How many Ozark counties in Missouri and Akansas were either pro union or nuetral? The fewer slaves in an area seemed to lead to luke warm enthusiasm for the confederacy.
West Virgiania broke from Virginia. Likewise, there were pro union counties aand pro union guerillas in the Appalachians of TN, GA and NC.
Murdering feds, every state is still under occupation of yankee aggression. The days are getting close, it started here and I do not think its finished. These hills will once again shelter the free hearts of the resistance.
These stories were told to me by my grandfather when i was young, one of the only things I can remember about him. he was known to cuss at people with kansas license plates just because they were "damn Jayhawkers" When you look at the guerrillas actions dont look at it from a pro/anti slavery standpoint. the Kansas red legs would routinly come into my native county and murder and burn all they could...What would you do about that? I sympathise with their situation. google general order 11 1863
FACT: These "anti-slavery" Kansas scum who "liberated" Missouri slaves actually hauled them back to Kansas where they transported many to Louisiana where they were sold back into slavery! Such a noble cause these Kansans had! Seems greed is greed whether it's oil, land or slaves.
hey thats where my uncle cousens and grandma and granpa are from i was born there do you know the williams famley im goin up there in june for my cuzens weddin
my gggrand father Dr John Philip Trolinger and a friend of his were going to osceola and had stopped at the rivers edge and called out for some one to send over the skiff so they could cross not knowing that Jim Lange and his red legs were already there when all of a sudden they were fired upon by pickets and his friend was shot in the jaw losing it but they managed to escape, and this is known fact!
First of all, it was a Federal Prision, not a "Jayhawker" or "Kansas" prision, that means it was patrolled by Federal troops. Second of all, there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate the intent was to kill the prisoners. It was in all likelihood, a tragic accident. Thirdly, an accident hardly justifies the murdering of over 170 people and the total descruction of a town.
My 2nd great-grandmother Nancy Ellen Dunlap Guinn-Dark was a widow of one of the nine and left me, through my grandmother, a partial account. Thirty years ago helped by town historian John Lapsley Mills I filled in the gaps. It was 2500 buildings--not folks--over 15,000 town folks. Men and boys alone killed were at least 40; hundreds more were wounded. Also some old people and infants died in the fires. My 2nd-great-grandmother personally cared for hundreds of wounds and burns afterward.
Mind you this was 5 years AFTER Missourians invaded the Kansas Territory. After Missourians illegally voted for Democrats and other pro-slavery members for the Kansas Legilsature, preventing all Kansans and Republicans from voting in their own elections by force. Then in power Missourians established the most restrictive pro-slavery laws in the country.
Any way you want to look at this conflict, who was right, who was wrong, Missourians started it. That is fact.
You're awfully young to have such strong opinions about who needs killing, child. I doubt there were very many - if any - slaveowners in Osceola. Of course, the gutless rabble led by Lane and Jennison didn't much make that distinction, either. You need to take a walk across the killing fields some day; see the sights and breathe the air. Then see if you're still as hot for massacre.
I've seen slavery up close and personal, have you? It's got no "up" side. I also had the experience of being present at an ethnic-cleansing; again no "up" side, but I learned something profound from it: there is no moral high ground once the killing begins.
Go get some blood on your boots, kid, before you ever even think about talking morals to me again. This is a free lesson, don't waste it.
@robh64 fuck kansas if i had my way we would ride and burn it to the ground again im a missourian and i say that with pride my great great granfather rode with bloody bill anderson and i was past down storie from what kansas men did to are people killing and raping and burning are great land all over slavery u cant say all white southerners owned slaves there is fact many free blacks had slaves as well and infact there were blacks in the south that faught for her and was payed as whites
hey did you know a black man and guerilla actually scouted out the town of lawrence before the raid. that stands in contrast as to who neeeded killing. he felt it was the jayhawkers.
I've heard there was a Negro scout involved, but have never found irrefutable proof; have you? The writings I have access to describe the approach-march to Lawrence, claims Lane narrowly missed being captured in bed, details the quantities of looted goods found in his house that were positively indentified as belonging to Missourians. The few details given about the actual killings sound like a Terminex man describing his days' work. Just exterminating vermin.
What about women and children raped and killed who had no political rights? Far more than a few slave owners were killed that day. Also the Kansans ILLEGALLY settled Native American treaty lands--the whole of Kansas and slaughtered Native Americans and any Kansan not "anti-slavery enough." Read _War to the Knife_ by a KANSAN. Also by killing slavers do you include the Black African chiefs who sold their own first, and the Northern ship owners who first bought and took them south?
Yeah right, because there were no Indians in Missouri before the whites came, correct? Every state butchered Indians sadly. Kansas is no different.
The key difference between Kansas and Missouri is the fact that Kansans thought enslaving people was wrong, Missourians did not. Both sides felt strong enough to kill over the issue, I'm just glad my people were fighting for the rights of their fellow man.
The slaves in Osceola were fewer than 10% of the total population and owned by a tiny minority. So, why then did the Kansans pillage and burn the majority's homes? Also at the time, slavery was legal in the U.S. by Congressional and U.S. Supreme Court authorizations. It didn't end in the UNION, until 1865, remember? Finally, the KANSANS sold some of the slaves they "freed" from Osceola in Louisiana. Kansans were sure against slavery. Explain Brown vs. the Kansas City Schools, 1954, then...
Oh, since the federal government (which was controlled by the slave owners) said slavery was ok that makes it ok? Slavery is slavery and always wrong. Whether it's one slave owner or a million, it's still wrong. So it doesn't matter if there a lots of slave owners or only a few.
I think you mean Brown vs. Board (which was Topeka, not Kansas City). I'm proud of the fact that Kansas was one of the first states to end segregation in public schools. And segregation is a fary cry from slavery.
I may be ignorant, but at least I know proper grammer and the correct use of "your" and "you're." Virtually no Kansans supported the Lecompton Constitution. The 1856 elections that established Lecompton were massivley rigged by Missourians. Kansans established their own Government a year later that prohibited slavery. In 1864, 79% of Kansans voted for Lincoln. KS has the honor of giving Lincoln his highest winning percentage in any state. Hardly seems like half of Kansas was pro-slavery to me.
YOU'RE, if you must be punctual. No doubt Kansas was a abolitionist state, due to massive federal troops suppressing southern sympathies at lecompton, pawnee etc. It doesn't cover all the citizens so its more complicated. Wasn't one of the major guerillas from Kansas?
You're right, it does. This, and the collapse of a building in Kansas City used as a prison for the female relatives of known guerillas, were two of the contributing factors to the Lawrence raid. My great-great grandfather and his brother rode with Quantrill; they were both there and both wrote that Lawrence was fair payment-in-kind for what the redlegs were doing all over Missouri.
it might have been a trade off but i would regret not getting those more responsible if i were one of the guerillas. i read lane hid in a corn field. I even read where a black scout actually surveyed the town before the raid. stark contrast to "slavers" commentors comments above in his ignorance.
Please, you Missourians bring it up all the time. I bet you've never heard of Quantrill's raids to Spring Hill and Olathe, Kansas. When his men killed dozens and burned the towns to the ground. Lawrence was far from the only instance of terrorism from Missourians in Kansas.
dont forget diamond springs near council grove and salina. also humboldt was raided but not by quantrill. these raids occurred before or after lawrence? and wee they in retaliation for raids in mo? at least eastern ks is prosperus, the union burned out most of western mo
Thanks for the lesson. I love MO history. It was much different and brutal being a border state during the war. You couldn't trust your neighbors, much less the soldiers.
How many Ozark counties in Missouri and Akansas were either pro union or nuetral? The fewer slaves in an area seemed to lead to luke warm enthusiasm for the confederacy.
West Virgiania broke from Virginia. Likewise, there were pro union counties aand pro union guerillas in the Appalachians of TN, GA and NC.
Wanderer359 4 months ago
Murdering feds, every state is still under occupation of yankee aggression. The days are getting close, it started here and I do not think its finished. These hills will once again shelter the free hearts of the resistance.
STfrontiersman 1 year ago
These stories were told to me by my grandfather when i was young, one of the only things I can remember about him. he was known to cuss at people with kansas license plates just because they were "damn Jayhawkers" When you look at the guerrillas actions dont look at it from a pro/anti slavery standpoint. the Kansas red legs would routinly come into my native county and murder and burn all they could...What would you do about that? I sympathise with their situation. google general order 11 1863
MissouriGuerrilla 1 year ago
FACT: These "anti-slavery" Kansas scum who "liberated" Missouri slaves actually hauled them back to Kansas where they transported many to Louisiana where they were sold back into slavery! Such a noble cause these Kansans had! Seems greed is greed whether it's oil, land or slaves.
BigCreekBBQ 1 year ago
hey thats where my uncle cousens and grandma and granpa are from i was born there do you know the williams famley im goin up there in june for my cuzens weddin
dealer43 2 years ago
my gggrand father Dr John Philip Trolinger and a friend of his were going to osceola and had stopped at the rivers edge and called out for some one to send over the skiff so they could cross not knowing that Jim Lange and his red legs were already there when all of a sudden they were fired upon by pickets and his friend was shot in the jaw losing it but they managed to escape, and this is known fact!
bill trolinger
formally of Clinton,mo.
u.s.army retired
badbillyt1949 3 years ago
Interesting historical fact: Kansas was the first state in the nation to ban the Ku Klux Klan in 1924.
Just admit that slavery was wrong and the actions of Missourians in Lawrence were wrong, and I'll admit the actions of Kansans in Osceola was wrong.
14691 3 years ago 2
what a joke, brown vs topeka? also jayhawkers tore down a kc prison foundation killing mo women. the missorians were just out for revenge. look it up
robh64 2 years ago
First of all, it was a Federal Prision, not a "Jayhawker" or "Kansas" prision, that means it was patrolled by Federal troops. Second of all, there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate the intent was to kill the prisoners. It was in all likelihood, a tragic accident. Thirdly, an accident hardly justifies the murdering of over 170 people and the total descruction of a town.
14691 2 years ago
Comment removed
14691 2 years ago
My 2nd great-grandmother Nancy Ellen Dunlap Guinn-Dark was a widow of one of the nine and left me, through my grandmother, a partial account. Thirty years ago helped by town historian John Lapsley Mills I filled in the gaps. It was 2500 buildings--not folks--over 15,000 town folks. Men and boys alone killed were at least 40; hundreds more were wounded. Also some old people and infants died in the fires. My 2nd-great-grandmother personally cared for hundreds of wounds and burns afterward.
faboscsillag 3 years ago
Mind you this was 2 years BEFORE the Lawrence Massacre.
lyden2006 3 years ago
Mind you this was 5 years AFTER Missourians invaded the Kansas Territory. After Missourians illegally voted for Democrats and other pro-slavery members for the Kansas Legilsature, preventing all Kansans and Republicans from voting in their own elections by force. Then in power Missourians established the most restrictive pro-slavery laws in the country.
Any way you want to look at this conflict, who was right, who was wrong, Missourians started it. That is fact.
14691 2 years ago
I grew up in the Osceola area hearing these stories my whole life. Four of the families mentioned in Richard's book are my ancestors.
Reading Richard's book gave me new insight on my heritage and family history.
If your from the Missouri/Kansas area or just a civil war buff this is a must read.
Chuck Shepherd
Springfield, Mo.
U.S. Navy, Retired
bubblehed738 4 years ago
the slavers needed to be killed
ksjayhawker3791 4 years ago
You're awfully young to have such strong opinions about who needs killing, child. I doubt there were very many - if any - slaveowners in Osceola. Of course, the gutless rabble led by Lane and Jennison didn't much make that distinction, either. You need to take a walk across the killing fields some day; see the sights and breathe the air. Then see if you're still as hot for massacre.
Osage1956 4 years ago
Yeah, because only Kansans raided and killed innocent civilians. I cannot think of any instance when Missourians did that...
At least Kansas was on the moral side. That's an argument Missourians will NEVER be able to make, although they try to defend slavery to this day.
14691 3 years ago
I've seen slavery up close and personal, have you? It's got no "up" side. I also had the experience of being present at an ethnic-cleansing; again no "up" side, but I learned something profound from it: there is no moral high ground once the killing begins.
Go get some blood on your boots, kid, before you ever even think about talking morals to me again. This is a free lesson, don't waste it.
Osage1956 3 years ago
kansans on moral side? they stole slaves and resold some, killed farmers etc.
robh64 2 years ago
@robh64 fuck kansas if i had my way we would ride and burn it to the ground again im a missourian and i say that with pride my great great granfather rode with bloody bill anderson and i was past down storie from what kansas men did to are people killing and raping and burning are great land all over slavery u cant say all white southerners owned slaves there is fact many free blacks had slaves as well and infact there were blacks in the south that faught for her and was payed as whites
jeffery3590 1 year ago
hey did you know a black man and guerilla actually scouted out the town of lawrence before the raid. that stands in contrast as to who neeeded killing. he felt it was the jayhawkers.
robh64 4 years ago 2
I've heard there was a Negro scout involved, but have never found irrefutable proof; have you? The writings I have access to describe the approach-march to Lawrence, claims Lane narrowly missed being captured in bed, details the quantities of looted goods found in his house that were positively indentified as belonging to Missourians. The few details given about the actual killings sound like a Terminex man describing his days' work. Just exterminating vermin.
Osage1956 4 years ago
I have transcripts from one of the surving members of qauntrill troop. I can provide you a copy or email of it.
robh64 4 years ago
Ah, so you're saying Black people liked slavery? That explains a lot. You're crazy.
14691 2 years ago
What about women and children raped and killed who had no political rights? Far more than a few slave owners were killed that day. Also the Kansans ILLEGALLY settled Native American treaty lands--the whole of Kansas and slaughtered Native Americans and any Kansan not "anti-slavery enough." Read _War to the Knife_ by a KANSAN. Also by killing slavers do you include the Black African chiefs who sold their own first, and the Northern ship owners who first bought and took them south?
faboscsillag 3 years ago
Yeah right, because there were no Indians in Missouri before the whites came, correct? Every state butchered Indians sadly. Kansas is no different.
The key difference between Kansas and Missouri is the fact that Kansans thought enslaving people was wrong, Missourians did not. Both sides felt strong enough to kill over the issue, I'm just glad my people were fighting for the rights of their fellow man.
14691 3 years ago
The slaves in Osceola were fewer than 10% of the total population and owned by a tiny minority. So, why then did the Kansans pillage and burn the majority's homes? Also at the time, slavery was legal in the U.S. by Congressional and U.S. Supreme Court authorizations. It didn't end in the UNION, until 1865, remember? Finally, the KANSANS sold some of the slaves they "freed" from Osceola in Louisiana. Kansans were sure against slavery. Explain Brown vs. the Kansas City Schools, 1954, then...
faboscsillag 3 years ago
Oh, since the federal government (which was controlled by the slave owners) said slavery was ok that makes it ok? Slavery is slavery and always wrong. Whether it's one slave owner or a million, it's still wrong. So it doesn't matter if there a lots of slave owners or only a few.
I think you mean Brown vs. Board (which was Topeka, not Kansas City). I'm proud of the fact that Kansas was one of the first states to end segregation in public schools. And segregation is a fary cry from slavery.
14691 3 years ago
your so ignorant, half of mo was for lincoln and some of kansas was pro south-lecompton junction city etc. misinformed college grad i bet
robh64 2 years ago
I may be ignorant, but at least I know proper grammer and the correct use of "your" and "you're." Virtually no Kansans supported the Lecompton Constitution. The 1856 elections that established Lecompton were massivley rigged by Missourians. Kansans established their own Government a year later that prohibited slavery. In 1864, 79% of Kansans voted for Lincoln. KS has the honor of giving Lincoln his highest winning percentage in any state. Hardly seems like half of Kansas was pro-slavery to me.
14691 2 years ago
YOU'RE, if you must be punctual. No doubt Kansas was a abolitionist state, due to massive federal troops suppressing southern sympathies at lecompton, pawnee etc. It doesn't cover all the citizens so its more complicated. Wasn't one of the major guerillas from Kansas?
robh64 2 years ago
and all you ever here about is the Lawrence raid. this needs more exposure
robh64 4 years ago 2
You're right, it does. This, and the collapse of a building in Kansas City used as a prison for the female relatives of known guerillas, were two of the contributing factors to the Lawrence raid. My great-great grandfather and his brother rode with Quantrill; they were both there and both wrote that Lawrence was fair payment-in-kind for what the redlegs were doing all over Missouri.
Osage1956 4 years ago
it might have been a trade off but i would regret not getting those more responsible if i were one of the guerillas. i read lane hid in a corn field. I even read where a black scout actually surveyed the town before the raid. stark contrast to "slavers" commentors comments above in his ignorance.
robh64 4 years ago
Please, you Missourians bring it up all the time. I bet you've never heard of Quantrill's raids to Spring Hill and Olathe, Kansas. When his men killed dozens and burned the towns to the ground. Lawrence was far from the only instance of terrorism from Missourians in Kansas.
14691 2 years ago
dont forget diamond springs near council grove and salina. also humboldt was raided but not by quantrill. these raids occurred before or after lawrence? and wee they in retaliation for raids in mo? at least eastern ks is prosperus, the union burned out most of western mo
robh64 2 years ago
Thanks for the lesson. I love MO history. It was much different and brutal being a border state during the war. You couldn't trust your neighbors, much less the soldiers.
Gribnitz1 4 years ago