Sorry to "spam" you (does this count as spamming?) but I am trying to get the word out about my petition against Bic's Soleil ladies razor advertisements.
For the first time ever, I am standing up against the way woman are portrayed in marketing, and I need your help. Please check out my petition, and sign if you feel the same way.
@stagecrewjenni Oh shut the fuck up, go find a tampon for your bleeding heart, there are bigger issues out here. People die every fucking day and you're on here spamming about some feminist bullshit? Go fuck yourself.
@grandmasterreggaex You're so right, I could be better spending my time replying to comments on youtube I disagree with and make ridiculous presumptuous points against their message that no one in their right mind would give any heed to. Clearly you're making a global effort to better the world. Bravo.
there is nothing genius about Noam Chomsky, well at least I hope not. Cause what he's stating is just blindly obvious for any observer who knows one or two things about logic. I am getting the impression that the only reason he's popular is because of rejecting the severe fabrications of events that takes place on US media, but even then,, the educated should have access to raw untempered material. I am worried to think that people are not minding injustice just like the imperialists didn't.
@semo2010 Your right although he is very smart and actually takes the time to look up all these things, and he is aware of like everything lol.
But your right he doesn't make anything up or invent it, it is true facts. Unfortunately these facts are often not presented to the majority of the population, the media usually follows views of the elite as does the gvt, because those are the ppl who run the US and even the world.
He even says in his books that most of the academic scolarship in the US
YouTube censors the crap out of my comments - I have tried to post one several times regarding divisive comments and solutions to no avail yet they allowed others...
In answer to the question as to whether or not we are more or less civilised: We th people are, but as for the ruling group:
Youtube is going very slow. I think it takes atleast a day before they post your comments. I don't know how long that will last but that happened to me too.
The best analogy I have heard to date for governmental left and right 'democratic options' is that of one of the psychopathic, parasitic and ruthless Rothschilds/Rockefellers with one puppet on either hand distracting everyone from their intergenerational global/universal domination/NWO governmental agenda.
Even though I agree with Chomsky in relation to his view of anti-war activism that developed before war even started. I agree more with Slavoj Zizek in this issue. Zizek stated that anti-war activism in U.S. played this strange role of maintaining orders with those who are pro-war through exercising different opinions as if by demonstrating, they played their "roles" and "duty". But reality was, nothing was changed.
Where would intellectuals such as Chomsky be today if the US followed a policy of nonaggresion in WW2? Do you think he would be "pro war" if he was in a forced labor camp in Poland in 1943? Would you have refused to fight in WW2? Is war ever justified or are you too "intellectual" for that?
of course I wouldn't support brutality towards police officers but i certainly oppose brutality done by policemen to civilians which is not that uncommon.
Activism's very important.I'm an Activist& feel with all the injustices I've no choice but to be one because I truly care about&love my fellow human beings.I know that many want things to be fair to some¬ all.This' what I fight for.I want all God's children to have equal rights& to be treated with respect.For example,I fight Police Brutality but never tolerate anyone shooting a cop doing his job .When Police are shot,I get up no matter what time it is to go& support them!GOD BLESS GOOD COPS!
The sad fact is that Norm Chomski is hated by both the LEFT (Neo-liberals) and RIGHT (Neo-conservatives) in American politics...reguardless of his contribution to 21st century social political thought. In any case it dosent matter, what matters is that he was able to articulate the very nature of power mechanisms and structures within western ideological governmental and corporational ruling systems..as well as the fundamental rules that such powers adear to..ULTIMATELY showing the injustice.
Those aren't simply "labels" which "they use to divide and conquer." Those two spectrum don't even share same interests. If you are serious about politic, you have to understand where you really stand. Right or Left?
@unorthodoxtrotsky I don't agree with you at all. I believe if the American people had all the facts about the war very few if any would support it. I also believe a lot of people in the US inherit their political positions from their parents. It is obvious that the Republican party is anti middle class yet they receive wide support from those in the middle. Their tax programs tend to help the wealthy and very wealthy. So people gravitate towards politics of comfort whether they are served.
I personally don't see any relevant with what I wrote and your reply. I agree with you in almost every aspects. Except one. Most of Americans are from working class family and not middle class. Majority of Americans(both our parents' generation as well as us) make living by working as employee for employers. And in this aspect not only Republican Party is anti-middle class but they are anti-working class and "[t]heir tax programs tend to help the wealthy and very wealthy."
But so does Democratic Party. Common misunderstanding about U.S. politic is that Republicans are Right-wing(which is correct) and Democrats are Left-wing(which is wrong). There is faction in Democratic Party called "Progressive Democrats of American" who basically want to take over Democratic Party and turn it into Leftist party. As you rightfully said most people in U.S. would have opposed war in Iraq if they were fully informed about war. And that is Left-wing spectrum.
That basically shows how little you know about politic. Different social interests are the ones that divide people to "Right" and "Left". It's not simply "terms". If activism shall develop in mass we have to be rigorously clear about where we stand - "Right" or "Left". Although there were Right wing such as Milton Friedman who opposed war in Iraq, it is mostly those who are part of Left wing who oppose war.
That basically shows how little you know about human character. "Right" and "Left" are just politically correct terms for ""Us" and "Them". I don't make decisions based on preconceived notions, popular belief or group think.
You obviously don't know much about politic. It is very obvious that "Right" and "Left" do distinguish themselves as "us" and "them"(just like anything else) but you can't deny that there are political ideas and related social interests in these two political spectrum. One of basic beliefs that Right-wing have is "individual freedom". But they value it in terms of "free market". For Right-wing this is greatest form of "democracy" because it maximize individuals' capacity.
But for Left-wing, such values of individual competition within free market basically lead to monopoly and this creates few rich who controls industries and market while leaving mass marginalized and oppressed. Left-wing emphasis is not only "individual freedom" but also "individual rights". They supports trade unions for workers' participation. They also supports for rights such as education, healthcare and welfare and so on.
Right-wings also use rhetoric of supporting "traditional values" while Left-wing debunking it by saying that basically means supporting "traditional power structure" and advocates for oppressed groups such as women, racial minority, immigrants and LGBT. Due to the value of "individual freedom", Right-wing also have tendency to deny the existence of racism and sexism by emphasizing "individual" rather than race, gender and/or class. "Right" and "Left" aren't simply "terms".
I'm a political activist and I am a Leftist. When ever I go to conferences or demonstration for Palestinian struggles, struggles for women's right to have abortion, struggle against racism, sexism and homophobia as well as defending for healthcare and education, are there any Right wings with us demonstrating for same cause? No. They are normally in opposite side opposing where we stand.
I see you have resorted to a tautological argument. Those who don't agree with you are, by definition, "right wing" and must therefore be wrong. I thought liberals were supposed to be open minded and respectful of diversity. True diversity means that people will have different views on issues and your view is no more important than another's despite what you may believe.
Do you believe that the US should have used military force against the Nazis? Answer the question.
It's not a tautological argument. There are plenty of Leftists who I don't agree with. I disagree with many things that Chomsky say but overall I still have respect for him. You seem to reduce all the issues into a matter of "opinion" and/or "perspectives". I don't think Nazis are "wrong" simply because gthey have different view than mine. I think they are "wrong" due to their dangerous ideological views and it have shown its danger.
I think you are not understanding this spectrum. If I don't support war in Iraq, does that makes Saddam Hussein a Leftist? No. "Right" and "Left" is determined by political ideas not whether one is enemy of those who claim to be what ever spectrum that they are in. There have been many times in history where Right-wing leaders have went to war against each others. Bush vs. Hussein as well as Roosevelt and Churchill vs. Hitler and Mussolini.
These are really loaded questions. LOL I think I already answered the parts of "Right" and "Left". To make very simple answeres, "Right" is those who supports top few who owns the industries and "Left" is those who supports bottom population who represents majority in society. One of Right-wing manifesto is "What is good for GM is good for America." while Left-wing supports trade union which is workers' organization. And Tyrants are oppressors against majority. lol
Let me answer 4 and 5 together very simply and they are terribly loaded question. lol There is war in Iraq. Whether it is U.S. troops for Iraqi resistance. Who's "war" is "justified"? I will say Iraqi resistance because while U.S. is in Iraq as occupation, Iraqi resistance are fighting for liberation. I personally hope none of Islamic fundamentalists will take over a country but regardless, I recognize the position of resistance as being "justified" while occupiers aren't.
No. Nazis were occupiers of other European countries. Nazis rose to power by eliminating socialists and trade unions. They banned Communist Party and also ideologically dehumanized homosexuals. They were imperialist power who idealized collectivism to mobilize the people under the servitude of state power. Racism was their foundation and massacred Jews and other Europeans. Nazis stands for everything that I oppose.
If that is the case, I would have supported war in Iraq. U.S. role of military intervention of other countries regardless of their leaders are Right or Left wings, have imperialist motive. And I will not support it. When would I ever support a war> First I will concentrate more on democratic reform of U.S. and try to develop solidarity with people of other countries who are also struggling for their own democracy.
If U.S. ruling establishment have been democratically overthrown as U.S. economic resources are controlled by trade unions and people have more power on political decision making, I will support the idea of military intervention against tyranny of other country ONLY if ONE, majority of people in U.S. agrees on it and TWO, if people of that other country welcomes it as they too unite with us to eliminate their leader so they too can make democratic establishment.
@unorthodoxtrotsky I agree but the problem is that the US since WW2 has consistently military intervened in countries to overthrown democratically elected gvts to instaure dictatorships and basically maintain elite ruling. Those who are favorable to US interests and will keep their markets open and provide resources the US needs. This has been true worldwide for years.
I totally agree. But I don't understand the point of such reply. Did I wrote something that gave you an impression that I was denying U.S. imperialist motive of military intervention?
I said I am a Leftist not a "liberal". "Liberals" are more of Right wing in political spectrum. Should U.S. have used military force against the Nazis? What's this got to do with this debate? You asked this before which was totally irrelevant to my statement. I'm little bit confused with such reaction from you.
It depends on. Is military aggression done in the name of "democracy" while it actually had imperialist motive? Than I will say "No" because that will just replace oppression to another oppression - like in Iraq. Iraqi people are free from Saddam Hussein through U.S. intervention but are now suffering from U.S. occupation. I favor struggling for political change in THIS country before I worry about political change in other countr(y)ies.
If people are in charge of this country and people of other country is suffering from repressive regime. I will favor military force on that country AS LONG AS there is struggles for liberation from people there and there is solidarity with them and people in this country against their regime. But if that's not the case, than I will not support it - like the cases in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now I'm confused! You say that you demonstrate for Palestinian's rights as well as women's right to abortion and you struggle against sexism and homophobia but Palestinians don't recognize women's rights and their faith does not allow for the acceptance of homosexuality.
LOL There are some issues that are being conflicted. For example if I oppose U.S. imperialism and at same time supports gay right to serve in army, am I not supporting gay's right to support U.S. imperialism? lol Some Left actually think it is useless to fight for gay right to serve in army. I don't. Suppose if I oppose racism(as I do) and also oppose sexual assault against women, what should I do if skinhead woman is about to get raped?
Should I let her get raped because I oppose racism or should I defend her from sexual assault even though she supports racism which I oppose? I will defend her from sexual assault as I will with every other women regardless of her views. This is also true with defending a black man from hate crime even if he is sexist. I may oppose their views but I still will defend for their RIGHT for their own safety. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive to each others.
This is true with Palestinian issue. I think you were somewhat generalizing when you said "Palestinians don't recognize women's rights" because there are Palestinians who do. (I could be wrong but)In my opinion, women's movement seem to be more stronger in Middle East these days than their Western counterpart. There are Palestinian Leftist who oppose Hamas because of their denial of recognizing women's rights. And this is also true with homosexuality.
Even though issues related with homosexuality is relatively small(compare to women's issue) in Arab world, there are silenced homosexuals who also struggle against this. Some Muslims oppose homosexuality as a "sin" and some think that it is their rights. And like it is with women's issue, issues with homosexuality is still open issues from koranic debate. But regardless, I do oppose any Palestinians who don't recognize both women's and homosexuals' right.
However we are dealing with the issues related with right to self-determination of Palestinians from Israeli occupation. And I think that is right every nations should have regardless of other internal bias that might exist. So as much as I will oppose sexism and homophobia that exist among Palestinians, it is their right for self-determination that I will support.
This war and the sacrifice of patriotic men and women is an affront to any sense of justice or dignity. When I heard the Bush rhetoric and was convinced he was going in regardless of WMDs' I wrote a letter to the president and both my state senators imploring them to stay out of Iraq. Being a former paratrooper after I graduated HS I was appalled that our young people in the military would be sacrificed for what? When the rich kidsdie whos' parents profit from these disgusting wars they will end
@mabell01 Unfortunately I believe it's a little darker than that. Who profits from war? War is a great business for the likes of the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds. Even HW cut a fat hog running Carlyle Group with all of the defense contractors that group owns. I call that blood money!
@larry1369 I knew that. I think it's important to look at trading my child's safety for my support(if I was rich which I'm not). It's really difficult for wealthy parents(especially mom) to argue against. I think it's real important to note.
@larry1369 hey larry, its the rich middle class kids who are the only ones who ever get off their ass and actually do something to change things, like the Youth movement in the 60s. which was, mostly rich middle class kids who actually stopped complaining and did something. so you should respect the middle class instead of just spouting your class hatred, wishing the 'rich kids' would 'die'. maybe you shouldn't hate people for their class.
@Krakko44 Seems like you are having trouble distinguishing between the rich and the middle class. I would argue it was not the rich or upper class but rather the vast middle class which mobilized to protest things like Vietnam and environmental issues in the 60's and 70's. The rich have a lot of ways to keep their kids from serving even during a war.
If gift economy was an improvement on parecon in some respect then a transition might make sense. But that is unclear to me. How does a gift economy improve opon Parecon?
Bullshit folks, this doesn't matter a bit. Please, take a closer look at Nietzsche, where it is all contain, corral, control, this is where is are at now..... Please, pay attention, we are there now.
i hope I haven't misrepresented aspects of a gift economy.
The point I hope I made was that large-scale industrial production is not innately contradictory to humane values of equity, solidarity, sustainability, etc. Industrial production can be alientaing, inhumane, unsustainable, homogenous or it can be fulfilling, humane, sustainable and diverse - it all depends on the economic system it exists in.
In capitalism, industry is opposed to all those things because profit is the guiding motive.
Several years ago, Americans were very active, and huge anti-war protests happened around this country, not sure why they stopped, but it could be the fact that the media barely covered them.
perhaps, but I think it's actually because he is morally opposed to the institution of the presidency, not because he speaks the truth.
Planting a single person in a massively distorted, anti-democratic apparatus won't solve the problem. Chomsky has admitted that if he was president nothing would change. It's changing the structures that needs to happen. Replacing capitalism with Parecon, etc - that would improve the world. We need a movement with an alternate vision of the future.
The reason I like participatory economics is because it's neither capitalistic or state socialist -- most people think that there are only two things.
However, I also like the idea of a gift economy. I believe there should be a post-revolutionary transition from anarcho syndicalism (with participatory economics) to anarcho communism (with a gift economy).
i can see the superficial appeal of a gift economy, for sure. Person to person interaction, decentralised, non-authoritarian, etc.
However, a gift economy would effectively get rid of economies of scale associated with large-scale industrial production, creating duplication of effort and much innefficiency. I think parecon is ideal because it mixes the efficiency of large-scale industrial production with the non-heirarchical, participatory planning we associate with something like a gift economy
I believe in environmental sustainability, but I don't believe we should de-industrialise just for the sake of it.
There is no reason why we can't plan an entire economy (production/consumption) co-operatively with everybody getting a say in proportion to the degree they are effected. Where can a gift economy improve on that? There will always be a place for informal neighbourhood swapping, perhaps, but I don't think it should be the basis of an economy small or large.
I always thought of participatory economics under something such as syndicalism as industrial, whereas more steps would have to be put into place to sustain the environment and our health.
I'm not a primitivist either, I just mentioned that gift economies are simpler on much smaller scales (such as like in tribes, where they may have been in place).
ok, cool. I still reckon participatory planning works fine at any given level. Until I can see where gift economies improve upon an aspect of parecon i don't really see the point of them. I'm just wondering what norms a gift economy would have for determining consumption rights or for remunerating people who produce stuff - would ppl be compensated for effort and sacrifice during labour or output and market power?
Careful, now -- you're talking like a capitalist (money money money). lol
I suppose they would be compensated for effort, sacrifice and market power. You keep what you need of what you made and give out the rest -- everyone does this (oversimplification).
fair enough. Tribes would already (I'm guessing) operate like that, wouldn't they? Is a gift economy by definition a subsistence economy? How would the surplus be managed - would people be trusted to keep just what they need and give everything else to others? what would determine who would give what to who - or is this informally arranged? If it is informally arranged, what's to stop people from finding arrangements which are mutually beneficial but leave others worse off? transparency..?
I know that tribal economies operating on a "gift" model can also facilitate inequalities - like the best parts of the meat from a group catch going to a prominent family within the tribe - or similar. Without explicit structures to govern consumption rights and organise work, unjust dynamics could develop.
My main concern is basically that a gift economy might violate the norm that everybody should have control over decision-making to the extent that they are effected by said decisions.
Point taken. I'm still learning a lot about what's going on, but have been doing research. I DO know that our country has a semi dark past that isn't generally known by the general public of America. I know George W Bush had intention of invading Iraq before 9/11, and that his grandfather Prescott Bush helped fund Adolf Hitler to power. I also believe Pearl Harbor was intentionally provoked as a reason to enter WWII so that weapons manufacturers could profit.
Than you know way more than the average American.. I'm very glad you've been doing your research. It's a shame Americans aren't simply outraged by now for what the US elites have done to and "for" our country... We need to get the message heard.
It's not necessarily George Bush that needs to be replaced, though. Even if we had the most brilliant man in office, nothing would change. It's the oppressive, capitalistic and hierarchical system that is wrong and keeps progressive change from happening.
Although i am an atheist, the more i see Chomsky delivering insane lectures, the more i see the parallells between him and so many other great orators that go against elitist opinion. Socrates, Jesus etc...
Americans: Do the world a favour, write in Noam Chomsky and Ralph Nader the next federal election. Your foreign policy will be cleaned up and so will your air.
RE:"Most people here view not voting Democrat will be "throwing your vote away."
I guess, if you really believe that the Democratic party is really all that seperate from the Republican party... Although I admit it would be, at the very least, an impressive gesture of growth on the part of the American ppl should they elect a president that is black.
I don't see them as that much different. I am upset at my friends who will vote Obama because he gives universal healthcare (which he does not).
What I keep telling people is that just because he's black will not ensure that he will have black (or minotiry) interests in his policy. For example, he wants to make it illegal for a person to not have health insurance--not universal healthcare. Nothing radical there, in fact, just the opposite.
This man is one of the most realistic thinkers I have ever known of in my entire life.
The propaganda machine, which he points out, is a massive, monstrous problem that has gone out of control to the point where there has been NO journalism on "news" channels.
no shit. this is why i spend my time editing leaflets with chomsky's writing and distributing them on the subway educating. do you do anything to fight this outside of youtube comments?
Whilst I do think Noam Chomsky is one of the best intellectuals of our time I think we should realise that, as he frequently states, unearthing the information he does is not an especially demanding task. It's time for us to pull our fingers out and start emulating him on top of praising him.
I hope he lives to be 100 we really cant aford to loose him at this time. He does have a great legacy of writing, speeches and video. That is an asset for the future.
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nobody3694 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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thenfm 11 months ago
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stagecrewjenni 1 year ago
@stagecrewjenni Oh shut the fuck up, go find a tampon for your bleeding heart, there are bigger issues out here. People die every fucking day and you're on here spamming about some feminist bullshit? Go fuck yourself.
grandmasterreggaex 6 months ago
@grandmasterreggaex You're so right, I could be better spending my time replying to comments on youtube I disagree with and make ridiculous presumptuous points against their message that no one in their right mind would give any heed to. Clearly you're making a global effort to better the world. Bravo.
stagecrewjenni 6 months ago
@stagecrewjenni Thank yew, thank yew.
grandmasterreggaex 6 months ago
"In a time of Universal deceit; telling the truth is a revolutionary act" ~ George Orwell
The truth does set one free: do your part <3 Peace/Wa Salaam
TruthSeekerCA 1 year ago
*THANKS* for uploading this interesting clip !
--
recorded (aired?) WHEN? and (taken from?) where?
(please provide more info! (preferably in the video's description))
wda013 1 year ago
why is there a hitler video on the 'recommended video' list on the side?
0.0
???
salro99 1 year ago
there is nothing genius about Noam Chomsky, well at least I hope not. Cause what he's stating is just blindly obvious for any observer who knows one or two things about logic. I am getting the impression that the only reason he's popular is because of rejecting the severe fabrications of events that takes place on US media, but even then,, the educated should have access to raw untempered material. I am worried to think that people are not minding injustice just like the imperialists didn't.
semo2010 1 year ago
@semo2010 Your right although he is very smart and actually takes the time to look up all these things, and he is aware of like everything lol.
But your right he doesn't make anything up or invent it, it is true facts. Unfortunately these facts are often not presented to the majority of the population, the media usually follows views of the elite as does the gvt, because those are the ppl who run the US and even the world.
He even says in his books that most of the academic scolarship in the US
xdeliriumx1 1 year ago
@semo2010 doesn't go very far beyond this type of info, doesn't challenge this enough.
The interests of the people, real democracy are things foreign to those who run things, you never see people like Chomsky on CNN or Fox lol
xdeliriumx1 1 year ago
YouTube censors the crap out of my comments - I have tried to post one several times regarding divisive comments and solutions to no avail yet they allowed others...
In answer to the question as to whether or not we are more or less civilised: We th people are, but as for the ruling group:
Jokertattooo 1 year ago
@Jokertattooo
Youtube is going very slow. I think it takes atleast a day before they post your comments. I don't know how long that will last but that happened to me too.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
Just as uncivilized, better at doublespeak, deception, PR, propaganda pumped to us via the completely controlled media.
Jokertattooo 1 year ago
The best analogy I have heard to date for governmental left and right 'democratic options' is that of one of the psychopathic, parasitic and ruthless Rothschilds/Rockefellers with one puppet on either hand distracting everyone from their intergenerational global/universal domination/NWO governmental agenda.
Jokertattooo 1 year ago
Even though I agree with Chomsky in relation to his view of anti-war activism that developed before war even started. I agree more with Slavoj Zizek in this issue. Zizek stated that anti-war activism in U.S. played this strange role of maintaining orders with those who are pro-war through exercising different opinions as if by demonstrating, they played their "roles" and "duty". But reality was, nothing was changed.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
Where would intellectuals such as Chomsky be today if the US followed a policy of nonaggresion in WW2? Do you think he would be "pro war" if he was in a forced labor camp in Poland in 1943? Would you have refused to fight in WW2? Is war ever justified or are you too "intellectual" for that?
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
I beg Chomsky to analyze/research the Zeitgeist movement to see that it addresses both the root causes and SOLUTIONS to these problems.
Please support the movement and the Venus project. It's scientifically the best alternative.
blaziermissy 2 years ago
of course I wouldn't support brutality towards police officers but i certainly oppose brutality done by policemen to civilians which is not that uncommon.
xdeliriumx1 2 years ago
Activism's very important.I'm an Activist& feel with all the injustices I've no choice but to be one because I truly care about&love my fellow human beings.I know that many want things to be fair to some¬ all.This' what I fight for.I want all God's children to have equal rights& to be treated with respect.For example,I fight Police Brutality but never tolerate anyone shooting a cop doing his job .When Police are shot,I get up no matter what time it is to go& support them!GOD BLESS GOOD COPS!
victoriamarystong 2 years ago
Do you believe that all wars are unjust?
Eurotrash4367 2 years ago
im defenetly on noams arch
juanpolar 2 years ago
is he exaggerrating?
Even Korean war had student riots; heck so did vietnam.
And 1970? They didnt call it "the sixties" for nothing...
SUpersaiyajinjerkbag 2 years ago
The sad fact is that Norm Chomski is hated by both the LEFT (Neo-liberals) and RIGHT (Neo-conservatives) in American politics...reguardless of his contribution to 21st century social political thought. In any case it dosent matter, what matters is that he was able to articulate the very nature of power mechanisms and structures within western ideological governmental and corporational ruling systems..as well as the fundamental rules that such powers adear to..ULTIMATELY showing the injustice.
bloodcell9 2 years ago
When we stop looking at each other in terms of "Right and Left" than we will make progress.
Eurotrash4367 2 years ago 2
Very true, these are labels they use to divide and conquer.
larry1369 2 years ago
very true too, and just add on start:
to confuse, to divide and to conquer
JeZaJaws 2 years ago
@larry1369
Those aren't simply "labels" which "they use to divide and conquer." Those two spectrum don't even share same interests. If you are serious about politic, you have to understand where you really stand. Right or Left?
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky I don't agree with you at all. I believe if the American people had all the facts about the war very few if any would support it. I also believe a lot of people in the US inherit their political positions from their parents. It is obvious that the Republican party is anti middle class yet they receive wide support from those in the middle. Their tax programs tend to help the wealthy and very wealthy. So people gravitate towards politics of comfort whether they are served.
larry1369 1 year ago
@larry1369
I personally don't see any relevant with what I wrote and your reply. I agree with you in almost every aspects. Except one. Most of Americans are from working class family and not middle class. Majority of Americans(both our parents' generation as well as us) make living by working as employee for employers. And in this aspect not only Republican Party is anti-middle class but they are anti-working class and "[t]heir tax programs tend to help the wealthy and very wealthy."
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@larry1369
But so does Democratic Party. Common misunderstanding about U.S. politic is that Republicans are Right-wing(which is correct) and Democrats are Left-wing(which is wrong). There is faction in Democratic Party called "Progressive Democrats of American" who basically want to take over Democratic Party and turn it into Leftist party. As you rightfully said most people in U.S. would have opposed war in Iraq if they were fully informed about war. And that is Left-wing spectrum.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
That basically shows how little you know about politic. Different social interests are the ones that divide people to "Right" and "Left". It's not simply "terms". If activism shall develop in mass we have to be rigorously clear about where we stand - "Right" or "Left". Although there were Right wing such as Milton Friedman who opposed war in Iraq, it is mostly those who are part of Left wing who oppose war.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky
That basically shows how little you know about human character. "Right" and "Left" are just politically correct terms for ""Us" and "Them". I don't make decisions based on preconceived notions, popular belief or group think.
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
You obviously don't know much about politic. It is very obvious that "Right" and "Left" do distinguish themselves as "us" and "them"(just like anything else) but you can't deny that there are political ideas and related social interests in these two political spectrum. One of basic beliefs that Right-wing have is "individual freedom". But they value it in terms of "free market". For Right-wing this is greatest form of "democracy" because it maximize individuals' capacity.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
But for Left-wing, such values of individual competition within free market basically lead to monopoly and this creates few rich who controls industries and market while leaving mass marginalized and oppressed. Left-wing emphasis is not only "individual freedom" but also "individual rights". They supports trade unions for workers' participation. They also supports for rights such as education, healthcare and welfare and so on.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
Right-wings also use rhetoric of supporting "traditional values" while Left-wing debunking it by saying that basically means supporting "traditional power structure" and advocates for oppressed groups such as women, racial minority, immigrants and LGBT. Due to the value of "individual freedom", Right-wing also have tendency to deny the existence of racism and sexism by emphasizing "individual" rather than race, gender and/or class. "Right" and "Left" aren't simply "terms".
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
I'm a political activist and I am a Leftist. When ever I go to conferences or demonstration for Palestinian struggles, struggles for women's right to have abortion, struggle against racism, sexism and homophobia as well as defending for healthcare and education, are there any Right wings with us demonstrating for same cause? No. They are normally in opposite side opposing where we stand.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky
I see you have resorted to a tautological argument. Those who don't agree with you are, by definition, "right wing" and must therefore be wrong. I thought liberals were supposed to be open minded and respectful of diversity. True diversity means that people will have different views on issues and your view is no more important than another's despite what you may believe.
Do you believe that the US should have used military force against the Nazis? Answer the question.
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
@Eurotrash43
It's not a tautological argument. There are plenty of Leftists who I don't agree with. I disagree with many things that Chomsky say but overall I still have respect for him. You seem to reduce all the issues into a matter of "opinion" and/or "perspectives". I don't think Nazis are "wrong" simply because gthey have different view than mine. I think they are "wrong" due to their dangerous ideological views and it have shown its danger.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky
If you don't agree than who is the real leftist, you or them?
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
I think you are not understanding this spectrum. If I don't support war in Iraq, does that makes Saddam Hussein a Leftist? No. "Right" and "Left" is determined by political ideas not whether one is enemy of those who claim to be what ever spectrum that they are in. There have been many times in history where Right-wing leaders have went to war against each others. Bush vs. Hussein as well as Roosevelt and Churchill vs. Hitler and Mussolini.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky
Perhaps we need to agree on semantics before we continue our discussion. Please define the following terms:
1.Right
2.Left
3.Tyrant
4.Justified
5.War
PS. I'm not as well educated as you so please make your definitions as clear and concise as possible.
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
These are really loaded questions. LOL I think I already answered the parts of "Right" and "Left". To make very simple answeres, "Right" is those who supports top few who owns the industries and "Left" is those who supports bottom population who represents majority in society. One of Right-wing manifesto is "What is good for GM is good for America." while Left-wing supports trade union which is workers' organization. And Tyrants are oppressors against majority. lol
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
Let me answer 4 and 5 together very simply and they are terribly loaded question. lol There is war in Iraq. Whether it is U.S. troops for Iraqi resistance. Who's "war" is "justified"? I will say Iraqi resistance because while U.S. is in Iraq as occupation, Iraqi resistance are fighting for liberation. I personally hope none of Islamic fundamentalists will take over a country but regardless, I recognize the position of resistance as being "justified" while occupiers aren't.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky
Well you must be proud of the Nazis since they resisted the allied invasion of Germany with such vigor.
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
No. Nazis were occupiers of other European countries. Nazis rose to power by eliminating socialists and trade unions. They banned Communist Party and also ideologically dehumanized homosexuals. They were imperialist power who idealized collectivism to mobilize the people under the servitude of state power. Racism was their foundation and massacred Jews and other Europeans. Nazis stands for everything that I oppose.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky
So you do approve of military intervention by the US against other nations as long as the government of that nation is right wing?
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
If that is the case, I would have supported war in Iraq. U.S. role of military intervention of other countries regardless of their leaders are Right or Left wings, have imperialist motive. And I will not support it. When would I ever support a war> First I will concentrate more on democratic reform of U.S. and try to develop solidarity with people of other countries who are also struggling for their own democracy.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
If U.S. ruling establishment have been democratically overthrown as U.S. economic resources are controlled by trade unions and people have more power on political decision making, I will support the idea of military intervention against tyranny of other country ONLY if ONE, majority of people in U.S. agrees on it and TWO, if people of that other country welcomes it as they too unite with us to eliminate their leader so they too can make democratic establishment.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky I agree but the problem is that the US since WW2 has consistently military intervened in countries to overthrown democratically elected gvts to instaure dictatorships and basically maintain elite ruling. Those who are favorable to US interests and will keep their markets open and provide resources the US needs. This has been true worldwide for years.
xdeliriumx1 1 year ago
@xdeliriumx1
I totally agree. But I don't understand the point of such reply. Did I wrote something that gave you an impression that I was denying U.S. imperialist motive of military intervention?
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
I said I am a Leftist not a "liberal". "Liberals" are more of Right wing in political spectrum. Should U.S. have used military force against the Nazis? What's this got to do with this debate? You asked this before which was totally irrelevant to my statement. I'm little bit confused with such reaction from you.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky
Do you believe that military force is justified as a means to cause political change in other nations?
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
It depends on. Is military aggression done in the name of "democracy" while it actually had imperialist motive? Than I will say "No" because that will just replace oppression to another oppression - like in Iraq. Iraqi people are free from Saddam Hussein through U.S. intervention but are now suffering from U.S. occupation. I favor struggling for political change in THIS country before I worry about political change in other countr(y)ies.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
If people are in charge of this country and people of other country is suffering from repressive regime. I will favor military force on that country AS LONG AS there is struggles for liberation from people there and there is solidarity with them and people in this country against their regime. But if that's not the case, than I will not support it - like the cases in Iraq and Afghanistan.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@unorthodoxtrotsky
Now I'm confused! You say that you demonstrate for Palestinian's rights as well as women's right to abortion and you struggle against sexism and homophobia but Palestinians don't recognize women's rights and their faith does not allow for the acceptance of homosexuality.
Eurotrash4367 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
LOL There are some issues that are being conflicted. For example if I oppose U.S. imperialism and at same time supports gay right to serve in army, am I not supporting gay's right to support U.S. imperialism? lol Some Left actually think it is useless to fight for gay right to serve in army. I don't. Suppose if I oppose racism(as I do) and also oppose sexual assault against women, what should I do if skinhead woman is about to get raped?
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
Should I let her get raped because I oppose racism or should I defend her from sexual assault even though she supports racism which I oppose? I will defend her from sexual assault as I will with every other women regardless of her views. This is also true with defending a black man from hate crime even if he is sexist. I may oppose their views but I still will defend for their RIGHT for their own safety. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive to each others.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
This is true with Palestinian issue. I think you were somewhat generalizing when you said "Palestinians don't recognize women's rights" because there are Palestinians who do. (I could be wrong but)In my opinion, women's movement seem to be more stronger in Middle East these days than their Western counterpart. There are Palestinian Leftist who oppose Hamas because of their denial of recognizing women's rights. And this is also true with homosexuality.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
Even though issues related with homosexuality is relatively small(compare to women's issue) in Arab world, there are silenced homosexuals who also struggle against this. Some Muslims oppose homosexuality as a "sin" and some think that it is their rights. And like it is with women's issue, issues with homosexuality is still open issues from koranic debate. But regardless, I do oppose any Palestinians who don't recognize both women's and homosexuals' right.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
@Eurotrash4367
However we are dealing with the issues related with right to self-determination of Palestinians from Israeli occupation. And I think that is right every nations should have regardless of other internal bias that might exist. So as much as I will oppose sexism and homophobia that exist among Palestinians, it is their right for self-determination that I will support.
unorthodoxtrotsky 1 year ago
This war and the sacrifice of patriotic men and women is an affront to any sense of justice or dignity. When I heard the Bush rhetoric and was convinced he was going in regardless of WMDs' I wrote a letter to the president and both my state senators imploring them to stay out of Iraq. Being a former paratrooper after I graduated HS I was appalled that our young people in the military would be sacrificed for what? When the rich kidsdie whos' parents profit from these disgusting wars they will end
larry1369 2 years ago 19
Write your letters, have your parades, doesn't matter. They do whatever the fuck they want.
FeelOfFriction 2 years ago
@larry1369 It's part of the deal they have between gov't and the rich. "you keep my kids out of the war and I'll support it." Got it? :)
mabell01 1 year ago
@mabell01 Unfortunately I believe it's a little darker than that. Who profits from war? War is a great business for the likes of the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds. Even HW cut a fat hog running Carlyle Group with all of the defense contractors that group owns. I call that blood money!
larry1369 1 year ago
@larry1369 I knew that. I think it's important to look at trading my child's safety for my support(if I was rich which I'm not). It's really difficult for wealthy parents(especially mom) to argue against. I think it's real important to note.
mabell01 1 year ago
Comment removed
Krakko44 10 months ago
@larry1369 hey larry, its the rich middle class kids who are the only ones who ever get off their ass and actually do something to change things, like the Youth movement in the 60s. which was, mostly rich middle class kids who actually stopped complaining and did something. so you should respect the middle class instead of just spouting your class hatred, wishing the 'rich kids' would 'die'. maybe you shouldn't hate people for their class.
Krakko44 10 months ago
@Krakko44 Seems like you are having trouble distinguishing between the rich and the middle class. I would argue it was not the rich or upper class but rather the vast middle class which mobilized to protest things like Vietnam and environmental issues in the 60's and 70's. The rich have a lot of ways to keep their kids from serving even during a war.
larry1369 10 months ago
@Krakko44 I don't wish anyone would die but as long as the people pulling the strings have nothing to lose this BS will continue.
larry1369 10 months ago
Iraq is weapon Test WAR. There will be more wars...by USA.
boxedin 3 years ago 6
Hell yes!
Thank you Noam for the encouraging words!
Simbelmyne13 3 years ago 2
Noam Chomsky is a genius. He has an incredible mind. Everyone must protest. Building 7 hello what happen to it????
visco154 3 years ago
If gift economy was an improvement on parecon in some respect then a transition might make sense. But that is unclear to me. How does a gift economy improve opon Parecon?
ppbbs88 3 years ago
Bullshit folks, this doesn't matter a bit. Please, take a closer look at Nietzsche, where it is all contain, corral, control, this is where is are at now..... Please, pay attention, we are there now.
SISheehan 3 years ago
i hope I haven't misrepresented aspects of a gift economy.
The point I hope I made was that large-scale industrial production is not innately contradictory to humane values of equity, solidarity, sustainability, etc. Industrial production can be alientaing, inhumane, unsustainable, homogenous or it can be fulfilling, humane, sustainable and diverse - it all depends on the economic system it exists in.
In capitalism, industry is opposed to all those things because profit is the guiding motive.
ppbbs88 3 years ago
Several years ago, Americans were very active, and huge anti-war protests happened around this country, not sure why they stopped, but it could be the fact that the media barely covered them.
diane4peace 3 years ago 3
at 4:50 - very important!
Bush intelligence report leaked that stated:
In a war against a "much weaker enemy", we must win......Reminds me of a little war in Iraq. A war of choice.
diane4peace 3 years ago
why isnt he your president?
hes smarter than any of your presidents, you must just vote for morons and war lords
goklovesyou 3 years ago
I would gladly vote for Noam Chomsky.
The thing is, he would never run for president.
Besides, he speaks the truth, therefor he would never have a chance of winning.
KenCat1337 3 years ago
perhaps, but I think it's actually because he is morally opposed to the institution of the presidency, not because he speaks the truth.
Planting a single person in a massively distorted, anti-democratic apparatus won't solve the problem. Chomsky has admitted that if he was president nothing would change. It's changing the structures that needs to happen. Replacing capitalism with Parecon, etc - that would improve the world. We need a movement with an alternate vision of the future.
ppbbs88 3 years ago
Very good points.
The reason I like participatory economics is because it's neither capitalistic or state socialist -- most people think that there are only two things.
However, I also like the idea of a gift economy. I believe there should be a post-revolutionary transition from anarcho syndicalism (with participatory economics) to anarcho communism (with a gift economy).
KenCat1337 3 years ago
i can see the superficial appeal of a gift economy, for sure. Person to person interaction, decentralised, non-authoritarian, etc.
However, a gift economy would effectively get rid of economies of scale associated with large-scale industrial production, creating duplication of effort and much innefficiency. I think parecon is ideal because it mixes the efficiency of large-scale industrial production with the non-heirarchical, participatory planning we associate with something like a gift economy
ppbbs88 3 years ago
Participatory economics on a large scale and a gift economy on a small scale or maybe a transition from parecon to a gift economy sounds interesting.
A transition would be if your aim was also a bit primitivist (I should say environmental, not primitivist).
KenCat1337 3 years ago
I believe in environmental sustainability, but I don't believe we should de-industrialise just for the sake of it.
There is no reason why we can't plan an entire economy (production/consumption) co-operatively with everybody getting a say in proportion to the degree they are effected. Where can a gift economy improve on that? There will always be a place for informal neighbourhood swapping, perhaps, but I don't think it should be the basis of an economy small or large.
ppbbs88 3 years ago
I always thought of participatory economics under something such as syndicalism as industrial, whereas more steps would have to be put into place to sustain the environment and our health.
I'm not a primitivist either, I just mentioned that gift economies are simpler on much smaller scales (such as like in tribes, where they may have been in place).
KenCat1337 3 years ago
ok, cool. I still reckon participatory planning works fine at any given level. Until I can see where gift economies improve upon an aspect of parecon i don't really see the point of them. I'm just wondering what norms a gift economy would have for determining consumption rights or for remunerating people who produce stuff - would ppl be compensated for effort and sacrifice during labour or output and market power?
ppbbs88 3 years ago
Careful, now -- you're talking like a capitalist (money money money). lol
I suppose they would be compensated for effort, sacrifice and market power. You keep what you need of what you made and give out the rest -- everyone does this (oversimplification).
KenCat1337 3 years ago
I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
ppbbs88 3 years ago
I actually agree with participatory economics, a gift economy would be easier in non-formal working communities (like with a tribal lifestyle).
KenCat1337 3 years ago
fair enough. Tribes would already (I'm guessing) operate like that, wouldn't they? Is a gift economy by definition a subsistence economy? How would the surplus be managed - would people be trusted to keep just what they need and give everything else to others? what would determine who would give what to who - or is this informally arranged? If it is informally arranged, what's to stop people from finding arrangements which are mutually beneficial but leave others worse off? transparency..?
ppbbs88 3 years ago
I know that tribal economies operating on a "gift" model can also facilitate inequalities - like the best parts of the meat from a group catch going to a prominent family within the tribe - or similar. Without explicit structures to govern consumption rights and organise work, unjust dynamics could develop.
My main concern is basically that a gift economy might violate the norm that everybody should have control over decision-making to the extent that they are effected by said decisions.
ppbbs88 3 years ago
Many mistake a gift economy as people simply giving "gifts" or presents..
It's non-discriminatory because the "giver" does not chose who he or she gives it to. In a sense, it's a centralized body of free goods.
KenCat1337 3 years ago
wow. preaching much?
Klubiy 3 years ago
Kluby, ppbbs and I were having a good conversation on social anarchist economics.. No preaching involved.
KenCat1337 3 years ago
Our presidential election system has been rigged for the past 100 years or so.
PinchHarmonix 3 years ago
I wouldn't go to the point of saying it was "rigged" for the past 100 years, though it was effected.
KenCat1337 3 years ago
Point taken. I'm still learning a lot about what's going on, but have been doing research. I DO know that our country has a semi dark past that isn't generally known by the general public of America. I know George W Bush had intention of invading Iraq before 9/11, and that his grandfather Prescott Bush helped fund Adolf Hitler to power. I also believe Pearl Harbor was intentionally provoked as a reason to enter WWII so that weapons manufacturers could profit.
PinchHarmonix 3 years ago
Than you know way more than the average American.. I'm very glad you've been doing your research. It's a shame Americans aren't simply outraged by now for what the US elites have done to and "for" our country... We need to get the message heard.
KenCat1337 3 years ago
All very true statements.
It's not necessarily George Bush that needs to be replaced, though. Even if we had the most brilliant man in office, nothing would change. It's the oppressive, capitalistic and hierarchical system that is wrong and keeps progressive change from happening.
KenCat1337 3 years ago 2
chomsky is absolutely brilliant
AaronCz 3 years ago
Although i am an atheist, the more i see Chomsky delivering insane lectures, the more i see the parallells between him and so many other great orators that go against elitist opinion. Socrates, Jesus etc...
jackoo567 3 years ago
Amen. :]
KenCat1337 3 years ago
Americans: Do the world a favour, write in Noam Chomsky and Ralph Nader the next federal election. Your foreign policy will be cleaned up and so will your air.
rhysfawr4 3 years ago
Most people here view not voting Democrat will be "throwing your vote away."
coffeebeaner 3 years ago
RE:"Most people here view not voting Democrat will be "throwing your vote away."
I guess, if you really believe that the Democratic party is really all that seperate from the Republican party... Although I admit it would be, at the very least, an impressive gesture of growth on the part of the American ppl should they elect a president that is black.
rhysfawr4 3 years ago
I don't see them as that much different. I am upset at my friends who will vote Obama because he gives universal healthcare (which he does not).
What I keep telling people is that just because he's black will not ensure that he will have black (or minotiry) interests in his policy. For example, he wants to make it illegal for a person to not have health insurance--not universal healthcare. Nothing radical there, in fact, just the opposite.
coffeebeaner 3 years ago
I found this video Does Activism Matter? while searching for Activism on Wednesday and it's the best video I saw ever!! view it at divineclips . com
ricky122008 3 years ago
just curious, do people think the propaganda model this guy outlined is a reality?
j11j11j11j11 3 years ago
Just curious, do you have an IQ over that of a donkey's? lol
KenCat1337 3 years ago
why? was that a stupid question i asked?
j11j11j11j11 3 years ago
I apologize for personally insulting you,
but what you asked was not the most thought out.
This man is one of the most realistic thinkers I have ever known of in my entire life.
The propaganda machine, which he points out, is a massive, monstrous problem that has gone out of control to the point where there has been NO journalism on "news" channels.
KenCat1337 3 years ago
no shit. this is why i spend my time editing leaflets with chomsky's writing and distributing them on the subway educating. do you do anything to fight this outside of youtube comments?
j11j11j11j11 3 years ago
Yes, I'm an activist and do whatever it takes to educate the people about topics that actually matter.
KenCat1337 3 years ago
Whilst I do think Noam Chomsky is one of the best intellectuals of our time I think we should realise that, as he frequently states, unearthing the information he does is not an especially demanding task. It's time for us to pull our fingers out and start emulating him on top of praising him.
SheikahZeo 4 years ago 10
Agreed
HugoNewman 4 years ago 3
"whilst"?
bluebettle 3 years ago
Chomsky the Best..even Italian read chomsky..
Worker rebel
CIPPALA 4 years ago
noam rules. you should also see arundhati roy's videos if you enjoyed this. another amazing speaker on the same subject.
thaumata 4 years ago
Noam is legend
insanemoe 4 years ago 2
(((( Imagine ))))
One*Billion - Global*Citizens - One*Peace
Walk*On
Nov. 2nd - 2008
The World shall Rise*Above the slavery of FEAR . . . with . . .
One-Wor*d - WORLD4PEACE
Remember - y/our - Human*Unity . . .
PeaceProfit 4 years ago
The guy is amazing . The way he can put things across in words is truly staggering .
ice9001 4 years ago
Has he got any understudies, or is he just that far ahead of his time?
ANarayan 4 years ago
I hope he lives to be 100 we really cant aford to loose him at this time. He does have a great legacy of writing, speeches and video. That is an asset for the future.
calvinjones 4 years ago
Long live noam
fjhlfjhl 5 years ago
he's getting old... when he goes, we lose someone who has vast knowledge, skills, and wisdom... respect
happyseaurchin 5 years ago
it would be like the death of plato, kant, aristotle, marx, etc.
fernandorosdav 4 years ago
My Hero ! rock on Noam
MrNiceHk 5 years ago