When I first saw this part of the movie, I thought that he was joking. How in the world can you measure the greatness of a poem? O_o It felt like I was in Math class... Definitely my favorite movie and a source of inspiration. It reminds me of how much I enjoy literature.
When I first saw this part of the movie, I thought that he was joking. How in the world can you measure the greatness of a poem? O_o It felt like I was in Math class... Definitely my favorite movie and a source of inspiration. It reminds me of how much I enjoy literature.
This is such a load of crap. If we can't measure poetry then where does quality control come in? The graph isn't demeaning literature. On the contrary, it helps give the serious reader a refined understanding of it. Does the Williams character think that Shakespeare and Byron just went with the flow and drummed out whatever popped into their heads? No. They worked at their craft. Creation requires effort. Beauty doesn't just pour out of your arse.
@MrHeslopian quality control doesn't come in at all. Seriously, can you compare Picasso and van Gogh? No you can't. Both are genius on their own. Can you compare da Vinci and Freud? No you can't. Literature is no different. Hell, not everything is Maths. A movie rated 16+? Hell, how many minors are seeing and actually understanding it? How many who already are 18 are adult? Get a grip on reality as it is, not on reality as others let it appear to be.
@thecreator625 Yes you can compare Picasso and van Gogh. Both had different styles which can be compared and discussed. Furthermore, the works of geniuses like Picasso and van Gogh don't come into being without quality control. If there was no need to put effort into art and literature then all we'd be left with is undisciplined, faceless mulch. What makes Mr. Keating's opinion more valuable than Dr. Pritchard's? Isn't going with the crowd and ripping up the latter's work just as conformist?
@MrHeslopian Discussing doesn't equal comparing. And if it were all about effort, then anyone could write or paint. And what makes Keating's opinion more valuable is that he actually has a point. And just to name the most obvious reason why one can simply ignore Pritchard: taste. Thus there is no absolute and total solution, and graphs by any means need to have one. Or the fact one can write the most beautiful poem within five minutes when you have the inspiration.
@thecreator625 Discussing is comparing when you take two styles and talk about their similarities and differences. Anyone can write or paint, but it takes someone with talent to write and paint well. Art needs both talent and effort. Do you think Picasso just threw paint at a blank canvas to create the Guernica? Or Shakespare just scribbled the first shit that popped into his head to create the flawless iambic pentameter of his sonnets? Keating isn't freeing minds, he's starting a pathetic cult.
@MrHeslopian Don't deny the arguments I posted. Some who do know something about literature think nevertheless Shakespeare "sucks". Everyone would draw that graph differently, so it is you forcing your opinion upon it when you create such a graph and thus faking it.
Oh, by the way, Mozart for example, everyone knows he's a musical genius, yeah? Well, guess what. He did compose his songs off the top of his head and never once corrected. Argument invalid.
@thecreator625 I'm not saying everyone's graph should be the same. Importance and perfection are subjective. I don't think Dr. Pritchard is necessarily saying otherwise. A graph of this nature simply helps one decide how one feels about certain poems.
So you take one example and use it to exemplify every single artist from every single field of art who ever lived? Thomas Gray spent his entire life polishing his poems. "Elegy in a Country Churchyard" took him over 20 years. Argument invalid!
@MrHeslopian shall I give more examples? Like Franz Kafka, one of the most important German pre world war II writers who too never corrected once? There are a whole lot of more examples to give for that. I just don't have the space due to key limit to write them all who pop up in my head right now down.
Writing is anarchy in every way possible. And as Kafka said: "Don't waste your time looking for a problem, perhaps there is none." I recommend you to chilld for a while.
@thecreator625 And shall I cite you a million examples of those who actually worked at their craft? It's nice to be born a genius, but few of us are that lucky. Besides, just because a writer doesn't correct once he's done doesn't mean he puts no effort into the words at the time. He thinks before he sets down a line. I don't understand what you mean by "chilld."
@MrHeslopian Typo, meant chill. You seemed pretty rushed up by this argument.
And what if one would now said he described his writing as a "rush" or "kick", depending on how you'd translate that? He even wrote about how he felt when writing. "Never stopping, keeping writing without once setting the pen down. Write."
Shall I get started with those who wrote while they were full of downers or other drugs?
And if you paid attention, quality doesn't seem like a necessity now for the crowd anyway.
@thecreator625 And you think the lack of appreciation for quality writing is good? I think it a tragedy. We now live in a world of Harry Potter, not Wuthering Heights. Poetry and creative prose are about passion, I agree. I read only what captures the stormier recesses of my soul, which deals with love, hate, despair, beauty and death. But in order to do that the artist must put effort in. Like how an engineer puts effort into fixing a car so the driver can get the most use out of it.
@MrHeslopian I never said that it is good.It is more like something I threw into because let's face it we're not getting anywhere in this discussion no matter how long we keep this argument up. Hence I tried to change the subject which I apparently failed to. But, if one has to make the relation to the previous subject clear, all I can say is that we writers always are dependent from the crowd. Guess why Twilight was so successful. Because the crowd loves mushy romance and clichés. Sadly.
@MrHeslopian I'm one of those Twilight haters who actually has read the book. Only the first, but this is the only series I started and refused to continue. My mum is quite fond of it, but at least she is not one of those possessive fans. Heck, these beings there aren't vampires anymore. Creativity okay, but vampires are monsters, for someone's sake already. And why do they even sparkle? They in most stories desintegrate in sunlight. Seriously...
@thecreator625 I've read half of the first book. Maybe that doesn't qualify me to hate the series as much as some, but in my opinion no matter how good a story is if it's told badly then it isn't worth reading. A good prose style is so important from my perspective, and Twilight is filled with some of the crappiest, most redundant sentences in recent years.
@MrHeslopian most of the haters never even read a sentence in it and hate it due to what they heard and for the hype it gets. Okay, it IS impossible to work without clichés, Romeo and Juliet is one of the best-known clichéish stories but certainly not a bad play. It is what you make of it or how you vary it. A zombie romance for example would be treated completely differently, though most wouldn't read it because of necrophilia. Damn 500 keys limit...
@MrHeslopian I've read your discourse with the other chap here and I just wanted to add that I don't think the point of this scene is to assert that there can be no such thing as quality control, but that there can be no such thing as absolute quantitative measures by which to judge poetry. I agree with you that understanding technique helps the reader articulate their enjoyment of a poem, but paradoxically a lot of poets have said that the best poems resist a clear interpretation.
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
my com ats teacher showed us this video but she covered up the part of when they were ripping out the pages. i have no idea why she did that! there is nothing bad about this video. weird...
He is SO right! ART is the most unbelieveable thing on earth! and it is so wonderful, 'cause art doesn't judge. never. Its not like physics where you just can be right or wrong. art is something beautiful, something for what it is worth being human. It is not possible to "not get the art", it just means you see it your own way, which is also right, whatever it may be. Trying to analyse or measure poetry with models and metres is paradoxal. It is probably the only way you "can't get" the art.
@666JungleBoogie Jay Evans Pritchard would rate very low on his own graph, if it existed. No, the idea is that it may be a simple coincidence, but it adds to the silliness of the "understanding of poetry" as proposed by the fictional Jay Evans Pritchard.
Ever since I got into House, I can't watch Dead Poets Society without thinking, "WILSONWILSONWILSON."
leonardodavinci77 3 days ago
"Its not the Bible you're not going to Hell for this" lol
ellenkingsley 2 weeks ago 2
is that a picture of Walt Whitman behind Robbin Williams?
redryan20000 1 month ago
really meaningfull movie!!
TATYANAKREBS123 2 months ago
PxI=G
LOL!!
rejectminority 3 months ago
Zero likes, just as it should be
pioneertothefall 3 months ago
that is a great movie !
Dancisvk 4 months ago
lol look at 1:33 he is eating in the background I didnt see that when I watched the movie
gusfalk 4 months ago
Man I wish my teacher could r make me rip out my whole math book :-)
TheNakulthecool 5 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
When I first saw this part of the movie, I thought that he was joking. How in the world can you measure the greatness of a poem? O_o It felt like I was in Math class... Definitely my favorite movie and a source of inspiration. It reminds me of how much I enjoy literature.
PattzSunako27 5 months ago
When I first saw this part of the movie, I thought that he was joking. How in the world can you measure the greatness of a poem? O_o It felt like I was in Math class... Definitely my favorite movie and a source of inspiration. It reminds me of how much I enjoy literature.
PattzSunako27 5 months ago
Robin Williams is such a brilliant actor.
MoonFeather0516 5 months ago
love the part: "it's not the Bible you're not going to hell for this!"
robocoastie 6 months ago 3
@robocoastie Me too it cracks me up!
loughlin14 5 months ago
This is such a load of crap. If we can't measure poetry then where does quality control come in? The graph isn't demeaning literature. On the contrary, it helps give the serious reader a refined understanding of it. Does the Williams character think that Shakespeare and Byron just went with the flow and drummed out whatever popped into their heads? No. They worked at their craft. Creation requires effort. Beauty doesn't just pour out of your arse.
MrHeslopian 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian quality control doesn't come in at all. Seriously, can you compare Picasso and van Gogh? No you can't. Both are genius on their own. Can you compare da Vinci and Freud? No you can't. Literature is no different. Hell, not everything is Maths. A movie rated 16+? Hell, how many minors are seeing and actually understanding it? How many who already are 18 are adult? Get a grip on reality as it is, not on reality as others let it appear to be.
thecreator625 7 months ago
@thecreator625 Yes you can compare Picasso and van Gogh. Both had different styles which can be compared and discussed. Furthermore, the works of geniuses like Picasso and van Gogh don't come into being without quality control. If there was no need to put effort into art and literature then all we'd be left with is undisciplined, faceless mulch. What makes Mr. Keating's opinion more valuable than Dr. Pritchard's? Isn't going with the crowd and ripping up the latter's work just as conformist?
MrHeslopian 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian Discussing doesn't equal comparing. And if it were all about effort, then anyone could write or paint. And what makes Keating's opinion more valuable is that he actually has a point. And just to name the most obvious reason why one can simply ignore Pritchard: taste. Thus there is no absolute and total solution, and graphs by any means need to have one. Or the fact one can write the most beautiful poem within five minutes when you have the inspiration.
thecreator625 7 months ago
@thecreator625 Discussing is comparing when you take two styles and talk about their similarities and differences. Anyone can write or paint, but it takes someone with talent to write and paint well. Art needs both talent and effort. Do you think Picasso just threw paint at a blank canvas to create the Guernica? Or Shakespare just scribbled the first shit that popped into his head to create the flawless iambic pentameter of his sonnets? Keating isn't freeing minds, he's starting a pathetic cult.
MrHeslopian 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian Don't deny the arguments I posted. Some who do know something about literature think nevertheless Shakespeare "sucks". Everyone would draw that graph differently, so it is you forcing your opinion upon it when you create such a graph and thus faking it.
Oh, by the way, Mozart for example, everyone knows he's a musical genius, yeah? Well, guess what. He did compose his songs off the top of his head and never once corrected. Argument invalid.
thecreator625 7 months ago
@thecreator625 I'm not saying everyone's graph should be the same. Importance and perfection are subjective. I don't think Dr. Pritchard is necessarily saying otherwise. A graph of this nature simply helps one decide how one feels about certain poems.
So you take one example and use it to exemplify every single artist from every single field of art who ever lived? Thomas Gray spent his entire life polishing his poems. "Elegy in a Country Churchyard" took him over 20 years. Argument invalid!
MrHeslopian 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian shall I give more examples? Like Franz Kafka, one of the most important German pre world war II writers who too never corrected once? There are a whole lot of more examples to give for that. I just don't have the space due to key limit to write them all who pop up in my head right now down.
Writing is anarchy in every way possible. And as Kafka said: "Don't waste your time looking for a problem, perhaps there is none." I recommend you to chilld for a while.
thecreator625 7 months ago
@thecreator625 And shall I cite you a million examples of those who actually worked at their craft? It's nice to be born a genius, but few of us are that lucky. Besides, just because a writer doesn't correct once he's done doesn't mean he puts no effort into the words at the time. He thinks before he sets down a line. I don't understand what you mean by "chilld."
MrHeslopian 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian Typo, meant chill. You seemed pretty rushed up by this argument.
And what if one would now said he described his writing as a "rush" or "kick", depending on how you'd translate that? He even wrote about how he felt when writing. "Never stopping, keeping writing without once setting the pen down. Write."
Shall I get started with those who wrote while they were full of downers or other drugs?
And if you paid attention, quality doesn't seem like a necessity now for the crowd anyway.
thecreator625 7 months ago
@thecreator625 And you think the lack of appreciation for quality writing is good? I think it a tragedy. We now live in a world of Harry Potter, not Wuthering Heights. Poetry and creative prose are about passion, I agree. I read only what captures the stormier recesses of my soul, which deals with love, hate, despair, beauty and death. But in order to do that the artist must put effort in. Like how an engineer puts effort into fixing a car so the driver can get the most use out of it.
MrHeslopian 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian I never said that it is good.It is more like something I threw into because let's face it we're not getting anywhere in this discussion no matter how long we keep this argument up. Hence I tried to change the subject which I apparently failed to. But, if one has to make the relation to the previous subject clear, all I can say is that we writers always are dependent from the crowd. Guess why Twilight was so successful. Because the crowd loves mushy romance and clichés. Sadly.
thecreator625 7 months ago
@thecreator625 Well we agree on something then. I'm glad we've reached an amicable point in the discourse. Twilight is shit haha.
MrHeslopian 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian I'm one of those Twilight haters who actually has read the book. Only the first, but this is the only series I started and refused to continue. My mum is quite fond of it, but at least she is not one of those possessive fans. Heck, these beings there aren't vampires anymore. Creativity okay, but vampires are monsters, for someone's sake already. And why do they even sparkle? They in most stories desintegrate in sunlight. Seriously...
thecreator625 7 months ago
@thecreator625 I've read half of the first book. Maybe that doesn't qualify me to hate the series as much as some, but in my opinion no matter how good a story is if it's told badly then it isn't worth reading. A good prose style is so important from my perspective, and Twilight is filled with some of the crappiest, most redundant sentences in recent years.
MrHeslopian 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian most of the haters never even read a sentence in it and hate it due to what they heard and for the hype it gets. Okay, it IS impossible to work without clichés, Romeo and Juliet is one of the best-known clichéish stories but certainly not a bad play. It is what you make of it or how you vary it. A zombie romance for example would be treated completely differently, though most wouldn't read it because of necrophilia. Damn 500 keys limit...
thecreator625 7 months ago
@MrHeslopian I've read your discourse with the other chap here and I just wanted to add that I don't think the point of this scene is to assert that there can be no such thing as quality control, but that there can be no such thing as absolute quantitative measures by which to judge poetry. I agree with you that understanding technique helps the reader articulate their enjoyment of a poem, but paradoxically a lot of poets have said that the best poems resist a clear interpretation.
ShamanMick 6 months ago
“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
Mark Twain
death5ter 8 months ago 2
2:02 he drew tits lol
p3nismicmuffin 9 months ago
@p3nismicmuffin Ohhh, I see it now. I never caught that.
comfybluechair 8 months ago
lol at the guy secretly eating next to neil at 1:30
geoffybellofiore 9 months ago
@geoffybellofiore That was a nice little gag they threw in there. I mean, we've all been that guy.
comfybluechair 8 months ago
my com ats teacher showed us this video but she covered up the part of when they were ripping out the pages. i have no idea why she did that! there is nothing bad about this video. weird...
xokitkatox1 11 months ago
@xokitkatox1 Private school?
comfybluechair 8 months ago
@comfybluechair
no, not a private school. I really dont know why she did that.. ?
xokitkatox1 8 months ago
I like the video description.
Fendertastic 1 year ago
@kirbyy Oh yes...he is!! ;) (Robert Sean Leonard )
BlueAngel1516 1 year ago
He is SO right! ART is the most unbelieveable thing on earth! and it is so wonderful, 'cause art doesn't judge. never. Its not like physics where you just can be right or wrong. art is something beautiful, something for what it is worth being human. It is not possible to "not get the art", it just means you see it your own way, which is also right, whatever it may be. Trying to analyse or measure poetry with models and metres is paradoxal. It is probably the only way you "can't get" the art.
JacksonDel 1 year ago 3
Lord Byron and Shakespeare are both great poets of the ages. You cannot simply grade their masterpieces on superficial graphs.
Kentsu827 1 year ago
@kylemccloudsr what?
paranoidandroidRH 1 year ago
its not the bible your not gonna go to hell for this!!! i love that line XD
LillyChic101 1 year ago
Hey, did anyone ever notice what words he used to describe the shaded in parts of the graph: B S?
KyleMcCloudSr 1 year ago 37
@KyleMcCloudSr ahahaha nice spot!
gianpa 3 months ago
@KyleMcCloudSr So, considering what you're saying, shit is great?
666JungleBoogie 1 month ago
@666JungleBoogie Jay Evans Pritchard would rate very low on his own graph, if it existed. No, the idea is that it may be a simple coincidence, but it adds to the silliness of the "understanding of poetry" as proposed by the fictional Jay Evans Pritchard.
KyleMcCloudSr 1 month ago
"I don't hear enought rip!" :D
great movie ;)
LaskaSkywalker 1 year ago 5
its not synced
smithhedgehog 1 year ago
umm, why did laurentian send this to me?? worst alumni relations ever
jdaniellep 1 year ago
Great scene!
StukInBuf 1 year ago
is that doctor wilson???
kirbyy 1 year ago 62
@kirbyy holy shit O_O
PirateSamir 1 year ago
@kirbyy Yep :) He's in Much Ado About Nothing, too. Both awesome movies.
bhelliom3 1 year ago
@kirbyy yes. yes it is :)
wickedchik96 2 months ago
I love this scene. "I don't hear enough rips!" Hee hee.
lovetolovefairytales 1 year ago
Nice, but I do think that this is a bit of a straw-man apropos of the new critics.
Otherwise, great movie.
vanderbilt887 2 years ago
Brilliant scene from one of the truly great movies!
HighlandHealer 2 years ago
God, this is SO GREAT scene... ^_^
chococrispi 2 years ago 2
Haha I love Charlie in this, eating the paper...classic :P
trueromantic17 2 years ago