Jack Nicklaus 13th Hole 1986 Masters

[dillingerexcape87]

best sound ever



[Jamesdarrencrowe]

@2053tee Retard

[robertschelly]

Jack reached and 2-putted here.

[TheBobbygrenier]

Jacks my idol....best golf swing ever...a true ball striker

[emncaity]

@2053tee

What are you talking about? I can't tell if this is a bad attempt at humor or not.

[bicklesby1]

@2053tee in bizarro world right?

[marcusdolby1]

@2053tee Huh? Maybe its to early in the morning or maybe I am not the sharpest tool in the shed but Jack won this Masters and DID NOT pull this shot into the pond..... there is no pond on this hole.

[emncaity]

@marcusdolby1

You're sharp enough to be 100% right here. There is no "pond" to the left on 13; Rae's Creek winds across the front of the green (closest on the front right) and down the left side. Seve hit a 4-iron (I think) into the pond on 15 to kill his chances. Jack, of course, won the damn thing at age 46, as challenger after challenger came to 18 and failed to catch him (most notably Norman, who needed only a par to tie, and Kite, who missed about a 10-footer for a tying birdie).

[medlock01]

Anyone who tells you to put your weight on the arches or balls of your feet, tell them to take a look at Mr Nicklaus left foot at impact ( and beyond ).

[TheNYgolfer]

keep hitting the 8 key and tell me if I'm the only one who creamed my pants after 5 times :)

[emncaity]

@TheNYgolfer

Nope. ;-)

[CazHattrick11]

I hit that shot maybe once a month. God damn you Jack.

[jcking33]

great sir!! you've done it good!

[66ott7]

YESSSSSS SIR!

[dschultz6072]

sounds like a rifle shot

[emncaity]

Now here's a guy who violates so, SO many of the elements of the methods espoused by so many tour-hanger-on gurus...and yet I hear he did OK. Why is that?

[Madisonrvr]

@emncaity Great comment emn-- like Jim Thorpe said, except for the three inch long space where club meets ball, who gives a s&&t?

[emncaity]

@Madisonrvr

(thanks...) Well, mostly who gives a s&&t is the industry that makes endless money off complicating the swing, not to mention equipment co's who make zillions long past the point of diminishing returns. Like, for instance, how that $500 driver is somewhat better than the persimmon driver I bought for $50 back in 1980, maybe 50 yards better, which is significant, sure--but it ain't ten times better, and what's more, it allows me to be a worse player. Seems kinda lame to want that.

[brainysnaeha]

I have my own swing looks similair to jack's and i have say i'm now hitting

any irons much solid than other swing especially the modern swing that 99%

of teaching pro taught these days.

It doesn't matter how it looks whatever it works it works!

And that sound is addictive as hell!

[pinboyjorf]

that sounded awesome.

[rw5791]

#1 rule? keep your left arm straight.

How to do that? let your left heel come up on the backswing.Then you plant your left heel back down and pull the butt end of the club down.Everything after that is on superglide,just let it happen.

[emncaity]

Play it 20 times, 50 times, then go out and try to make that sound. And--Jack says--keep your head still while you do it. You might surprise yourself.

[thevmanvj]

SWISHHH! a flush 2-iron from 210 yds.

That takes me back.....LOL

[emncaity]

Yeah, I hear he was pretty good.

[miw309]

So sweet, sounds like he's cracking a whip!

[stevepising]

The greatest ever.



[emncaity]

@stevepising

Bar none. I guess if Woods ever passes his majors total, you'd have to give it to him officially, but Woods didn't have Jack's level of competition...and more importantly, if you understand that golf is about more than just what you shoot, that it should have something to do with character, maturity, and self-control, with who you are, well...you know. Not even in the ballpark. Not by a long shot. Not ever.

[emomagica]

@emncaity Golf has never been about all of the stuff you added to criticize woods. Golf has always been about shooting the lowest score. All the gentleman's game BS was always thrown out the door when it came to race and gender. I LOL every time I hear someone talk about how classy of a sport golf is compared to the other major sports.

[emncaity]

@emomagica

I'm not minimizing what golf did to exclude people on race and gender, although frankly it came down more to income and disparate impact than to race or gender per se in most times and places. But the larger point is, if you think the other majors sports didn't exclude people on the basis of race and/or gender, or if you think race still isn't a huge factor in other major sports, or if you think mistreatment of women isn't rampant among participants in other sports...

[emncaity]

@emomagica

The people who played golf 50 years ago weren't perfect, for sure. They were products of their time just like you are. But if you're trying to make the case that there is no difference between banging every cocktail waitress a guy can find and humiliating his wife and children in the process, versus spending literally half a century in the public eye without a single hint of marital scandal...I guess you can try to make that case.

[emncaity]

@emomagica

As for golf being only about the lowest score, of course even you don't mean that. If Woods had been arrested for child molestation (also a law in the state of Florida, just as laws related to marriage and public conduct), I seriously doubt you'd be out here arguing for how that's all "personal stuff" with Tiger and how we should just evaluate him only on how he hits a golf ball. This is where it starts becoming apparent that you don't think what he did is all that big a deal.

[emomagica]

@emncaity No, he would be a criminal and still a great golfer--- just not a good person. Him cheating on his wife has no bearing on my respect for him as a golfer. I don't need media built heroes with perfect lives to show me the way.

[TheNYgolfer]

@emomagica Nice response.The golfing upper muckiemucks constantly try to rub their conservative values in our faces.Ever notice how after a golf tournament they always make it a point to zoom in on the wife and children and then they make sure the wife and children run out to kiss and embrace the winner *L* As conservative as they are they made sure not to speak out against Tiger! Why?When Tiger contends ratings and attendance goes up by 50%. He puts asses in the seats and that's the bottom line

[emomagica]

@TheNYgolfer Hate how the golf media tries to sensationalize EVERYTHING. Just let them play golf! You're right: Without Tiger Woods purses would be lower. He did what Jack and others could not do, enthrall non-golfers to watch the game.

[emncaity]

@emomagica

For the record, some of those wife-and-kid shots do seem awfully contrived. Some don't, but you get the feeling that it's all obligatory now.

But re purses, etc., sure, Woods brought a lot of money into the game and popularized it, just as Arnold Palmer did before. So what? What is the value of "enthralling non-golfers," if to do that you have to put up with a guy who curses after bad shots even though he knows millions of kids are watching? (ct'd...)

[emncaity]

@emomagica

....So there's more money in the game; so the top guys make $4M a year instead of $1-2M; so a bunch of guys down the list you've barely heard of can get rich without ever winning a tournament, helped out by game-enhancing equipment (trust me, some of those guys couldn't break 80 with blades and persimmon), and with skills that would've had them struggling on a minitour a generation ago. The rich get richer, the mediocre get to keep playing. How is that an improvement, really?

[rorikjunior]

@emomagica This is not a true statement. I just very recently started playing golf at 43 and was never before interested in that sport overall and had minimal access to TV coverage of any tournament, except perhaps Masters. Yet, I vividly remember Nicklaus' victory in 86 ..The difference today is an enormous marketing effort by e.g. Nike to create "heroes" like Tiger Woods and other sports idols

[emncaity]

@TheNYgolfer

Yeah, it's all about the money and nothing else, isn't it?

And since when was faithfulness to a family a "conservative value"? I'm about two ticks to the left of Rachel Maddow politically, and I think this would be a helluva lot better country if being a faithful husband and a good father were a widely held value in practice, not just in words.

[TheNYgolfer]

@emncaity "2 ticks left of rachel" thats funny LoL. I didn't mean to imply that faithfulness and family are values that are exclusive to "conservatives". I respect that. I just don't like having it rubbed in my face every single time I watch a golfing event on TV. I watch golf for the sport NOT for a lesson on ethics, god and politics. Just as I watch the Super Bowl for the sport not expecting to have Janet's right tit flashing on my screen :)

[emncaity]

@emomagica

I don't "need" that either, but you're posing a false dichotomy here--first by your implication that the only two alternatives are "perfect" or "banging over 120 women who aren't your wife," and a second pair of false alternatives that people either think your way or are the kind of people who "need media-built heroes with perfect lives to show them the way."

[emncaity]

@emomagica

Personally, I couldn't have any more admiration for his skill, his discipline on the course, his mental strength (easily the best out there since Nicklaus, a man among boys really), his attempts to continue to improve, etc.  It's just that within the game and its traditions, there has always been more to being a champion than skill alone.

[tenillechristine]

that's a nice stack and tilt move.

[emncaity]

@tenillechristine

Yeah...they used to just call it a golf swing around a steady head.

[71lupenzo710]

jack is a jedi master of golf

[emncaity]

Seriously, it's like a drug...I have to keep coming back here periodically, just to hear the sound...

[RunsHorses]

@emncaity Me, too

[a8figureman]

you don't have to see where that ball when it was stuck in the screws.... what a sound i love that sound.

[vg4030]

WOAH! Did you hear the sounds that made!?

[GeorgiaDawgs804]

Nicklaus was the greatest.

[lonstar70]

WHY do you only show tee shots with no results as to where the ball ends up?

[gamecock930]

such a crisp shot...sounded like a bullwhip

[Melkay1Z]

Interesting dialog on lateral movement. It reminds me of Curtis Strange in his prime and how much his head moved laterally. He won back-to-back US Opens in a time when nobody was doing that, and it tells you how good his timing was. Incidentally, I saw Strange last year at a Champions event, and his head is now almost perfectly still - no lateral movement. It would be almost impossible to maintain that level of timing in your 50's in my opinion.

[emncaity]

So smart. I agree. You "can" violate almost any fundamental if you're talented enough, but some fundamentals add stability to your game for decades and make it easier to find the ball with the clubhead in more or less the same way most of the time.

Incidentally, I don't think it's any coincidence that as Tiger has quieted his head movement (a little) over the years, his consistency has improved. Faldo's another one who is just dead-quiet from the start of the downswing through impact.

[SuperMilo15]

sucha nice noise, i could listen to that all day

[emncaity]

It might be sick to keep coming back here just to hear it again, but I do it anyway.

[RunsHorses]

Same here. What a striker of the ball!

[J700JAM]

Watch his head in relation to the bushes behind him. His head remains almost stationary throughout the swing.

[112358p]

EH FUCK ALL OF YOU GUYS. DuMB PIECES OF SHIT. EMPTY SKULLs.

[earthshine2k]

.... let it rip from there. I think Nicklaus loaded the shaft as well as anyone ever did. he used a softer shaft in his driver, but that move into his left side let him lag it w/ out getting laid off and stuck like a Sergio or, as we know, Tiger. Hogan and Nicklaus had the luxury of being able to hit the ball as hard as they coudl w/ out the fear of hooking the ball. Must be nice. This particular shot is testament to that point. His approach into 15 half an hour later was even better.

[emncaity]

You notice how teachers have backed away from the "let your head move" digression of the '80s-'90s? Tiger has been improving as his head has gotten steadier, and you don't really see people moving hugely off the ball and then trying to time that lateral slide back through the ball anymore. Turns out keeping your head pretty much in one places actually works, along with making a wide arc, coiling the upper half and releasing from the ground up...amazing, that those old guys knew anything. ;-)

[LKskateNC]

jack always worked on keeping his head dead centre and rotating around it.

[emncaity]

Yup. Had a pretty passable career doing it, too.

[cmpody]

The important key is not so much whether the head moves or not (its gonna move a little no matter who you are) but that your head stays behind the ball.

[cmpody]

Very true, although Hogan fought a ferocious hook early in his career but thats the way those Texas players learned to play back then.

[earthshine2k]

Wow. Some good swing conversation here. Sorry i missed it. Yeah, Nicklaus probably had the most dynamic swing of all time. His teacher taught him at an early age to keep his head that 'quiet'. Jack described (as you guys point out) his cervical spine as ' the hub of a wheel' which every thing rotated around. Jack was quiet, but definitely not 'stack-n-tilt'. His left heel ball position eliminated the need for any lateral movement off the ball to get behind it, so it was just coil and ...

[geemusic1]

great sound, yes? Only those long irons! I gues the hybrids are great but here is no replacement for a well-struck long iron.

[emncaity]

Boy, and echoing off the pines, too...mmmm. Tasty.

[silgneb]

spanked that beyatch

[emncaity]

Sorry, just one more (you've got me on what I think is a significant point re the swing). If you think of the "relatively still point" as the top of the spine (back of the neck, basically), this explains a lot of apparent movement that's not really movement--the turning of the head.

[paulski5]

Yes! You are on it em. The 3d centre of the swing. Between the shoulders and...for a DTL view, in the middle of the spine? Not too sure on the last part but I will find out. Regardless, we are not built like popsicles (spine is not through the middle of body) so you can have head movement with a centered pivot.

[emncaity]

Right--what people are usually seeing is the movement of the face, chin, whatever, but not a big lateral movement from the cervical portion of the spine. You probably know that Nicklaus later said that he agreed you couldn't--and probably shouldn't--have an absolutely stock-still head, the swivel being one example of permissible movement, and the tendency to move slightly back and down on the downswing (prob. counterbalancing) being another...

[emncaity]

...But, he said, it all needs to be very "quiet," or it destroys the swinging motion, just like if you're swinging a pendant around with your hand, you tend to keep your hand in one place relative to the arc. If you move it suddenly from one spot to another, the arc gets disrupted and out of control, and the pendant will bounce around.

[qbb01]

CRAAAAAAAAACK!

[paulski5]

Shit yes.

[googs247]

I could listen to the sound of a flushed long iron with a traditional blade head on balata over and over again! Awesome!

[emncaity]

@googs247

You said it.

[lasherza]

@googs247 haha true

[paulski5]

He won...and prolly hit a good shot there (this was during his run)...but all I can think with these late Nicklaus swings is.....his head is way too still...

Jack shoulda left it alone. (like he did when he was younger)

[joelmc73]

You've got a 'keeps his head too still' thing with Jack.

FYI...He didn't develop this late in his career. It was Jack Grout in his early career who while practicing use to grab Jack's hair during his swing, to teach him to keep his head still.

[paulski5]

Naw man. All the pictures I've seen of early Jack are different than when he was older.

[emncaity]

That's nuts. "Head still" was his primary swing thought from the time Grout started teaching him. Have you read everything he's said about it? I've literally never heard anybody say that photo or film evidence shows Nicklaus moving much more as a younger player than later on.

[paulski5]

I have read what he has said. Whether his head moved more or the same what I should have emphasized more was the fact that his head was further back in his stance early on. (particularly with the long clubs I mean) A miscommunication on my part. Still not a fan of stationary heads. Esp. with long clubs and stances with normal weight distribution.

[emncaity]

You've probably read what Nicklaus said later on, when he moderated his position somewhat from "keep the head absolutely motionless" to "keep it quiet, keep movement to a minimum." And you're absolutely right that he more or less preset his head behind the ball with longer clubs when he was younger. Going back to your original post, I do see your point now, I think--that if you overobsess on keeping the head absolutely motionless, it really does interfere with freedom of movement.

[emncaity]

But it's also true that some young pros have a huge lateral move with the head and upper structure, usually based on some notion of the "modern swing." I'm not sure it's all that helpful to them, and I know it's harmful to most average players to overdo it that way too.

[emncaity]

In fact, if you watch Tiger's swing, or Faldo at his peak, or other top players, it's amazing how minimal the movement is. You can put a cursor on their right ear and watch how still they are, esp. on the downswing or even after the first few frames of the backswing. I've taught players who've been sold on the "don't have to keep your head still" thing and go too far the other way, with the huge move off the ball and then trying to time the move back into the ball. Much inconsistency.

[paulski5]

It's true you can overdo anything. Most guys move their heads back a little in the backswing even without trying. But you should not be able to balance solely on your right foot at the top of the swing. (if you lift your left leg in the backswing like in baseball) There should be some automatic "bounce back" onto the left foot.

[emncaity]

Yeah, I think that's about right. I do think it's interesting that Nicklaus and Hogan both are seen by many modern gurus and analysts as being reverse-pivoters--which tells you about how much credibility to give the gurus and analysts, many of whom advise "moving off the ball," or letting the head move well back and then timing the lunge back through the ball.

[emncaity]

The fact is, both Hogan and Nicklaus got their upper bodies behind the ball at the top and were behind it when they hit it. A true reverse-pivoter tend to lift the club, and what little turn he has usually leaves his front shoulder at or in front of the ball. Even Tiger is keeping his head MUCH more still these days, esp. laterally. It's pretty damn hard to have a true swinging motion at all if your head is moving around; the "swing" becomes more of a lunge or a shove.

[pacmanj4]

what iron is he hitting?

[emncaity]

I still have the tape--I'll go back and look as soon as I get a chance.

[sretsam68]

I believe this was a three-iron. Looks to be a very controlled swing, too.

[deman970]

all done with a blade with a sweetspot the size of a dime... not like todays clubs

[greenjacket12]

this prodigy hits the damn sweet spot twenty times out of 10.

[addamsmith]

Oh yes the sound of flush, you don't have to have a look when you here that sound

[emncaity]

It is flush, absolutely--but a good deal of the sound comes from the proximity to the woods on the left. If you've ever really caught one off a tee box with trees up close, you know what I'm saying.

[yummpyummp]

@addamsmith hit behind it barely!!!

[yummpyummp]

@addamsmith Jack Nicklaus 14th hole approach is called pure buddy

[crunchypotato]

listen to the contact!