Did Media Ignore Autopsy Reports on Iraqi Prisoners?

[doug575]

I've had enough of our govt. But what do I do about it? I never vote for Rep. or Dem. anymore. Really what else can I do?

[log140]

that is because MSM told us only 3 ppl were tortured... when the truth will come out, the number will be something like 3.000 to 30.000..

[gwbushisOnePoS]

log140:

In the first weeks and even months after the invasion of Iraq journalist embedded with US soldiers said on on camera . . .

''every morning we'd find up to 100 people a day tossed on the side of the road with holes drilled into their head, back, hands and feet.''

When asked how many bodies the US soldier had seen tortured like this off the side of the road since he'd been in Iraq, the US soldier said 10,000 easy! That was before the Abu Grieb leak.

Drilling the body is a CIA method.

[log140]

this makes even 300.000 a possible number...

[gwbushisOnePoS]

log140:

My guess is that 50,000 were actually tortured by the order of that PoS g. w. bush, 1.5 Million Murdered by the order of war and 2.5 Million homeless with 10% of them living with deformities due to injury from bullets, rockets, bombs and cruise missiles.

The bottom line is that that PoS g. w. is a War Criminal.

[log140]

bush & cheney must be prosecuted!! (to find out the truth...)

[gwbushisOnePoS]

log140:

I know the truth!

Who needs more evidence, NOT ME!

I say we forget the trial and go straight to the penally for Mass Murder.

[log140]

... i have no doubt about the evidence! still we need to find out who was involved, because politicians from both parties/cia/nsa/fbi seem to have known more than they want us to believe they knew... execution without investigation is not justice!! would make us not better then them...

[gwbushisOnePoS]

log140:

Okay, go ahead and find out exactly who new what and when they knew about because I really don't care!

All I need to hear is that that PoS g. w. bush received the harshest punishment for Murder under American law.

I can't get more simple than that.

[artformeandyou]

It's because the ACLU is a joke of an organization that have lost their credentials many years ago.

[EdgardoJustice]

Nice work. keep it up.  rtfgsdg

[m0nkeybl1tz]

I think we all agree that transparency is good, and imprisonment without trial is bad. But guess what? Ain't nothing you can do about it. Regardless of what government is in power, they will always have the means to do whatever they want.

With that settled, you can look up the autopsy reports (YouTube won't let me post the link, but Google ACLU autopsy). My only guess is that for some reason the papers decided that without pictures like Abu Ghraib, the story wasn't interesting enough.

[TempestWriter]

Fuirthermore, I have also studied modern tyranny pretty well over the last couple of years, and while I'm not expert on it, I do understand it enough to realize that what you are suggesting would require a highly devolped secret police institution, with a wide network of informants and unlimited powers - something like the Stazi, StB, or Securiate. In other words it would take almost a revolution of sorts for America to get such an exstensive secret police infrastructure over such a short time

[valhala56]

Tempest, you really make me LOL. The US is already a Police state, compare it countries like England where some cops don't even carry guns.

Dude, the US has more people in prison then any other country in the world. The only western country that still executes people. Only up to a few years ago did we stop executing the retarded.

All Obama has to do is say the word & US becomes instant Totaltarian Police state.

Unfortunely for you dude, you will get to study tyranny up close & personal.

[valhala56]

BTW if you studied East Germany at the time of the Stazi you will read that most East Germans thought the Stazi was everywhere bugging everybody. The fact is only a small percentage of people were being watched by the Stazi, It was enough that everybody thought they were under Stazi surveillance. Research & see if this is not true.

Note: Stazi did not have near the technolgy the goverment has now in "Data Mining" & other surveilance tools that the Stazi couldn't have dreamed of.

[GBS990]

How many were beheaded?

They were all just troubled youths.

[n8glenn]

Yeah, they laughed at Kucinich and Gravel for opposing the war.

[starlight1946]

Its clear to me why Obama won't release the torture reports because he is protecting the Bush Administration so they don't go on trial for all they allowed.

[TempestWriter]

I find it incredibly unlikely that "every single editor in the country" refused to print something as earth shattering as these reports. Furthermore, though the vast majority of the media is biased, it is generally biased to the left making it even likelier for these reports to come out.

I suspect there is something missing from all this that this guy is not telling us. It strikes me as far more likely that these reports are fakes rather than media altogether ignoring such a big story

[mattblackcat]

I am not wishing to promote the conspiracy theory of life, but the 'media' will not print something it is not in their business/political interest to publish.

[TempestWriter]

Why wouldn't this be in their business interest to publish. Here you have a huge story in which the republican government at the time (which the media by and large seems to dislike) was coming off looking as bad as a tyrannical dictatorship.

The media had a lot to gain from publishing this story if it were true. Obviously they had nothing to fear from the government because (bill of rights aside) a small amount of newspapers did publish the story in the west, yet nothing happened to them.

[mattblackcat]

Firstly what i am about to say is pure speculation as I said before I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory of life.

Reasons not to publish

1. The reports and their conclusions maybe flawed or misleading in some manner and cannot verified as authentic.

3. Backlash from the pro war public and the loss of popular support for the 'war'

4. Editorial restraint/policy.

5. Political expediency

6. Not to give a propaganda victory to your enemy

[TempestWriter]

I suppose these could be actual reasons, however the first seems most likely to me and the most simple. While I'll admit that I'm speculating as much as you are, I need more proven to me that the government did kill than did not.

Especially since this suggests that the military is incredibly incompetent as they published the reports that suggest that they killed prisoners of war. It all just strikes me as incredibly stupid.

[valhala56]

Tempest, you don't understand large Bureaucracy like the Goverment or the Military. These are autopsy reports, completed by Patholgist's. Unless somone comes in and tells them to lie they will just call the cause of death as they see it. The matter of adjudication is not up to them.

Your last paragraph is probaly one reasons the editors chose not to run this, People would just choose not to belive it.

Nazi Germany for example, most German civilians did not have belive there were death camps

[TempestWriter]

Two things.

One, granted that bureaucracy is large and cumbersome, I still find it incredibly unlikely that such a sensitive issue was handled by the military so clumsily. If that were the case then the brass are borderline mindless.

Two, its only logical to assume innocence until proven guilty. This is idea is one we use both in the scientific method and the court of life, and there is no reason why it cannot be applied here.

[TempestWriter]

one more thing, even if those reports were accurate and not just far left propaganda, one cannot simply assume that these men were executed by the US military. There are number of different factors that could lead to the deaths, thus while an inquiry should be made, one cannot simply accuse the US government of murder.

[valhala56]

Cool dude, I don't have a problem with that.

Now in 2013 when they pick you up as a suspected "terrorist" and start beating you with a rubber hose, or maybe doing a nice pedicure on your toenails.....it's not torture, cause people like you will say hey we don't torture!

Tempest, dude the goverment just admitted they waterboard, this is a not ? mark. So what makes you think they will stop?

What makes you think it would never happen to you?

Good luck to ya in the FEMA camp.

LOL

[TempestWriter]

lol, oh I'm sure the US government will confuse some whose career is the study of ancient history with a terrorist. Because, you know, arresting and torturing enemies from other countries pulled off the battefield, is the same thing as pulling random citizens off the streets to beat with a rubber hose.

If the conspiracy theories and the evil government thing gets you through the day, more power to you. Please don't mind my skepticism.

[valhala56]

Tempest, I should cut you some slack cause your young & dumb.

I know this may be hard to belive but inncoent people are sent to prison all the time, later be released. It happens. So to say because your an art history major "They would never do that" is laughable.

No it may not be as simple as "random" an enemy of yours could turn you in,An informant, similar to when people get busted for drugs & the police offer lenicacy if they turn in more.

Well it could be you one day.

[valhala56]

Gitmo has already released I think in the dozens of innocent people. One Boznian they didn't have a shread of evidence they had for 7 1/2 years.

So let me inform you how much protection being a History major affords you. (0) LOL.

You really need to catch up on current affairs because you seem to be totaly lacking in the fact the US Goverment has already admitted to using Waterboarding over 250 times. They have memos from justics dept lawyers condoning this practice.

You are clueless.

[TempestWriter]

lol, its always nice to be patronized by my elders.

In any case, I never suggested that because I study history I was "protected" from tyranny. I only made that point to show how screwed the system would have to be should such a thing happen.

I also realize that innocent people go to prison all the time (one of the reasons I am against the death penalty).

[TempestWriter]

Finally, I'd also like to point out that such an unjust system is next to impossible in a multi-party system, for the simple fact that the opposing party would cry foul before the other party could get something like that established. You'll notice that all of the countries with oppressive systems also are ruled by one political party. Call me clueless if you wish, but I will continue to disagree with you.

[nailycai]

Instead postulating on what another says, you are supposed to check the original sources yourself.

[greatbroad]

@ TempestWriter

That's because you are young and still believe the US Government will protect you. Stick around. By the time you are my age, you will see it as the Enforcer for the Super-rich.

[mattblackcat]

Look out there are commies under your bed !

[greatbroad]

@ mattblackcat

No, those are just dust bunnies.

[mattblackcat]

:-D

[peacerebelgirl]

how awful, these stories emerging on torture that the media and the politicians want to whitewash. many of those who are detained are innocent: "Ex-Bush Official: Many at Guantanamo Bay Are Innocent"

[tattootomorrow]

This is frustrating to me, because all we talk about is waterboarding! I mean, come on. Tortured to death and we're dawdling around and electing Republicans still!

[valhala56]

Somtimes it's hard for some folks to come to grips with the fact that your country has done some very ugly things. I'm sure many Germans felt the same way about Nazi atrocities. They preferred that it would just go away.

These things don't go away they only get worse.

[handgrenadepin]

VERY good point

[greatbroad]

@ valhala56

Another story not reported is the one about the Scientists from the University of Copenhagen. In April, 2009, they published there findings about their analysis of WTC dust samples. (microscopic particles of Nano-Thermate, throughout)

Shakepeare's Hamlet observed, "Something smells rotten in Denmark" and I believe it is censorship making the stink.

[valhala56]

Well like many folks I had the Cable tv disconnected and hooked up an antenna.

I lost all trust in the MSM and figured I was being kinda stupid paying good money to be lied to, so I'll guess I'll get my gov manufactured lies for free now.

[greatbroad]

@ valhala56

Yeah, the bad news is the lies. The good news, if you would call it that, is people are realizing the meaning of FREEDOM the US Gov't is talking about for us is the one Janis Joplin sang of 40+ years ago...

"Freedom's just another word for 'nothing left to lose'."

[sailfished]

This was common knowledge amongst those of us who do NOT rely on m.s.m. for their information

[Blackliam]

Why would they not report that??????

Who the fuck are these people??????

[Chrisnoscrub047]

I want to subscribe to the newspapers that ran the story. The State runs the media. Controlling information allows the State to control the people.

[Slug99]

The state doesn't control the media, the media is just on the states side most of the time. It's like if you get into a fight, obviously your friends will help you and not the guy you're fighting.

[Chrisnoscrub047]

1. that is not obvious.

2. I should have said the media is controlled by the political class (who then turns around and are the ones that control the State) information affects how "the people" make decisions and if certain information may cause negative decisions toward the political class then...

3.How can you tell which side is the political class's side and which is the States? You can't. They're on in the same.

[Blackliam]

I guess this is why he was talking about the "micro-brewery journalism" thing huh.

Anyways if this shit happened in Canada I think the party in charge would be completely fucked

[RationalLiberty]

not in the U.S.- we only have two parties to choose from that will "win". If one party fucks up then we have only one other party to turn to. And what if they fuck up? Well, we hope the other party would have learned their lesson by election day and we rotate them back into power!

American democracy at its finest!

[tattootomorrow]

You can vote third party and they might win in local things. You just have to check polls first, and constantly lean left. This was the Right's war.

[RationalLiberty]

yes i agree to third party. I also agree on this being the rights war. However, its slowly becoming the lefts war too. its becoming ok to leave troops in iraq, spread the war to Pakistan, and escalate the fighting in afghanistan. Imperialistic endeavors repackaged i guess.

[tattootomorrow]

It is not ok to leave the troops in Iraq. We've been pulling hard against that all along.

When anarchists or no-party enthusiasts criticize the left as if it is similar to the right, you forget that the right supported torture and still does. I hate it when people can't see the difference between the two. It is gigantic. Maybe the left isn't perfect, but the right could be absolutely monstrously impossible to salvage.

[RationalLiberty]

I agree with you the left isnt perfect, but look at these imperfections- look at what the left has waffled on for "politics"- specifically the FISA legislation, the PATRIOT act, torture. And on the war, hell, the dems NEVER voted against war funding! Never! Obama only voted against it once, and they dare call themselves anti-war? HA! Its pathetic opposition, and in my mind half-assed opposition is NOT a legitimate alternative to standing on principles. In that sense, I see no difference.

[valhala56]

Tell me, where do you get that the Democratic party is anti war?

[RationalLiberty]

i dont. thats just what they supposedly ran on when they campaigned.

[valhala56]

Are you saying that you belive what comes out of politician's mouths?

Say like when George Bush said we are not in the Nation building business, or we don't torture, or Saddam has WMD's

hmmmm, I thought most intelligent people put as much trust into a politician as a car salesman.

[tattootomorrow]

I see a difference still. But, yes, in some limited, impassioned sense lots of people manage to miss the differences. Congratulations.

Anyway, yes, vote third party, that's fine. But when you pretend democrats are as bad as Republicans you aren't being sensible. Democrats did stop the torture. They will be the ones to prosecute it if anyone does. Republicans enacted it. "I see no difference." Ha.

[RationalLiberty]

Did democrats "stop the torture"? I was happy Obama stopped it. I was also happy he ended CIA black sites. I was also happy he closed gitmo.

But democrats didnt "stop the torture" (although a full investigation will get to the bottom of it) But torture still continues. Gitmo is STILL operating. The "U.S. blackshirts" are still being used.

How the hell can we trust that the CIA blacksites are closed? Is there ANY oversight of that agency? Torture was systemic though, and it seems obama--

[RationalLiberty]

--is just attacking the issue rhetorically. It is a difference though you are right, but the difference isnt what is needed (especially for criminal prosecutions that need to occur). We need much more rational action to torture. I cannot see prosecutions happening under the current democratic leadership, however, I am hopeful. But the actions obama has NOT taken on this issue are very disturbing to say the least. So there is a difference, but its not change from the establishment line.