lindsey german "why you should be a socialist" Part 1 of 3

[rupertbrooks0]

What an ignorant, bigoted woman. The market is merely the bringing together of buyers and sellers. Marxism is more of a religious cult than a mature political party. The marxist labour theory of value is hardy an adequate foundation for a new society. There is no such thing as the laws of economics. The economy is an abstract concept.

[DonaldNice100]

@rupertbrooks0 Capitalism, over time, produces higher and higher profits for the "owners" of companies and resources, it does not create wealth, merely moves it from the hands of the majority into the hands of the "elite" few. Therefore, it will only reach it's logical conclusion when every piece of land, every resource and all political power (that is undeniably tied to wealth and ownership) is in the possession of one company or one government or perhaps one man. Would you be happy then?

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

Around 6:40 she makes the same error as the Marxist theory of Value. She claims the workers should be entitled to all the profits from their labour. But the employer has provided the capital needed to get these profits, not the employee. The employee may be making, say, £30 per hour for the company, and is only paid £8 per hour, but this is because the employee is just a small input in the overall process. Should the company's electricity provider also be entitled to the company's profits too?

[DonaldNice100]

@SpunkOnSchoolUniform The profits should not go to private company owners to gather obscene wealth while doing none of the work. The companies should be State owned to ensure that the profits can be used to benefit (albeit indirectly) those who produce them. Why should 90% of a countries wealth be owned by 10% of it's populace? How can you justify that? MDs of companies earning millions in a single day while playing golf! There is something seriously wrong there!Or do you think thats acceptable?

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

@DonaldNice100 So, if a company makes substantial losses, and if faced with huge debts, the workers should be accountable for those debts too?

[DonaldNice100]

@SpunkOnSchoolUniform This would surely be unnecessary if the companies are state owned, for income from taxes would be able to offset losses, under capitalism, doesn't the self-employed business owner have to take on his own losses? Why is it that global corporations do not? Surely this is capitalism for the masses and socialism for the elite? Only 2 FTSE100 companies pay any tax at all, how is this just? Why is it that people like Rupert Murdoch pay less tax than me or you?

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

@DonaldNice100 Yes; I dislike the current system probably as much as yourself, despite our political/economic differences. I wish we had proper Capitalism, not Corporatism. Big businesses and banks should not be bailed out by the taxpayers. It encourages profligacy and waste. Capitalism should encourage effiency, because waste results in less profit. Of course banks will behave recklessly if they know they'll be bailed out! It angers me as much as anyone.

[DonaldNice100]

@SpunkOnSchoolUniform I am glad to have a discussion that is civilised although in almost direct opposition (must be a Youtube first!) Socialism has it's failings and it's redeeming features, as does capitalism, but it just seems to me that the intrinsic values of socialism are far more fair. If someone is born more intelligent than his neighbour, that shouldn't give him the right to be his ruler. It is debate far older than either of us, perhaps there will one day be a perfect ideology!

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

@DonaldNice100 Thanks- although I don't think that we're too different generally. We both don't like Corporatism, but I'd argue that this is often the result of government action, and either deliberate or accidental decisions by politicians which give large companies powers over smaller ones, or cause small businesses to close down. But I don't think a Utopia can exist either in Socialism or a Free Market; as humans we're too flawed inherently. We just have to get by the best we can.

[DonaldNice100]

@SpunkOnSchoolUniform Amen, it is we that are flawed, corruption will eventually destroy any ideology no matter how well-conceived! What you fight for today, your sons take for granted. George Washington said there should be a revolution under any society every 3 generations because he could see this inherent corruption. We humans are greedy and obsessed by fear and driven by instinct which tells us to take everything we can regardless of the consequences for ourselves or others.

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

@DonaldNice100 That's a very astute point. And George Washington (as well as Thomas Jefferson) are held in regard very highly by myself too. I'm not American, but I wish the USA could reduce the size, scope and power of its government back to the early days. When you have lots of government, industrialists and tycoons invariably try to take it over. Without the state exherting power, they have no means to do so. As a result, monopolies are less likely to form; indeed, virtually impossible.

[DonaldNice100]

@SpunkOnSchoolUniform Im not American either, but the founding fathers are to be admired, ironically they were far more ideologically advanced than any of their inheritors. The birth of globalism will almost certainly give rise to frighteningly powerful monopolies. We have already seen, this century, corporations more powerful than governments. It is in a dark direction that we are now headed!

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

@DonaldNice100 As long as the corporations have competitors, we the consumers have certain powers. Apple, although a corporation, is held with great esteem amongst many on the Left as it eats into Microsoft's power, and helps to keep prices down/standards up. I am actually more concerned about my taxes being forcibly taken from me to shore up failing corporations. Why are they failing? Not satisfying the customers properly. If I don't want to give them my money, that should be my choice!

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

And are you implying that all businesses should be state-run?

[DonaldNice100]

@SpunkOnSchoolUniform Certain industries should be stae owned, such as; Public Transport, Financial institutions, Energy suppliers, Education establishments and Health -care providers and these only if the state is truly representative of the people and genuinely has the interests of the majority as its priority. The idea of all businesses being state-run is impractical at the least.

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

@DonaldNice100 Yes, I agree that the idea of the entire economy being government-run is extremely impractical; I'd say, impossible. No central authority could have all the information needed to allocate resources efficiently. However, regarding your suggestion of state-owned institutions; how much would you pay the people who were in charge of running them?

[DonaldNice100]

@SpunkOnSchoolUniform People should be paid relative to their workload and abilities, you can't claim that Capitalism is truly meritocratic, it is utterly inequal and actively encourages exploitation. Capitalism is socially corrosive and moves all wealth to a smaller and smaller elite over time. If we have learned anything over the last decade it is that capitalism cannot last as a permanent ideology, hence why it needs socialism to patch it up (failed private finance rescued with public funds)

[rb1601]

The prevailing political system over the past 10,000 years has been the imperialist absolute monarchy. No sensible person would regard that as "freedom" or "keeping humanity alive."

[rb1601]

No she isn't. I suggest you read " Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition", a U.S. government study during the George W. Bush administration which concluded that conservatism is a mental disorder.

[PaashRevolutionary]

Seeing Ms German's continual insistence on the importance and need of the "white socialists" video's title should be changed to -"why you should be a white socialist".

[xnostromo]

I don't think you quite get socialism.

[pazuzu1917]

Listen idiot, when you pay taxes, the government doesn't keep all the money for itself, it spends it on things like schools, hospitals, emergency services etc.

[DonaldNice100]

@pazuzu1917 If you beleive that, then Santa will be bringing you lot of presents this year!

[Futurecast]

That is an absolutely glib and useless comment unkie. You've criticized Lindsey's views which I think is foolish, but fine. Yet you provide no alternative or understanding that is any better.

I fear for you this is because there is no viable alternative.. seeing as even the most neoliberal capitalist papers (The Financial Times) and one of the most capitalist neoliberal parties ("New" Labour) were both regretfully but fully complicit in the bank's nationalization. Imo the market does not work!

[unkie888]

"Imo the market does not work! "

right.....

so from the BOE's resuce of NRK you deduce that free markets - the entire foundation of western economics don't work.

now thats glib and useless.

read P J O'Roukes "Eat the Rich" - it's a light and funny introduction to economics.

[unkie888]

linsey,

re: northern rock.

it's clear from this video you understand nothing about how economics and banking works, how free markets work and even what money *is*

i think you are probably a nice person, but we have a saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" and you my dear have so very very little.

[adycousins]

She knows how economics works, she just thinks its just a bullshit, love.