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From: Gabba02
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  • Of course Gundula is wonderful, but so is Renee

  • If all Renee did was sing the Last Four Songs I think everyone else would just have to stay seated. She to me - is the best!

  • this song is out of reality,most beautiful song ever...perfect

  • renee is fantastic... but i must say my taste is for the same by jessie norman.

  • No you are not a fool and the whole world is no fool either. Great Singing, phrasing sound and German. Brava Renee.

  • She was brave, I can feel she was tired.

  • @FabioCostaMusic shut up! haha if she's tired and doing this, I wonder what she would sound like when not tired. A tired person couldn't ever pull this off.

  • She is amazing!

    Su voz e interpretación merecen sólo elogio y admiración.

  • How dare anyone compare any singer to that loathsome old Nazi hag, Schwarzkopf? Renee's Strauss readings are her own.

  • Horrible unbalanced performance.

  • Her tongue is so pulled back and her voice is so overdarkened that she cannot stay in pitch. In fact, I don' think that she knows what the pitches are. She really cannot sing Strauss at all because of so many vocal problems. The world thinks she is the greatest living Stauss soprano, but just listen to Sena Jurinac sing the The Four Last Songs, and you will hear what Renee should sound like. She is capable of it.

  • @Canbelto1 You should call her and offer her a voice lesson. Let us know how that works out for you.

  • Much as I love Renee Fleming, it is Elizabeth Schwarzkopf’s version of the Four Last Songs that truly captivates. One feels that she has perfectly realised Strauss’s intentions, and I urge all to follow her deeply felt and unforgettable recordings.

  • kiri te kanawa,j. norman etc. are sooo much better than renee fleming. it sounds not natural !!!!

  • aus welchsem grund gefällt das 18 leuten nicht? nur weil sie vielleicht einen anderen, persönlichen favoriten haben? deshalb ist diese variante auch wundervoll........ hochkarätig und wunderschön!

  • Tough song to sing. Renee gave it her best effort; Jessye Norman is one of the only ones to conquer it though.

  • Is that Natalia Gutman leading the cellos?

  • She is constantly out of breath. A bad thing when you sing these songs.

  • @Melomondo how do you work that out?

  • Usually I like what Fleming does with Strauss, but there are some crude moments in this performance

  • Who's that violinist???

  • @richardvergara The violinist is Kolja Blacher 

  • Gorgeous. I am also very fond of the Lucia Popp/MTT recording of these songs.

  • No one wrote for the soprano like Mr. Strauss. 

  • @flylooper  I believed he was married to one! That would do it.

  • Technically, Fleming and Swartzkopf's German is better because they are both fluent in the language where Te Kanawa is not. That is where it ends. Strauss is not easy to sing or play despite any interpretation being done. I guess is how one had/has heard it first that sets in the mind. For me, it will always be Te Kanawa because she was the first I heard. I like anyone who does Strauss to this caliber. Flemming is no exception. Brava, Renee!

  • firt violinist is a cutie

  • So much of this is so very subjective, but sometimes facts are facts, and it is no longer a matter of opinion. This is one of those times. I am not by any means a great fan of Renée Fleming BUT this is absolutely stunning singing. Stunning! And right here on youtube everybody has the possibilyit to make direct comparisons: Schwarzkopf, Steber, Price (Leontyne and Margaret) - noone sings this song better than this. Different perhaps, but not better.

  • It seems to mee Renee Fleming was not feeling very well on that day. She usually looks and sounds better.

  • gundula janowitz sings this lied with the most supreme legato and artistry. We all love Schwartzkopf, of course, but fleming lacks the sheer breadth and breath it takes to successfully pull off this very difficult piece.

  • @colorsofritual well she sounded fine to me Z:/ stop being so critical and just enjoy the music ;)

  • @colorsofritual We don't all like Schwartzkopf, one of the most overrated singers of all time. No I'm not a fan of that Nazi at all. Fleming's earlier renditions are better, lately she has gotten a little sloppy, but she still has beautiful moments.

  • Claudio Abbado, Renée Fleming, Richard Strauss... brilliant!

  • am too old, and too tired, to go look for the obvious negative comments on Flemings performance,

    But;

    would Abbado conduct her, if shed be that badf?

    just listen to her! Her depth is deep...she sings beautifully, or am i a fool?

  • She is kind of the junction between Kiri and..... herself! I've 'discovered' her very recently and I love her!! I'm not old as you ;-P

    Yet, Schwarzkopf's version is better. Schwarzkopf still rules over every soprani in Strauss's songs.

  • @jadran1959 I don't mean to offend, but i hate Abbado, always so academic, so uninspiring, so much un-fun. See the photos of any singer in his opera performances, no one is ever smiling, let alone having a ball of it! He'd put me to sleep if he didn't irritate me so. But we are all entitled to an opinion (our own is the best, ofc), so please don't be offended, knowing that i respect yours even if it doesn't tack up with mine. Just had to get this off my chest.

  • @jadran1959

    I love her dark/soft/deep voice. It seems to be adequate to music.

  • @jadran1959 You're no fool, but this conductor is Giulini!

  • @leavesyoubreathless

    Abbado 100%

  • @leavesyoubreathless No, he is Claudio Abbado!!

  • @jadran1959 One must ignore all these amateur critics who seem to have two litmus tests of greatest--both of them hideous women: Swartzkopf and Callas. One was a Nazi, the other was a twisted Greek from New York with a career shorter than a butterfly's. Seems that Fleming has become a punching bag for these opera queens. Most undeserved. I, for one, find Fleming, the young or mature one, glorious in all respects. Her Strauss interpretations are without peer.

  • @Pywacket2 I can't believe the nonsense I am reading. You listen to a Diva and squabble about trivia. Do none of you care about art ?

  • @jadran1959 you are no fool... all these souls who have blessed us with their readings from kiri, jessie, Gundula, Schwartzkopf, Birgit, and many others are part of an unfathomable tapestry of soul... there is no shame in revealing in the absolute truth of usic.

  • Surely it is the conductor,the eminent Claudio Abaddo, who decides on the pace of the performance rather than Renee,consequently some of the negative comments about Renee have a rather weak basis?

  • yes a i agree , i felt it was a bit too fast , and a bit like they wanted it over with , rather than taking the time to explore the shape of the music , and bring out the expression ,.

  • @leedshunk It is just the right speed sung beautifully by a beauty of great sweetness and loveliness. a vision of Paradise for the decent man, a mothers love for the orphan, a damsel to save for the Knight.

  • About 1.54-2.00 sounds like one of the phrases from the finale trio of Der Rosenkavalier...

  • Of course. It's Richard Strauss. ;-)

  • You are totally right! And I think it is wonderful, isn't it? It is Richard Strauss :-)

  • I find that these songs are much more layered with the vocal colorations that Nilsson's dramatic soprano gives to them. There are riches that a hocdramatische sopran delivers that the other ladies just miss entirely.

  • I like also Nilsson's recording very much. But did you hear Lisa della Casa? For me she is still the best (Wiener Philharmoniker, Böhm, 1953; see youtube)

  • 3tristan

    You are certainly not alone in admiring Della Casa as supreme in this music. Yes, I have heard her doing these songs, and I am growing into her beautiful interpretation. Somehow, the heroic voice works better than a lyric sopranao, but I certainly am a great admirer of Della Casa.

  • no offense to anyone, and not to give the wrong impression, cause i love renee fleming. i think she's one of the great soprano's, but i don't really like the performance of this song (biem schlafengehen). her low register hear is a bit... half ass-ed. heard her sing a lot better. if you wanna listen to this sung absolutely amazingly, type in "Jessye Norman - Biem Schlafengehen" . it is fukin mind-blowing. and its not fast, like this one. sorry if i've offended.

  • i agree completely. I dont like how she cuts off so sharp

  • To piratzrule: Many years ago, I asked about Jessye Norman's Strauss CD. The clerk (pre-Internet days) said if his house was burning he'd grab THIS CD and run. (The one with Jessye in profile wih an "afro".) I think I would do the same.

    I ADORE Renee Fleming. She really is wonderful. I bought her Vier Letze Lieder CD, but she was YOUNG. It was ok. I gave it to my daughter. Since, Renee's sang exquisite performances of this. Now, The JEWEL SONG - No one -even the great Moffo does it better!

  • I agree...i love Renee, her rendition of Depuis le Jour is off the charts, but in this instance, she's just singing this song, whereas Jessye feels it.

  • I have to agree with you!

  • It is Ms. Fleming's overly lush tone and sheer vocal power as well as the subtlety and pathos of her interepretation, that truly distinguishes her among contemporary Strauss Sopranos.

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  • The bulk of the critics panning Ms. Flemming's superlative performance here fall into two broad categories 1) spitefully envious dilletantes who resent her commerical success and 2) armchair congnoscenti whose only reference for this performance are old recordings of Flagstad and Schwartzkopf, both of which illustrated a panache and technical perfection which was extra-ordinary and unique and cannot therefore be held up as a universal standard by which to judge performances of this type.

  • Comment removed

  • I really can't wrap my head around the people that are critiquing Renee's performance...I really think she is an astonishingly immaculate singer, and have heard countless of my voice teachers talking about her flawless technique. I look to her videos for many of the songs I perform to help me in determining how to sculpt my performance...Thank God we have her, I personally think she is among the best, and will remain with them for generations

  • Renee and Jessye sings 4 last songs very similar... Nobody sings this beautiful better than they

  • Terrific solo from Kolja Blacher!

  • I heard Janet Baker sing this many years ago in Manchester, at the Free Trade Hall.

    This was perfection to me.

  • I hate her interpretation of this piece. I saw it live, and was sooo disappointed!

  • She does a much better job on the recording with Houston Symphony & Eschenbach. Have you heard Arleen Augér (with Vienna Philharmonic and André Previn)? Music is so personal - some really love Schwarzkopf for this one, but I confess that is not my favorite one.  Artist aside, this remains one of my all-time favorite compositions.

  • "3:14"-3:30" is where norman has ALL of them beat, those notes when norman sings them are just incredible, but I always will love about Fleeming is whatever she sings you can see it on her face it puts you in the mood for sure, but I could never understand how she got the tile of the AMerican Soprano as is Norman never existed.

  • i am amazed how this woman could go so far, because her singing is not good. Her voice is beautiful, is true., but she is always eating all endings...and make every song that i´ve heard from her not as beautiful as it should be. listen to their endings...

  • I think you're right - Fleming's voice is absolutely peachy but her technique seems flawed. Parts of this performance jar on the ear. I don't know what happened around 1:8, for example....

  • Sorry: I meant 1:18

  • Breath... she lacks it.

  • Very true. This woman has the potential to be the next Kiri te Kanawa with that voice. If she could bring her breathing abilities to that of Kiri's, and make her scooping occasional instead of required, she could probably get pretty close. I love Renee as a whole package however.

  • it has NOTHING to do with breath. Have you heard her Vissi d'arte?? if so, then you know that she has technique/breathing/support down to a perfection. it isn't lack of breath at that moment...Fleming OFTEN uses a straight tone technique to give emphasis to the text...Fleming is amazing. Can you do any better? I'm sure no one posting on this video has the career that she has ...or will ever for that matter....just saying.

  • Not everybody can be a Jessye. Who, in any case, sings these songs very differently. Fleming can be good in these--very good, indeed--but she isn't always. She's best when kept busy on stage, forgetting about "Rennaaay". :-)

  • What a great pleassure to hear and to look at her! She is like an angel!

  • Oh My God! Has Renee surpassed Schwarzkof? Exquisite!

  • you are all wrong. jessye norman is the epitome of perfection in her recordings of these strauss songs

  • jessye is the perfection of this songs and there is nothing more to say...

    AUS!

  • There are many decent versions of this, but the Schwarzkopf version is the non pareil - simply brilliant.

  • could you give me a link to Kiri singing this? (with good sound) I would appreciate it. Thanks.

  • Em...the one on the related videos list is what I was referring to. Anyway, it's watch?v=Q8l99a5hJng for your reference !

  • OK I just realised what you meant ;-) yeah, the sound is totally butchered at some parts. Well, let me see if I could find a wma or mp3 file of Kiri singing this lieder !

    ;-)

  • I prefer Kiri Te Kanawa singing this because she can NAIL it, but couldn't find a good vid of her singing this.

  • The videos of Kiri singing this lieder on youtube are pretty damn good already. What more can you expect ?

  • that's a huge orchestra to be singing it. Must take her tons of energy to just sustain the notes while being heard by the audience!

  • I am with you. Gundula Janowitz's rendition of these songs is the most beautiful singing I have ever heard in my life.

  • Ma che palle...ma non si possono fare tutti 'sti portamenti dai! Il timbro è meraviglioso ma c'è poco altro cavolo! Non si può...Listen to Ianovitz!!

  • Here Renée Fleming does beautifully, and here the concertmaster is ravishing for the most part with his great solo;  the trouble is Claudio Abbado. This just feels too cold, even somewhat unfeeling - as if he felt he had to get through this song as quickly as possible (his soul quails?)!!

    Otherwise, if Masur and Norman have "Im Abendrot" licked, so far it seems like Schwarzkopf and Ackermann do as much here, with Fleming (either conductor) being a very close second - and it's not her fault!

  • Mme. Fleming is a very beautiful lady to begin with (though less mascara on her eyes would be even better) - and her voice matches!! However, the accompaniment can either enhance OR ruin any effort of any singer;  and if this is what Abbado is overall, I'll vote against him!!

  • Boring. Just a long stretch of sound, with no connection to text and the meaning of the song. The diction is very muddled; and to think that she actually studied with Schwarzkopf. I much prefer Gundula Janowitz and Kiri Te Kanawa in this, not to mention Schwarzkopf.

  • I'm suspicious that at least some of what seems muddled is NOT her fault - it's the recording engineers and/or the concert hall. Some of the balances seem skewed (which also can be the conductor's fault). It seems that Fleming does as beautifully as anybody can; however, if this is how cold and unsympathetic Abbado gets (he wasn't apparently balancing to be in sympathy with Fleming any more than with the others!), no thanks to him!!!

  • I have the Gundula Janowitz recording. It is breathtaking. I can see why you feel this about this particular performance. I actually do admire Fleming very much. But I have to say, Janowitz was a tremendous artist. You can't teach artistry.

  • Pour une fois.... la meilleure !

  • The best versions of this hauntingly beautiful piece of music? Te Kanawa, Schwarzkopf, Norman.

  • She was not good here. Nowadays, she developed into many bad habbits and I hope she would correct them before it is too late.

  • JESSYE NORMAN..IS THE MASTER OF THE 4 LAST SONGS!! Get her recording, it's definitive and HAD to be transferred from LP to CD due to the demand of it!!

  • @KEEPDATBS

    I had it but I traded it for the Solti/Te Kanawa and the Swartzkopf CDs. Granted, Kiri's German can use some work but Strauss' long lines requires one with a much smoother power flow than Norman. Jessye is great but leave these 4 last songs to the lyrics and not the dramatics

  • Schwarzkopf for me every time - an astouding depth & maturity that I have yet to hear anywhere else...

  • I think Renee's voice here, in this repertoire, is absolutely right and really quite wonderful. I listen mainly to her on the Christope Eschenbach/ Houston Symphony CD. I love Gundula's voice, too.

  • i love Gundula's also, she is the best in the first song, purest.

  • The Janowitz/Karajan is much better. I understand their ideas on line here, but it's a SONG. You need rubato and phrasing in a song. This is hardly a movement from a symphony which is exactly how it's being performed.....zzzzzz

  • Exactly, a passable but unidiomatic interpretation for mass consumption. Norman's try with Maazel is the same, symphonic and undifferentiated, with no attempt to sculpt a phrase. Man, this is lieder, for chrissake.

  • past her prime here, this is HORRID. I love her normally, but no. no. no. no.

  • I'm listening to this after listening to Jessye Norman and I think Fleming seems to swallowed by the orchestra in comparison especially in the lower notes and the higher seems to almost blast in contrast.

  • and the instrumental interlude after Schlummer senken is like soft tears - total resignation - like the knowledge when a near one, who has been ill for long has finally, but not suprisingly, passed away (and the memories rush to your mind)

  • i'm going to be honest. i do not like strauss very much at all. this however, is a beautiful piece of music, and she sings it incredibly well.

  • this is also what makes these songs so fascinating. James Levine said that "Rosenkavalier is perhaps RStrauss' best opera, but most of the time the heart (or inside etc) the music of R Strauss is hollow." I agree with Levine, but these last songs make a wonderful exception.

  • I think Jessye Norma is better, but I love this... the song itself is glorious and makes me cry, but there is an element to Norman's voice that Fleming lacks. But make no mistake, this is glorious singing in every way. And who cares about the diction?

  • Strauss'songs are some of the most beautiful songs ever written in my opinion. I think Schwarzkopf, Popp, and Norman communicate so much more feeling to these. Thanks for posting so I could listen.

  • To all the negative critics; great works are fluid and have a life in performance and through the interpretative medium of every performer. It cannot be fixed at one point, there is no validity in one "definitive" performance or reading. Reconsider your own responses to great music and love it.This is eternal music for the soul.

  • Gundula Janowitz. Four Last Songs. Inseparable.

  • I think Jessye Norman, Leontyne Price, and even Kiri Te Kanawa all sing this better than Renee. She's just overrated.

  • I love the way she lingers over a note. If I were a smoker, I'd need a cigarette after that performance.

  • fLEMING DOES A GREAT JOB ON THIS LIED. I BELIEVE THE NEGATIVE STUFF ON HER SINGING THIS STEMS FROM HER BEING AMERICAN RATHER THAN HER SINGING ABILITY. SHE HAS THE PIPES TO SING THIS LIED. SHE IS A FLEMING AND SINGS LIKE FLEMING (DAMN GOOD BY THE WAY) AND MOVES/ACTS LIKE FLEMING. I LIKE TE KANAWA'S FLOW AND POPP'S SCHEATHED POWER ON THIS BUT FLEMING'S GERMAN SURPASSES BOTH OF THEM. GREAT JOB RENEE!

  • I think she is dissed because of her looks and her glamorous album covers. People automatically lump her with the like of Brittney Speares without actually giving her a chance. She does Strauss very well.

  • People are so addicted to comparisons ... Fleming lacks the poise of Te Kanawa, the elegance of Schwarzkopf, who cares?

    The songs are so complex, so emotional that I'm sure there are many ways to interpret them.

    Fleming's emphasis relies on a more "rhetoric", overtly expressive singing, and the result is fantastic and sincere. Apart from some portamenti, this is very beautiful, carefully done but never sounding laboured.

  • yep - comparing can be fun, but ranking sucks.The best of my 5 records i own of these songs,could perhaps be Norman's and yet,as i comment elsewhere,it is not perfect - Norman's voice is warm and full,and while a it's a great performance,these songs seem to desire a voice of the Schwarzkopf/Te Kanawa sound.

  • Fleming me gusta en otro repertorio. CAntar la música de los alemanes no es cantar el Verismo Italiano y las resoluciones vocales no son las mismas, aparte de la diferencia del idioma.

  • Dame Kiri does these best! This lacks poise! For ME...

  • Sorry but you REALLY need to hear Gundalay Janowitz if you think this is good - I urge you to listen to it.

  • Sorry, but I like Elizabeth Schwarzkopf's 1965 recording w/ the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by George Szell much better-- it's on YouTube, too. I've also listened to Jessica Norman, but in my opinion neither she nor Fleming have the..... zeitgeist, if you will, of Schwarzkopf. I'm not going so far as to say that a German woman will always sing Strauss better than any other nationality (I'm not even German myself), but maybe it helps.

  • ...it surely helps! These songs are that much imfluenced by the magic of words...and in my opinion only native speakers can transfer the magic of Hesse's poems to the highest extent. I'm sorry to say this but this interpretation (unlike 'Im Abendrot'!!!) rather is a failed attempt.

  • If that's the case then how do you explain Kirsten Flagstad who is every bit as good as Schwarzkopf in this lied if not better?

    Flagstad premiered the Four Last Songs and she is Norwegian.

  • I'd reply: Norwegian and German are similar in pronounciation - and maybe she learnt German in school? However, I am not familiar with her interpretation; therefore I cannot comment on this.

  • Herodotus,I think the recording by Jessye Norman is fantastic & with great atmosphere, and yet, i think "zeitgeist" (i am not german either,and was not born at that epoch) is a very good point. The zeitgeist also makes old recordings so fascinating - but some new once sometimes have captured some of that as well.

  • So - as I comment elsewhere - Norman is the record of these songs i'd keep if i had to give away 4of the 5 I own, and yet I said "Norman's voice is warm and full,and while a it's a great performance,these songs seem to desire a voice of the Schwarzkopf/Te Kanawa sound" - so there's no "perfect" rendition of these. Shwarzkopf certainly has zeitgeist in her voice,having lived in that era.

  • and because the "zeitgeist" fascinates me so much, please be patient and let me add a comment from another category - the zeitgeist in Marlene Dietrich's voice, like when she sings "Sag mir, wo die Gräber sind, Blumen blühn im Sommerwind" - the originally American song by Pete Seeger.

  • but it's not only that Marlene or Elizabeth lived in that era - there's a whole lotta more zeitgeist in the performance of Lili Marlene when it was sung by Dietrich than there is when sung by Lale Andersen who made it famous and to whose voice it is usually associated.

  • This isn't the correct usage of the word "zeitgeist" ...

  • ok, in that case the American English usage of "zeitgeist" is different from its original European and German usage (frequently used by the roimantics). I am sorry for the erratic usage. "In German, the word has more layers of meaning than the English translation" says one source, so mistakes like this are possible, and I thought the word does not really have a very well-defined precise meaning in any language.

  • I speak about 8 languages myself and I tend to mix them occasionally. But in principle, I have always been very wary of speaking of any definitely "correct" meaning or usage of any word, especially such a "flou" (as the French would say- in english roughly: "vague") one as "zeitgeist".But I am grateful for the correction.(Another case where English differs from other languages, is e.g the choice in the usage of sarcasm vs. irony etc.)

  • But if such a basic (American?) English source as FreeDictionary is reliable,I used the word in its English denotation:"The spirit of the time;the spirit characteristic of an age or generation" (&related words:flavor,feel,spirit,smell­, feeling,look,tone - the general atmosphere of a place or situation and the effect that it has on people;"the feel of the city excited him"; etc.)

  • I love this song......

  • Oh wonderful! Fleming excells here! You should also listen to Schwarzkopf do wonders with this song

  • Abbado is and will forever be the man! My favorite conductor. I would so like to work with him.

  • The music of my own funeral

  • Fleming's voice is ideal, lush and full. I go back between her and Popp here. Popp is the greater artist but Fleming's sound is ravishing.

  • C'eset le troisième lieder qui me bouleverse le plus...merci

  • Je crois qu'on est pareil! le troisième, et surtout le solo de violon, repris par la soprano. Mais la plus belle chose dans ce troisème lied, c'est Jessye Norman, à la reprise du solo, qui fait un crescendo sublime à la fin, sur "zu leben"... et qui me provoque des frissons d'émotions à chaque écoute! c'est ici : youtube . com/watch?v=O75CnnsFonM (Norman/Masur reste LA version pour moi!)

  • Wunderbar!!!

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