Until I took off my blind faith glasses, I never realized how destructive a force religion is. I just assumed it was at the very worst, harmless. There are people who would reverse hundreds of years of progress and discovery just to protect their own delusions.
When America abandons science and innovation in favor of religious superstition, it will lose it's position as leader of free world, just as the former great thinking nations of the past.
Do they not realize that alot of science is build upon the theory of evolution proving evolution to be true again and again? A huge part of modern medicine is build around the theory of evolution!
And it's America always complaining about uncivilized countries having nuclear weapons! I'm as worried, or more, about the US having nukes than Iran right now.
@sngcoach Well, I learned about the creation at school. But not in science class, it was called "religion" class. And there I was tought that it is a myth :-P
11:00 How fucking dare you say that students can't appreciate knowledge. If they truly can't you need to blame the teachers. Any child older than 6 can understand evolution at it's core, and can be thought to appreciate any detail, in any form. From art to math. The human brain is a sponge, It will absorb knowledge and use that knowledge to learn, and comprehend more. We know what we know because we wanted to fucking know it. We can't say we can't, because we know we can. Imagination is key.
I find it reassuring that there are many other intelligent people in the meeting that knew what they are talking about. The agenda-filled ignorance seems a smaller threat here in this arena, even though many parts of our country doesn't reflect this. I came from a Christian school, and our science classes was so convoluted :( And then I took biology at the college level and I was overwhelmed with information that took me just a little more while for me to understand :o
It's amazing, creationists cast doubt because science isn't 100% accurate but they present absolutely no evidence what so ever other than bronze age mythology, it's just the biggest pile of male bovine excrement imaginable...
I like the part where they suggest that we should allow high school students to evaluate cutting edge scientific research to determine what they think is the best explanation....
....perhaps they should try the same with all other subjects. Imagine a world in which students can determine how Calculus should work, or how verbs are conjugated, or what time it is, or what is considered 'safe driving'.
Why is creation science (in the first few minutes) NEW research? If there was a god-inspired scientific theory, one would expect that to always be there.
What is a factual error? Are there fake errors, or errors that are real but not facts?
@wowamonn Do they watch "Ancient Aliens" on History channel? I love that show... It is just a theory, but oddly enough, there is more evidence for that than there is for the god of the bible
@shadesters I wouldn't call it a Theory, maybe a hypothesis. Sure there are more things you can find to verify it, compared to god and the bible, but that's really not saying much :P
If anyone came with that kind of.... knowledge 2 a meeting of same sort here (Denmark) they would asked 2 leave -and be in danger of loosing thier job, if they worked in education -other than kindergarden that is! ;)
How old are the text books. The one I used in bio did not mention anything about heckels embryos expect that is inacurate. That was about 10 years ago. Aronra is correct on the facts on population evolution, gene flow, morphology, etc... If someone wants to through in some facts mention that a French clergy man came up many of the taxonomy classification even humans being classifed along the apes.
@jonbrotto Yet man does recognise himself [as an animal]. But I ask you and the whole world for a generic differentia between man and ape which conforms to the principles of natural history, I certainly know of none... If I were to call man ape or vice versa, I should bring down all the theologians on my head. But perhaps I should still do it according to the rules of science.
@gamesbok Thanks for the quote. I am a Catholic and I went to Catholic college where catholic was a major contributor to a field was mentioned in class. I couldn't remember his name but in Bio he was mentionned almost every genus. One thing they should teach in texas in a religion class is the origin of Christianity.
@jonbrotto Linnaeus invented taxonomy as a system, but the movement is away from his system now, as increasingly it seems nature has no respect for names and they turn out to be arbitary. Ring species make a mess of it. Cladistics is the modern approach.
Linnaeus was the son of a Swedish Lutherian minister, although first published in the Netherlands. He lectured in biology at Upsala University from 1730 and travelled a lot. Incidently he's the type specimen for Homo Sapien Sapien.
From CNS News - "Obama Administration Exempting Schools From Federal Law’s Testing Mandate - (AP) - State and local education officials have been begging the federal government for relief from student testing mandates in the federal No Child Left Behind law, but school starts soon and Congress still hasn't answered the call. Education Secretary Arne Duncan says he will announce a new waiver system Monday to give schools a break.".
The Army approved an atheism-themed concert at Fort Bragg.
"The plan is to hold the event on March 31 at the main parade field at Fort Bragg, where the Christian-themed Rock the Fort concert was held. Famed atheist Richard Dawkins is scheduled to appear, along with musicians, speakers and other entertainment."
The religious mindset requires low education of the masses, other than biblical education. Ignorant people are far easier to manipulate than informed and educated people. We see this in national politics as well. It's why the Republican party is always trying to cripple science and education, and always support religious endeavors. Religion continues to be, as it has always been, a cancer on mankind, and in America it is metastasizing.
Only Texas takes the cake. They are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY fucking worse! But then again, what would you expect from a state that elects Rick Perry (and both Bushes) as it's governor? Lol!
Wow...I feel RLY sorry that you have to put up w/stupidity like this! Your view of Humanity must be pretty dim...lol.
But yeah, if it helps, this reminds me a LOT of what I had to put up w/in rural AR...I was living in Little Rock, AR, for 2 years, and Hot Springs for the 2 before that, and Crossett, AR for the 8 before that, but I moved to New York (Buffalo) in 2009. I can firmly state that AR has a lot of this kind of shit, too...
Only Texas takes the cake. They are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
It's amazing how you hear the same wrong arguments by creationists over and over, that there's some sort of contraversy in the science and that there are alternate scientific explanations. What utter lies! There IS no contraversy within the scientific community, just creationists, and there isn't a lick of science about creationism or its twin brother, intellegent design.
I really feel sorry for Texas kids being subjected to this forced indoctrination.
OMG! I've never seen a Klingon in a suit! AronRa looks terrific in his sartorial splendor and, more importantly, he sounded awesome during his commentary to the Board.
I love the way Mercer keeps bringing up that the claim that morphology based taxonomies ALWAYS match genetically derived taxonomies is an inaccurate statement disproved by observation OVER and OVER and OVER again as though he believes he has found his AH-HAH! contradiction EVEN when Aron explains how the contradictions are, in fact, confirmations.
Oh, and Miller/Urey, peppered moths, punctuated equilibrium vs. gradual, failure to address epigenetics(?), AND Haeckel's embryos(!) - PUH-LEASE!!!
What this tells me is the school board needs to purchase more updated txt books if they are using heckles embryos. science is always changing and learning new things it is almost impossible to keep up to date on new information unless you are a professional in the field. who says children arent allowed to question things? there is nothing scientific about "magic man dun it!"
You know, if we just put Richard Dawkins as secretary of education, we could catch up and pass japan in intelligence in, probably under a decade. Or at least obliterate creationist stupidity being taught in some schools
"It doesn't make sense to me, so it must be wrong!" The stupid... it burns!
I had to stop counting the number of informal logical fallacies I encountered while watching this video. I am curious, though, would they have some such charade as this if we were to bring to their attention that Newtonian gravity has a "competing" theory (e.g., MOND)? I would think not.
I'm greatly amused by seeing AronRa suddenly stepping out of a fairly mild series of speakers and simply roflstomping over the mincing little dance that was going on.
I happen to be personally acquainted with creationist Dr. Shormann who speaks at 7:33. Used to attend his church. Not quite sure how to handle him - he seems like a well-meaning guy, but I don't know if he's just ignorant, self-deluded or an outright liar. He has a PhD in marine biology, there's no excuse for this sort of bad thinking.
Being in the UK, this is truly shocking to watch. It's just jaw-droppingly weird to see legislators debating things that are so well established. Have you cut out the gravity debate or do they actually believe in that?
These fruit cakes would be just laughed at here, literally laughed out of the room, and down the corridor, into the street, where crowds of people would just point at them, saying,
"That man actually thinks- REALLY thinks- the world is 6000 yrs old!"
Why is this still topic of debates? And at this level? One of those guys even implied "let students come to their own conclusions". We don't need more Ray Comforts thank you very much!
Im glad you are a Texan Aron, if anything, you have the say to at least make people on the board realize their mistakes, and that's something. Maybe theyll listen to you.
What's this... proof the more ignorant one is, the more likely the peanut brained size ones will get re-elected?
I'd suggest that those who wish to put themselves forward for any political office, a certain minimum required level of qualification in science needs to have been achieved. I suppose by Tuesday, most Americans will really appreciate the how lack of the ability to do simple addition, has had such a bad effect.
How would anyone know any of these "factual errors" had a scientist not done the research. As far as that goes, Why are they trusting without investigation themselves the statements these scientist have published?
@pumpstations I have to add, Why not have religious class teaching the controversy of knowledge we actually have. Such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, Nor John ever even met Jesus. Provided that He even existed. Then include all religions and facts about them, and let the students decide what they want to believe.
@pumpstations I used to teach religion in UK secondary schools. That type of thing was covered. Perhaps this is a reason why we are pretty secular lot. I see no reason for it not to be taught in the US.
@x42brown I had only given this minor consideration in the past. I do think we should give the fundies what they want, but much more. (across the pond,over here) An entire class devoted to religious history of the world. All religions, only facts that can be backed up to the extent of any other type history class.
"If one would review the curriculum taught in the ninth grade, especially in biology, one would be hard-pressed to find any weaknesses, much less a competing theory."
Sort of like when you review the state of reality, eh?
"Recitation"? After all the creationists stood up and went through their standard script of long-resolved "problems" with evolution? I was waiting for somebody to mention Nebraska Man. And now Perry gutted the education budget. I guess we'll lead the way as the willfully stupid flush this country down the toilet.
Who's the "genius" at 7:55 with proposition about "questions of natural history'?
'History can't be tested", OK, we really don't have time machine, that's true, but we DO see consequences and so we can deduct causes.
I believe what he says of "there's no way to test history" would make any court burst in laughter. While true in it's literary meaning, it contradicts all system of investigation, I mean legal system. He should see at least a couple of "CSI" episodes.
"...what hundreds of scientists know today." - LOL. Creationists are funny. What does that equal? 0.000000001% of all biologists in the world, give or take a decimal place?
Did that guy just say that the Miller/Urey Experiment did not yield any protein? I read they went back and double tested the original samples and found MORE protiene like 20 kinds.
@camelotradio - for info on Miller/Urey, Google "Andy Ellington's blog". He is an evolutionary biologist and his most recent post was on July 22nd, the day he testified at the Texas School Board hearings. Most of the post deals with Miller/Urey.
I love how the critics of the evolutionary science fail to understand (much less correctly pronounce) even the most basic concepts of evolution biology. Example: "ArrkaoPetrix" 17:08 XD I can't decide if they're clowns in sheep's clothing or sheep in clown suits. But then I remember how political clout these Oopma Loopas have...and then it's not funny anymore. :(
Why did the religious people that were assigned to speak, not show up in person?
Gutless, it appears. They won't have to answer any questions if they don't show up. And, the assigned reader won't answer anything either. They know their stuff is bunk.
To the creationists.... where is the evidence?.... show me the evidence..... SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE..... lol just jokes, dont want you to waste your time. Remember keep your kids dumb that way they will never know more than you.
You might find the following quote interesting. I think it's certainly germane to the discussion.
“Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith… We need believing people.” - Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant
"Theories should be placed under critical review by high school students" WTF? Most high school students are incapable of thinking rationally, and are still heavily influenced by years of indoctrination from their parents.
perhaps somewhat off-topic but...just a thought...textbooks in general are static and not able to keep up with all the information flow out there...and are therefore not an ideal instrument for learning...but the same can be said of most schools...^^
Much respect Aron. Very well done, as we have become privileged to expect.
I know I'm not alone in expressing a nerdish fantasy that you might run for, win, and subsequently guide, the TSBOE into an era of excellence. We feel that you could single handedly make Texas a place where children might have an expectation of receiving a valid public education, instead of having to fear a shameful public indoctrination.
That was a very strong and necessary presentation you made. Sometimes people tend to adopt a negotiating demeanor or get distracted by divergent points. You stuck it to them. You said what they needed to hear, no punches pulled.
This is great news. Now maybe Texas can get up to the 21st century in science education.
Hell, I would have been happy if they got up to the 20th century!
Aron - very nicely done! (of course, so was your original video)
I was so happy to hear that the real science standards were adopted. I am no longer in Texas, but two of my grandchildren are and I have a very large dog in this fight.
People want to reap the benefits of modern science while simultaneously throwing us back into the dark ages. You can't have both ways. Science in school should be based on good sound up to date science. You can not have unsupported religious ideas taught--if you want to teach the controversy it should get a one minute mention in a modern social studies class and that is it.
i live in india but im a big fan of yours.. keep up the good work. we have come to the point where we must take a stand against ignorance and religious dogmas. my country is diseased by these dogmas, belief of fairy tales and no wonder it is infested by poverty, hunger, corruption etc. if god existed, country like indian could hav been a heaven cuz we have most hardcore religious ppl in the world but its not. its otherway around.
Lol, you can just hear in Aron's voice how he's trying his best to restrain himself. You know he wants to start yelling, smacking creationists, and begin destroying the boardroom. But he did a good job. Congrats to Texas for upholding science.
@AForkSpoon never. the fact is that organisms change through time, specifically allelic frequencies change, the theory explains all the observations and makes predictions
@AForkSpoon We don't. Evolution is a fact. It's observable and repeatable. The explaination of observed facts is the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection.
All science can ever give is theory, the explanation.
@gamesbok lol, the guy before you said no theory can ever become fact. Well, ill tell him about how the theory of gravity still has some chance to be false.
@AForkSpoon So, the force that holds this very planet we live on, holds the moon in orbit around us, and holds our planet in orbit around our sun, is false? No such force exists? No, Gravity most certainly exists.
@AForkSpoon The funny thing is that a scientific theory is superior to science facts. A scientific theory is a model that explains the facts.
You're confusing theory with its other, much more general definition of theory, which is the same as a scientific hypothesis to which a scientific theory is not.
@AForkSpoon in science terms a Theory is a well tested explanation of a set of observations. It explains how facts interrelate. A theory doesnt become a fact.
Aron, in your opinion did this meeting leave you with a good or bad feeling about the future of education in Texas?
I for one am definitely on your side. I have family and relatives in Texas, so it hits close to home that they've been trying to make today's youth ill prepared in the name of an ancient desert djinn.
@luccaskunk "Aron, in your opinion did this meeting leave you with a good or bad feeling about the future of education in Texas?"
The pro-science forces won. From the NCSE website: "Pop the champagne corks. The Texas Board of Education has unanimously come down on the side of evolution. In a 14-0* vote, the board today approved scientifically accurate high school biology textbook supplements from established mainstream publishers — and did not approve the creationist-backed supplements..."
@AlanCFA holy crap? unanimous? even Mercer? Seriously, a young earth creationist who pushed that nonsense in the first place voted in favor of evolution? The only words I can think of to express my joy right now would sound sarcastic coming from my mouth (being the atheist daughter of a pentecostal preacher) so I won't say them. This gives me incredible hope!
@luccaskunk It would seem that without Don McLeroy, the creationists are somewhat defanged. They did get something their way, the publisher Holt McDougal has agreed to make some changes
"Holt McDougal agreed, after some resistance, to offer changes in the language it employed in eight instances dealing with evolution concepts. The board agreed to adopt the text after passing a motion asking Scott, the education commissioner, to coordinate the changes with the publisher."
Holy shit Aron,how the hell can you sit through this bullshit without wanting to wipe the floor with these idiots?I think you are a better man than I.RKOPTERICKS? Wow! Bring down the hammer,Mr. Ra.Bring down the hammer.Do these Texans realize that a bunch of Chinese scientists are drinking rice wine and laughing their asses off.,before getting back to work on human genetic differentiation for sustained interplanetary travel?
..now there is this sheet of paper, being read, poorly, word for word, by some bloke who seems to have trouble pronouncing all the long words; and in the text the demand is made that pupils develop critical thinking.
This guy is full of crap. This quote would apply here, "That's a stupid thing to say and you're a stupid person for saying it. Everyone that has heard you is just a little more stupid for hearing you."
Cambrian Explosion, Haeckel's embryos... what the heck? Is that STILL all the YEC's can show? Those creatard misrepresentations have been debunked for decades.
So after stating a laundry list of facts the best that guy can do is come back on you and try to find a way to define the word 'theory'? Seriously? 'here are the facts', 'Let me counter by playing semantics with words.'
I love these videos, but it would be awesome if you could do a commentary with these to explain the problems with these arguments for those of us who aren't as well versed in the history of things such as Henkel's Embryos.
@gamingguy90 "I love these videos, but it would be awesome if you could do a commentary with these to explain the problems with these arguments for those of us who aren't as well versed in the history of things such as Henkel's Embryos."
DonExodus2 took on Haeckel's embryos when he blasts Casey Luskin of The Discovery Institute
RA RA RA for AronRa!!! Thank you for your rational intellectual light in the midst of the religious political darkness that would envelop Texas - as well as the world.
Science textbooks are written by actual Scientists who hold Ph.D's and other accreditation. Of course they're not going to listen to the state's stupid demands. Even for the money, they wouldn't risk undermining their academic credibility writing BS. That is unless the publishers start accepting authors from Liberty University or something.
This is what happens when the prefontal lobes and the entire neocortex is completely ignored and unused, and only the underlying central cortex bit of jelly is put to use. Thanks for keeping children stunted and underperforming! I'm sure the Chinese will be more than happy to hold their engineers back a few years so our future morons can catch up and be competitive.
they present the embryos but they explain why they are wrong. every argument they make is either mistaken, out of context or outright lies, the outright lies seem to make up the majority of them
no shit they dont mention speciation when talking about the peppered moths, it was never meant to demonstrate speciation but ring species are meant to, and DO demonstrate speciation. it seems creationists cant be honest in this day and age
High school students are no more equipped to argue and debate the actual controversies in evolutionary theories, than those creationtards are equipped to discuss and debate the effect that Dark Matter will have on interstellar space travel. It takes years and years of learning about complex chemical reactions, not a fucking year or a semester in a fucking class where the teacher may not even have any serious and formal education on the matter or qualifications. Fucking IDtards.
This makes me embarrassed to be an American.
MrRobotoToo 3 weeks ago
Until I took off my blind faith glasses, I never realized how destructive a force religion is. I just assumed it was at the very worst, harmless. There are people who would reverse hundreds of years of progress and discovery just to protect their own delusions.
When America abandons science and innovation in favor of religious superstition, it will lose it's position as leader of free world, just as the former great thinking nations of the past.
aquiace 1 month ago
THIS IS TERRIFYING
Do they not realize that alot of science is build upon the theory of evolution proving evolution to be true again and again? A huge part of modern medicine is build around the theory of evolution!
doombow666 1 month ago
This is some fucking scary shit.
Some incredible bat shit insane scary shit.
It's incredible how you can have LAYMEN deciding what is to be taught to children.
That's not how things are done here and perhaps that is one of the main reasons we have one of the best education system in the world.
Professionals decide what is taught.
It's the same with the courts here. We don't have laymen in the jury. They are all professionals.
And to think that your nation has nuclear weapons...
BlizBob 1 month ago 3
@BlizBob
And it's America always complaining about uncivilized countries having nuclear weapons! I'm as worried, or more, about the US having nukes than Iran right now.
ExperimentsInSound 1 month ago
I dont want to live in this country anymore
Matt412100 2 months ago
18:05
Um ok? So what does Cosmology have to do with evolution? More creationists
EarlFaulk 2 months ago
12:30 for your creationist canards....seriously it hasnt got any better
EarlFaulk 2 months ago
The ignorant spewings of many of these people is sickening to watch.
AtheistVendetta 2 months ago
@sngcoach Well, I learned about the creation at school. But not in science class, it was called "religion" class. And there I was tought that it is a myth :-P
M0rdH0rst 4 months ago
11:00 How fucking dare you say that students can't appreciate knowledge. If they truly can't you need to blame the teachers. Any child older than 6 can understand evolution at it's core, and can be thought to appreciate any detail, in any form. From art to math. The human brain is a sponge, It will absorb knowledge and use that knowledge to learn, and comprehend more. We know what we know because we wanted to fucking know it. We can't say we can't, because we know we can. Imagination is key.
rampaginwalrus 4 months ago
I find it reassuring that there are many other intelligent people in the meeting that knew what they are talking about. The agenda-filled ignorance seems a smaller threat here in this arena, even though many parts of our country doesn't reflect this. I came from a Christian school, and our science classes was so convoluted :( And then I took biology at the college level and I was overwhelmed with information that took me just a little more while for me to understand :o
shoulderkolibri 5 months ago
"What HUNDREDS of scientists know to date." DEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
DeflocculatedDentist 5 months ago
If I was there I don't think I could have NOT stood up and yelled "BULLSH*T" about 50 times.
bruzewski 5 months ago
congratulations creationists, you figured out (belately) that no method of obtaining knowledge is 100% accurate
KarinMikazuki 5 months ago
Totally boggled by this. Is this really the road that America is heading down? Please tell my this is a joke.
jimmyjazz240 5 months ago
It's amazing, creationists cast doubt because science isn't 100% accurate but they present absolutely no evidence what so ever other than bronze age mythology, it's just the biggest pile of male bovine excrement imaginable...
Moontanman 5 months ago
I like the part where they suggest that we should allow high school students to evaluate cutting edge scientific research to determine what they think is the best explanation....
....perhaps they should try the same with all other subjects. Imagine a world in which students can determine how Calculus should work, or how verbs are conjugated, or what time it is, or what is considered 'safe driving'.
1n354a 5 months ago
Why is creation science (in the first few minutes) NEW research? If there was a god-inspired scientific theory, one would expect that to always be there.
What is a factual error? Are there fake errors, or errors that are real but not facts?
poorkinghaggard 5 months ago
17:00
THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE TO EVOLUTION. MAGIC IS NOT THEORY.
SeamusLight93 5 months ago 12
Wait....did he just say "Dr Gene Hunt"?......FIRE UP THE QUATTRO!
NoodlesTux 6 months ago
I love how christians think that trying to disprove evolution somehow makes their claims true...
we could have been created by aliens for all we know
shadesters 6 months ago 3
@shadesters My two younger brothers strongly believe that humans were bio-engineered by Aliens.
wowamonn 6 months ago
@wowamonn Do they watch "Ancient Aliens" on History channel? I love that show... It is just a theory, but oddly enough, there is more evidence for that than there is for the god of the bible
shadesters 6 months ago
@shadesters Ya they both watch it all the time. I watch it sometimes and some of the information presented is intresting.
wowamonn 6 months ago
@shadesters I wouldn't call it a Theory, maybe a hypothesis. Sure there are more things you can find to verify it, compared to god and the bible, but that's really not saying much :P
Halflifefan54 5 months ago in playlist More videos from AronRa
@Halflifefan54 Well I was just going by what the show calls it... they call it the "ancient astronaut theory"
shadesters 5 months ago
Damn?! O.o
If anyone came with that kind of.... knowledge 2 a meeting of same sort here (Denmark) they would asked 2 leave -and be in danger of loosing thier job, if they worked in education -other than kindergarden that is! ;)
naglphar 6 months ago
How old are the text books. The one I used in bio did not mention anything about heckels embryos expect that is inacurate. That was about 10 years ago. Aronra is correct on the facts on population evolution, gene flow, morphology, etc... If someone wants to through in some facts mention that a French clergy man came up many of the taxonomy classification even humans being classifed along the apes.
jonbrotto 6 months ago
@jonbrotto Yet man does recognise himself [as an animal]. But I ask you and the whole world for a generic differentia between man and ape which conforms to the principles of natural history, I certainly know of none... If I were to call man ape or vice versa, I should bring down all the theologians on my head. But perhaps I should still do it according to the rules of science.
— Carolus Linnaeus
Letter to Johann Gmelon (14 Jan 1747),
Though you might like that.
gamesbok 5 months ago
@gamesbok Thank you for the quote.
jonbrotto 5 months ago
@gamesbok Thanks for the quote. I am a Catholic and I went to Catholic college where catholic was a major contributor to a field was mentioned in class. I couldn't remember his name but in Bio he was mentionned almost every genus. One thing they should teach in texas in a religion class is the origin of Christianity.
jonbrotto 5 months ago
@jonbrotto Linnaeus invented taxonomy as a system, but the movement is away from his system now, as increasingly it seems nature has no respect for names and they turn out to be arbitary. Ring species make a mess of it. Cladistics is the modern approach.
Linnaeus was the son of a Swedish Lutherian minister, although first published in the Netherlands. He lectured in biology at Upsala University from 1730 and travelled a lot. Incidently he's the type specimen for Homo Sapien Sapien.
gamesbok 5 months ago
From CNS News - "Obama Administration Exempting Schools From Federal Law’s Testing Mandate - (AP) - State and local education officials have been begging the federal government for relief from student testing mandates in the federal No Child Left Behind law, but school starts soon and Congress still hasn't answered the call. Education Secretary Arne Duncan says he will announce a new waiver system Monday to give schools a break.".
KenMacMillan 6 months ago
The Army approved an atheism-themed concert at Fort Bragg.
"The plan is to hold the event on March 31 at the main parade field at Fort Bragg, where the Christian-themed Rock the Fort concert was held. Famed atheist Richard Dawkins is scheduled to appear, along with musicians, speakers and other entertainment."
KenMacMillan 6 months ago
@KenMacMillan Didn't they cancel that?
morpheus8624 6 months ago
@morpheus8624 Apparently they did. I didn't know.
KenMacMillan 6 months ago
The religious mindset requires low education of the masses, other than biblical education. Ignorant people are far easier to manipulate than informed and educated people. We see this in national politics as well. It's why the Republican party is always trying to cripple science and education, and always support religious endeavors. Religion continues to be, as it has always been, a cancer on mankind, and in America it is metastasizing.
ltflermy 6 months ago
@AronRa
Only Texas takes the cake. They are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY fucking worse! But then again, what would you expect from a state that elects Rick Perry (and both Bushes) as it's governor? Lol!
macgeek2004 6 months ago
@AronRa
Wow...I feel RLY sorry that you have to put up w/stupidity like this! Your view of Humanity must be pretty dim...lol.
But yeah, if it helps, this reminds me a LOT of what I had to put up w/in rural AR...I was living in Little Rock, AR, for 2 years, and Hot Springs for the 2 before that, and Crossett, AR for the 8 before that, but I moved to New York (Buffalo) in 2009. I can firmly state that AR has a lot of this kind of shit, too...
Only Texas takes the cake. They are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
macgeek2004 6 months ago
Wow. Just, wow.
It's amazing how you hear the same wrong arguments by creationists over and over, that there's some sort of contraversy in the science and that there are alternate scientific explanations. What utter lies! There IS no contraversy within the scientific community, just creationists, and there isn't a lick of science about creationism or its twin brother, intellegent design.
I really feel sorry for Texas kids being subjected to this forced indoctrination.
resistnzisfutl 6 months ago
Aron Nelson.... weerd
jabblesfan1 7 months ago
OMG! I've never seen a Klingon in a suit! AronRa looks terrific in his sartorial splendor and, more importantly, he sounded awesome during his commentary to the Board.
Bravo, AronRa, bravo.
Turandot29 7 months ago
I love the way Mercer keeps bringing up that the claim that morphology based taxonomies ALWAYS match genetically derived taxonomies is an inaccurate statement disproved by observation OVER and OVER and OVER again as though he believes he has found his AH-HAH! contradiction EVEN when Aron explains how the contradictions are, in fact, confirmations.
Oh, and Miller/Urey, peppered moths, punctuated equilibrium vs. gradual, failure to address epigenetics(?), AND Haeckel's embryos(!) - PUH-LEASE!!!
steveb0503 7 months ago
Nelson, huh
Thatonedude917 7 months ago
Those people trying to fight teachings of science need to learn that you need to level a landscape before building a sky scraper.
Th3Sh1n1gam1 7 months ago
Why... why are those religious folks trying to deter learning?
And... it's so stupid how they go, so can you do this? No? Exactly! That's all I have to say cause you know what? I WON! end of questioning.
Th3Sh1n1gam1 7 months ago
@Th3Sh1n1gam1, because learning is threatening to religion. And the religiots know it!
Turandot29 7 months ago
What this tells me is the school board needs to purchase more updated txt books if they are using heckles embryos. science is always changing and learning new things it is almost impossible to keep up to date on new information unless you are a professional in the field. who says children arent allowed to question things? there is nothing scientific about "magic man dun it!"
minesoriginal 7 months ago
You know, if we just put Richard Dawkins as secretary of education, we could catch up and pass japan in intelligence in, probably under a decade. Or at least obliterate creationist stupidity being taught in some schools
Spocktacular96 7 months ago
Good afternoon ladies and diddlemen.
CavemanBCE 7 months ago
"It doesn't make sense to me, so it must be wrong!" The stupid... it burns!
I had to stop counting the number of informal logical fallacies I encountered while watching this video. I am curious, though, would they have some such charade as this if we were to bring to their attention that Newtonian gravity has a "competing" theory (e.g., MOND)? I would think not.
communistgoatboy 7 months ago
I'm greatly amused by seeing AronRa suddenly stepping out of a fairly mild series of speakers and simply roflstomping over the mincing little dance that was going on.
OnyxSparrow 7 months ago
Tell 'em Aron!
WilbertK13 7 months ago
For these people to listen to AronRa he should talk like a evangelical preacher. Lots of highs and lows.
MrRedthief 7 months ago
I happen to be personally acquainted with creationist Dr. Shormann who speaks at 7:33. Used to attend his church. Not quite sure how to handle him - he seems like a well-meaning guy, but I don't know if he's just ignorant, self-deluded or an outright liar. He has a PhD in marine biology, there's no excuse for this sort of bad thinking.
BardWanderer 7 months ago
Being in the UK, this is truly shocking to watch. It's just jaw-droppingly weird to see legislators debating things that are so well established. Have you cut out the gravity debate or do they actually believe in that?
These fruit cakes would be just laughed at here, literally laughed out of the room, and down the corridor, into the street, where crowds of people would just point at them, saying,
"That man actually thinks- REALLY thinks- the world is 6000 yrs old!"
-mass hysteria......
stonestreaker 7 months ago
listening to this crap makes my brain hurt. and not just because of the idiotic dialect.
Meskiagkasher 7 months ago
Why is this still topic of debates? And at this level? One of those guys even implied "let students come to their own conclusions". We don't need more Ray Comforts thank you very much!
FHomeBrew 7 months ago
Wow, Ken Mercer is real slimeball. Thank you for sharing this with us, I hadn't realized that we were going through it again.
fedos 7 months ago
Im glad you are a Texan Aron, if anything, you have the say to at least make people on the board realize their mistakes, and that's something. Maybe theyll listen to you.
wrongfire 7 months ago
You really can't comprehend how stupid this looks to someone from a secular-majority country. It just boggles my mind.
mrdaym 7 months ago 32
@mrdaym Pity us. I think maybe we should have let the South secede.
SelectHawk 8 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@happyhayden11 >"god i love your voice, keep up the good work :)"
I like AronRa's better ;)
EvolBob1 7 months ago
What's this... proof the more ignorant one is, the more likely the peanut brained size ones will get re-elected?
I'd suggest that those who wish to put themselves forward for any political office, a certain minimum required level of qualification in science needs to have been achieved. I suppose by Tuesday, most Americans will really appreciate the how lack of the ability to do simple addition, has had such a bad effect.
Praying wont help either.
EvolBob1 7 months ago
How would anyone know any of these "factual errors" had a scientist not done the research. As far as that goes, Why are they trusting without investigation themselves the statements these scientist have published?
pumpstations 7 months ago
@pumpstations I have to add, Why not have religious class teaching the controversy of knowledge we actually have. Such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, Nor John ever even met Jesus. Provided that He even existed. Then include all religions and facts about them, and let the students decide what they want to believe.
Like that would ever happen.
pumpstations 7 months ago
@pumpstations I used to teach religion in UK secondary schools. That type of thing was covered. Perhaps this is a reason why we are pretty secular lot. I see no reason for it not to be taught in the US.
x42brown 7 months ago
@x42brown I had only given this minor consideration in the past. I do think we should give the fundies what they want, but much more. (across the pond,over here) An entire class devoted to religious history of the world. All religions, only facts that can be backed up to the extent of any other type history class.
pumpstations 7 months ago
Still at the start here, but in any EU country this guy would have been dismissed before minute two if he was ever even put on the speaker.
coladict 7 months ago
That very last line is golden (24:41):
"If one would review the curriculum taught in the ninth grade, especially in biology, one would be hard-pressed to find any weaknesses, much less a competing theory."
Sort of like when you review the state of reality, eh?
pilby 7 months ago
"Recitation"? After all the creationists stood up and went through their standard script of long-resolved "problems" with evolution? I was waiting for somebody to mention Nebraska Man. And now Perry gutted the education budget. I guess we'll lead the way as the willfully stupid flush this country down the toilet.
tctheunbeliever 7 months ago
holy crap! AronRa in a suit on C-span! O_O
you sounded nervous (or maybe your tie was too tight) but I'm damn proud of you for standing up for science in such a formal venue!
I also love the irony that you still look like satan even when "cleaned up" XD
stiimuli 7 months ago 2
AronRa is Godzilla....the creationists on the Texas School Board are thousands of fleeing Japanese.
VesusSheist 7 months ago 2
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VesusSheist 7 months ago
When is the Texas School Board meeting on Noah's Ark? These same idiots can testify in support of "Ark Theory".
VesusSheist 7 months ago
Who's the "genius" at 7:55 with proposition about "questions of natural history'?
'History can't be tested", OK, we really don't have time machine, that's true, but we DO see consequences and so we can deduct causes.
I believe what he says of "there's no way to test history" would make any court burst in laughter. While true in it's literary meaning, it contradicts all system of investigation, I mean legal system. He should see at least a couple of "CSI" episodes.
SwineNahNah 7 months ago
18:30
ORGASM!!!
Oh, sorry, it was an intellectual orgasm! Cerebral fluid explodes out my ears as my brain is injected with truth and wisdom!!!
June28July 7 months ago
Great job Aron. I admire your tenacity in the face of such obstinate and willful stupidity.
myrmecophilous 7 months ago 3
You were better than ANYONE that had come before you, period!
squirreljester2 7 months ago
if they had said "gawd dun did iit!" this meeting would be over in 5 minutes!
gotohellgooglization 7 months ago
Aron it's my opinion that what you did that day was admirable.
May you keep up the hard work that is showing creationism's complete absurdities and utter nonsense for many years to come.
Ital21 7 months ago 15
I'm...I mean...but I really think...oh fuck it; YOU NAILED IT ARON!!!!
sherlockmethod 7 months ago
Great job, Aron! Hope you isolate your portion as a separate video.
mjr256 7 months ago
"...what hundreds of scientists know today." - LOL. Creationists are funny. What does that equal? 0.000000001% of all biologists in the world, give or take a decimal place?
mjr256 7 months ago 2
Love it Aron! You're the best, my friend, and great job with the board! I hope you make a difference!
MrTexAtheist 7 months ago
I couldn't watch this. My weakness is that I do not suffer fools.
rjdyou 7 months ago
Hello AronRA :D
Did that guy just say that the Miller/Urey Experiment did not yield any protein? I read they went back and double tested the original samples and found MORE protiene like 20 kinds.
camelotradio 7 months ago
@camelotradio - for info on Miller/Urey, Google "Andy Ellington's blog". He is an evolutionary biologist and his most recent post was on July 22nd, the day he testified at the Texas School Board hearings. Most of the post deals with Miller/Urey.
AlanCFA 7 months ago
@AlanCFA Thank you very much sir :D
camelotradio 7 months ago
I love how the critics of the evolutionary science fail to understand (much less correctly pronounce) even the most basic concepts of evolution biology. Example: "ArrkaoPetrix" 17:08 XD I can't decide if they're clowns in sheep's clothing or sheep in clown suits. But then I remember how political clout these Oopma Loopas have...and then it's not funny anymore. :(
CranesNotSkyHooks 7 months ago 2
How CAN these fuckwits be given such a complete and resounding beating AND still think they're somehow right?
It absolutely boggles the mind!
AronRa for the win!!!!!
steveb0503 7 months ago
Why did the religious people that were assigned to speak, not show up in person?
Gutless, it appears. They won't have to answer any questions if they don't show up. And, the assigned reader won't answer anything either. They know their stuff is bunk.
charlesfloyb 7 months ago
To the creationists.... where is the evidence?.... show me the evidence..... SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE..... lol just jokes, dont want you to waste your time. Remember keep your kids dumb that way they will never know more than you.
BraniusBalki 7 months ago
Damn Aron, you looked good....though I think I still prefer you in leather pants on a harley. Alot more street cred :P
juuonse 7 months ago
you kicked ass in there!
XanthIllion 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why are these people even allow to speak. Don't the people of Texas care about the future of their children.
hemeoncn 7 months ago
Evolution is a fact. Get over it.
kairobinson 7 months ago 2
You might find the following quote interesting. I think it's certainly germane to the discussion.
“Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith… We need believing people.” - Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant
colourmegone 7 months ago
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Plausiblesarge 7 months ago
"Theories should be placed under critical review by high school students" WTF? Most high school students are incapable of thinking rationally, and are still heavily influenced by years of indoctrination from their parents.
FightsWithPreachers 7 months ago
Why are they always picking away at evolution and never bring any evidence to support their own side?
sepiritz 7 months ago
Aron, you're my hero.
Shawnzy 7 months ago 29
perhaps somewhat off-topic but...just a thought...textbooks in general are static and not able to keep up with all the information flow out there...and are therefore not an ideal instrument for learning...but the same can be said of most schools...^^
VIRTLANTIS 7 months ago
Much respect Aron. Very well done, as we have become privileged to expect.
I know I'm not alone in expressing a nerdish fantasy that you might run for, win, and subsequently guide, the TSBOE into an era of excellence. We feel that you could single handedly make Texas a place where children might have an expectation of receiving a valid public education, instead of having to fear a shameful public indoctrination.
Regardless, we need more AronRa's in this world.
Thank you for what you do.
DonQuixotedeKaw 7 months ago in playlist A-4-R 2
fun
JamesTheTank 7 months ago
This is why I am no longer a Teacher in the State of Texas.
SunZen 7 months ago
That was a very strong and necessary presentation you made. Sometimes people tend to adopt a negotiating demeanor or get distracted by divergent points. You stuck it to them. You said what they needed to hear, no punches pulled.
This is great news. Now maybe Texas can get up to the 21st century in science education.
Hell, I would have been happy if they got up to the 20th century!
Astrobrant2 7 months ago
@AronRa could we please have the links to the articles shown at the beginning and end of the video?
toejamonrye 7 months ago
Aron - very nicely done! (of course, so was your original video)
I was so happy to hear that the real science standards were adopted. I am no longer in Texas, but two of my grandchildren are and I have a very large dog in this fight.
AlanCFA 7 months ago
People want to reap the benefits of modern science while simultaneously throwing us back into the dark ages. You can't have both ways. Science in school should be based on good sound up to date science. You can not have unsupported religious ideas taught--if you want to teach the controversy it should get a one minute mention in a modern social studies class and that is it.
finderfinder100 7 months ago
i live in india but im a big fan of yours.. keep up the good work. we have come to the point where we must take a stand against ignorance and religious dogmas. my country is diseased by these dogmas, belief of fairy tales and no wonder it is infested by poverty, hunger, corruption etc. if god existed, country like indian could hav been a heaven cuz we have most hardcore religious ppl in the world but its not. its otherway around.
chinamanspeakenlis 7 months ago
Are you related to our famous Admiral Lord Horatio?
You are just as much of a hero and I hope one day you will have a statue in your honour.
robbo916 7 months ago
10:25 , saying "Goddit" isn't critical thinking, it's an assumed conclusion.
buffdaddy3144 7 months ago
Lol, you can just hear in Aron's voice how he's trying his best to restrain himself. You know he wants to start yelling, smacking creationists, and begin destroying the boardroom. But he did a good job. Congrats to Texas for upholding science.
omgwtflolz 7 months ago
As always - impressive AronRa. Amazed at how you can condense your statement to nothing but factual points without any filler.
bit4man 7 months ago
Well spoken mr, Nelson.
Btw. that suit fits you well.
Smertopia 7 months ago
Thanks Mr. AronRa for knowing about and going to speak before this board and support science education in the state of Texas.
GreatG0dOm 7 months ago
If everyone who believed in Noah's ark and the talking snake weren't allowed to speak it would be a hell of a lot simpler.
HellRehab 7 months ago
Great job AronRa your testimony ROCKED!! Thank you for your many post on the subject.
dragonhlm 7 months ago
To sum up the opposition to evolution, "hurf durf."
vdot011 7 months ago
at what point do we stop calling something a theory and start calling it fact?
AForkSpoon 7 months ago
@AForkSpoon never. the fact is that organisms change through time, specifically allelic frequencies change, the theory explains all the observations and makes predictions
wearestarstuffsagan 7 months ago
@AForkSpoon We don't. Evolution is a fact. It's observable and repeatable. The explaination of observed facts is the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection.
All science can ever give is theory, the explanation.
gamesbok 7 months ago
@gamesbok lol, the guy before you said no theory can ever become fact. Well, ill tell him about how the theory of gravity still has some chance to be false.
AForkSpoon 7 months ago
@AForkSpoon So, the force that holds this very planet we live on, holds the moon in orbit around us, and holds our planet in orbit around our sun, is false? No such force exists? No, Gravity most certainly exists.
Ridleysama 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Ridleysama i am pointing out how pathetic it is, i am on your side lol.
AForkSpoon 7 months ago
@AForkSpoon The funny thing is that a scientific theory is superior to science facts. A scientific theory is a model that explains the facts.
You're confusing theory with its other, much more general definition of theory, which is the same as a scientific hypothesis to which a scientific theory is not.
Ridleysama 7 months ago
@AForkSpoon in science terms a Theory is a well tested explanation of a set of observations. It explains how facts interrelate. A theory doesnt become a fact.
SqueakerAlpha 7 months ago 2
Aron, in your opinion did this meeting leave you with a good or bad feeling about the future of education in Texas?
I for one am definitely on your side. I have family and relatives in Texas, so it hits close to home that they've been trying to make today's youth ill prepared in the name of an ancient desert djinn.
luccaskunk 7 months ago
@luccaskunk "Aron, in your opinion did this meeting leave you with a good or bad feeling about the future of education in Texas?"
The pro-science forces won. From the NCSE website: "Pop the champagne corks. The Texas Board of Education has unanimously come down on the side of evolution. In a 14-0* vote, the board today approved scientifically accurate high school biology textbook supplements from established mainstream publishers — and did not approve the creationist-backed supplements..."
AlanCFA 7 months ago
@AlanCFA holy crap? unanimous? even Mercer? Seriously, a young earth creationist who pushed that nonsense in the first place voted in favor of evolution? The only words I can think of to express my joy right now would sound sarcastic coming from my mouth (being the atheist daughter of a pentecostal preacher) so I won't say them. This gives me incredible hope!
luccaskunk 7 months ago
@luccaskunk It would seem that without Don McLeroy, the creationists are somewhat defanged. They did get something their way, the publisher Holt McDougal has agreed to make some changes
"Holt McDougal agreed, after some resistance, to offer changes in the language it employed in eight instances dealing with evolution concepts. The board agreed to adopt the text after passing a motion asking Scott, the education commissioner, to coordinate the changes with the publisher."
(Baptist News website)
AlanCFA 7 months ago
@AlanCFA What are the changes though?
luccaskunk 7 months ago
@luccaskunk - I've sent you a PM on the changes and some additional information, links, and videos.
Alan
AlanCFA 7 months ago
If the state of Texas simply disappeared, by how much would the average IQ of the United States increase?
ClumsyRoot 7 months ago
@ClumsyRoot Zero. watch?v=zuGr9ENH24U
The average IQ is 100 by definition.
Samuraionthewall 7 months ago
@Samuraionthewall
LOL! True, the average would have to be recalibrated after removing the IQ scores of Texans. But I assume you get my point. :)
ClumsyRoot 7 months ago
And, AronRa calmly bitch-slaps the creationists. Well done!
ametcalf11 7 months ago
Holy shit Aron,how the hell can you sit through this bullshit without wanting to wipe the floor with these idiots?I think you are a better man than I.RKOPTERICKS? Wow! Bring down the hammer,Mr. Ra.Bring down the hammer.Do these Texans realize that a bunch of Chinese scientists are drinking rice wine and laughing their asses off.,before getting back to work on human genetic differentiation for sustained interplanetary travel?
rickuj 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
..now there is this sheet of paper, being read, poorly, word for word, by some bloke who seems to have trouble pronouncing all the long words; and in the text the demand is made that pupils develop critical thinking.
Oh the irony.
Samuraionthewall 7 months ago
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Samuraionthewall 7 months ago
Check out Aron's suit!!
Plus a great testimony in the face if idiocy.
nick260682 7 months ago
This guy is full of crap. This quote would apply here, "That's a stupid thing to say and you're a stupid person for saying it. Everyone that has heard you is just a little more stupid for hearing you."
petphotog 7 months ago
3 sheep.
micometer 7 months ago
Cambrian Explosion, Haeckel's embryos... what the heck? Is that STILL all the YEC's can show? Those creatard misrepresentations have been debunked for decades.
KaroKoenich 7 months ago 4
@KaroKoenich "Cambrian Explosion, Haeckel's embryos... what the heck? Is that STILL all the YEC's can show?"
The guy who spoke about those issues does not have any new material...
He's waiting for Kent Hovind to get out of jail and make a new video.
AlanCFA 7 months ago 5
So after stating a laundry list of facts the best that guy can do is come back on you and try to find a way to define the word 'theory'? Seriously? 'here are the facts', 'Let me counter by playing semantics with words.'
randomjsa 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ganggreensoldier So you're not going to answer my question?
lazyperfectionist1 7 months ago
I love these videos, but it would be awesome if you could do a commentary with these to explain the problems with these arguments for those of us who aren't as well versed in the history of things such as Henkel's Embryos.
gamingguy90 7 months ago
@gamingguy90
Good idea.
nick260682 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gamingguy90 "I love these videos, but it would be awesome if you could do a commentary with these to explain the problems with these arguments for those of us who aren't as well versed in the history of things such as Henkel's Embryos."
DonExodus2 took on Haeckel's embryos when he blasts Casey Luskin of The Discovery Institute
/watch?v=8FajAkmaswc
AlanCFA 7 months ago
RA RA RA for AronRa!!! Thank you for your rational intellectual light in the midst of the religious political darkness that would envelop Texas - as well as the world.
parkarch616 7 months ago 2
Does the act of calling these people out ever do any good?
lazyperfectionist1 7 months ago
THE MAN takes the stand at 18:30
IlovemyGlock21 7 months ago
AronRa (18:36) nails it!
Hugh7777 7 months ago
Science textbooks are written by actual Scientists who hold Ph.D's and other accreditation. Of course they're not going to listen to the state's stupid demands. Even for the money, they wouldn't risk undermining their academic credibility writing BS. That is unless the publishers start accepting authors from Liberty University or something.
wutdaFU3K 7 months ago
This is what happens when the prefontal lobes and the entire neocortex is completely ignored and unused, and only the underlying central cortex bit of jelly is put to use. Thanks for keeping children stunted and underperforming! I'm sure the Chinese will be more than happy to hold their engineers back a few years so our future morons can catch up and be competitive.
gutstotake 7 months ago
they present the embryos but they explain why they are wrong. every argument they make is either mistaken, out of context or outright lies, the outright lies seem to make up the majority of them
wearestarstuffsagan 7 months ago
no shit they dont mention speciation when talking about the peppered moths, it was never meant to demonstrate speciation but ring species are meant to, and DO demonstrate speciation. it seems creationists cant be honest in this day and age
wearestarstuffsagan 7 months ago
AronRa takes the stage and wipes his ass with creationists, Bravo!
jrwilson98 7 months ago
@AronRa Lookin' sexy, Ra.
Eulich 7 months ago
they all just repeat AIG lists.
BillKiernan 7 months ago
High school students are no more equipped to argue and debate the actual controversies in evolutionary theories, than those creationtards are equipped to discuss and debate the effect that Dark Matter will have on interstellar space travel. It takes years and years of learning about complex chemical reactions, not a fucking year or a semester in a fucking class where the teacher may not even have any serious and formal education on the matter or qualifications. Fucking IDtards.
makaisenki 7 months ago
Why did no one point out that discussion of the Miller-Urey Experiment is not related to the discussion of evolution?
How many times must it be said? Abiogenesis and evolution are separate topics.
Clawdragoons 7 months ago 3
Man AronRa rinses! Far more hard hitting and persuasive than the others. Good job, keep up the good work.
ransomdave 7 months ago
Most of this is in Texmurrican English, which even I struggle with.
niriop 7 months ago