The Catholic Church: Builder of Civilization, Ep. 1 Introduction [Part 2]

[imtonasty]

why is it only the catholic church are not the christian churches in general?

[MontChevalier]

@imtonasty What kind of a question is that? No. Catholicism and the other Christian denominations are not one. They are separate. They both hold differences that keep them apart. There are too many heretics around, so Catholicism has to stand out separately. Christian churches cannot and will not nor will they ever take credit for what Catholicism has done.

[Mechanized0]

@MontChevalier While I might appear heretical in the eyes of a Catholic it is important that Protestants such as myself acknowledge the positive actions of the Catholic Church over the course of its history. Obviously, this is the reason I posted the series. True, Catholics have also participated in malicious actions as well. However, this is a common weakness of all human beings given our sinful natures.

[MontChevalier]

@Mechanized0 While that may be, to some extent, agreeable, even you can't deny that Protestants and Catholics are not one, and cannot take credit for things one or the other did.

[Mechanized0]

@MontChevalier Obviously.

I do wish more individuals would emphasis the positive achievements of the Catholic Church rather than insisting that is is devoid of them.

[MontChevalier]

@Mechanized0 Imtonasty seems to believe Protestants should take credit for what Catholics have done.

Again, I agree, but wholeheartedly this time. I've looked up the list of Catholic Cleric-Priests. The achievements of the Catholic Church are exponential. I've seen some advances in human civilization, but nothing quite like those included by the Catholic Church. In the mid-ages alone, the average European had more rights than the average Chinaman. I'm not sure you knew that.

[Mechanized0]

@MontChevalier Indeed. Having read Thomas E. Wood's book (and obviously the host of the series posted at this account) "How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization" it would be quite dishonest to deny the plethora of achievements the Catholic Church has provided to mankind. Would that more individuals were objective enough to understand this.

[MontChevalier]

@Mechanized0 You should google "Catholic Cleric Scientist". The results will blow your mind. I know it did mine.

[wbarquez]

The so-called conflict between faith and science through the centuries could partly be blamed on some leaders of the Church who took the Bible literally and read it like a modern science handbook, so much so that people like Copernicus and Galileo were persecuted by some churchmen. They should have listened to men like Cardinal Baronius, a contemporary of Galileo, who said that "Scriptures tell us how to go to Heaven and not how the heavens go."

[yuppyguitar1]

Kind of surprising seeing the religious side of Tom. I like many came here after watching Tom at the mises institute. I'm kind of surprised to see him shouting the praises of the catholic church, considering how many evils they've committed. And as a historian, Tom more than anyone would have a strong understanding of their history.

[Mechanized0]

@yuppyguitar1 This series is obviously created to debunk quite a few myths that have plagued the Catholic Church for some time.

[yuppyguitar1]

@Mechanized0 Debunking myths is a good thing. What I'm saying is, if the thing is already rotten to the core, what good is it to debunk peripheral myths?

[Mechanized0]

@yuppyguitar1 Everyone and everything involving humans is "rotten to the core." Many Protestant churches and atheist organizations are as well. Sadly, its part of the human condition.

[yuppyguitar1]

@Mechanized0 No, not everything is corrupted. Furthermore, it seems you're arguing that just because the catholic church is not the only corrupted institution, means that it is somehow permissible, which is also false. Finally, while there may exist corrupt atheists, there is way you can you say the evils of atheists is in any way comparable to the genocide and torture committed in the name of catholicism.

[Mechanized0]

@yuppyguitar1 The Communist states of Moa and Lenin/Stalin managed to murder in excess of 100 million individuals in less than a century.

It should also be known that I am not catholic nor is appealing to present them in a light of perfection. The alleged genocide & torture committed by the Catholic Church is of course quiet exaggerated. This however is not true of the atheist regimes of Communist China and the Soviet Union.

[yuppyguitar1]

@Mechanized0 Mao and Stalin were both men. Should we say that men are generally genocidal? They also happen to be in the Asian continent. Maybe something in the soil there makes the men genocidal, therefore people in Asia tend to be genocidal? Or perhaps something in the genetic makeup of russians and chinese?

Try attacking the thing that is evil rather than randomly selecting attributes and attaching it to the evil.

[Mechanized0]

@yuppyguitar1 The point that was being made is that evil is present within every man. It is however infinity more destructive when concentrated within the state, regardless of creed or ethnicity. The greater this concentration the greater the evil. This is the primary problem mankind has endured throughout the centuries.

However, since all of mankind is corrupted, then everything he touches is therefore corrupted. It is a matter of degree rather than kind.

[yuppyguitar1]

@Mechanized0 I think we agree there. In fact, the catholic church was deeply embedded in the state when most of its evil was done.

[Mechanized0]

@yuppyguitar1 More often than not is was actually the opposite despite the propaganda to the contrary (although this does not suggest that the individual actors of the Church are guilty of sinful acts. Everyone is). The state itself absent any theological justification became an even greater murderous institution. This statement is not to argue for a theocracy but rather acknowledging the reality of human nature and its inability to wield absolute power in a benevolent manner.

[Snotra]

Truth is subjective to liberals and Protestants.

[FriskyGhost]

@cedwards600 what did they do? If you are talking about condoms, check out how South Africa is doing with AIDS. AIDS is running rampant. They are giving out condoms like crazy. It's not helping. Now check out Uganda. That's a Catholic country promoting abstinince. AIDS are not a problem there.

[TheWyldeGoose]

@FriskyGhost I'm afraid you're wrong here. The reason is that the diagnosis of AIDS has been rendered very loosely by the WHO, because Africa doesn't have enough labs and testing mediums to diagnose the presence of HIV. People who may have a common Cold are diagnosed with having AIDS in Africa. It's one of the reasons the number of AIDS patients in Africa is highly overblown.

[Yummygreek]

@cedwards600 @cedwards600 So what did the Church do in Africa? Preach chastity? Introduced Christian values? If you say slavery... #1 Those were all European and Mid Eastern countries (Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, and "Enlightened") #2 I suggest you look up who were the first ppl to preach against black slavery...

[zekiDan]

@cedwards600 what did they do?

[amaqula]

Reason has its roots in Truth - if you deny the Truth either spiritual or natural - then you won't be able to reason. Many people do a twisted reasoning - because they avoid the Truth - it is not to their taste. They then use force or lies in place of reasoning - to force their 'truth' through.

ONLY A CATHOLIC STATE WILL RESIST GOVERNMENT EFFORTS FOR YOUR DEMOGRAPHIC WIPEOUT AND ISLAMISATION!

[ElasticGiraffe]

I think he may be attributing things to the Roman Church that actually originated with the ancient Greeks, but were adopted and later developed by medievals, especially after the rediscovery of Aristotle...

[VictorLepanto]

@ElasticGiraffe: You really have no idea what happned to the Greeks & Romans in the terminal phase of the Classical era do you? I can find extensive quotes for you on how the both the Greeks & later the Romans failed to even reproduce themselves. Greco-Roman Pagan civilisation ended as a debauched, corrupt schlerotic tyranny of the Roman Empire.