Thinking about this makes me go crazy because both possibilities seem impossible to me. Its inconceivable to me that time is infinite, but logically it couldn't have had a beginning either because what happened before the beginning? Nothing? Absolute true nothing also seems inconceivable, and even if it was, how would something come from nothing? (If this sounds like an argument for God, its not, I'm atheist)
For Penrose our Universe in its initial condition of being much smaller in size than an atom was actually the expanded Space of a previous Universe which failed to keep track of its size (it didn't realize it was incredibly so big thus becoming infinitesimally so small in size) because the photons (what remained of its matter) in it were massless & unable to keep track of time required to be able to measure its scale. This is an incredibly good theory because it is crazy enough!
@zmyboo -- you all are as well on the same question as us. lets say your bible was right and reality coincided with it (which it doesnt). then you yourself would have to answer (where did god come from).
therefore your statement is a contradiction of itself.
@3lem3ntZ The Bible does coincide with reality. God doesn't "come" from any where. The term "come" is related to time. He invented time space and matter. He was "here" before everything. We cannot fully comprehend God in a physical sense because He is so much greater. This is the only "world" or "life" that us humans know of because we were born into it. So to describe Him in any way out side of this physical world is difficult, sometimes impossible because we dont know the outside.
i believe there are metaphysical aspects to the universe that cannot be comprehended by the human mind. the way we see the universe may not be how it really is. what our brains perceive as real may not be real at all. there are things among us that cannot be perceived by our manner of perceiving.
@iandavidson1 Well how can anything come from nothing, do you have any suggestions? The very basis of physics wouldn't make any sense, we would live in a chaotic universe.
@shinystarlet I wish I had the brain power of Stephen Hawking, but I don't. But if nothing comes from something, then, may be the reverse is true. It's the Sherlock Holmes thing; if you take away everything that can't be true (God-Aliens etc) then what's left must be the answer, even if it sounds a looks imposible. I wish I had a brain :)
@iandavidson1 Yeah I sometimes wish that too ;-) I think that our universe definitely didn’t come from nothing. But what about the place where it did come from? It may be a place where the physical constants are randomly created for the universes, no one can say for sure. Either way the question of the beginning of everything hasn’t been answered, so your idea might, in the end, be as true as any other ;-) But I think that we still know so little, that we simply cannot exclude everything else.
Scientists try to understand the universe and how it all started or if it always existed and how it works. Yet they don't fully understand how gravity works.
@MrTheblackmessenger my facts are perfecly fine. They dont understand how gravity works at "a 100%" And they have theories.But theories are not facts.
God says, from the beginning it was void and God says; Let there be light and there was light and God spirit moved upon the face of the water and in the firmament of heaven." How, so difficult for man to under the meaning of "void." to something." Even a third graded can understand that."
@SoldierOfLight1 I'm not jumping about. There is no way you could know that 'God' is eternal via observation or empirical data. So I know you got that idea from religion, I asked you how you 'know' that god is eternal. In regards to humility, you shouldn't presume you know about my background. The bible is internally inconsistent, contradicts scientific research, and isn't based on rationality. Creationism, Noah's flood, etc are absurd stories that contradict rationality and scientific inquiry
@strangestdude - I think you should check out a bit more on the flood story - lots of cool scientific evidence supporting it (maybe not the ark - but definitely the flood) as far as creationism goes, I higher evolved being could make us believe what ever it wants us to believe - the media pretty much does it now anyways. The most irrationally thought I think humans have come up with is that the sun (some thing with no intellect) is responsible for all our intellect (and future intellect)
@sobpatrick God drowned every man women and child, who wouldn't listen to a drunk. And then 2 of every animal from different parts of the planet - approx 1 and a 1/2 million species, survived for 8 months without food. And then the animals travelled back to their own eco system and reproduced in large numbers successfully even though their descendants genes would be too close, and would result in genetic deformities? /watch?v=I225Vcs3X0g You're grossly simplifying evolution.
@strangestdude the flood story sounds crazy eh..? All those animals on one ship - with no food - for eight months - here's a crazier one - all the animals everywhere and everything else in the universe coming from nothing for no reason in a trillionth of a second (shake well, add some lightening and bake foe 13.75 billion years) out pops New York City - as far as the flood goes - most parts of the worls had major floods at the end of the ice age - check out the Ryan Pitman Theory
@sobpatrick "all the animals everywhere and everything else in the universe coming from nothing for no reason in a trillionth of a second" That is a gross simplification of the gradual formation of the universe, also no physicist believe it cam from nothing. It didn't 'pop' up. Also there is evidence supporting it. There is NO EVIDENCE supporting every non-aquatic and aquatic animial (approx 1 and half million) being taken aboard a boat, by a 600 year old man Check this out; /watch?v=I225Vcs3X0g
Scientist, trying to figure out whether time existed in the beginning of creation.They just waisted their whole life, looking for answers and the answer is in front of their nose.If they are so genius, all they need to do, is look into the Bible Genesis 1:1-3. No, wonder, it will take them for billions years, before they reached out another galaxy."
"IT WAS VOID AND DARKNESS, THUS TIME DID NOT EXIST."
The earth was without form, and [void]; and [darkness] was upon the [face] of the [deep].
@strangestdude I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it. He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also (he hath set the world in their heart), so that (no man) can find out the (work) that (God maketh from the beginning to the end). "I know that there is no good in them." Ecclesias 3:10-12."
This mad scientists, will never know the beginning of his creation.They are so preposterous, they will never, ever know, what is "nothing" means....
@strangestdude Well technically something could be eternal if time became irrelevant or was stopped such as at the speed of light. Now these are just theories, but they can be proven some what...but I don't know the real answer. However, anybody talking about the big bang has to have faith that their data and observations are right just as someone has to, to believe in God. I mean you can say this is how it happens but you weren't there which means you could be wrong.
@lattask8er you've presented hypothesis not theories. The big bang is a scientific theory (partially) meaning it has vast amounts of scrutinized evidence supporting it. I recommend; A briefer history of time by Stephen Hawking (don't get a BRIEF history of time) and Cosmos by Carl Sagan. /watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk /watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E
@strangestdude I've seen Cosmos by Carl Sagan, and I'm not trying to prove anything wrong but as a scientist it seems hard for me to say something doesn't exist or there is not evidence to support something so it is irrelevant. Just look at the amount of scientist looking for life when there really isn't much evidence to say there is any out there, especially any advanced life. You have to be prepared to accept all circumstances no matter how odd.
@lattask8er The books good too. Yeah it's cool to be open minded but just as long as people are honest it's a hypothesis. I think it's probable there is life on other planets, due to evidence that there are billions upon billions of planets in the universe and the odds that another planet in the universe would have life isn't irrational, but I agree it's still a hypothesis. I'm open to the idea of a higher power and am interested in near death experiences, but it's personal conjecture.
@strangestdude personally i read old and new testament and the quran, only in quran i didn't find any contradiction (i read it in arabic, i'm a translator so i know well arabic) but i agree with you about 40 days and 40 nights which is scientifically impossible and it is said it was a wordly flood, but in quran there isn't this 40 days and 40 nights and it is said only in one region which is possible that there was a flood in one region, as we know tsunamies....
@darklightraven I'm an apostate from Islam. Islam is contradictory look the the youtube channles therationalizer and CEMBadmins, they'll point of the inconsistencies of Islam to you. Also check out theramintrees and evid3nc3's youtube channels for a respectful and intelligent critiques of religion. How do you know God said he was eternal?
@darklightraven -- if thats the case then your input into any debate or field of study is meaningless, you are a useless human being to the advancement of human kind. You completely lack everything that is needed to be a beneficial human being.
your best asset is believing and having blind faith.
Not one credible idea put forward by the leading brains on this.Well not one any A level student could come up with anyway.They just don't know and probably will never know because the concepts are too much for even the smartest human brains.
I think the issue most people have is with religion and not God - evolution and abiogenesis 100% support the existance of higher (much higher) power - albeit an evolved one. According to abiogen - life should have evolved on hundreds of billions of planets billions of years prior to ours - so what's the hang up on a God?? The paradox with this is that the concepts of evolution and abiogen are constructs of our intellect and likely inapplicable to a being a couple billion years advanced
@sobpatrick Because it begs the question what created God. Abiogensis is about organic matter coming from inorganic matter, that doesn't support the existence of a supreme sentient being because it begs the question again... what created God. Evolution is the process of how organic matter changed through random mutation, how does that support the existence of God? Why is there a need to assert the existence of God? If God exists surely we'll discover it with earnest inquiry via science?
@strangestdude the question of "what created God" is like the question " why wont the cockroach leave my house when I've asked it nicely to leave" I don't think the cockroach understands our concept of maners - maners simply do not apply to cockroaches - You can only apply human concepts and expect human results from humans - creation/science/discovery - only mean something inside the human mind - As far as evolution - it actually doesn't seem random at all - if it were - we would devolve
@sobpatrick No the question what created God is legit, it's simply that religious/spiritual people don't believe in evidence, they play around with concepts to great a coherent concept of a being they ultimately claim the don't understand. Where did you get the idea that 'god' is eternal from? "We would devolve." There are random mutations that cause physical impediments, and cognitive problems (ie. retardation). The reason why they don't proliferate is because people don't mate with them.
@sigmofloyd I will admit there is a severe god delusion in your brain that is obviously imperfect and thus negates the existence of a perfect creator. Go pray to a man nailed to a stick and troll the christian message boards where they don't notice you are the fool.
@sigmofloyd Also, they are branes as in membranes. Not brains. They are very specific about that in the video and even spell it for you. Yet you still fail to grasp it? Religion moot your critical thinking much?
this idea come to me one day while i was having dinner at home, i was eating cheese... but not sweet cheese, it was hard cheese...jaja the key is inside the cheese.......jeje
try to find something material to generate the start point is ridicolus, i'ts imposible to find it, i think all appear from a spark of neecesity, It can't be all nothing or all something, it must exist this 2 posibilities, this is the reason of all. our system of thinking is our limitation, it's a nonsese to know the age of the universe, because this has existed always and never at the same time, our idea of time don't let us to see this concept, the problem is we create wrong questions.
1000 years from now cosmologist would be looking at these documentaries and laughing at our ignorance just like we were laughing off the speculations of simplistic aristotle / plato about the nature of the world. i was i was born 1000 years later :(
@The1O1man Cosmological Time equivalent to Zeno's Paradox? You've opened up a new can of worms, sir. A can with a finite number of worms who's length is infinite. I was just about to go to bed but now I can't. Hope your proud of yourself :P (all in good fun)
One of the things that they have all failed to realize is the limitation of the knowledge that we can acquire through our senses. The fundamental problem is that we since we do not exist outside of the universe, and were not there before inflation, we fail to come up with a "satisfying" explanation.
i just worked out when he said 'we will come up with a theory which would be more satisfying'. Well thats the problem, human ego gets in the way and tries to demand awnsers
this is like little kids fuckin around trying to work out something they have no idea about! i mean really, the answer cant be found by adding more numbers!
there are 2 kinds of human being, ones who want to know the truth and the ones, who don't care and get on with their livesas long as they something to eat.
there are 2 kinds of human being, ones who want to know the truth and the ones, who don't care and get on with their life as long as they something to eat.
theoretical science always bring up a mess of more questions, until it becomes a spaghetti of even more questions, and then it becomes a clash of ego bound arguments. Very exhausting.
Turoks theory has one major flaw...........the postulation of the element of movement to facilitate the branes coalescence...........Michael Jude, author THIRTEENTH APOSTlE: THE COMING TRANSUBSTANTIATION
we will never never know how it all started b/c i heard and heard that hey, we started from a previous universe. ok, so how was the previous universe started? ooh, yeah another prior universe --> do you get the picture? Believe me I want to know, but it's seems like a lost case..
Did any of you see that Horizon programme that said that the Big Bang, and the origins of our universe, was caused by two other 3D universes colliding in the 4th Dimension. It had several of the characters we see in this show, including Michio Kaku and Neil Turok.
there is always the start of anything ,,, and this confirms that there is god .. god made everything .....u see when there is a rule there is outrule and this confirms it ..
m-theory does seem like a slight of hand that evolved with no supporting evidence. If one thing is proven false it would have made all the time spent evolving the theory in vain.
The only scientifically viable universe model is one that is cyclical and everlasting; no beginning of time and matter. Otherwise you run into paradoxes of cause and effect: what caused that? And that? And that?
Would we EVER be able to understand? Aren't we just two little fish swiming in a fish bowl? Uncapable of seeing far enough into the world out of it to make up our mind about how its like and why it exists, having not enough information to have the OVERVIEW of the whole situation. A maize maze is simple, when seen from above, when you have the overview, but when you're inside, every corner is the same and you get horribly lost. And we cannot find a hill so we can overview the WHOLE problem!
@Emrys93 God? Why a God? My pet leprechaun who's sitting on my shoulder says he created the universe. When I asked Jimmy who created him, he said "Don't get smart with me, son. If I can find pots of gold at the end of rainbows I don't need a $%#@ing beginning!". Checkmate scientists.
@Occidentally I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not because I'm tired but if your serious, to answer your question, because there was a start of everything and a higher being, or God, and that is the best answer we have for the beggining. And sure, we don't understand where He came from, but something tells me something that has the ability to create our universe (or multiple universes) is something we don't understand anyways.
@Occidentally I find it funny you are using the pot of gold that science has given you to tell science how irrelevant it is. More like the ladybird book of chess.
@Occidentally There is nothing that will explain why there is something rather than nothing. Even if we prove that there was something before the Big Bang that doesn't actually mean much. Something coming from nothing = information/ law that lets that be true.
@plExEFile The earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And, the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. God said, Let there be light: and there was light. GEN 1:1-3."
In the book of Genesis, God explained it very detailed. In the beginning, the earth was void and empty and also, the deep space was in total darkness (the universe). Thus, time did not exist. Then, "Spirit of God" moved upon the face of the earth and in the firmament of heaven.
@plExEfile These, genius professor will take them for billions of years, before they can get to their answer. Thus, accomplishing, nothing." Because, they don't believe in God, who is the creator of all life and created the universe." Yes, they will never predict anything nor will able to know the beginning of creation. Professing, themselves to be wise, but they all became fools and their heart was darkened."
@Emrys93 Dude, you know what is outside of space-time...? LITERAL Nothing. It doesnt exist. and even if it did.... it has nothing to do with us. If theres a place, theres space.
@Yahweigh God lives in the supernatural realm. There are many scriptures which tell us of his nature. He told us he had all the necessary requirements for a first "uncaused" cause about 3500 years before philosophy told us said requirements. St. Augustine, in the 300s, thought that God existed outside of time and space, and this was 1900 or so years before space-time was even discovered. Revolutionary thoughts that came (as somewhat of an impossibility) well before their time. Supernatural.
@Yahweigh First off, I meant 1600 years when I said 1900 years. As far as the claims, it is easy. Just read the Bible and research St. Augustine, and then research Einstein. You can come up with everything I said in under an hour with google. Nice try on the burden of proof ploy though.
@Yahweigh Also when I said "He told us he had all the necessary requirements for a first "uncaused" cause about 3500 years before philosophy told us said requirements," the He is referring to God in the Bible. Also I think it would be a good thing to research philosophies of time and when people held to the different theories, like classical Newton time and Einstein's space-time.
@Yahweigh What? Thats not my point at all. My point is this, when you give yourself a chance to believe, everything about Christianity, God, when Jesus says "I am the way the truth and the life" makes perfect sense, it fits, the veil is taken off your eyes and though the the physics of the beginning of the universe is a fun thing to think about, It's unnecessary. The real thing to think about is what were the physics of the creation account, or when did physics start. That would be cool!!!
@Emrys93 The more i look at the bible ect... the less convinced i am...
Why does an omnipotent being choose to speak through man??? Knowing that this would fail to convince most people? Also Knowing that most ppl would die never even hearing of this book? Explain?
I think it's healthy for science to have some "radicals" creating alternative theories to the ones receiving the most attention. If someone is able to disprove it then it's just more exploration into the subject at hand. Better than dedicating all our energies to one theory that might get disproved down the road anyway.
@vegasnegas111 Unrealistic, but isn't that how every great theory starts out? Like quantum mechanics, or a heliocentric solar system, or even the world being round.
@vegasnegas111 I can agree with that. I think it's pretty absurd, but you never know, it might wind up being proven as at least partially correct in the future. Science is exciting like that.
@vegasnegas111 How can you say the membrane theory is ridiculous? If it's correct, we can calculate everything that's happening, as opposed to the other theories defying the laws of physics at one point or another.
@bellaKohler I'm not saying that quantum mechanics is unrealistic, I'm saying that a theory consisting of "two brains colliding together to create the big bang" cannot grasp my senses in a realistic approach. And when I mean unrealistic I'm talking about if these two brains came from nowhere then we must be the by product of membranes that were just floating around in 3 dimensions. We might as well say that they were fat flaps from an obese individual's arm flapping around to create matter.
Can someone help me understand how mathematics works. When you do these calculations its all based on units of measure like seconds, years, meters, whatever. We invented these measures, we decide how long a second really is right? So how does that effect the mathematics? Does it not matter?
@Ender0410 Perhaps if we lived on another planet our days/hours/etc would be different, but the amount of time passed would be the same. we didn't invent these measures, we just gave them names, we decided to divide the amount of time it takes the earth to rotate on it's axis into 24 equal units of time (called an hour) and divided the hour into 60 equal units, and so on in both directions. it's like how music theory is just fancy names for how sound waves vibrate.
@Ender0410 We did invent them, but we realised they were meaningless unless their units could be linked to fundamental constants in nature.
That's why a second is defined as:
"the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom"
All other measures are then linked with each other. Example: A meter is = Light (constant) going this far in a second. The maths are then built around them.
whose to say the multiverse has the same law of maths as ours? and if it had different laws I guess we may never know that much until we can somehow go there eons from now.
So ridiculous. Have these scientists never read Kant or Schopenhauer? There IS no object without a subject. You cannot start with the object and then say "we evolved from nothing which began at a point in time." Time and space are forms of OUR perception. You cannot have a big bang without someone to call it a big bang. And that's the problem. The universe as WE know it begins when WE begin, when the information begins - and information we get from our senses - therefore, neurons.
Just because they existed a long time ago, doesn't do their credibility for defining the universe much good. That, and they arent even scientists. Go home
You can't be serious? This isn't putting the scientists down in any sense. They're simply asking the wrong question. It's like saying "When did time begin?" Beginnings presuppose time. You don't have to be a scientist to "find this out."
@MikieBBB2007 I think calling it "ridiculous" is quite a bit strong, and philosophy is just a very different approach to hard science, both are often at odds and might better be reconciled. You do have a point there, and an interesting one - if you're saying they're asking the wrong question, I'm wondering what you'd suggest might be the right question?
@Daemonique You're certainly correct about "ridiculous" being strong.
The right question would involve any question about causes and effects pertaining to objects. This is the basis of science. But science doesn't just "exist" - it starts from the human mind and therefore makes philosophical assumptions, one of them being materialism. This leads to great things within its realm, no doubt - but the assumption isn't completely necessary.
So "right" questions are questions that make sense.
@bigfletch8 Except that it's based on what we see and can demonstrate. Religion is just one guy making a bunch of statements that can't be tested and a load of people believing it because he says so. Religious diversity is present despite the facts, cosmology is diverse because of the facts.
So it would appear, but what do 'you' see. As Roger Penrose demonstrated, what he 'saw' five years ago (by his efforts, which 'others' believed), he now sees differently.
You cannot 'see' truth. The limitation of the human receptivity to the light spectrum alone 'demonstrates' that fact.
@bigfletch8 The fact that Mr Penrose can demonstrate to others why his beliefs changed based on observations of nature and mathmatical models seperates him from religion where beliefs are founded on blind faith. His beliefs even if inaccurate are objective and accurate enough to have utility. The same can't be said of religion.
@bigfletch8 No they are not. All these beliefs about cosmology at the moment are all justified based on the observable facts one day one of these beliefs will gain enough facts that it will be deemed for practical purposes to be true at which point it will become knowledge.
Religious beliefs on the other hand are never justified or true and are thus incapable of becoming knowledge and yeild no practical benefit. Beliefs are valid or invalid based on what they yeild.
I have one question. Is it possible for things to be completely unknown to us? Could there be an event that created a situation that we could never know cause and effect?
Thinking about this makes me go crazy because both possibilities seem impossible to me. Its inconceivable to me that time is infinite, but logically it couldn't have had a beginning either because what happened before the beginning? Nothing? Absolute true nothing also seems inconceivable, and even if it was, how would something come from nothing? (If this sounds like an argument for God, its not, I'm atheist)
Hellblazer311 3 months ago
This is infuriating. I can't find part 1 anywhere! Anyone know where it is?
macthesuperhero 3 months ago in playlist What Happened Before the Big Bang 2010 BBC horizon
For Penrose our Universe in its initial condition of being much smaller in size than an atom was actually the expanded Space of a previous Universe which failed to keep track of its size (it didn't realize it was incredibly so big thus becoming infinitesimally so small in size) because the photons (what remained of its matter) in it were massless & unable to keep track of time required to be able to measure its scale. This is an incredibly good theory because it is crazy enough!
csdr0 5 months ago
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csdr0 5 months ago
I like Prof. Sir Roger Penrose's idea. :)
medviation 6 months ago
Scientist will be searching for the answer until the world ends, unless they get some sort of light bulb realizing God was "In the beginning..."
zmyboo 6 months ago
@zmyboo -- you all are as well on the same question as us. lets say your bible was right and reality coincided with it (which it doesnt). then you yourself would have to answer (where did god come from).
therefore your statement is a contradiction of itself.
3lem3ntZ 5 months ago
@3lem3ntZ The Bible does coincide with reality. God doesn't "come" from any where. The term "come" is related to time. He invented time space and matter. He was "here" before everything. We cannot fully comprehend God in a physical sense because He is so much greater. This is the only "world" or "life" that us humans know of because we were born into it. So to describe Him in any way out side of this physical world is difficult, sometimes impossible because we dont know the outside.
zmyboo 5 months ago
@3lem3ntZ ...to put it better, we don't know the life or world outside of time space and matter. That is where God resides.
zmyboo 5 months ago
Best. Theory. Ever (the last one)
fateswarm1 6 months ago
COOL VID! Lovely day watchin and readin scribblin eqautions Pysics and Cosmology while listenin to inspirin music. Bliss!
mysticlawlotus 6 months ago
i found a link to part 5
/watch?v=rT4LdPzB9Ic
enjoy :)
CarjackBob 6 months ago 10
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CarjackBob 6 months ago
Where's 5/6???
MuskPumpkin 6 months ago
5/6?
Ermal8711 6 months ago
What happened to part 5/6?
jkonowe 6 months ago
i believe there are metaphysical aspects to the universe that cannot be comprehended by the human mind. the way we see the universe may not be how it really is. what our brains perceive as real may not be real at all. there are things among us that cannot be perceived by our manner of perceiving.
mstrchldrn 6 months ago
question: why can't something come from nothing? any sensible answers please.
iandavidson1 6 months ago
@iandavidson1 Well how can anything come from nothing, do you have any suggestions? The very basis of physics wouldn't make any sense, we would live in a chaotic universe.
shinystarlet 6 months ago
@shinystarlet I wish I had the brain power of Stephen Hawking, but I don't. But if nothing comes from something, then, may be the reverse is true. It's the Sherlock Holmes thing; if you take away everything that can't be true (God-Aliens etc) then what's left must be the answer, even if it sounds a looks imposible. I wish I had a brain :)
iandavidson1 6 months ago
@iandavidson1 Yeah I sometimes wish that too ;-) I think that our universe definitely didn’t come from nothing. But what about the place where it did come from? It may be a place where the physical constants are randomly created for the universes, no one can say for sure. Either way the question of the beginning of everything hasn’t been answered, so your idea might, in the end, be as true as any other ;-) But I think that we still know so little, that we simply cannot exclude everything else.
shinystarlet 6 months ago
Scientists try to understand the universe and how it all started or if it always existed and how it works. Yet they don't fully understand how gravity works.
kitsune2222 6 months ago
@kitsune2222 get you facts right scientists understand perfectly how gravity works but they are not sure about its origins .
MrTheblackmessenger 6 months ago
@MrTheblackmessenger my facts are perfecly fine. They dont understand how gravity works at "a 100%" And they have theories.But theories are not facts.
kitsune2222 6 months ago
how can there is still people that take this creationism and the bible as a fact and deny all scientific explanation .
maybe the world does the deserve the apocalypse if people cant still grasp such an easy definition of the universe...
Spartann666 6 months ago
Is it time for the layman (me) to throw out "a brief hostory of time" ?
pilotmonkey 6 months ago
I NEED THAT PUZZLE. WHAT IS IT CALLED????
federer4life 6 months ago
@federer4life the wooden puzzle is a kind of Burr puzzle, see Mechanical_puzzle on wikipedia
macthesuperhero 3 months ago
God says, from the beginning it was void and God says; Let there be light and there was light and God spirit moved upon the face of the water and in the firmament of heaven." How, so difficult for man to under the meaning of "void." to something." Even a third graded can understand that."
jegjegod 7 months ago
@SoldierOfLight1 I'm not jumping about. There is no way you could know that 'God' is eternal via observation or empirical data. So I know you got that idea from religion, I asked you how you 'know' that god is eternal. In regards to humility, you shouldn't presume you know about my background. The bible is internally inconsistent, contradicts scientific research, and isn't based on rationality. Creationism, Noah's flood, etc are absurd stories that contradict rationality and scientific inquiry
strangestdude 7 months ago 10
@strangestdude - I think you should check out a bit more on the flood story - lots of cool scientific evidence supporting it (maybe not the ark - but definitely the flood) as far as creationism goes, I higher evolved being could make us believe what ever it wants us to believe - the media pretty much does it now anyways. The most irrationally thought I think humans have come up with is that the sun (some thing with no intellect) is responsible for all our intellect (and future intellect)
sobpatrick 7 months ago
@sobpatrick God drowned every man women and child, who wouldn't listen to a drunk. And then 2 of every animal from different parts of the planet - approx 1 and a 1/2 million species, survived for 8 months without food. And then the animals travelled back to their own eco system and reproduced in large numbers successfully even though their descendants genes would be too close, and would result in genetic deformities? /watch?v=I225Vcs3X0g You're grossly simplifying evolution.
strangestdude 7 months ago
@strangestdude the flood story sounds crazy eh..? All those animals on one ship - with no food - for eight months - here's a crazier one - all the animals everywhere and everything else in the universe coming from nothing for no reason in a trillionth of a second (shake well, add some lightening and bake foe 13.75 billion years) out pops New York City - as far as the flood goes - most parts of the worls had major floods at the end of the ice age - check out the Ryan Pitman Theory
sobpatrick 7 months ago
@sobpatrick "all the animals everywhere and everything else in the universe coming from nothing for no reason in a trillionth of a second" That is a gross simplification of the gradual formation of the universe, also no physicist believe it cam from nothing. It didn't 'pop' up. Also there is evidence supporting it. There is NO EVIDENCE supporting every non-aquatic and aquatic animial (approx 1 and half million) being taken aboard a boat, by a 600 year old man Check this out; /watch?v=I225Vcs3X0g
strangestdude 7 months ago
Scientist, trying to figure out whether time existed in the beginning of creation.They just waisted their whole life, looking for answers and the answer is in front of their nose.If they are so genius, all they need to do, is look into the Bible Genesis 1:1-3. No, wonder, it will take them for billions years, before they reached out another galaxy."
"IT WAS VOID AND DARKNESS, THUS TIME DID NOT EXIST."
The earth was without form, and [void]; and [darkness] was upon the [face] of the [deep].
jegjegod 6 months ago
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@strangestdude I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it. He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also (he hath set the world in their heart), so that (no man) can find out the (work) that (God maketh from the beginning to the end). "I know that there is no good in them." Ecclesias 3:10-12."
This mad scientists, will never know the beginning of his creation.They are so preposterous, they will never, ever know, what is "nothing" means....
jegjegod 6 months ago
@strangestdude Well technically something could be eternal if time became irrelevant or was stopped such as at the speed of light. Now these are just theories, but they can be proven some what...but I don't know the real answer. However, anybody talking about the big bang has to have faith that their data and observations are right just as someone has to, to believe in God. I mean you can say this is how it happens but you weren't there which means you could be wrong.
lattask8er 6 months ago
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strangestdude 6 months ago
@lattask8er you've presented hypothesis not theories. The big bang is a scientific theory (partially) meaning it has vast amounts of scrutinized evidence supporting it. I recommend; A briefer history of time by Stephen Hawking (don't get a BRIEF history of time) and Cosmos by Carl Sagan. /watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk /watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E
strangestdude 6 months ago
@strangestdude I've seen Cosmos by Carl Sagan, and I'm not trying to prove anything wrong but as a scientist it seems hard for me to say something doesn't exist or there is not evidence to support something so it is irrelevant. Just look at the amount of scientist looking for life when there really isn't much evidence to say there is any out there, especially any advanced life. You have to be prepared to accept all circumstances no matter how odd.
lattask8er 6 months ago
@lattask8er The books good too. Yeah it's cool to be open minded but just as long as people are honest it's a hypothesis. I think it's probable there is life on other planets, due to evidence that there are billions upon billions of planets in the universe and the odds that another planet in the universe would have life isn't irrational, but I agree it's still a hypothesis. I'm open to the idea of a higher power and am interested in near death experiences, but it's personal conjecture.
strangestdude 6 months ago
@strangestdude personally i read old and new testament and the quran, only in quran i didn't find any contradiction (i read it in arabic, i'm a translator so i know well arabic) but i agree with you about 40 days and 40 nights which is scientifically impossible and it is said it was a wordly flood, but in quran there isn't this 40 days and 40 nights and it is said only in one region which is possible that there was a flood in one region, as we know tsunamies....
darklightraven 5 months ago
@darklightraven I'm an apostate from Islam. Islam is contradictory look the the youtube channles therationalizer and CEMBadmins, they'll point of the inconsistencies of Islam to you. Also check out theramintrees and evid3nc3's youtube channels for a respectful and intelligent critiques of religion. How do you know God said he was eternal?
strangestdude 5 months ago
@strangestdude to answer how we know god is eternal, it is simply cause we are believers and believe what God says :)
darklightraven 5 months ago
@darklightraven -- if thats the case then your input into any debate or field of study is meaningless, you are a useless human being to the advancement of human kind. You completely lack everything that is needed to be a beneficial human being.
your best asset is believing and having blind faith.
3lem3ntZ 5 months ago
@3lem3ntZ oh mr i know everything spoke :D get a life little bug
darklightraven 5 months ago
@3lem3ntZ and yes almost all the parts of this document have been deleted from youtube.
darklightraven 5 months ago
@SoldierOfLight1 How do you know God is eternal, based on the bible? How do you know the bible is true?
strangestdude 7 months ago
Not one credible idea put forward by the leading brains on this.Well not one any A level student could come up with anyway.They just don't know and probably will never know because the concepts are too much for even the smartest human brains.
Thensolomonsaid 8 months ago
I think the issue most people have is with religion and not God - evolution and abiogenesis 100% support the existance of higher (much higher) power - albeit an evolved one. According to abiogen - life should have evolved on hundreds of billions of planets billions of years prior to ours - so what's the hang up on a God?? The paradox with this is that the concepts of evolution and abiogen are constructs of our intellect and likely inapplicable to a being a couple billion years advanced
sobpatrick 8 months ago
@sobpatrick Because it begs the question what created God. Abiogensis is about organic matter coming from inorganic matter, that doesn't support the existence of a supreme sentient being because it begs the question again... what created God. Evolution is the process of how organic matter changed through random mutation, how does that support the existence of God? Why is there a need to assert the existence of God? If God exists surely we'll discover it with earnest inquiry via science?
strangestdude 7 months ago
@strangestdude the question of "what created God" is like the question " why wont the cockroach leave my house when I've asked it nicely to leave" I don't think the cockroach understands our concept of maners - maners simply do not apply to cockroaches - You can only apply human concepts and expect human results from humans - creation/science/discovery - only mean something inside the human mind - As far as evolution - it actually doesn't seem random at all - if it were - we would devolve
sobpatrick 7 months ago
@sobpatrick No the question what created God is legit, it's simply that religious/spiritual people don't believe in evidence, they play around with concepts to great a coherent concept of a being they ultimately claim the don't understand. Where did you get the idea that 'god' is eternal from? "We would devolve." There are random mutations that cause physical impediments, and cognitive problems (ie. retardation). The reason why they don't proliferate is because people don't mate with them.
strangestdude 7 months ago
edward scissor hands made the universe then?
neil182sr 8 months ago
so what created those brains, and what created that galaxy so far far away, just admit there is a god!
sigmofloyd 8 months ago
@sigmofloyd So what created god??
neerajmjj 8 months ago
@sigmofloyd True scientist cant prove big bang theory completely, but you also cant prove god exist,
neerajmjj 8 months ago
@sigmofloyd I will admit there is a severe god delusion in your brain that is obviously imperfect and thus negates the existence of a perfect creator. Go pray to a man nailed to a stick and troll the christian message boards where they don't notice you are the fool.
dhubbard55 8 months ago
@sigmofloyd Also, they are branes as in membranes. Not brains. They are very specific about that in the video and even spell it for you. Yet you still fail to grasp it? Religion moot your critical thinking much?
dhubbard55 8 months ago
this idea come to me one day while i was having dinner at home, i was eating cheese... but not sweet cheese, it was hard cheese...jaja the key is inside the cheese.......jeje
manolodelano 8 months ago
try to find something material to generate the start point is ridicolus, i'ts imposible to find it, i think all appear from a spark of neecesity, It can't be all nothing or all something, it must exist this 2 posibilities, this is the reason of all. our system of thinking is our limitation, it's a nonsese to know the age of the universe, because this has existed always and never at the same time, our idea of time don't let us to see this concept, the problem is we create wrong questions.
manolodelano 8 months ago
This video is like the universe in that it shows the same shots over and over again...
iLeavePennies 8 months ago
1000 years from now cosmologist would be looking at these documentaries and laughing at our ignorance just like we were laughing off the speculations of simplistic aristotle / plato about the nature of the world. i was i was born 1000 years later :(
Dathinkingman 8 months ago
what's that puzzle they're all working on?
andrew49247 8 months ago
@The1O1man Cosmological Time equivalent to Zeno's Paradox? You've opened up a new can of worms, sir. A can with a finite number of worms who's length is infinite. I was just about to go to bed but now I can't. Hope your proud of yourself :P (all in good fun)
ahhhhjjjj 9 months ago
One of the things that they have all failed to realize is the limitation of the knowledge that we can acquire through our senses. The fundamental problem is that we since we do not exist outside of the universe, and were not there before inflation, we fail to come up with a "satisfying" explanation.
Emaniac69 9 months ago
god created all us his children through a big bang...with who we dont know
STATUSthesleepers 9 months ago
i just worked out when he said 'we will come up with a theory which would be more satisfying'. Well thats the problem, human ego gets in the way and tries to demand awnsers
NinjaDeathTeddy 9 months ago
this is like little kids fuckin around trying to work out something they have no idea about! i mean really, the answer cant be found by adding more numbers!
NinjaDeathTeddy 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
there are 2 kinds of human being, ones who want to know the truth and the ones, who don't care and get on with their livesas long as they something to eat.
wansabeng8194 9 months ago
there are 2 kinds of human being, ones who want to know the truth and the ones, who don't care and get on with their life as long as they something to eat.
wansabeng8194 9 months ago
What happened before the big bang? The world will never know, because you and I were never there. There. Crisis solved.
dirtynuke 9 months ago
@Mr0Unknow the GOD is the CREATOR of all things even life, He is the first Being no one create Him.
pogsx69x 9 months ago
@Mr0Unknow the GOD is the CREATOR of all things even life, He is the first Being no one create Him.
pogsx69x 9 months ago
Be Mine (with lyrics) - Xbreed Supersoul
csegul1 9 months ago
there all great idea's
FIGHTFANNERD3 9 months ago
our brains r the future and past was time time plus brain EQUAL infinite
3dsisbeastlol 10 months ago
kid buu created the universe
VanMedia 10 months ago
@VanMedia wrong u fail kid buu distroy's universes
FIGHTFANNERD3 9 months ago
the answer is simple.... baby jeeesus xD
1919dpg 10 months ago
the answer is baby jeeesus xD
1919dpg 10 months ago
theoretical science always bring up a mess of more questions, until it becomes a spaghetti of even more questions, and then it becomes a clash of ego bound arguments. Very exhausting.
ronny0ragtroll 10 months ago
@ronny0ragtroll thats science people argue
FIGHTFANNERD3 9 months ago
Of course, the only logical answer is that Jesus did it ;)
newfagscanttrif0rce 10 months ago
@newfagscanttrif0rce They are trying to understand how God did it! haha
er1cw 10 months ago
@er1cw
Not sure if serious.
newfagscanttrif0rce 10 months ago
Turoks theory has one major flaw...........the postulation of the element of movement to facilitate the branes coalescence...........Michael Jude, author THIRTEENTH APOSTlE: THE COMING TRANSUBSTANTIATION
mjtf1113 10 months ago
21 years ago, THIRTEENTH APOSTLE: THE COMING TRANSUBSTANTIATION clearly explains exactly what happened before any assumed bang...big or small
mjtf1113 10 months ago
we will never never know how it all started b/c i heard and heard that hey, we started from a previous universe. ok, so how was the previous universe started? ooh, yeah another prior universe --> do you get the picture? Believe me I want to know, but it's seems like a lost case..
Yoga1978 10 months ago
1:20 Edward Scissor-Hand :)
micol018 11 months ago
Oops, I spoke too soon. He's just doing that bit again now.
benthejrporter 11 months ago
Did any of you see that Horizon programme that said that the Big Bang, and the origins of our universe, was caused by two other 3D universes colliding in the 4th Dimension. It had several of the characters we see in this show, including Michio Kaku and Neil Turok.
benthejrporter 11 months ago
there must be a god
people !! think with ur brains ..
there is always the start of anything ,,, and this confirms that there is god .. god made everything .....u see when there is a rule there is outrule and this confirms it ..
Mr0Unknow 11 months ago
@Mr0Unknow no you make no sense my friend give up on the god thing
FIGHTFANNERD3 9 months ago
@FIGHTFANNERD3 so what do u think made this ?!
there must be a creature one only creature made this .. think before u speak
Mr0Unknow 9 months ago
m-theory does seem like a slight of hand that evolved with no supporting evidence. If one thing is proven false it would have made all the time spent evolving the theory in vain.
derekrhode 11 months ago
still doesn't answer my question...I guess we will never know until we pass over to the other side
minhador 11 months ago
The only scientifically viable universe model is one that is cyclical and everlasting; no beginning of time and matter. Otherwise you run into paradoxes of cause and effect: what caused that? And that? And that?
DoctorFrogger 11 months ago
good debate...at one they must agree, let see when?
kmmaran 11 months ago
i love science documentaries where they pin two leading ideas against eachother and have them backed up by the leaders in their field.thats good tv.
jimmyti9cer 11 months ago
This is fascinating.
technicallyabsurd 11 months ago
TURTLES ALL THE WAY DOWN!!!!
I just keep asking, " So where did THAT come from?"
projectbrumaire 1 year ago
What's the wooden puzzle thing that all the scientists are playing with? It reminds me of a rubiks cube but it clearly isn't! Please help :)
pimp3my7ride 1 year ago 5
@pimp3my7ride Gordish knot.
jafeae 11 months ago
@jafeae thanks :D
pimp3my7ride 11 months ago
@pimp3my7ride i need to buy one of these....
pimp3my7ride 11 months ago
@pimp3my7ride not sure of it's name but I have one lol...got it at the dollar store (there's multiple puzzles like it).
toph4er 7 months ago
Would we EVER be able to understand? Aren't we just two little fish swiming in a fish bowl? Uncapable of seeing far enough into the world out of it to make up our mind about how its like and why it exists, having not enough information to have the OVERVIEW of the whole situation. A maize maze is simple, when seen from above, when you have the overview, but when you're inside, every corner is the same and you get horribly lost. And we cannot find a hill so we can overview the WHOLE problem!
bellaKohler 1 year ago
9:28 thats what i came to think but as usual, all the ideas are taken xD
Yahweigh 1 year ago
The how's and why's never end unless one invokes a God.
Emrys93 1 year ago
@Emrys93 God? Why a God? My pet leprechaun who's sitting on my shoulder says he created the universe. When I asked Jimmy who created him, he said "Don't get smart with me, son. If I can find pots of gold at the end of rainbows I don't need a $%#@ing beginning!". Checkmate scientists.
Occidentally 1 year ago 21
@Occidentally Clever! OOOHH! Check mate philosophers!
Emrys93 1 year ago
@Occidentally I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not because I'm tired but if your serious, to answer your question, because there was a start of everything and a higher being, or God, and that is the best answer we have for the beggining. And sure, we don't understand where He came from, but something tells me something that has the ability to create our universe (or multiple universes) is something we don't understand anyways.
m1ndfr34k117 11 months ago
@Occidentally I find it funny you are using the pot of gold that science has given you to tell science how irrelevant it is. More like the ladybird book of chess.
TheOlivettibakebean 10 months ago
@Occidentally how was god made? Checkmate Religious people.
TheHobbyHub 9 months ago
@Occidentally XD lmfao! I just pictured a little green Irishman screaming at scientists!
ahhhhjjjj 9 months ago
@Occidentally
Why a God? Because my computer that's why.
JuvoII 8 months ago
@Occidentally There is nothing that will explain why there is something rather than nothing. Even if we prove that there was something before the Big Bang that doesn't actually mean much. Something coming from nothing = information/ law that lets that be true.
plExEFile 7 months ago
@plExEFile The earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And, the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. God said, Let there be light: and there was light. GEN 1:1-3."
In the book of Genesis, God explained it very detailed. In the beginning, the earth was void and empty and also, the deep space was in total darkness (the universe). Thus, time did not exist. Then, "Spirit of God" moved upon the face of the earth and in the firmament of heaven.
jegjegod 6 months ago
@plExEfile These, genius professor will take them for billions of years, before they can get to their answer. Thus, accomplishing, nothing." Because, they don't believe in God, who is the creator of all life and created the universe." Yes, they will never predict anything nor will able to know the beginning of creation. Professing, themselves to be wise, but they all became fools and their heart was darkened."
jegjegod 6 months ago
@jegjegod I don't actually believe in a Christian God, but in a creator.
plExEFile 6 months ago
@plExEFile Yes, absolutely, I agree, there's no such thing "Christian God." Either only, "GOD or CREATOR."
jegjegod 6 months ago
@Emrys93 If you say god is eternal, then there can be eternal thing. Therefore, god is not needed.
muromestari 1 year ago
@muromestari God is the only thing that can be eternal, He lives outside space-time.
Emrys93 1 year ago
@Emrys93 Dude, you know what is outside of space-time...? LITERAL Nothing. It doesnt exist. and even if it did.... it has nothing to do with us. If theres a place, theres space.
Yahweigh 1 year ago
@Yahweigh God lives in the supernatural realm. There are many scriptures which tell us of his nature. He told us he had all the necessary requirements for a first "uncaused" cause about 3500 years before philosophy told us said requirements. St. Augustine, in the 300s, thought that God existed outside of time and space, and this was 1900 or so years before space-time was even discovered. Revolutionary thoughts that came (as somewhat of an impossibility) well before their time. Supernatural.
Emrys93 1 year ago
@Emrys93 Dude.... These are HUGE claims..... Where is the HUGE proof?
Yahweigh 1 year ago
@Yahweigh First off, I meant 1600 years when I said 1900 years. As far as the claims, it is easy. Just read the Bible and research St. Augustine, and then research Einstein. You can come up with everything I said in under an hour with google. Nice try on the burden of proof ploy though.
Emrys93 1 year ago
@Yahweigh Also when I said "He told us he had all the necessary requirements for a first "uncaused" cause about 3500 years before philosophy told us said requirements," the He is referring to God in the Bible. Also I think it would be a good thing to research philosophies of time and when people held to the different theories, like classical Newton time and Einstein's space-time.
Emrys93 1 year ago
@Emrys93 dude..... just cuz u dont understand somthing or know EVERYTHING doesnt mean that it was magic man....
Yahweigh 1 year ago
@Yahweigh What? Thats not my point at all. My point is this, when you give yourself a chance to believe, everything about Christianity, God, when Jesus says "I am the way the truth and the life" makes perfect sense, it fits, the veil is taken off your eyes and though the the physics of the beginning of the universe is a fun thing to think about, It's unnecessary. The real thing to think about is what were the physics of the creation account, or when did physics start. That would be cool!!!
Emrys93 1 year ago
@Emrys93 The more i look at the bible ect... the less convinced i am...
Why does an omnipotent being choose to speak through man??? Knowing that this would fail to convince most people? Also Knowing that most ppl would die never even hearing of this book? Explain?
Yahweigh 1 year ago
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Yahweigh 1 year ago
@Emrys93 Involving god and saying "god did it" wouldn't increase your knowledge.
FlyingSpaghettiMoner 8 months ago
I think it's healthy for science to have some "radicals" creating alternative theories to the ones receiving the most attention. If someone is able to disprove it then it's just more exploration into the subject at hand. Better than dedicating all our energies to one theory that might get disproved down the road anyway.
BillyWillis89 1 year ago 4
We all live in a yellow submarine.
neverunseen 1 year ago 3
The membrane theory is pretty unrealistic if you ask me.
vegasnegas111 1 year ago
@vegasnegas111 Unrealistic, but isn't that how every great theory starts out? Like quantum mechanics, or a heliocentric solar system, or even the world being round.
BillyWillis89 1 year ago
@BillyWillis89 Excuse myself. I must rephrase my recent message. The membrane theory is kind of ridiculous if you ask me.
vegasnegas111 1 year ago
@vegasnegas111 I can agree with that. I think it's pretty absurd, but you never know, it might wind up being proven as at least partially correct in the future. Science is exciting like that.
BillyWillis89 1 year ago
@vegasnegas111 How can you say the membrane theory is ridiculous? If it's correct, we can calculate everything that's happening, as opposed to the other theories defying the laws of physics at one point or another.
TeachMeProperDancin 1 year ago
@vegasnegas111 any sane human would call Quantum Mechanics unrealistic. (search Double Slit experiment for one out of many examples)
unrealistic is not always the wrong answer ;P its called 'out of the box thinking'
bellaKohler 1 year ago
@bellaKohler I'm not saying that quantum mechanics is unrealistic, I'm saying that a theory consisting of "two brains colliding together to create the big bang" cannot grasp my senses in a realistic approach. And when I mean unrealistic I'm talking about if these two brains came from nowhere then we must be the by product of membranes that were just floating around in 3 dimensions. We might as well say that they were fat flaps from an obese individual's arm flapping around to create matter.
vegasnegas111 1 year ago
This could be a way of space travel or time travel.
TheDbrown56 1 year ago
the how's and why's are never ending
sammysnakejones 1 year ago 22
@sammysnakejones..Thats the beauty of absolute ignorance!
freedomland11 8 months ago
all the blackboards....
are they used to make things going on inside the facility more 'scientific'?
leindeth 1 year ago
Can someone help me understand how mathematics works. When you do these calculations its all based on units of measure like seconds, years, meters, whatever. We invented these measures, we decide how long a second really is right? So how does that effect the mathematics? Does it not matter?
Ender0410 1 year ago
@Ender0410 Perhaps if we lived on another planet our days/hours/etc would be different, but the amount of time passed would be the same. we didn't invent these measures, we just gave them names, we decided to divide the amount of time it takes the earth to rotate on it's axis into 24 equal units of time (called an hour) and divided the hour into 60 equal units, and so on in both directions. it's like how music theory is just fancy names for how sound waves vibrate.
Desimodontidae 1 year ago
@Ender0410 We did invent them, but we realised they were meaningless unless their units could be linked to fundamental constants in nature.
That's why a second is defined as:
"the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom"
All other measures are then linked with each other. Example: A meter is = Light (constant) going this far in a second. The maths are then built around them.
ba3cool 1 year ago
So the Universe becomes an atomic bomb basically?
deanmullen10 1 year ago
whose to say the multiverse has the same law of maths as ours? and if it had different laws I guess we may never know that much until we can somehow go there eons from now.
deanmullen10 1 year ago
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So ridiculous. Have these scientists never read Kant or Schopenhauer? There IS no object without a subject. You cannot start with the object and then say "we evolved from nothing which began at a point in time." Time and space are forms of OUR perception. You cannot have a big bang without someone to call it a big bang. And that's the problem. The universe as WE know it begins when WE begin, when the information begins - and information we get from our senses - therefore, neurons.
MikieBBB2007 1 year ago
@MikieBBB2007
Just because they existed a long time ago, doesn't do their credibility for defining the universe much good. That, and they arent even scientists. Go home
OpiatedBliss 1 year ago
@OpiatedBliss
You can't be serious? This isn't putting the scientists down in any sense. They're simply asking the wrong question. It's like saying "When did time begin?" Beginnings presuppose time. You don't have to be a scientist to "find this out."
MikieBBB2007 1 year ago
@MikieBBB2007 I think calling it "ridiculous" is quite a bit strong, and philosophy is just a very different approach to hard science, both are often at odds and might better be reconciled. You do have a point there, and an interesting one - if you're saying they're asking the wrong question, I'm wondering what you'd suggest might be the right question?
Daemonique 1 year ago
@Daemonique You're certainly correct about "ridiculous" being strong.
The right question would involve any question about causes and effects pertaining to objects. This is the basis of science. But science doesn't just "exist" - it starts from the human mind and therefore makes philosophical assumptions, one of them being materialism. This leads to great things within its realm, no doubt - but the assumption isn't completely necessary.
So "right" questions are questions that make sense.
MikieBBB2007 1 year ago
There is no limit to the extent that the human mind tries to model the universe "in its own image".
The cosmologists demonstrate how religious diversity came about, more than how the universe came about.
Eternally...breathing in and out. Consciousness constantly emerging.
Penrose is close. Relativity is only relatively useful, and even he can 'break away' from such reliance ( in just five years.).
Here and now is an anathema to the human mind, as is eternity (which is the now bit)
BOfL
bigfletch8 1 year ago
@bigfletch8 Except that it's based on what we see and can demonstrate. Religion is just one guy making a bunch of statements that can't be tested and a load of people believing it because he says so. Religious diversity is present despite the facts, cosmology is diverse because of the facts.
ketsan 1 year ago
@ketsan
So it would appear, but what do 'you' see. As Roger Penrose demonstrated, what he 'saw' five years ago (by his efforts, which 'others' believed), he now sees differently.
You cannot 'see' truth. The limitation of the human receptivity to the light spectrum alone 'demonstrates' that fact.
bigfletch8 1 year ago
@bigfletch8 The fact that Mr Penrose can demonstrate to others why his beliefs changed based on observations of nature and mathmatical models seperates him from religion where beliefs are founded on blind faith. His beliefs even if inaccurate are objective and accurate enough to have utility. The same can't be said of religion.
ketsan 1 year ago
@ketsan
Beliefs are beliefs, regardless of how they are arrived at. One side believes the other side is deluded. Such is the binary nature of the human mind.
bigfletch8 1 year ago
@bigfletch8 No they are not. All these beliefs about cosmology at the moment are all justified based on the observable facts one day one of these beliefs will gain enough facts that it will be deemed for practical purposes to be true at which point it will become knowledge.
Religious beliefs on the other hand are never justified or true and are thus incapable of becoming knowledge and yeild no practical benefit. Beliefs are valid or invalid based on what they yeild.
ketsan 1 year ago
I have one question. Is it possible for things to be completely unknown to us? Could there be an event that created a situation that we could never know cause and effect?
orarkcray 1 year ago
@orarkcray Acceptance of ignorance is unacceptable.
kehwa 1 year ago
@kehwa No no, I'm asking if there was an event that would make it impossible for us to know what caused it? That is not ignorance.
orarkcray 1 year ago
@orarkcray
There is only one answer, and I can promise you, you dont have only one question :-)
bigfletch8 1 year ago