THE DELUGE_2 POLISH HUSARIA ATTACK SWEDISH INFANTRY

[gwardzista999]

co to za gra?

[Okzcarian]

Husaria was important factor in our army but first and foremost advantage of our troops was advanced tactic and mobility. Our hetmans were very creative, they were improving their strategy. Husaria were in fact no more important then "pancerni"(medium armoured) and  light "lisowczycy". In my opinion "pancerni" was our best kind of troops, they were cheaper, faster , and able to fight on foot- universal soldiers

[meduzzzz]

haha! wtf? It's a joke? under kirholm(1605) polish soldiers (husars) were outnumbered 3 to 1 and won with them... we won that war. The computer animation is the only way to show for sons for sons of wikings how to in with cawarly.. one word - stupid.

[joonte1010]

The battle of Kircholm, The Swedish army in that battle was made up mostly or mainly by German merceneries, You can see the difference from that army and the Army we used later when we invaded Poland and Plundered your Country.

and btw, The deluge. Allmost half of Polands population got wiped out because of the Swedish success on the battlefield, and all free plunder on the Cities we conquered, Your Capital was one of the Conquered and plundered citites.

[Okzcarian]

it was because of treason and disorder. we were wining in the field but we were losing sieges

[maksio55]

yes, pikes and phallanx didn't quite work, since Husaria lances were made longer than those.

[Domen558]

"But Husaria was not crushed - it encircled suffering surprisingly low casualties like for such a "Hell"."

I of course wanted to write: "It withdrawed" instead of "It encircled"...

[Domen558]

Polish hetman was responsible for the fail of the Polish Husaria charge during the battle of Warsaw - because he did not send reinforcements (light and medium cavalry + dragoons and artillery) on time.

And that's why Husaria failed, fighting against superior in number (several dozens thousands to 700) enemy, by getting simply encircled and out-gunned.

But Husaria was not crushed - it encircled suffering surprisingly low casualties like for such a "Hell".

[Domen558]

Thus, the Polish hussars had to retreat.

They suffered several dozens casualties (out of 700) - including both killed and wounded.

Mainly due to massive artillery fire on both wings of their formation - right and left.

[Domen558]

"Nonsense! Several times the Huzaria were crushed by the swedes when they were engaged with them in close combat. The battles of Warsaw and Klissow were examples of that."

At Warsaw Husaria (around 700) charged against dozens of thousands of Swedes, crushed their first two lines, and was stopped (not crushed) while fighting against the third line - and not in hand-to-hand combat but by muskete and artillery salvos from both of their flanks (700 Polish hussars just got encircled).

[Domen558]

Husaria was not any "remnants of knights", but regular heavy cavalry - the best trained and the best organized cavalry in Europe with the best tactics.

Like Cuirassiers, Reitters and other western heavy cavalry formations, but simply better.

[Sarmathius]

Thats amazing. In an army where the key factor was infantry, the father of her success preferred to fight on horse. He just got infected by polish myth of fighting horseback. I also read he had admired polish cavalry and trained swedish one according polish assumptions. Thats why swedish cavalry was found to be the best in the Thirty Years War. It didnt only use stupid caracole tactics as all western cavalry troops did. Swedish cavalry charged in that conflict like polish one.

[Gandalf930]

Sarmathius - it was not because we had "not enough hussars", but the hetman was in a serious argue with the king, he wanted him to lose the battle.

You claim to be objective but I see you want to look just kinder for Swedes. They did not have better soldiers as you insinuate, but better organized and bigger army. Besiedes that, I've never read about a battle when the hussars were CRUSHED... Swedish pike walls weren't a challenge for them if anything.

[JohanRegus12]

Now this is redicolous. "Pike walls were no match..." No horse will voluntarily charge pikes head-on! They're not suicidal!

[Gandalf930]

Oh yeah? So you have never read about hussar's horses. Those were trained for years, they did not fear anything. Also, hussar's lances were much longer than typical pikes (4,5 - 6 metre long). They were hollow, used to be crushed on the enemies. Hussars also were trained for a long time, they were so skilled that they could pierce directly the pikemen's stomach. You say that the horses would escape but the historical facts says otherwise. See battle of Trzciana up there.

[Gandalf930]

I see you know nearly nothing about Polish army so why do you even start a debate?

[Sarmathius]

One has to admit, it's very romantic. Husaria - remnants of knights against walls of pikes and muskets . Even Swedish liked that romantic taste. The greatest swedish king Gustav Adolph was hmm actually a cavalryman by choice. And he died as a knight in the battle of Lutzen. I read he had problems with his eyesight and charged Habsburg forces alone, having not noticed his troops didnt follow him!!!

[Sarmathius]

I find it really amazing. At that time battlefields of Europe had already been dominated by fire weapons and pike formations. They were key factors to win the battle and cavalry was only a supportive unit. Yet Polish husaria was beyond this stereotype and could sometimes disprove this theory. Even in the swedish army hayday they were still capable of defeating the finest infantry in Europe. It rarely happened but happened.

[Sarmathius]

As for Warsaw, well it was decisive swedish victory as Kliszow was too, but... I find something really interesting in the battle of Warsaw. Partially it was a polish success or more appropriate polish cavalry success. Heavy hussars charge was succesive and broke swedish lines once polish king saw a gap in swedish lines. Unfortunately for polish, cavalry support didnt follow. Other lighter cavalry units didnt agree to advance fearing of swedish wall of pikes.

[Sarmathius]

As for Kliszow, hmm it was more saxon - swedish battle as far as i know. Poland wasnt in war with Sweden, but Saxony was. Unfortunately Saxon Elector was also polish king and he used polish troops to fight Swedish. Polish commander, Grand Hetman Hieronim Lubomirski had ordered charge a few times but when he realized swedish lines remained still, he withdrew saying he had no enough winged hussars to break their lines and its not his battle.

[Sarmathius]

Easy guys, its only history. I am polish but trying to be objective. Johan is mainly right, swedish army was the finest in Europe during time of The Deluge, no doubt. Especially infantry was the envy of all european rulers. I think we can discuss this matter gently without nationalism. Its nice to learn of the other point of view. Greetings from Poland.

[Gandalf930]

It is hard to find more unhistorical video... Husaria had been crushing Swedish ranks like a knife goes through the butter, loosing only few men, and stopping for nothing but death!

[Svebicum]

Then how come you lost most of the battles, even though you often outnumered us? The Swedish armies were the finest in Europe in the mid-1600s.

[Gandalf930]

The most stupid argument I've ever seen, and I see it every time. Do you think that our army consisted mostly of hussars? NO, they were the elite...

"even though you often outnumered us" WHAT THE FUCK??? WHEN, WHERE??? You outnumbered us THE MOST TIMES. There are only few battles when we weren't outnumbered, such as Warka - we crushed you there. Man, I argued with you weak-minded Swedes many times, and I tell you - you live in your own version of the history.

[Gandalf930]

We were at war at all borders, many nobles betrayed Poland, magnats who had big private armies joined your services and all... Check out previous wars, when we were stronger, we've been crushing you badly such as at Biały Kamień, our forces lost only 81 men when slaying 3000 your "the finest" soldiers... Also, they were two times outnumbered(6000 SWE VS 2300 PL-LT).

[Gandalf930]

Our king was a Swede, how could we be as strong as when we had our Hungarian Batory? In the year of 1598 we could take your country if not That Idiot(our Swedish king of course) didn't spoil the battle of Stegeborg, which was our crushing victory. That Idiot let you "Europe's finest soldiers" flee in panic before our smaller forces, because he was a Swede. It was a real slaughter when our cavalry joined the battle.

[Gandalf930]

They smashed 5000 Swedish soldiers with almost no own casualties, the rest, numbering 12 000 fled in panic... "the finest soldiers in Europe"... Pathetic. Let me show you an example: the battle of Trzciana. Of course you have never heard about it, you know only your "victorius" battles. We Poles do not have to fake the history, we know our victories, but our losses also! We are objective, when you are definitely subjective.

[Gandalf930]

My objective opinion is that Poland had always the best cavalry with fine infantry also, and that Sweden had big and very well organized army... But sorry, the finest infantry soldiers were Cossacks. In the battle of Trzciano, at the place where some Cossacks who fought for us had a skirmish with your infantry, after the battle there were found many hands of Swedish soldiers, cut off, still holding their pistols! Cossacks sliced you with sabres, congratulations.

[Gandalf930]

You did not fear Cossacks even though they were better in melee combat, however, you feared husaria like they were demons... Battle of Trzciana again. Gustav Adolf said that he never was in such a bloody bath, his own life was threatened... Husaria totally crushed your cavalry, your infantry had been fighting with Cossacks for a while, but then hussars appeared and they... Simply fled in panic.

[Gandalf930]

But I have to admit that in that battle you, barbarians, showed one of the very few in history acts of honor... Johann, son of the feldmarshall Wrangel tried to stop our forces with the last regiment of his cavalry to save their infantry... He was killed and his whole regiment put on a sword, but yes, he stopped us for a while... And that while let you "Europe's finest soldiers" flee to Malbork!

I can write more, but it doesn't have any sense, you won't change your mind anyway...

[Gandalf930]

PS. Do I have to remind you that at the battle of Warsaw hussars broke through all your three lines and seriously beaten the royal guard? Also, the hussar Jakub Kowalewski hit your king so strongly that he fell out of the saddle! But, he was cowardly shot in the back when he was finishing your king... They retreated, because the battle was lost. Their casualties - only 16%. Swedish casualties - few thousand, king's life threatened.

Bye, Swede xP

[JohanRegus12]

Gandalf930, stop this despicable behaviour. I will not tolerate such language. You're free to debate, but keep a good tone.

Also, the hussars won this fight, don't complain. And secondly, the Swedish Infantry of the era were top class (as is clearly demonstrated by its many victories, especially against the Russians), far better than the Polish one (Cossacks excepted). Only the Polish cavalry were really dependable to achieve victory.

[JohanRegus12]

Forgot Warsaw? (which I am doing a video about soon) And Kliszow? In both battles, the Swedish army were heavily outnumbered by the poles, but beat them anyway. You claim to be objective and open-minded, yet you only seems to mention your victories. And, alas, Gustaf II Adolf lived long before the Deluge...

[Gandalf930]

You claim that I use bad language? So what would I say about you who does not show any respect by using only small letters when it comes to other nations than yours?

"Hussars won that fight" - I do not care who won that fight, but the way how the hussars attacked! I am quick-tempered and prejudiced to Swedes so my comment could look unkind but it was not my target. I wanted to say that their tactics were continuous charges...

[Gandalf930]

Also, I do not talk about the Deluge but about the hussars, and if not the hussars, I SAID THAT we were much stronger in earlier times and I said why. Battle of Kliszów? You fought with Saxons there... Polish banners lost only 80 men, and crushed your cavalry to dust before they got to your musketeers. Yes, you were too weak in melee combat, you won only because of your guns. But unless you got Dutch muskets, your bullets were usually repelled by excellent hussar's armor.

[Gandalf930]

Why should I talk about our losses? I wait until you do that to explain why we lost there, because there was never a lost battle where only fighting skills decided about it.

Do you even listen to me? At battle of Warsaw you maybe were outnumbered, but not all our forces joined the fight. And as I said before - hussars really humiliated you by getting to the royal guard and wiping your king out of the saddle.

What elese?

[JohanRegus12]

I admit, that was an error of mine, but in was not intended. Just a typing mistake.

However, Hussars were fine in defence too. See those lances? Quite long, aren't they? With one of those you can poke a cavalry soldier charging at you before he can harm you.

[Gandalf930]

I have never read about a battle where the hussars stood and waited for their foes. It was not their tactic. Hussars were used to strike on enemy positions, forming a wall of lances, they charged hand-to-hand. Also, their psychical effect was crushing. Sometimes their foes just fled, because they were known as near-to-invincible. I think the problem is that when I talk about hussars you think I talk about our army overally...

[Kronstadtsuperior]

Nonsense! Several times the Huzaria were crushed by the swedes when they were engaged with them in close combat. The battles of Warsaw and Klissow were examples of that. At Klissow the swedish infantry crushed the huzaria with bayonets.

[Gandalf930]

Read for understand. I wrote about those two battles but you are just an ignorant. Nonsense is your opinion up here.

[Kronstadtsuperior]

Very good!