Noam Chomsky at the United Nations 6/5/06 Part 7

[Leonhardst]

No matter where you stand, what country you are or what media source(s) you ascribe to that either vilify, grudgingly welcome or embrace Chomsky's views, we must all accept here is a man of honesty.

not to crack the pretentious whip: "Aye Sir to be honest is to be one man plucked out of ten thousand."

[WastedTourist]

I wonder where the hell Chomsky finds all the time to learn all this History and Politics, when he's a full time Linguistics professor!

[jacksawild]

Socialism is so evil. Who in their right mind would want to give control to the masses, protect them, care for them and abolish inequality? Boo to the hippy do-gooders who want to take the power away from the profit generating machinery of our civilised societies and give it to the ordinary people. Down with control by consensus, we can't trust people who don't have any money or are not pleasing to look at. Our leaders are godlike and deserve our absolute obedience.

/sarcasm

[DaddaOgg]

@jacksawild You had me until that last sentence.. ^^

[luwala23]

Nonsense paragraph long comments.

[nedlund]

this man is a champion of the world ldeas

[immanent]

absolute power corrupts absolutely. One the oldest rule of thumb around, but generally ignored.

The same principle of the human condition that applies to the U.N. applies to the Federal Government, namely, that when you send billions of taxpayer dollars to entity that makes law for such a wide swath of people, you inevitably invite political and economic opportunists.

Such institutions are as idealistic as the socialist agendas they promote, and never work in practice, BECAUSE WE'RE HUMAN

[misterpatrickstar]

The concept of having a state government is psychological dysfunction. Basically a restraining mechanism because humans are currently in the vast majority unhealthy psychologically. With lack of morality as a result of blocked psychological and emotional growth humans create artificial constraints to maintain order. One day when humans learn to develop and grow up emotionally,mentally,psycholog­ically and spiritually then state government will automatically disappear. Morality would be the norm.

[bootleg42]

Immanent...I don't get it..."the socialist agendas they promote"???

I WISH. Shit, I'd love it if these institutions were socialist. I wouldn't even be active in activism if it was socialist. You have no clue or you're a right-wing free-market libertarian.

[immanent]

The Global Poverty Act that Barack Obama co-sponsored institutes the objectives of the U.N. Millenium Summit, which will require the United States contribute 0.7% GDP, or $849 billion over the next 13 years. I can't afford to send my money to third world corrupt governments. If you can, thats great, but don't make me.

[bootleg42]

So that act is socialist?????? LMAO.

Like I said, you have no clue what socialism is OR you're a right-wing free-market libertarian.

[immanent]

My definition is a system by which property and wealth are subject to redistribution by the community.

You're right that I believe in freedom above all else.

LMAO? Whats not socialist about taxing and inflating the U.S. currency, injurious to the poor/middle class at the behest of other poor across the world, who usually don't get the aid anyway?

Whats funny here? We have 40 mil at or near poverty in the U.S. Why are we "helping" others?

[bootleg42]

Socialism comes from below and it comes from people's movements. If you think that just because the government spends money on things it's socialist, you're lost and paranoid. Look up Catalonia, Spain 1936 for an example of socialism.

And you mention the 40 million at near poverty here. Fine, lets start social programs to help them by taxing the shit out of the mid-upper-middle class and the upper class.

[darkmiles22]

@bootleg42 I did look up Catalonia 1936, and I think you converted me from socialized capitalism. Thank you!

Worker ownership and democratic management of cooperatives > Investor ownership and capital management of corporations

Worker's co-ops appear to combine the efficiency of capitalism with more equitable distribution of profits! And markets bolster worker solidarity instead of undermining it! Plus, the models are compatible, allowing a nonviolent transition! To implementation! = )

[Psycarne]

US policies have played a large part in keeping those third world countries poor.

Poor nations, means low wages, which means high profit. Why do you think that first world nations are so rich? Who do you think produces those billions?

First world nations pursue policies that keep the rest of the world poor and keep thier markets open to investment. This means thier industry can recieve massive profits from exploiting the labour and resources of those nations.

That is not socialism.

[Psycarne]

At one point Nike were paying the majority of thier workers in Indonesia about 4% of the value of the products they were producing.

The question is not 'why should the middle classes/rich be taxed to pay for the poor', but 'why should the rich profit from the work of the poor?'

The rich in all class systems are rich due to the wealth created by those labour class.

Paying people the full value of what they produce would actually be a major step TOWARDS socialism.

[immanent]

U.S. policies? Maybe U.N., World Bank, IMF, policies, yes. Often labeled neo-liberal trade, while it is recognized as capitalistic, is not free market. At least part of the problem is that poor countries have corrupt governments that are supported by wealthy international interests, and are loaned exorbitant amounts of money, much of which is subsequently stolen or wasted. Many of those countries do not allow land ownership so free market entrepreneurs can't really get off the ground.

[immanent]

In most cases the poor aren't poor because they are exploited. They are poor because governments distort markets and governments steal from the people via inflation. With stable money and truly free markets, anyone who even does a half-assed job can get by with plenty to spare. Middle class grows and many become prosperous.

Lawyers, doctors and CEO's aren't rich because they exploit. They are rich because they are paid according to skill and market value.

[darkmiles22]

@immanent Markets exploit the poor by nature; the playing field is rigged to disproportionately reward the rich beyond their value to society. The rich aristocracy buys votes through campaign contributions and media buyout by advertisers. Artificial demand for jobs (glut of labor) is constantly manufactured through wars, IMF requirements, trade policy, and various intimidation methods. Different local taxes produce a regressive race to the bottom to attract business, and profits are stolen.

[Angelarms00]

@darkmiles22

Corruption exsists where the power is greatest in any model.

Its show in economics, politics, you name it. Its all part of a game. Whether its greed or wrath.... its all a bunch of BULLSHIT. Brainless faks!

[BigHornCanyon]

How foolish to suppose Americans are too uneducated to know that Elitism and Socialism are diametrically opposed to one another. I am surprised the liberal pundits aren't grabbing at this one. As a liberal myself I'd be pointing this contradiction out during the discussions. McCain indeed is erratic and inconsistent in his approach to convincing the world his views are sound and healthy.

[BigHornCanyon]

You recall in the beginning of McCain's campaigning, the McCain rhetoric was all about painting Obama an "Elitist, out of touch with needs of the working class".

Then we got a wet flip flop. Now McCain's rhetoric is all about painting Obama as a "Socialist"

[harpoonflyby]

Obama and McCain are both socialists, of the Leninist type. Nobody is a "socialist" of the 1936 Catelonia type, so there's not much point using the word that way in modern debate. We need words to have practical meaning. Otherwise call it classical socialism or Marxism, to keep us from ejaculating all over ourselves.

[djboony]

hahaha

[buddhagem]

Excellent answers. I wish more Americans understood what the UN was. There's so much anti-UN hysteria in this country, the whole black helicopter crowd, that it's hard to even talk to people about the UN.

[bootleg42]

Most of them are just right-wing free-market libertarians...aka spoiled middle class suburban white kids.

It's impossible to talk to them. Anything they don't like is a "conspiracy" and you can't logically speak to them.