Gender Affirmation - Part One

[figliodelRe]

and part 2?

[908381stud]

Then what of my lack of attraction/sexual response towards women? ... Believe me (and not to be crass), I've been close with girlfriends who were "willing". But nothing happened because I didn't want it? You must conclude then that many cured homosexuals (if given affection) will become asexual.

[splinterbyrd]

For anyone who holds the view that gay men are gay because they all failed to bond properly with their fathers, this view- fashionable in the 70s- is currently discredited.

[splinterbyrd]

And of course using sex as a substitute for affection is a problem that involves heterosexuals as well, especially in our increasingly atomised society. Casual sex in an alleyway between a boy and a girl on the way home from the pub is felt to be better than no contact at all.

Sexual addiction is another problem that affects all sexualities, increasingly so in modern life. These issues are nothing much to do with sexual orientation.

[splinterbyrd]

If this video is drawing a distinction between attraction to the same gender and attraction to the same sex it's probably valid. Sex with the same gender is doubtless seen by some young men as a second-best alternative to gender bonding which may be more difficult to obtain. However, the two may of course occur in the same person.

[StorminMormin91]

Also, I understand that even those who have such strong father son relationships, even in the Church, still maintain such same sex attraction.

A scripture comes to mind: "I do not know the meaning of all things. Nevertheless I know that God loveth His children."

I know that as well, and no matter what, God has made a way for them to recieve eternal life and exaltation. He loves them. And only He adequately understands what they go through. All gay LDS should seek a strong relationship with Him

[ldsteencenter]

I can't think of anyone that would disagree with that.

[StorminMormin91]

Read "Real Boys" by William Pollack. He goes into the need for 'father-son' male affection and the Boy Code that has been placed on society. He also talks about SSA. A good read.

[teddysmue]

I really don't get it.

Why are you saying that what he is doing is wrong?

That's his free will and choice to think about it this way. Dont you guys want to live your lives how you think it is right?

And aren't you fighting for respect and so on. I really don't get it why especially you guys are so disrespectful to those that doesn't share your believes and think differently about dealing with same sex attraction.

I will never label myself as homosexual only because Im attracted to men!

[jaquaw]

intimacy and sexual drive are usually two distinct drives in the male mind.  When a guy fantasizes repeatedly about sticking his unit in another guy it is labelled as homosexual. When he just wants a hug from another guy that is intimacy

[9Xlives]

It's not something to get offended over. Interesting as a theories as 'theories' alone, and I could see that it could be applied to some individuals and situations, but certainly not all.

I will however critisize the production of the video:

The background music was exasperatingly cliche; I half expected to have an epiphone/discover God/maybe even sponser an abused child. Sponser a gay child, even.

[weartiedye]

what does this video mean by "appropriately"?

do you think male-male sex is particularly inappropriate from heterosexual sex?

[weartiedye]

masculinity and femininity are social constructs.

much of which is determined by are genetic differences.

not one is better than the other.

you dont have to be male to be masculine or female to be feminine.

let people be, and stop trying to recruit people to your sick, heterosexual lifestyle.

[ldsteencenter]

Interestingly...I think you're right on a lot of what you said.

But there is a difference between males and females, and not just physically. Where did you get the idea that one has to be better than the other? That doesn't even make sense. You think because there's a difference there has to be a ranking or something?

[weartiedye]

"not one is better than the other"

try reading

[ldsteencenter]

lol. Yeah...I did read. Thanks for the sarcasm. What I am saying is that nothing said or shown in any way implies that one is better than another. You're the only one bringing that up. The video certainly didn't bring it up.

It seems like most people in the comments are creating arguments that aren't in the video. They're transferring their own defenses on to what the video is saying.

[weartiedye]

homosexuality IS

same-sex attraction

THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

[ldsteencenter]

I disagree. Homosexuality is the act coupled with the desire. If you don't act, you aren't a homosexual. And I believe there is a difference between same-sex attraction and same-gender attraction.

[weartiedye]

get a dictionary.

anyone can put words together with cheesy music to justify what they believe.

homosexuality  IS

same-sex attraction.

straight guys who are just attracted to the same gender or who want to be around the same gender--and still like girls are called heterosexuals.

that's what it means.

people are who they are. it's just that simple.

[Jacksonholenativ]

Yep and you can be a gay man like me and have heterosexual friends who are men whom you are not attracted to sexually or romantically and have lifelong friendships. I know because I have several heterosexual male friends who love and care about me just as I am. There are also men I am attracted to and some whom I have dated in the past and another whom I am currently going steady with whom I love.

[Jacksonholenativ]

You obviously don't have a clue about what homosexuality is.  It's no different in nature than when two people of the opposite sex fall in love with one another. The feelings of excitement, love, romance, affection, etc. are all a part of that just as it is with heterosexuality. If you can't see that then you are totally blinded by dogma/ideology.

[weartiedye]

if you don't act and you still have same sex attraction you ARE a homosexual

[greenavery77]

I can appreciate this video...There is truth to it for the INDIVIDUAL who can be honest with themselves! I did enjoy the backround music as well...Do you know the name of that piece? Thax

[ldsteencenter]

It's called "A Really Good Cloak" from the movie Crash.

[kudoze122]

Don't be so uptight guys. It's just a video. If you can't realize what this video is actually talking about the watch in again and read the comments by the maker! The message is for all men gay and straight. It wants to change the way we look at male non-sexual relationships. Hell I know me and my friends never even touch eachother unless its football LOL! What this video is trying to say is don't do things like sex, just to get love and affection! That is the wrong way to get what you need!

[Jacksonholenativ]

Seriously? Isn't it the Church who has thrown most everyone who is gay into one category for decades? They still have a long way to go even though they have made some progress over the years mostly because of so many gay people who are LDS coming out to their families and society forcing the Church to make some changes.

[ldsteencenter]

Umm...this video isn't about the Church. Even if it was, I don't think the Church has lumped any groups that society hasn't.

[Jacksonholenativ]

No I'm just annoyed by it as it has a strong and very clear agenda.

[sniper6081]

What you say is true about guys being afraid of closeness with other guys, but that's not why some people are homosexual. Some are homosexaul just because they are. If you study psychology and biology you see that they really are just born that way.

[ldsteencenter]

This wasn't meant to describe everyone that deals with Same-Gender Attraction. All I'm asking is that we recognize that this is what some people are dealing with. We can't throw everyone into any single category, including the "born this way and can't change" category.

[sniper6081]

Oh.  Alright.

[weartiedye]

there's nothing wrong with being homosexual...there is everything wrong with trying to imply people shouldn't be one way just because you think so

[Jacksonholenativ]

What a crock of shit!!! They grab you emotionally with the music, etc. I grew into an awareness of my same gender orientation when I was 12 which is typically the time when the heterosexual boys (majority of boys) notice girls. It's natural for me as it's natural for them. My dad was close and always expressed his deep love for me. My dad and I went hunting together. We watched Gunsmoke and Planet of the Apes together. Dad used to scratch my back too. I'm still gay and always will be.

[ldsteencenter]

I mean..."This video isn't about you. It's about other people. You shouldn't feel threatened by it."

[Jacksonholenativ]

You sound like a broken record.  You keep saying this over and over again like some mantra. The fact is that this video is insidiously linking homosexuality (per se) to a "lifestyle" which in reality is just as diverse as heterosexuality. To pigeonhole gay people and our lives as a "lifestyle" is dead wrong. To link this arcane and debunked homosexuality = homo-emotional deficit propaganda as truth is insidious. To use homosexuality as the scapegoat for intimacy problems is very disturbing.

[weartiedye]

idsteencenter...what education do you have?

[huddan6137]

I read the ex-gay books til I was 37 years old at which point I took a leave of absence from work to enroll myself in an ex-gay ministry. Always the same old theories - distanced from my same sex parent, over-protective mother, ridiculed by peers, etc. I finally came to realize, through study of the scriptures, that God made me this way and He's fine with it. This video cloaked in all its "niceness" carries with it the same undercurrent of shame and condemnation as my 1st 37 years. Ignore it.

[ldsteencenter]

I don't believe this video ever dealt with how or why you are this way. And again, if this doesn't describe your situation, then the video isn't about you and you shouldn't feel threatened by it. There are many individuals living straight lifestyles right now. Their existence does not have to discredit yours.

[Jacksonholenativ]

This kind of hollow argument can be used against pretty much anyone. I think this video really says a lot more about you and whomever you are representing than it ever does about gay people.

[Jacksonholenativ]

Right on huddan6137. It is and all the LDS Church can do is lie about prop 8 and do all they can to rob a minority group of their rights. It's incredibly sad and wrong. Fortunately the California Supreme Court will likely strike it down this Spring God willing.

[ldsteencenter]

Once again...this video has absolutely nothing to do with the LDS church and this video is not promoting anything political. It is speaking to a very specific group of people which apparently threatens you.

[dougules]

This is misinformed.

[Michemily]

Interesting. I think male affection is indeed becoming more and more taboo, which allows both gay behavior and less male affection to respond and exacerbate each other. I hope my family some day can have healthy relationships. Thanks for the post.

[Jacksonholenativ]

Homosexuality is not the lack of male affection anymore than heterosexuality is the lack of opposite sex affection. To be drawn into this simplistic Joseph Nicolosi/Elizabeth Moberly argument shows a great deal of ignorance on this subject. Educate yourselves people.

[ldsteencenter]

Interesting you should bring that up, because CS Lewis says the same thing. He cites the current state of sexual promiscuity throughout the world and says that you have to conclude that the population is either sex-deprived and starving for it or over-sexed and addicted.

[thuggie1]

and i am sorry if i ranted

[thuggie1]

just remember this sort of thing is ammo to mormon bashers to

[ldsteencenter]

Just a brief comment - I had trouble understanding your point and if you were agreeing with philips, I had trouble understanding if he agreed with or disagreed with the video. But a more important note, this video has nothing to do with the LDS Church. These are not Mormon beliefs, so I don't see how it could be ammo to "Mormon Bashers."

[thuggie1]

i disagree that been gay or as you put it (same sex attraction) is not a chosies nether is it a call for male bonding due to the lack and people who hate the LDS church will take it and start twisting it to fit thire own agument you should rely put the chuches stans on it cleaerly

[thuggie1]

i ment it is not a chose sorry bet my sentances mixed up

[thuggie1]

it is up to the individual to deside you are speeking to people who grow up in mormon families they are well ajusted enviroments and this sort of thing desrtroys families iam sorry but for years this bull has been said

[thuggie1]

right I have been hurt by this form of thinking if it was not for my farther i would have killed myself my farther hours with us as children and know showing this bull hocky to young children i and descuted

[victorhugogarciatrev]

I completly agree with Idsteencenter. It is just natural that all men young or mature,need,long and must have a positive same sex affirmation and affection. Otherwise, that lack of affirmation might lead to an homosexual tendency. The act of intercourse between two men is a contradiction in itself,it is the frustrating search of one man of his own masculinity trough the others embodiement.Not bizarre,perhaps complex and deep,but true.

[Jacksonholenativ]

That's absolutely a bunch of crap. The AMA, the APA and virtually every major mental and health organization states emphatically that homosexuality is a complex issue that is a mix of both genetic as well as environmental influence. To be simple minded and state that homosexual sex is a contradiction also ignores the fact that homosexuality also occurs in the animal kingdom as well. It is found throughout nature.

[ldsteencenter]

Hey...just some advice...quoting the AMA and APA might not be the best argument. They change depending on whatever the current political and psychological beliefs are at the time.

[Jacksonholenativ]

That's very convenient for you to say that.  Very convenient and very irresponsible because it just is not true.

[flargo]

Biggest load of crap I've seen in a while.

[ldsteencenter]

I am expecting a lot of resistance on this video simply because it deals with a controversial subject. I don't understand why anyone would disagree that our real desire is to love and be loved, but I'm still expecting it.

[flargo]

You seem to think that somehow a person being gay is a problem that needs to be corrected, which is ridiculous. The whole "being gay is because you have daddy issues" is absurd.

[ldsteencenter]

I don't believe that cause was mentioned in the video. There was no attempt to explain why. It doesn't say that every gay person feels that way or that this is "correcting being gay." It says that there are people who want non-sexual male affection and end up turning to sexual relationships to find it. Two that feel that way, and that openly deal with same-sex attraction, were quoted in the video. There is a group with few places to turn outside of the gay community if they want male affection.

[flargo]

If you want male affection that means you're gay. Even without sexual attraction it still means you're gay, or at least bisexual. No straight man craves male affection like that No straight man has a longing for that kind love of another man. This is one of the most bizarre ideas ever.

[ldsteencenter]

Obviously you missed the mid-section of the video. To say that only gay men crave male affection is to call just about every young boy gay. Also, it's a fairly recent phenomena for guys to not show non-sexual affection with their buddies in the US.

[philips20001]

Why do people still think you're either one or the other with clear signs to show the way? Life is not like that, we are many shades covering every shade in-between. Liking men when it has nothing to do with sex is nothing to do with being gay. Why put them in a category where they are going to be treated that way and subject them to all the rubbish they don't even deserve? Not that gays deserve it either.

[philips20001]

by the way i am bi, duz that mean if i dont sleep withy guys i will turn totally gay?? nope not at all i love wimen to. sex is sex affection is affection and your sexuality cannot be chainged just like that. it cannot be cured as there is nothing to cure. maybe it should be us bi/gay guys should be trying to cure str8's from the amazing ability not to understand :)

[philips20001]

nothing wrong with wanting to be loved, sad when guys feel they have to have sex with guys to get male affection though. I don't believe that guys turn bisexual or gay just because they missed out on male affection and that video shows it in a way.

They want male affection but they see having sex with guys as a chore, which is not being bi or gay.

[philips20001]

I think the video's really sad if I knew of str8 guys like that I wouldn't mind showing them affection and I would never ask for sex for it. Who would want sex from someone who doesn't enjoy it?

[Jacksonholenativ]

I know of many gay men who have gone through Evergreen and LDS social services who have come out of the experience just as gay as when they went in except often having a much deeper understanding of themselves as gay men.