Re: Philosophy of action. Words and actions don't always tally in this world, though. Like the one teacher who says to question authority, and then closes the comments section on his blog because he doesn't like people questioning his authority.
I apologise for the length of these responses. Just so much information to get out. Maybe I should write a book. I could write a follow-up to "The God Delusion". Actually I could write two, "The Buddha Delusion" for Asian Buddhism, and "The Grass-Is-Greener Guru Delusion" for Western Buddhism. While the two phenomena are undoubtedly connected, they are nonetheless separate. (The lie that they are same thing is a central component of Western Buddhism.)
An interesting chat you and collaredbrothers have been having :)
Interesting too that Gudo would agree with a great deal - perhaps all - that you've said (an educated guess, based on my understanding of his approach to Zen/Buddhism as taught to me for a few years by one of his oldest western students).
Does that make me a Gudo fan-boy? I guess so - but a fan-boy tempered with healthy dose of scepticism. And, as you say, what is Zen/Buddhism without that?
@hceggeberth Thanks for your input. As long as we have healthy scepticism I don't see anything wrong with having a teacher, and I basically agree with what you've said about Gudo, who teaches Zen more as a philosophy of action rather than as a religion.
Perhaps Gudo would not agree with ALL the political commentary you've introduced, with its implication that certain political positions are not compatible with "Buddhism". As honest, questioning sceptics I hope you and I might agree that "right view" and "right action" aren't exclusively available to (what is generally stereotyped as) the left-wing - however many insist on it! ;-)
@hceggeberth As (hopefully) an honest, questioning sceptic I try to approach political and social issues from a perspective of humaneness. As such, I feel that all the examples I gave were of Buddhists supporting inhumaneness. Nonetheless, I don't necessarily always support the left. I don't really have a problem with hunting (more humane than factory farming), for example. Nor do I want Gordon Brown or Michelle Obama telling me not to eat to much or that I have to eat 5 portions of fruit a day.
@hceggeberth I wouldn't really want to say should or shouldn't be compatible with Buddhism. My point was simply that Buddhism AS A RELIGION is a reactionary force in the world in much the same way as other religions are.
It felt like Nuremberg, and the hairs stood up on the back of my neck. And there are some Zen temples that actually have memorials to war criminals as the main honzon instead of the Buddha.
One of the best chestnuts for me was listening to a Shin talk in Tokyo, and there's this priest raving on about Bhutan. He says how wonderful it is because - unlike in Japan, where the first stirrings of true democracy are causing politicians to argue with one another for the first time ever (a situation much lamented by the right-wing media) - there is only one party and everyone agrees. And all these old women down the front start clapping and cheering loudly.
I've personally heard a Bangladeshi Theravada monk give a talk about a woman's place being in the home. I've also heard a Soto Zen priest in Japan say that Japanese are getting soft nowadays because there isn't enough bullying in schools any more, and that bullying-related suicides are acceptable collateral damage. And Shin priests saying that Japanese Buddhists are kinder to animals than Christian Westerners because they gassho when they hack whales and to pieces.
The demonstrating monks in Burma may seem like an exception, but even in feudal society it can be acceptable to rebel against a regime that goes too far, with the aim of replacing it with a "more benevolent" absolute monarchy. Even if some of those monks support a democratic electoral system, I doubt very much that they would have any time for women's liberation, gay rights, or efforts to eliminate discrimination against minorities.
The reality of monastic Zen in Japan equally has little to do with compassion, with new recruits having their legs broken for being PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE of sitting full lotus. The violence and top-down hazing in those places is unbelievable. And in all Buddhist countries Buddhism supports "traditional values" - i.e. violent patriarchy, misogyny, honour killings (not just a Muslim phenomenon) and persecution of minorities (like the burakumin in Japan and the Karen in Burma).
We see a resurgence of religion today, and of the violence that accompanies it. It's very easy to have a "grass-is-greener" mindset and think only Abrahamic religions are the problem, but it's not so. Murderous attacks on Muslims by Hindus are a frequent occurrence in India. Equally frequent in the Tibetan community in India are pitched battles between different Buddhist sects. Ditto for factional rivalries in Korean Buddhism - I've witnessed the disturbances at Chogye-Sa in Seoul first-hand.
At the end of the day, all religion have nice teachings. Christianity has forgiveness and brotherly love, Islam has mercy, Buddhism has wisdom and compassion. However, the pathology of religion and of the vast majority of people who follow it is a hangover from the days before science. One plus one did not equal two in mediaeval times, so preaching non-violence whilst supporting a violent social system to the hilt never struck anyone as a contradiction.
A common feature of Buddhist groups tends to be that people only read approved books. There may not be a concrete fear of being "re-educated" like in Scientology and some of the other full-blown cults. But there is nonetheless a conformist fear of the social consequences of being exposed to differing approaches to Buddhism. This conformism varies in intensity from group to group, but is still always there.
Buddhism as a religion - in spite of some of its inspired philosophy - is nonetheless a religion, with all the things that go along with. And in 22 years in various Buddhist groups I can honestly say that Buddhism for most people seems to me to function as a kind of rebound-Christianity. People have often grown up in mildly or severely abusive Christian backgrounds. Like a battered wife falling for an even more violent drunk the second time round, people find Buddhism.
You should not be offended that I disagree with you or that I dare to say so. There is room for frank discussion of differing opinions in this world. Your opinions do not offend me. Just don't expect me to be silent when I disagree:)
I'm not going to go further into it, empty words don't do anything for enlightenment infact they obscure it because it makes the words seem important, just do your practice everyday untill your death and if enlightenment comes it comes but knowing that you tried your entire life is a life well spent. You do not become enlightened, it is not your doing so relax.
@colloredbrothers There is possibly a time for "Zenspeak", but not as a blanket response to any and every unfamiliar idea. It's very easy to repeat those Zen concepts, but are they really your own? That is a question that each one of us needs to look into. Are the ideas we think are our own really our own?
I'd recommend reading "Escape From Freedom" by Erich Fromm, if you dare? Although it makes no specific mention of Buddhism, I no longer consider myself a Buddhist after reading it.
Although I understand your concern with "zenspeak" I assure you I am not concentrating on the esthetic sound of my words then with the concepts I wish to convey, You have riddled the entire page with comments you have read many books no doubt and yet you fail to realize that words are not the way, this statement no matter how zen it might sound is just truth.
I have had many discussion on religion and truth and in the end I have learned that they are useless.
@colloredbrothers You make assurances as if you know yourself inside and out. What I would contend is that very few of us know our true motivations. If that were not so, there would be no need for meditation, as we could all just believe everything we told ourselves. Not only psychology but also Buddhism teaches that this is not so, that we are all deluded to some extent, and do not truly know ourselves.
@colloredbrothers You talk about "riddling the page with comments", which sounds a little bit as if you consider discussion to have no validity. If you really do hold such a view, it is tantamount to denying the last 400 years of progress and saying we should all go back to the "good old days" when the Church and the nobility told us all what to think.
@colloredbrothers It is also a very easy way of avoiding answering the actual points that have been made. I have taken the time to read your comments, and to respond to them point by point. This makes the discussion more meaningful, by sticking to the points rather than focusing on emotions.
One thing you seem to fail to realise is that all those Zen masters who burn books and tell people to abandon their intellectual knowledge were in fact people familiar with Buddhist teachings.
@colloredbrothers They told people to abandon their ideas because attachment to ideas can be a hindrance in certain stages of practice. They certainly were not - as some modern commentators misunderstand - people who hadn't read books. There is a huge difference between (a) having knowledge but having the wisdom not to be attached to that knowledge, and (b) only having read one or two books. Otherwise Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin would be the most enlightened people on the planet:)
@colloredbrothers You say that discussion is useless, but it was you who started it:) The truth is not words, but neither is silence. Quietism, sitting one's life away and becoming "a dead tree stump", is not any kind of solution, and many of the old Zen masters warn against it. Another thing that comes out in the old Zen records is that not every student is automatically a teacher. For example, the boy who got his finger cut off for imitating Gutei's one finger reply.
Meditation or any other Buddhist practice is a good thing, but it might not always be enough. Truly knowing ourselves might sometimes require a little more. And what I am certain sure of is that abandoning our own tradition of critical thought is not any kind of lasting solution.
We may need Buddhism, but we also need to be free to think for ourselves, and even to discuss and debate.
Let me tell you a little about Jack Kornfield. He spent a long time in Thailand, practising very deep meditation and experiencing deep samadhi. By the time he returned to the USA he thought he'd really attained something.
However, he'd barely been back a week or two when all the old turmoil came rushing back. He realised that, while his meditation practice had been useful, on its own it was not enough. Subsequently he went into deep psychotherapy, and later trained to be a therapist himself.
Everything except elightenment is a state of mind and thus will go away, just like samadhi, no suprise that he came back and got effected it means he didn't understand the teaching fully and just did meditation. A person that wants the truth above all will become enlightened, he might do many things wrong but in the end everything he did was advancing to the goal as long as he learned from it. In the same way this Jack should have contintued meditation and not psychology.
@colloredbrothers Regarding Mr Kornfield, you answered me from your own ideas, didn't you, rather than checking out any information about him. Mr Kornfield is an extremely experienced meditator - he has also been meditating for 60 years in fact, so might he not be a sage too?:) - who is still a meditation teacher. He teaches Insight Meditation, but he combines it with modern psychology - modern science - because just sitting is sometimes not enough.
@colloredbrothers And I wonder what exactly your professional training is, that you seem to be so qualified to know what is best for other people. Upon what basis do you assume a position contrary to science? Do you want to keep company with Scientologists like Tom Cruise? What else in modern science do you deny? Global warming? Are you a "Buddhist Scientist", who would refuse treatment for cancer and rely on meditation instead?
The idea that some people (I'm not necessarily saying you) have about roshis and gurus being a higher kind of being certainly is wishful thinking, and it is right that it should be criticised. I am far from alone in saying so - check out Stephen Bachelor, Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg and others.
I don't know why you tell me to do more zazen, as if you can tell how much sitting I do from the mere fact that I disagree with your opinions. As for analysis, we need more, not less.
The fact that I am inspired by the work of some musicians does not necessarily mean that I would see a point in watching a video of one of those musicians nodding off to sleep.
There is a problem in Western Buddhism with regarding teachers as infallible holy men, and that is the only thing that I am criticising. They should be respected as professionals - like doctors or anybody else - rather than revered as "masters". Such reverence is open to abuse, and there have been many such cases.
The biggest spanner that I would like to put into the works - and which may be seen as "argumentative" or "attacking" - is to say that I believe it is possible to be a Buddhist and still to discuss, question or debate. It seems very sad that so many people reject their authoritarian Christian background only to rush headlong into the authoritarianism of an alien culture. I am not saying that you are guilty of doing this, merely that an awful lot of Western Buddhists are.
Its nice to see such a master doing zazen it gives power to the practitioner, I see him sit and I am filled with the power of all sages that have sit like this, all in the same posture all with the same goal its beautiful. And what do you mean by each person having to find his own way?
@colloredbrothers Zen is meant to be about seeing clearly, not about hero worship? At least in theory, though the Zen religion is frequently quite different. Just because a person sits on a cushion with a shaven head does not mean that they are some kind of great sage. Even if they were, they wouldn't be able to live your life for you.
Why are you attacking me? Do you not respect and are inspired by the Buddha or Dogen? Is this hero worship? I don't think so, you are overinterpreting my words and twisting them. This man did zazen for 60+ years, this is a symbol of pure devotion to truth this is thus inspiring not devotion or worship. You clearly intended to attack this video and anyone stating the opposite of you before hand.
@colloredbrothers I am not attacking you. I am simply questioning the apparent assumption that watching somebody else practise - no matter how many years they have been doing it - is a substitute for one's own experience. And while I may be inspired by the Buddha's teaching, that does not mean that I have to share in some people's wishful thinking about roshis, gurus or anybody else being somehow better than anybody else.
I read the shobogenzo, not to worship it but so that it empowers me to practice more and better, in the same way I am inspired by this video, it is not a substitution for my practice that is another assumption you made which I never claimed.
It's not wishful thinking, people get inspired just like a basketball player is inspired by the best players so am I inspired by such masters how is this not making sense? Do more zazen and less analizing.
@colloredbrothers I was not saying that you worship the Shobogenzo or a teacher, merely that some people do, and that it causes problems. Surely you are not offended by the fact that I make such a point.
It is right and proper that people should respect a teacher, but it is, in my opinion, excessive when that respect turns into credulous adulation. The same danger is there in sport, music or any other walk of life.
@colloredbrothers Why? Is it equally unlikely that a devout Roman Catholic would let priests get away with so much for so many years? After all, Christianity teaches brotherly love, does it not?
There have been numerous scandals in Western Buddhism enabled by students' blind devotion. Don't take my word for it - the information is freely available on the web.
What a great example of dedication what is the name of the Zen Center he belongs to?
grakus10 7 months ago
HELL YA!!!!! get that zazen . he's attacking that zafu like a pit bull AARRGH AARRGH
oiddy 9 months ago
Just to clear something up Buddhism is not a religion...
AnonymousPolitics5 10 months ago
@AnonymousPolitics5
thats not what Nishijima-sensei says. So there.
jamesejudy3 5 months ago
Re: Philosophy of action. Words and actions don't always tally in this world, though. Like the one teacher who says to question authority, and then closes the comments section on his blog because he doesn't like people questioning his authority.
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
I apologise for the length of these responses. Just so much information to get out. Maybe I should write a book. I could write a follow-up to "The God Delusion". Actually I could write two, "The Buddha Delusion" for Asian Buddhism, and "The Grass-Is-Greener Guru Delusion" for Western Buddhism. While the two phenomena are undoubtedly connected, they are nonetheless separate. (The lie that they are same thing is a central component of Western Buddhism.)
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
Hi kanshiketsu1 -
An interesting chat you and collaredbrothers have been having :)
Interesting too that Gudo would agree with a great deal - perhaps all - that you've said (an educated guess, based on my understanding of his approach to Zen/Buddhism as taught to me for a few years by one of his oldest western students).
Does that make me a Gudo fan-boy? I guess so - but a fan-boy tempered with healthy dose of scepticism. And, as you say, what is Zen/Buddhism without that?
hceggeberth 1 year ago
@hceggeberth Thanks for your input. As long as we have healthy scepticism I don't see anything wrong with having a teacher, and I basically agree with what you've said about Gudo, who teaches Zen more as a philosophy of action rather than as a religion.
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
(cont)
...I wrote "Gudo would agree..."
Perhaps Gudo would not agree with ALL the political commentary you've introduced, with its implication that certain political positions are not compatible with "Buddhism". As honest, questioning sceptics I hope you and I might agree that "right view" and "right action" aren't exclusively available to (what is generally stereotyped as) the left-wing - however many insist on it! ;-)
hceggeberth 1 year ago
@hceggeberth As (hopefully) an honest, questioning sceptic I try to approach political and social issues from a perspective of humaneness. As such, I feel that all the examples I gave were of Buddhists supporting inhumaneness. Nonetheless, I don't necessarily always support the left. I don't really have a problem with hunting (more humane than factory farming), for example. Nor do I want Gordon Brown or Michelle Obama telling me not to eat to much or that I have to eat 5 portions of fruit a day.
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
@hceggeberth I wouldn't really want to say should or shouldn't be compatible with Buddhism. My point was simply that Buddhism AS A RELIGION is a reactionary force in the world in much the same way as other religions are.
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
It felt like Nuremberg, and the hairs stood up on the back of my neck. And there are some Zen temples that actually have memorials to war criminals as the main honzon instead of the Buddha.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
One of the best chestnuts for me was listening to a Shin talk in Tokyo, and there's this priest raving on about Bhutan. He says how wonderful it is because - unlike in Japan, where the first stirrings of true democracy are causing politicians to argue with one another for the first time ever (a situation much lamented by the right-wing media) - there is only one party and everyone agrees. And all these old women down the front start clapping and cheering loudly.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
I've personally heard a Bangladeshi Theravada monk give a talk about a woman's place being in the home. I've also heard a Soto Zen priest in Japan say that Japanese are getting soft nowadays because there isn't enough bullying in schools any more, and that bullying-related suicides are acceptable collateral damage. And Shin priests saying that Japanese Buddhists are kinder to animals than Christian Westerners because they gassho when they hack whales and to pieces.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
The demonstrating monks in Burma may seem like an exception, but even in feudal society it can be acceptable to rebel against a regime that goes too far, with the aim of replacing it with a "more benevolent" absolute monarchy. Even if some of those monks support a democratic electoral system, I doubt very much that they would have any time for women's liberation, gay rights, or efforts to eliminate discrimination against minorities.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
The reality of monastic Zen in Japan equally has little to do with compassion, with new recruits having their legs broken for being PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE of sitting full lotus. The violence and top-down hazing in those places is unbelievable. And in all Buddhist countries Buddhism supports "traditional values" - i.e. violent patriarchy, misogyny, honour killings (not just a Muslim phenomenon) and persecution of minorities (like the burakumin in Japan and the Karen in Burma).
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
We see a resurgence of religion today, and of the violence that accompanies it. It's very easy to have a "grass-is-greener" mindset and think only Abrahamic religions are the problem, but it's not so. Murderous attacks on Muslims by Hindus are a frequent occurrence in India. Equally frequent in the Tibetan community in India are pitched battles between different Buddhist sects. Ditto for factional rivalries in Korean Buddhism - I've witnessed the disturbances at Chogye-Sa in Seoul first-hand.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
At the end of the day, all religion have nice teachings. Christianity has forgiveness and brotherly love, Islam has mercy, Buddhism has wisdom and compassion. However, the pathology of religion and of the vast majority of people who follow it is a hangover from the days before science. One plus one did not equal two in mediaeval times, so preaching non-violence whilst supporting a violent social system to the hilt never struck anyone as a contradiction.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
A common feature of Buddhist groups tends to be that people only read approved books. There may not be a concrete fear of being "re-educated" like in Scientology and some of the other full-blown cults. But there is nonetheless a conformist fear of the social consequences of being exposed to differing approaches to Buddhism. This conformism varies in intensity from group to group, but is still always there.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
Buddhism as a religion - in spite of some of its inspired philosophy - is nonetheless a religion, with all the things that go along with. And in 22 years in various Buddhist groups I can honestly say that Buddhism for most people seems to me to function as a kind of rebound-Christianity. People have often grown up in mildly or severely abusive Christian backgrounds. Like a battered wife falling for an even more violent drunk the second time round, people find Buddhism.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
You should not be offended that I disagree with you or that I dare to say so. There is room for frank discussion of differing opinions in this world. Your opinions do not offend me. Just don't expect me to be silent when I disagree:)
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
@kanshiketsu1
I'm not going to go further into it, empty words don't do anything for enlightenment infact they obscure it because it makes the words seem important, just do your practice everyday untill your death and if enlightenment comes it comes but knowing that you tried your entire life is a life well spent. You do not become enlightened, it is not your doing so relax.
colloredbrothers 1 year ago
@colloredbrothers There is possibly a time for "Zenspeak", but not as a blanket response to any and every unfamiliar idea. It's very easy to repeat those Zen concepts, but are they really your own? That is a question that each one of us needs to look into. Are the ideas we think are our own really our own?
I'd recommend reading "Escape From Freedom" by Erich Fromm, if you dare? Although it makes no specific mention of Buddhism, I no longer consider myself a Buddhist after reading it.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
@kanshiketsu1
Although I understand your concern with "zenspeak" I assure you I am not concentrating on the esthetic sound of my words then with the concepts I wish to convey, You have riddled the entire page with comments you have read many books no doubt and yet you fail to realize that words are not the way, this statement no matter how zen it might sound is just truth.
I have had many discussion on religion and truth and in the end I have learned that they are useless.
colloredbrothers 1 year ago
@colloredbrothers You make assurances as if you know yourself inside and out. What I would contend is that very few of us know our true motivations. If that were not so, there would be no need for meditation, as we could all just believe everything we told ourselves. Not only psychology but also Buddhism teaches that this is not so, that we are all deluded to some extent, and do not truly know ourselves.
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
@colloredbrothers You talk about "riddling the page with comments", which sounds a little bit as if you consider discussion to have no validity. If you really do hold such a view, it is tantamount to denying the last 400 years of progress and saying we should all go back to the "good old days" when the Church and the nobility told us all what to think.
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
@colloredbrothers It is also a very easy way of avoiding answering the actual points that have been made. I have taken the time to read your comments, and to respond to them point by point. This makes the discussion more meaningful, by sticking to the points rather than focusing on emotions.
One thing you seem to fail to realise is that all those Zen masters who burn books and tell people to abandon their intellectual knowledge were in fact people familiar with Buddhist teachings.
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
@colloredbrothers They told people to abandon their ideas because attachment to ideas can be a hindrance in certain stages of practice. They certainly were not - as some modern commentators misunderstand - people who hadn't read books. There is a huge difference between (a) having knowledge but having the wisdom not to be attached to that knowledge, and (b) only having read one or two books. Otherwise Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin would be the most enlightened people on the planet:)
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
@colloredbrothers You say that discussion is useless, but it was you who started it:) The truth is not words, but neither is silence. Quietism, sitting one's life away and becoming "a dead tree stump", is not any kind of solution, and many of the old Zen masters warn against it. Another thing that comes out in the old Zen records is that not every student is automatically a teacher. For example, the boy who got his finger cut off for imitating Gutei's one finger reply.
kanshiketsu1 11 months ago
Meditation or any other Buddhist practice is a good thing, but it might not always be enough. Truly knowing ourselves might sometimes require a little more. And what I am certain sure of is that abandoning our own tradition of critical thought is not any kind of lasting solution.
We may need Buddhism, but we also need to be free to think for ourselves, and even to discuss and debate.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
Let me tell you a little about Jack Kornfield. He spent a long time in Thailand, practising very deep meditation and experiencing deep samadhi. By the time he returned to the USA he thought he'd really attained something.
However, he'd barely been back a week or two when all the old turmoil came rushing back. He realised that, while his meditation practice had been useful, on its own it was not enough. Subsequently he went into deep psychotherapy, and later trained to be a therapist himself.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
@kanshiketsu1
Everything except elightenment is a state of mind and thus will go away, just like samadhi, no suprise that he came back and got effected it means he didn't understand the teaching fully and just did meditation. A person that wants the truth above all will become enlightened, he might do many things wrong but in the end everything he did was advancing to the goal as long as he learned from it. In the same way this Jack should have contintued meditation and not psychology.
colloredbrothers 1 year ago
@colloredbrothers Regarding Mr Kornfield, you answered me from your own ideas, didn't you, rather than checking out any information about him. Mr Kornfield is an extremely experienced meditator - he has also been meditating for 60 years in fact, so might he not be a sage too?:) - who is still a meditation teacher. He teaches Insight Meditation, but he combines it with modern psychology - modern science - because just sitting is sometimes not enough.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
@colloredbrothers And I wonder what exactly your professional training is, that you seem to be so qualified to know what is best for other people. Upon what basis do you assume a position contrary to science? Do you want to keep company with Scientologists like Tom Cruise? What else in modern science do you deny? Global warming? Are you a "Buddhist Scientist", who would refuse treatment for cancer and rely on meditation instead?
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
The idea that some people (I'm not necessarily saying you) have about roshis and gurus being a higher kind of being certainly is wishful thinking, and it is right that it should be criticised. I am far from alone in saying so - check out Stephen Bachelor, Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg and others.
I don't know why you tell me to do more zazen, as if you can tell how much sitting I do from the mere fact that I disagree with your opinions. As for analysis, we need more, not less.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
The fact that I am inspired by the work of some musicians does not necessarily mean that I would see a point in watching a video of one of those musicians nodding off to sleep.
There is a problem in Western Buddhism with regarding teachers as infallible holy men, and that is the only thing that I am criticising. They should be respected as professionals - like doctors or anybody else - rather than revered as "masters". Such reverence is open to abuse, and there have been many such cases.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
colloredbrothers, I notice that you have read "Animal Farm". I believe that that book has a certain relevance to what I am trying to say.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
The biggest spanner that I would like to put into the works - and which may be seen as "argumentative" or "attacking" - is to say that I believe it is possible to be a Buddhist and still to discuss, question or debate. It seems very sad that so many people reject their authoritarian Christian background only to rush headlong into the authoritarianism of an alien culture. I am not saying that you are guilty of doing this, merely that an awful lot of Western Buddhists are.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
What is the purpose of showing somebody sitting? Doesn't each person have to find their own way in Zen?
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
@kanshiketsu1
Its nice to see such a master doing zazen it gives power to the practitioner, I see him sit and I am filled with the power of all sages that have sit like this, all in the same posture all with the same goal its beautiful. And what do you mean by each person having to find his own way?
colloredbrothers 1 year ago
@colloredbrothers Zen is meant to be about seeing clearly, not about hero worship? At least in theory, though the Zen religion is frequently quite different. Just because a person sits on a cushion with a shaven head does not mean that they are some kind of great sage. Even if they were, they wouldn't be able to live your life for you.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
@kanshiketsu1
Why are you attacking me? Do you not respect and are inspired by the Buddha or Dogen? Is this hero worship? I don't think so, you are overinterpreting my words and twisting them. This man did zazen for 60+ years, this is a symbol of pure devotion to truth this is thus inspiring not devotion or worship. You clearly intended to attack this video and anyone stating the opposite of you before hand.
colloredbrothers 1 year ago
@colloredbrothers I am not attacking you. I am simply questioning the apparent assumption that watching somebody else practise - no matter how many years they have been doing it - is a substitute for one's own experience. And while I may be inspired by the Buddha's teaching, that does not mean that I have to share in some people's wishful thinking about roshis, gurus or anybody else being somehow better than anybody else.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
@kanshiketsu1
I read the shobogenzo, not to worship it but so that it empowers me to practice more and better, in the same way I am inspired by this video, it is not a substitution for my practice that is another assumption you made which I never claimed.
It's not wishful thinking, people get inspired just like a basketball player is inspired by the best players so am I inspired by such masters how is this not making sense? Do more zazen and less analizing.
colloredbrothers 1 year ago
@colloredbrothers I was not saying that you worship the Shobogenzo or a teacher, merely that some people do, and that it causes problems. Surely you are not offended by the fact that I make such a point.
It is right and proper that people should respect a teacher, but it is, in my opinion, excessive when that respect turns into credulous adulation. The same danger is there in sport, music or any other walk of life.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
@kanshiketsu1
I think it is unlikely that anyone interested in the zen tradition will worship a master in a youtube video, anyway I understand your concern.
colloredbrothers 1 year ago
@colloredbrothers Why? Is it equally unlikely that a devout Roman Catholic would let priests get away with so much for so many years? After all, Christianity teaches brotherly love, does it not?
There have been numerous scandals in Western Buddhism enabled by students' blind devotion. Don't take my word for it - the information is freely available on the web.
kanshiketsu1 1 year ago
Thank You. Inspiring.
tomaszmigdal 1 year ago
i wish to sit zazen like master gudo
susanov 1 year ago
We can allow old master Gudo a little dozing during his zazen,especailly on a hot day...
But you and I - sit up ;-)
hceggeberth 2 years ago 2