CCW 2.68: Last Rants Part Two

[masonTganes]

MOvie was a faithful adaption. But it also didnt ad anything cinematicly. it was like a 3-d motion comic.

I loved the movie but non comic fans i was it with didnt get it and were bored.

[kurumais]

i thought this movie was going to be bomb i was suprised how much i liked it  i didnt like it as much as TDK or iron man but i really enjoyed it

[pobra17]

lately I've been viewing a lot of watchmen reviews and this was by far the best one IMO. No one else pointed out the fact that the movie did not give near enough back story for ozymandias which completely threw off the ending for most people. I went to see it with my gf and she said that if she hadn't been paying close attention she would have missed the fact that ozy was even a member of the watchmen. That was my biggest nitpick. She also said the first half was very boring for her.

[voomfrondel]

Well, I though the Rorschach scene was spot on, one because they cut out the scene where he was kills the rapist to show he wasn't ever gonna follow the Keane Act. And two, because that scene really showed how Rorshach really descended into a madness. I mean, even with the mask on, you could see him going crazy, his mind racing on how what to deal with this guy who feed a child to his dogs. I thought it really brought the character home succiently.

But it is weird that Jose didnt complain.

[xaoslegend]

Whoa I've found a nest of you nitpickers, hold on lemme get my raid. Anyhow for all you comic fans looking your gift horse in the mouth, congratulations Watchmen is now bombing thanks to the pincer attack from both the total idiot ignorant action fan audience and the geek comic book totalitarians. This could have been a huge step forward for us, now it will be used by studios as the reason not to do intelligent comic movies, or anything related goodbye good scifi and fantasy too. Thanks.

[comicculturewarrior]

I disagree xaoslegend, The Dark Knight (and to some extant Iron Man) were 'intelligent comic-book movie(s)' and made serious box-office, so I don't think the studios are going to back out on making more of them. But what DK and IM had that Watchmen lacked was appeal to a wider audience. Non-fans enjoyed them.  In its defense, a film like Watchmen stands to do very well in the DVD market once the extra footage is inserted and deals with the 'nitpicks.' ;-)

Thanks for commenting! Elliott

[xaoslegend]

Iron man was intelligent? Give me a break, what because it made the one point that a private weapons manufacturer might sell weapons to our enemies? TDK had some groundbreaking tones but in the end it's messages are pretty disturbing, Batman is still our hero and he uses unlimited (clearly warrantless) wiretapping to catch his enemy, uses torture, and conspires to lie to the public, "The hero we need" instead of the "Hero we deserve" this is only as intelligent as the Bush Administration is.

[comicculturewarrior]

What you're talking about is theme, not the 'intelligence' of the film. Neither TDK or IM were condescending to the viewers and showed respect for the source material. As someone who has seen his share of dumb comic book movies - Batman and Robin anyone? - I think I know a smart film when I see it. You may not like the themes the the movies had, but that doesn't make them dumb. Still, Watchmen was smart too, but a different animal from the others. Apples and oranges, IMO. Elliott

[deemar325]

Batman is George Bush?

[deemar325]

Agree, like I said Watchmen I think is gonna be our Blade Runner.

Hopefully this and TDK makes studios, realize that these films have to be mindless camp. Well most studios except FOX they fuck up everything.

[BlackPhoenix06]

Your last sentence reeks of truthfulness.

[comicculturewarrior]

Completely agree with you on the Blade Runner/Watchmen comparison. That's just how things go sometimes.

Jose

[locusmortis]

Nest of Nitpickers? Are you Stan Lee in disguise?

As it happens Elliot and Jose are pretty fair with this review and I'm not afraid to call them out if I disagree with their reviews.

The reason Watchmen is falling is for 2 reasons. General audiences can't relate to the characters the way they're portrayed and second its an arse-numbing 2hrs 43 minutes long. Films that make BIG money do it from people going 2, 3, 4 times and a non comic fan is unlikely to do that for such a long film.

[xaoslegend]

TDK was also a very long film, it was just simpler to understand and had a faster pace of action and more of it. This issue isn't so much length though of course that contributes, the issue is that it's actually an interesting film that takes a lot of time slowing down to really get detailed characterizations in. It's performance is mediocre now (for R rating not that mediocre) because it was advertised as an action flick when it's a thought/fable/ensemble flick which always have less appeal.

[Pinkhamsterino]

Some nitpicks I had with film: 1) Ozzy's tiger with horns didn't work without the whole squid/genetic manipulation subplot. 2) Rorschach looked too conventional of a tough guy without his mask on. In the comic, he was geekish and homely without the mask on, in contrast to the vigilante tough guy he was wearing the mask. 3) The guy at the end with the smiley shirt and R's journal didn't look idiotic enough; it's supposed to be ironic that fate of the world is in the hands of a drooling idiot.

[Pinkhamsterino]

I just looked at the comic Watchmen for the first time since I first read it back in the '80s. I now see that I have to take back the criticism below and the other one I was going to make, regarding how it was infuriating watching Veidt singlehandedly beat the whole team attacking him without breaking a sweat. I now see those things are exactly the way they were in the comic, so I guess my problem is with Mr. Moore, not Mr. Snyder!

[Pinkhamsterino]

I agree that it started strong, but it started to lose me during the prison break sequence (Nite Owl kept having these goofy comic relief reaction shots to Silk Spectre & Rorschach beating and killing guys). Then came the sequence of Nite Owl and Rorschach solving the big mystery by beating up one stereotype sleazeball in a bar and then magically finding the all the right clues on the computer and file cabinet when breaking into one office in a huge building). That really started to lose me.

[jadekite22]

...Manhattan was responsible for the destruction. Did they forget that there were other, more sensitive and structural, issues that played a part in the Cold War other than Russia managing to not be responsible for blowing up a city. Hello; this doesn't change that Russia was still communist! What's worse is that they destroyed Dr. M's character by having him fall for this peace and think he no longer has a purpose to be on Earth. This basically contradicts his character, which is unacceptable.

[Truth4Power]

The Comidian, like Forest Gump, is placed in key turning points through out modern US history.

He's not a bad guy, he's a willing and happy tool of the US government.

-People get that.

All the rest of the charcters had so little backstory, that the people I talked to all basically said, "Cool special-fx, but why shoud I give a shit? This is the greatest GN of all time??"

Much respect to Snyder for filming the unfilmable, but I don't see any rewatch value outside fanboy universe.

[Truth4Power]

I have my doubts about this movies staying power at the box office.

2 people walked out at the theater I was at, and the lady behind me was snoring.

Ozymandis is so cold and distant, that it killed the suprise.

-The 'non-Watchmen fan' I was with, reffered to him as, 'That creepy Nazi dude'.

Rorsach and the Comedian were my favorite characters, espessially the Comedian.

I think that for the 'non-Watchmen fan', he was the only character that linked the story to the real world.

[Truth4Power]

Hey, I didn't pay 12 bucks to see some dude's blue dong!!

[jadekite22]

Excellent review of the film, especially the comments about how the non-comic fans reacted. I was a little dissapointed that you didn't address the changed ending because this actually killed the movie in my mind, not because it changed, but because it made little sense once the intial glow of the film fades and you actually sit down to think about the logic of it all. Also, did you feel like the power balance of the characters was a bit strange. Ozy is human yet impenetrable apparently...

[Truth4Power]

I agree.

If Dr Manhattan is an American weapon...

And that American weapon begins destroying cities...

How does that unite the world?

[jadekite22]

Now, don't get me wrong. I know exactly what the filmakers were trying to do with this ending. They tried to make it seem deeper by involving Dr. Manhattan in the plot and tying into the end of the Cold War, but what it gives us is an incredibly over-simplified view of world politics to the point where you have to ask if they even understood any of it. I mean, the uniting the world wasn't as huge of a problem except for the fact that the decision was made instantly after they find out...

[Truth4Power]

My problem with the world uniting is um...

Put the shoe on the other foot.

If the Soviets lose control of their super-weapon, and it destroys NYC, London, Berlin, Tokyo, and Moscow...

Are we really going to be singing Kumbaya with the Reds?

9/11 took 3000 American lives and people wanted blood.

-Now imagine losing 3,4,5 million American lives to a 'rogue' Soviet weapon.

That would bring peace??

Only an outside threat could unite mankind, that was the point of the book. IMHO