Is this dude really suggesting pedophilia is good? Wow that is scary..hope none of you ever have kids who are victims of a pedophilic attack like Jerry Sundusky abused those kids for the last 12 years at Penn State. This the mentality and justification that comes from atheistic views of life. Unbelievable.
@psalmsurfer1 You actually thinking that thunderf00t believes that pedophilia is ok? Are you that on Ray Comfort's bandwagon to believe that? He is simply putting that if God said if pedophilia was ok, would it be? How clearer does that have to be? I posted a comment before dealing with this subject with you, hopefully you'll get around to it. Now god does say to stone your rebellious child so he will die and will not affect the city, so is that ok?
@dirtleg27 I don't even know who Ray Comfort is until I saw this video know-it-all..Hey if you don't want your words to be taken out of context he shouldn't say them in the first place..how do I know t-foot isn't a closet pedo? Most pedos go unnoticed until they are caught right? Never assume anything.
@psalmsurfer1 He may possibly well be, but the question he asked was that If God said pedophilia was ok, would be it? It was a question, not a statement. Ray can't even answer that question, because most theists cannot think for themselves because the "fear of god" syndrome.
Huh, I'm watching a video where Ray comfort says no life is created, that we came from our parents and God is the first creator and that the evidence of his love is in the fact that he created us, so it is not necessary for him to comply with our idea of mercy and instead he can mete out cosmic justice via infinite torture...
but if a parent's act of creation is analogous to the alpha's creation, wouldn't any temporal punishment be justified since they've fulfilled all requirements for love in the act of creation?
Hmm, despite the psychological principle of affiliation and devotion or whatever it was and the mutual relationship established with the dog, that doesn't mean that we can derive an "ought" from that relationship. There'd be a consequentialist argument for saving the neighbour (primarily if the neighbour will enjoy a more fulfilled life and bring happiness to more people than the dog, secondarily because people won't think you're a dick for letting your neighbour drown).
As for the 6m people: I remember a quote that I think was attributed to Ted Bundy where he said his killings amounted to a drop in the ocean of people. I can't find the source any more though. If one doesn't have any respect for human life (exceptions including those that pose a credible risk to your own life or perhaps those which will feel more pain than pleasure for the duration of their life, or that can't feel pain yet [foetus less than 8 weeks]), then suicide is logical.
The unanswered question: does God define good? If so, could he define good in a way that was harmful to society? If not, then doesn't that dictate that good is independent of God and that God is not necessary?
READ THE COMMENT BELOW FIRST. That means IF God exists he has set up the universe in such a way that the majority of people die before experiencing life outside the womb. That's horrific. Now lets postulate what happens to these unlucky souls. Do they go to hell, purgatory or heaven. If it's hell: Fuck God! If it's purgatory: parents don't get to spend eternity with their kids. If it's heaven: heaven is occupied primarily by automatons. Regardless: Fuck God! Google "Greg Paul" to fact check.
Ray said there is a holocaust of the children going on with abortion. I disagree, but lets entertain the idea that a person is created at the moment of conception. There have been 100 billion people born throughout history. Now, 50 billion of those people have died after being born, but before reaching adulthood, of natural causes. But thats not all. Anywhere from 100 billion to 500 billion people have died before even being born.
@FlashmoreGash I'm an atheist and I found out that the reason for are creation is stated clearly in Genesis 2:15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to work it and to keep it." That was the first thing he did with man..apoint him to be his gardner. Yeah, I'm think now. Infact I'm thinking. "Do people really believe this?" You can lead the gullible to the bible and they won't think at all. Thats why its blind faith. Ask your friends if they have ever read the bible
@MrHollywood1717 Really? A baby without a head? This is all atheists have to bring to the table? Its a trap question and moot point because it would be an aborted fetus at birth. Please. Next question.
@psalmsurfer1 Im simply pointing out that what Ray is giving up. He essentially says that a baby that has not yet developed a head is not alive and has no soul therefore abortion is acceptable. Its not moot because this is an unshakable apologist answering his own questions about abortion morals. *takes a bow* Thank you.
You don't understand thunderfoots point. His point is that morality comes from reason, not from an authority figure. You can use your reason to see that an authority is wrong if he says something awful like pedophilia is right. Btw how out of character would it really be for the biblical God? He did condone weird things like polygamy certain forms of slavery, and commanded the Israelites to wipe out groups of people.
@help4343 This is my point! You take soundbites out of the scriptures(wipe out groups of people) and have no idea who did it and why!(always good to check the back story huh")
This happened many times in the Bible, for example under Moses and Hur, Joshua,King Saul, King David ect. I don't remember Joseph of the Coat of many colors commanding attacks in the name of God, or Joseph the husband of Mary. What Joseph are you talking about?
To say someone is simply an Atheist is to say that someone is simply an disbeliever in leprechauns and that's all. Atheism is just a rejection to claims that have not met their burden of proof, it's just a single position on a single point. It usually has nothing to do with anything else. On the other hand a Theist may certainly be JUST a theist since people center lives around their faith, anything an atheist is other than atheist, is most of the time, merely coincidental.
Oh? Sorry, but long before I was an Atheist, I was a Christian, so I guess by the removing of the smoke and mirrors, you meant when I relieved myself of false superstitions and blind faith. I guess I could agree with that bit, at least on that topic, but I don't enjoy cheese steaks and watch football because i'm an Atheist, I do it cause I'm an American.:D
Question, in any case is it acceptable to stone a person for working on the sabbath? Or is it at any time, acceptable to condemn a person to eternal agony and anguish for not loving their parent? Is it also acceptable, at any time, to stone to death someone eating at Red Lobster? Your thoughts please.
With regards to the pedophilia issue, all Thunderf00t had to do is refer Ray to all the verses where pedophilia is even commanded in the old testament. No where is pedophilia condemned in the bible.
I was excited to see this video. Slow it dawned on me that ive had more intellectually engaging dialogues with my mildly retarded redneck coworker in a lunch break discussion. I love the format, but for God’s sakes replace the Neanderthal (thunder foot) with someone who can at least articulate a well structured thought. While you are at it, replace Ned Flanders (ray) with someone who recognizes circular reasoning.
Thunderf00t had a totally valid point about pedophilia. If you believe that morality is what God says is good, then you can't argue that God wouldn't say pedophilia is good because "it goes against his moral code" after you've defined that God is the arbiter of what's moral. Comfort's actually proving Thunderf00t's point by not saying flat out that if God deemed pedophilia to be moral he would find it moral himself.
He's proving that he himself derives his morality by something other than God by being upset at the concept of having to find pedophilia as moral if God did.
Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS FOR CREATIONISM-EVOLUTIONISM DEBATE (See Subchapter 10.2.2, Chapter 10, of Part Two.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
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According to Ray abortion is murder and the numbers of murdered babies is numerically superior to the Jewish Holocaust. It is a medical fact that approximately a third of all pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage. Now also according to Ray god is a loving omnipresent wonderful god. So why is god aborting so many babies?
@SorryStamin No, there is no other side in this. ALL debates regarding evolution vs creationism are one sided. And in nearly all debates, creationism virtually never wins.
Wow...so basically when anyone criticizes the character of God, it's a form of idolatry, and therefore a sin we need to be punished for. Way to deal with criticisms without addressing them.
I love how Ray keeps slipping in witnessing to TF...true Christian right there. Says how much he cares for TF's salvation. If RC didn't care about TF, he wouldn't witness to him about Christ, but he doesn't force it down his throat and his approach is subtle, indirect and opportunistic contrary to what atheists would have everyone believe about Christians that forcefully and aggressive proselytizing. Do you see any attack on TF by RC here? Do you see him angry or upset or pouting?
@psalmsurfer1 And before you bring up Jesus into the equation, cause I know how you guys like bring him up to justify the old testament. Let's just see how immoral this goes. Stone a child who is rebellious, ok. Crucify your obedient child, ok.
I love how Ray keeps slipping in witnessing to TF...true Christian right there. Says how much he cares for TF's salvation. If RC didn't care about TF, he wouldn't witness to him about Christ, but he doesn't force it down his throat and his approach is subtle, indirect and opportunistic contrary to what atheists would have everyone believe about Christians that forcefully and aggressive proselytizing. Do you see any attack on TF by RC here? Do you see him angry or upset or pouting?
@ElectrumShiv Ray's use of the notepad and pen shows that he wants to be seen as the authority. It might have been inoscent but he was using the pen like a pointing stick. Also he often has right hand held up as if creating a barrier. TF was open and relaxed, but may have been consiously so as his posture was unchanging. By the end, when TF picked up the Bible in a later video, the roles reversed and Ray lost his authorative pose. Bit of Irony there.
@Zaref17 You suspect wrong. None of those things are beneficial to the human race. Have you ever heard of the New Testament? It wiped out ALL the harsh laws of the Old Testament and replaced them with Loving Commandments. And to answer your last question, My source of information is available to you , that is if you are willing to recieve it with an unbias mind. The Bible
Thunderfoot to the rescuuue! 2:10 You know maybe evolution is true for some people cuz Tfoot does kinda look like his great great great great grandfather could've been a monkey.
@justtryharder You ever heard of the word revelation? That's kinda what happened when I put those verses together but if you want to just close your eyes tighter go ahead. And yes IF God said pedophilia was ok, it would be ok. But understand that if God says something is ok, it is for the benefit oh Humanity. Can we benefit from pedophilia? No. So would God ever approve of pedophilia? No.
@CrossBearingServant: Can you seriously be a moral and ethical person by saying "If god says it, its ok"? I suspect then you must think slavery, genocide, racism, infanticide, rape, the stoning of women, homosexuals, disobedient children are all justified because God says it in the bible? Are all those things beneficial to the human race? Also, how do you know what God would approve of? What special powers do you claim or sources of information do you have that are unavailable to the rest us?
@justtryharder It's not one verse. In Leviticus it says that You shall not know your Mom/Dad/Uncle/Aunt/Grandmother/Grandfather's (etc.) nakedness. And in Corinthians it says that any sexual activity between 2 people who are not married is wrong. In 1 Timothy it also says that marriage should be between a MAN and a WOMAN. In other words, Grown-Ups.
@CrossBearingServant I asked if it *explicitly* said it is wrong. I think you've made a few false connections with those verses. The first verse is against incest. The second condemns sex between 2 unmarried people. The third is also about marriage, this time dealing with gay marriage. Incase you aren't aware, marriage ≠ sex. If you wouldn't mind, could you answer the question asked of ray? If god said pedophilia was ok, would it be ok?
@CrossBearingServant You won't find that verse although it can be implied from moral reasoning. I can cite many verses where children are being massacred in God's name though! try to reason that...
What if rotten Ray was drowning and so was my favorite dog? Guess who I would save too. That's right the thing that doesn't try to spread its oppressive delusion. The dog.
Ah, I hadn't seen other comments upon initially replying haha :). If some Christians believe differently than me regarding Old vs New, then you are critisizing them not me. Nosorry I meant you shouldn't judge Israeli action of old by todays standards - it appears I'm failing at typing today. Please don't start mocking the opponent in a debate. It's immature. No moral lessons in old? What about Joseph - bullied by his brothers but later ruling over them, mirroring Jesus' sermon on mount?
Wow... that pedophilia example was a perfect illustration of flawed christian absolute morality... Where do you get your morality from? God! What if God said pedophila was ok...?? Its not ok. (assuming ray comfort would answer the question)... So you would only get your morality from God if he did something you believe to be right.. which means all along you're getting your morality from YOURSELF (society) and NOT GOD
@mbglosser If God had said pedophilia was OK, then given that we as nations have developed with Christian values that influence our laws, then it is likely that both culturally and morally it would be OK. (Please note I'm not in anyway here advocating pedophilia). It is not stopped by the biological leash. So no, it's not a perfect example of a flaw in Christian absolute morality. All it indicates is that a celebrity is understandably reluctant to appear in anyway to advocate pedophilia.
@edvardiant well lets see.. its not Christian values that define our laws... similar laws against murder, larceny, etc. predate the existance of Christianity/Judaism.. they have been the norm for thousands of years in civilized society... Besides the laws regarding murder, thievery, etc that are in our current law code which happen to also be part of the 10 commandments.. what other law is on the books in the United States or any other first world secular country that comes from Christianity??
@edvardiant So being that your premise that law is Christian derived is faulty... Its hard to imagine that nations would adopt a law which allows for pedophilia merely because God said it was ok, considering we don't adopt our laws from God in the first place... It'd be thrown into the scrapheap with the dozens of other Old Testament laws that we don't follow (such as stoning your neighbor for working on Sunday, forcing the victim of a rape to marry her rapist, etc)
@edvardiant Your statement is complete nonsense. No nations have developed their laws from christian values, they have no influence on any law. the things present in the bible such as the 10 commandments are already found in earlier societies, because they are beneficial for the species survival and the societies, not because of any god. Plus the first ones about obeying god and not carving his image are rediculous and not accepted in any other law system than islam in a few countries.
@edvardiant You have been spoon fed bullshit, and have no understanding of where morality comes from, even though so demonstrate it, you explicitly explain you do not endorse pedophilia, nor would you do it if god said so, because you get your morals from you and society not any god.
Only the utterly primitive nations such as saudi arabia have religion mixed with law. And the resulsts are: stoning for adultery, murder of the rape victim (the rapist is unpunished) etc.
@Dimajo You misunderstand me. I said that I don't endorse paedophilia, but if we had grown up in a society whose laws endorsed it, so would we. Our law derives from opinions on morality that are strongly affected by a nations dominant religion. Our laws aren't made to uphold any one faith, but the original basis for laws were beliefs., and values. If you don't think we're all equal, you won't pass a civil right for equality. I believe that religion comes from God, you think Biology.
@edvardiant Wrong we would not endorse it. We would not endorse it if it was accepted today, nor if we had grown up in a society were it was endorsed. And we can even observe this from the evolution of our morals from extremely harsh crimes for minor crimes, once we punished theft with cutting off the culprits hands, now evaluate the crime and then sentence him to jail or something like it. We do not endorse these things because we have empathy, an understanding of what harms others.
@edvardiant An empathy would in the long run, or in the case with pedophilia, the very short run make it illegal again. You can throw out any example it will give the same results, our morals are constantly evolving animal rights haven't been around for long, but we understand through empathy that they feel pain such as we do, and now have a ton of laws regulating the things you can do to them so that you don't bring them harm.
And wrong again the countries religion has nothing to do with it.
@edvardiant as a finishing statement the idea that you think you get your morals from God. First of all you already demonstrated that they don't because even if God said pedophilia was okey, you wouldn't accept that so your morals are from "biology" as you like to put it aswell just as any other. And besides if you are a christian and are to follow the moral guidelines of the bible, you will end up a insane mass murdering rapist, as we see god order and endorse such acts many times.
@Dimajo You misunderstand me. Again: Religion strongly affects peoples values. A localised dominant faith thus affects an areas values and morals. Laws are the result of values and morals (within B. Leash), so laws in that area reflect those values. If a people had a religion that encouraged paedo., we'd have values that wouldn't prohibit it so neither would laws. I'm saying the opposite of what you claim I'm saying. I.e. If God enouraged paedo., so would society, so would you or I.
@Dimajo W/ regards to moral guidelines, you're mistaking Old vs new Testament. Firstly, the Old describes the development of Israel. It includes many violent acts, but all the teachings there to encourage that were superseded by Jesus' teachings. It is there for context, history and some moral lessons, but in the case of contradiction between old/Jesus, Jesus' teachings are ALWAYS paramount. Also, God's acts were acceptable within that time frame and should be judged by our moral standards.
@edvardiant actually i am not, i am aware off what the old and the new states, and i know that some christians accepts both and some only the first. So you are saying that Gods actions earlier was okey, because we judged them to be okey. So you are saying that our own morals are better than Gods, could just start making sense ? :) And the fact that every horrible act by human kind is forgetton by murdering an innocent person is not something positive it is extremely evil and unjust xD
@edvardiant as you said yourself our morals evolved, it has nothing to do with God, can you make a consistent argument ? or are you just going to keep spewing bullshit ? xD You already twice now demonstrated that morals are created by humans and when i prove you wrong all the time you don't aknowledge it either xD
There were no moral lessons in the old one btw, and jesus sais that all his earlier rules still are active, so he fixes nothing other than a very stupid way of scamming people xD
@edvardiant and no, showing evil acts is not a moral lesson specially not when endorsed by god, hiding an angel by making men rape your daughter isen't a good lesson, learning how to brand your slaves and how to trick the system to keep them forever and their children aswell is not a good lesson, being told you should murder an unruly child is not a good lesson, etc.
and showing something bad and then later with jesus forgiving it all is not a good lesson xD
@Dimajo Here's an analogy. At time T=0:Tribal society that pillages and murders.T=1: Ages of chivalry. Still pillaging/ murder. T=2: Modern times, no pillaging, little murder. If you wrote a book to describe teachings of t=2, you'd include t=1&0 for context/ to see development. Readers wanting morality of t=2 read about t=1 and think there are things there superceded by t=2, (e.g. t=1 says looting ok, t=2 says not. Listen to t=2.) but maybe chivalry is good to learn from. This how to read Bible.
@edvardiant there is no how to read btw, and you are only thinking about it in a perspective of how to read it today when they were at T=0 the people were taught evil things, and it still teaches them this today, because the new testament brings very little good on the table, the entire bible is still filled with evil. Jesus still says that all previous laws are intact, there is no change here only that sins that weren't yours in the first place are removed now.
@Dimajo Actually, Jesus came to set us free, as he knew that we could never be perfect in the eyes of the Law; as we all sin, only through him can we be saved. Besides, most of the old is JEWISH teaching, and was there for historical context. I'm not defending what the Jews believe. Also, a lot of old teaching is misinterpreted: e.d. an eye for an eye wasn't saying two wrongs make a right, it was a limit so issues didn't escalate. I quote: Romans 6:15, ..."we are not under the law"...
@edvardiant Jesus set us free man you are so deluded.. We allways sin no we don't have to xD .. Fuck you have bought into all of it. God creates original sin meaning we are poisoned from the start, and then gives us a way out. its the simplest conjob in the world and you don't even see it. God gives us the poison so that we will accept his cure... Nothing nice or nobel about that, wake up for fuck sake xD
@Dimajo Again, Romans 6: "you are not under the law, but under grace." I always find the hiding angels story odd. Why do people criticize hiding an angel, yet causing harm to your family by hiding a spy or soldier in a war is considered brave? Very little good from new? So turn other cheek etc is meaningless? Love thy neighbour etc. Many of the world's major charities are religious. Why are you focusing on the bad? Read Matthew 5: it clearly demonstrates Jesus changing the laws of the old.
@edvardiant Well let me tell you why, because people who do that, if there location is revealed they don't offer their children to be raped so they can protect the soldier... Dude it was a HORRIBLE analogy, and completely invalid.
WRONG the biggest charity in the world is secular (bill gates), and the religious charities are actually really underrepresented. please check your facts, don't get them from you priest.
Love thy etc... doesnt matter why do i need a book like that i can figure that
@edvardiant all by myself without that book, and why should i accept a book inspirered by a omnipotent being with so muc hatred and putred acts, only to get those fucking obvious morrally decent advise xD
The thing is religion offers NOTHING that can't be done through secular means.
And how many fucking times do i have to repeat it, this is aready over you already demonstrated more than once you have your own morals,will you soon accept that and end this?
@edvardiant but you are leading this far away from your first statement that morals aren't made by us, but you have only demonstrated more than once that, that isn't right. You admit you get no morals from god, nor any religion, and that you understand on your own what is wrong and what is right, no matter the pressure from society or your god.
@Dimajo I'm glad you see my point about violence in Bible. Regarding morals, I'm saying that you get morals from society & religion: The main influences on your morals are religion society & Biology. However my point is within B. Leash, your societies morals come to a large extent from your societies dominant religions. Pure thought helps a bit, but it's mostly the societies religion. So, the influences from society, are to a large extent from religion too. Which I think comes from God, you Bio.
When will people learn that when two people are debating on interesting topics no one cares if a debate goes on for an hour or five. Just as long as its not short.
So Ray's saying you can't have an abortion even if it's just a cluster of cells, despite the fact that the human body sheds almost all of its biological material in cell form throughout its life and regrows cells. So there is a whole holocaust happening on his body his entire life. OH THE HORROR!
@spiffcorgi That's a very poor argument, as the difference is termination of an organism vs an organism terminating it's own material while persisting.
@westpsmity Not really. My point was that biologically they are the same, the skin cells and the first cells after fertilisation of an egg. It was nothing to do with one being self terminating and one being controlled by a higher power, it was to do with Ray's logic apparently subscribing CELLS to some sort of spiritual right to life. By his logic we should treasure every single cell and abolish dust.
who wrote the bible? - they would begin naming all the authors, so you can say that MAN wrote the bible. The bible says that man is sinful. Should'nt the bible be sinfull aswell as is it a work of man?
God didn't write the bible, so the bible cannot be holy
@shandow15 Actually, they wouldn't say the name of the author, they'd say God wrote it. I've been in that debate hundreds of times, always the same answer. Most christians don't even know that the bible was written by priests, who claimed to have been led by God to do so by Divine intervention.
There are even records of this, held in the vatican, but still about 99.999999% christians are unaware of this...
i wonder who are the people who dislike this video are - the intelligent design believers are just as stupid as this guy, so they must believe that he won, and everyone else can clearly see that thunderf00t won, so who doesn't like this video?
You know, the instant Ray dropped his first "I KNOW how everything started because the Bible tells me how", that should've been Thunderf00t's cue to just get up and leave (and our cue to just stop watching) because it's obvious that nothing productive is going to come of this "debate".
@Keiichi81 Where's the entertainment value in that? Would you rather have a five minute video which ends up with Tf00t walking out, or basically an hour and a half of Bananaman getting his ass handed to him on a silver plater. Call me sadistic, but I would prefer the latter.
@lucklyclover58 because both the dog and neighbour have the same...."worth", if you will. he is very close to the dog though, while the neighbour is just another human. i imagine you are assuming a human is intrinsically more valuable than any other living thing, but that is not the case.
and btw you are 100% correct about how science 100 years ago is incorrect, infact theres this law that was made 200 years ago and its wron, its called The Law of Physics, what was Newton thinking? *sarcasm*
Ray says its not in God's character to say that pedophilia is ok... then that means God doesn't say, "This is wrong" and therefore it X is wrong. This means that X is wrong, and because it is wrong God says that is wrong. This would mean that God doesn't make right and wrong but has an understanding of right and wrong. This would mean that without God a person could make logical judgments to determine the difference. Herp-de-derp.
the question should have been if pedophilia be okay in heaven?
halflifeproductionz 6 hours ago
I have a five part video series that exposes
Christianity and the Bible as wrong and immoral
anyone with honesty and truth will agree.
Do you care what s right?
MagicHoodooMan 20 hours ago
Thunderf00t is an insane masochist if he enjoys discussion with Ray... :-D
MidnightSt 2 days ago
is it me or at the end is ray annoyed that thunder is enjoying this
sl8m 6 days ago
Ray is a nice, relatively calm religious man but he doesn't half chat some shot
Kempter1 4 weeks ago
OMG! Did he really just say that? Save a dog over a human being? That's the difference between an atheist and a God fearing Christian.
DSpree42 1 month ago
Is this dude really suggesting pedophilia is good? Wow that is scary..hope none of you ever have kids who are victims of a pedophilic attack like Jerry Sundusky abused those kids for the last 12 years at Penn State. This the mentality and justification that comes from atheistic views of life. Unbelievable.
psalmsurfer1 2 months ago
@psalmsurfer1 You actually thinking that thunderf00t believes that pedophilia is ok? Are you that on Ray Comfort's bandwagon to believe that? He is simply putting that if God said if pedophilia was ok, would it be? How clearer does that have to be? I posted a comment before dealing with this subject with you, hopefully you'll get around to it. Now god does say to stone your rebellious child so he will die and will not affect the city, so is that ok?
dirtleg27 1 month ago
@dirtleg27 I don't even know who Ray Comfort is until I saw this video know-it-all..Hey if you don't want your words to be taken out of context he shouldn't say them in the first place..how do I know t-foot isn't a closet pedo? Most pedos go unnoticed until they are caught right? Never assume anything.
psalmsurfer1 1 month ago
@psalmsurfer1 He may possibly well be, but the question he asked was that If God said pedophilia was ok, would be it? It was a question, not a statement. Ray can't even answer that question, because most theists cannot think for themselves because the "fear of god" syndrome.
dirtleg27 1 month ago 3
It is clear Ray has a character of god in his mind, but only his and those who like god have the correct character of god in mind?
freethinkerer 2 months ago
Huh, I'm watching a video where Ray comfort says no life is created, that we came from our parents and God is the first creator and that the evidence of his love is in the fact that he created us, so it is not necessary for him to comply with our idea of mercy and instead he can mete out cosmic justice via infinite torture...
gamerunknown 2 months ago
but if a parent's act of creation is analogous to the alpha's creation, wouldn't any temporal punishment be justified since they've fulfilled all requirements for love in the act of creation?
gamerunknown 2 months ago
Hmm, despite the psychological principle of affiliation and devotion or whatever it was and the mutual relationship established with the dog, that doesn't mean that we can derive an "ought" from that relationship. There'd be a consequentialist argument for saving the neighbour (primarily if the neighbour will enjoy a more fulfilled life and bring happiness to more people than the dog, secondarily because people won't think you're a dick for letting your neighbour drown).
gamerunknown 2 months ago
@gamerunknown
As for the 6m people: I remember a quote that I think was attributed to Ted Bundy where he said his killings amounted to a drop in the ocean of people. I can't find the source any more though. If one doesn't have any respect for human life (exceptions including those that pose a credible risk to your own life or perhaps those which will feel more pain than pleasure for the duration of their life, or that can't feel pain yet [foetus less than 8 weeks]), then suicide is logical.
gamerunknown 2 months ago
The unanswered question: does God define good? If so, could he define good in a way that was harmful to society? If not, then doesn't that dictate that good is independent of God and that God is not necessary?
It was in the Socratic dialogues I think.
gamerunknown 2 months ago
READ THE COMMENT BELOW FIRST. That means IF God exists he has set up the universe in such a way that the majority of people die before experiencing life outside the womb. That's horrific. Now lets postulate what happens to these unlucky souls. Do they go to hell, purgatory or heaven. If it's hell: Fuck God! If it's purgatory: parents don't get to spend eternity with their kids. If it's heaven: heaven is occupied primarily by automatons. Regardless: Fuck God! Google "Greg Paul" to fact check.
steelstan39 2 months ago
Ray said there is a holocaust of the children going on with abortion. I disagree, but lets entertain the idea that a person is created at the moment of conception. There have been 100 billion people born throughout history. Now, 50 billion of those people have died after being born, but before reaching adulthood, of natural causes. But thats not all. Anywhere from 100 billion to 500 billion people have died before even being born.
steelstan39 2 months ago
@FlashmoreGash I'm an atheist and I found out that the reason for are creation is stated clearly in Genesis 2:15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to work it and to keep it." That was the first thing he did with man..apoint him to be his gardner. Yeah, I'm think now. Infact I'm thinking. "Do people really believe this?" You can lead the gullible to the bible and they won't think at all. Thats why its blind faith. Ask your friends if they have ever read the bible
Shahal1 2 months ago in playlist Thunderf00t w Ray Comfort
Comment removed
Shahal1 2 months ago in playlist Thunderf00t w Ray Comfort
Ray Comfort is way out of his intellectual depth here.
help4343 2 months ago
I have a creationist friend with whom i have better arguments.
test123ok 3 months ago
Ray said it himself. a "baby" without a head is not alive and does not have a soul. So abortion is ok until a head grows?
MrHollywood1717 3 months ago 10
@MrHollywood1717 Really? A baby without a head? This is all atheists have to bring to the table? Its a trap question and moot point because it would be an aborted fetus at birth. Please. Next question.
psalmsurfer1 2 months ago
@psalmsurfer1 Im simply pointing out that what Ray is giving up. He essentially says that a baby that has not yet developed a head is not alive and has no soul therefore abortion is acceptable. Its not moot because this is an unshakable apologist answering his own questions about abortion morals. *takes a bow* Thank you.
MrHollywood1717 2 months ago
@MrHollywood1717 Typical atheist taking a bow for foolish words.
psalmsurfer1 1 month ago
@MrHollywood1717 Something like that:)
Premiess80 5 days ago
You obey your loving parents..then suddenly they act completely out of character and tell u to be a pedo...wtf!?...What a nonsensicle argument..
This is an insight into thunderfoots minds and morals...Hes inept!
FlashmoreGash 3 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
You're missing the point...If God says doing something YOU consider morally unacceptable is right, does that make it right?
Lets use ACTUAL God morality...
A Rape VICTIM should get the death penalty with the rapist
Back-talking children Should be put to death
Unmarried, nonvirgins should be put to death
Rape a prisoner of war and she becomes your wife (One month waiting period)
People who work on Saturdays should be put to death
whiteowl1415 3 months ago
Comment removed
FlashmoreGash 3 months ago
@whiteowl1415 You simply do not believe in the christ our lord jesus and his father yahweh god!.
hide behind scientism,but when all said and done you have no faith.
Gods kingdom will reign for eternity and i can only hope that we included in this,as there are many trials to come.
Keep the faith my brothers in christ!.
FlashmoreGash 3 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
"You simply do not believe" - Kind of what being an Atheist means, yes
"scientism" - Pretty sure thats not word
"you have no faith" - I don't beleive in myths with no evidence behind them? OK
"reign for eternity" - Any Idea how long eternity is, and how much it would SUCK to be eternal?
Sorry, your "soul" is determined by electro-chemical reactions in your brain. You die its over.
Stop looking at the Afterlife and start apprciating the uniqueness of your real life
whiteowl1415 3 months ago
@whiteowl1415 Im looking at the ressurection of the messiah and gods eternal word.Salvation!
You are blinded by the world.
I wish you well!.
FlashmoreGash 3 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
What you are looking at is a book that can't be confirmed past c 350 BCE
whiteowl1415 3 months ago
@whiteowl1415 You speak what you know not!. You're intellectually wrong and spiritually incorrect.
I wish you well for the future.
FlashmoreGash 3 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
Oldest Biblical source = deadsea scrolls. dated at oldest edge as mid 300s BCE.
whiteowl1415 3 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
You don't understand thunderfoots point. His point is that morality comes from reason, not from an authority figure. You can use your reason to see that an authority is wrong if he says something awful like pedophilia is right. Btw how out of character would it really be for the biblical God? He did condone weird things like polygamy certain forms of slavery, and commanded the Israelites to wipe out groups of people.
help4343 2 months ago
@help4343 You don't understand!
Do some research and find out the reason for Joseph attacking the towns and cities.
FlashmoreGash 2 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
Joseph? Who is Joseph?
help4343 2 months ago
@help4343 This is my point! You take soundbites out of the scriptures(wipe out groups of people) and have no idea who did it and why!(always good to check the back story huh")
FlashmoreGash 2 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
This happened many times in the Bible, for example under Moses and Hur, Joshua,King Saul, King David ect. I don't remember Joseph of the Coat of many colors commanding attacks in the name of God, or Joseph the husband of Mary. What Joseph are you talking about?
help4343 2 months ago
@help4343 You seem to have done your homework! You've passed the test.ALTHOUGH! you are simply an atheist,nothing more or less.
Admittedly its hard the fathom until you search for more.Arent diamonds hidden deep and not on the pavements for any person to find?.
I won't get into an ongoing debate with you.Either believe or dont.You can lead ana atheist to the bible but you cant force him to think.
FlashmoreGash 2 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
To say someone is simply an Atheist is to say that someone is simply an disbeliever in leprechauns and that's all. Atheism is just a rejection to claims that have not met their burden of proof, it's just a single position on a single point. It usually has nothing to do with anything else. On the other hand a Theist may certainly be JUST a theist since people center lives around their faith, anything an atheist is other than atheist, is most of the time, merely coincidental.
elvebrothergenju 2 months ago
@elvebrothergenju When all said and done,removing all smoke and mirrors you're an atheist thats it.If the caps fits!"
FlashmoreGash 2 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
Oh? Sorry, but long before I was an Atheist, I was a Christian, so I guess by the removing of the smoke and mirrors, you meant when I relieved myself of false superstitions and blind faith. I guess I could agree with that bit, at least on that topic, but I don't enjoy cheese steaks and watch football because i'm an Atheist, I do it cause I'm an American.:D
elvebrothergenju 2 months ago
@elvebrothergenju Boring!
FlashmoreGash 2 months ago
@FlashmoreGash
Question, in any case is it acceptable to stone a person for working on the sabbath? Or is it at any time, acceptable to condemn a person to eternal agony and anguish for not loving their parent? Is it also acceptable, at any time, to stone to death someone eating at Red Lobster? Your thoughts please.
elvebrothergenju 2 months ago
UGH dont you just wanna smack him with the bible?
happychick1973 4 months ago
@houdles0
He needs Hitchens to give him a stroke =D
gunnerfan87 4 months ago
i meant "slowly" for all the grammar and spelling nazis.
ApocalypticBastard8 4 months ago
@ApocalypticBastard8 LOL !
420gma 4 months ago
With regards to the pedophilia issue, all Thunderf00t had to do is refer Ray to all the verses where pedophilia is even commanded in the old testament. No where is pedophilia condemned in the bible.
ApocalypticBastard8 4 months ago
I was excited to see this video. Slow it dawned on me that ive had more intellectually engaging dialogues with my mildly retarded redneck coworker in a lunch break discussion. I love the format, but for God’s sakes replace the Neanderthal (thunder foot) with someone who can at least articulate a well structured thought. While you are at it, replace Ned Flanders (ray) with someone who recognizes circular reasoning.
ApocalypticBastard8 4 months ago
Thunderf00t had a totally valid point about pedophilia. If you believe that morality is what God says is good, then you can't argue that God wouldn't say pedophilia is good because "it goes against his moral code" after you've defined that God is the arbiter of what's moral. Comfort's actually proving Thunderf00t's point by not saying flat out that if God deemed pedophilia to be moral he would find it moral himself.
lmerickson0 4 months ago
He's proving that he himself derives his morality by something other than God by being upset at the concept of having to find pedophilia as moral if God did.
lmerickson0 4 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 5 months ago
Ray Comfort is so strawman that he doesnt even know what a strawman argument is
yinweichen 5 months ago
According to Ray abortion is murder and the numbers of murdered babies is numerically superior to the Jewish Holocaust. It is a medical fact that approximately a third of all pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage. Now also according to Ray god is a loving omnipresent wonderful god. So why is god aborting so many babies?
isizinyo 5 months ago
@3:50 lmfao, talk about CHOKE
shadyx302x 5 months ago
lol @ the ad for this video. "WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY - Know yourself. Know life."
GilucZ 6 months ago
venomfangx was really stupid, but this is a whole new league, geez....
VerySeriousUser 6 months ago
Thunderfoot : There is no proof for God
Ray : But there is a God!
Thunderfoot : But you're assuming...
Ray : But there is a God!
SorryStamin 6 months ago
@SorryStamin Thunderfoot: No, there is no god.
Ray: LA LE LA LE LA! I'M NOT LISTENING!! LA LE LA LE LA!!!
Boxanadu 6 months ago
@Boxanadu Ehhh, I think that was a bit over done aye ? xD
SorryStamin 6 months ago
@SorryStamin But that is the basis of all this lol.
Boxanadu 6 months ago
@Boxanadu But the other side would like to say the same thing
SorryStamin 6 months ago
@SorryStamin But if you watch the video, THunderf00t is listening, but Ray is not.
Boxanadu 6 months ago
@Boxanadu The other side would say that as well because he isn't being converted ;D
SorryStamin 6 months ago
@SorryStamin No, there is no other side in this. ALL debates regarding evolution vs creationism are one sided. And in nearly all debates, creationism virtually never wins.
Boxanadu 5 months ago
@Boxanadu Just because creationism is completely false, doesn't mean there isn't a side backing it up xD
SorryStamin 5 months ago
@SorryStamin Lol, thats the funny thing, THERE IS NOTHING BACKING IT UP ROFL.
Boxanadu 5 months ago
@SorryStamin I am well aware of this lol. And this is the basics of how they think life came about through the theme tune of captain planet.....
EARTH!!!!!! FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!! WIND!!!!!!!! WATER!!!!!!!!! HEART!!!!!!!!! GO PLANET!!!!!!!! By your powers combined I AM CAPTAIN PLANET!!!!!!
Boxanadu 5 months ago
@Boxanadu LOL and God also created the universe with a fart contest w/ chuck norris, peter griffin, and Micheal Moore
SorryStamin 5 months ago
"We're living in a Holocaust."
Godwin's. Law.
Such a damn cheap comparison...
MrNobody47710 6 months ago
Wow...so basically when anyone criticizes the character of God, it's a form of idolatry, and therefore a sin we need to be punished for. Way to deal with criticisms without addressing them.
templar19 6 months ago
I'd save the dog as well. Fuck my neighbor. I
MrBrational 6 months ago
TF: What is the difference between disillusion and your god?
Ray: ...............
(My favourite part)
Metallewi 6 months ago 2
@Metallewi He answers the question at 7:45 genius.
psalmsurfer1 2 months ago
I love how Ray keeps slipping in witnessing to TF...true Christian right there. Says how much he cares for TF's salvation. If RC didn't care about TF, he wouldn't witness to him about Christ, but he doesn't force it down his throat and his approach is subtle, indirect and opportunistic contrary to what atheists would have everyone believe about Christians that forcefully and aggressive proselytizing. Do you see any attack on TF by RC here? Do you see him angry or upset or pouting?
psalmsurfer1 2 months ago
@psalmsurfer1 And before you bring up Jesus into the equation, cause I know how you guys like bring him up to justify the old testament. Let's just see how immoral this goes. Stone a child who is rebellious, ok. Crucify your obedient child, ok.
dirtleg27 1 month ago
I love how Ray keeps slipping in witnessing to TF...true Christian right there. Says how much he cares for TF's salvation. If RC didn't care about TF, he wouldn't witness to him about Christ, but he doesn't force it down his throat and his approach is subtle, indirect and opportunistic contrary to what atheists would have everyone believe about Christians that forcefully and aggressive proselytizing. Do you see any attack on TF by RC here? Do you see him angry or upset or pouting?
psalmsurfer1 2 months ago
I think what good ol' Ray means is what HE believes now will be laughed at in 100 years.
dylanlawless1 6 months ago
I know who the future generations will be laughing at based on this video.
robobrain10000 6 months ago
Ths debate in a nutshell:
Ray: Every thing is determinant.
TF respond in rational and relaxed way.
Ray: Well that's your opinion (relativism)
cphstreet 6 months ago 8
@cphstreet Honestly the debate was too broad. They should have picked a single topic and go from there.
Stitchman3875 6 months ago
why are their feet rubbing each others.lol
thinkasecond 6 months ago 27
@thinkasecond
;)
dlsbucur 6 months ago
@thinkasecond I've been wondering the same thing since Part 1 lol
zmk55 5 months ago
@thinkasecond It's debate pact.
Bleumange 4 months ago
@thinkasecond oh YOU KNOW
angryaznman 4 months ago
@thinkasecond Perhaps there is a bit of sexual tension between them?
slantbeard 3 months ago
@thinkasecond REALLY? 0_0
gravitoid 2 months ago
@thinkasecond
I like to think that they had hot steamy sex after the conclusion of their discussion.
gamerunknown 2 months ago
The body language here is interesting.
Jeorney 6 months ago
@Jeorney What you thinking?...I'm just curious lol
ElectrumShiv 6 months ago
@ElectrumShiv Ray's use of the notepad and pen shows that he wants to be seen as the authority. It might have been inoscent but he was using the pen like a pointing stick. Also he often has right hand held up as if creating a barrier. TF was open and relaxed, but may have been consiously so as his posture was unchanging. By the end, when TF picked up the Bible in a later video, the roles reversed and Ray lost his authorative pose. Bit of Irony there.
Jeorney 6 months ago
@Zaref17 You suspect wrong. None of those things are beneficial to the human race. Have you ever heard of the New Testament? It wiped out ALL the harsh laws of the Old Testament and replaced them with Loving Commandments. And to answer your last question, My source of information is available to you , that is if you are willing to recieve it with an unbias mind. The Bible
CrossBearingServant 7 months ago
Thunderfoot to the rescuuue! 2:10 You know maybe evolution is true for some people cuz Tfoot does kinda look like his great great great great grandfather could've been a monkey.
elunico13 7 months ago
@justtryharder You ever heard of the word revelation? That's kinda what happened when I put those verses together but if you want to just close your eyes tighter go ahead. And yes IF God said pedophilia was ok, it would be ok. But understand that if God says something is ok, it is for the benefit oh Humanity. Can we benefit from pedophilia? No. So would God ever approve of pedophilia? No.
CrossBearingServant 7 months ago
@CrossBearingServant: Can you seriously be a moral and ethical person by saying "If god says it, its ok"? I suspect then you must think slavery, genocide, racism, infanticide, rape, the stoning of women, homosexuals, disobedient children are all justified because God says it in the bible? Are all those things beneficial to the human race? Also, how do you know what God would approve of? What special powers do you claim or sources of information do you have that are unavailable to the rest us?
Zaref17 7 months ago
So ray basically said "you can't badmouth god in this discussion"...
If I were Tfoot, I'd have said "Then this discussion is futile. You've declared off limits the very subject we were discussing. Goodbye."
JulianusFlavius1 7 months ago
3:54 Epic lulz. Dead ahead!
CincinnatusSPQR 7 months ago
@justtryharder It's not one verse. In Leviticus it says that You shall not know your Mom/Dad/Uncle/Aunt/Grandmother/Grandfather's (etc.) nakedness. And in Corinthians it says that any sexual activity between 2 people who are not married is wrong. In 1 Timothy it also says that marriage should be between a MAN and a WOMAN. In other words, Grown-Ups.
CrossBearingServant 7 months ago
@CrossBearingServant I asked if it *explicitly* said it is wrong. I think you've made a few false connections with those verses. The first verse is against incest. The second condemns sex between 2 unmarried people. The third is also about marriage, this time dealing with gay marriage. Incase you aren't aware, marriage ≠ sex. If you wouldn't mind, could you answer the question asked of ray? If god said pedophilia was ok, would it be ok?
justtryharder 7 months ago
@justtryharder Yes it does
CrossBearingServant 7 months ago
@CrossBearingServant Could you cite the verse for me please?
justtryharder 7 months ago
@CrossBearingServant You won't find that verse although it can be implied from moral reasoning. I can cite many verses where children are being massacred in God's name though! try to reason that...
therabbithole999 7 months ago
Does the bible explicitly say pedophilia is wrong?
justtryharder 7 months ago
@justtryharder not according to Catholics
hellbrainsx 7 months ago
What if rotten Ray was drowning and so was my favorite dog? Guess who I would save too. That's right the thing that doesn't try to spread its oppressive delusion. The dog.
loxidon667 7 months ago
haha whenever Ray is in a tight corner, he just yells "It's a Straw man!"
alexicoff 7 months ago
Ah, I hadn't seen other comments upon initially replying haha :). If some Christians believe differently than me regarding Old vs New, then you are critisizing them not me. Nosorry I meant you shouldn't judge Israeli action of old by todays standards - it appears I'm failing at typing today. Please don't start mocking the opponent in a debate. It's immature. No moral lessons in old? What about Joseph - bullied by his brothers but later ruling over them, mirroring Jesus' sermon on mount?
edvardiant 7 months ago
I hope he was joking about saving the dog
AlexanderRaccoon 7 months ago
Wow... that pedophilia example was a perfect illustration of flawed christian absolute morality... Where do you get your morality from? God! What if God said pedophila was ok...?? Its not ok. (assuming ray comfort would answer the question)... So you would only get your morality from God if he did something you believe to be right.. which means all along you're getting your morality from YOURSELF (society) and NOT GOD
mbglosser 8 months ago
@mbglosser If God had said pedophilia was OK, then given that we as nations have developed with Christian values that influence our laws, then it is likely that both culturally and morally it would be OK. (Please note I'm not in anyway here advocating pedophilia). It is not stopped by the biological leash. So no, it's not a perfect example of a flaw in Christian absolute morality. All it indicates is that a celebrity is understandably reluctant to appear in anyway to advocate pedophilia.
edvardiant 8 months ago
@edvardiant well lets see.. its not Christian values that define our laws... similar laws against murder, larceny, etc. predate the existance of Christianity/Judaism.. they have been the norm for thousands of years in civilized society... Besides the laws regarding murder, thievery, etc that are in our current law code which happen to also be part of the 10 commandments.. what other law is on the books in the United States or any other first world secular country that comes from Christianity??
mbglosser 7 months ago
@edvardiant So being that your premise that law is Christian derived is faulty... Its hard to imagine that nations would adopt a law which allows for pedophilia merely because God said it was ok, considering we don't adopt our laws from God in the first place... It'd be thrown into the scrapheap with the dozens of other Old Testament laws that we don't follow (such as stoning your neighbor for working on Sunday, forcing the victim of a rape to marry her rapist, etc)
mbglosser 7 months ago
@edvardiant Your statement is complete nonsense. No nations have developed their laws from christian values, they have no influence on any law. the things present in the bible such as the 10 commandments are already found in earlier societies, because they are beneficial for the species survival and the societies, not because of any god. Plus the first ones about obeying god and not carving his image are rediculous and not accepted in any other law system than islam in a few countries.
Dimajo 7 months ago
@edvardiant You have been spoon fed bullshit, and have no understanding of where morality comes from, even though so demonstrate it, you explicitly explain you do not endorse pedophilia, nor would you do it if god said so, because you get your morals from you and society not any god.
Only the utterly primitive nations such as saudi arabia have religion mixed with law. And the resulsts are: stoning for adultery, murder of the rape victim (the rapist is unpunished) etc.
Dimajo 7 months ago
@Dimajo You misunderstand me. I said that I don't endorse paedophilia, but if we had grown up in a society whose laws endorsed it, so would we. Our law derives from opinions on morality that are strongly affected by a nations dominant religion. Our laws aren't made to uphold any one faith, but the original basis for laws were beliefs., and values. If you don't think we're all equal, you won't pass a civil right for equality. I believe that religion comes from God, you think Biology.
edvardiant 7 months ago
@edvardiant Wrong we would not endorse it. We would not endorse it if it was accepted today, nor if we had grown up in a society were it was endorsed. And we can even observe this from the evolution of our morals from extremely harsh crimes for minor crimes, once we punished theft with cutting off the culprits hands, now evaluate the crime and then sentence him to jail or something like it. We do not endorse these things because we have empathy, an understanding of what harms others.
Dimajo 7 months ago
@edvardiant An empathy would in the long run, or in the case with pedophilia, the very short run make it illegal again. You can throw out any example it will give the same results, our morals are constantly evolving animal rights haven't been around for long, but we understand through empathy that they feel pain such as we do, and now have a ton of laws regulating the things you can do to them so that you don't bring them harm.
And wrong again the countries religion has nothing to do with it.
Dimajo 7 months ago
@Dimajo sorry that is meant to say: ...shouldn't be judged by new testament standards...
edvardiant 7 months ago
@edvardiant as a finishing statement the idea that you think you get your morals from God. First of all you already demonstrated that they don't because even if God said pedophilia was okey, you wouldn't accept that so your morals are from "biology" as you like to put it aswell just as any other. And besides if you are a christian and are to follow the moral guidelines of the bible, you will end up a insane mass murdering rapist, as we see god order and endorse such acts many times.
Dimajo 7 months ago
@Dimajo You misunderstand me. Again: Religion strongly affects peoples values. A localised dominant faith thus affects an areas values and morals. Laws are the result of values and morals (within B. Leash), so laws in that area reflect those values. If a people had a religion that encouraged paedo., we'd have values that wouldn't prohibit it so neither would laws. I'm saying the opposite of what you claim I'm saying. I.e. If God enouraged paedo., so would society, so would you or I.
edvardiant 7 months ago
@Dimajo W/ regards to moral guidelines, you're mistaking Old vs new Testament. Firstly, the Old describes the development of Israel. It includes many violent acts, but all the teachings there to encourage that were superseded by Jesus' teachings. It is there for context, history and some moral lessons, but in the case of contradiction between old/Jesus, Jesus' teachings are ALWAYS paramount. Also, God's acts were acceptable within that time frame and should be judged by our moral standards.
edvardiant 7 months ago
@edvardiant actually i am not, i am aware off what the old and the new states, and i know that some christians accepts both and some only the first. So you are saying that Gods actions earlier was okey, because we judged them to be okey. So you are saying that our own morals are better than Gods, could just start making sense ? :) And the fact that every horrible act by human kind is forgetton by murdering an innocent person is not something positive it is extremely evil and unjust xD
Dimajo 7 months ago
@edvardiant as you said yourself our morals evolved, it has nothing to do with God, can you make a consistent argument ? or are you just going to keep spewing bullshit ? xD You already twice now demonstrated that morals are created by humans and when i prove you wrong all the time you don't aknowledge it either xD
There were no moral lessons in the old one btw, and jesus sais that all his earlier rules still are active, so he fixes nothing other than a very stupid way of scamming people xD
Dimajo 7 months ago
@edvardiant and no, showing evil acts is not a moral lesson specially not when endorsed by god, hiding an angel by making men rape your daughter isen't a good lesson, learning how to brand your slaves and how to trick the system to keep them forever and their children aswell is not a good lesson, being told you should murder an unruly child is not a good lesson, etc.
and showing something bad and then later with jesus forgiving it all is not a good lesson xD
Dimajo 7 months ago
@Dimajo Here's an analogy. At time T=0:Tribal society that pillages and murders.T=1: Ages of chivalry. Still pillaging/ murder. T=2: Modern times, no pillaging, little murder. If you wrote a book to describe teachings of t=2, you'd include t=1&0 for context/ to see development. Readers wanting morality of t=2 read about t=1 and think there are things there superceded by t=2, (e.g. t=1 says looting ok, t=2 says not. Listen to t=2.) but maybe chivalry is good to learn from. This how to read Bible.
edvardiant 7 months ago
@edvardiant there is no how to read btw, and you are only thinking about it in a perspective of how to read it today when they were at T=0 the people were taught evil things, and it still teaches them this today, because the new testament brings very little good on the table, the entire bible is still filled with evil. Jesus still says that all previous laws are intact, there is no change here only that sins that weren't yours in the first place are removed now.
Dimajo 7 months ago
@Dimajo Actually, Jesus came to set us free, as he knew that we could never be perfect in the eyes of the Law; as we all sin, only through him can we be saved. Besides, most of the old is JEWISH teaching, and was there for historical context. I'm not defending what the Jews believe. Also, a lot of old teaching is misinterpreted: e.d. an eye for an eye wasn't saying two wrongs make a right, it was a limit so issues didn't escalate. I quote: Romans 6:15, ..."we are not under the law"...
edvardiant 7 months ago
@edvardiant Jesus set us free man you are so deluded.. We allways sin no we don't have to xD .. Fuck you have bought into all of it. God creates original sin meaning we are poisoned from the start, and then gives us a way out. its the simplest conjob in the world and you don't even see it. God gives us the poison so that we will accept his cure... Nothing nice or nobel about that, wake up for fuck sake xD
Dimajo 7 months ago
@Dimajo Again, Romans 6: "you are not under the law, but under grace." I always find the hiding angels story odd. Why do people criticize hiding an angel, yet causing harm to your family by hiding a spy or soldier in a war is considered brave? Very little good from new? So turn other cheek etc is meaningless? Love thy neighbour etc. Many of the world's major charities are religious. Why are you focusing on the bad? Read Matthew 5: it clearly demonstrates Jesus changing the laws of the old.
edvardiant 7 months ago
@edvardiant Well let me tell you why, because people who do that, if there location is revealed they don't offer their children to be raped so they can protect the soldier... Dude it was a HORRIBLE analogy, and completely invalid.
WRONG the biggest charity in the world is secular (bill gates), and the religious charities are actually really underrepresented. please check your facts, don't get them from you priest.
Love thy etc... doesnt matter why do i need a book like that i can figure that
Dimajo 7 months ago
@edvardiant all by myself without that book, and why should i accept a book inspirered by a omnipotent being with so muc hatred and putred acts, only to get those fucking obvious morrally decent advise xD
The thing is religion offers NOTHING that can't be done through secular means.
And how many fucking times do i have to repeat it, this is aready over you already demonstrated more than once you have your own morals,will you soon accept that and end this?
Dimajo 7 months ago
@edvardiant but you are leading this far away from your first statement that morals aren't made by us, but you have only demonstrated more than once that, that isn't right. You admit you get no morals from god, nor any religion, and that you understand on your own what is wrong and what is right, no matter the pressure from society or your god.
Dimajo 7 months ago
@Dimajo I'm glad you see my point about violence in Bible. Regarding morals, I'm saying that you get morals from society & religion: The main influences on your morals are religion society & Biology. However my point is within B. Leash, your societies morals come to a large extent from your societies dominant religions. Pure thought helps a bit, but it's mostly the societies religion. So, the influences from society, are to a large extent from religion too. Which I think comes from God, you Bio.
edvardiant 7 months ago
Thunder, such a composture in the face of Ray Comfort is such a feat. I'm speechless. You have my respect.
LesPaul2006 8 months ago
Tf00t : "so the only difference between a made up god and your god is there is a book written about your god?"
Ray : "...yeah... gods character is described in scripture.."
rememberthename33 8 months ago
6:15 to 6-22 ray realizes there is no difference between his god and a made up illusion
rememberthename33 8 months ago
"He gave you the ability to think"
Good thing Ray Comfort said you rather than us there.
ragerancher 8 months ago
ray needs some DMT
cayman187 8 months ago
When will people learn that when two people are debating on interesting topics no one cares if a debate goes on for an hour or five. Just as long as its not short.
wyvernlord23 8 months ago
4:06 to 4:12 Ray Comfort realised he has failed and ignores what he has just been told to protect his belief system.
gp0d 8 months ago
Does anyone know what thunderfoot says at 1:15-1:25? Something about not having to serve god ?
ryan84160 8 months ago
I can prove that a soul exists, but it has nothing to do with god.
tmargette 8 months ago
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@tmargette Souls do not exist, You have no proof.
josan2964 8 months ago
@tmargette no you can't
rememberthename33 8 months ago
So Ray's saying you can't have an abortion even if it's just a cluster of cells, despite the fact that the human body sheds almost all of its biological material in cell form throughout its life and regrows cells. So there is a whole holocaust happening on his body his entire life. OH THE HORROR!
spiffcorgi 8 months ago 23
@spiffcorgi by the bibles definition of a child, my body commits genocide daily
rememberthename33 8 months ago
@spiffcorgi Yeah, it's terrible how dusty things get after a week.
MiroMiroSune 6 months ago
@spiffcorgi That's a very poor argument, as the difference is termination of an organism vs an organism terminating it's own material while persisting.
westpsmity 4 months ago
@westpsmity Not really. My point was that biologically they are the same, the skin cells and the first cells after fertilisation of an egg. It was nothing to do with one being self terminating and one being controlled by a higher power, it was to do with Ray's logic apparently subscribing CELLS to some sort of spiritual right to life. By his logic we should treasure every single cell and abolish dust.
spiffcorgi 4 months ago
If your dog is good, and your neighbour is rotten, then you let the neighbour die, and the result is one less evil in the world.
Pinkaugust 8 months ago
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God is for stupid people who cannot answer questions
KevinRuzHerrera 8 months ago
ask a christian this
who wrote the bible? - they would begin naming all the authors, so you can say that MAN wrote the bible. The bible says that man is sinful. Should'nt the bible be sinfull aswell as is it a work of man?
God didn't write the bible, so the bible cannot be holy
shandow15 8 months ago 2
@shandow15 Actually, they wouldn't say the name of the author, they'd say God wrote it. I've been in that debate hundreds of times, always the same answer. Most christians don't even know that the bible was written by priests, who claimed to have been led by God to do so by Divine intervention.
There are even records of this, held in the vatican, but still about 99.999999% christians are unaware of this...
Pinkaugust 8 months ago
i wonder who are the people who dislike this video are - the intelligent design believers are just as stupid as this guy, so they must believe that he won, and everyone else can clearly see that thunderf00t won, so who doesn't like this video?
shandow15 8 months ago
How could Thunderf00t possibly sit in the same room as Ray Comfort for more than an hour and not get angry?
Andy32268 8 months ago
This is futile Thunder. You're trying to get past a cement wall of superstition. This guy is just talking in circles.
gunnerfan87 9 months ago
9:15 "So God is all for justice so he kills his own son and makes some gullible women watch so they'll believe more? Wait, what?"
notessimodude 9 months ago
Thunderf00t talking whit a chimp
paygi110709 9 months ago
TF: What's the difference between the fake god that I created in my mind and your God?
RC: That's idolotry.
TF: That's not answering the question. What's the difference?
RC: The difference is that my God is real.
*EPIC facepalm*
Seriously, if it wasn't apparent before that this conversation was a waste of everyone's time, then it certainly was made apparent there.
Keiichi81 9 months ago
You know, the instant Ray dropped his first "I KNOW how everything started because the Bible tells me how", that should've been Thunderf00t's cue to just get up and leave (and our cue to just stop watching) because it's obvious that nothing productive is going to come of this "debate".
Keiichi81 9 months ago
@Keiichi81 Where's the entertainment value in that? Would you rather have a five minute video which ends up with Tf00t walking out, or basically an hour and a half of Bananaman getting his ass handed to him on a silver plater. Call me sadistic, but I would prefer the latter.
SoggyPoridge 9 months ago
I always get a kick out of the idea that something leaves your body when you die.
I think the analogy of the body seen as a machine works best to explain death.
When a car breaks down and stops working, what has left the car?
Silentsam7532 9 months ago
i dont understand y tf whould choose a dog over a person wtf?
lucklyclover58 9 months ago
@lucklyclover58 because it's his dog and he bloody well wants to that's why
froggymicwop 9 months ago
@lucklyclover58 because both the dog and neighbour have the same...."worth", if you will. he is very close to the dog though, while the neighbour is just another human. i imagine you are assuming a human is intrinsically more valuable than any other living thing, but that is not the case.
justtryharder 9 months ago
Thunderf00t: life is the electrons in the brain
RC: Life is a soul
TF: Is a baby alive if it doesnt have head
RC: It doesnt have a head it cant be alive
Nice Job RC
and btw you are 100% correct about how science 100 years ago is incorrect, infact theres this law that was made 200 years ago and its wron, its called The Law of Physics, what was Newton thinking? *sarcasm*
iforgotmyoldaccount 9 months ago
Ray says its not in God's character to say that pedophilia is ok... then that means God doesn't say, "This is wrong" and therefore it X is wrong. This means that X is wrong, and because it is wrong God says that is wrong. This would mean that God doesn't make right and wrong but has an understanding of right and wrong. This would mean that without God a person could make logical judgments to determine the difference. Herp-de-derp.
zippythewildone 10 months ago 2