Isn't it funny how mormons always ban together to attack things like this? 115 dislikes to a man who makes more sense then their entire religion? You mormons don't have to be afraid of the truth! Just face it, in watching this video you know your religion has been disproven, but you will still go your entire life pretending its real, and making up excuses to protect a false religion. I'm not preaching any one religion as being the "true religion" but at least they weren't invented out of a hat
“For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round" - 1 Nephi 10:19”
@scottwins2 Joe says "by the power of God I translated the BofM from hieroglyphs, the knowledge of which was Lost to The Ages". Joe claims Anthon saw (Reformed Egyptian) "the Characters which had been Translated". Anthon described theTranslation as the best he had seen. How cold Anthon know what Champollion had not taught to Anthon, Egyptian? Had Joe taught E' to Anthon or Champy?!Anthon says he saw silly Roman, Hebrew, and Greek, "Anything But Egyptian". I wonder who tells the truth
Abraham Lincoln had his office in his hat so what else is new? Joseph used the hat from time to time to keep the room light out so he could see better.
Clearly God does NOT communicate with His people by having a person stick his face in a hat with a rock! Any TRUE Christian knows that would be RIDICULOUS! Rather, TRUE Christians know that when God wants to communicate with His people He turns Himself into a bush and lights himself on fire. Now THAT is a God we can believe in. Makes perfect sense.
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As I understand it no one saw Joseph translating the Book of Mormon. A curtain separated him from his scribe. Also since the Urim and Thummim was composed of a device with two stones known as "seers" wouldn't it be easy to get these mixed up with seer stones? Also Joseph translated much of the Book of Mormon without aid from the Urim and Thummim. He got better at receiving direct revelation later in the translation process. After 30 years studying the LDS the man in the video should know this.
@mezz077 you have got to be joking. you say "He got better at receiving direct revelation" like the Egyptian papyri translation. not even close. total BS.
@leej70 Interesting that you make that comment because Mormons tend to have large families. Also, Mormons tend to be some of the most educated people on Earth. Yeah, anyone that believes this should be prevented from having children. You might want to think about your comment.
@Whateverintheworld Ok i'll think about it...done, yep i was right. If you're defending this because you believe it then you are the one that needs to have a think about things - using seer stones to decipher god's word through a hat? Yeah ok.
@Whateverintheworld No i don't follow through with all my thoughts like that, but some things can be deduced very quickly, especially when it comes to 19th century Americans claiming to have met god and jesus and then deciphering their message through a hat using seer stones.......and after he did decode it all and had it written down it got lost so had to do it all over but guess what??? It all came out slightly differently - but that's how god wanted it!!! PURE LUNACY.
@Jack44M how is joseph smith a con man liar and a false prophet? you made these wild claims back them up,if this stupid mckeever guy tried to sell you a piece of shit you would buy it from him
Smith got money for using his peep stone to find nonexistent treasure. Fact...see court records.
A false prophet is one who issues false prophecies...which Smith did on a number of occasions. Fact....look at his temple prophecy concerning Independence MO.
@Jack44M yeah i have heard that stupid arguement before,nope i am happy with my faith i just dont put up with all the lies and crap that you,so lying for Jesus is your faith? must be!
@Jack44M so why dont you focus on your faith instead dwelling on ours? are you that insecure in your beliefs that you go around trying to tear down others?,some of his prophecies have yet come to pass but keep on being ignorant of the mormons,keep up the poor work asshole!
The really amazing thing to me is so many of the people who doubt Joseph Smith's story (and rightly so) and also doubt the validity of Mohammed and the Quran (and rightly so) somehow accept the bible, which was written my mostly unknown authors, as being real. At least Smith was a real person, while there is no evidence Moses ever existed. If Christians looked at their own fables with the same logic and reason with which they view Mormonism and Islam, there would be no Christians in the world.
A little truth is better than no truth, eh? Towards the end of the translating he cold traslate without them, sometimes he used a hat for convenience. Its possible that the Bow did not fit him very well since he was a pretty big man. he was about ^' 220 llbs. The Lord turned water to wine. You would think people thought Jesus crazy! Moses turned the water to Blood! How is it you question the ways of the Lord? Joseph was not in folk magic, Some corrections editorial in nature by the printer.
I have always been impressed that every person that witnessed seeing the the plates, died having never changed their testimony! I place my name side by side with those who testified that The Book of Mormon is the word of God! I have received a personal witness that it is true.
@sachamo100 The problem is that the deeper you look, the more you find that their testimony was not a plain eye-witness testimony of seeing the physical plates, but rather a kind of spiritualized, visionary experience of seeing the plates with the "eyes of faith". See mrm[dot]org/eleven-witnesses
@aaronshaf2006 sorry mrm.org is not a source for mormon truth in fact 90 percent of their "claims"are based on half truths and full lies,i suggest you do some actual research before you come in here with a pack of lies
@sachamo100 Serious question: What exactly is a "personal witness"? Is it a message from God? Did you hear God talking to you? Out loud? In your head? Was it a written message? Did you have a vision of God? Or was it just a feeling? I'm really interested. How did you know that was a message from God?
I find that compelling too, but James Strang also produced gold plates and had many witnesses that he translated them into a book called "The Book of the Law of the Lord." None of his witnesses revoked their testimony either.
"By the power of God I translated the Book of Mormon from hieroglyphics, the knowledge of which was lost to the world, in which wonderful event I stood alone, an unlearned youth, to combat the worldly wisdom and multiplied ignorance of eighteen centuries, with a new revelation.The Book of Mormon is true, just what it purports to be, and for this testimony I expect to give an account in the day of judgment." Joseph Smith Jr.
Mormons: Seriously? This is best you can come up with? Joseph Smith, a con-man? You actually believe this crap? Why didn't Jesus or the Bible have prophecy of Joseph Smith? Unless this it:
Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Don't dare? I will, LDS people were driven from place to place, woman raped, children beaten, homes destroyed, Temple burned, men shot and driven again,& again westward. You are out of line, these people were not so deserving even as of the likes of you are not deserving, whatsoever. So you would have murderd Joseph and Hyram in COLD BLOOD when you say it was justified?!!!? My religion is false ? Thats as if you were a fly telling a honey bee the hive is not a good place to live. Reprobate
can you feel the evil in this video? Absolutely a lack of the
spirit in it. Quite the opposite of what I felt and knew and still know within one hour of meeting with the missionaries, Elder Wendt and Elder Peterson. The Holy Ghost was so powerful and I will never deny it. Joseph Smith has done more for the salvation of man other than Jesus Christ, than any other man who ever lived!
Prisoner [Joseph Smith] brought before Court March 20, 1826. Prisoner examined: says that he .... had a certain stone which he had occasionally looked at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he professed to tell in this manner where gold mines were a distance under ground.
And therefore the Court find[s] the Defendant guilty. Costs: Warrant, 19c. Complaint upon oath, 25½c. Seven witnesses, ." (Frazer's Magazine, February, 1873, pp. 229-30)
IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself by the fruit you see.
Joseph Smith spoke to me once. Now lithium usually stops me from getting to that point, but not always. Sometimes I can still hear his revelations, but it can be hard to sleep if he keeps talking so I usually take the lithium.
A small replica of these gold plates can cure anything from cancer to bankruptcy. You're going to see restoration, you're gon-a see miracles in your life. The price? It's free, absolutely free! " FREE' but that promise of Godly miracles comes with a earthly request. 750 of MY followers ARE turning over all worldly goods for the privilege of joining. I invite you to do the same. Before you give me everything, I feel led to ask youto prove God with a $20 offering."
@enchantedsummer08 Thank U for Ur comment. U would not believe how many people have wanted to send me money. I think most people R just plain stupid. This posting proves to me how easy it is to be a JSmith fraud, which he was, & cause the money, power, & authority to fall to him.
J Smith found a brown rock while digging a well & claimed it to be a "seer stone" He subsequently would tell people where to dig for treasure, none was ever found, was later prosecuted for fraud
@enchantedsummer08 I saw your comment, There are only two, religions in the world that stir mens hearts so. Its Judism,and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Yet they are related. You will notice on the interent that the hatred for this religion is great yet its teachings are love thy neighbor, live God fearing lives and Love Christ... where is my error? Study, Pray, and ask. Write if you like. Like to here from you. lds.org
@scottwins2 ok well thanx for that, but I didnt want a sermon... I will stick with the old time religon if you dont mind. atleast we dont try to force our beliefes on anyone. please dont write back...
May I refer you to Voices from the Dust by Glenn A. Scott. Available at:
School of Saints
520 W. Maple
Indep.,MO 64050
Fax 816-833-0491 24-h
Brother Scott has performed considerable archeological studies in South America. In his book you will find ample proof. The Book of Mormon is also available here. In the last few pages of the BOM is a promise for you. If you read the book with an honest desire to know it is true, asking God, you will know beyond a doubt. Please pray.
@3511able HAHAHHAHAHA............BOM IS A SATANIC LIE.......JOE SMITH WAS A NASTY MAN WHORE OF SATAN.......WITH A HOUSE FULL OF NASTY MORMON WHORES FOR HIS PERSONAL SEXUAL PLEASURES.............MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN...........
@eitoobmiz they are messed up, but joe smith only had 1 wife it was good old "breed'em young" (Brigham Young) that had 26 wifes. his belief was if they are old enough to bleed they are old enough to breed. His youngest wife was 11 years old
100+ dislikes on this video!! hhhmmm i wonder why? i bet the mormons get mad because they know deep inside that these plates are only imaginary just like star/planet kolob, hill cumorah(both hill cumorah) and a lot more
Allah/zues/amon ra/horus/thor/shiva/jesuschrist/jupiter/chak/kukulcan/baal/krishna/vishnu/apollo/juno/mithras/ and hundreds more pick one or many makes no difference to me but don't expect me to believe in your man made god or phony in it for themselves profits I meant prophets. I am open to the possiblity of GOD but isn't it just as likely that the universe created us/life.
Here's the first few questions I ask Mormons: How do you know the BOM is the word of God? Where are the plates Smith supposedly wrote from? If Mormon evidence is based on faith, why can't the Islamic, Hindu or Buddha, Jehovah Witness, etc. be based on faith? In other words, why is your faith based religion true and you claim their faith based religon isn't true? The Mormon chat line people usually end the conversation after I ask these questions. Care to answer TRic, Trolan?
@debra53758 Islam, etc can't be real like Mormonism, it doesn't have special gold plates for which there is no evidence. Because Islam doesn't have the appeal to authority in regards to an invisible book. Because faith is materialistic in Mormonism except when dealing when any Mormon claim to it's books, anthropology, archeology, etc, then it must be faith on the most absurd invisible impossible claims. Mormonism is Double Bind Theory and no one except a silly ass white boy would swallow it....
I've even been on the Mormon chat line many times trying to reason with them. Not once has anyone been able to give me one good reason why I should believe their hogwash religion. The Mormon missionaries all dress and look alike. I can spot them in a car because they have that look that's so obviously Mormon. I feel sorry for them because they're stuck in this BS unless they will be excommunicated if they leave the religion and it's too scary for most of them to do that.
I've been studying religions for a few years and I've found most of them have much in common with each other. They all have a leader who they base their beliefs on, they all think they're the only true religion, they tend to be clannish and cultish. The Mormon religin is one of the worst for brainwashing as the mormons I know and talk to can't answer REAL questions that CHALLENGE their faith. I've tried but gave up talking to them as they don't think.
@debra53758 Exactly what the adversary wants you to think. Problem with what seems to be ur conclusion of the LDS faith is, U like many many others are using ur mortal logic to look for spritual answers that only come from above. Believe it or not The Holy Ghost really exists,He IS part of the Godhead and ONLY HE can reveal the truthfulness of the Lords gospel to those who seek it in sincere prayer to Our Heavenly Father.You have much to learn an should not bask in ur manmade opinions.
@debra53758 THE MORMON MISSIONARIES CAME TO MY HOUSE RECENTLY AND WHEN THEY DISCOVERED I WASN'T A ZOMBIE THEY SAID"WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME HERE, WE NEED TO GO" HAHAHAHAHA FLED WHEN I GAVE THEM SOME TRUTH.
Lord help the "True Church" to fulfill everything you have spoken, and divert from the nonsence of joe smith, Amen.
bibtruth(DOT)com/mtest.html
mormonconspiracy(DOT)com/brain-washing.html
exmormon(DOT)org/
mormontruth.blogspot(DOT)com
Please take the time to read a piece of other beliefs to let those choose. A true church would not obligate you to "Donate" ten percent of household income. Why, you ask? You cannot buy your self into the one and only Heaven.
@actutus Once you seriously examine the miracle claims in the Bible you have to conclude that they are just as ludicrous as the Mormon claims are. The problem is, most Christians can point out Mormon fakery but can't see their own Bible fakery. I used to be Christian and can attest to this fact. Now I don't have religion I can see so clearly that the Bible, BOM, are just fabrications written by men to control people.
@debra53758 Debra, you are a miracle. Not in a religious way, I just like what you're saying. You seem like a really intelligent woman who has learned a lot in life :D
The irony is how various Christian factions use scientific evidence to argue against the doctrines of the LDS church. Yet, these same anti-LDS factions howl with anger when scientific evidence argues against all Christian mythology. This includes nonsense such as intelligent design, all "miracles" of Jesus, the lack of substantive archeological/ geological evidence for most of the Bible's events (e.g., floods, Solomon's cities), the existence of Jehovah/ Yahweh/ God, the list of goes on.
Why is he wasting his time trying to find a loop hole which will, in the insignificant form, raise doubts into peoples minds, and then therefore lead them away? Why aren't they studying the teachings, and being taught to ask of God themselves? And why is he, in what appears to be in his church, be mocking our church? Is there fear of his members becoming members of ours? That's all it is, and that's all it will ever continue to be. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A LATTER-DAY SAINT DO THIS TO HIS CLASS?!?!?!
@Allmighty193, So you enjoy being lied to just because the moral of the story is good? Many people want to find truth in life, and they don't just settle for the best told story. I've learned far more than I ever would after leaving the mormon church. And for all of you who are mormon, you might as well call yourself a cabbalist also. The mormon church is nothing more than beliefs of the Kabbalah.If you don't know about the Kabbalah, I urge you to check it out. Or just stay blinded to truth!
@praestant8 Actually, Mormonism is an amalgamation of ideas he borrowed from not only the Bible but also other faiths. Just compare it's hierarchy to that of the Catholic Church. Compare its teachings to Methodism and its theology to Arminianism and Pelagianism. Of course, there is the issue regarding the novel Manuscript Found as well.
The organization and doctrines of the church are a regrouping of the true doctrines and organization of God's original church structure. This includes changes in methods of worship. In the pre-Christ era Gods church sacrificed animals as symbolic atonement for sin. With the last blood sacrifice accepted being the suffering and death of Christ this law was taken away. Gods church is a living church.
@krkr8m There's no such thing as the "original church." Otherwise christians would still be sacrificing lambs at the temple because what came after the original church established at the time of Adam and eve and then through Moses would also be irrelevant. How is you logic unflawed again? Mormonism is not a restoration of anything. It is a false gospel wrapped in bad interpretations of Christianity because Joey didn't get it.
@praestant8 Of course there is an original church. I expect we may disagree on the point of origination. The religion practiced by the old testement prophets was Christianity. They knew Christ would come and many people recognized him when he came.
I, being accused of intellectualism, was told that Satan was oppressing me when my questions got too difficult. I was totally sincere in my interest. But instead, I was accused of the sin of intellectualism. Since then, I have learned not to trust anyone who tells me to stick my head in the sand and believe. I also gave up on do-do religion.
@MrNickKane In my opinion, God is an intelligent being who wants His children to gain all knowledge and truth. God's doctrine and the truths of the universe are not at odds with each other in the least degree.
Any religious group who defends free-will and then gives me a list of extra Biblical things to do and not to do is a group who has no understanding of the cross. To rebuild what Christ nailed to the cross is to re-crucify the Lord God Almighty. Read Hebrews carefully. Like Pauls contemporaries I will not be a dog who returns to his own vomit.
@MrNickKane Free-will is the ability to make a choice. How can anyoune make a choice without options. Your options are good and evil. God has given a so-called list of good things. This very act gives free will.
McKeever is lying to us by quoting Mormon materials? Seems that the problem is with LDS propaganda and historians not McKeever, then again, the Mormon evidences and propaganda has always been kind of malleable. Just watch James White debate the LDS, have you ever seen anyone depend so much on ambiguity and relativism?
Such profanity from an alleged member of the church. Gasp! I sure hope you aren't violating the sanctity of the temple by walking in to it obviously unworthy to enter.
How is quoting from church approved sources that even you apologists like to quote from to bolster your cases and using simple logic deception? If that's the case how is deceiving whom? Your empty generalizations, as with most apologetic explanations, are in this case baseless.
No haircut, under garments, abstaining from caffeinated candy bars, belief God is near Kolob, family home evening, two-year mission, Temple visit, no 10% tithe (which is less that the OT requirement), prophet (lowly man), Book of Mormon (and it revisions) or any other Caucasian reinstitution of Judaism is going to get me closer to God.
The true Church only points in one direction and that towards God alone. It has no boundaries, no bricks or mortar. It does not yoke or burden its people. Its law is only the love of God and others. All its residents are priests. Chastisement is not a condemnation, but an assurance of sonship. In Christ we have liberty and we are free indeed.
@MrNickKane I believe that God himself has directed the order of His true church and that it is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS or Mormonism).
The words Urim and Thummim are ancient Hebrew words that did not make it to the west while Smith was alive. How then did he know the words if not from God?
Google the words Urim and Thummim and you'll find many other non-Mormon sources.
Friend - Joe took them right out of the Bible where they have been printed for a long time, just like where he stole the rest of his ideas for the BoM. See Ex 28:30, Lev 8:8, Num 27:21, Deut 22:8,
@praestant8 - So are you agreeing that they are biblical and in keeping with Christianity?
If you claim that God was the ultimate source of the Bible and that those ideas were stolen from the Bible, how could he have plagiarized the bible if he claims that those very words are from God?
@praestant8 My theory may sound like conjecture but the fact remains the Mormons admit that Joe Smith went through a period of studying various Christian beliefs while trying to find the true church. One does not have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce the fact that Mormonism is a cut and paste religion. A compilation of pre-existing beliefs mixed with the Bible & plagiarized fiction.
I very much agree. Some have called Joe a synthesizer of many things that became mormonism. Nothings was ever given to Joe all at once. Things were a constant progression of new and evolving ideas. God didn't give the ten commandments one at a time over a period of decades.
@praestant8 Joseph Smith's 13th Article of Faith says that "If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."
We do not accept or reject ideas based on their age but on their merit.
@MrNickKane Smith's willingness and efforts to find the truth through inquiry and study only show that he was looking for a true knowledge of God. Remember, he was 13 to 14 years old during this study.
He did not steal anything since he cited his source (God).
Circular logic requires that one of the premises assumed to be true is in fact false. So which premise is untrue? If none, then it is not a logical fallacy.
Do you claim that God was the ultimate source of the Bible?
Does the Book of Mormon utilize ideas and text from the Bible?
If a writer cites their source is the use considered plagiarism or stealing?
Did Joseph Smith claim that the Book of Mormon was ultimately from God?
@krkr8m No, Joe said it is "another testament of Jesus Christ" as in what was originally said in the Bible apparently wasn't good enough so he had to say something additional to Jews that came to America. But see Jews don't believe in the Bible or in Christ as the savior so that is an issue already! That has proven to be false! You obviously aren't getting the point. So let me ask you this. Do you believe the D&C to be the word of God too? Is that in fact revelation from God?
@praestant8 Yes the revealed Doctrine and Covenants of the LDS church are the word of God.
The Jewish religious group believe the Old Testement yet do not believe that Christ has come to the earth yet. They expected a war like savior who would fight the Romans in physical battle. Christ was an Israelite and so were all of the first 12 apostles.
@praestant8 Yes, Old Testement, New Testement, Another Testement. Is the Old Testement complete without the New Testement or vice versa? I believe they are not complete wihtout the Book of Mormon. It is not that complicated.
Yes, and David Koresh claimed that his inspiration was from God. As did Mohammed, as did Buddha as did Stan Lee. Such a claim in and of itself does not automatically validate the supposed evidence for inspiration. One also cannot allow the claimant to designate the standards for validation. Joe Smith cannot be his own expert.
@MrNickKane The standard is lain out in the Bible. "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God..." I have asked God and he has answered my prayers. I know that God speaks to each of us individually if we seek him.
Wisdom is one thing but the Bible does make a distinction between wisdom and knowledge. There is no Salvation by any of them but only through Christ. To think differently is salvation by gnosis and that is Gnosticism.
I personally could not continue my belief that Joseph Smith was a true prophet based on a blind rationalization. The only evidence ever given to me were eyewitnesses who were neither archaeologists nor ancient linguistic experts. I saw the plates is nothing more than hearsay evidence in a court of law as it should be to anyone becoming a Mormon. Faith is not a matter of pure ignorance.
@MrNickKane Knowledge of God does not require "blind faith". You can recieve a testimony of the truth straight from the source. Pray to God and ask Him for yourself.
Unlike the BOM, there is not only plenty of external evidence (manuscript and historical) but the Bible is self testifying in both its fulfillment of prophecy (Ex 70AD) and in its typological nature. Also, no prophet was ever left out to dry without some external manifestation of his relationship to God. Moses had the Red Sea. Christ the resurrection.
@MrNickKane Joseph Smith performed many miracles through the power granted him by God. Miracles and signs do not convince the unbeliever else Pharaoh would have let the Israelites go earlier on.
The Bible also does not leave it to the prophets to determine their own validity. God offers His own standard to the people and if the prophet didnt meet the requirements, he was killed. LDS conversely offers flimsy evidence only validated by those of like mind. They also eat their own when like minded people point out the discrepancies. Like myself.
With man, it is impossible to do anything, with God, all things are possible. Without Christ, I can do NOTHING. I am cleansed through the SACRIFICE OF Christ. I am accepted through HIS resurrection. I live by HIS FAITH, I am justified through HIS obedience. I am sanctified trough HIS SPIRIT. I live purely by FAITH ALONE.
The true temple is our body, God does not reside in temples made with human hands, the true Ark of the Covenant is our hearts, the law resides there, its not in some external ordinances. Its not what goes in us that defiles us but what comes out. Everything we have from God comes vicariously through Christ alone.
I believe that Christ fulfilled the Old Testament and restored to whole House of Israel. He (being the anti-type) also abolished the necessity for the types. Hebrews Chapter 1 teaches that God in the past spoke to us in various ways and manners but now speaks to us through His Son. If I have Christ, why restore a prophet like that of the OT?
@MrNickKane Because Christ speaks through prophets as well. If Christ was "appointed heir of all things" (Heb 1:2), He must also be heir to His Father's methods.
Please understand. I have come to learn that J.Smith thought He was restoring the supposed original Church. What he failed to overlook was the sufficiency of Christ. This is why the Book of Hebrews is so damaging to the LDS, Catholics, the Jews and the Jehovah Witnesses. Hebrews is all about the sufficiency that is in Christ alone.
@MrNickKane Christ is sufficient for everyone. He has given us a path that we must follow to obtain his atonement. Having paid the price for our sins and failures, He has the right to determine who has met His criteria. He does not judge us based upon the quantity of our good works outweiging our bad works for the Lord looketh upon the heart. Yet, our works determine our heart to a great degree. By their works ye shall know them. Our works are a testimony of where our heart is.
No. No. No. No. I'm sorry, you cannot obtain an atonement. This would should show a basic misunderstanding about the atonement in the OT. It was never left up to Israel to decide the sufficiency of the atonement. That was God's sole right. Israel had to wait for the Hight Priest to come out of the Holy of Holies to know if the atonement was accepted. The application was solely God's choice.
As we read books such as 1st John, we start to understand that goods works are not a reaction to salvation but a manifestation that God works in us. God's working in us is a sign of a true believer. If any different then Christ finished nothing. He took the statutes and ordinances and nailed them to the cross. It is finished.
The restoration of anything that Christ has fulfilled becomes a personal attack on His work on the Cross. Either Christ fulfilled it once and for all (Heb 9-10) or He didn't. If any of those in the OT or today could have fulfilled it, then Christ would have served no purpose.
@MrNickKane The LDS church is not a restoration of what Christ fulfilled in the atonement and resurection but a restoration of the order and truths of His church on the earth. His atonement is eternal and could not be lost yet the true knowledge of it on the earth was misplaced and in many respects lost..
Everyone forgets, Christ died and OT death. Fullfilled the OT statutes and law. All that was left was the utter destruction of all the physical remenants of the OT and that was done in 70ad. As he prophesied it would Matt 23-24. The law is now written of the flesh of the Ark of the New Testament Covenant, our hearts. Our bodies serve as the temple. It is finished.
The Holy Spirit was sent only to testify of Christ (John 15:26). Where does it teach that the Holy Spirit was sent to testify of Prophets and apostles? Christ didn't come to build a Church but to restore His people (Israel) by His death and resurrection (Heb 8:10). There was no Covenant ever made to the Gentiles. Take a look.
@MrNickKane The Holy Spirit testifies of Christ and the truths that Christ taught and teaches today. The Holy Spirit will not testify of a prophet or apostle's church but only of Christ's church.
The Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints is "His people (Israel)". Those very few who are not direct decendents of Israel are adopted into the house of Israel. Most LDS peoples have researched their ancestry back to Israel. I am personally a direct decendent of both Ephraim and Manasseh.
Again, the LDS could not trace their lineage back to Israel because the geneologies were destroyed in the destruction of the Temple 70ad. Why do you think the modern Jew cannot do it through their geneology. This is why the Apostle told us not to get caught up in geneologies because he was aware of their pending destruction.
No offense, but this Christ destroyed the idea of Salvation by lineage. Read John's Gospel real carefully (Chapt 1), believers are not born by the will of blood, flesh or man. A Jew would have understood this completely. Then Paul writes, if you be in Christ, then are you Abrahams seed. That there is no more Jew or Gentile. The House of Israels ancestry was destroyed as per Gods pronouncement in the OT. Read Hosea.
Why would God complain about everything the Jews put value in, the law, the temple and so on, send His Son to die and fullfil the law, then destroy everything only to build it all back up again? Why? Joseph Smith never answered that question. In all fairness, many Christians believe the same and can't explain why. They can't because they have no understanding of the OT.
The Holy Spirit was sent only to testify of Christ (John 15:26). Where does it teach that the Holy Spirit was sent to testify of Prophets and apostles? Christ didn't come to build a Church but to restore His people (Israel) by His death and resurrection (Heb 8:10). There was no Covenant ever made to the Gentiles. Take a look.
J. Smith made the same mistake many do today, he didn't understand Hebrew Apocalyptic language and He didn't understand the Covenants. He tried to Gentile-ize the OT and failed to see that House of Israel was exiled to the north and this was noted by the Jewish historian Jospehus. They were not lost. The House of Judah knew exactly where they were and noted it.
@MrNickKane If it is known, where are each of the tribes of Israel individually located? Under the OT prophets they were each given specific land to live in and inherit. Why are they not there and where are they now?
Wow! Have you not read Hosea? Isaiah? Who do you think Ezekiel was the prophet to? Do yourself a favor and read the Jewish historian Josephus. He knew as did others. The House of Israel were divorced by God and sent in the countries north of Israel. That is why the Apostles first ministered to the Jew and then those north of Israel. They knew as well.
There is a total lack of understanding by the LDS because their concepts of Covenant and the OT had nothing to do with how OT Israel percieved themselves. They have no sense of typology and fail to understand that all the buildings, statutes, rites and what not were done away with and Christ offers something greater than fleshly ordinances or temples.
In Matt 10:6 Christ tells the 12 to go to the House of Israel. They didnt go to the Americas. Then in Matt 15 Christ says that He ONLY came to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Could not do that in Mid East if they were supposedly lost in North and South America.
Who are the "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10:16
He came to the land of Israel then left and came to the land that is know known as the Americas. In both places he taught decendants of the House of Israel.
Here is what happen when you read anything with presuppositional eyes and not from context. Christ is speaking to the Jews. Obviously, they knew who he was talking about because they didn't ask Him to clarify. If you read Hosea, God divorces House of Israel and then promises to restore them unto Him. They became the second class citizens to Judah.
This is the problem I developed after I left the Mormons. The OT has nothing to do with anglo-saxon concepts or Native Americans. God solely made a covenantal agreement ONLY with Israel. Who is Israel today? Christ. Just as the Jews resided in a Country, we now reside in Him. Notice the use of the word (in) when speaking of our relationship with Him.
The House of Israel wasn't lost geographically. The supposed lost tribes were (lost) in their covenental distinction. They had lost their relationship with God. They had gone out and assimilated themselves with the people of the North and spred outward. But the Jews (Judah) knew where they were on the map all the time. As did the OT writers.
J. Smith was also unaware that Christ never dictated that buildings were ever to be built. The (ekklesia) is a Grk word and (Church) a latinized concept for the covenental people (or body of believers) that Christ came to build. It was never intended to ever be a building and wasn't so for many many decades after Christ's death.
Isn't it funny how mormons always ban together to attack things like this? 115 dislikes to a man who makes more sense then their entire religion? You mormons don't have to be afraid of the truth! Just face it, in watching this video you know your religion has been disproven, but you will still go your entire life pretending its real, and making up excuses to protect a false religion. I'm not preaching any one religion as being the "true religion" but at least they weren't invented out of a hat
Bobbytpt 1 week ago
“For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round" - 1 Nephi 10:19”
THE BOOK OF MORMON
scottwins2 1 week ago
@scottwins2 Joe says "by the power of God I translated the BofM from hieroglyphs, the knowledge of which was Lost to The Ages". Joe claims Anthon saw (Reformed Egyptian) "the Characters which had been Translated". Anthon described theTranslation as the best he had seen. How cold Anthon know what Champollion had not taught to Anthon, Egyptian? Had Joe taught E' to Anthon or Champy?!Anthon says he saw silly Roman, Hebrew, and Greek, "Anything But Egyptian". I wonder who tells the truth
IExposeMormonism 1 week ago
Abraham Lincoln had his office in his hat so what else is new? Joseph used the hat from time to time to keep the room light out so he could see better.
scottwins2 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Guys I have seen a stone tablet that written the BOD himself. He said you should send all your money to me to test your faith.
I read the stone tablets within a garbage can though not a hat. And I used special decoding plastic which allows me to see the light.
lifeismasked 2 months ago
Comment removed
lifeismasked 2 months ago
Clearly God does NOT communicate with His people by having a person stick his face in a hat with a rock! Any TRUE Christian knows that would be RIDICULOUS! Rather, TRUE Christians know that when God wants to communicate with His people He turns Himself into a bush and lights himself on fire. Now THAT is a God we can believe in. Makes perfect sense.
GodVlogger 3 months ago 3
he must have had a magic 8ball....is the book of mormon true? ask again later....is the book true? My sources say no....
SuperCodeman23 4 months ago
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CounterCultureLives 5 months ago
The magic rock in the hat really is an important point that the church has whitewashed. It opens JS up to ridicule.
BelgianBicyclist 5 months ago
As I understand it no one saw Joseph translating the Book of Mormon. A curtain separated him from his scribe. Also since the Urim and Thummim was composed of a device with two stones known as "seers" wouldn't it be easy to get these mixed up with seer stones? Also Joseph translated much of the Book of Mormon without aid from the Urim and Thummim. He got better at receiving direct revelation later in the translation process. After 30 years studying the LDS the man in the video should know this.
mezz077 6 months ago
@mezz077 you have got to be joking. you say "He got better at receiving direct revelation" like the Egyptian papyri translation. not even close. total BS.
kramd1 6 months ago
@mezz077 You deserve an "A" in "Creative Mormon Excuse making 101"!!
CounterCultureLives 5 months ago
Anybody who believes this shit should be prevented from having children
leej70 6 months ago 2
@leej70 Interesting that you make that comment because Mormons tend to have large families. Also, Mormons tend to be some of the most educated people on Earth. Yeah, anyone that believes this should be prevented from having children. You might want to think about your comment.
Whateverintheworld 2 months ago
@Whateverintheworld Ok i'll think about it...done, yep i was right. If you're defending this because you believe it then you are the one that needs to have a think about things - using seer stones to decipher god's word through a hat? Yeah ok.
leej70 2 months ago
@leej70 I wonder if you follow through with all your thoughts like that. You obviously didn't put any thought into it. That explains a lot about you.
Whateverintheworld 2 months ago
@Whateverintheworld No i don't follow through with all my thoughts like that, but some things can be deduced very quickly, especially when it comes to 19th century Americans claiming to have met god and jesus and then deciphering their message through a hat using seer stones.......and after he did decode it all and had it written down it got lost so had to do it all over but guess what??? It all came out slightly differently - but that's how god wanted it!!! PURE LUNACY.
leej70 1 month ago
The Book of Mormon is TRUE....deal with it
TrickTrolan 6 months ago 2
@TrickTrolan
It is true....truly made up by a con man, liar, and false prophet....lol
Jack44M 6 months ago
@Jack44M how is joseph smith a con man liar and a false prophet? you made these wild claims back them up,if this stupid mckeever guy tried to sell you a piece of shit you would buy it from him
getdownto311 1 month ago
@getdownto311
Here's how....
Smith got money for using his peep stone to find nonexistent treasure. Fact...see court records.
A false prophet is one who issues false prophecies...which Smith did on a number of occasions. Fact....look at his temple prophecy concerning Independence MO.
Pull your head out; Mormonism is heresy.
Jack44M 1 month ago
@Jack44M yeah i have heard that stupid arguement before,nope i am happy with my faith i just dont put up with all the lies and crap that you,so lying for Jesus is your faith? must be!
getdownto311 1 month ago
@Jack44M so why dont you focus on your faith instead dwelling on ours? are you that insecure in your beliefs that you go around trying to tear down others?,some of his prophecies have yet come to pass but keep on being ignorant of the mormons,keep up the poor work asshole!
getdownto311 1 month ago
@getdownto311
Thanks for your response....it's good for people to see the true character of Mormons.
Jack44M 1 month ago
@Jack44M `yeah your first wasnt exactly angelic either,so same could be said of you
getdownto311 1 month ago
@getdownto311
Unlike you, I'm not defending a cult so it's good for folks to see just how low class Mormons actually are.
Jack44M 1 month ago
@Jack44M ooo you called us a cult....your so original,like you have any idea what cult is you jackass!
getdownto311 1 month ago
The really amazing thing to me is so many of the people who doubt Joseph Smith's story (and rightly so) and also doubt the validity of Mohammed and the Quran (and rightly so) somehow accept the bible, which was written my mostly unknown authors, as being real. At least Smith was a real person, while there is no evidence Moses ever existed. If Christians looked at their own fables with the same logic and reason with which they view Mormonism and Islam, there would be no Christians in the world.
TheOracle1956 7 months ago
A little truth is better than no truth, eh? Towards the end of the translating he cold traslate without them, sometimes he used a hat for convenience. Its possible that the Bow did not fit him very well since he was a pretty big man. he was about ^' 220 llbs. The Lord turned water to wine. You would think people thought Jesus crazy! Moses turned the water to Blood! How is it you question the ways of the Lord? Joseph was not in folk magic, Some corrections editorial in nature by the printer.
scottwins2 7 months ago
I have always been impressed that every person that witnessed seeing the the plates, died having never changed their testimony! I place my name side by side with those who testified that The Book of Mormon is the word of God! I have received a personal witness that it is true.
sachamo100 7 months ago 4
@sachamo100 The problem is that the deeper you look, the more you find that their testimony was not a plain eye-witness testimony of seeing the physical plates, but rather a kind of spiritualized, visionary experience of seeing the plates with the "eyes of faith". See mrm[dot]org/eleven-witnesses
aaronshaf2006 7 months ago
@aaronshaf2006 The Witnesses state they actually saw, touched and handled the plates. This is as plain as eye witness testimony gets.
mezz077 6 months ago
@mezz077 You're in for a surprise if you look at the historical evidence. Have you seen mrm[dot]org/eleven-witnesses ?
aaronshaf2006 6 months ago
@aaronshaf2006
That article by Bill McKeever puts intense pressure on the nature of the way the 'Witnesses' actually saw the Plates.
None of them ever claimed to have done any translating and several of them say they only saw the Plates with "Spritual" eyes.
Joseph's father-in-law was allowed to "heft" the Plates in a box but never was allowed to see them.
There are so many unanswered questions.
And the LDS won't give straight answers.
They only choose to call us anti-Mormon when we ask.
hammerogod 4 months ago
@hammerogod
William Smith, in a later interview, stated NONE of the witnesses actually saw the plates.
Jack44M 4 months ago
@Jack44M just because william smi4th made that claim that doesnt mean it holds any water,you are so gullible!
getdownto311 1 month ago
@getdownto311
Nobody said anything about anything William Smith claimed....lost your mind have you? lol
Jack44M 1 month ago
@Jack44M ummm look back a couple pages to find your william smith comment,if it wasnt you i apologize
getdownto311 1 month ago
@aaronshaf2006 sorry mrm.org is not a source for mormon truth in fact 90 percent of their "claims"are based on half truths and full lies,i suggest you do some actual research before you come in here with a pack of lies
getdownto311 1 month ago
@sachamo100 Serious question: What exactly is a "personal witness"? Is it a message from God? Did you hear God talking to you? Out loud? In your head? Was it a written message? Did you have a vision of God? Or was it just a feeling? I'm really interested. How did you know that was a message from God?
cufflink44 7 months ago
@sachamo100
I find that compelling too, but James Strang also produced gold plates and had many witnesses that he translated them into a book called "The Book of the Law of the Lord." None of his witnesses revoked their testimony either.
Nepthu 7 months ago
For an accurate depiction of the Prophet Joseph Smith's life, see:
Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration here on Youtube. It is uploaded under MormonMessages
Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, testifying of Jesus Christ and his Redemption.
Read the Book of Mormon, and learn of this truth. It testifies of the Son of God, the Redeemer of the World, our Savior Jesus Christ.
GreeneBellamy 7 months ago
"By the power of God I translated the Book of Mormon from hieroglyphics, the knowledge of which was lost to the world, in which wonderful event I stood alone, an unlearned youth, to combat the worldly wisdom and multiplied ignorance of eighteen centuries, with a new revelation.The Book of Mormon is true, just what it purports to be, and for this testimony I expect to give an account in the day of judgment." Joseph Smith Jr.
scottwins2 7 months ago
Mormons: Seriously? This is best you can come up with? Joseph Smith, a con-man? You actually believe this crap? Why didn't Jesus or the Bible have prophecy of Joseph Smith? Unless this it:
Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
BasicInsB4LvingEarth 7 months ago
Don't dare? I will, LDS people were driven from place to place, woman raped, children beaten, homes destroyed, Temple burned, men shot and driven again,& again westward. You are out of line, these people were not so deserving even as of the likes of you are not deserving, whatsoever. So you would have murderd Joseph and Hyram in COLD BLOOD when you say it was justified?!!!? My religion is false ? Thats as if you were a fly telling a honey bee the hive is not a good place to live. Reprobate
scottwins2 7 months ago
Its not the Mormon Church, Its "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"
scottwins2 8 months ago
How is there still a mormon church/cult still around?
BasicInsB4LvingEarth 8 months ago
@BasicInsB4LvingEarth , they have not found anything better yet
jendeh1000 7 months ago
can you feel the evil in this video? Absolutely a lack of the
spirit in it. Quite the opposite of what I felt and knew and still know within one hour of meeting with the missionaries, Elder Wendt and Elder Peterson. The Holy Ghost was so powerful and I will never deny it. Joseph Smith has done more for the salvation of man other than Jesus Christ, than any other man who ever lived!
MrFitzwilly 8 months ago
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Prisoner [Joseph Smith] brought before Court March 20, 1826. Prisoner examined: says that he .... had a certain stone which he had occasionally looked at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he professed to tell in this manner where gold mines were a distance under ground.
And therefore the Court find[s] the Defendant guilty. Costs: Warrant, 19c. Complaint upon oath, 25½c. Seven witnesses, ." (Frazer's Magazine, February, 1873, pp. 229-30)
martinh103 8 months ago
IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself by the fruit you see.
mollymu1 9 months ago
Watch the youtube video of "Jesus Christ in Chile (Signs of the Second Coming)"
superleonidas 9 months ago
I think it was a sombrero.
KraftwithaK 9 months ago
Joseph Smith spoke to me once. Now lithium usually stops me from getting to that point, but not always. Sometimes I can still hear his revelations, but it can be hard to sleep if he keeps talking so I usually take the lithium.
jjjooommm222 10 months ago
A small replica of these gold plates can cure anything from cancer to bankruptcy. You're going to see restoration, you're gon-a see miracles in your life. The price? It's free, absolutely free! " FREE' but that promise of Godly miracles comes with a earthly request. 750 of MY followers ARE turning over all worldly goods for the privilege of joining. I invite you to do the same. Before you give me everything, I feel led to ask youto prove God with a $20 offering."
onstageagain 1 year ago
@onstageagain Why do I need to pay you for GODS blessing?do you think you are like his spokesman or something?
enchantedsummer08 8 months ago
@enchantedsummer08 Thank U for Ur comment. U would not believe how many people have wanted to send me money. I think most people R just plain stupid. This posting proves to me how easy it is to be a JSmith fraud, which he was, & cause the money, power, & authority to fall to him.
J Smith found a brown rock while digging a well & claimed it to be a "seer stone" He subsequently would tell people where to dig for treasure, none was ever found, was later prosecuted for fraud
onstageagain 8 months ago
@onstageagain i came to these vids in search of answers and mostly all i have found is hate and venim... Im sorry if i came off rude.
enchantedsummer08 8 months ago
@enchantedsummer08 I saw your comment, There are only two, religions in the world that stir mens hearts so. Its Judism,and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Yet they are related. You will notice on the interent that the hatred for this religion is great yet its teachings are love thy neighbor, live God fearing lives and Love Christ... where is my error? Study, Pray, and ask. Write if you like. Like to here from you. lds.org
scottwins2 8 months ago
@scottwins2
Don't dare equate the ridicule your religion (rightfully) recieves with the persecution the Jews have endured throughout the ages.
Mormonism is false. It's easily proven.
doomaflatchie 7 months ago
@scottwins2 ok well thanx for that, but I didnt want a sermon... I will stick with the old time religon if you dont mind. atleast we dont try to force our beliefes on anyone. please dont write back...
enchantedsummer08 7 months ago
Another example of the Mormon bullshit revealed!
Great, thanks!
NathaliaArroyo 1 year ago
May I refer you to Voices from the Dust by Glenn A. Scott. Available at:
School of Saints
520 W. Maple
Indep.,MO 64050
Fax 816-833-0491 24-h
Brother Scott has performed considerable archeological studies in South America. In his book you will find ample proof. The Book of Mormon is also available here. In the last few pages of the BOM is a promise for you. If you read the book with an honest desire to know it is true, asking God, you will know beyond a doubt. Please pray.
3511able 1 year ago
@3511able HAHAHHAHAHA............BOM IS A SATANIC LIE.......JOE SMITH WAS A NASTY MAN WHORE OF SATAN.......WITH A HOUSE FULL OF NASTY MORMON WHORES FOR HIS PERSONAL SEXUAL PLEASURES.............MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN...........
eitoobmiz 11 months ago
@eitoobmiz I was quite anti-mormon before you said that, they seemed a bit dull, but when you put it that way they sound a bit more appealing.
sariahtea 9 months ago
@eitoobmiz they are messed up, but joe smith only had 1 wife it was good old "breed'em young" (Brigham Young) that had 26 wifes. his belief was if they are old enough to bleed they are old enough to breed. His youngest wife was 11 years old
enchantedsummer08 8 months ago
@3511able Come back to Jesus
martinh103 10 months ago
100+ dislikes on this video!! hhhmmm i wonder why? i bet the mormons get mad because they know deep inside that these plates are only imaginary just like star/planet kolob, hill cumorah(both hill cumorah) and a lot more
MORMONS = MASTERS OF EXCUSES
MALDITTOROKKERO 1 year ago
Allah/zues/amon ra/horus/thor/shiva/jesuschrist/jupiter/chak/kukulcan/baal/krishna/vishnu/apollo/juno/mithras/ and hundreds more pick one or many makes no difference to me but don't expect me to believe in your man made god or phony in it for themselves profits I meant prophets. I am open to the possiblity of GOD but isn't it just as likely that the universe created us/life.
freethinker143 1 year ago
Allah/zues/amon ra/horus/thor/shiva/jesuschrist/jupiter/chak/kukulcan/baal/
freethinker143 1 year ago
Here's the first few questions I ask Mormons: How do you know the BOM is the word of God? Where are the plates Smith supposedly wrote from? If Mormon evidence is based on faith, why can't the Islamic, Hindu or Buddha, Jehovah Witness, etc. be based on faith? In other words, why is your faith based religion true and you claim their faith based religon isn't true? The Mormon chat line people usually end the conversation after I ask these questions. Care to answer TRic, Trolan?
debra53758 1 year ago
@debra53758 Islam, etc can't be real like Mormonism, it doesn't have special gold plates for which there is no evidence. Because Islam doesn't have the appeal to authority in regards to an invisible book. Because faith is materialistic in Mormonism except when dealing when any Mormon claim to it's books, anthropology, archeology, etc, then it must be faith on the most absurd invisible impossible claims. Mormonism is Double Bind Theory and no one except a silly ass white boy would swallow it....
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
I've even been on the Mormon chat line many times trying to reason with them. Not once has anyone been able to give me one good reason why I should believe their hogwash religion. The Mormon missionaries all dress and look alike. I can spot them in a car because they have that look that's so obviously Mormon. I feel sorry for them because they're stuck in this BS unless they will be excommunicated if they leave the religion and it's too scary for most of them to do that.
debra53758 1 year ago
I've been studying religions for a few years and I've found most of them have much in common with each other. They all have a leader who they base their beliefs on, they all think they're the only true religion, they tend to be clannish and cultish. The Mormon religin is one of the worst for brainwashing as the mormons I know and talk to can't answer REAL questions that CHALLENGE their faith. I've tried but gave up talking to them as they don't think.
debra53758 1 year ago
@debra53758 Exactly what the adversary wants you to think. Problem with what seems to be ur conclusion of the LDS faith is, U like many many others are using ur mortal logic to look for spritual answers that only come from above. Believe it or not The Holy Ghost really exists,He IS part of the Godhead and ONLY HE can reveal the truthfulness of the Lords gospel to those who seek it in sincere prayer to Our Heavenly Father.You have much to learn an should not bask in ur manmade opinions.
TrickTrolan 1 year ago
@TrickTrolan MORMON'S WORSHIP MASONIC LUCIFER............
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@debra53758 THE MORMON MISSIONARIES CAME TO MY HOUSE RECENTLY AND WHEN THEY DISCOVERED I WASN'T A ZOMBIE THEY SAID"WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME HERE, WE NEED TO GO" HAHAHAHAHA FLED WHEN I GAVE THEM SOME TRUTH.
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@debra53758 haha we dont think? what a stupid and inept post,nope i dont mind a challenge,wow your a joke lady!
getdownto311 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Lord help the "True Church" to fulfill everything you have spoken, and divert from the nonsence of joe smith, Amen.
bibtruth(DOT)com/mtest.html
mormonconspiracy(DOT)com/brain-washing.html
exmormon(DOT)org/
mormontruth.blogspot(DOT)com
Please take the time to read a piece of other beliefs to let those choose. A true church would not obligate you to "Donate" ten percent of household income. Why, you ask? You cannot buy your self into the one and only Heaven.
Rainmaker106 1 year ago
Do you live the standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ?
mormonboy08 1 year ago
@mormonboy08 Do you? D&C 132 wants you to have more then one wife
JohnnyJuanRico 1 year ago
@actutus Once you seriously examine the miracle claims in the Bible you have to conclude that they are just as ludicrous as the Mormon claims are. The problem is, most Christians can point out Mormon fakery but can't see their own Bible fakery. I used to be Christian and can attest to this fact. Now I don't have religion I can see so clearly that the Bible, BOM, are just fabrications written by men to control people.
debra53758 1 year ago
@debra53758 Debra, you are a miracle. Not in a religious way, I just like what you're saying. You seem like a really intelligent woman who has learned a lot in life :D
explosivedoubt 1 year ago
@debra53758 couldn't have said it better.
mr41ststreet 1 year ago
@debra53758 Well said!
soulure 1 year ago
Does anyone know who this guy is? Is he a professor? Where does he teach? Does he respond to other religions?
schrojo40 1 year ago
The irony is how various Christian factions use scientific evidence to argue against the doctrines of the LDS church. Yet, these same anti-LDS factions howl with anger when scientific evidence argues against all Christian mythology. This includes nonsense such as intelligent design, all "miracles" of Jesus, the lack of substantive archeological/ geological evidence for most of the Bible's events (e.g., floods, Solomon's cities), the existence of Jehovah/ Yahweh/ God, the list of goes on.
CaptainMacNasty 1 year ago
Why is he wasting his time trying to find a loop hole which will, in the insignificant form, raise doubts into peoples minds, and then therefore lead them away? Why aren't they studying the teachings, and being taught to ask of God themselves? And why is he, in what appears to be in his church, be mocking our church? Is there fear of his members becoming members of ours? That's all it is, and that's all it will ever continue to be. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A LATTER-DAY SAINT DO THIS TO HIS CLASS?!?!?!
Allmighty193 1 year ago
@Allmighty193, So you enjoy being lied to just because the moral of the story is good? Many people want to find truth in life, and they don't just settle for the best told story. I've learned far more than I ever would after leaving the mormon church. And for all of you who are mormon, you might as well call yourself a cabbalist also. The mormon church is nothing more than beliefs of the Kabbalah.If you don't know about the Kabbalah, I urge you to check it out. Or just stay blinded to truth!
DivineMagixWorld 1 year ago
fake
naos321 1 year ago
google Doe's Account.
Nevyfling 1 year ago
@praestant8 Actually, Mormonism is an amalgamation of ideas he borrowed from not only the Bible but also other faiths. Just compare it's hierarchy to that of the Catholic Church. Compare its teachings to Methodism and its theology to Arminianism and Pelagianism. Of course, there is the issue regarding the novel Manuscript Found as well.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
The organization and doctrines of the church are a regrouping of the true doctrines and organization of God's original church structure. This includes changes in methods of worship. In the pre-Christ era Gods church sacrificed animals as symbolic atonement for sin. With the last blood sacrifice accepted being the suffering and death of Christ this law was taken away. Gods church is a living church.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m There's no such thing as the "original church." Otherwise christians would still be sacrificing lambs at the temple because what came after the original church established at the time of Adam and eve and then through Moses would also be irrelevant. How is you logic unflawed again? Mormonism is not a restoration of anything. It is a false gospel wrapped in bad interpretations of Christianity because Joey didn't get it.
praestant8 1 year ago
@praestant8 Of course there is an original church. I expect we may disagree on the point of origination. The religion practiced by the old testement prophets was Christianity. They knew Christ would come and many people recognized him when he came.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
I, being accused of intellectualism, was told that Satan was oppressing me when my questions got too difficult. I was totally sincere in my interest. But instead, I was accused of the sin of intellectualism. Since then, I have learned not to trust anyone who tells me to stick my head in the sand and believe. I also gave up on do-do religion.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane In my opinion, God is an intelligent being who wants His children to gain all knowledge and truth. God's doctrine and the truths of the universe are not at odds with each other in the least degree.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Any religious group who defends free-will and then gives me a list of extra Biblical things to do and not to do is a group who has no understanding of the cross. To rebuild what Christ nailed to the cross is to re-crucify the Lord God Almighty. Read Hebrews carefully. Like Pauls contemporaries I will not be a dog who returns to his own vomit.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Free-will is the ability to make a choice. How can anyoune make a choice without options. Your options are good and evil. God has given a so-called list of good things. This very act gives free will.
krkr8m 1 year ago
McKeever is lying to us by quoting Mormon materials? Seems that the problem is with LDS propaganda and historians not McKeever, then again, the Mormon evidences and propaganda has always been kind of malleable. Just watch James White debate the LDS, have you ever seen anyone depend so much on ambiguity and relativism?
MrNickKane 1 year ago
The eternal unchanging doctrines of the church are as about as permanent as a politician's promises.
praestant8 1 year ago
Mckeever is lying to you.
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
Evangelical movement is in vain. This video is bullshit and mckeever is a moron.
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
Such profanity from an alleged member of the church. Gasp! I sure hope you aren't violating the sanctity of the temple by walking in to it obviously unworthy to enter.
praestant8 1 year ago
@praestant8
McKeever is a deciever!
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
How is quoting from church approved sources that even you apologists like to quote from to bolster your cases and using simple logic deception? If that's the case how is deceiving whom? Your empty generalizations, as with most apologetic explanations, are in this case baseless.
praestant8 1 year ago
@praestant8 Mr. LDSapologist71 did such a good job refuting you there didn't he?
praestant8 1 year ago
who is deceiving whom rather.
praestant8 1 year ago
Lack of profanity is not part of official temple worthyness. I am a member and do not approve of profanity or vain speech.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m Wow, how the worthiness standards for the temple have slacked off since I last went.
praestant8 1 year ago
@praestant8 They have never required a lack of profanity.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
No haircut, under garments, abstaining from caffeinated candy bars, belief God is near Kolob, family home evening, two-year mission, Temple visit, no 10% tithe (which is less that the OT requirement), prophet (lowly man), Book of Mormon (and it revisions) or any other Caucasian reinstitution of Judaism is going to get me closer to God.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane I'm sorry to hear that.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
The true Church only points in one direction and that towards God alone. It has no boundaries, no bricks or mortar. It does not yoke or burden its people. Its law is only the love of God and others. All its residents are priests. Chastisement is not a condemnation, but an assurance of sonship. In Christ we have liberty and we are free indeed.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane I believe that God himself has directed the order of His true church and that it is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS or Mormonism).
krkr8m 1 year ago
I wonder what kind of a story I could come up with by looking at a rock in a hat.
praestant8 1 year ago
The words Urim and Thummim are ancient Hebrew words that did not make it to the west while Smith was alive. How then did he know the words if not from God?
Google the words Urim and Thummim and you'll find many other non-Mormon sources.
krkr8m 1 year ago
Friend - Joe took them right out of the Bible where they have been printed for a long time, just like where he stole the rest of his ideas for the BoM. See Ex 28:30, Lev 8:8, Num 27:21, Deut 22:8,
praestant8 1 year ago
@praestant8 - So are you agreeing that they are biblical and in keeping with Christianity?
If you claim that God was the ultimate source of the Bible and that those ideas were stolen from the Bible, how could he have plagiarized the bible if he claims that those very words are from God?
krkr8m 1 year ago
Only the parts he stole are Biblical. The rest he made up obviously isn't. Your using a bit of circular logic here.
Just as in music, good composers borrow, brilliant composers steal. Joe was a master religious composer. He begged, borrowed, and stole.
praestant8 1 year ago
@praestant8 My theory may sound like conjecture but the fact remains the Mormons admit that Joe Smith went through a period of studying various Christian beliefs while trying to find the true church. One does not have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce the fact that Mormonism is a cut and paste religion. A compilation of pre-existing beliefs mixed with the Bible & plagiarized fiction.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
I very much agree. Some have called Joe a synthesizer of many things that became mormonism. Nothings was ever given to Joe all at once. Things were a constant progression of new and evolving ideas. God didn't give the ten commandments one at a time over a period of decades.
praestant8 1 year ago
@praestant8 Joseph Smith's 13th Article of Faith says that "If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."
We do not accept or reject ideas based on their age but on their merit.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Smith's willingness and efforts to find the truth through inquiry and study only show that he was looking for a true knowledge of God. Remember, he was 13 to 14 years old during this study.
krkr8m 1 year ago
He did not steal anything since he cited his source (God).
Circular logic requires that one of the premises assumed to be true is in fact false. So which premise is untrue? If none, then it is not a logical fallacy.
Do you claim that God was the ultimate source of the Bible?
Does the Book of Mormon utilize ideas and text from the Bible?
If a writer cites their source is the use considered plagiarism or stealing?
Did Joseph Smith claim that the Book of Mormon was ultimately from God?
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m No, Joe said it is "another testament of Jesus Christ" as in what was originally said in the Bible apparently wasn't good enough so he had to say something additional to Jews that came to America. But see Jews don't believe in the Bible or in Christ as the savior so that is an issue already! That has proven to be false! You obviously aren't getting the point. So let me ask you this. Do you believe the D&C to be the word of God too? Is that in fact revelation from God?
praestant8 1 year ago
@praestant8 Yes the revealed Doctrine and Covenants of the LDS church are the word of God.
The Jewish religious group believe the Old Testement yet do not believe that Christ has come to the earth yet. They expected a war like savior who would fight the Romans in physical battle. Christ was an Israelite and so were all of the first 12 apostles.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@praestant8 Yes, Old Testement, New Testement, Another Testement. Is the Old Testement complete without the New Testement or vice versa? I believe they are not complete wihtout the Book of Mormon. It is not that complicated.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Yes, and David Koresh claimed that his inspiration was from God. As did Mohammed, as did Buddha as did Stan Lee. Such a claim in and of itself does not automatically validate the supposed evidence for inspiration. One also cannot allow the claimant to designate the standards for validation. Joe Smith cannot be his own expert.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane The standard is lain out in the Bible. "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God..." I have asked God and he has answered my prayers. I know that God speaks to each of us individually if we seek him.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Wisdom is one thing but the Bible does make a distinction between wisdom and knowledge. There is no Salvation by any of them but only through Christ. To think differently is salvation by gnosis and that is Gnosticism.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
I personally could not continue my belief that Joseph Smith was a true prophet based on a blind rationalization. The only evidence ever given to me were eyewitnesses who were neither archaeologists nor ancient linguistic experts. I saw the plates is nothing more than hearsay evidence in a court of law as it should be to anyone becoming a Mormon. Faith is not a matter of pure ignorance.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Knowledge of God does not require "blind faith". You can recieve a testimony of the truth straight from the source. Pray to God and ask Him for yourself.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Unlike the BOM, there is not only plenty of external evidence (manuscript and historical) but the Bible is self testifying in both its fulfillment of prophecy (Ex 70AD) and in its typological nature. Also, no prophet was ever left out to dry without some external manifestation of his relationship to God. Moses had the Red Sea. Christ the resurrection.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Joseph Smith performed many miracles through the power granted him by God. Miracles and signs do not convince the unbeliever else Pharaoh would have let the Israelites go earlier on.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
The Bible also does not leave it to the prophets to determine their own validity. God offers His own standard to the people and if the prophet didnt meet the requirements, he was killed. LDS conversely offers flimsy evidence only validated by those of like mind. They also eat their own when like minded people point out the discrepancies. Like myself.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane I have been given plenty of substantial evidence. The most convincing being the testimony of the Holy Spirit.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
With man, it is impossible to do anything, with God, all things are possible. Without Christ, I can do NOTHING. I am cleansed through the SACRIFICE OF Christ. I am accepted through HIS resurrection. I live by HIS FAITH, I am justified through HIS obedience. I am sanctified trough HIS SPIRIT. I live purely by FAITH ALONE.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane I agree with you on this one.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
The true temple is our body, God does not reside in temples made with human hands, the true Ark of the Covenant is our hearts, the law resides there, its not in some external ordinances. Its not what goes in us that defiles us but what comes out. Everything we have from God comes vicariously through Christ alone.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Do you believe the Old Testement?
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
I believe that Christ fulfilled the Old Testament and restored to whole House of Israel. He (being the anti-type) also abolished the necessity for the types. Hebrews Chapter 1 teaches that God in the past spoke to us in various ways and manners but now speaks to us through His Son. If I have Christ, why restore a prophet like that of the OT?
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Because Christ speaks through prophets as well. If Christ was "appointed heir of all things" (Heb 1:2), He must also be heir to His Father's methods.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
@krkr8m
Please understand. I have come to learn that J.Smith thought He was restoring the supposed original Church. What he failed to overlook was the sufficiency of Christ. This is why the Book of Hebrews is so damaging to the LDS, Catholics, the Jews and the Jehovah Witnesses. Hebrews is all about the sufficiency that is in Christ alone.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Christ is sufficient for everyone. He has given us a path that we must follow to obtain his atonement. Having paid the price for our sins and failures, He has the right to determine who has met His criteria. He does not judge us based upon the quantity of our good works outweiging our bad works for the Lord looketh upon the heart. Yet, our works determine our heart to a great degree. By their works ye shall know them. Our works are a testimony of where our heart is.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
No. No. No. No. I'm sorry, you cannot obtain an atonement. This would should show a basic misunderstanding about the atonement in the OT. It was never left up to Israel to decide the sufficiency of the atonement. That was God's sole right. Israel had to wait for the Hight Priest to come out of the Holy of Holies to know if the atonement was accepted. The application was solely God's choice.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Not counting mental or phsical deficiency, the heart will not be in the right without good works.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
As we read books such as 1st John, we start to understand that goods works are not a reaction to salvation but a manifestation that God works in us. God's working in us is a sign of a true believer. If any different then Christ finished nothing. He took the statutes and ordinances and nailed them to the cross. It is finished.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
The restoration of anything that Christ has fulfilled becomes a personal attack on His work on the Cross. Either Christ fulfilled it once and for all (Heb 9-10) or He didn't. If any of those in the OT or today could have fulfilled it, then Christ would have served no purpose.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane The LDS church is not a restoration of what Christ fulfilled in the atonement and resurection but a restoration of the order and truths of His church on the earth. His atonement is eternal and could not be lost yet the true knowledge of it on the earth was misplaced and in many respects lost..
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Everyone forgets, Christ died and OT death. Fullfilled the OT statutes and law. All that was left was the utter destruction of all the physical remenants of the OT and that was done in 70ad. As he prophesied it would Matt 23-24. The law is now written of the flesh of the Ark of the New Testament Covenant, our hearts. Our bodies serve as the temple. It is finished.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m @krkr8m
The Holy Spirit was sent only to testify of Christ (John 15:26). Where does it teach that the Holy Spirit was sent to testify of Prophets and apostles? Christ didn't come to build a Church but to restore His people (Israel) by His death and resurrection (Heb 8:10). There was no Covenant ever made to the Gentiles. Take a look.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane The Holy Spirit testifies of Christ and the truths that Christ taught and teaches today. The Holy Spirit will not testify of a prophet or apostle's church but only of Christ's church.
The Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints is "His people (Israel)". Those very few who are not direct decendents of Israel are adopted into the house of Israel. Most LDS peoples have researched their ancestry back to Israel. I am personally a direct decendent of both Ephraim and Manasseh.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Again, the LDS could not trace their lineage back to Israel because the geneologies were destroyed in the destruction of the Temple 70ad. Why do you think the modern Jew cannot do it through their geneology. This is why the Apostle told us not to get caught up in geneologies because he was aware of their pending destruction.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
No offense, but this Christ destroyed the idea of Salvation by lineage. Read John's Gospel real carefully (Chapt 1), believers are not born by the will of blood, flesh or man. A Jew would have understood this completely. Then Paul writes, if you be in Christ, then are you Abrahams seed. That there is no more Jew or Gentile. The House of Israels ancestry was destroyed as per Gods pronouncement in the OT. Read Hosea.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m You did your genealogy back that far? Or are you relying on the folk magic of your patriarchal blessing to fill in the holes?
praestant8 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Why would God complain about everything the Jews put value in, the law, the temple and so on, send His Son to die and fullfil the law, then destroy everything only to build it all back up again? Why? Joseph Smith never answered that question. In all fairness, many Christians believe the same and can't explain why. They can't because they have no understanding of the OT.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
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@krkr8m
The Holy Spirit was sent only to testify of Christ (John 15:26). Where does it teach that the Holy Spirit was sent to testify of Prophets and apostles? Christ didn't come to build a Church but to restore His people (Israel) by His death and resurrection (Heb 8:10). There was no Covenant ever made to the Gentiles. Take a look.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
J. Smith made the same mistake many do today, he didn't understand Hebrew Apocalyptic language and He didn't understand the Covenants. He tried to Gentile-ize the OT and failed to see that House of Israel was exiled to the north and this was noted by the Jewish historian Jospehus. They were not lost. The House of Judah knew exactly where they were and noted it.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane If it is known, where are each of the tribes of Israel individually located? Under the OT prophets they were each given specific land to live in and inherit. Why are they not there and where are they now?
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Wow! Have you not read Hosea? Isaiah? Who do you think Ezekiel was the prophet to? Do yourself a favor and read the Jewish historian Josephus. He knew as did others. The House of Israel were divorced by God and sent in the countries north of Israel. That is why the Apostles first ministered to the Jew and then those north of Israel. They knew as well.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
There is a total lack of understanding by the LDS because their concepts of Covenant and the OT had nothing to do with how OT Israel percieved themselves. They have no sense of typology and fail to understand that all the buildings, statutes, rites and what not were done away with and Christ offers something greater than fleshly ordinances or temples.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
In Matt 10:6 Christ tells the 12 to go to the House of Israel. They didnt go to the Americas. Then in Matt 15 Christ says that He ONLY came to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Could not do that in Mid East if they were supposedly lost in North and South America.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane
Who are the "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10:16
He came to the land of Israel then left and came to the land that is know known as the Americas. In both places he taught decendants of the House of Israel.
krkr8m 1 year ago
@krkr8m
Here is what happen when you read anything with presuppositional eyes and not from context. Christ is speaking to the Jews. Obviously, they knew who he was talking about because they didn't ask Him to clarify. If you read Hosea, God divorces House of Israel and then promises to restore them unto Him. They became the second class citizens to Judah.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
This is the problem I developed after I left the Mormons. The OT has nothing to do with anglo-saxon concepts or Native Americans. God solely made a covenantal agreement ONLY with Israel. Who is Israel today? Christ. Just as the Jews resided in a Country, we now reside in Him. Notice the use of the word (in) when speaking of our relationship with Him.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
The House of Israel wasn't lost geographically. The supposed lost tribes were (lost) in their covenental distinction. They had lost their relationship with God. They had gone out and assimilated themselves with the people of the North and spred outward. But the Jews (Judah) knew where they were on the map all the time. As did the OT writers.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@krkr8m
J. Smith was also unaware that Christ never dictated that buildings were ever to be built. The (ekklesia) is a Grk word and (Church) a latinized concept for the covenental people (or body of believers) that Christ came to build. It was never intended to ever be a building and wasn't so for many many decades after Christ's death.
MrNickKane 1 year ago