13H Refutes CCHR: IOD (Chapter 7) Psychosurgery (2/2)

[cheekyind1996]

what sight did you get the clips from, i want to watch it, i need it for my work please !

[13Heathens]

@cheekyind1996 CCHR offers their propaganda film free of charge, and it can be found scattered around youtube and other sharing sites as well.. where they got the clips from, no clue.

[jlb554344]

I had ect over 20 times.....this was yrs ago.....didnt work for my ....lost all long AND short term memory.....Ill never have electro convulsive torture again!!!

[TMOvids]

It would appear that Limbic Leucotomy is still performed today, though that one procedure alone won't generate that much money.

Although the rest of your videos have been intellectually honest your defence of ECT is the first time you have been deceptive.

800mA isn't a low figure given 50mA can kill a man.

The physical risks of ECT are irrelevant as the cognitive risks are massive.

The immediate confusion is irrelevant as up to sixth months in there are widespread cognitive deficits.

[13Heathens]

@TMOvids "800mA isn't a low figure given 50mA can kill a man."

I remember this one! I spent hours trying to figure out the amperage vs Voltage crap.. So I talked to a friend, who I'm sure explained it all very well... granted it went over my head.. Half the conversation was about wattage and I was completely lost In the end.. The conversation ended with me being shown a lengthy equation and more questions than I stated with.. see the other video comments.

[TMOvids]

@13Heathens Oh right. Fair enough. Ampage is a pretty bad/rough measure, when it gets down to it. 50mA can kill a man, but only really when applied to the heart. The sadomasochist toy you mentioned, is high ampage, but safe, because they aren't going to be applying it to a person's head. When it gets down to it, these things would have to be studied on a case by case basis, and ECT as it is practiced today, is dangerous.

[CrackerXZ]

@13Heathens

Neither amperage nor voltage is the key. Energy is. E=UIt, when E is energy, U voltage, I electric current and t time.

Your video was less propagandistic and probably had it's facts less often wrong than "Industry of death". You seem pretty sure that forcing someone to undergo threatment (possibly with a very low chance of success) is the right thing to do. I don't have a strong opinion about this, but something about the idea is quite discusting.

[13Heathens]

@CrackerXZ Electricity's a complicated thing. I had to kinda wing it on that one.. as I said in a prior reply A friend tried to explain it to me, but It left me more confused than I started.

"Forcing" someone to go through treatment is a tricky area. Shock is a very rare last-resort kind of treatment.. However when it comes to institutionalization it must be proven the person is a danger to them-self or others. I think of it as incarceration (often voluntary) to prevent a crime.

[13Heathens]

@TMOvids Then there's the difference between AC and DC current and the wattage and the... okay my head hurts now, so I should just admit that the majority of sites I got info on ECT from were biased.. but in my defense the ant-ECT sites that I'd been able to find at the time were nearly ALL linked with CCHR, or talked about how it was horrible torture without giving any REAL information.

[TMOvids]

@13Heathens

Heh, I have exactly the same problems. For ECT criticism from someone who is anti-scientology, there is the book "Brain-Disabling Treatments in Psychiatry" by psychiatrist Peter Breggin.

For drug criticism from someone who is anti-scientology, there is the absolutely brilliant book "The Myth of the Chemical Cure" by psychiatrist Joanna Moncrieff.

She's a Brit though so you may find it a bit Brit-slanted.

Sadly both of these people follow the "treatment should be spiritual" line.

[13Heathens]

@TMOvids I've hated every psychiatric drug I've ever been on. I went through a one year program (ages ago) which helped me train my mind and body to recognize and compensate for my (once drastic) mood swings. I've been doing fine without them for nearly 20 years now.

They're a good crutch when you really need to lean on one, but it infuriates me that standard treatment ends there.

[TMOvids]

@13Heathens I would agree with that totally. If someone consensually wants to take drugs in order to enable them to get into a position where they may be able to resolve their problems by other means, then brilliant.

[hate4uall]

so when i was zapped by my toster that was worse :)

[HilanderAK]

the short answer to that one is yes as you toaster runs on 110v 60hz ac current at upto 20amps on the circut. DC current can be far more dangerous but is generally (outside of my field) low amprage as it is the amprage that is the most dangerous part of the current. i work in telco and have no fear as long as the circut is under one amp regardles of voltage but a 48-52v 10,000amp curcut is a truly awsome thing to be feared and respected and i have built many of them

[TroubleMaker12321]

electroshock is still used is still used under highly controlled circumstances. Only for severe cases.

Lobotomies are still practiced on sever cases of epilepsy that are unresponsive to any drugs and are life threatening. It is only used as a last result.

[muaythai234]

Damaging the brain as a "last result". What a LAUGH. The only thing ECT is good for is causing amnesia and suicidal thoughts.

[13Heathens]

Amnesia? Are you talking about the brief, occasional, side effect of memory loss which usually passes within an hour or so?

There haven't been any studies that have shown that etc causes suicidal thoughts. That just silly. It's predominantly used in the cases who are catatonic - often due to severe depression. It's also shown to be 70% effective.

What sources are you using for your info??

[lostinthelandoflies]

A former girlfriend's father was administered with ECT for depression a couple of years ago in Canada. (He did not inform the family until after it was given) "the brief, occasional, side effect of memory loss which usually passes within an hour or so?" still has not happened. I would give you her youtube name...but I need to get her consent first.... }-o. She would tell you something... Ha!

[lostinthelandoflies]

The local mental hospital here gave electric shock treatment to a friend I know because of her depression. (she actually lives with her partner and 4 teenage children in a two bedroom house). Was this the correct treatment? Maybe a bigger house would help.. ;-)

[groupie86]

Awesomemness

[Ackerland2]

Well, from a technical side: the part about voltage is true to some degrees ... it really depends strongly on the strength of the current, the pulse form, and which body parts are subjected to that current. It is my understanding, that the most dangerous current is the one over your heart, which may start ventricular fibrillation.

By the way, current and voltage do have an interdependency. Ohm's law is a linear equation valid for many materials, but let's not get too technical here :)

[Jmbrandon9]

Its a well know fact, Scientology has a fetish for big numbers, hearing 'millions', 'billions' and the rare 'trillions' gives them tight pants...

[Anonymous1075]

My mother in law had ECT after she tried to commit suicide a few yrs ago and its helped her tremendously. To each their own and everyone is entitled to their opinions :)

Althought I really dont like the CCHR LYING about this shit....they can have an opinion but dont fucking LIE about the facts!! Asshats!!

[scrumpmonkey]

bravo, yet another administration of a large dose of reality straight to the brain of the Co$

[deisel1967]

I had ECT 18 times in total. Prior to treatment i was in what's referred to as a catatonic state. I had a few unwanted side effects from ECT such as a headache immediately afterwards & some loss of my short term memory. As 13H points out, modern ECT is nothing like what the CCHR would like you to believe. No broken bones, no violent seizures, no screams of agony. I didn't feel a thing. ECT is/was a last resort but I'm glad it was available & have no regrets for undergoing the treatment.

[soulinite]

Hail Xenu!

[BlueAsbestosCosBlues]

Keep on exposing! this Fictional FEAR induced reality

[NiDeCo]

Fscking crack--pot!

[nunsonabus]

Well done.