You can add to that list....Our Paddy Boy, Sovereign Red, Gold and Black and Belmura Lad.
The only reason Octagonal's opposition won more G1's than KT's is because Kingston Town won more G1's than Octagonal so there were less G1's up for grabs.
Don't forget Dulcify beat Double Century in the Derby via a protest yet KT whipped Double Century's butt every time. We all know how good Dulcify was.
Kingston Town was an absolute Champion! To those who think Octagonal was better....how far would Kingston Town have beaten Arkady by? My tip is a telescope would be required..not a camera!
Octaganal was a champion no doubt about it. But he wasnt in the kings league. This horse would of had to be in the field of a dream race of alltime champions from around the world. The big O was a once in a generation horse. The King was a once in a lifetime horse.
KIngston Towns 37 placings in 41 starts puts him up there in the all time greats list. I rate him the best Australian race horse ever and was lucky enough to see him run a few times including his first win. I personally think Peter Cooks ride on KT was near perfect for his 3rd Cox Plate win. Cookie didn't think he was going to do it but the old fella grew another leg once he kicked into the straight.
Great horse. I seemed to always back the losers like Grosvenor and Waverley Star. I was at the course each time the King won. However, I got my money back on Manikato at 6/1! Kingston Town reminded me a lot of Cigar, who I also saw racing.
I was Ming Dynasty's strapper in those golden days and Ming beat him as a 7 yr old in the Caulfield Cup but KT hated Caulfield. He was the most versatile athlete I ever saw and I think he rates with Tulloch. He could sprint 5 furlongs and yet got beat a neck in the Melbourne Cup with top weight after taking the lead early in the stretch. Make no mistake KT was an all time great and I was saddened to hear of his passing.
KIngston town the greatest we have seen just to remind u guys he won 3 cox plates in a row weight for age!! not a crappy handicap race,to compare,remember how great everyone thought sunline was??she went for a third cox plate,came up short,The King lives on forever!!!!!
Blackmourning: you must be joking. Consider the horses Kingston Town whipped: Mighty Kingdom, Ming Dynasty, Axeman, Grosvenor, Family of Man, Lawman, Rare Farm, Getting Closer, Double Century, Hyperno. He raced in a much stronger era than Octagonal.
The horses you named were inconsistant and apart from Hyperno and Mighty Kingdom didn't win more than two G1's each. They raced one another and would pop up in a handicap event or a Brisbane major then struggle to replicate that form when it mattered.
Octagonal's 3yr old season was against Nothin Leica Dane who won VRC Derby, Spring Champion and 2nd in Melb Cup all at 3yrs . Saintly won Cox Plate, Aust. Cup and Mel. Cup while Filante broke Rand mile rec + 2nd Cox x 2.
OCTAGONAL won the Cox Plate in as an early 3yr old then followed in up in the autumn with four G1's in five weeks !!! Canterbury Guineas, Rosehill Guineas, Mercedes Classic and AJC Derby.
In his Group 1 wins he beat top class horses like Mahogany, Saintly, Veandercross, Jeune, All Our Mob, Juggler, Filante, Doriemus, Our Maizcay, Nothin Leica Dane, Stoney Bay and Danewin.
Not bad for a horse that wasn't gelded.
Kingston Town was a great horse but Octagonal's 3yr old season rates higher.
@blackmourning11 Sorry man, but as an autumn 3yo, after missing the first leg of the Triple crown coz he was lame for a couple of weeks and after not having a serious gallop for 3 weeks Kingston town came out and won 4 G1's in 3 weeks R'hill Guineas,Tancred stakes,Ajc Derby,Sydney Cup.If he wasn't lame and missed the Canterbury Gns he would have won that too,which would have made it 5 G1,s in 5 weeks.Also his shortest winning margin in those races was 3.5 lengths.
@blackmourning11 ,Besides Saintly who peak later in his career,the other horses u have mentioned are good average horses,where as KT faced better horses
plus u cant compare Oct to KT,KT is legendary Oct was very good
Like every year, there are horses who are the best around at the time and these years are no diff. Easy to say the opposition is not so good when they havent won any big time races I spose. There were a few that didnt run a place in some of these races that were pretty handy, Family of Man, Karaman etc. Definately better fields than '86 outside of Waverly Star and Bonecrusher
The Horses he was was versing weren't champions but you just have to look at his Cox Plate times and they're extremely competitive with the times being run today.
Here are some facts for you KT had 41 starts for 30 wins, 5 seconds, 2 thirds and 2 fourths. He won 26 group races from 1200m to 3200m, including 14 group 1's. He won grp 1's in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane & Perth. Total winnings, converted to today's values, would be approx $20 million. He was that good trainers avoided placing their horses against him. His opposition wasn't weak, he just made them look that way. There is no horse in the last 30 years that compares to him - ask Bart Cummings.
Kingston Town's opposition may not have been poor but it did lack that top class opposition that could really test.
Think of Octagonal who had to deal with Saintly, Filante and Nothin Leica Dane OR a few years back with Northerly, Sunline, Tie The Knot, Shogun Lodge and Lonhro. To win a Group 1 you had to knock over other champions.
Don't get me wrong, watching him win the Tancred Stakes + Sydney Cup off a fast pace is breath taking, the way he explodes away just isn't done at G1 level.
The Melbourne racing press are quite good with there assessments of interstate horses. Its the "bandwagon" press, the ones who no nothing about racing who bob up each carnival time, that label horses based on there records and not there ability or situations. These are the "experts" who say things like, "People are saying....." or "Some would say....." They never put their names to the crap comments, they hide behind these poor statements by saying everyone elses think them too. And they dont.
You can add to that list....Our Paddy Boy, Sovereign Red, Gold and Black and Belmura Lad.
The only reason Octagonal's opposition won more G1's than KT's is because Kingston Town won more G1's than Octagonal so there were less G1's up for grabs.
Don't forget Dulcify beat Double Century in the Derby via a protest yet KT whipped Double Century's butt every time. We all know how good Dulcify was.
melbsteve 3 weeks ago
Kingston Town was an absolute Champion! To those who think Octagonal was better....how far would Kingston Town have beaten Arkady by? My tip is a telescope would be required..not a camera!
melbsteve 3 weeks ago
Octaganal was a champion no doubt about it. But he wasnt in the kings league. This horse would of had to be in the field of a dream race of alltime champions from around the world. The big O was a once in a generation horse. The King was a once in a lifetime horse.
SoulSurvivor79 8 months ago
KIngston Towns 37 placings in 41 starts puts him up there in the all time greats list. I rate him the best Australian race horse ever and was lucky enough to see him run a few times including his first win. I personally think Peter Cooks ride on KT was near perfect for his 3rd Cox Plate win. Cookie didn't think he was going to do it but the old fella grew another leg once he kicked into the straight.
enforcer41 1 year ago
Great horse. I seemed to always back the losers like Grosvenor and Waverley Star. I was at the course each time the King won. However, I got my money back on Manikato at 6/1! Kingston Town reminded me a lot of Cigar, who I also saw racing.
SugarTomAppleRoger 2 years ago
I was Ming Dynasty's strapper in those golden days and Ming beat him as a 7 yr old in the Caulfield Cup but KT hated Caulfield. He was the most versatile athlete I ever saw and I think he rates with Tulloch. He could sprint 5 furlongs and yet got beat a neck in the Melbourne Cup with top weight after taking the lead early in the stretch. Make no mistake KT was an all time great and I was saddened to hear of his passing.
morristonian 2 years ago
KIngston town the greatest we have seen just to remind u guys he won 3 cox plates in a row weight for age!! not a crappy handicap race,to compare,remember how great everyone thought sunline was??she went for a third cox plate,came up short,The King lives on forever!!!!!
1manikato 2 years ago
Blackmourning: you must be joking. Consider the horses Kingston Town whipped: Mighty Kingdom, Ming Dynasty, Axeman, Grosvenor, Family of Man, Lawman, Rare Farm, Getting Closer, Double Century, Hyperno. He raced in a much stronger era than Octagonal.
rimbaud100 3 years ago
"Much Stronger" No.
The horses you named were inconsistant and apart from Hyperno and Mighty Kingdom didn't win more than two G1's each. They raced one another and would pop up in a handicap event or a Brisbane major then struggle to replicate that form when it mattered.
Octagonal's 3yr old season was against Nothin Leica Dane who won VRC Derby, Spring Champion and 2nd in Melb Cup all at 3yrs . Saintly won Cox Plate, Aust. Cup and Mel. Cup while Filante broke Rand mile rec + 2nd Cox x 2.
blackmourning11 2 years ago
OCTAGONAL won the Cox Plate in as an early 3yr old then followed in up in the autumn with four G1's in five weeks !!! Canterbury Guineas, Rosehill Guineas, Mercedes Classic and AJC Derby.
In his Group 1 wins he beat top class horses like Mahogany, Saintly, Veandercross, Jeune, All Our Mob, Juggler, Filante, Doriemus, Our Maizcay, Nothin Leica Dane, Stoney Bay and Danewin.
Not bad for a horse that wasn't gelded.
Kingston Town was a great horse but Octagonal's 3yr old season rates higher.
blackmourning11 2 years ago
@blackmourning11 Sorry man, but as an autumn 3yo, after missing the first leg of the Triple crown coz he was lame for a couple of weeks and after not having a serious gallop for 3 weeks Kingston town came out and won 4 G1's in 3 weeks R'hill Guineas,Tancred stakes,Ajc Derby,Sydney Cup.If he wasn't lame and missed the Canterbury Gns he would have won that too,which would have made it 5 G1,s in 5 weeks.Also his shortest winning margin in those races was 3.5 lengths.
Do your research next time
Black5heep62 7 months ago
@blackmourning11 ,Besides Saintly who peak later in his career,the other horses u have mentioned are good average horses,where as KT faced better horses
plus u cant compare Oct to KT,KT is legendary Oct was very good
manikato75 1 year ago
he is the best ever. 1200m to 2 mile and slaugtered all comers- 4 bad feet, the best there has been in this country.
fairbeat 3 years ago
Dont forget Kingston town won the bulk of his races with bad joints,Basically he was beating them with 3 legs.
russrules 4 years ago
Could someone please verify his greatness by naming the placegetters of all three races and what Group 1's they had won.
blackmourning11 4 years ago
Lawman: Doncaster Hcp, Feehan Stk(2), St George Stk. R/Up Aust Cup and 3rd to Dulcify in Cox plate.
Grosvenor:VRC Sires Prod, Placed in Blue Diamond and Golden Slipper. Gloaming Stk, Spring Champion Stk, Caulfield Gns, VRC Derby
tigerrish 4 years ago
I like Grosvenor and he went on to do some great things at stud but seriously what did he do AFTER here?
The fact is that Kingston Town's opposition wasn't so different to that which Makybe Diva faced.
The big difference is that he was a great 3yr old and continued on as an older horse but there's no doubt that the opposition was weak.
blackmourning11 4 years ago
Like every year, there are horses who are the best around at the time and these years are no diff. Easy to say the opposition is not so good when they havent won any big time races I spose. There were a few that didnt run a place in some of these races that were pretty handy, Family of Man, Karaman etc. Definately better fields than '86 outside of Waverly Star and Bonecrusher
tigerrish 4 years ago
The Horses he was was versing weren't champions but you just have to look at his Cox Plate times and they're extremely competitive with the times being run today.
sdahowr 4 years ago
The times Kingston Town ran has no relevance to any of the races over the past 10 years as the track is very different.
One advantage for KT is that the finishing post was futher down the straight while the track was ordinary turf.
The only thing I can see that would have suited him today is the give in the track may have made him feel more comfortable.
blackmourning11 4 years ago
Here are some facts for you KT had 41 starts for 30 wins, 5 seconds, 2 thirds and 2 fourths. He won 26 group races from 1200m to 3200m, including 14 group 1's. He won grp 1's in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane & Perth. Total winnings, converted to today's values, would be approx $20 million. He was that good trainers avoided placing their horses against him. His opposition wasn't weak, he just made them look that way. There is no horse in the last 30 years that compares to him - ask Bart Cummings.
kandm43 4 years ago 3
Kingston Town's opposition may not have been poor but it did lack that top class opposition that could really test.
Think of Octagonal who had to deal with Saintly, Filante and Nothin Leica Dane OR a few years back with Northerly, Sunline, Tie The Knot, Shogun Lodge and Lonhro. To win a Group 1 you had to knock over other champions.
Don't get me wrong, watching him win the Tancred Stakes + Sydney Cup off a fast pace is breath taking, the way he explodes away just isn't done at G1 level.
blackmourning11 3 years ago
wonder if he would have won the 3rd on the track today.
Strathayr and the finish post 40m closer.
blackmourning11 4 years ago
Still gives me the shivers. The best.
rimbaud100 4 years ago
Greatest horse ever. Could win from 1200 to 3200m. Won 3 Cox Plates with three different Jocks.
Jabowie19 4 years ago
Greatest horse in the modern era..maybe.
Remember even after he won his first Cox Plate the Melbourne press were still calling him a "Sydney Champ"
I remember Tie The Knot going through the same thing. Unfortunately a useful mare named Sunline stopped him from scoring a Cox Plate.
A Melbourne Cup win against some good stayers would have placed him in the top 3 of all time.
blackmourning11 4 years ago
The Melbourne racing press are quite good with there assessments of interstate horses. Its the "bandwagon" press, the ones who no nothing about racing who bob up each carnival time, that label horses based on there records and not there ability or situations. These are the "experts" who say things like, "People are saying....." or "Some would say....." They never put their names to the crap comments, they hide behind these poor statements by saying everyone elses think them too. And they dont.
tigerrish 4 years ago
how good was that black horse on the outside when Bill Collins called "kingston town cant win" AND FLASHED HOME....GREAT STUFF
tapers97 4 years ago