The Case Against Neal Adams: The Adams Model

[lc44906]

Oy vey! Blah, blah, blah...

[alexgibb9000]

have a shave, you look ridiculous!

[tekubus]

Ya stutterin prick, ya!

[alexgibb9000]

@tekubus he looks so stupid too, take a shave muppet

[robehne]

You are pure garbage. You have false information here about Neal's model. You are a moron who likes to talk like you're smart. It takes the eye of an artist with knowledge of several different sciences to see the proof. You do not have this. Neal's model is based on scientific data and published works from several qualified scientists.

People, please don't listen to this garbage video.

[TheMachineBiological]

If I have any false information concerning Neal's model, it was taken from his website. Except that Neal doesn't claim to have mastered any field of science, and seems to have really weird problems with nearly every discipline. Whether or not I lack artistic vision remains to be seen, but unless you can back up your argument by giving me the data, and the names of the scientists you refer to, your argument has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.

[Dracopol]

@robehne Hi, Neal!

[NeilAnthony69]

@robehne I agree! As someone said to me today concerning other people like him: He's just another flea on a dog, trying to be the dog.

[Dracopol]

@robehne Hi, Neal! You are well known to adopt several aliases to try to make it seem people agree with you. I keep asking and asking how the Earth gained 8 times its mass in 200 million years and you just censor me out of your video comments. But you can't censor the whole Internet, and I say you are a kook and a crank.

[waycooltoo]

"Im not a real scientist, Im an artist and I dont look at it the way... I look at it, I study all the sciences, I study every aspect of science but I dont study it technically. I dont do the math or all the rest of it. So I just kind of skim the surface of it." -Neal Adams 7/12/06 interview with New England Skeptical Society

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..." -Albert Einstein

[zysis]

Φ

ironic, isn't it?

complete with poles

Know what it is? You should. It's the formula, the solution, the theory and the answer. Earth shrinking?!?! lol... oh crap you are serious!

[BrutusCass]

You have convinently skip top ups of incoming matter, and the forces acting on the earth. it is spinning in a vaccum after all. And re,member mass is not the same as size.

[TheMachineBiological]

I don't think I skipped those topics, so much as I didn't consider them. I may do another video on the topic that better summarizes the case against the expanding earth model.

[yorrike]

The upper estimate for the total mass of incoming meteoritic material is 150000000 kg (1.5 x 10^8 kg) per year.

Times that by the 4.5 billion year history of the Earth and you get a total infall of 6.75 x 10^17 kg. Sounds like a lot. That's 675 million billion kg, or 675,000,000,000,000,000 kg.

But that amounts to 0.00000001% of the mass of the Earth (5.973 x 10^24 kg). i.e, it's insignificant.

[TheMachineBiological]

Exactly, that kind of growth, even over cosmic timespans, is as you say, insignificant. There are a lot of questions that expanding earth proponents seem to constantly fail at answering. They also seem to like to ask the same ones over and over, even after getting the same answer over, and over.

[danschaoticmind]

@BrutusCass Lucky for us then that the force of gravity is the dominant force in the universe rather than a vacuum (Which is simply the ultra low density of atomic structures) eh?

[Lily2U1515]

@danschaoticmind why is gravity referred to as the weak or weakest force?, I know I'm replying to an old comment you made, and I'm not a proponent of Neal Adams, I'm just asking based on your comment.

[danschaoticmind]

@Lily2U1515 Because, while it has a great distance effect, its' total effects are not enough to affect molucular structure, and so on. Furthermore, its effects weaken over distance. Finally, it's effects are easiest cancelled out when compared to the other forces. Easiest example is the pin and the magnet. That being you put a pin on a magnet and hold it so that the magnet is pin side down. The electromagnetic force overcomes gravity. So too does the strong and weak atomic forces.

[Lily2U1515]

@danschaoticmind thank you so much for the information, I find this fascinating. i did not pay attention as well as I should have in school, years ago. thanks again!

[BrutusCass]

Wait just one minute, please tell me how an Athiest can truly be a true scienist? No offence meant here but if you think deeply you will see the conflict! If you truely want to be a science then you must be open to question and not only others but above all yourself. All that said, I do believe that the expanding earth concept is not an invention of this Neil chap.

[TheMachineBiological]

I know this is a very late response, but I didn't even know that people were still responding to these older videos. I state in more recent videos that I am Agnostic to the concept of god, but I am and Atheist with regards to the gods that mankind has invented. I see no more evidence for the Christian god than I do Zeus, or Thor. I do need to, and I try to be open, but no so open my brains fall out and I abandon reason for blind faith. I know it's not Neil's model.

[Xoranium]

Maybe it would have been more interesting if you had posted the text from which your reading. Oh btw its not Neal Adam's theory. When the CERN reactor goes "live" in Swiss/France the Mass from the Energy will be realised. Then you will see the obviousness of the fact not theory about cross dimensional links between universe's and how all stella matter "Grows" in mass

[canuck1980]

why are you talking like a robot?

[TheMachineBiological]

Because this was one of my first videos and there was quite a bit of information I had to go over.

[Kaaawa2000]

I've been going through all the debunker's videos here...

This one, like most of the others, is very hard to watch/listen to.

Strikes me odd that only bozos seem interested in arguing with Neal. I haven't seen anyone with any credibility speak up yet... just L'il Abner types and graduates of the University of Bonghit...

Compared to any other explanation, to me the videos Neal has produced are very credible.

[TheMachineBiological]

I'm rather surprised and confused at the same time. A comic book artist with no scientific background or training, obsession with the perception (read belief) that his model is the truth, and just a little shy on the critical thinking skills is MORE qualified AND credible than a skeptical, scientifically literate, critical thinking, research performing college student? You must inhabit a very different reality from my own if my comment in any way reflects your opinion. I am hardly a bozo.

[MyOtherBeaver]

will all these "scientists" apologise to Neal when the s@*t hits the fan?

hmmmm.....

[Dracopol]

@Kaaawa2000 That's only because you ARE Neal, using multiple spam aliases to try to create a "buzz" about a silly theory.

[Gamble2185]

good luck buddy

[TheMachineBiological]

Thanks.

[senatorped]

Earthquakes are evidence of subduction? I stopped watching at that point.

[brianxsmallwood]

Well, I have to say that I really liked the video. One probably I had with Mr.Adams expanding earth is that like you said, this is a planet of dirt and metal. The core is molten lava. So, to expand, the core would have to shrink. And that would mean a weak magnet field which in turn wouldn't be good for life on earth.

What do you think?

[TheMachineBiological]

I think you have a lot of the core elements in place as to why Neal Adam's model doesn't work you just have them a little confused. In order the for the earth to be expanding one has to ignore the fact that it is cooling, and in fact, shrinking. You are right, if the earth was expanding the core would have to actually expand, which would change the electro-magnetic properties of inner and outer core, potentially weakening the magnetic field of the planet to the point where life couldn't exist.

[wavepsychic]

@ 5:53 you show from Neal site "The surface is 10 miles thick of granite". Then you say he can't know if it's 10 miles thick. Then you say that you know that the core is molten & shrinking. You can't know these things either! There is no prof of the earth shrinking & NOBODY knows what the core is like or even if there is a core, no one dug down that far. Sure there is lava at some level but a core... No. Earth quakes are no evidence of subduction & where is your proof of any convection currents?

[TheMachineBiological]

Okay, kind of like how I responded to another individual I want to know why I have to lay everything out for you? Open a high school geography text book, type subduction in google, look up the earth in wikipedia or the encyclopedia, all the data is there, gathered by scientists who know what they are doing. If you, Adams, or any other fruitcake have evidence to support YOUR ideas which attempts to contradict established theory, show us. Do the research, ask me what I think about a point...

[TheMachineBiological]

because I am willing to do a five second internet search, or even days worth, if the point has any validity or interest.

[ericv00]

We use sonar and collect seismic data to probe for information on our planet's interior. Scientists are not stupid. As TMB said, open at least any high school level Geology book if you have any intention to learn about the subject. Your ignorance on the subject (and Neal's) is not evidence against plate tectonics.

TMB did NOT say Neal "could not know it is 10 miles thick". He said he is either ignorant of the facts or not presenting his data (now why would Neal withhold relevant data?).

[wavepsychic]

I am sorry to upset some of you but I could no longer believe in Pangea. I will continue to research both sides of the argument however it doesn't seem logical that the plates are pulled a crossed the earth & crash to create Mountains, or alter shape or sizes to smash in Paleontology related facts. There IS NO Pangea on other planets. How do you explain that? Other planets have different laws of physics? There is spreading on Mars. The Mairs on the moon can only be explained by Neal logically.

[ericv00]

"Pulled" and "crashed" are words that help people get a very basic understanding of the processes, but they are not accurate words to describe what is actually happening.

"No pangea on other planets" Which planet(s) are you refering to? Gas giants, which do not have a solid surface based on their composition and size, or like Mars, which has cooled too much for this process to occur due to its smaller size?

You may not THINK all of this has been considered and accounted for, but it has.

cont.

[ericv00]

I whole heartedly support your continued researching. Do not take this the wrong way, but you have a few major misunderstandings. And let me just say that Neal is the last person to give you the straight facts about Physics and Geology.

I am totally serious about starting with a high school textbook (physics and geology), because you do need to have a reset on what you think you know on the subject, then look up the citations in those books.

[wavepsychic]

A lot of the things you said to me were pretty harsh. I no longer care about "Theories" or "stories". Science has become a new religion, where people are slaughtered if they do not share the same point of view as you. I shall empty thy mind and start at the very beginning with ONLY Provable Facts. After the accumulation of the Facts I will allow myself to draw my own conclusion. Lastly I shall keep it to myself & not try to convert others to my point of view. In Truth and Light ~Louis

[ericv00]

Nothing I said was meant to be harsh. I had to unlearn a lot of what I thought I knew about Cosmology when I started REALLY learning about it, because I had fundamental things wrong with my understanding. Because I had the basics wrong, little of the details I was learning made sense. I, too, thought that the field was largely speculation. But once I reset my brain on the subject and learned it anew, everything started falling in place very parsimoniously.

cont.

[ericv00]

The progression and detail of scientific discovery is relevant to how accurate a provable fact is. Just be sure to go in depth on what facts you consider and how they were discovered for retention on the subject. This is a big issue with Neal, he uses cherry-picked bits of data (that are usually anomalous) and omits the massive amounts of data counter with what he wishes to support.

Lastly, I am not here to "convert" anyone. I just hate to see people under false impressions of science.

[TheMachineBiological]

Well, I'm sad I looked away and missed all of this great conversation. Eric, thanks for words of wisdom and support. I'm very much like you in that I don't like to see people walking away with a misunderstanding of the facts, or in the case of Adams I don't like a pseudo-pseudo-scientists/comic book illustrator distorting the actual facts established by a couple of hundred years of solid science. Anyway, I'm heading over to your page and subscribing in addition to my, once again, thanks.

[ericv00]

Heh, much appreciated, but I don't have any videos of my own.  (Perhaps I will someday...)

[nealadamsdotcom]

TheMachineBiological You don't like?

Don't you mean that you disagree? You may feel protective about your religion and it's beliefs, but if I present evidence and conjecture against these beliefs, you may privately dislike, but you must 'PUBLICLY' disagree! What you "LIKE" or "DISLIKE" colors all your arguments with personal bias. How can they then be respected? 1. The "MOSTLY" basaltic crust is more like 7 miles thick, while the continental plates are between 30 to 70 km thick.

[TheMachineBiological]

Since YouTube is a public forum, and as one can gauge from the content and tone of my video, I do publicly disagree with your concept. I am an atheist I have no religion. If it is science that you suggest I feel protective of know this, ideas created through science are subject to change and are therefore unworthy of emotional attachment. Science as a means of acquiring knowledge is perhaps the greatest tool I have ever learned to use and I respect its methodology.

[TheMachineBiological]

I'm not exactly sure where you get the impression that I either like or dislike your concept, I (and the bulk of the scientific community) just disagree completely. I may be wrong with my statement concerning the thickness of the oceanic crust and I concede that possibility. I am sometimes wrong, I am human after all. But your figure of 30-70 km thick for continental plates is also quite wrong as Mount Everest at it's tallest is only 8.9 KM above sea level and you just said 7 miles or...

[TheMachineBiological]

11.3 KM rounding up, added together just over 20 KM, but maybe I'm missing something.

So my summary, sir, is that I do disagree. Also, as the one proposing the "theory" it is up to you to offer up evidence supporting your "theory." Since you're video's and web page present no data or facts to support your claim that I could find, and the standard model has thousands of papers supporting it I think you have an uphill battle against all but the gullible and uneducated.

Thanks for your reply.

[nealadamsdotcom]

TheMachinestBiological You do not represent the "BULK OF THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY" in any way, shape or form! You are alone in YOUR PARTICULAR OINION. ... Especially when you SAY I am "QUITE WRONG", and use 'above sea level' as your example! Incredible. Look, I forgive you. You are not the first to let your emotion speak before you can 'look something up'. This is common language for me and I have been studying this for well over 35 years. Just check it out before you write, o-kay?

[nealadamsdotcom]

TheMachine Biological. In that case , you have chosen the wrong words to express your objection. Be that as it may, you further assert that your "beliefs" are not religious in nature, but "created through science". Yet the REAL scientific evidence shows there is NO DEEP OCEANIC PLATE older than 180 MYOld, and IT sits there, UNSUBDUCTED.. but your religious (Baseless) FAITH/THEORY tells you that the DemonThatIsEarth devoured its OWN ANCIENT OCEANIC SKIN, magically not missing a SQUARE INCH.

[wavepsychic]

That is very good that you can "go back" and relearn things. I am still not for pangea but who cares its not like the earth is going to stop existing just because we don't know how it got here. I do not believe what they say about India. I never will. but oh well it is fine I am onto more important things in my life.

[ericv00]

This is not about "how Earth got here". It is about processes occurring RIGHT NOW.

"I do not believe what they say about India. I never will." So, no matter what the evidence, you just won't accept the scientific assessment regarding India? That is very sad indeed.  It seems you ARE only interested in stories and not the facts...

WHY (this is important) will you "never" believe what they say about India?

[ericv00]

You also indicate that this is not important in your life, yet you value the search for truth enough to comment in the first place. Knowing how the world REALLY works IS important, all too important. It is those who give only a passing glance at world effecting systems that endanger the world with ill-conceived practices, or do you also not believe in global warming, irreversible oceanic damaging (and general ecological damaging), ozone depletion, etc.?

Knowing the truth IS important.

[wavepsychic]

The facts are Paleontology in nature & about how India was connected to Africa. It can't break off to form Mountains & thats the only reason they say it did. My intuition is telling me not to believe then. Just like I will never believe what they say about Miranda (a moon of Uranus).

[ericv00]

"My intuition is telling me..."

Well that kinda says it all, doesn't it?

Intuition is great for making immediate assessments, not in making INFORMED assessments. I do hope you don't trust everything to intuition, it is such a narrow perception of existence... ...and often inaccurate. (intuition told early man that the Earth was flat and the sun orbited the Earth)

In any case, I wish you the best in finding the facts. Open-mindedness is a virtue.

[wavepsychic]

Hello Eric. Let me first state the things I do agree with you on. Open-mindedness is a virtue. It isn't wise for people to trust only there intuition.

I would have to say that you do not really understand intuition. Using the right side of the brain & the left is whole brain thinking. It is more dangerous to use only the left side then only the right side. It was perceptions of cognition (lift side) that created the illusion the world was flat. Mayan psychics knew the world as round. Peace

[ericv00]

I have yet to see a legitimate psychic. I am not sure that that is what you mean. If it is, then I will tell you that Mayans knew much about the celestial bodies because they had great COSMOLOGISTS who studied them at great depth.

"Psychics" use trickery, vagueness, and (ironically) KNOWLEDGE to give the illusion of something more to their audience. Ever heard of James Randi?

[ericv00]

You are right in that both sides of the brain are needed for a full view of anything, but intuition (as I mean it) is not akin to precognition or whatnot. If that is your line of thought than I am not sure there is anything for me to say further.

I use "intuition" as a first impression or an immediate reactionary assessment to a situation or subject. I certainly do not espouse to the idea of the supernatural.

I apologize if I have misread into your use of the word "psychics"

[nealadamsdotcom]

The MachineBiological HOWEVER there is NO PROOF WHAT-SO-EVER that the basaltic oceanic ever existed as cooled SURFACE CRUST past 180 MYA. There is religious belief but not one bit of evidence. Saying it is not proof. Pointing out reams of 'papers' is not proof. Finding small out of the way areas of remaining unsubducted DEEP crust would be proof. Ancient fish fossils older than 100 MYO in deep oceanic plate would be proof. Magnetic stripping etc. Your religion has had 40 years to provide

[ericv00]

Nice to see your attitude is consistent, Neal. You ad hom and still have presented no evidence for the hypothesis you support.

[TheMachineBiological]

James Randi is my freaking hero!

[ericv00]

Yeah, I wish there were more people like him. Or is there and I don't know of them?

You know, that is a good idea, I am going to do a search on psychic debunking and see what names come up often...