of a worldwide organzation. They had congregations scattered around. They did not have printing presses and mail services.
Your attempts of finding fault are showing that you are a fool. Grasping at straws.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Yes he was part of the Christian organization. The Cristians were organized, He was as we are, part of a universal Theocratic organization.
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 2 years ago
Truthinthebible,
Tell me, when did this univarsal Theocratic Christian organization start?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
"TRUTHINTHEBIBLE",
Give a single scripture that shows a "universal theocratic organization" amongst Christians?
lchiddle 2 years ago
Daniel 2:44"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever."
Since this scripture has not been fulfilled as if yet it must happen in the Christian age. It does say "kingdom". A kingdom is an organization. It's God's organization so it must be Theocratic.
Easy, eh?
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 2 years ago
I believe this prophecy is currently in fulfillment and has been since the resurrection. This kingdom however does not need a human organization like the WTS.
Give a single scripture that shows a human "universal theocratic organization" much like the WTS amongst Christians?
lchiddle 2 years ago
All religions have legal organizations or corprations so that they can perform business around the world. That is one kind of "organization." A "Theocratic Organization" is in heaven and is reflected in those who follow it's tenants on earth, which we do. That is the organization referred to in almost every case of it's use. The "organization is not the Govening Body. They are the "ambassadors for Christ on earth.
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 2 years ago
"TRUTHINTHEBIBLE"
Organizations and Corporations are the way in which the world performs business these days. We live in a corporate society. Yet this was not the way of the world in biblical times.
You said, "A Theocratic Organization is in heaven and is reflected in those who follow it's tenants on earth." - Where in the bible is this indicated?
You said, "The organization is not the Govening Body. They are the ambassadors for Christ on earth." - Why not all Christians?
lchiddle 2 years ago
Truthinthebible,
Assumption=justifying.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
An error occurred, please try again later.
Well of course an error occurred, it is a stupid question.
The truth never has changed. Our understanding of things not specified in the Bible has changed as it should. Where is the problem. We never state that our understanding is the truth. That is not what is meant by the truth.
The truth refers to THE WAY, as in 'the way of the truth'. It is what leads us to Jesus.
sklemetti 2 years ago
sooo....you're admitting that what YOU believe as a JW is not true?
I'm just not sure that this answers Keith's question.
For example, do you believe that it is *true* that blood transfusions are wrong? Even though for years JW's also believed *as truth* that organ transplants were wrong?
entrsnm3 2 years ago
NO, I didn't say that. As usual, you twist words.
As I have always said, truth is not about doctrines and facts and figures. Since Jesus is the way, truth and life, it is about him. We have the way to life, and the truth, i.e. understanding of Jesus, and thus the life.
The Bible is clear that blood transfusions are wrong, and that they are not right.
No, JWs did not believe as truth that organ transplants were wrong. They believe that the Watchtower writers did not approve of them.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Did not approve of them? That is quite the understatement:
*** w67 11/15 p. 702 Questions From Readers ***
removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic.
And last time I checked, cannibalism is WRONG.
entrsnm3 2 years ago
Check again.
A writer stating that something is cannibalistic does not make it so. Why are you such followers of men? And the one who wrote that died 2 decades ago, so why do you hold that against JWs today? This has been and always will be a non-issue. It is just a cheap shot by opposers.
sklemetti 2 years ago
This isn't just "a writer." This was published by your organization. And the reason i'm holding this against JW's today is to illustrate that what you believe today may not be true. Do you view today's WT articles as merely something written by "a man?" Or do you view these articles uncritically and without question, just as the WT tells you to?
entrsnm3 2 years ago
No, organizations do not publish things. Writers write, platemakers make plates, pressmen run the presses. That is just a few, not the organization.
I don't view that anything has ever changed. I don't view these articles at all. I understand the truth and it is not about articles.
sklemetti 2 years ago
This is hairsplitting. You know full well that you are bound by what the Watchtower publishes. And any disagreement will result in your disfellowshipping. Also, your organization claims:
"No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower." (Watchtower, Nov. 1 1931 p. 327)
Do you agree with their statement?
entrsnm3 2 years ago 2
damn.. i think they call that verbally getting your ass handed to you . :) well done....
reasoningwitchpower 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheRedBlueBlues 2 years ago
sklemetti, According to the WTS, the Editor of the WTS publications is JEHOVAH!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
I thought it was a Quick Question for JWS, not a Watchtower bashing question.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Love bashing the WTS......so much fun. : )
Jesus NEVER took the job of CEO of the WTS. NOWHERE does god and jesus, establish a visible organization. NOWHERE.
I find it funny how Satan has you by the nuts. lol!
poconoporker 2 years ago
I love bashing opposers to JWs, that is more fun because I am right.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Since the WTS is just a printing company and Jesus is a spirit in heaven, he uses people on earth to get his message out. Thus those people formed a printing company.
By preaching the good news, the ones who accept it, become organized to continue preaching it.
I find it sad that Satan has blinded your minds by your ridiculous objections.
sklemetti 2 years ago
The Bible is complete, no need for a printing company to expand man's interpretations.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago 3
slemetti,
what you call evidence's "ridiculous objection" are ridiculous to you because you are the one who is "Blind". There is NO mention of any ONE printing company that would come along and have the TRUE Gospel. Yes, you do preach, but you are preaching a FALSE Gospel. You have a different Jesus, Differenct Gospel & a Different Bible. That is the objection we make as Paul & other N.T. writers did..they warned others about the false teachers among u, you belong to a false organization.
laffy4christ 2 years ago
We don't believe that any ONE printing company came along and have the true Gospel. We believe that around the time of the end, the prophecy of the good news being preached would be fulfilled and the people doing that would have and need a printing company.
That is the true Gospel and we have it in abundance.
sklemetti 2 years ago
sklemetti
sorry. but u DO NOT have the true Gospel...you denounce everything that Christ is...U dont' believe he was resurrected in a real body, that HE IS GOD IN THE FLESH, & u believe he is a "creature" - an archangel. THAT IS FALSE. Do ur research..U will see. Without the Watchtower, you would never arrive at the conclusion that Jesus is micheal the archangel as JW's teach. NEVER. JESUS NEVER SAID IT, THE BIBLE NEVER SAID IT. JESUS IS DIVINE - 'MIGHTY GOD" ISAIAH 9:6. (not "A" might God).
laffy4christ 2 years ago
What a red herring this Michael thing is.
If he is Michael and you don't believe that, it does not matter. If he is not Michael and we believe he is, it does not matter. His being Michael or not does not change what happened between Luke 1:1 and when he ascended to heaven.
However, I believe that Rev 12 was prophesied for Jesus.
sklemetti 2 years ago
sklemetti,
christians also have plenty of printing companies that we use to distribute literature, but they are not the VOICE of God. besides, ur belief that the WTBTS is the VOICE of God is NOWHERE to be found in the Bible either. You can't prove it with scripture..however, you may try to apply certain scripture to urselves, it's just not there!
laffy4christ 2 years ago
sklemetti, Please show us where in the Bible it states that Blood transfusions are forbidden. You are using WTS logic rather than common sense. Try to use your mental capabilities.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
Acts 15 says to abstain from blood. We consider that blood transfusions fulfill that.
Where is the harm in refusing blood? It is not as if refusing blood has bad results. Unless your doctor uses stone knives and bear skins.
But hey, if you want blood, it is your choice.
sklemetti 2 years ago
sklemetti said: "We never state that our understanding is the truth. That is not what is meant by the truth."
Here we go, JW's backpedaling and putting their feet in their mouths. JW's have said for decades that they have the 'truth'. Are you saying that through 'new light', TRUTH has a different meaning....now? When I was a JW, we would say to visiting JW, "how long you've been in the TRUTH". That's what it meant, that the JW belief and interpretation of the bible... JW's have the TRUTH.
poconoporker 2 years ago
How can I backpedal from something that I never said?
NO, for decades we used the phrase 'are you in the truth'? That meant to be in the congregation, not a doctrinal rundown.
Truth has only one meaning, it does not change. But we use the word in a manner to show that we strive for that truth. That is why it can and does change. Those that criticize changes and JWs are satisfied with being wrong.
Hey, if you are satisfied with being wrong, that is your choice. We aren't.
sklemetti 2 years ago