this is the STUPIDEST argument i have ever seen ...it's just pathetic they stopped drinking through will power god did not help anyone he does not help anyone and you you sound very uneducated and god has blessed you with a slow annoying slurred voice.
@XxphenominanxX , Wow, You didn't listen then! They had NO willpower, none, zero, naught! Ask the millions of people in this category, or even a doctor and they will tell you the same thing.
Thanks for insulting my voice, and calling me uneducated. I bet I have a higher degree than you do my friend.
Ya, but I know an Atheist alcoholic that quit drinking for a good 11-12 years also, no god was involved in anyway whatsoever, this atheist person I know happens to be my mother. So your proving god video here Fails miserably, Cheers!! You proved nothing by the way.
@sonicgentile Well, yeah...Because you're afraid of what people think and scared of people disagreeing with you...It's not name calling, you just really are cowardly.
If people thought that God existed then they would rely on him more... Therefore it is not obvious that God exists. God cannot be proven. There has never been any proof that any of the tens of thousands of gods have ever existed.
The evidence you have presented sounds to be nothing more then an excuse. You give human beings no credit. It's like your saying " a man who is a work-a-holic whom has acheived nothing in the process will only achieve anything in the hand of God". You exclude the psychology and physiology of the situation the moment you brought religion into the equation. You use religion in a means of filling in the blanks of what you cannot understand yourself.
@Roltz94510 , Your comparison only not applies to the video, but it doesn't even make sense. I didn't bring religion into anything. I brought in the concept of a Higher Power. Believing in God, and Jesus as His Son, isn't religion. I don't fill in any blanks with God my friend. He gets credit for everything!
@sonicgentile Wow?! Did I write this? Interesting! In my personal opinion, AA is useless, the program itself brainwashes people to believing they need God in order to solve their problem. Since we are discussing this I would love to see a creditable statistic showing the success rate approved by professionals. Most information I found only says that AA makes claims and doesn't present a creditable statistics.
no you got that wrong first these people were not hopeless they just had really low will power then it came to drinking and it was not some greater power that stopped them drinking it was themselves. Now some of these people might have needed to believe in something greater then themselves I.E. god, but the thing they are believing in dose not have to be real to have the same effect. So AA dose not prove god, just the power of self delusion.
@fireflygirl246 , Sorry, but you have it wrong. Yes, they are hopeless. Go to an AA meeting and ask for yourself. Some of these people have tried hundreds of times and ways to control their drinking or quit all together. NOTHING worked. It wasn't low will power, it was NO will power when it came to alcohol.
These people could hold any self delusion they wanted, it still didn't stop them from drinking. Only believing in the Real God, and asking him for help, were they able to stay sober.
@sonicgentile maybe you're right, or maybe all they need was the support of others going through the same thing? who can we test this to see if its the case? Well we could look at 12 step programs like AA that include god and then look at secular 12 step programs that dose not include god and compare their success rate. What do you know its seems that 12 step programs work the same if they include god or not, so it seems its not god that helps people at AA, but its the people helping the people.
It would be evidence of a god if this method worked 100% of the time. Any less and I'm not convinced (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence).
dude you never responded to my msg so i decided to look into your vids and this is honestly a very weak argument.
my uncle was an alcoholic he would drink everyday was completely drunk at least 4 out of 7 days a week he said he couldn't stop. till 1 day he was sent to the ER because he drank too much. he then was faced with an ultimatum alcohol or life. he hasn't had a drop in over 3 years and he is not religious at all.
If this was the case, he is not what people in AA refer to as the "hopeless alcoholic"
This type of alcoholic, even given this ultimatum, alcohol or life will still continue to drink, until they die. There is ZERO will power to stop for some reason.
hmm....my frind was an alcoholic but he like stoped drinking frequently...but still has a 40z here and there but hes pretty much stoped, you wanna know how?? he started playing video games....this video has no proof in god at all, and i think you know it to because why else would you disable the ratings? cant you christains pray to get 5 stars?....o well
Giving up alcohol is not a proof of anything. With your logic, if putting faith in God then quiting afterwards = God exists, then quiting without putting faith in God means God does not exist.
Do I see how dumb I am? Wow... I dare you to tell that to the millions of people who could NOT give up alcohol.
I see though, you must be smarter than those few million people.
Your example is quite pathetic. The concept I was conveying was: People found they could not quit no matter what they did. Their only solution was to believe that God could help them quit. And they did. Not just anyone, these people were alcoholics. See "Alcoholic" as defined by the AMA.
Giving up alcohol isn't proof of anything, but more to the point, why hasn't AA actually shown any of their statistics as to how many are able to kick their alcoholic addiction? Find their numbers, actual statistics that prove or show that there are "millions" of people getting off it.
Here, I'll help you by giving you a hint: they don't publish them. Why not? If its so helpful and it works, wouldn't they be shouting at the top of their lungs????
However, there was an internal survey that was conducted in 1989 (it was the only one that could be found by Penn and Teller), and it shows that more than half of the people in the program stay less than 3 months; and that the success rate of AA is rated at 5%. Do you know what the average rate of people getting off of Alcohol by themselves? 5%. AA doesn't do squat.
Well, that's perfectly right, what you're saying, except, that is NOT a proof the existence of God, only the strength of faith. That makes people stop drinking, no matter what they believe in. All they have to do, is believing, that this whatever is with them helping to take the bottle down. From that point of view, you're reasoning is absolutely false.
P.S.: I'm an atheist, so you should ask me first, what my life is like, for instance. Do you think I drink every day. Do you think I feel powerless? Ask me, what I believe in! And other atheists. I know some of them, and I can assure you, that they're wonderful people.
Ok.... I didn't go into details... but simply believing that God can cure you doesn't work! The only way the hundreds of thousands of hopless alcoholics were able to stop drinking was when they "TURNED THERE LIFE OVER TO GOD." Asking God what His will was for there lives.
And your PS - Not everyone is an alcoholic. Odds are your not. You can drink whenever you want and stop whenever you want. In fact, some former atheists are glad their alcoholic. It led them to finally finding God.
What I'm talking about is not a SIMPLE BELIEF. What I was talking about was a worldview (well, sort of). You didn't see my point.
I know, what you meant. That the ones with the lack of believing in God have no moral value. I totally disagree. People loosing their faith, because they disappoint in the activities of the churches, priests and religous people. Of cours, there are exceptions, like I myself. I stopped believing, because I seek rational answers. That's that simple. Do you see now?
AA and alcoholics is your proof of god? So, using your own theory, if the alcoholic put their faith in Satan, Allah, Odin or any other entity that is accepted by others, and was cured, that would prove the existence of that entity. This is a joke right! you are not serious? Your argument, or statement holds no water and makes absolutley no sense. You may as well say that if you believe in mario and luigi, that they exist, and santa, the tooth fairy etc. etc.. Your gonna have to do better!
Well... Im sorry but it's not a joke. And the hundreds of thousands of people's lives who were saved would say it's not a joke as well.
.... um are you joking about mario, luigi, santa, the tooth fairy... I'm saying to proves the existence of a high power, who I choose to call God, and for me I believe it's Jesus.
In regards to the alcoholics, Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying!
My first question to your statement... "Most people I know who have stopped drinking aren't religious in any way."
Where they the type of alcoholic that is refered to as "the hopeless alcoholic"? I'm sure you don't quite understand what that means. These people cannot stop no matter what.
Sure, you can rationalize the amazing proof God exists. But, please, if God is pulling at your heart... look into it!
Sure, there's also hundreds of thousands of people addicted to hard drugs that can't stop. But it has been proven, that if the alcohol consumption is replaced with playing videogames is CAN actually cause people to stop drinking. Isn't suddenly believing in god to quit an addiction using him regardless, which the bible states is wrong/sin in which case he wouldn't help you anyway?
Alcohol is a drug. They stop drinking by countering the addiction, perhaps with a strong life-controlling belief (such as god), but some alcoholics also turn to hard drugs rather than alcohol. Any alcoholic can stop drinking when engrossed in something else, which also statistically includes videogames.
Yes, Alcohol is a drug. And the same program works for people addicted to drugs as well. However, your statement,
"Any alcoholic can stop drinking when engrossed in something else, which also statistically includes videogames."
Not true! As stated in the video, there is a variety of alcoholics, that cannot stop no matter what. Go to an AA meeting, ask around, there are hundreds of thousands of people who will confirm this.
It's great that AA works well, but I don't see it as proof of God's existence. It works, not because of God, but because the way it is written (similar to the Bible) is very powerful at indoctrinating people. As an atheist, I will never dispute the literary power of the Bible, but I will also never regard it as anything besides fiction. It's a powerful story, but that's about it.
this is the STUPIDEST argument i have ever seen ...it's just pathetic they stopped drinking through will power god did not help anyone he does not help anyone and you you sound very uneducated and god has blessed you with a slow annoying slurred voice.
XxphenominanxX 5 months ago
@XxphenominanxX , Wow, You didn't listen then! They had NO willpower, none, zero, naught! Ask the millions of people in this category, or even a doctor and they will tell you the same thing.
Thanks for insulting my voice, and calling me uneducated. I bet I have a higher degree than you do my friend.
sonicgentile 5 months ago
Ya, but I know an Atheist alcoholic that quit drinking for a good 11-12 years also, no god was involved in anyway whatsoever, this atheist person I know happens to be my mother. So your proving god video here Fails miserably, Cheers!! You proved nothing by the way.
sandcut1 8 months ago
I love how the ratings are disabled. Typical Christian coward.
sweetlolitacookies 8 months ago
@sweetlolitacookies, I disabled the ratings, and that makes me a coward? Name calling is so childish, grow up buddy.
sonicgentile 5 months ago
@sonicgentile Well, yeah...Because you're afraid of what people think and scared of people disagreeing with you...It's not name calling, you just really are cowardly.
sweetlolitacookies 4 months ago
If I was an all knowing being such as God the first thing I would do is create a species and provide them a planet that's 75% salt water.
marrs20 10 months ago
If people thought that God existed then they would rely on him more... Therefore it is not obvious that God exists. God cannot be proven. There has never been any proof that any of the tens of thousands of gods have ever existed.
railroadtrash09 11 months ago
The evidence you have presented sounds to be nothing more then an excuse. You give human beings no credit. It's like your saying " a man who is a work-a-holic whom has acheived nothing in the process will only achieve anything in the hand of God". You exclude the psychology and physiology of the situation the moment you brought religion into the equation. You use religion in a means of filling in the blanks of what you cannot understand yourself.
Roltz94510 1 year ago
@Roltz94510 , Your comparison only not applies to the video, but it doesn't even make sense. I didn't bring religion into anything. I brought in the concept of a Higher Power. Believing in God, and Jesus as His Son, isn't religion. I don't fill in any blanks with God my friend. He gets credit for everything!
sonicgentile 1 year ago
@sonicgentile Wow?! Did I write this? Interesting! In my personal opinion, AA is useless, the program itself brainwashes people to believing they need God in order to solve their problem. Since we are discussing this I would love to see a creditable statistic showing the success rate approved by professionals. Most information I found only says that AA makes claims and doesn't present a creditable statistics.
Roltz94510 1 year ago
no you got that wrong first these people were not hopeless they just had really low will power then it came to drinking and it was not some greater power that stopped them drinking it was themselves. Now some of these people might have needed to believe in something greater then themselves I.E. god, but the thing they are believing in dose not have to be real to have the same effect. So AA dose not prove god, just the power of self delusion.
fireflygirl246 1 year ago
@fireflygirl246 , Sorry, but you have it wrong. Yes, they are hopeless. Go to an AA meeting and ask for yourself. Some of these people have tried hundreds of times and ways to control their drinking or quit all together. NOTHING worked. It wasn't low will power, it was NO will power when it came to alcohol.
These people could hold any self delusion they wanted, it still didn't stop them from drinking. Only believing in the Real God, and asking him for help, were they able to stay sober.
sonicgentile 1 year ago
@sonicgentile maybe you're right, or maybe all they need was the support of others going through the same thing? who can we test this to see if its the case? Well we could look at 12 step programs like AA that include god and then look at secular 12 step programs that dose not include god and compare their success rate. What do you know its seems that 12 step programs work the same if they include god or not, so it seems its not god that helps people at AA, but its the people helping the people.
fireflygirl246 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thats a pathetic attempt.
You havent proved anything
podoau 1 year ago
It would be evidence of a god if this method worked 100% of the time. Any less and I'm not convinced (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence).
Riff625 1 year ago
please stop trying to proove god is real or not real.... isn't faith the beauty of it?
imaguyinshortslol 2 years ago
this video is to prove to atheist people.GOD is real.
CaptainxCrayola 2 years ago
dude you never responded to my msg so i decided to look into your vids and this is honestly a very weak argument.
my uncle was an alcoholic he would drink everyday was completely drunk at least 4 out of 7 days a week he said he couldn't stop. till 1 day he was sent to the ER because he drank too much. he then was faced with an ultimatum alcohol or life. he hasn't had a drop in over 3 years and he is not religious at all.
fear drives us all not god
cheddar07 2 years ago
If this was the case, he is not what people in AA refer to as the "hopeless alcoholic"
This type of alcoholic, even given this ultimatum, alcohol or life will still continue to drink, until they die. There is ZERO will power to stop for some reason.
sonicgentile 2 years ago
hmm....my frind was an alcoholic but he like stoped drinking frequently...but still has a 40z here and there but hes pretty much stoped, you wanna know how?? he started playing video games....this video has no proof in god at all, and i think you know it to because why else would you disable the ratings? cant you christains pray to get 5 stars?....o well
xxphatknightx 2 years ago 2
lol... if that's the case, he's not what people in AA refer to as the "hopeless alcoholic"
Watch it again... don't make up your mind before you watch it though this time. :)
sonicgentile 2 years ago
Giving up alcohol is not a proof of anything. With your logic, if putting faith in God then quiting afterwards = God exists, then quiting without putting faith in God means God does not exist.
See how dumb you are? Give up.
TheInvaderBN 2 years ago 2
Do I see how dumb I am? Wow... I dare you to tell that to the millions of people who could NOT give up alcohol.
I see though, you must be smarter than those few million people.
Your example is quite pathetic. The concept I was conveying was: People found they could not quit no matter what they did. Their only solution was to believe that God could help them quit. And they did. Not just anyone, these people were alcoholics. See "Alcoholic" as defined by the AMA.
sonicgentile 2 years ago
Giving up alcohol isn't proof of anything, but more to the point, why hasn't AA actually shown any of their statistics as to how many are able to kick their alcoholic addiction? Find their numbers, actual statistics that prove or show that there are "millions" of people getting off it.
Here, I'll help you by giving you a hint: they don't publish them. Why not? If its so helpful and it works, wouldn't they be shouting at the top of their lungs????
ChairmanKiel 2 years ago
However, there was an internal survey that was conducted in 1989 (it was the only one that could be found by Penn and Teller), and it shows that more than half of the people in the program stay less than 3 months; and that the success rate of AA is rated at 5%. Do you know what the average rate of people getting off of Alcohol by themselves? 5%. AA doesn't do squat.
ChairmanKiel 2 years ago
I think you are dumb invader hahaah
jillmill52 2 years ago
Quote: "I think you are dumb invader hahaah"
Yeah?.. and why is that?
TheInvaderBN 2 years ago
I think you are a fake account Jillmill52. Let me guess, are you. . . Sonicgentile?
ChairmanKiel 2 years ago
Well, that's perfectly right, what you're saying, except, that is NOT a proof the existence of God, only the strength of faith. That makes people stop drinking, no matter what they believe in. All they have to do, is believing, that this whatever is with them helping to take the bottle down. From that point of view, you're reasoning is absolutely false.
Wladek89HU 3 years ago
P.S.: I'm an atheist, so you should ask me first, what my life is like, for instance. Do you think I drink every day. Do you think I feel powerless? Ask me, what I believe in! And other atheists. I know some of them, and I can assure you, that they're wonderful people.
Wladek89HU 3 years ago
Ok.... I didn't go into details... but simply believing that God can cure you doesn't work! The only way the hundreds of thousands of hopless alcoholics were able to stop drinking was when they "TURNED THERE LIFE OVER TO GOD." Asking God what His will was for there lives.
And your PS - Not everyone is an alcoholic. Odds are your not. You can drink whenever you want and stop whenever you want. In fact, some former atheists are glad their alcoholic. It led them to finally finding God.
sonicgentile 3 years ago
What I'm talking about is not a SIMPLE BELIEF. What I was talking about was a worldview (well, sort of). You didn't see my point.
I know, what you meant. That the ones with the lack of believing in God have no moral value. I totally disagree. People loosing their faith, because they disappoint in the activities of the churches, priests and religous people. Of cours, there are exceptions, like I myself. I stopped believing, because I seek rational answers. That's that simple. Do you see now?
Wladek89HU 3 years ago
huh?
sonicgentile 3 years ago
AA and alcoholics is your proof of god? So, using your own theory, if the alcoholic put their faith in Satan, Allah, Odin or any other entity that is accepted by others, and was cured, that would prove the existence of that entity. This is a joke right! you are not serious? Your argument, or statement holds no water and makes absolutley no sense. You may as well say that if you believe in mario and luigi, that they exist, and santa, the tooth fairy etc. etc.. Your gonna have to do better!
EchosFromaBlankMind 3 years ago
Well... Im sorry but it's not a joke. And the hundreds of thousands of people's lives who were saved would say it's not a joke as well.
.... um are you joking about mario, luigi, santa, the tooth fairy... I'm saying to proves the existence of a high power, who I choose to call God, and for me I believe it's Jesus.
sonicgentile 3 years ago
In regards to the alcoholics, Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying!
My first question to your statement... "Most people I know who have stopped drinking aren't religious in any way."
Where they the type of alcoholic that is refered to as "the hopeless alcoholic"? I'm sure you don't quite understand what that means. These people cannot stop no matter what.
Sure, you can rationalize the amazing proof God exists. But, please, if God is pulling at your heart... look into it!
sonicgentile 3 years ago
Sure, there's also hundreds of thousands of people addicted to hard drugs that can't stop. But it has been proven, that if the alcohol consumption is replaced with playing videogames is CAN actually cause people to stop drinking. Isn't suddenly believing in god to quit an addiction using him regardless, which the bible states is wrong/sin in which case he wouldn't help you anyway?
acrylic93 3 years ago
Please site that study, which claims video games, can stop the "hopeless alcoholic"
sonicgentile 3 years ago
Did you watch the video, it isn't just believing, it's turning your will and your life over to God.
Any link to that study again?
sonicgentile 3 years ago
Alcohol is a drug. They stop drinking by countering the addiction, perhaps with a strong life-controlling belief (such as god), but some alcoholics also turn to hard drugs rather than alcohol. Any alcoholic can stop drinking when engrossed in something else, which also statistically includes videogames.
acrylic93 3 years ago
Yes, Alcohol is a drug. And the same program works for people addicted to drugs as well. However, your statement,
"Any alcoholic can stop drinking when engrossed in something else, which also statistically includes videogames."
Not true! As stated in the video, there is a variety of alcoholics, that cannot stop no matter what. Go to an AA meeting, ask around, there are hundreds of thousands of people who will confirm this.
sonicgentile 3 years ago
It's great that AA works well, but I don't see it as proof of God's existence. It works, not because of God, but because the way it is written (similar to the Bible) is very powerful at indoctrinating people. As an atheist, I will never dispute the literary power of the Bible, but I will also never regard it as anything besides fiction. It's a powerful story, but that's about it.
leifey 3 years ago