I really like your piece set the most. I think the way you did it was flawless, but here are some other ideas I've had:
Kings - I was actually thinking that since shogi is a Japanese game, the king should be more Japanese. A Japanese shogun helmet instead of a king with a cross (very Christian). A red king and black king can solve the problem, or change the symbol on the helmet (one would have a moon or something)
Dragon - Dragon head (like knight is a horse head) but with the rook "crown" on top. This way western players can see it came from a rook... and Japanese players can see it is a dragon. Not only is it a dragon, but the rook crown on top makes it a dragon king!
Horse - Not as easy, but something similar. I was thinking since the Japanese name is dragon horse, the dragon here could be more of a western dragon, or essentially a very fierce-looking horse head (w/ dragon wings)... with a bishop hat
@CouchTomato87 Here is an example of what I was talking about, using your pieces. I decided to ditch the bishop hat on the Horse and go with a pegasus, but at least with the pieces shaped as heads instead of entire animals, it looks more consistent with the rest of the pieces.
h t t p : / / shyguy . snorland . com / ct / ShogiWest . png
The play OK versions of the gold ganerals and silver generals *are* representative of what they are: they look like a star badge/medals that western general wear (although they look more like wild west "sheriff" badges). They were just clever and blended the badge with the movements of the pieces.
I've made my game in wood, and I made these symbols for my pieces :
h t t p : / / pierrenoire . site90 . com / others / pi%C3%A8ces%20shogi . jpg
They looks like the pieces in the game "Shotest Shogi" on Xbox 360. They are simple and show well the moves I think. Also, the letter on the top show the name of the piece, and show if it's promoted or not.
When I'll have the time, I'll make another set of pieces with kanjis :)
well i learned very well with playok pieces, and my first time playing was like the one with the pieces motion, but actually I kinda preffer the one of the crowns, I have seen them before, and it can make something more representative for a shogi game, but I didn't liked the pegasus Idea it can confuse some people with janus chess, and the dragon I think its ok, but would preffer it with a japanese dragon, after all, the game is from japan =)
just a suggestion, but as the characters used in the original shogi set are just the characters for the pieces (i.e pawn will use the characters for foot soldier is it? i think...) why not keep the original symbols, but alo engrave the name of the piece in english on the back, where they put the name of the creator and the font...
just a suggestion, but this way people who are new to shogi will learn to recognise the symbols with the english names aswell
just a suggestion, but as the characters used in the original shogi set are just the characters for the pieces (i.e pawn will use the characters for foot soldier is it? i think...) why not keep the original symbols, but alo engrave the name of the piece in english on the back, where they put the name of the creator and the font...
just a suggestion, but this way people who are new to shogi will learn to recognise the symbols with the english names aswell
Heh in Polish we call the CHESS knight a horse. When I was playing shogi the first time, more confusing than the Japanese Kanji words was The Knight(horse for me) and the Horse(also horse). By the way the newest markings on shogi peaces in BCM Shogi are the best from all international markings.
I think the promoted rook and bishop should be like the minor pieces, with the king's crown instead of the gold's crown. And the silver should be something else other than a crown.
I have watched all your "how to play shogi"-videos and like them!
The generals in the first are cool, i think. If I should choose one shogi set in this video I'd choose yours. I like the eastern dragon and the promoted sides of the pieces (although i'd like the eastern dragon better than the western like i said before). Why don't you let the jewel general be like a queen like kenijaru said? I'd like that!
if king general looks like a king in western chess... maybe the jewel general could look like a queen in western chess? mainly because it still looks like a crown, but is diferent from the King's crown.
the dragon would be "standing" on a tower to help asimilate the "rook -> dragon" progression.
If i must choose one, i prefer yours, but to be honest i'd like the "simplified" kanji on top and a letter under it, for example: the "king" kanji and a K under it, or the "walking" kanji and a P.
Great idea! I think you should patent it and manufacture the pieces in shenzhen here. hehe. Well, i think perhaps it's better to use a chariot instead of a castle, it's a castle because in chess after castling, it stays besides the king and look as if the king is inside the castle, but in shogi proverb, you mention that one should put the rook and king as far away as possible. It's also absurd that the most agile piece is represented by the most non-agile thing you can think of: a castle! :-D
Personally I prefer the set that you have created if there had to be an internationalized set.. However, I would much rather use the original kanji. Also, I have yet to thank you, but I have watched all of your videos and greatly appreciate what you have done here.
there's only one thing i'd do... make one side slightly more tinted than the other side.. it would just feel a little better to see a different color... Its like colors of flags in war, nobody ever rocks the same color flag when they're at battle
Do you mean make one players slightly different color? If so, that will not work due to the ability of a shogi player to capture his opponents pieces and drop them back into play on his side. Direction must be the only difference between players pieces
the second one is great.. Very easy to remember symbols than characters.. If i was to play chess by using english words, i would not like it that way either.. So the visual non-character symbols are much better
i really like your idea, but there are some things i would like to be different. I just don't like the idea of the pieces that are directly copied from chess. It is more understandable, but you could use also redraw them, in a more japanese style. Also i thought it would be cool if the gold would look like a sword that is pointing down. it would represent its power, and the directions. you can use the same idea at the silver but with daggers (weaker and directions).
i thing all pieces should be like the dragons and pegasuses.i dont like classic things.put replace all the clasic ones with more cool looking.thats what i whould buy :P my opinion.although i like the original shogi pieces
I think pieces should be based on the fundamental concepts of Shogi pieces: movement, and power.
I like the idea of showing the movement on the piece, but the first board you showed seems to have many other artistic changes besides the symbols (the round shapes, the peculiar board, etc)
I think the best idea is Shogi pieces that show the movement, but are also stylized to show of the power, much like your silver and gold. Also, simple, as to be easy to recreate and understand.
I like the third set as well, but I see a problem with it. The rook and the bishop are the exact same design. Since the pieces are circles, you need to be very careful for the entire game to make sure that you do not twist either piece (especially when capturing or dropping) because it could become confusing which piece it was. I don't think it is allowed to change a bishop into a rook.
I really like your set best. Concerning the kings, what if you made one king gold colored, and the other king silver? That way you could easily tell which king belonged to who, and since the shapes would remain the same, it would be interchangeable. At the same time, the special colors would make it easy to see that the king is an important piece.
And by the way, I never knew that と was a cursive form of 金.
Yeah, another idea: if the King's cross is black everyone will understand that it is the king of the black player. Maybe you can color the small rhomb on the bottom of the white King's crown in to white.
I like your style. But the 1st dragon looks best, I think. Shogi comes from Japan so why not to take a whiff of Asia? Your Pegasus in the new BGM-Software looks better than this one in the video. But the pawns look better in this video.
So, all in one your style is pretty good. When can we buy such Shogi-pieces?
1 idea, the pieces are pretty cool, but they don't match. try drawing them in the same style such as movement picture (silver, gold) basic picture (western) or advanced picture (dragon horse) I think if you drew them all as an advance picture, it would look really cool
The Woman Professional Player you mentioned is also the creator of Doubutsu Shogi(Animal Shogi, with 3 files & 4 ranks), which is much simpler than regular shogi.
Excellent ideas HIDETCHI! As far as KevinRoe's pieces go, a bit quick on the concepts I think. First one is bit muddled and complicated and the second just lacks any artistic impression. I may take my hand at a few myself, but will take saome time in doing so. I did like your original draft designs best though HIDETCHI. Can you recommend the program you're using or another maybe freeware or shareware application? Thanks!
Im not sure if this is a good idea but, for the king you could give whites side king general just a cross on the top of the crown like a modern chess set. Then for the blacks side jewel general you can put some type of jewel on its crown.
Yet another idea: Why not make the pieces look like chess pieces, but draw them with Japanese Kanji-writing style. In this way some of the cool feel of the kanji-characters would be retained to the international version. I think people already playing shogi would welcome set like this more easily.
Since some of other viewers didn't like the pawns being chess-like pawns, (cuz they can't help seeing them move as chess pawns), I was thinking of changing the drawing.
That's where your idea came in, so I tried a shield picture for a pawn, and presented in my channel banner.
Since I wanted to make it look weaker than a lance, after all I just made a small round, not exactly same as your idea.
I think KevinRoe's idea is great for beginner pieces. As I replied to his video, i still feel that there should be westernized pieces too. Kanji pieces means the game looks intriguing as its incomprehensibe.
So making chessish pieces makes it comprehensible, but nevertheless intriguing as an exotic chess. When someone takes the bite, then you can move to those pieces and finally to real ones.
So imo shogi should be marketed with kanji or chess-like pieces. Anything in between looks artificial.
Metal pieces should be cooler. A better gold could then serve as a base for promoted pieces. One idea i got is to make distinct bottoms for the minor pieces which could then be added to the 'gold-head' when promoted. Or even better, you could add distinct gold bottom to minor-piece heads.
Your videos have been really like a gift from heaven (well, Japan in this case, but is there a difference?!). I hope you will make a video for appropriate shogi literature for western people in the future.
The only reason I can see for having internationalized pieces is for newer players and spectators. And it seems like if someone has never seen the game, they can at least understand what's going on if the movements are shown. So if they are shown, it doesn't matter what else is put on there, and since I like the kanji pieces, that was my reasoning for the design. I would like to see a set similar to the one I did if you can find it... And it's too bad that you can't post links in these comments.
KevinRoe327: If you go to shogi (dot) fr (it's in french) and click on the "eShop" button, you can see a set like that on the top. That set also shows up on eBay often.
Oh, just a thought too. Once the pieces are finalized, could you possibly release it for us BCM-Shogi users to download and install it so we can play with those pieces? (Also, a small instruction on how to install would be helpful too.)
Just a thought because I have gotten so much used to Kanji version of shogi pieces ^_^
While I really liked that circular set, I think that your set would make a great international shogi set. Also, I agree with xDAZZE that the Eastern dragon would fit well with this set and would probably look better than the Western dragon that only used about half of the piece.
3) I think the Prom. Silver looks not unified with the other promoted pieces. Maybe it's a better idea to keep the Gold Crown on top of the Silver Crown.
4) I think the promoted S, N, L, and P's top Gold Crown can be smaller and maybe fit a shorter, smaller version of a pendant on it would be better, because missing it seems like the piece can move like a Gold but can't go backwards. Again, just not unison with the original Gold's look.
Maybe you should also annotate your first video (at the beginning) with a link and an explanation to this video, so some viewers of your first video that are indeed discouraged by the Kanji will be aware that International Shogi pieces exist.
(Basically it is shrunken kanji pieces with the movement's shown around them.)
I just did a 10 minute job creating them, I'm sure you could do a much better job with that fancy program of yours, but I just took screenshots of this video, and using MS Paint, reduced the Kanji by 50% and added dots and arrows.
Let me know what you think of it, personally I don't like using western (pictorial) designs at all.
In order to view the picture, add a period, then a "com", then a slash where the space is, sorry about youtube's link restrictions...I pm'ed Hidetchi the full link though.
Very nice HIDETCHI! I like yours best. Since some shogi sets have pieces with two character though, why not keep the first kanji (歩、香、桂、etc.） and then use the images as, more like instread, the "second" character? (兵、車、馬). I think a red 龍 kanji and then an eastern dragon would look very very attractive. Also, players not familiar with chess (like me) would not feel completely disoriented. Just a thought. Again, very cool idea!
For the King General, do you see the cross on top and the "jevel" on the headband? How about this: The King General has the cross, but no jewel, and the Jewel General has the jewel, but no cross?
The other option is just have both Kings look the same, but I like the idea of them being different. I think Japanese players will be more interested in the piece set if it carries over the tradition of the two different Kings looking a little different, and it helps you tell which side is which.
Thanks. I'm glad you liked the dragon and pegasus.
As for the kings, 'cross' on the head of 'king general' and 'diamond' on the head of 'jewel general' is the suggestion that I get most from the viewers at present.
I really like your design idea. I've never been excited about western style pieces before.
I also think it would be cool to have a Battle-Chess-like computer program for shogi. I know that they made one for xiangqi quite a few years ago. It might be another way of promoting interest in shogi.
I'm actually a fan of the english pieces from shotest shogi. They're a geometric set: there is a line in every direction it can move, with an arrowhead if they can move more than one space. The knight is a 'V'. What I particularly like though is that they also have the single letter used for their move notation at the bottom, taking up about 2/5 of the piece. That way, players can associate their name with their moves.
The gold and silver pieces you drew are amazing. They fit very well.
I do like the new set of circular pieces because it would help people to learn the movements quicker, especially if they weren't predisposed to western chess. However i do agree with your mindset that its not good enough to have directions for piece identifications. In this sense, I applaud you on the designs on these pieces, and for forming the ideas that made them. I believe that they are a very good idea.
How was it that you wee able to change the piece designs on BCM shogi?
I agree that circular pieces make it easy to learn the movements.
But I think it's more of 'simplification' of shogi, not 'internationalization' or 'globalization'. (I mean, even western chess pieces can be made in the same way, but people won't need it)
You can change the piece design by directly editting the graphic source file in BCM-shogi folder.
I kinda agree with AoiFurisode's comment on the Dragon and Horse's drawings. I feel like a Eastern Dragon would actually cover the whole concept of a strong attacking piece. A Pegasus is also good idea, symbolizing a defensive piece, only that it would be better to have a different drawing than the one you have (no offence, its actually good.). For King and Jeweled General, a cross and a diamond. And yes, the third set is a bit weak, not horrible. Thank you for the video.
first of all, you dont need to learn how to read kanji. I personally dont know how to write symbols written on shogi pieces. I dont even know, how to read them, I only recognize them. And yes, lot of people get confused by symbols, but it's definitely not the reason, they dont try to learn how to play shogi. We always say: yeah, there are symbols but you can remember them very easily. And i've never met a person, who couldnt remember those shogi kanjis after 5 or 10 games.
when we promote shogi in our country(Slovakia) to people,who dont know about shogi, we have always papers where are shogi pieces drawn and also how they move. When we promote shogi,we in fact try to take advantage of kanji.You know, it looks more exotic,more INTERESTING,when people first come and they dont understand kanji. We get their attention, they are curious, what those symbols mean.
I like your pieces except for Dragon and Horse because the current drawings don't mesh well with the rest as they don't follow the same style (outlined, simple art). Personally, I like a Hyppogryph head for Horse so there is no conflict with Knight. Dragon could work with just an outlined dragon head. Ou and Gyoku can be separated by a diamond or circle on the crown. On a side note, I feel the 3rd set is horrible as it prevent an ease of transition from western pieces to Japanese pieces.
I agree with you about dragon and horse. The ones in this video aren't matching with other ones.
Hmm, 'Hyppogryph'. I didn't know what that is, but now I know after googling it. It looks nice. Another viewer suggested a unicorn, by the way. That's a good idea, too.
I think they should show how they can move but with the original shogi shape and color
kjk501225 7 months ago
I really like your piece set the most. I think the way you did it was flawless, but here are some other ideas I've had:
Kings - I was actually thinking that since shogi is a Japanese game, the king should be more Japanese. A Japanese shogun helmet instead of a king with a cross (very Christian). A red king and black king can solve the problem, or change the symbol on the helmet (one would have a moon or something)
CouchTomato87 8 months ago
Dragon - Dragon head (like knight is a horse head) but with the rook "crown" on top. This way western players can see it came from a rook... and Japanese players can see it is a dragon. Not only is it a dragon, but the rook crown on top makes it a dragon king!
Horse - Not as easy, but something similar. I was thinking since the Japanese name is dragon horse, the dragon here could be more of a western dragon, or essentially a very fierce-looking horse head (w/ dragon wings)... with a bishop hat
CouchTomato87 8 months ago
@CouchTomato87 Here is an example of what I was talking about, using your pieces. I decided to ditch the bishop hat on the Horse and go with a pegasus, but at least with the pieces shaped as heads instead of entire animals, it looks more consistent with the rest of the pieces.
h t t p : / / shyguy . snorland . com / ct / ShogiWest . png
CouchTomato87 8 months ago
I prefer the kanji pices but yours are cool too ps: I like the 2nd dragon best
AronD2208 11 months ago
The play OK versions of the gold ganerals and silver generals *are* representative of what they are: they look like a star badge/medals that western general wear (although they look more like wild west "sheriff" badges). They were just clever and blended the badge with the movements of the pieces.
SeraphAP 11 months ago
I've made my game in wood, and I made these symbols for my pieces :
h t t p : / / pierrenoire . site90 . com / others / pi%C3%A8ces%20shogi . jpg
They looks like the pieces in the game "Shotest Shogi" on Xbox 360. They are simple and show well the moves I think. Also, the letter on the top show the name of the piece, and show if it's promoted or not.
When I'll have the time, I'll make another set of pieces with kanjis :)
NeosTest 1 year ago
I think (larger forests versions of)Doubutsu Shogi pieces is best answer.
Because it is neutral to cultures.
It is better to standardize any chaturanga variants games to use that kind of pieces.
EmilScherbe1 1 year ago
well i learned very well with playok pieces, and my first time playing was like the one with the pieces motion, but actually I kinda preffer the one of the crowns, I have seen them before, and it can make something more representative for a shogi game, but I didn't liked the pegasus Idea it can confuse some people with janus chess, and the dragon I think its ok, but would preffer it with a japanese dragon, after all, the game is from japan =)
lusferno 1 year ago
I always thought the internationalised ones are for lazy asses, or rather lazy brains sorry ;)
The kanjis are not long to learn.
shion255 1 year ago
For the King General and Jewel General: Why don't you change the 'gem' on the top of the crown?
Maybe a crystal-like object like the one protruding from the bottom of the Gold General?
MegaManNetwork 1 year ago
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just a suggestion, but as the characters used in the original shogi set are just the characters for the pieces (i.e pawn will use the characters for foot soldier is it? i think...) why not keep the original symbols, but alo engrave the name of the piece in english on the back, where they put the name of the creator and the font...
just a suggestion, but this way people who are new to shogi will learn to recognise the symbols with the english names aswell
9FistsOfZael 1 year ago
just a suggestion, but as the characters used in the original shogi set are just the characters for the pieces (i.e pawn will use the characters for foot soldier is it? i think...) why not keep the original symbols, but alo engrave the name of the piece in english on the back, where they put the name of the creator and the font...
just a suggestion, but this way people who are new to shogi will learn to recognise the symbols with the english names aswell
9FistsOfZael 1 year ago
what is the name of the software you used?
nailuj100 1 year ago
a lot of people adopt your drawings. but i prefer the japanese one
tooktookguy 1 year ago
Heh in Polish we call the CHESS knight a horse. When I was playing shogi the first time, more confusing than the Japanese Kanji words was The Knight(horse for me) and the Horse(also horse). By the way the newest markings on shogi peaces in BCM Shogi are the best from all international markings.
niematotamtokirej 1 year ago
I think the promoted rook and bishop should be like the minor pieces, with the king's crown instead of the gold's crown. And the silver should be something else other than a crown.
MrPropapanda 1 year ago
I have watched all your "how to play shogi"-videos and like them!
The generals in the first are cool, i think. If I should choose one shogi set in this video I'd choose yours. I like the eastern dragon and the promoted sides of the pieces (although i'd like the eastern dragon better than the western like i said before). Why don't you let the jewel general be like a queen like kenijaru said? I'd like that!
TheMrME1 2 years ago
if king general looks like a king in western chess... maybe the jewel general could look like a queen in western chess? mainly because it still looks like a crown, but is diferent from the King's crown.
the dragon would be "standing" on a tower to help asimilate the "rook -> dragon" progression.
If i must choose one, i prefer yours, but to be honest i'd like the "simplified" kanji on top and a letter under it, for example: the "king" kanji and a K under it, or the "walking" kanji and a P.
kenijaru 2 years ago
Dragon on a Tower!!! Great idea. You're a genius.
But the problem is that it's hard to draw on only one piece.
Also, if we do that for the rook, we have to do the same thing for the bishop, too. I can't think of good combination of "pegasus" and "bishop's hat".
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
OK. I've made a rough drawing of it. How's that?
h t t p : / / twitpic . com/158i1t
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
Great idea! I think you should patent it and manufacture the pieces in shenzhen here. hehe. Well, i think perhaps it's better to use a chariot instead of a castle, it's a castle because in chess after castling, it stays besides the king and look as if the king is inside the castle, but in shogi proverb, you mention that one should put the rook and king as far away as possible. It's also absurd that the most agile piece is represented by the most non-agile thing you can think of: a castle! :-D
naldchow 2 years ago
Personally I prefer the set that you have created if there had to be an internationalized set.. However, I would much rather use the original kanji. Also, I have yet to thank you, but I have watched all of your videos and greatly appreciate what you have done here.
l2andyl2hoads 2 years ago
there's only one thing i'd do... make one side slightly more tinted than the other side.. it would just feel a little better to see a different color... Its like colors of flags in war, nobody ever rocks the same color flag when they're at battle
dunngar 2 years ago
@dunngar
Do you mean make one players slightly different color? If so, that will not work due to the ability of a shogi player to capture his opponents pieces and drop them back into play on his side. Direction must be the only difference between players pieces
l2andyl2hoads 2 years ago
the second one is great.. Very easy to remember symbols than characters.. If i was to play chess by using english words, i would not like it that way either.. So the visual non-character symbols are much better
dunngar 2 years ago
I actually prefer the second set
joshua5576 2 years ago
i really like your idea, but there are some things i would like to be different. I just don't like the idea of the pieces that are directly copied from chess. It is more understandable, but you could use also redraw them, in a more japanese style. Also i thought it would be cool if the gold would look like a sword that is pointing down. it would represent its power, and the directions. you can use the same idea at the silver but with daggers (weaker and directions).
fortunos 2 years ago
@fortunos
I like your idea about sword-dagger gold and silver generals!
TheMrME1 2 years ago
i thing all pieces should be like the dragons and pegasuses.i dont like classic things.put replace all the clasic ones with more cool looking.thats what i whould buy :P my opinion.although i like the original shogi pieces
Dialga355 2 years ago
I think pieces should be based on the fundamental concepts of Shogi pieces: movement, and power.
I like the idea of showing the movement on the piece, but the first board you showed seems to have many other artistic changes besides the symbols (the round shapes, the peculiar board, etc)
I think the best idea is Shogi pieces that show the movement, but are also stylized to show of the power, much like your silver and gold. Also, simple, as to be easy to recreate and understand.
Thank you!
GumGuts180 2 years ago
I like the third set as well, but I see a problem with it. The rook and the bishop are the exact same design. Since the pieces are circles, you need to be very careful for the entire game to make sure that you do not twist either piece (especially when capturing or dropping) because it could become confusing which piece it was. I don't think it is allowed to change a bishop into a rook.
Taraalcar 2 years ago
I really like your set best. Concerning the kings, what if you made one king gold colored, and the other king silver? That way you could easily tell which king belonged to who, and since the shapes would remain the same, it would be interchangeable. At the same time, the special colors would make it easy to see that the king is an important piece.
And by the way, I never knew that と was a cursive form of 金.
Taraalcar 2 years ago
Yeah, another idea: if the King's cross is black everyone will understand that it is the king of the black player. Maybe you can color the small rhomb on the bottom of the white King's crown in to white.
blauerninja 2 years ago
King and Jewel are not necessarily used by only one side, so you can't make them black nor white.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
Ah yeah, I've forgotten that.
blauerninja 2 years ago
I like your style. But the 1st dragon looks best, I think. Shogi comes from Japan so why not to take a whiff of Asia? Your Pegasus in the new BGM-Software looks better than this one in the video. But the pawns look better in this video.
So, all in one your style is pretty good. When can we buy such Shogi-pieces?
PS: Ganbatte!
blauerninja 2 years ago
Thanks.
Many people tell me that they prefer eastern dragon, and I like the 1st dragon, too.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
By the way: a new release of BCMShogi can be downloaded, including the new HIDETCHI-Theme ;-)
shogi4fun 2 years ago
I have changed my Chess-Theme of BCMshogi in a few points.
But watching this video ( /watch?v=-udDs1BJcsE ) I still recognize that I continue thinking capturing with pawns diagonaly.
Probably the checkered board is the (main?) reason for it, which helps for the bishops moving.
shogi4fun 2 years ago
1 idea, the pieces are pretty cool, but they don't match. try drawing them in the same style such as movement picture (silver, gold) basic picture (western) or advanced picture (dragon horse) I think if you drew them all as an advance picture, it would look really cool
smartestguy999 2 years ago
Hidetchi,
You should find a shogi company and pitch your idea.
I'm actually looking to buy a shogi set.
I found that first set you showed online and I thought it looked ugly.
Your set looks very appealing.
Please try and get an actual set made.
I'd buy it!
baytony 2 years ago
The Woman Professional Player you mentioned is also the creator of Doubutsu Shogi(Animal Shogi, with 3 files & 4 ranks), which is much simpler than regular shogi.
EdwardNavu 2 years ago
Yes, and I was thinking about presenting Doubutsu Shogi in my video someday.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
Thanks for the info HIDETCHI! The newer pieces look great btw!!!
JohnnySkillish 2 years ago
Excellent ideas HIDETCHI! As far as KevinRoe's pieces go, a bit quick on the concepts I think. First one is bit muddled and complicated and the second just lacks any artistic impression. I may take my hand at a few myself, but will take saome time in doing so. I did like your original draft designs best though HIDETCHI. Can you recommend the program you're using or another maybe freeware or shareware application? Thanks!
JohnnySkillish 2 years ago
Thanks for the comment.
The program I'm using is "SAI", a japanese program, but I hear that a freeware "Gimp" is also good.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
I made another design, this time with western pieces, which you could always overlay onto shogi shaped pieces if you wanted. :)
Discuss: watch?v=mUInNq51x5k
KevinRoe327 2 years ago
Im not sure if this is a good idea but, for the king you could give whites side king general just a cross on the top of the crown like a modern chess set. Then for the blacks side jewel general you can put some type of jewel on its crown.
wethebest55 2 years ago
Thanks.
Another viewer gave me that idea, too, and I like it.
So I adopted that change to my pieces.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
Yet another idea: Why not make the pieces look like chess pieces, but draw them with Japanese Kanji-writing style. In this way some of the cool feel of the kanji-characters would be retained to the international version. I think people already playing shogi would welcome set like this more easily.
Fuseci 2 years ago
I had bunch of other ideas which i posted directly to HIDETCHI. In short the best of them were:
1)Make pawns look like a circle or a heraldic shield. Both have good resemblence of chess pawn or a soldier.
2)Make metal pieces look decorative pawns (shields?), maybe a crownlike (5 spikes for gold, 3 for silver maybe?) thing or ^ like patterns added.
3)Make Promoted pieces be goldshields with minor-piece portrait. Portrait of a knight on a shield would imo look really cool.
Fuseci 2 years ago
Thanks for sending me your ideas.
Since some of other viewers didn't like the pawns being chess-like pawns, (cuz they can't help seeing them move as chess pawns), I was thinking of changing the drawing.
That's where your idea came in, so I tried a shield picture for a pawn, and presented in my channel banner.
Since I wanted to make it look weaker than a lance, after all I just made a small round, not exactly same as your idea.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
I think KevinRoe's idea is great for beginner pieces. As I replied to his video, i still feel that there should be westernized pieces too. Kanji pieces means the game looks intriguing as its incomprehensibe.
So making chessish pieces makes it comprehensible, but nevertheless intriguing as an exotic chess. When someone takes the bite, then you can move to those pieces and finally to real ones.
So imo shogi should be marketed with kanji or chess-like pieces. Anything in between looks artificial.
Fuseci 2 years ago
Your idea is really cool!
I'll try too come up with some easy internationalized shougi set.
yanagimorishiro 2 years ago
Metal pieces should be cooler. A better gold could then serve as a base for promoted pieces. One idea i got is to make distinct bottoms for the minor pieces which could then be added to the 'gold-head' when promoted. Or even better, you could add distinct gold bottom to minor-piece heads.
Your videos have been really like a gift from heaven (well, Japan in this case, but is there a difference?!). I hope you will make a video for appropriate shogi literature for western people in the future.
Fuseci 2 years ago
Here's my idea: /watch?v=nN3uQ4_6Lbc
KevinRoe327 2 years ago
I'm absolutely not sure: if it really would HELP to promote shogi in the western world, than westernized pieces are a good thing.
But THEN I should train to play blindfold, because seeing such pieces makes me shaken.
Also, in chess, pieces are NOT shown upside down. That's also something unconform, making me worried.
I'm not sure, but MAYBE this idea would be better for the western CHESS-world: eurasia-chess
Link:shogipro[dot]com/forum/viewtopic[dot]php?t=93
That's my two cents.
shogi4fun 2 years ago
Specialay when I saw the last minutes of this video, I hope that I never must play shogi with westernized pieces.
It was terrible to analyze the position.
But maybe it's only because gold and silver, which I absolutely not like.
Even I don't like to play with westerniced pieces, I've also made one set in BCMShogi.
Link:home[dot]arcor[dot]de/Bernhard.Maerz/BCMShogi/ScreenSh5.png
Also I DON'T like G and S, but I like to show it maybe for otheres getting ideas by seeing it.
...
shogi4fun 2 years ago
Hi,
a few things from me.
First: have anyone of you chessplayers tried shogi with a chess-pieceset?
I've tried it: for king, rook, bishop and knight it works very well, but NOT (!!!) for pawns.
When I see a chess-pawn, I'm thinking with chess-pawns, means, I had problems not thinking about taking diagonaly.
Maybe it's only ME with this problem, but it would be interesting to hear others experiences.
...
shogi4fun 2 years ago
Another viewer told me the same thing, and also I agree.
I can't help seeing pawns taking diagonaly and being weak on the head, either. So I'll change the design for the pawn.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
The only reason I can see for having internationalized pieces is for newer players and spectators. And it seems like if someone has never seen the game, they can at least understand what's going on if the movements are shown. So if they are shown, it doesn't matter what else is put on there, and since I like the kanji pieces, that was my reasoning for the design. I would like to see a set similar to the one I did if you can find it... And it's too bad that you can't post links in these comments.
KevinRoe327 2 years ago
KevinRoe327: If you go to shogi (dot) fr (it's in french) and click on the "eShop" button, you can see a set like that on the top. That set also shows up on eBay often.
hirohiigo 2 years ago
I have seen Shogi pieces with just upper-case letters. Very ugly lol.
hobbes3k 2 years ago
Yeah... once Shogi goes big internationally, I hope something close to this set becomes the official one. I think it makes a lot of sense this way.
cymerdown 2 years ago
Oh, just a thought too. Once the pieces are finalized, could you possibly release it for us BCM-Shogi users to download and install it so we can play with those pieces? (Also, a small instruction on how to install would be helpful too.)
Just a thought because I have gotten so much used to Kanji version of shogi pieces ^_^
xDAZZE 2 years ago
Oh, I've already started to dicuss that with the author of BCM-shogi !
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
Sweet. I'll be looking forward to play Shogi with Hidetchi's pieces :D
xDAZZE 2 years ago
While I really liked that circular set, I think that your set would make a great international shogi set. Also, I agree with xDAZZE that the Eastern dragon would fit well with this set and would probably look better than the Western dragon that only used about half of the piece.
IkeofCrimea 2 years ago
Thanks for your comment. Now I'm starting to realize how westerners like eastern dragons, too.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
Okay, after finished watching the video, I came up these few things:
1) The Jewel General and the King General can be separated by:
- Jewel General has a diamond on the top of the crown.
- King General has a cross on the top of the crown.
- Rest of the crowns look the same for both generals.
2) Since it's a Japanese game, I think keeping the Eastern dragon is better, since Westerners still know that it's a dragon and it looks/fits better.
... comments will be continued on my next comment.
xDAZZE 2 years ago
... continued from previous comment.
3) I think the Prom. Silver looks not unified with the other promoted pieces. Maybe it's a better idea to keep the Gold Crown on top of the Silver Crown.
4) I think the promoted S, N, L, and P's top Gold Crown can be smaller and maybe fit a shorter, smaller version of a pendant on it would be better, because missing it seems like the piece can move like a Gold but can't go backwards. Again, just not unison with the original Gold's look.
Great arts though!
xDAZZE 2 years ago
Thanks.
Yeah, most viewers suggest "cross for King, diamond for Jewel". I agree with that idea.
And small version of a pendant seems nice. I'll try that. I'll see what I can do about Prom. Silver's problem, too.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
You should be an artist, too!
xDAZZE 2 years ago
Hey Hidetchi-san, here's a suggestion:
Maybe you should also annotate your first video (at the beginning) with a link and an explanation to this video, so some viewers of your first video that are indeed discouraged by the Kanji will be aware that International Shogi pieces exist.
Great video again, by the way!
xDAZZE 2 years ago
Thanks for the suggestion. A very good idea. I'll do that.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
Here is my idea for a universal design:
tinyurl lj5o4k (Easy to figure out, sorry)
(Basically it is shrunken kanji pieces with the movement's shown around them.)
I just did a 10 minute job creating them, I'm sure you could do a much better job with that fancy program of yours, but I just took screenshots of this video, and using MS Paint, reduced the Kanji by 50% and added dots and arrows.
Let me know what you think of it, personally I don't like using western (pictorial) designs at all.
KevinRoe327 2 years ago
In order to view the picture, add a period, then a "com", then a slash where the space is, sorry about youtube's link restrictions...I pm'ed Hidetchi the full link though.
KevinRoe327 2 years ago
Thanks. I've checked out your picture.
A very good idea to show the movements on the pieces.
In fact, there is a similar set in Japan, as they can be just easier for even Japanese shogi beginners to learn.
So I think showing the movements is not internationalization. It's just making it easy to learn, something we just do even inside Japan.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
Very nice HIDETCHI! I like yours best. Since some shogi sets have pieces with two character though, why not keep the first kanji (歩、香、桂、etc.） and then use the images as, more like instread, the "second" character? (兵、車、馬). I think a red 龍 kanji and then an eastern dragon would look very very attractive. Also, players not familiar with chess (like me) would not feel completely disoriented. Just a thought. Again, very cool idea!
Eikaiwade 2 years ago
For the King General, do you see the cross on top and the "jevel" on the headband? How about this: The King General has the cross, but no jewel, and the Jewel General has the jewel, but no cross?
The other option is just have both Kings look the same, but I like the idea of them being different. I think Japanese players will be more interested in the piece set if it carries over the tradition of the two different Kings looking a little different, and it helps you tell which side is which.
cymerdown 2 years ago
Thanks for sharing your great idea.
Some other people suggested that idea, too.
So I've made that change to my pieces, and now trying using them in my banner of channel.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
I think for the other king you should try a chrone without the upper part. Only the metal part but a little more detailed and bigger one.
Internationalized pieces are strange for me becouse i got used to the kanji pieces. However i realy like your dragon and pegazus idea it's realy cool.
ktulur 2 years ago
Thanks. I'm glad you liked the dragon and pegasus.
As for the kings, 'cross' on the head of 'king general' and 'diamond' on the head of 'jewel general' is the suggestion that I get most from the viewers at present.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
I really like your design idea. I've never been excited about western style pieces before.
I also think it would be cool to have a Battle-Chess-like computer program for shogi. I know that they made one for xiangqi quite a few years ago. It might be another way of promoting interest in shogi.
somearic 2 years ago
Thanks for you comment.
I don't know what a Battle-chess-like program look like. I'd like to see that.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
I'm actually a fan of the english pieces from shotest shogi. They're a geometric set: there is a line in every direction it can move, with an arrowhead if they can move more than one space. The knight is a 'V'. What I particularly like though is that they also have the single letter used for their move notation at the bottom, taking up about 2/5 of the piece. That way, players can associate their name with their moves.
The gold and silver pieces you drew are amazing. They fit very well.
grayswandir76 2 years ago
Thanks for the comment.
I agree it's a good idea to combine a letter and a how-to-move picture in one piece.
And I'm glad you liked my gold and silver idea.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
I do like the new set of circular pieces because it would help people to learn the movements quicker, especially if they weren't predisposed to western chess. However i do agree with your mindset that its not good enough to have directions for piece identifications. In this sense, I applaud you on the designs on these pieces, and for forming the ideas that made them. I believe that they are a very good idea.
How was it that you wee able to change the piece designs on BCM shogi?
emperorofosiris1 2 years ago
Thanks for your comment.
I agree that circular pieces make it easy to learn the movements.
But I think it's more of 'simplification' of shogi, not 'internationalization' or 'globalization'. (I mean, even western chess pieces can be made in the same way, but people won't need it)
You can change the piece design by directly editting the graphic source file in BCM-shogi folder.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
I kinda agree with AoiFurisode's comment on the Dragon and Horse's drawings. I feel like a Eastern Dragon would actually cover the whole concept of a strong attacking piece. A Pegasus is also good idea, symbolizing a defensive piece, only that it would be better to have a different drawing than the one you have (no offence, its actually good.). For King and Jeweled General, a cross and a diamond. And yes, the third set is a bit weak, not horrible. Thank you for the video.
Exkaliki10 2 years ago
Thanks for your comment.
I agree with you about the dragon and horse's drawings. There should be better ones to choose.
Hmm, a cross and a diamond! That seems perfect. Thanks.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
first of all, you dont need to learn how to read kanji. I personally dont know how to write symbols written on shogi pieces. I dont even know, how to read them, I only recognize them. And yes, lot of people get confused by symbols, but it's definitely not the reason, they dont try to learn how to play shogi. We always say: yeah, there are symbols but you can remember them very easily. And i've never met a person, who couldnt remember those shogi kanjis after 5 or 10 games.
vyli1 2 years ago
when we promote shogi in our country(Slovakia) to people,who dont know about shogi, we have always papers where are shogi pieces drawn and also how they move. When we promote shogi,we in fact try to take advantage of kanji.You know, it looks more exotic,more INTERESTING,when people first come and they dont understand kanji. We get their attention, they are curious, what those symbols mean.
vyli1 2 years ago
Thanks for your comment.
I see. That could be another way to see it. Thanks for enlightening with that idea.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago
I like your pieces except for Dragon and Horse because the current drawings don't mesh well with the rest as they don't follow the same style (outlined, simple art). Personally, I like a Hyppogryph head for Horse so there is no conflict with Knight. Dragon could work with just an outlined dragon head. Ou and Gyoku can be separated by a diamond or circle on the crown. On a side note, I feel the 3rd set is horrible as it prevent an ease of transition from western pieces to Japanese pieces.
AoiFurisode 2 years ago
Thanks for your great ideas.
I agree with you about dragon and horse. The ones in this video aren't matching with other ones.
Hmm, 'Hyppogryph'. I didn't know what that is, but now I know after googling it. It looks nice. Another viewer suggested a unicorn, by the way. That's a good idea, too.
HIDETCHI 2 years ago