And that's not meant as an argument, regardless of the long comment (just to give you a perspective). But as a question, how you see that in your philosophical view.
brain as meditation in regard to health effects on the body, but (expectantly) only if it produces a positive outcome. And it doesn't prove a god is answering them anymore than meditation proves that ancient gods respond to rhythmic chants and offerings. So, as a christian, how do you respond to other religious claims on prayer similar to yours regarding their deity? And many people do pray selfishly and get what they wanted (contests where the outcome is one way or the other)- i.e."perception"
attribute any deity in controlling events in the world because regardless of what happens, it is always attributed to a god. And on that basis, the god of the bible is indistinguishable from other claimed gods who act in like manner who people attribute to unfolding events, whether good or bad. I don't say prayer is completely unnecessary. It may help people cope with situations. I agree with SandySweet575 that it can be therapeutic. Research shows the prayer stimulates the same parts of the
deities who attribute their answered prayers to that deity. According to scripture there are some requirements for successful prayers- obedience, faith, humble heart, righteousness, wholeheartedness, and sometimes fasting. If the christian god is answering those prayers of different religions as well (being the only god), it merely reinforces their belief in those deities. If the explanation is that god answers prayer in his own way and his own time for his own purpose, then it is easy to
@rooio3 I don't know what goes on throughout the world. All I do know is that God answers prayers, in his timing, whether that is yes, no or maybe. Just because prayers of other deities may be 'answered', does not disprove if prayer works all around. However, I do understand your point of how it appears that their deity can be reinforced too.
@xchampx "All I do know is that God answers prayers, in his timing, whether that is yes, no or maybe."
That view of prayer makes prayer into an unfalsifiable hypothesis. Whatever happens, you're going to say that God did something. There's a video here on youtube explaining why that's nonsense. It's called "The best optical illusion in the world" and they show why a milkjug can be said to answer prayer in just the same way.
@xchampx The main problem with prayer though, is that it's a claim that the laws of nature are regularly suspended - something that's decidedly not observed. Not only that, but the stuff people pray for often implies inflicting misery/mindcontrol on others by letting you win some competition for some limited resource, so the entire exercise becomes exceedingly selfish. It also creates some rather silly problems of arbitration when two theists pray for the same thing.
@xchampx It's also pretty amusing that devout theists are not more healthy, live longer, richer, happier, have better lovelives or whatever. It just seems to be impossible to demonstrate a single area where the followers of any religion seem to get their wishes granted at a higher rate than those tho don't pray, or pray to other gods/milk jugs.
@Gnomefro Damn you, you beat me to the milk jug comparison.
To @xchampx: The way God's answering prayer would have to work like this: He could say "yes", "no" or "not at this time". That sounds more like blind chance than an actual answer. Never will you hear of an amputee who's regrown a limb due to prayer. Or a cancer patient "miraculously" lose their cancer without any treatment because they prayed.
Isn't that like ones perception on reality? The same statement can be made from someone of any other religion. There's always an explanation dependent of the outcome of events. Those same events can happen without prayer and come with the same outcome. People simply attribute them to a deity. What of people who pray for the benefit of others with no answer to their prayer? Especially when the bible gives specific instructions many times on praying. And also people who believe in other
He always answers my prayers. It may not be how i wanted it answered or when, but He always answers in the way it is meant to be answered. But i do not pray for selfish things.
@TheLaughingOut Absolutely. The notion of him being in complete control (sovereign) brings a peace to mind. :)
“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." John 14:15-18
Does praying to your three gods make you feel good? lol
BarryForever77 7 months ago
And that's not meant as an argument, regardless of the long comment (just to give you a perspective). But as a question, how you see that in your philosophical view.
rooio3 7 months ago
brain as meditation in regard to health effects on the body, but (expectantly) only if it produces a positive outcome. And it doesn't prove a god is answering them anymore than meditation proves that ancient gods respond to rhythmic chants and offerings. So, as a christian, how do you respond to other religious claims on prayer similar to yours regarding their deity? And many people do pray selfishly and get what they wanted (contests where the outcome is one way or the other)- i.e."perception"
rooio3 7 months ago
attribute any deity in controlling events in the world because regardless of what happens, it is always attributed to a god. And on that basis, the god of the bible is indistinguishable from other claimed gods who act in like manner who people attribute to unfolding events, whether good or bad. I don't say prayer is completely unnecessary. It may help people cope with situations. I agree with SandySweet575 that it can be therapeutic. Research shows the prayer stimulates the same parts of the
rooio3 7 months ago
deities who attribute their answered prayers to that deity. According to scripture there are some requirements for successful prayers- obedience, faith, humble heart, righteousness, wholeheartedness, and sometimes fasting. If the christian god is answering those prayers of different religions as well (being the only god), it merely reinforces their belief in those deities. If the explanation is that god answers prayer in his own way and his own time for his own purpose, then it is easy to
rooio3 7 months ago
@rooio3 I don't know what goes on throughout the world. All I do know is that God answers prayers, in his timing, whether that is yes, no or maybe. Just because prayers of other deities may be 'answered', does not disprove if prayer works all around. However, I do understand your point of how it appears that their deity can be reinforced too.
xchampx 7 months ago
@xchampx correction** not "maybe" i meant "later"
xchampx 7 months ago
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@xchampx "All I do know is that God answers prayers, in his timing, whether that is yes, no or maybe."
That view of prayer makes prayer into an unfalsifiable hypothesis. Whatever happens, you're going to say that God did something. There's a video here on youtube explaining why that's nonsense. It's called "The best optical illusion in the world" and they show why a milkjug can be said to answer prayer in just the same way.
Gnomefro 6 months ago
@xchampx The main problem with prayer though, is that it's a claim that the laws of nature are regularly suspended - something that's decidedly not observed. Not only that, but the stuff people pray for often implies inflicting misery/mindcontrol on others by letting you win some competition for some limited resource, so the entire exercise becomes exceedingly selfish. It also creates some rather silly problems of arbitration when two theists pray for the same thing.
Gnomefro 6 months ago
@xchampx It's also pretty amusing that devout theists are not more healthy, live longer, richer, happier, have better lovelives or whatever. It just seems to be impossible to demonstrate a single area where the followers of any religion seem to get their wishes granted at a higher rate than those tho don't pray, or pray to other gods/milk jugs.
Gnomefro 6 months ago
@Gnomefro Damn you, you beat me to the milk jug comparison.
To @xchampx: The way God's answering prayer would have to work like this: He could say "yes", "no" or "not at this time". That sounds more like blind chance than an actual answer. Never will you hear of an amputee who's regrown a limb due to prayer. Or a cancer patient "miraculously" lose their cancer without any treatment because they prayed.
AgowTisro 5 months ago
Isn't that like ones perception on reality? The same statement can be made from someone of any other religion. There's always an explanation dependent of the outcome of events. Those same events can happen without prayer and come with the same outcome. People simply attribute them to a deity. What of people who pray for the benefit of others with no answer to their prayer? Especially when the bible gives specific instructions many times on praying. And also people who believe in other
rooio3 7 months ago
I think praying can be quite therapeutic...but I think we are far more capable of changing our own lives, than we are aware of:)
SandySweet575 7 months ago
He always answers my prayers. It may not be how i wanted it answered or when, but He always answers in the way it is meant to be answered. But i do not pray for selfish things.
hellavadeal 7 months ago
Does prayer calm you down and make you feel good? Like... peaceful and content?
TheLaughingOut 7 months ago
@TheLaughingOut Absolutely. The notion of him being in complete control (sovereign) brings a peace to mind. :)
“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." John 14:15-18
xchampx 7 months ago
@xchampx Sounds good to me then. :)
TheLaughingOut 7 months ago