on one note, i'd like the stress that the guy in this video is trying so hard to beat around the bush, its funny. its almost like "i don't want to be called stupid by my other friends, who... all happen to be interested in the same shit, which all happens to be 'gothicly influenced' , so i'm going to say labels are for highschoolers so i can feel secure"
the music, styles, clubs, diversity, etc is all classified as 'goth' because guess what? it evolved since the batcave! its still part
and your wrong! bauhaus, clan of xymoth and christian death are the founding fathers they set the foundation and the industrial people arnt true goth your known as rivet heads
@slipmagg0tknot why are you even on here you metal heads fuck everything up you say nightwish is goth and you have no knowledge of true goth. so leave cus you are killing my music.
And just dropping back on why I innitially posted here. Goth was a mediahype in the eighties concerning goth, new wave and post-punk music. People listening to this new kind of dark sound were called goths.
I openmindedly believe that goth is plain and narrowmindedly exactly that. People all have different opinions about what goth is, but the music is propably the largest aspect as it created the subculture and should not be forgotten. The music is what brings the goths together.
Seems I forgot to click reply to your posts on my long chain of text. I hope you'll be able to read it all.
I thank you for staying calm as that certainly shows a sign of intelligence, and even though we might not agree, I respect someone capable of a good discussion. You dont always have to agree, but we're having a good discussion nontheless.:)
In closing; because I've wasted far to much time on a wall of text so big that could actually be fit in a single post. I'm a pretty thoughtfull person even if I say so myself. I'm generally kind and helping on the streets, but I'm also a critic and think heavily on my actions. If I make enemy's with my attitude, then I have no problem with that. I wouldnt like a person that wouldnt understand my point anyway. I have an opinion, and I will defend it untill proven wrong with constructive feedback.
I dont like narrowminded people and I wont make a secret of that. These kind of people often believe what popular people and/or media tells them and will never get them proven wrong even though evidence is of very bad quality, they are right because "people say so". I find this stupidity and I will try to have people think for themselves. But like I said, A cookie and a suggestion of rethinking their theory is the same as homework: Hadly anyone even does it, while laughing at the teacher.
Some people cant take critisism if it lures them away what they think is right. They wont take any solid evidence proving otherwise even if it were infront of their nose and I have seen alot of people grow agressive because they cant take having their "reality" of a subject proven wrong. Its all part of discussing.
Instead of staying nice, a shove in the right direction can help them in the long run. An openminded person will often see this while a narrowminded person will get upset.
Now I wouldnt call it mistreating as I'm not in any way insulting them. Strong critisism is what you should be able to endure if you want a good job these days. Having people deal with it will make them stronger.
Opinions are based on what you believe. The point of discussions is trying to make people believe your point of view.
Critisism and sometimes a shove often help put people in the right direction.
If I claimed to know stuff about anything I knew litteraly nothing about, I would expect no different than to have someone defend the importance of what is correct and what isnt.
Some people also dont want to accept they're wrong and I find that narrowminded. And being the "asshole" I am, I'm definatly going to tell them they are.
Being kind all the time doesnt get the message across. A good shove however, helps.
My attitude is nothing I can change. I'm a rather straight on person, and that could lead to people being offended. Thats how I am.
In short, I think that people should earn respect before they get it.
I'd rather be an asshole then to have people turning up at my parties demanding Slipknot or Cradle of Filth or something. I believe that goth is a subculture that started with music and still is the most important part of it.
Apart from that, I'm a nice guy really. Depends on how you look at it.
If you're so "openminded" like the stereotype believes you to be, arent you supposed to know that "Everybody has their own view on goth"?
Also, if you're referring the strong musical movement to a high school club, theres still alot you dont know. I suggest actually visiting a goth club and talking to the people before you go bashing on something you clearly havent done research in.
Last but not least, this is critisism, treat this post as such.
NO, fuck off and shut the fuck up... Goth is stupid everyones whos "gawff" doesnt know shit about goth!! Go fucken play dress up and parade around industrial music like a fucken cockaroach!! Dungeon and Dragons motherfucker lol
ha,ha...so true dude! Also for the kids who are into the clothing style, try looking at who the Gothic people were from a historical perspective, why they were labeled such and yes, it is an architectural style as well.....things evolve and connotations of words and their meanings change
You are an idiot. ther is apage on wiki type in goth subculture. it's not a "label" it's a subculture you are either in it or not. it has everything to do with bauhaus. do research before posting bullshit!!! you critisize high school kids yet you sound like one whining about "labels".
Goth is temporary stage that many twats go through when they feel misunderstood and try to seek out a group to fit in with. This clique is run by elitest dicks who are controlled by muisc and fashion companies, and tell people they're not goth unless they do so and so.
Goth is what true goths are ashamed to be called. They'd rather not be called a goth because they don't want to be mistaken for any of the idiots ruining the subculture.
GeneralHoohah:goth and posers basically have nothing to do with eachother.people a lot of times don't understand what goth is. belonging to a group of people that spend too much money on hottopic has nothing to do what goth is about.its not hard to spot a poser-they often say "i'm so gothic i'm so dark" "I LOVE EDWARD FROM TWILIGHT!" or "i love Marilyn Manson and Cradle of filth!"you will also notice that they wear too much makeup. now THATS a(pre)teen gothic phase.
@GeneralHoohah other than the fact that most true goths have the humor to sarcasticly stereotype themselves for self entertainment and really don't care about what others have to say about it. i personally don't give a shit about labels or how some highschool wannabe's decide to give themselves a name, or more accuratly, the people OUTSIDE of the subculture labeling the wrong people the wrong thing. its not a 'label' , and its not an architecture. its a fucking 25 year old lifestyle
I think that some would lable you a "rivethead". The dark post apocalyptic atmosphere is fundamental to industrial music.
I do agree with you that people should utilize their own creativity. However the other people are correct when they said that the goths are a germanic tribe. The interesting thing is that their main god is Woden who is the god of poetry, magic, and death. How much more goth can you get? w00t! Have a good mate and I wish you the best of luck!
Nice video, I completely agree, it's all down to a person's interpretation. It frustrates me when "oldschool" goths say you're only goth if you listen to the bands that started it all. How do you progress if you live in the past? And yeah, it's just a label. Convenient when you need to describe someone quickly, but otherwise a waste of time.
The oldskool goths are right. Industrial music isnt goth music, its just a style of music that alot of goths also like.
Goth is a musical subculture, that means that you are a goth when you listen to goth music. Also, the oldskool bands where the first goths bands and therefor pure. Out of those other styles started like Darkwave, these styles are also still pure goth and therefor remain in the subculture.
Pure EBM and modern Industrial fans are "cyber", not goth. Though goths also like it.
Goth is about creativity right? How can you tell goths what to like without repressing their creativity? Goth has evolved. There's music specifically called "gothic", but you shouldn't have to like it to call yourself a goth. Goth has expanded beyond just music into a philosophy and a way of life. "Goth" is a label, a description - not a religion, not a cult, not a uniform culture. Why conform when we've just escaped from the conformity of the masses? This is my objection to gothic purism.
And in my opinion calling yourself a nonconformist is pure bullshit! Dont we all get out of bed in the morning to work? Dont we all go to the Macdonalds when we want something to eat? Ah, vegetarians.. Even when you're a vegetarian, your conforming with the other vegetarians.
Goth is a musical subculture. Dont like the music? Then youre not a Goth.
Goth was born in the 80's as a subculture based on music, and that has not changed. Dont trust TV to tell you what is Goth. Goth -> Gothic music.
Actually the most pure form of goth, before architecture, was a barbarian tribe. There are many goths who would disagree with your definition of what is goth today. You can't say that only one thing is goth, because language changes and evolves, not just subcultures. Creativity has a lot to do with goth, and if you're just copying people in a particular scene, then you're just another teenager giving in to an image.
Now I of course don't mean only goths are creative. Goths simply have a darker sense of creativity that differs from the mainstream. As for conforming, your example of basic human needs is irrelevant, nonconformism is actually a refusal of the norm. Goths today are free to express themselves the way they want, not conforming to mainstream ideas, and not conforming to the ideas of close-minded teen-goths such as yourself. If you think goth hasn't changed, you're a blind robot living in the past.
You can believe goth is whatever you want. I haven't seen goth on TV, I've researched it. You can call yourself goth just as a clubber, or you can call youself goth as a lifestyler, or whatever. If you think you're goth, chance is you are goth. Since you call yourself goth, I just wanted to point out that not everyone agrees with you. Goth isn't a cult, there arem't strict rules, and to say so would make many deny that you are goth at all, just a poser going clubbing.
I'm not a clubber, I don't socialise with many goths, so I don't consider myself part of the main gothic culture. I call myself goth do describe the fact that I have dark interests, dark creativity, dark fashion sense, and dark music tastes. I dress goth when I feel like it, not just to impress some people at a night club. Now sure, tell me I'm not a real goth, there is no such thing as a "real goth". Goth is a label. Get that through your head.
Goths are not a different kind of human being.. You cant expect all goths to have a sence of creativity that normal people dont have.
Your vision of goth is to closeminded my friend. In your eyes, every goth needs to break away from mainstream ideas, which is ironic because most goths in my area are dressed like everybody else by day.
Also, the reason i'm on about this is because the subculture is being destroyed with people that claim to be goth wile their not. People that brag about their CoF, Slipknot and Evansence albums as if they were goth bands. Music is important. Fighting that off will destroy the subculture.
Now i'm not going to further debate this matter in terms of personality of a goth, because every goth is different. What counts is that a goth is defined from gothic music.
Also, i'm not calling myself a goth at all, unlike other people.
I'm not giving new friends i make the "Hey, i'm goth!" quote.
I just love the music, the clothes, the atmosphere, the clubs and have a darker taste then other people have.
I did not say goths are a different species. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote about creativity. Goths don't "need" to break free, because a lot of them already have, regardless of how they dress by day.
Goth today is not the old goth tribe. But goth today is also not restricted to the original music movement either. That was goth yesterday, which people still follow, but is not the only meaning of the word "goth" anymore.
Sure, goth started with music. But it's not any weaker now that it's diversified. Goth is one of few surviving subcultures. Goth has a lasting appeal that many people can relate to, and saying goths can only be oldschoolers alienates a huge percentage of the gothic community.
And yes. "Poser" is an insult. But that's how many goths today would view someone like you.
People who "brag" about CDs and specific bands do annoy me I'll agree. Too much band worship for my liking, and that's much more metaller culture in my view. However goths can still like metal. It doesn't weaken gothic culture at all. Like I said before, if you try to cast out these people, goth is more likely to fall, because you've just lost so many people who identify as goth. You're not running an exclusive cult here. Culture is alive, it shifts and changes.
People thinking because their goth because they seem to like CoF or Slipknot are misinformed by MTV.
hese people are being cast out all the time for a good reason. People dont care how small their subculture is, aslong as people can still feel like home in it.
The new generation of "metalgoths" are destroying it. They are metalheads, not goth.
I mean, what makes a metalhead a metalhead? Exactly! The music and its fashion. Same goes for goth.
I believe you are taking me to seriously on the music part. A goth can listen to whatever he want, aslong as goth is a big part of it.
Also, why do you want to change the subculture so much? "What is Goth" has not changed at all.. Its just the mainstreams view on goth what makes people think the subculture is all about the "feeling"(, which is bullshit in my eyes).
Goth has not changed apart from some music styles being introduced. (Like Darkwave etc.)
I'm not trying to change goth. It has changed itself. I accept that there's gothic music, but there's also gothic culture. I don't agree with you that gothic music is the same as gothic culture. The word "culture" includes not just music, but art, beliefs, behaviours amongst other things. "Subculture" includes shared values, attitudes, and customs. Goth culture is not just music. You can like other music and still be goth because it's broader than that.
Hello, "subculture". Not "music culture". People can be in whatever subculture they want. You can live in the past, that's fine, but you can't drag everyone else back into your supposedly "purist" thinking. There were people who were often called goths in the 18th Century, architecture lovers. Then there were the gothic novels. Gothic fiction inspired Bauhaus to write "Bela Lugosi's Dead", considered to be the birth of gothic music. Goth has a longer history than the music which popularised it.
I listen to all of those, what am I a metal rapper goth? No. My fashion, my interests, my behavours and my sense of identity are what make me goth and not the rest. And yes, the goth tribe didn't live like goths today, because times change! Duh.
I'm not saying goth is a tribe. I'm saying that if you're a "true purist", you're stupidly ignoring what the original pure goth was.
And yeah, I label myself goth simply because it's easier than saying well I listen to this music, dress this way, have these interests, yadda yadda. One word versus a life story? Yes please. I don't intentionally say "how do I make myself look goth". I wear what works for me, and if the label for it is goth, then so be it.
Now, we're clearly not going to agree here. This argument is rather pointless. How bout you believe in your goth, and I'll stick to mine. I've lost interest in your argument because you just say the same thing over and over and I get it okay, you're absolutely obsessed with the music idea. I'm not changing my opinion either so let's just not go in stupid circles.
Goth has not originated as a lifestyle, the subculture started out in the 80's with Joy Division and Bauhaus, you cant deny that mate.
I wouldnt hear a metalhead telling others that his subculture is all about the feeling.
Meh, i'm already starting the conversation from the beginning onve again, i would just like to tell you that i too have interests for poetry, clothes, art etc. I just dont count them as goth attributes.
I don't deny that the current goth grew around the music, I just argue it has continued to grow and change, and I never said goth is a feeling. I called it a label and a subculture. I wasn't arguing it started as a lifestyle, but that the music was inspired by existing gothic fiction, although I don't mean it had no punk roots. Just wanted to clear that up.
That's cool that you have those interests, and if they're not part of your identity as a goth, that's fine. They don't have to be. Not everyone who identifies as goth is the same.
when you get the question what is goth, just answer, look up all the deffinitions of goths, if you're interested look at my video goths plain and simple, and it explains all the different deffinitions of goth, it really helps
the true goths like Rozz were called post punks or freaks if someone called me a goth i say im a freak!
I am i dont fit the norm goth and the hottopic crap are the norm im a freak end convo.........btw im breaking into your house and stealing your googles as i type....
The modern Goth subculture is centered around the music.
Bands like Bauhaus, The Cure, The Neph and stuff like that..
If youre into stuff like Slipknot, Evanescence, Within Temptation, Cradle of filth and other Metal bands, Goth is not something for you, and youre propably more of a "Spooky Kid" or a "Metalhead", so go hang with those guys instead.
There you have it, I just described Goth in a matter of seconds.
um yea, you can be a goth and still listen to cradle of filth, evanescence, ect. you can't say someone is less goth because they don't listen to the same music you do, i mean i see what you're going at, but there is such a thing as metalgoth, they are fans of both goth music as well as metal music, but goth is still based around bands like sisters of mercy, sex gang children (personal favorite), alien sex fiend, The 69 eyes (for modern goth they're not bad), as well as christian death (kick ass)
You cannot be a goth if your main musical taste isnt goth music.
If you like the clothing style, wear it, just dont call yourself a goth cause youll be laughed at.
What are people trying to prove anyway? Why do they so desperatly want to be goth?
Its just a subculture based on music, with a fitting clothing style, stuff like art are totally taste driven, you dont need it. You kids out there are welcome to jump around like a happy rabbit, wont hurt.xD
oh, please excuse my babybat friend here, this is the person who did the video goths plain and simple, the owner of this does the editing on the videos, anyways, i think what he meant to say was that with metalgoths they listen to a balance of goth and metal, but they would perfer goth music over everything else, like my self, i'm an old-school, i like metal music, but i would much perfer listenong to the sisters of mercy, or sexgangchildren over anything, so again, sorry about babybats comments
Dont take my words too seriously mate. And its not big deal. I just think that in order to keep the subculture alive and original, the music should be kept in sacred.
agreed my friend, goth music should be treated with care, and not tried to be changed into something different, bands like sisters of mercy alien sexfiend, nosferatu, specimen, should still be noticed, but like you sad, bands like CoF, HIM, NightWish, etc, cause people to think that they are gothic style bands, don't get me wrong they're fine bands, but they could never replace the classics
OMG...I have gotten that "What is Goth?" question SOOOOOOOO many times! It's so annoying, because I never know how to answer it, especially on the spot like that...it's just like "How much time do you have?" lol. I enjoyed your thoughts on it =)
I dress "Goth", but I don't consider myself a "Goth"...I just get labeled as such because of how I look...kinda annoying.
What is GOTH
Oh baby, don't hurt me
Don't hurt me no more
What is GOTH
Oh baby, don't hurt me
Don't hurt me no more
playerlazar73 1 year ago
on one note, i'd like the stress that the guy in this video is trying so hard to beat around the bush, its funny. its almost like "i don't want to be called stupid by my other friends, who... all happen to be interested in the same shit, which all happens to be 'gothicly influenced' , so i'm going to say labels are for highschoolers so i can feel secure"
the music, styles, clubs, diversity, etc is all classified as 'goth' because guess what? it evolved since the batcave! its still part
KattReMiX 1 year ago
BULL SHIT
vulcanswb3a 1 year ago
any single gothic guys out there that are looking for a date hihi
gothxangelajana 2 years ago
any gothic guys watching this i could use some company tonight
gothicbellydancer88 2 years ago
i am gothic too and bored like hell if anyone is up for chat let me know
GothicAngelinaa88 2 years ago
Comment removed
GeneralHoohah 2 years ago
and your wrong! bauhaus, clan of xymoth and christian death are the founding fathers they set the foundation and the industrial people arnt true goth your known as rivet heads
birinbirinbirin 2 years ago
@GothicAaangel88
sure.
Any problems with chatting to a Metalhead?
slipmagg0tknot 2 years ago
@slipmagg0tknot why are you even on here you metal heads fuck everything up you say nightwish is goth and you have no knowledge of true goth. so leave cus you are killing my music.
birinbirinbirin 2 years ago
And just dropping back on why I innitially posted here. Goth was a mediahype in the eighties concerning goth, new wave and post-punk music. People listening to this new kind of dark sound were called goths.
I openmindedly believe that goth is plain and narrowmindedly exactly that. People all have different opinions about what goth is, but the music is propably the largest aspect as it created the subculture and should not be forgotten. The music is what brings the goths together.
HawK047 2 years ago
Seems I forgot to click reply to your posts on my long chain of text. I hope you'll be able to read it all.
I thank you for staying calm as that certainly shows a sign of intelligence, and even though we might not agree, I respect someone capable of a good discussion. You dont always have to agree, but we're having a good discussion nontheless.:)
HawK047 2 years ago
In closing; because I've wasted far to much time on a wall of text so big that could actually be fit in a single post. I'm a pretty thoughtfull person even if I say so myself. I'm generally kind and helping on the streets, but I'm also a critic and think heavily on my actions. If I make enemy's with my attitude, then I have no problem with that. I wouldnt like a person that wouldnt understand my point anyway. I have an opinion, and I will defend it untill proven wrong with constructive feedback.
HawK047 2 years ago
I dont like narrowminded people and I wont make a secret of that. These kind of people often believe what popular people and/or media tells them and will never get them proven wrong even though evidence is of very bad quality, they are right because "people say so". I find this stupidity and I will try to have people think for themselves. But like I said, A cookie and a suggestion of rethinking their theory is the same as homework: Hadly anyone even does it, while laughing at the teacher.
HawK047 2 years ago
Some people cant take critisism if it lures them away what they think is right. They wont take any solid evidence proving otherwise even if it were infront of their nose and I have seen alot of people grow agressive because they cant take having their "reality" of a subject proven wrong. Its all part of discussing.
Instead of staying nice, a shove in the right direction can help them in the long run. An openminded person will often see this while a narrowminded person will get upset.
HawK047 2 years ago
Now I wouldnt call it mistreating as I'm not in any way insulting them. Strong critisism is what you should be able to endure if you want a good job these days. Having people deal with it will make them stronger.
Opinions are based on what you believe. The point of discussions is trying to make people believe your point of view.
HawK047 2 years ago
Critisism and sometimes a shove often help put people in the right direction.
If I claimed to know stuff about anything I knew litteraly nothing about, I would expect no different than to have someone defend the importance of what is correct and what isnt.
Some people also dont want to accept they're wrong and I find that narrowminded. And being the "asshole" I am, I'm definatly going to tell them they are.
Being kind all the time doesnt get the message across. A good shove however, helps.
HawK047 2 years ago
My attitude is nothing I can change. I'm a rather straight on person, and that could lead to people being offended. Thats how I am.
In short, I think that people should earn respect before they get it.
I'd rather be an asshole then to have people turning up at my parties demanding Slipknot or Cradle of Filth or something. I believe that goth is a subculture that started with music and still is the most important part of it.
Apart from that, I'm a nice guy really. Depends on how you look at it.
HawK047 2 years ago
If you're so "openminded" like the stereotype believes you to be, arent you supposed to know that "Everybody has their own view on goth"?
Also, if you're referring the strong musical movement to a high school club, theres still alot you dont know. I suggest actually visiting a goth club and talking to the people before you go bashing on something you clearly havent done research in.
Last but not least, this is critisism, treat this post as such.
HawK047 2 years ago
NO, fuck off and shut the fuck up... Goth is stupid everyones whos "gawff" doesnt know shit about goth!! Go fucken play dress up and parade around industrial music like a fucken cockaroach!! Dungeon and Dragons motherfucker lol
NeonXtacy 2 years ago
Is that a combichrist tattoo? couldnt tell because of the video quality. But if it is right on!
kerav101 2 years ago
Comment removed
HawK047 2 years ago
LOL goggles XD
sallom899 2 years ago
ha,ha...so true dude! Also for the kids who are into the clothing style, try looking at who the Gothic people were from a historical perspective, why they were labeled such and yes, it is an architectural style as well.....things evolve and connotations of words and their meanings change
TurtleThunder73 2 years ago
You are an idiot. ther is apage on wiki type in goth subculture. it's not a "label" it's a subculture you are either in it or not. it has everything to do with bauhaus. do research before posting bullshit!!! you critisize high school kids yet you sound like one whining about "labels".
Asisan1 2 years ago
I'll tell you what goth is.
Goth is temporary stage that many twats go through when they feel misunderstood and try to seek out a group to fit in with. This clique is run by elitest dicks who are controlled by muisc and fashion companies, and tell people they're not goth unless they do so and so.
Goth is what true goths are ashamed to be called. They'd rather not be called a goth because they don't want to be mistaken for any of the idiots ruining the subculture.
THIS is the truth.
GeneralHoohah 2 years ago
GeneralHoohah:goth and posers basically have nothing to do with eachother.people a lot of times don't understand what goth is. belonging to a group of people that spend too much money on hottopic has nothing to do what goth is about.its not hard to spot a poser-they often say "i'm so gothic i'm so dark" "I LOVE EDWARD FROM TWILIGHT!" or "i love Marilyn Manson and Cradle of filth!"you will also notice that they wear too much makeup. now THATS a(pre)teen gothic phase.
TheBlackenedWHITE 2 years ago
@GeneralHoohah other than the fact that most true goths have the humor to sarcasticly stereotype themselves for self entertainment and really don't care about what others have to say about it. i personally don't give a shit about labels or how some highschool wannabe's decide to give themselves a name, or more accuratly, the people OUTSIDE of the subculture labeling the wrong people the wrong thing. its not a 'label' , and its not an architecture. its a fucking 25 year old lifestyle
KattReMiX 1 year ago
Right!! the goggles, combichrist tat, and the name "virus"!!! WTF....
this guy just doesnt know SHET!!! and all his ideals are sooo fucked up, and that combichrist tat just made me realize hes not a rivethead either!!!
NeonXtacy 2 years ago
Cyber goth isnt a subculture!! cyber goth is nothing but fashion!! cyber style mixed with the goth look! RIvethead is the term...
NeonXtacy 2 years ago
One thing for sure!! YOUR NOT GOTH!!!
NeonXtacy 2 years ago
LOL awesome dude haha and yea you have some good points. there is no true way to determine what goth is and who is goth. nice man
nickythegoth 2 years ago
Aren't goths start in Romania, with Persian culture?
Abduhi 3 years ago
I think that some would lable you a "rivethead". The dark post apocalyptic atmosphere is fundamental to industrial music.
I do agree with you that people should utilize their own creativity. However the other people are correct when they said that the goths are a germanic tribe. The interesting thing is that their main god is Woden who is the god of poetry, magic, and death. How much more goth can you get? w00t! Have a good mate and I wish you the best of luck!
widugeist 3 years ago 3
Nice video, I completely agree, it's all down to a person's interpretation. It frustrates me when "oldschool" goths say you're only goth if you listen to the bands that started it all. How do you progress if you live in the past? And yeah, it's just a label. Convenient when you need to describe someone quickly, but otherwise a waste of time.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
The oldskool goths are right. Industrial music isnt goth music, its just a style of music that alot of goths also like.
Goth is a musical subculture, that means that you are a goth when you listen to goth music. Also, the oldskool bands where the first goths bands and therefor pure. Out of those other styles started like Darkwave, these styles are also still pure goth and therefor remain in the subculture.
Pure EBM and modern Industrial fans are "cyber", not goth. Though goths also like it.
HawK047 3 years ago
Goth is about creativity right? How can you tell goths what to like without repressing their creativity? Goth has evolved. There's music specifically called "gothic", but you shouldn't have to like it to call yourself a goth. Goth has expanded beyond just music into a philosophy and a way of life. "Goth" is a label, a description - not a religion, not a cult, not a uniform culture. Why conform when we've just escaped from the conformity of the masses? This is my objection to gothic purism.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
Purism, exactly! And thats what it should have been, a mere subculture centered around music.
What makes you Goth is an interest in gothic music and gothic clothes, thats it!
Stuff about creativity does not have any connection to goth, its just a skill alot of goths seem to have. Even a chav could be creative.
Conforming? Dude, your getting the point entirely wrong!
Goth is not a subculture for nonconformists. Most real goths clothes like regular people by day when their not clubbing.
HawK047 3 years ago
And in my opinion calling yourself a nonconformist is pure bullshit! Dont we all get out of bed in the morning to work? Dont we all go to the Macdonalds when we want something to eat? Ah, vegetarians.. Even when you're a vegetarian, your conforming with the other vegetarians.
Goth is a musical subculture. Dont like the music? Then youre not a Goth.
Goth was born in the 80's as a subculture based on music, and that has not changed. Dont trust TV to tell you what is Goth. Goth -> Gothic music.
HawK047 3 years ago
Actually the most pure form of goth, before architecture, was a barbarian tribe. There are many goths who would disagree with your definition of what is goth today. You can't say that only one thing is goth, because language changes and evolves, not just subcultures. Creativity has a lot to do with goth, and if you're just copying people in a particular scene, then you're just another teenager giving in to an image.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
Now I of course don't mean only goths are creative. Goths simply have a darker sense of creativity that differs from the mainstream. As for conforming, your example of basic human needs is irrelevant, nonconformism is actually a refusal of the norm. Goths today are free to express themselves the way they want, not conforming to mainstream ideas, and not conforming to the ideas of close-minded teen-goths such as yourself. If you think goth hasn't changed, you're a blind robot living in the past.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
You can believe goth is whatever you want. I haven't seen goth on TV, I've researched it. You can call yourself goth just as a clubber, or you can call youself goth as a lifestyler, or whatever. If you think you're goth, chance is you are goth. Since you call yourself goth, I just wanted to point out that not everyone agrees with you. Goth isn't a cult, there arem't strict rules, and to say so would make many deny that you are goth at all, just a poser going clubbing.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
I'm not a clubber, I don't socialise with many goths, so I don't consider myself part of the main gothic culture. I call myself goth do describe the fact that I have dark interests, dark creativity, dark fashion sense, and dark music tastes. I dress goth when I feel like it, not just to impress some people at a night club. Now sure, tell me I'm not a real goth, there is no such thing as a "real goth". Goth is a label. Get that through your head.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
Goths are not a different kind of human being.. You cant expect all goths to have a sence of creativity that normal people dont have.
Your vision of goth is to closeminded my friend. In your eyes, every goth needs to break away from mainstream ideas, which is ironic because most goths in my area are dressed like everybody else by day.
HawK047 3 years ago
Goth today is not dedicated to the goth tribe. The goth subculture is based on a taste of music called Post-punk and Gothic Rock.
The subculture started with the music as its core, shoving that out would leave a broken subculture. It wouldnt be goth anymore.
I think its also kind of an insult to call a goth kid that loves oldskool bands but isnt creative as a poser and a fake.
Creativity is something that shows up in the subculture, but hell... Its in every damn subculture!
HawK047 3 years ago
Also, the reason i'm on about this is because the subculture is being destroyed with people that claim to be goth wile their not. People that brag about their CoF, Slipknot and Evansence albums as if they were goth bands. Music is important. Fighting that off will destroy the subculture.
HawK047 3 years ago
Now i'm not going to further debate this matter in terms of personality of a goth, because every goth is different. What counts is that a goth is defined from gothic music.
Also, i'm not calling myself a goth at all, unlike other people.
I'm not giving new friends i make the "Hey, i'm goth!" quote.
I just love the music, the clothes, the atmosphere, the clubs and have a darker taste then other people have.
But that last thing doesnt make a man goth.
I'm also very happy in live.
HawK047 3 years ago
I did not say goths are a different species. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote about creativity. Goths don't "need" to break free, because a lot of them already have, regardless of how they dress by day.
Goth today is not the old goth tribe. But goth today is also not restricted to the original music movement either. That was goth yesterday, which people still follow, but is not the only meaning of the word "goth" anymore.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
Sure, goth started with music. But it's not any weaker now that it's diversified. Goth is one of few surviving subcultures. Goth has a lasting appeal that many people can relate to, and saying goths can only be oldschoolers alienates a huge percentage of the gothic community.
And yes. "Poser" is an insult. But that's how many goths today would view someone like you.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
People who "brag" about CDs and specific bands do annoy me I'll agree. Too much band worship for my liking, and that's much more metaller culture in my view. However goths can still like metal. It doesn't weaken gothic culture at all. Like I said before, if you try to cast out these people, goth is more likely to fall, because you've just lost so many people who identify as goth. You're not running an exclusive cult here. Culture is alive, it shifts and changes.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
People thinking because their goth because they seem to like CoF or Slipknot are misinformed by MTV.
hese people are being cast out all the time for a good reason. People dont care how small their subculture is, aslong as people can still feel like home in it.
The new generation of "metalgoths" are destroying it. They are metalheads, not goth.
I mean, what makes a metalhead a metalhead? Exactly! The music and its fashion. Same goes for goth.
On the last part you are only musically correct.
HawK047 3 years ago
I believe you are taking me to seriously on the music part. A goth can listen to whatever he want, aslong as goth is a big part of it.
Also, why do you want to change the subculture so much? "What is Goth" has not changed at all.. Its just the mainstreams view on goth what makes people think the subculture is all about the "feeling"(, which is bullshit in my eyes).
Goth has not changed apart from some music styles being introduced. (Like Darkwave etc.)
Any real goth would tell you that.
HawK047 3 years ago
I'm not trying to change goth. It has changed itself. I accept that there's gothic music, but there's also gothic culture. I don't agree with you that gothic music is the same as gothic culture. The word "culture" includes not just music, but art, beliefs, behaviours amongst other things. "Subculture" includes shared values, attitudes, and customs. Goth culture is not just music. You can like other music and still be goth because it's broader than that.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
You dont understand mate.
Goth has always been occult, dark and different. Goths have always thought a little different in a way that they rather make up their own mind.
There is also art that goths like, movies that goths are attracted to (like The Crow).
But those things fit on the same butten as gothic clothes, you dont exactly need it.
But the subculture itself is based around the music, the other stuff fits in, but should never be a part of what exactly a goth is.
HawK047 3 years ago
Hello, "subculture". Not "music culture". People can be in whatever subculture they want. You can live in the past, that's fine, but you can't drag everyone else back into your supposedly "purist" thinking. There were people who were often called goths in the 18th Century, architecture lovers. Then there were the gothic novels. Gothic fiction inspired Bauhaus to write "Bela Lugosi's Dead", considered to be the birth of gothic music. Goth has a longer history than the music which popularised it.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
Me living in the past? Your living in a dream world buddy.
The subculture is based on the music. Also, ive never read the goth tribe had mohawks, bondage clothing and were good at making dark music.
When do you call people a Metalhead? Right, when they listen to Metal music!
When are people rappers?
Right, when they make or listen to rap!
When are people goths?
Right, when they listen to goth music!
And look at that! They are all subcultures!
Get your facts straight mate.
HawK047 3 years ago 2
I listen to all of those, what am I a metal rapper goth? No. My fashion, my interests, my behavours and my sense of identity are what make me goth and not the rest. And yes, the goth tribe didn't live like goths today, because times change! Duh.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago 2
So now Goth is a tribe? Get your facts straight.
So you listen to goth eh? What did you mean, gothic metal?
Fashion, interests and the other stuff are extra, they are the cherry on the milkshake.
I'm not breaking away from the point that Goth music defines goth from poser, because i am absolutely sure its true.
Stop trying to think up ways to make you look goth, because there is no other way.
Also, labelling yourself is the most poserish thing to do.
See the Goth for dummy's video.
HawK047 3 years ago
I'm not saying goth is a tribe. I'm saying that if you're a "true purist", you're stupidly ignoring what the original pure goth was.
And yeah, I label myself goth simply because it's easier than saying well I listen to this music, dress this way, have these interests, yadda yadda. One word versus a life story? Yes please. I don't intentionally say "how do I make myself look goth". I wear what works for me, and if the label for it is goth, then so be it.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
Now, we're clearly not going to agree here. This argument is rather pointless. How bout you believe in your goth, and I'll stick to mine. I've lost interest in your argument because you just say the same thing over and over and I get it okay, you're absolutely obsessed with the music idea. I'm not changing my opinion either so let's just not go in stupid circles.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago 2
Goth has not originated as a lifestyle, the subculture started out in the 80's with Joy Division and Bauhaus, you cant deny that mate.
I wouldnt hear a metalhead telling others that his subculture is all about the feeling.
Meh, i'm already starting the conversation from the beginning onve again, i would just like to tell you that i too have interests for poetry, clothes, art etc. I just dont count them as goth attributes.
But its fine, i'm through aswell. Screw it.
HawK047 3 years ago
I don't deny that the current goth grew around the music, I just argue it has continued to grow and change, and I never said goth is a feeling. I called it a label and a subculture. I wasn't arguing it started as a lifestyle, but that the music was inspired by existing gothic fiction, although I don't mean it had no punk roots. Just wanted to clear that up.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
That's cool that you have those interests, and if they're not part of your identity as a goth, that's fine. They don't have to be. Not everyone who identifies as goth is the same.
DestroyerMariko 3 years ago
amen brothe, i completely agree
PestileNCe85 2 years ago
when you get the question what is goth, just answer, look up all the deffinitions of goths, if you're interested look at my video goths plain and simple, and it explains all the different deffinitions of goth, it really helps
GoldenValorForm 3 years ago
were you buy those glasses? they are awesomm ^_^
goticos1 3 years ago
Billy Joel FTW!
xorganizationxvx 3 years ago
I don't fit in a box, stop trying to shove everything into a box.....I DONT WANNA GO IN THE DAMN BOX
kdrphoto 3 years ago
goddamned your hot !
love the combichrist tattoo ^^
vampike13 3 years ago
the true goths like Rozz were called post punks or freaks if someone called me a goth i say im a freak!
I am i dont fit the norm goth and the hottopic crap are the norm im a freak end convo.........btw im breaking into your house and stealing your googles as i type....
Enterthedeath 3 years ago
If you do your homework goth or gothic means victorian and a branch off that is vampirics
killerdwarf6666 3 years ago
The modern Goth subculture is centered around the music.
Bands like Bauhaus, The Cure, The Neph and stuff like that..
If youre into stuff like Slipknot, Evanescence, Within Temptation, Cradle of filth and other Metal bands, Goth is not something for you, and youre propably more of a "Spooky Kid" or a "Metalhead", so go hang with those guys instead.
There you have it, I just described Goth in a matter of seconds.
HawK047 3 years ago
@ HawK047 that's why there is metalgoths -_-
GoldenValorForm 3 years ago
Lol, metalgoths... xD
Are you serious about that one? Do you seriously have the idea that Metal music is related to the Goth subculture?
You have been misinformed by the media with their so called "Gothic" music like Marilyn Manson, HIM, Cradle of Filth and Evanescence.
PS: when your in a Goth club, better not ask for those kind of bands. You will be laughed at.
HawK047 3 years ago
um yea, you can be a goth and still listen to cradle of filth, evanescence, ect. you can't say someone is less goth because they don't listen to the same music you do, i mean i see what you're going at, but there is such a thing as metalgoth, they are fans of both goth music as well as metal music, but goth is still based around bands like sisters of mercy, sex gang children (personal favorite), alien sex fiend, The 69 eyes (for modern goth they're not bad), as well as christian death (kick ass)
GoldenValorForm 3 years ago 2
Metalgoths.. Keep clinging to that...
You cannot be a goth if your main musical taste isnt goth music.
If you like the clothing style, wear it, just dont call yourself a goth cause youll be laughed at.
What are people trying to prove anyway? Why do they so desperatly want to be goth?
Its just a subculture based on music, with a fitting clothing style, stuff like art are totally taste driven, you dont need it. You kids out there are welcome to jump around like a happy rabbit, wont hurt.xD
HawK047 3 years ago
oh, please excuse my babybat friend here, this is the person who did the video goths plain and simple, the owner of this does the editing on the videos, anyways, i think what he meant to say was that with metalgoths they listen to a balance of goth and metal, but they would perfer goth music over everything else, like my self, i'm an old-school, i like metal music, but i would much perfer listenong to the sisters of mercy, or sexgangchildren over anything, so again, sorry about babybats comments
GoldenValorForm 3 years ago
Dont take my words too seriously mate. And its not big deal. I just think that in order to keep the subculture alive and original, the music should be kept in sacred.
HawK047 3 years ago
agreed my friend, goth music should be treated with care, and not tried to be changed into something different, bands like sisters of mercy alien sexfiend, nosferatu, specimen, should still be noticed, but like you sad, bands like CoF, HIM, NightWish, etc, cause people to think that they are gothic style bands, don't get me wrong they're fine bands, but they could never replace the classics
GoldenValorForm 3 years ago
Exactly!
HawK047 3 years ago
so yea, this is my own account for videos i make myself so i won't get confused for being him
PestileNCe85 3 years ago
Hot Topic, the darker side of Sears
Animatronicon 3 years ago
HIM on one arm, and Combichrist on the other. Cyberpunk Goggles... Vest...
Industrial ... Uber...
Nice Mix, props.
odineu 3 years ago
*dies of laughter* omg...and I thought your emails were funny! Next time I'm depressed I'm gonna come watch this video again. lmao
Lizbeth218 3 years ago
what is a cybergoth?
Buritsu 3 years ago
google it.
Basically, mix a goth and a raver together
oneofzone6 3 years ago
Is Brett Michaels a goth ?
fukinblowme 4 years ago
OMG...I have gotten that "What is Goth?" question SOOOOOOOO many times! It's so annoying, because I never know how to answer it, especially on the spot like that...it's just like "How much time do you have?" lol. I enjoyed your thoughts on it =)
I dress "Goth", but I don't consider myself a "Goth"...I just get labeled as such because of how I look...kinda annoying.
You're cute =)
LeahMouse 4 years ago
haha, i friggen love you buddyyy! I should send you the vids i took of you and everyone sometime! ^_^ Those were fuckin hilarious!
Dimmuborgir132000 4 years ago
so....in your links in says "cybergoth"....do you consider yourself a cybergoth?
oneofzone6 4 years ago