All Americans are entitled under the constitution to have freedom of speech, worship, information, press, pursuit of happiness, sexuality, etc. under the law. The Conservatives' intolerant attempts to force their perception of marriage and sexuality under people's throats is unconstitutional and un-American.
NoRightsForGays = a registered gay hate bash channel who uses God for hate.Pls don't react on any of his comments and register this channel to You Tube. How to register? See our channel for help
@NoRightsForGays NoRightsForGays = a registered gay hate bash channel who uses God for hate.Pls don't react on any of his comments and register this channel to You Tube. How to register? See our channel for help
NoRightsForGays = a registered gay hate bash channel who uses God for hate.Pls don't react on any of his comments and register this channel to You Tube. How to register? See our channel for help
NoRightsForGays = a registered gay hate bash channel who uses God for hate.Pls don't react on any of his comments and register this channel to You Tube. How to register? See our channel for help
@NoRightsForGays When do we strip away the rights of all the divorced people in america. DIVORCE=ADULTERY ADULTERY = DEATH Why do you not hate the adulterous divorced community like you do the gay community. Gods law says death for both. If there are to be no rights for gays then no rights for the millions and millions of divorced adulterer's.
@NoRightsForGays - your ignorance never ceases to amaze me cupcake. you advocate "direct democracy" which is NOT a form of govt in the United States and was opposed by the founding fathers because it leads to persecution of the minority by the "tyranny of the majority." open a book sweetie - this is a "representative democracy" where elected officials represent their constituents and the judiciary upholds the canon of law not the whims of haters. don't like it? - move to iran.
@shannononononon you just stated the fact that being gay is a choice people choose who they fall in love with gays choose to be gay they do it because many gays are insecure about themselves this is why you see so many gays and lesbians switch sexes a man turns into a women and a women turns into a man can you honestly sit there and tell me there is nothing wrong with that? God created us the way he wanted us for a reason and if you believe in evelution you were made a man or women for a purpose
@shannononononon How do i know what God told them to write? Beacuse everything that happened in the bible and says in the bible is true u need proof? the bible predicts the future in revelation and it is coming true there have also been numerous documents about Jesus's sayings and how they were all true and another thing why in a time when homosexualty was accepted would some random guy say that homosexualty is evil and wrong? Im not disrespecting gays I am just saying that it is not right
I will give the a compelling factor of why the government end the courts should rule in favor of Prop 8. soon enough God himself will come in in this issue and he will have the last say.
How can stupid religious fanatics say that homosexuality is a choice. Only people in LGBT knows who they are. For a straight religious person to say how we feel about ourselves is ignorant.
@tkathryyn can you honsetly sit there and tell me that homesexualty is normal? if you are a guy or a girl how can you look at your own gender like that even you who claims there is no God were still created a man or women therefore you should be attracted to the opposite sex homosexuality is a mental disorder
@lilkj20 Well, anything minority to you is not "normal". Just because I was born male doesn't mean that I have to be attracted to female. You have a one track mind. You can only comprehend what you see in front of you. To confuse you even more...I'm actually a transexual who dates only female. This means I'm a lesbian psychologically. Let me explain it simpler,..I was born male, transformed myself to female and now date only female. Still don't get it? Because your brain hasn't evolved yet.
Now that gay marriage is ok California say's so.You can get married if you are gay or if you are a lesbo.Now you homos get in line before the voters change their minds :P
Jesus Christ is calling mankind out of sin and for mankind to repent that they maybe saved. Jesus love everyone and want all to obey his Father's commandment and by obeying the Father you will live and reign with him in heaven. Jesus Christ has proven his love on the cross, ask the Father to give you wisdom, understanding daily until there is a change ,and as the Father to open your eyes to the truth of his word.
Romans 10:9 is the sinners prayer to be saved. Repent time is running out.
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house--Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers [fn] --so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish
Luke 16:19 "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. Luk 16:20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, Luk 16:21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Its dark, there is no night or day, you can not sleep or rest, there is nothing to drink, and its hot. If the Bible is right then Hell is in the heart of our earth. Why does everyone feel that they must be on this side or that side there are so many things that can be looked at as unresolved like what it claims to be, a mystery. If the Bible's wrong then nothing is lost or gained because you will no nothing but if its true then many of you have got big problems awaiting you on the other side.
@sprinkle888 I think you forgot that part of the Bible that says...do unto others as you would have the do unto you. You really need to take religion out of Civil Rights issues, just look at recent US history to prove religion has no place when it comes to human / civil rights
@chicraig6421: The more man remove God out the God will bring in his wrath: jeremiah chatper 5:22 - Do you not fear Me?' says the LORD. 'Will you not tremble at My presence, Who have placed the sand as the bound of the sea, By a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass beyond it? And though its waves toss to and fro, Yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot pass over it.
@sprinkle888 Correct the God i love and who loves me does not want me to fear, but wants me to love. One can take parts of the Bible and say all kinds of things. Please do go and fear God, I will just go ahead and love God and who I choose as God intended.
Doesn't really matter what you quote, one must not push their religious beliefs on others who may not believe as they do. The right to marry is a civil matter not a religious one.
@chicraig6421 Many complain of hearing Preachers teach on prosperity, but when someone tells you more of God's word you complain about that. This is a rebellious generation, ungodly and wicked. This generation wants someone to sugar coat the gospel of Jesus Christ and avoid the rest of his word.
@sprinkle888 My complaint is that you are trying to push your beliefs the Bible on others. You believe it to be the word of God, I do not - just check out who wrote it and why and when. When was the last time you sacrificed a lamb to goat thats in the Bible. You fear God, I do not.
All that a side - this is a civil matter - gay marriage - not a reglious one. The US Constitution is color blind, race and gender blind, holds no religion above another, makes it clear there shall be no classes
@idaman12345 yes when the prophets were writting the books they were inspired by the holy spirt God told them what to write and the apostles chose certain books but there is no man made proof of this and if you believe in God you would know that not everything in the bible you can prove in a scientific matter
GOD is telling this Nation to........................... REPENT.................Time is running out, on judgment day there will be no excuses, no more mercy, and no more forgiveness of sin.
@therealgirljpunk: Are you speaking for yourself? then take out we. Your way of thinking/attitude is similar to the Judge that made this ruling. The Judge stolen the votes of the people that were in favor of Prop 8.
"The Judge stolen the votes of the people that were in favor of Prop 8."
The US constitution, Amendment 14 section1:
NO state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the PRIVILEGES or immunities of citizens of the United States; no shall any State DEPRIVE any person of life, LIBERTY . . .
Just because the majority of people vote for something does not make it constitutional.
@sprinkle888 That is what Satan want you to believe and all his other followers, you see our victory the Saints is at the end when all this is over. The word of God tells the Saints that we win and we believe God.
1 John 5:4 - For every child of God defeats this evil world by trusting Christ to give the victory.
@newguyout Can you give me the scripture where it says that in the end Satan wins, are even the wicked sinners with unrepentant sin wins, god haters, and the unsaved wins, are commandment breakers
..............No because its not written in God's Holy word.................So you can laugh now, but in the end their will be weeping and gnashing of teeth according to the Holy scriptures: Luke 13:28
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
The Great White Throne Judge is all the commandment breakers, unbelievers, and God haters will be judged:
Revelation chapter 20 verses 11 to 15: And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
The Homosexuals got together and had a meeting 23 years ago and decided to take over by moving into high positions to change laws, meet our sons and daughters in closed location to recruit them and if the Churches do not accept them, their plans are to take over the Church; Well they have did just that. Saints get ready for Jesus Christ is soon come, its almost over.
Satan is running this world system along with his evil demons.
Ephesians 6:14 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked spirits in the heavenly realms.
@yogabear1962 There's a famous artist(I can't remember his name)who is as we speak dying from being ravaged from the most painful kind of cancer known to man. If he moves at all he scream in pain.
He spent his entire life railing against God as being a joke & a myth. Now he says "I'm being punished for mocking God".........Seems EVERYONE believes sooner or later. Hope you don't meet the same fate fatty.
@yogabear1962 No problem. I know I can't make you conform but someone else can!! Guess you'll be screaming in agony as well before heading off to a real warm place for EVER!
It amazes me that fools like you can look at our solar system, the earth, all animal like forms & the intricate details of nature & animals, the fact that earth would be inhabitable if just 50 miles further or closer to the sun, oxygen levels to sustain life & think ........."oh its all just coincidence"...Worship Gov't!
@flyboymd82 UNinhabitable that is(before you can attack a mistake & call me an "Ignorant, racist, trailer park redneck, sister fucking retard" like all the other moron libnuts do)LOL!
@flyboymd82 Well at least in this answer you try to use some science, nice try. But what sort of plan is it that this god has which allows for such ambiguity that we don’t know which god to worship. If there were one god there would be one who perhaps created man. But there aren’t, there are MANY gods therefore the only logical conclusion is that the concept of god was created by man. And therefore you have no basis to deny two consenting adults to be married.
@flyboymd82 Brilliant so what about all the christians who have praied all their lives and are devoted to god that are suffering the same fate? Seems very convenient to give god credit for the same thing you cant explain in others. If you want to turn your back on science and reason thats fine but I will NOT be subject to your will which is all you have. god is not on your side because he doesnt exist.
@flyboymd82 Oh and calling me names dosnt hurt my feelings so dont waist your character count on that. And as for everyone believing that is not true. There are countless peole who have died without the slightest clue of the existance of your ferry tale god. Stick to facts please - oh thats right you dont have any so you just say stuff to take up space. LOL
@flyboymd82 Yea you win the spelling bee but making such a big issue out of that simple mistake on my part continues to prove my point that those on your side of this cannot actually come up with any real reasons to prevent gay marriage. Glad you are amused but if you are serious you will actually say something of substance. There are no studies that show that gay parents are bad and that gay marriage hurts straight folks who want to or who are married. Stick to the point
Honestly, the Roberts Court is more than likely to rule against Gay Marriage. Of course the key comes down to Kennedy. However, I'm curious on how liberals think they'll be able to force the majority of the states to even obey the Supreme Court ruling if it's against conventional marriage. It took the US over a century to end de jure segregation (even though it exists in a de facto state). Finally, I'm going to laugh if conservatives pass a US Constitutional amendment banning Gay Marriage.
In March Roberts rejected to review the Washington DC same-sex law. I strongly agree with the libertarian values of Anthony Kennedy and Ron Paul. Kennedy and Paul proved to be on the right side of history on all major big strategic questions of our time. Ron Paul continues to surprise anti-libertarian big government conservatives like yourself. we need less big government, less regulation and more liberty.
@indielounge LOL! I'm a paleoconservative/libertarian, so I'm confused on what you're basing this label on? I'm merely here on this video clip to debate the issue in a cordial manner.
@rtgoodson - this is a case of liberty vs. government interference. This is a classic example where the federal constitution has a key role. The founding fathers created the constitution on legal PRINCIPLES, including liberty from government interference, due process and equality before the law. It's liberty or fascism or communism. I choose liberty. Others seem to choose Iran and Sharia Law. This is a big, big issue, an historic choice between liberty and the dark ages.
@indielounge Really? Due process and equality before the law never emerged until the 14th amendment. You argue freedom and liberty, yet you're asking the government to force people into accepting your views. As a private business owner, should I be allowed to discriminate against people based on my personal views? As a libertarian, the answer is affirmative. Sexual orientation is a personal choice and equating it to racism, gender, or disability discrimination is a laughable.
Due process was there from the very start- it was part of the English common law. The Declaration of Independence lists the lack of jury trials as a complaint. This is a key example of due process. Due process is a very old and traditional fundamental principle. As a libertarian, I think the Constitution protects the citizens against the state. If a businessman does not want to enter into a contract, the government has no business to intervene.
@indielounge The Declaration of Independence has zero legal authority. Thanks for playing. I have a law degree. I don't need a history class in legal authority. The Constitution was originally designed as check against the federal government. Marriage regulation is a power granted to the states. Liberals have perverted the original constitution. LGBT rights are a liberal invention to justify a special class for people based on their behavior.
Does the 14th Amendment not have 'any legal authority'? The common law certainy always was and still is part of the legal sytstem. I only mentioned the Declaration of Independence to demonstrate that the founding fathers wanted to STRENGTHEN and not WEAKEN due process and the rule of law. I would highly recommend to look at the arguments of David Boies, a solid conservative and highly regarded expert on constitutional law. I used to be against gay marriage years ago but I was wrong.
@indielounge Of course the 14th Amendment has legal authority in today's society. However, like all laws, its meaning is open to personal review, and, in the end, legal enforcement. Liberals want you to believe that homosexuals are a protected class in society and that their personal behavior is equal to the discrimination based upon race, gender, or disability. In reality, the two are essentially different. In the end, legal opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.
lol I am glad we agree on something after all. I respect your view and I know where you are coming from. However, having a better understanding of the dangers of big government (massive budget deficits, high taxes, more regulation), the idea of individual liberty is of the highest importance. If the state gets involved in the marriage lic business, the state cannot turn it's back on tax-paying, law-obeying citizens. This is not Iran!!
@rtgoodson As someone who is also a libertarian I believe that the government should get out of the marriage business altogether. Marriage should be a private matter between two consenting adults no matter the gender of each partner. Just as a couple doesn't need a license to move in together, a couple shouldn't need government permission to enter into what is essentially a contract. You call yourself a libertarian but support using the vote to take away the liberty of someone else.
@moondogjack1978 Should an adult be free to consent to be murdered or assaulted? Laws are a reflection of our society and the rules that we choose to live by. A state has a vested interest in promoting marriage, and, the society at large has a right to determine what "marriage" means. They have the same right to determine what civil or criminal laws to pass and follow.
@indielounge Also, why are you bringing Sharia Law into this? This court case doesn't bother me in the least. The 9th Circuit has zero legal authority over me in the 11th Circuit, and, if the Supreme Court doesn't want to hear this case, then it'll never be an issue in this area of the country. Honestly, do you really think that the Southern Circuit Judges are going to uphold Gay Marriage? LOL! Finally, the 9th Circuit is overturned roughly 75% of the time.
I think it is dangerous when sects and out of state churches intervene in the democratic process. Judges believe in the rule of law. Judges will uphold the law. That doesn't mean that a judge who disagrees with a particular view will not voice this in his community or his family. I am conservative myself and I went to a church school, I was not abused, I received an outstanding education. However, the moral teachings of the church are separate from civil law.
@indielounge The "moral teachings of the church" are a direct reflection of our culture and laws. The foundation of our political and legal system is based upon the Judeo-Christian teachings.
You said in an earlier post that you were agnostic. Yes, our culture is based on Judea-Christian teachings. The reason why the west outperformed dictatorships like Cuba, Iran and Communism is because we believe in freedom, liberty and private business and NOT in big government. Only a small percentage of the population are gay. If your best friend told you he was gay would it turn you gay? of course not. lol. gays who marry actually re-affirm conservative values (monogamy).
"our political and legal system is based upon the Judeo-Christian teachings. "
That is BS. The constitution never mentions Jesus, Christianity, or Judaism. It only mentions religion to say that we have the right to it and that government is not to get involved.
Also, the Bible does not endorse democracy.
John Winthrip, governor of the Mass. Bay Colony said, ""If we should change from a mixed aristocracy to mere democracy, first we should have no warrant in scripture for it..."
All I am saying is that liberty is the most important principle of our Constitution. The role of government should be limited. States and the federal government should stay out of the marriage lic business altogether. The whole point of the Constitution is to protect us from excessive government and arbitrary laws. We should encourage private enterprise and business and not go down the slippery slope of big government. California's business heartland strongly opposed prop 8.
@indielounge Yet, the majority of California's voters approved Prop. 8. The state has a vested interest in promoting heterosexual marriage for the continuation of the state. Honestly, marriage licenses are only around a century in age, but, without a civil contract, property and estate interests are left to flood the courts in litigation. It became a matter of judicial interest to promote personal unions.
@rtgoodson If Republicans never had the guts to ban gay marriage while Bush was in office (at a time when those shits were cocky as shit) then they won't have the balls to do it now.
Republicans are like a stalker....... rejection only makes them crazier. LOL!
@thenotsosilentmind So, I'm guessing that you would support polygamy, incest, et cetera. Should these people be given special rights status? As such, my query to you is why should we even allow marriage in the first place since we're destroying the foundational meaning of marriage?
It is amazing how many people think they know what is right for everyone else. The Bible and their screwed up god that they put in their own image now think they can put on the world their views. Guess what it is dying...you are losing because people are waking up, slowly but indeed stupid people are being drowned out by enlightened people...Freedom means my rights are sovereign and I own them!!!
This is a historic victory for all Californians! The evidence clearly showed that Mormons and other out-of-state pressure groups lied to voters and there is no legitimate government interest to justify the refusal of a CIVIL MARRIAGE license. The civilised western world can be proud that we don't believe in Sharia (Muslim) law, we believe in eqaulity before the law and the rule of law. Californians and the entire nation can be proud of this historic victory for good over evil.
@indielounge Well, until you piss off the Conservative States and they come together to pass a Defense of Marriage Amendment to the Constitution, or until the Roberts Court overturn's this ban. (Queue Music)...Next up: Polygamy!
I don't think the government should be involved in regulating marriage. This is a CIVIL LAW issue. I don't have a comment on your religious views. The Republican governor of California, the judge (nominated by Reagan), the top Conservative constitutional lawyer who secured Bush (jr) the presidency are surely no lefties. All my conservative friends agree that Prop 8 serves no legitimate government interest. In fact, gay marriage is a victory and affirmation of traditional marriage.
@indielounge My views on religion? I'm agnostic. Where have I mentioned religion in any of these posts? My entire point with these posts is that your sexual orientation is a behavioral choice that is partially influenced by your environment during the developmental years. A behavioral choice isn't the same as being born with a certain color, gender, or disability. More liberal propaganda.
@indielounge Why are you even bringing Bush into this conversation? He won legally won the election, and the entire debate was nothing but a democratic sideshow to press their agenda. Also, I'm going to go out on a limb, because I'm assuming he's not doing this pro-bono, and state that any lawyer, no matter his personal views, will work on any case if the money is there.
Roberts may think strategically and opt not to hear the case because the facts in Perry v Schwarzenegger are unique and may well be limited to Prop 8 in California. The trial heavily relied on factual evidence. The facts in California strongly support opponents of Prop 8. The ban on interracial marriage served no legitimate government interest. Equally, the ban on same-sex marriage serves no legitimate gov interest. Civil law and church law are separate, California is not Iran.
@indielounge You're comparing your ethnic color to a deviant sexual behavior. You can control your behavior, but you can't control your race. Also, we all know that the Roberts Court isn't going to turn down this case when it comes up on appeal (same goes for the Osama ObamaCare Law). The state has a vested interest in promoting traditional marriage over deviant marriage. What's next? Shall we grant special rights to consenting adults interested in polygamy or incest?
@indielounge Finally, how do you think the federal government is going to enforce gay marriage in traditionally conservative states? It took over a century to end de jure segregation, but I still laugh at that notion considering de facto segregation exists today. I'll find it hilarious when the conservatives come together and pass a Defense of Marriage Amendment to the US Constitution limiting it to Man and Woman. .
If we went by what the majority wanted then women would never had been given the right to vote and Rosa Parks would have been forced to sit in the back of the bus by law.
@thenotsosilentmind You're DEAD ASS WRONG! California Supreme court ruled prop 8 CONSTITUTIONAL!
It shouldn't even be in the Federal Courts anyway. Marriage isn't even mentioned in the Constitution & the Constitution says "Any rights herein not granted to the Federal Gov't are States rights & the peoples rights". The Feds have NO BUSSINESS in this issue.
How does this 'steal our rights'? Because 7 Million people voted YES on prop 8 & one Gay man overturned them. Why bother even voting?
Marriage is ordained by GOD and is between a MAN and WOMAN. It has always been that way. My children will know that being GAY is a sin; not to mention it is against Natural Law. God loves ALL people, but he does not love ALL the sins we do. Gay marriage is WRONG. I don’t care anymore about being politically correct. This country is in for a HUGE surprise.
YAY!!! :D I hope it lasts!! Marriage is a funny little human ritual anyways, so, everyone has the right to spend thousands of dollars on a cooky, tasty and velvety wedding cake :D
1) "When two consenting adults love each other and want to be married, they should have that right"
2) " Conservatives who consider our lifestyle repugnant have no business deciding whether two consenting adults should be allowed to marry. That's just hate."
Do YOU agree wth these statements?..YES or NO?
BUT GAYS ARE HYPOCRITES because even THEY would not allow two consenting men if FATHER & SON to marry because even GAYS would see it as repugnant.
The people who are against gay marriage are the same people who just want gays to go away,period. They think that if that were to happen then all of a sudden the world would become a paradise.
All we want is equality under the law and to be left alone.
I agree in the judge's ruling. All Humans should be given the freedom to do as they wish in their life. It is in the constitution and freedom is the American way.
However, this will not change the behavior of the gay community. They will continue their lifestyle of promiscuity, alcoholism, & clubbing.
Believe in god or not, but gay people will just have to accept the fact that the human race is created to endorse marriage between a Man & Woman. And nothing will ever compensate for that.
@actartie Why feel the need to attack heterosexuals in this? I have not made a comparison between heterosexuals & Gay's. I am making a observation of the Gay culture as it is.
You may call it stereotyping, but before you do that, perhaps you should first go walk down any street hosting a gay pride festival, in the middle of the day, and see if it is "child friendly". I support freedom , and it is unfair one group of people be singled out, however, the gay culture needs a lot to be desired for.
@MrJay429 Well, my query is simply this: What's next with marriage? Are we going to allow Polygamy, Incest, et cetera to be considered for legal marriage? The funny thing is that the Roberts Court will likely overturn this ruling when it reaches the Supreme Court, and, even if they don't, there is still the issue of getting the various states to uphold the ruling allowing Gay "Marriage." Also, I would find it hilarious if Conservative States passed a Marriage Amendment to the US Constitution.
@rtgoodson I agree with freedom for all. However,your argument bears some truth in it. What is next?
My belief is marriage should only be reserved for a Man & Woman, under holy matrimony, under god. But that gay people be given the right, or freedom, to be ACKNOWLEDGED as a couple under a civil partnership, in other words, they can get married, but outside church.
What they are seeking here is to be legally acknowledged as a gay couple. IMO, two adults should be given the freedom to do that.
@MrJay429 Well, my query is why should we change the definition of marriage to accomodate someone's behavior? Gay/lesbians would like for people to believe that their lifestyle isn't a choice, but that it's a genetic defect starting from birth. However, no scientific proof exists to essentially state that homosexuality isn't a behavioral defect resulting from a person's environment, et cetera. Using your logic, any group can claim special rights under the law.
"why should we change the definition of marriage?"
The definition already been changed. PAST TENSE.
Marriage used to be the transferring of property (woman) from one man to another, father to groom. Women couldn't vote, own property, could be beaten, etc. Marriage was defined so that women had to obey men.
Then straights decided that was wrong and changed the definition.
Now, civil marriage is a legally binding contract between two legally autonomous individuals.
@MisterGibs Well, the discussion for civil marriage is open for debate. My query simply involves around where we draw the line on this issue? What's to stop another group from asserting that they have a legal right to marry, and where does it end? Should we reverse our opinions concerning polygamy? This is a slippery slope.
@MrJay429 Well, you can argue for the right to a civil union, but what's to stop a person engaged in polygamy or incest from asserting the same argument under the law? The query boils down to a debate with a slippery slope argument concerning a behavior issue instead of an issue resulting from birth or an accident.
This is only the beginning. This will probably go all the way to the Supreme Court, so the fight still rages on! A win at the final federal level will be an amazing precedent and a huge step to ensure equality for all just like the US Constitution demands. Seperation of church and state! Keep on fighting everyone!! A great victory today!
@actartie LOL! Until you enrage the Conservative base in this country, and they come together to pass a Defense of Marriage Amendment to the US Constitution. Also, there is the simple issue of the Federal Government enforcing this issue to the states, especially the Bible Belt (good luck with that), if the decision is upheld once it reaches the Supreme Court.
@rtgoodson ha! I didn't say it was going to be easy, but I'll take victories one at a time and deal with whatever comes in the way accordingly. I don't ever expect anything like this to be handed to me. I'm not that naive.
@actartie Technically, I'm a conservative and against gay marriage, however, I can still carry on a cordial debate concerning the issue. Honestly, I don't see how the judge came up with his ruling. Should we allow people to practice polygamy, incest, et cetera, and, if so, then why should we even allow marriage to occur since the foundational meaning no longer exists? The technical defense is that the act occurs among consenting adults, but should we extend those rights to everyone?
@rtgoodson I understand your view completely. In fact, I will agree. If I'm going to say marriage equality for all consenting adults, then it should stand for all. I think it's the whole institution of marriage that's faulty. I will take this as a victory for equal rights; however, it doesn't address the gender roles, sexism, classism that the institution of marriage itself perpetuates. So it in no way solves a lot, but I think it does show a step in the right direction
Another Judicail activist judge. These leftists are going to start a civil war in this Country. prop 8 was declared Constitutional by the Calif Supreme Court & this asshole just stole the votes of 7 Million people. Why bother fucking voting in this Country when an Activist Judge can just steal it?
We are losing our Country bit by bit. Its time for a revolution. These radical leftists are stealing our rights & our Country & turning it into a decadant shithole.
@flyboymd82 Listen, if you Anti-American bigots can't handle the TRUE values of the American justice system, then move to a more welcoming place in which the majority can freely take away the basic and equal rights of the minority. I heard Iran is nice this time of year... You non-muslim bigots should flourish there. And it would leave this Great land to the REAL Americans, who actually believe in the freedom and equality that our ancestors fought for.
@biggtk You're such a moron you're not even worth arguing with. When the Gov't goes against the will of the people, its called tyranny you idiot!
You gays are the fucking bigots & the will of the majority is how this Country works. Its in our Constitution. Perhaps its YOU who needs to move to a Communist Country where the few control the masses agaist their will?
@flyboymd82 It's the equivalent of the law letting 13 people vote on whether eating meat should be banned; with 11 of the people in the group being Anti-meat eating vegans, and the other 2 people being meat eaters. What you eat is your business, as long as you're not infringing on another person's rights. In the same way, the 1 adult partner that someone chooses to marry is private, and should not be up to other people to dictate.
@biggtk You're wrong. Just because you like something doesn't make it a "right". A society has the RIGHT to make societal standards for itself & people do not want gays to marry. Why can't you be happy with civil unions? Marriage is in the eye of the Church.
This really has nothing to do with gays. Its a way to destroy the family in a society. Ever read Karl Marx's rantings about the need to destroy the family unit so communism can work properly? Take a look at it.
@flyboymd82 "Just because you like something doesn't make it a "right""
I never said anything about liking it or not. Nor did I say if it was 'right' or not. But I do love the idea of gays being allowed to cement their relationships in legal marriage, and I do believe it is right to partake in gay marriage if you're in a relationship with someone of the same sex.
@flyboymd82 "A society has the RIGHT to make societal standards for itself "
For PUBLIC issues, not private issues or rights. Timmy and Tom's marriage has nothing to do with YOU, or anyone else. It is their right, as it is your right to marry one person of either opposite or same sex as well. How would you feel if the courts just allowed ONLY homosexuals a right to vote on whether straight people should have the right to get married?
@flyboymd82 "Then why were you for Gov't controled healthcare?"
You speak as if you know me, when you don't. And I've never been for government controlled healthcare, and I don't remember saying that I was.
"Anti-smoking laws"
Because no one should be able to have the right to make other people sick through second hand smoke, in public places. That infringes on other people's civil rights.
@biggtk Wow, you'd be the first liberal to say they weren't for free healthcare, but you ALREADY said you think its a great thing??
Watching two men hold hands & kissing in public makes ME sick! So I think I'll file a lawsuit for this Judge infringing on my civil rights! Which "civil right" says I have the right not to get sick? LOL!
Like bloomberg making transfats illegal in New York City & another law just passed dictating salt content of food in NYC.......
@flyboymd82 I would like to insert a simple thought pattern into this debate. Proponents of Gay Marriage would argue that it's an essential right to marry someone and that their civil rights are being infringed. However, nothing in the US Constitution grants the right to marry, and, the key distinction to this debate, is that every prior issue of equal rights comes about with things out of a person's control: race, disability, et cetera. However, nothing stipulates that "behavior" is a right.
@rtgoodson "he key distinction to this debate, is that every prior issue of equal rights comes about with things out of a person's control: race, disability, et cetera. However, nothing stipulates that "behavior" is a right."
If that's the case, then how did we get freedom of religion? Is religion not a choice? Is there not a majority in American that views non-christian religions as wrong? If so, then why was the religious minority's right to not be christians protected in the constitution?
@flyboymd82 " but you ALREADY said you think its a great thing"
In a perfect society free healthcare would be a great thing. However in the real world, doctors need compensation (and rightfully so), and I want to give it to them. But not at the price of health insurance taking away massive parts of people's income. And I'm not a liberal, I'm a moderate.
"Like bloomberg making transfats illegal in New York City"
So, your position is that the government should protect our right to slowly poison yourselves but, not our right to marry the parents of our children.
@flyboymd82 "Watching two men hold hands & kissing in public makes ME sick! So I think I'll file a lawsuit for this Judge infringing on my civil rights!"
Umm sweetie, it doesn't make you sick because there is a physical mass of toxic air or illness infesting you, but because you're mentally weak. It's YOUR problem if you don't want to see two guys kiss. Simply turn your head around and don't look.
@flyboymd82 "Which "civil right" says I have the right not to get sick? LOL!"
You have the right not be contaminated or physically harmed by someone else's actions. However, men kissing is not proven to physically harm or contaminate people's health, so you wouldn't have a case. It's your own PSYCHE that is causing you discomfort, not the actions of two men kissing. Nice try though. It was cute.
@flyboymd82 "Why can't you be happy with civil unions"
Because for 1, we want marriage, not civil unions. And 2, it would undermine the purpose of civil unions for those who actually don't want to get married, but have some of the same benefits (and less of the consequences that come with divorce) as marriage.
@MisterGibs They already have them. Its called Civil unions. You even admitted earlier that gay marriage & civil unions provide the same legal protections.
All Americans are entitled under the constitution to have freedom of speech, worship, information, press, pursuit of happiness, sexuality, etc. under the law. The Conservatives' intolerant attempts to force their perception of marriage and sexuality under people's throats is unconstitutional and un-American.
TheVoiceOfReason93 4 months ago
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thestopgayhatelist 1 year ago
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thestopgayhatelist 1 year ago
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thestopgayhatelist 1 year ago
NoRightsForGays = a registered gay hate bash channel who uses God for hate.Pls don't react on any of his comments and register this channel to You Tube. How to register? See our channel for help
thestopgayhatelist 1 year ago
@NoRightsForGays Retarded Gay bash channels have no right to deserve an answer. My gay-god forbids that.
thestopgayhatelist 1 year ago
@NoRightsForGays When do we strip away the rights of all the divorced people in america. DIVORCE=ADULTERY ADULTERY = DEATH Why do you not hate the adulterous divorced community like you do the gay community. Gods law says death for both. If there are to be no rights for gays then no rights for the millions and millions of divorced adulterer's.
NCCAJAX 1 year ago
@NoRightsForGays you are a registered hater on you tube
thestopgayhatelist 1 year ago
@NoRightsForGays so many things wrong with that statement
the fact you go with the lie about how many homosexuals are in this nation
adn that you call them "sexual deviants"
idaman12345 1 year ago
@NoRightsForGays or you know they could be restoring equal rights for all
something this great nation was founded on
idaman12345 1 year ago
@NoRightsForGays - your ignorance never ceases to amaze me cupcake. you advocate "direct democracy" which is NOT a form of govt in the United States and was opposed by the founding fathers because it leads to persecution of the minority by the "tyranny of the majority." open a book sweetie - this is a "representative democracy" where elected officials represent their constituents and the judiciary upholds the canon of law not the whims of haters. don't like it? - move to iran.
thegayprovocateur 1 year ago
@shannononononon you just stated the fact that being gay is a choice people choose who they fall in love with gays choose to be gay they do it because many gays are insecure about themselves this is why you see so many gays and lesbians switch sexes a man turns into a women and a women turns into a man can you honestly sit there and tell me there is nothing wrong with that? God created us the way he wanted us for a reason and if you believe in evelution you were made a man or women for a purpose
lilkj20 1 year ago
@shannononononon How do i know what God told them to write? Beacuse everything that happened in the bible and says in the bible is true u need proof? the bible predicts the future in revelation and it is coming true there have also been numerous documents about Jesus's sayings and how they were all true and another thing why in a time when homosexualty was accepted would some random guy say that homosexualty is evil and wrong? Im not disrespecting gays I am just saying that it is not right
lilkj20 1 year ago
I will give the a compelling factor of why the government end the courts should rule in favor of Prop 8. soon enough God himself will come in in this issue and he will have the last say.
Mr123me321 1 year ago
How can stupid religious fanatics say that homosexuality is a choice. Only people in LGBT knows who they are. For a straight religious person to say how we feel about ourselves is ignorant.
tkathryyn 1 year ago
@tkathryyn can you honsetly sit there and tell me that homesexualty is normal? if you are a guy or a girl how can you look at your own gender like that even you who claims there is no God were still created a man or women therefore you should be attracted to the opposite sex homosexuality is a mental disorder
lilkj20 1 year ago
@lilkj20 Well, anything minority to you is not "normal". Just because I was born male doesn't mean that I have to be attracted to female. You have a one track mind. You can only comprehend what you see in front of you. To confuse you even more...I'm actually a transexual who dates only female. This means I'm a lesbian psychologically. Let me explain it simpler,..I was born male, transformed myself to female and now date only female. Still don't get it? Because your brain hasn't evolved yet.
tkathryyn 1 year ago
@lilkj20 please tell us doc, where did you get your phd in psychiatry
since you seem to think that homosexuality is a mental disorder
idaman12345 1 year ago
fuck any god we are people
if a god says no and it takes my rights away
i will fight for it
and will DIE FOR IT
im not gay but i opposed prop 8
i hope these stays and doesnt get over turned
solidfox000 1 year ago
Now that gay marriage is ok California say's so.You can get married if you are gay or if you are a lesbo.Now you homos get in line before the voters change their minds :P
director2555 1 year ago
Jesus Christ is calling mankind out of sin and for mankind to repent that they maybe saved. Jesus love everyone and want all to obey his Father's commandment and by obeying the Father you will live and reign with him in heaven. Jesus Christ has proven his love on the cross, ask the Father to give you wisdom, understanding daily until there is a change ,and as the Father to open your eyes to the truth of his word.
Romans 10:9 is the sinners prayer to be saved. Repent time is running out.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 jesus loves you, everyone else thinks your'e an asshole!
justin76bmw 1 year ago
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Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house--Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers [fn] --so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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Luke 16:19 "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. Luk 16:20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, Luk 16:21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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Its dark, there is no night or day, you can not sleep or rest, there is nothing to drink, and its hot. If the Bible is right then Hell is in the heart of our earth. Why does everyone feel that they must be on this side or that side there are so many things that can be looked at as unresolved like what it claims to be, a mystery. If the Bible's wrong then nothing is lost or gained because you will no nothing but if its true then many of you have got big problems awaiting you on the other side.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
I have given all of you God's words straight from the Bible and you still refuse to obey his commandments.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 Thats right, because we have a constitution that gives everyone the right to not believe the fairytales if we don't want to.
You can't make us do shit.
If doing it because the bible says so is such a good reason, then why didn't your side present that reason in this court case? EXACTLY
newguyout 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 I think you forgot that part of the Bible that says...do unto others as you would have the do unto you. You really need to take religion out of Civil Rights issues, just look at recent US history to prove religion has no place when it comes to human / civil rights
chicraig6421 1 year ago
@chicraig6421: The more man remove God out the God will bring in his wrath: jeremiah chatper 5:22 - Do you not fear Me?' says the LORD. 'Will you not tremble at My presence, Who have placed the sand as the bound of the sea, By a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass beyond it? And though its waves toss to and fro, Yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot pass over it.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 Correct the God i love and who loves me does not want me to fear, but wants me to love. One can take parts of the Bible and say all kinds of things. Please do go and fear God, I will just go ahead and love God and who I choose as God intended.
Doesn't really matter what you quote, one must not push their religious beliefs on others who may not believe as they do. The right to marry is a civil matter not a religious one.
chicraig6421 1 year ago
@chicraig6421 Many complain of hearing Preachers teach on prosperity, but when someone tells you more of God's word you complain about that. This is a rebellious generation, ungodly and wicked. This generation wants someone to sugar coat the gospel of Jesus Christ and avoid the rest of his word.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 My complaint is that you are trying to push your beliefs the Bible on others. You believe it to be the word of God, I do not - just check out who wrote it and why and when. When was the last time you sacrificed a lamb to goat thats in the Bible. You fear God, I do not.
All that a side - this is a civil matter - gay marriage - not a reglious one. The US Constitution is color blind, race and gender blind, holds no religion above another, makes it clear there shall be no classes
chicraig6421 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 the bible was written by man not god
idaman12345 1 year ago
@idaman12345 God told man what to write therefore it is by God
lilkj20 1 year ago
@lilkj20 any proof of that?
idaman12345 1 year ago
@idaman12345 yes when the prophets were writting the books they were inspired by the holy spirt God told them what to write and the apostles chose certain books but there is no man made proof of this and if you believe in God you would know that not everything in the bible you can prove in a scientific matter
lilkj20 1 year ago
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blainebill39 1 year ago
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@lilkj20
Actually my friend, and believe me, I'm right with you!
There is much extant evidence, and many Biblical scolars ,as well as theologians
concure, that the Pentateuch( 5 Books-Torah) was not commited to papyri(paper)
untill as late as the Babylonian captivity(587 B.C.E). Most of the prophets themselves
were illiterate!
Cheers!
Blaine
blainebill39 1 year ago
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why can't the homos have the
legal union contract they
want but just not use the
word title that the man and
woman use to describe their
union?
wouldn't that be reasonable
and fair?
az101010 1 year ago
GOD is telling this Nation to........................... REPENT.................Time is running out, on judgment day there will be no excuses, no more mercy, and no more forgiveness of sin.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 do we give a fuck?
therealgirljpunk 1 year ago
@therealgirljpunk: Are you speaking for yourself? then take out we. Your way of thinking/attitude is similar to the Judge that made this ruling. The Judge stolen the votes of the people that were in favor of Prop 8.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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@sprinkle888
"The Judge stolen the votes of the people that were in favor of Prop 8."
The US constitution, Amendment 14 section1:
NO state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the PRIVILEGES or immunities of citizens of the United States; no shall any State DEPRIVE any person of life, LIBERTY . . .
Just because the majority of people vote for something does not make it constitutional.
MisterGibs 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 the only thing that was stolen was the rights of gays and lesbians by prop h8
idaman12345 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 You lose fucker HAHAHA!!!
newguyout 1 year ago
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sprinkle888 1 year ago
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sprinkle888 1 year ago
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@sprinkle888 That is what Satan want you to believe and all his other followers, you see our victory the Saints is at the end when all this is over. The word of God tells the Saints that we win and we believe God.
1 John 5:4 - For every child of God defeats this evil world by trusting Christ to give the victory.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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@newguyout Can you give me the scripture where it says that in the end Satan wins, are even the wicked sinners with unrepentant sin wins, god haters, and the unsaved wins, are commandment breakers
..............No because its not written in God's Holy word.................So you can laugh now, but in the end their will be weeping and gnashing of teeth according to the Holy scriptures: Luke 13:28
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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The Great White Throne Judge is all the commandment breakers, unbelievers, and God haters will be judged:
Revelation chapter 20 verses 11 to 15: And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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The Homosexuals got together and had a meeting 23 years ago and decided to take over by moving into high positions to change laws, meet our sons and daughters in closed location to recruit them and if the Churches do not accept them, their plans are to take over the Church; Well they have did just that. Saints get ready for Jesus Christ is soon come, its almost over.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
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Satan is running this world system along with his evil demons.
Ephesians 6:14 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked spirits in the heavenly realms.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
The Bible is a BOOK! And nothing more.
rockyrigby 1 year ago
:DDD Looking forward to a somewhat decent USA. :P
BleedingNeedles 1 year ago
This is going to bring the "Wrath of God" upon America you cannot break God's commandments and get away with it.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
@sprinkle888 God is a myth and I am not going to let you or anyone else impose this rediculous garbage on me.
yogabear1962 1 year ago
@yogabear1962 There's a famous artist(I can't remember his name)who is as we speak dying from being ravaged from the most painful kind of cancer known to man. If he moves at all he scream in pain.
He spent his entire life railing against God as being a joke & a myth. Now he says "I'm being punished for mocking God".........Seems EVERYONE believes sooner or later. Hope you don't meet the same fate fatty.
flyboymd82 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 LOL god is a myth and you cant prove otherwise and you arnt going to make me conform to the rules in a ferry tale.
yogabear1962 1 year ago
@yogabear1962 No problem. I know I can't make you conform but someone else can!! Guess you'll be screaming in agony as well before heading off to a real warm place for EVER!
It amazes me that fools like you can look at our solar system, the earth, all animal like forms & the intricate details of nature & animals, the fact that earth would be inhabitable if just 50 miles further or closer to the sun, oxygen levels to sustain life & think ........."oh its all just coincidence"...Worship Gov't!
flyboymd82 1 year ago 3
@flyboymd82 UNinhabitable that is(before you can attack a mistake & call me an "Ignorant, racist, trailer park redneck, sister fucking retard" like all the other moron libnuts do)LOL!
flyboymd82 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 Well at least in this answer you try to use some science, nice try. But what sort of plan is it that this god has which allows for such ambiguity that we don’t know which god to worship. If there were one god there would be one who perhaps created man. But there aren’t, there are MANY gods therefore the only logical conclusion is that the concept of god was created by man. And therefore you have no basis to deny two consenting adults to be married.
yogabear1962 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 Brilliant so what about all the christians who have praied all their lives and are devoted to god that are suffering the same fate? Seems very convenient to give god credit for the same thing you cant explain in others. If you want to turn your back on science and reason thats fine but I will NOT be subject to your will which is all you have. god is not on your side because he doesnt exist.
yogabear1962 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 Oh and calling me names dosnt hurt my feelings so dont waist your character count on that. And as for everyone believing that is not true. There are countless peole who have died without the slightest clue of the existance of your ferry tale god. Stick to facts please - oh thats right you dont have any so you just say stuff to take up space. LOL
yogabear1962 1 year ago
@yogabear1962 "Don't waist your character count"?? LMAO! Did you mean "waste"? by any chance? "Waist" is where your belt goes!
To think I thought I might be talking to a halfway intelligent being!! I should have known better! LOL!
flyboymd82 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 Yea you win the spelling bee but making such a big issue out of that simple mistake on my part continues to prove my point that those on your side of this cannot actually come up with any real reasons to prevent gay marriage. Glad you are amused but if you are serious you will actually say something of substance. There are no studies that show that gay parents are bad and that gay marriage hurts straight folks who want to or who are married. Stick to the point
yogabear1962 1 year ago
Honestly, the Roberts Court is more than likely to rule against Gay Marriage. Of course the key comes down to Kennedy. However, I'm curious on how liberals think they'll be able to force the majority of the states to even obey the Supreme Court ruling if it's against conventional marriage. It took the US over a century to end de jure segregation (even though it exists in a de facto state). Finally, I'm going to laugh if conservatives pass a US Constitutional amendment banning Gay Marriage.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
In March Roberts rejected to review the Washington DC same-sex law. I strongly agree with the libertarian values of Anthony Kennedy and Ron Paul. Kennedy and Paul proved to be on the right side of history on all major big strategic questions of our time. Ron Paul continues to surprise anti-libertarian big government conservatives like yourself. we need less big government, less regulation and more liberty.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge LOL! I'm a paleoconservative/libertarian, so I'm confused on what you're basing this label on? I'm merely here on this video clip to debate the issue in a cordial manner.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
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indielounge 1 year ago
@rtgoodson - this is a case of liberty vs. government interference. This is a classic example where the federal constitution has a key role. The founding fathers created the constitution on legal PRINCIPLES, including liberty from government interference, due process and equality before the law. It's liberty or fascism or communism. I choose liberty. Others seem to choose Iran and Sharia Law. This is a big, big issue, an historic choice between liberty and the dark ages.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge Really? Due process and equality before the law never emerged until the 14th amendment. You argue freedom and liberty, yet you're asking the government to force people into accepting your views. As a private business owner, should I be allowed to discriminate against people based on my personal views? As a libertarian, the answer is affirmative. Sexual orientation is a personal choice and equating it to racism, gender, or disability discrimination is a laughable.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
Due process was there from the very start- it was part of the English common law. The Declaration of Independence lists the lack of jury trials as a complaint. This is a key example of due process. Due process is a very old and traditional fundamental principle. As a libertarian, I think the Constitution protects the citizens against the state. If a businessman does not want to enter into a contract, the government has no business to intervene.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge The Declaration of Independence has zero legal authority. Thanks for playing. I have a law degree. I don't need a history class in legal authority. The Constitution was originally designed as check against the federal government. Marriage regulation is a power granted to the states. Liberals have perverted the original constitution. LGBT rights are a liberal invention to justify a special class for people based on their behavior.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
Does the 14th Amendment not have 'any legal authority'? The common law certainy always was and still is part of the legal sytstem. I only mentioned the Declaration of Independence to demonstrate that the founding fathers wanted to STRENGTHEN and not WEAKEN due process and the rule of law. I would highly recommend to look at the arguments of David Boies, a solid conservative and highly regarded expert on constitutional law. I used to be against gay marriage years ago but I was wrong.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge Of course the 14th Amendment has legal authority in today's society. However, like all laws, its meaning is open to personal review, and, in the end, legal enforcement. Liberals want you to believe that homosexuals are a protected class in society and that their personal behavior is equal to the discrimination based upon race, gender, or disability. In reality, the two are essentially different. In the end, legal opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
lol I am glad we agree on something after all. I respect your view and I know where you are coming from. However, having a better understanding of the dangers of big government (massive budget deficits, high taxes, more regulation), the idea of individual liberty is of the highest importance. If the state gets involved in the marriage lic business, the state cannot turn it's back on tax-paying, law-obeying citizens. This is not Iran!!
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge I have to get some sleep. Thanks for the debate.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
I gotta catch some sleep, too. Very much enjoyed the debate and the civil and intelligent level of the debate. All the best.
indielounge 1 year ago
@rtgoodson how can one "pervert" all man is created equal?
thats what gays and lesbians want, equality
idaman12345 1 year ago
@rtgoodson As someone who is also a libertarian I believe that the government should get out of the marriage business altogether. Marriage should be a private matter between two consenting adults no matter the gender of each partner. Just as a couple doesn't need a license to move in together, a couple shouldn't need government permission to enter into what is essentially a contract. You call yourself a libertarian but support using the vote to take away the liberty of someone else.
moondogjack1978 1 year ago
@moondogjack1978 Should an adult be free to consent to be murdered or assaulted? Laws are a reflection of our society and the rules that we choose to live by. A state has a vested interest in promoting marriage, and, the society at large has a right to determine what "marriage" means. They have the same right to determine what civil or criminal laws to pass and follow.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
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@rtgoodson Sexual orientation is a personal choice
a well known lie spread by conservatives
idaman12345 1 year ago
@indielounge Also, why are you bringing Sharia Law into this? This court case doesn't bother me in the least. The 9th Circuit has zero legal authority over me in the 11th Circuit, and, if the Supreme Court doesn't want to hear this case, then it'll never be an issue in this area of the country. Honestly, do you really think that the Southern Circuit Judges are going to uphold Gay Marriage? LOL! Finally, the 9th Circuit is overturned roughly 75% of the time.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
I think it is dangerous when sects and out of state churches intervene in the democratic process. Judges believe in the rule of law. Judges will uphold the law. That doesn't mean that a judge who disagrees with a particular view will not voice this in his community or his family. I am conservative myself and I went to a church school, I was not abused, I received an outstanding education. However, the moral teachings of the church are separate from civil law.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge The "moral teachings of the church" are a direct reflection of our culture and laws. The foundation of our political and legal system is based upon the Judeo-Christian teachings.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
You said in an earlier post that you were agnostic. Yes, our culture is based on Judea-Christian teachings. The reason why the west outperformed dictatorships like Cuba, Iran and Communism is because we believe in freedom, liberty and private business and NOT in big government. Only a small percentage of the population are gay. If your best friend told you he was gay would it turn you gay? of course not. lol. gays who marry actually re-affirm conservative values (monogamy).
indielounge 1 year ago
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@rtgoodson
"our political and legal system is based upon the Judeo-Christian teachings. "
That is BS. The constitution never mentions Jesus, Christianity, or Judaism. It only mentions religion to say that we have the right to it and that government is not to get involved.
Also, the Bible does not endorse democracy.
John Winthrip, governor of the Mass. Bay Colony said, ""If we should change from a mixed aristocracy to mere democracy, first we should have no warrant in scripture for it..."
MisterGibs 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
All I am saying is that liberty is the most important principle of our Constitution. The role of government should be limited. States and the federal government should stay out of the marriage lic business altogether. The whole point of the Constitution is to protect us from excessive government and arbitrary laws. We should encourage private enterprise and business and not go down the slippery slope of big government. California's business heartland strongly opposed prop 8.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge Yet, the majority of California's voters approved Prop. 8. The state has a vested interest in promoting heterosexual marriage for the continuation of the state. Honestly, marriage licenses are only around a century in age, but, without a civil contract, property and estate interests are left to flood the courts in litigation. It became a matter of judicial interest to promote personal unions.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson seeing as that last part wont happen, i wouldn't hold your breath
conservatism is dying thanks to bush
idaman12345 1 year ago
@rtgoodson Well the country is just about evenly devided concerning abortion and yet no one has lynched any of the court members.
yogabear1962 1 year ago
@rtgoodson If Republicans never had the guts to ban gay marriage while Bush was in office (at a time when those shits were cocky as shit) then they won't have the balls to do it now.
Republicans are like a stalker....... rejection only makes them crazier. LOL!
newguyout 1 year ago
Ugh...So many posts to respond to.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@krystosdobs Later. Take all the marxist, socialist, progressive liberals with you, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@thenotsosilentmind So, I'm guessing that you would support polygamy, incest, et cetera. Should these people be given special rights status? As such, my query to you is why should we even allow marriage in the first place since we're destroying the foundational meaning of marriage?
rtgoodson 1 year ago
Let the Gay Marriage Bashing begin (queue music)...
rtgoodson 1 year ago
This interviewer is a raging idiot.
badleroybrown8 1 year ago
It is amazing how many people think they know what is right for everyone else. The Bible and their screwed up god that they put in their own image now think they can put on the world their views. Guess what it is dying...you are losing because people are waking up, slowly but indeed stupid people are being drowned out by enlightened people...Freedom means my rights are sovereign and I own them!!!
SereneInvestor 1 year ago
This is a historic victory for all Californians! The evidence clearly showed that Mormons and other out-of-state pressure groups lied to voters and there is no legitimate government interest to justify the refusal of a CIVIL MARRIAGE license. The civilised western world can be proud that we don't believe in Sharia (Muslim) law, we believe in eqaulity before the law and the rule of law. Californians and the entire nation can be proud of this historic victory for good over evil.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge Well, until you piss off the Conservative States and they come together to pass a Defense of Marriage Amendment to the Constitution, or until the Roberts Court overturn's this ban. (Queue Music)...Next up: Polygamy!
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
I don't think the government should be involved in regulating marriage. This is a CIVIL LAW issue. I don't have a comment on your religious views. The Republican governor of California, the judge (nominated by Reagan), the top Conservative constitutional lawyer who secured Bush (jr) the presidency are surely no lefties. All my conservative friends agree that Prop 8 serves no legitimate government interest. In fact, gay marriage is a victory and affirmation of traditional marriage.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge My views on religion? I'm agnostic. Where have I mentioned religion in any of these posts? My entire point with these posts is that your sexual orientation is a behavioral choice that is partially influenced by your environment during the developmental years. A behavioral choice isn't the same as being born with a certain color, gender, or disability. More liberal propaganda.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@indielounge Why are you even bringing Bush into this conversation? He won legally won the election, and the entire debate was nothing but a democratic sideshow to press their agenda. Also, I'm going to go out on a limb, because I'm assuming he's not doing this pro-bono, and state that any lawyer, no matter his personal views, will work on any case if the money is there.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
Roberts may think strategically and opt not to hear the case because the facts in Perry v Schwarzenegger are unique and may well be limited to Prop 8 in California. The trial heavily relied on factual evidence. The facts in California strongly support opponents of Prop 8. The ban on interracial marriage served no legitimate government interest. Equally, the ban on same-sex marriage serves no legitimate gov interest. Civil law and church law are separate, California is not Iran.
indielounge 1 year ago
@indielounge You're comparing your ethnic color to a deviant sexual behavior. You can control your behavior, but you can't control your race. Also, we all know that the Roberts Court isn't going to turn down this case when it comes up on appeal (same goes for the Osama ObamaCare Law). The state has a vested interest in promoting traditional marriage over deviant marriage. What's next? Shall we grant special rights to consenting adults interested in polygamy or incest?
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@indielounge Finally, how do you think the federal government is going to enforce gay marriage in traditionally conservative states? It took over a century to end de jure segregation, but I still laugh at that notion considering de facto segregation exists today. I'll find it hilarious when the conservatives come together and pass a Defense of Marriage Amendment to the US Constitution limiting it to Man and Woman. .
rtgoodson 1 year ago
If we went by what the majority wanted then women would never had been given the right to vote and Rosa Parks would have been forced to sit in the back of the bus by law.
ginb1289 1 year ago
@thenotsosilentmind You're DEAD ASS WRONG! California Supreme court ruled prop 8 CONSTITUTIONAL!
It shouldn't even be in the Federal Courts anyway. Marriage isn't even mentioned in the Constitution & the Constitution says "Any rights herein not granted to the Federal Gov't are States rights & the peoples rights". The Feds have NO BUSSINESS in this issue.
How does this 'steal our rights'? Because 7 Million people voted YES on prop 8 & one Gay man overturned them. Why bother even voting?
flyboymd82 1 year ago
Dont even bother trying to convince these confused human beings that its wrong. There is non so blind as those who will not see.
pntdblack 1 year ago
Marriage is ordained by GOD and is between a MAN and WOMAN. It has always been that way. My children will know that being GAY is a sin; not to mention it is against Natural Law. God loves ALL people, but he does not love ALL the sins we do. Gay marriage is WRONG. I don’t care anymore about being politically correct. This country is in for a HUGE surprise.
snuffokk 1 year ago
@snuffokk
Sometimes I masturbate to thoughts of god
rocky906 1 year ago
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ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!
1luv408 1 year ago
YAY!!! :D I hope it lasts!! Marriage is a funny little human ritual anyways, so, everyone has the right to spend thousands of dollars on a cooky, tasty and velvety wedding cake :D
mauranogueira 1 year ago
GAY REASONING :
1) "When two consenting adults love each other and want to be married, they should have that right"
2) " Conservatives who consider our lifestyle repugnant have no business deciding whether two consenting adults should be allowed to marry. That's just hate."
Do YOU agree wth these statements?..YES or NO?
BUT GAYS ARE HYPOCRITES because even THEY would not allow two consenting men if FATHER & SON to marry because even GAYS would see it as repugnant.
Get my drift?
AmericanKnowItAll3 1 year ago
The people who are against gay marriage are the same people who just want gays to go away,period. They think that if that were to happen then all of a sudden the world would become a paradise.
All we want is equality under the law and to be left alone.
ginb1289 1 year ago
I agree in the judge's ruling. All Humans should be given the freedom to do as they wish in their life. It is in the constitution and freedom is the American way.
However, this will not change the behavior of the gay community. They will continue their lifestyle of promiscuity, alcoholism, & clubbing.
Believe in god or not, but gay people will just have to accept the fact that the human race is created to endorse marriage between a Man & Woman. And nothing will ever compensate for that.
MrJay429 1 year ago
@MrJay429
because heterosexuals are never promiscuous, alcoholics or go clubbing? Absurd
actartie 1 year ago
@actartie Why feel the need to attack heterosexuals in this? I have not made a comparison between heterosexuals & Gay's. I am making a observation of the Gay culture as it is.
You may call it stereotyping, but before you do that, perhaps you should first go walk down any street hosting a gay pride festival, in the middle of the day, and see if it is "child friendly". I support freedom , and it is unfair one group of people be singled out, however, the gay culture needs a lot to be desired for.
MrJay429 1 year ago
@MrJay429 Well, my query is simply this: What's next with marriage? Are we going to allow Polygamy, Incest, et cetera to be considered for legal marriage? The funny thing is that the Roberts Court will likely overturn this ruling when it reaches the Supreme Court, and, even if they don't, there is still the issue of getting the various states to uphold the ruling allowing Gay "Marriage." Also, I would find it hilarious if Conservative States passed a Marriage Amendment to the US Constitution.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson I agree with freedom for all. However,your argument bears some truth in it. What is next?
My belief is marriage should only be reserved for a Man & Woman, under holy matrimony, under god. But that gay people be given the right, or freedom, to be ACKNOWLEDGED as a couple under a civil partnership, in other words, they can get married, but outside church.
What they are seeking here is to be legally acknowledged as a gay couple. IMO, two adults should be given the freedom to do that.
MrJay429 1 year ago
@MrJay429 Well, my query is why should we change the definition of marriage to accomodate someone's behavior? Gay/lesbians would like for people to believe that their lifestyle isn't a choice, but that it's a genetic defect starting from birth. However, no scientific proof exists to essentially state that homosexuality isn't a behavioral defect resulting from a person's environment, et cetera. Using your logic, any group can claim special rights under the law.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
"why should we change the definition of marriage?"
The definition already been changed. PAST TENSE.
Marriage used to be the transferring of property (woman) from one man to another, father to groom. Women couldn't vote, own property, could be beaten, etc. Marriage was defined so that women had to obey men.
Then straights decided that was wrong and changed the definition.
Now, civil marriage is a legally binding contract between two legally autonomous individuals.
MisterGibs 1 year ago
@MisterGibs Well, the discussion for civil marriage is open for debate. My query simply involves around where we draw the line on this issue? What's to stop another group from asserting that they have a legal right to marry, and where does it end? Should we reverse our opinions concerning polygamy? This is a slippery slope.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson
"Well, the discussion for civil marriage is open for debate"
Civil marriage is the only thing being debated.
"What's to stop another group from asserting that they have a legal right to marry"
You do realize the the same arguments were used to keep women from voting?
"If we let women vote, what is to stop children from voting?"
MisterGibs 1 year ago
@rtgoodson what exactly is wrong with polygamy?
yogabear1962 1 year ago
@MrJay429 Well, you can argue for the right to a civil union, but what's to stop a person engaged in polygamy or incest from asserting the same argument under the law? The query boils down to a debate with a slippery slope argument concerning a behavior issue instead of an issue resulting from birth or an accident.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@MrJay429 Ive been to many gay pride events with my children what are you talking about?
yogabear1962 1 year ago
This is only the beginning. This will probably go all the way to the Supreme Court, so the fight still rages on! A win at the final federal level will be an amazing precedent and a huge step to ensure equality for all just like the US Constitution demands. Seperation of church and state! Keep on fighting everyone!! A great victory today!
actartie 1 year ago 4
@actartie LOL! Until you enrage the Conservative base in this country, and they come together to pass a Defense of Marriage Amendment to the US Constitution. Also, there is the simple issue of the Federal Government enforcing this issue to the states, especially the Bible Belt (good luck with that), if the decision is upheld once it reaches the Supreme Court.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson ha! I didn't say it was going to be easy, but I'll take victories one at a time and deal with whatever comes in the way accordingly. I don't ever expect anything like this to be handed to me. I'm not that naive.
actartie 1 year ago
@actartie Technically, I'm a conservative and against gay marriage, however, I can still carry on a cordial debate concerning the issue. Honestly, I don't see how the judge came up with his ruling. Should we allow people to practice polygamy, incest, et cetera, and, if so, then why should we even allow marriage to occur since the foundational meaning no longer exists? The technical defense is that the act occurs among consenting adults, but should we extend those rights to everyone?
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson I understand your view completely. In fact, I will agree. If I'm going to say marriage equality for all consenting adults, then it should stand for all. I think it's the whole institution of marriage that's faulty. I will take this as a victory for equal rights; however, it doesn't address the gender roles, sexism, classism that the institution of marriage itself perpetuates. So it in no way solves a lot, but I think it does show a step in the right direction
actartie 1 year ago
Another Judicail activist judge. These leftists are going to start a civil war in this Country. prop 8 was declared Constitutional by the Calif Supreme Court & this asshole just stole the votes of 7 Million people. Why bother fucking voting in this Country when an Activist Judge can just steal it?
We are losing our Country bit by bit. Its time for a revolution. These radical leftists are stealing our rights & our Country & turning it into a decadant shithole.
The Judge is gay himself
flyboymd82 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 Listen, if you Anti-American bigots can't handle the TRUE values of the American justice system, then move to a more welcoming place in which the majority can freely take away the basic and equal rights of the minority. I heard Iran is nice this time of year... You non-muslim bigots should flourish there. And it would leave this Great land to the REAL Americans, who actually believe in the freedom and equality that our ancestors fought for.
Peace out haters!
biggtk 1 year ago
@biggtk You're such a moron you're not even worth arguing with. When the Gov't goes against the will of the people, its called tyranny you idiot!
You gays are the fucking bigots & the will of the majority is how this Country works. Its in our Constitution. Perhaps its YOU who needs to move to a Communist Country where the few control the masses agaist their will?
Get a brain retards.
flyboymd82 1 year ago 3
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@flyboymd82
You had better watch out flyboymd82.. we are coming for your children next... and there is nothing you can do about it...
rocky906 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 "When the Gov't goes against the will of the people, its called tyranny you idiot"
No. When the majority is making private life decisions for the minority through the legal system, THAT is tyranny.
biggtk 1 year ago
@biggtk Like Gov't run healthcare that all you liberal Democrats FORCED upon an unwilling citizenry?? LMAO!
Thank you for admitting you're all tyrants!
flyboymd82 1 year ago 3
@flyboymd82 It's the equivalent of the law letting 13 people vote on whether eating meat should be banned; with 11 of the people in the group being Anti-meat eating vegans, and the other 2 people being meat eaters. What you eat is your business, as long as you're not infringing on another person's rights. In the same way, the 1 adult partner that someone chooses to marry is private, and should not be up to other people to dictate.
biggtk 1 year ago
@biggtk You're wrong. Just because you like something doesn't make it a "right". A society has the RIGHT to make societal standards for itself & people do not want gays to marry. Why can't you be happy with civil unions? Marriage is in the eye of the Church.
This really has nothing to do with gays. Its a way to destroy the family in a society. Ever read Karl Marx's rantings about the need to destroy the family unit so communism can work properly? Take a look at it.
flyboymd82 1 year ago 3
@flyboymd82 "Just because you like something doesn't make it a "right""
I never said anything about liking it or not. Nor did I say if it was 'right' or not. But I do love the idea of gays being allowed to cement their relationships in legal marriage, and I do believe it is right to partake in gay marriage if you're in a relationship with someone of the same sex.
biggtk 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 "A society has the RIGHT to make societal standards for itself "
For PUBLIC issues, not private issues or rights. Timmy and Tom's marriage has nothing to do with YOU, or anyone else. It is their right, as it is your right to marry one person of either opposite or same sex as well. How would you feel if the courts just allowed ONLY homosexuals a right to vote on whether straight people should have the right to get married?
biggtk 1 year ago
@biggtk Uhh, we already went thru this! Then why were you for Gov't controled healthcare? Anti-smoking laws? Laws dictating what I can eat?
You're a hypocrite!
flyboymd82 1 year ago 3
@flyboymd82 "Then why were you for Gov't controled healthcare?"
You speak as if you know me, when you don't. And I've never been for government controlled healthcare, and I don't remember saying that I was.
"Anti-smoking laws"
Because no one should be able to have the right to make other people sick through second hand smoke, in public places. That infringes on other people's civil rights.
"Laws dictating what I can eat"
What laws were these?
biggtk 1 year ago
@biggtk Wow, you'd be the first liberal to say they weren't for free healthcare, but you ALREADY said you think its a great thing??
Watching two men hold hands & kissing in public makes ME sick! So I think I'll file a lawsuit for this Judge infringing on my civil rights! Which "civil right" says I have the right not to get sick? LOL!
Like bloomberg making transfats illegal in New York City & another law just passed dictating salt content of food in NYC.......
flyboymd82 1 year ago 3
@flyboymd82 I would like to insert a simple thought pattern into this debate. Proponents of Gay Marriage would argue that it's an essential right to marry someone and that their civil rights are being infringed. However, nothing in the US Constitution grants the right to marry, and, the key distinction to this debate, is that every prior issue of equal rights comes about with things out of a person's control: race, disability, et cetera. However, nothing stipulates that "behavior" is a right.
rtgoodson 1 year ago
@rtgoodson "he key distinction to this debate, is that every prior issue of equal rights comes about with things out of a person's control: race, disability, et cetera. However, nothing stipulates that "behavior" is a right."
If that's the case, then how did we get freedom of religion? Is religion not a choice? Is there not a majority in American that views non-christian religions as wrong? If so, then why was the religious minority's right to not be christians protected in the constitution?
biggtk 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 " but you ALREADY said you think its a great thing"
In a perfect society free healthcare would be a great thing. However in the real world, doctors need compensation (and rightfully so), and I want to give it to them. But not at the price of health insurance taking away massive parts of people's income. And I'm not a liberal, I'm a moderate.
biggtk 1 year ago
@flyboymd82
"Like bloomberg making transfats illegal in New York City"
So, your position is that the government should protect our right to slowly poison yourselves but, not our right to marry the parents of our children.
Interesting.
MisterGibs 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 "Watching two men hold hands & kissing in public makes ME sick! So I think I'll file a lawsuit for this Judge infringing on my civil rights!"
Umm sweetie, it doesn't make you sick because there is a physical mass of toxic air or illness infesting you, but because you're mentally weak. It's YOUR problem if you don't want to see two guys kiss. Simply turn your head around and don't look.
biggtk 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 "Which "civil right" says I have the right not to get sick? LOL!"
You have the right not be contaminated or physically harmed by someone else's actions. However, men kissing is not proven to physically harm or contaminate people's health, so you wouldn't have a case. It's your own PSYCHE that is causing you discomfort, not the actions of two men kissing. Nice try though. It was cute.
biggtk 1 year ago
@flyboymd82 "Why can't you be happy with civil unions"
Because for 1, we want marriage, not civil unions. And 2, it would undermine the purpose of civil unions for those who actually don't want to get married, but have some of the same benefits (and less of the consequences that come with divorce) as marriage.
biggtk 1 year ago
@biggtk No. Its because you want to shove it in the faces of religious people who find your deathstyles repulsive & an abomination.
NO OTHER REASON AT ALL!!
flyboymd82 1 year ago 2
@flyboymd82
"ts because you want to shove it in the faces of religious people...NO OTHER REASON AT ALL!!"
Or could it be that gays want the same legal protections for themselves, their families, and their spouses that everybody else enjoys?
MisterGibs 1 year ago
@MisterGibs They already have them. Its called Civil unions. You even admitted earlier that gay marriage & civil unions provide the same legal protections.
Nice try.
flyboymd82 1 year ago 2