The problem is this. Do we have a right to food? Food is more important to life than health care. If we don't have a right to food then we don't have a right to health care.
Ok... so what you're saying is that if person A exists, they have the right to healthcare. Then it's person B's responsibility to pay for person A's right.
So what does person B get in return? And what is person A's responsibility?
@icecoldbath You show me in the Constitution where it says that healthcare is a right. No offense, but it doesn't matter what you think, it matters what the Constitution says.
where in the U.S. Constitution does it say you "have a right to healthcare" IT DOESN'T...do you know why? Because they understood the ramifiations of government running such a system. Your arguments seem to be solely based on an emotional level without any facts, reasoning or logic. So, just by your existance, I am in your debt? Rights are only granted by your own responsibilities (outside of the constitution). Your right does not constitute my responsibility, unless I have the right to own u
here is the bottom line and hear me out. PLEASE do not label me anything. Right wing/left wing/ conservo liberal anything.
NOONE is ENTITLED to the fruits of someone elses labor. If someone ASKS me to help them, i have the choice to help or not. If a person that smokes, is overweight, drinks heavily ASKS me for healthcare, i say no. If im given NO CHOICE to take care of him, thats STEALING. I dont understand why thats so hard to comprehend.
Basically the argument against any government activity is that the more any government does for it's people the more it takes from them. Our country was founded by and for people that were responsible individualists, that wanted as much freedom as possible. Government is a necessary evil we need to keep as small as possible.
The health bill is not about health CARE. it's about health INSURANCE.
Health insurance is not a right. It is not a privilege. It is a RESPONSIBILITY.
Hospitals should be required to treat people regardless of their ability to pay. That doesn't mean that the person they treated no longer owes them compensation for saving their life. The hospital would go out of business and that will KILL people. People who can afford to help others, should. Be it with extra time, extra money, etc.
@CaptainCocaine (continued) The government shouldn't decide how we help others. They have done a tremendously crappy job of it since FDR's administration. All federal funding of social programs does is take money from charitable social organizations that could use the money MUCH more efficiently, being that many of their workers are volunteers instead of government employees that are entitled to benefits and retirement. Endless reams of paperwork caused by the bureaucracy of government control
healthcare is NOT a right. same-sex marriage is NOT a right. illegal immigration or for that matter legal immigration is NOT a right. abortion is NOT a right. being gay is NOT a right. twisting the very basic human rights to imply any of the above is a self-serving, liberal, universal mindset. this video is weak by propping up a ridiculous strawman argument. The very basic essentials to live is food, water, and clothes. Anything above life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a priv.
Nobody is responsible for the upkeep of your life besides you. That's what liberty is all about. Once you require somebody to take care of another human being, you are infringing on that persons liberty. Remember: it's life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Your 2nd example is flawed because you don't explain that it may cost somebody $500k to push the button.
Humans have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's it. Health Care can't be a right because it is a service someone must provide for you. Nobody has the right to someone's labor. Sure, in a perfect world everyone would get the best healthcare, but it's not a right.
And if I did feel the need to help my fellow man overcome the things that make him ill, I could donate nutritious food to pantries, boycott McDonald's and Coke, or any thing else.
My Right of Life and Liberty shouldn't be reduced in order to for a supposed Right of Health care.
Don't get me wrong though. I think it should be changed, but I don't consider it a Right. If it was to be considered under the Right of Life, then I'd like to have all of the herbs I take instead of medicine included.
Health care isn't a Right. A Right is something you are entitled to. Health care is simply an option. People choose to use it or not. People want it, but don't have it.
To me the real issue, philosophically, is that in making people have someone else's idea of healthcare is taking away from their Liberty- which is another Right.
Also, the idea that because there is pop and fast food doesn't mean that I should pay for another's decision. It's personal responsibility.
Let's give out more handouts. I mean when I go grocery shopping and some woman "buys" 200 dollars worth of groceries on the tax payers bill and loads her goods into a brand new car maybe I should give her a round of applause. I like your vids and respect your opinion but I work hard for my health insurance benefits. When I applied for my job I made sure they had health benefits. People nowadays are lazy and want everything to be given to them.
No one who lives on food stamps is going to be able to afford a new car. In fact, the fact that they had a new car would be reason for the state to revoke their benefits.
If Government grants rights then it can take them away. Careful what you wish for, you might get, then have it taken away. i.e. 'Your too old for this chemo treatment, sorry'.
the reason there is an abundance of food and no one worries is because of market and prices. food is cheap. healthcare isnt because of high regulation and lack of markets
lets go more basic, that argument constitutes a right to food. when you say its a right, that means you have a right to someone elses service/labor which really means involuntary servitude. when it becomes a right, the people involved (doctors, administrators, nurses, janitor, drug co., people who invest, etc) they serve you not by choice but by law.
Your right to life is the freedom from interference. Your murderer analogy is so unrelated.
A murderer violates your right to life because he steals it, he ends it, he makes it cease to exist. He took what was yours (your life) from you.
I do not violate your right to life by not GIVING you something. I am not in debt to you. You have absolutely no right to take what is not yours, i.e. the fruits of my labor. You have the right not to have me interfere with your life, and I have the same.
... I don't see Health Care as a right... but If i have to have money taken out of my paycheck so lil Jimmy who was born with autism gets a nice lil benefit check cause mommy and daddy don't make lotsa money to pay for his doctor visit/scripts; And would probably be better off DEAD as he may never be productive in this lifetime.
Then I think Transsexual people should be offered corrective surgery; as most still will be productive and u know... work after getting it.
If you are honestly trying to analogize me paying for your health care to the line "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," let me give you a quick history lesson.
Those words were first written by Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence. If you know ANYTHING at all about Thomas Jefferson, you would know he abhors the idea of the government taking goods from the people to provide services for others.
i dont have a problem with homosexuals at all... but transgender people kind of upset me because you try to be something you cant physically be... you are genetically a boy not a girl... just saying, i dont hate you i just see you as a person confused about their genetical identity
As far as the button in the room theory, who bears the responsibility for producing such a device?
Will that person be rewarded for their hard work and ingenuity?
Or are they simply "expected" to produce while others take without any recompense?
How can we all be responsible for everyone's health care while only a few are shouldered with the "actual' responsibility of providing it. Its easy to say "we" when in actuality you mean someone else.
I am a nursing student and in m clinical rotations I have seen and cared for many patients that are not covered by insurance. No one is denied health care. It is illegal to deny health care.
Ask an ER nurse and they will tell you that instead of treating emergencies, they spend a good deal of time treating minor ailments.
We don't need health care reform, we need insurance market reform. More competition = greater value.
We have the greatest health care the world has ever known.
Love your vids, I truly do, but health care is not a "right" it is a commodity that must be produced by someone.
If Person A produces said commodity, and Person B reaps the benefit without compensating, then what we have is a transfer of "rights" from one to the other.
On a purely philosophical basis, what did Person A do to be in the debt of Person B?
Because someone exists are they automatically owed something?
The argument that health care is a "right" is antithetical to natural law
I don't mind paying for other people's healthcare. What I do mind is paying for their choices to smoke, drink, take illegal drugs, eat unhealthy foods, avoid all physical activity, and not wear a seatbelt.
And I do pay for other people's heathcare, as anyone does who buys private healthcare insurance. That is how insurance works. The reason it is unaffordable is because many people only buy it when they get sick. Having a "government option" won't change that.
I want to hear you go "on and on and on" about any issue that I agree with you on - and healthcare as a right is certainly one that agree with you about!
I am tired of hearing about how great other countries HC is yet I dont see any of those citizens saying it. I see many of them saying how bad their HC system is and why they come to the USA for HC. The USA has the best HC in the world so why destroy it? My doctor has already said she will NOT take on govt patients and will in fact cut back her patient load under Obamacare to those with private coverage. So HOW DOES THAT HELP? Think about it.
Your vulgarity discredits your comments. If you cant post intelligently and politely then dont post. I also checked on Sweden and your entire population is 9 million which is less than our illegal population, less than NYC metro area and 1/35th our entire US population. Sweden also has one of the highest tax rates in the world. In the USA we have 70% of our people paying no income taxes. Nobody is denied HC in the USA not even illegals.
No YOU miss the point. I do not see people flocking to Sweden for HC do you? They come to the USA due to the USA having the best HC in the world. Btw did you know youtube is a USA corporation? I bet you also depend on USA software and other USA developed systems. I dont know of any contribution of Sweden other than ABBA!
"I am tired of hearing about how great other countries HC is yet I dont see any of those citizens saying it."
87.6 % of Canadians polled said they were satisfied with their single payer system. Also, Tommy Doughlas, the grandfather of Canada's single payer insurance dubbed "Medicare" was awarded by the people as the "Greatest Canadian" to ever live. Of course you'll just deny this with some silly spin.
This whole HC debate is just a diversion from a total take over of the USA by this idiot in the WH. 85% of americans have HC coverage which is more than anytime in history and more than any industrial nation in the world. the other 15% can get FREE HC at various clinics, thru medicare, medicaid, SCHIP, ERs and many hospitals which provide FREE HC to the poor. I have never had a problem with HC nor do I know anyone who has. Dont fall for Obama's BS!
'human rights' don't exist, nor do any other sort of 'rights'. In any breakdown of society (and 'society' always eventually breaks down) it's the strongest, most agressive that survive and the natural 'law of the jungle' takes over.
'Advanced' societies can choose to create 'rights' for it's citizens but the rights are always artificial.
Mandated Social healthcare leads to dependence, irresponsibility and abuse but on balance is perhaps a more pragmatic model than private healthcare.
WHY does Obama say ONCE WE SIGN THIS BILL we will cut WASTE and FRAUD??? why isnt he doing that now??? It doesnt take a bill to cut waste and fraud. GOP asked that an amendment be added PROHIBITING ILLEGALS from getting HC and dems said NO yet they say ILLEGALS will NOT get HC.. which is it?? GOP also asked that a clause that NO ABORTION would be covered - dems say it wont be covered but again wont allow the clause!! Again why not? People need to wake up before its too late.
Good for you, you figured out the Democrats don't want to write a Republican health care bill. I'm sure you were typing in all caps all over conservative sites trying to exhort them to reform health care the past 8 years. Oh wait, I bet you weren't.
I don't necessarily disagree with your argument but it does have a weakness: altruism. Your arguments are basically altruisitic and there are many people who hold altruism to be essentially unethical. Your argument will have no effect on those people.
To address those people, if you are at all interested, you have to find an argument which appeals to their ethic of self-interest.
In that your argument relies on people making the connection between someone else's well-being and their own actions, yes you are making an altruistic argument. From the point of view of one whose ethic is self-interest the gist is, "Why am I responsible for their situations?" Any answer which does not advance the cause of self-interest is altruistic. I am not defending this rationale, I am just stating it as it exists.
My last post is: NO other country is providing HC for NON-CITIZENS like the USA does - estimated 20-30 million illegals are getting HC here - Go to ANY other country and you must BE A CITIZEN to get HC - visitors must pay for HC which is why many buy HC policies for travel outside the USA. We cover MORE ILLEGALS than most countries have people. The USA is now well over 300 milion people.. NO OTHER COUNTRY has that many people and provides national HC at the level we do.
Thats false, france, england, germany all treat foreign visitors for free or very little charge in their national health systems. Really what we need to do to get rid of this illegal immigration problem is abolish the border. If its not illegal to migrate, then there is no longer any illegal alien problem.
@icecoldbath - Respectfully, wouldn't this basically be like saying abolish the walls and the safes at all the banks, make it easier to walk in and take all the money you want, if you abolish the barriers in the banks then there is no longer a bank robbery problem? Making illegal immigration legal isn't going to fix the problems it is causing, it will only make it more caotic.
#6 Allow individuals to join together in groups to buy discounted insurance, #7 Modify Medicaid qualifications for those who CANNOT buy HC and/or are REJECTED by insurance due to pre-existing conditions.. ALL OF THESE IDEAS WERE REJECTED BY DEMOCRATS!! Again this is NOT about HC nor reducing costs of HC -- its about CONTROL OF PEOPLES LIVES and invokin communism and socialism onto the greatest nation on earth.
The GOP laid out GREAT PLANS to deal with HC costs. #1 interstate sales of insurance whereas we have 1000+ insurance plans yet some states only allow fewer than 10, #2 TORT REFORM which proved very effective in states like Texas where insurance costs DROPPED 25% since 2003, #3 CUT WASTE AND FRAUD which alone could cut HC costs 20-30%, #4 TAX CREDITS for individuals to buy HC insurance much like CORPS now ger. #5 CUT OUT ILLEGALS!! they should go HOME!
Face - again you have NO CLUE. I live in TEXAS and our HC costs are much lower than other states which is 1 of many reasons employers relocate to TX. Tort Reform was passed in 2003 resulting in 25+% drop in malpractice insurance costs which in turn means lower HC costs for patients. The GOP cannot present a bill since the GOP is NOT IN CONTROL - again learn how the govt works. Do a little research before you post nonesense.
The biggest problem is that the conservatives view healthcare as a commodity in short supply and they don't wish to share. The truth is, they are correct, it is in short supply. As more people get healthcare, the less there is to go around which does mean lower quality for those who already get healthcare. The cure is to increase the supply as you increase the demand. All current plans only address the demand and all will increase it.
The president's plan is a step in the right direction but it only goes in the right direction, it falls very short of reaching the destination. About 15% of Americans do not have access to healthcare. If they all get healthcare, this will increase the demand by about 18%. To accomidate this increase in demand, healthcare professionals will need to increase their work load (# of hours worked per week) by 18% as well.
To cover the increased workload either they will have to work longer hours or we will need a dramatic increase in the number of people working in the medical profession. Workload is already too heavy to begin with. My dr works m-f 8:30am-6pm and sat 9:00-1:00. Every time I visit him I only see him for 10 minutes. This is very typical. He is not going to work more hours. My gf is an RN and she is already working 72 hours a week and that is very typical
10 minutes is short enough time but 18% means either he will see me only for 8 minutes or he will have to extend his work day m-s by another hour and come in for half a day on Sundays as well. This also means my gf will need to work another 13 hours a week making it 85 hours. You do NOT want your medical professional groggy when they are caring for you!
So if we want to make healthcare universal and we do not want our medical professionals any more over worked than they are the only other solution is to create more medical professionals. Problem is, there is just so many medical schools and just so many slots available. The only thing that will keep from bankrupting the system is to increase the capacity for medical training in this country and dare I say, severely limit the number of non citizens who come here to get their MD then go home.
Shatros is right about HC workers already working EXCESSIVE HOURS and they cant work more. I know several doctors who tell me they may just retire early or downsize their practice to take ONLY private HC insured patients. They do NOT like to handle any govt patients which take excess time and pay very little. If Obamacare passes we will see doctors retiring early further causing rationing of HC.
Of the 15% WHO DONT HAVE HC many are already covered under parent or spousal plan, others are self-insured as many do, and others dont want HC because they are in good health and would be covered if in auto accidents or work accident by other policies. WHY destroy a system that is the best in the world for just a few??? Again this is NOT about HC REFORM its about TAKING CONTROL OF PEOPLES LIVES which is communism and socialism.
Now we find Wilson was RIGHT afterall and Obammy wants to LEGALIZE ILLEGALS SO THEY CAN BE COVERED so he can say HE DIDNT LIE ONCE AGAIN??? This clown is a LIAR EVERYTIME HE SPEAKS.. now they ADMIT the GOP WAS RIGHT AGAIN ABOUT DEMS TAXING HC BENEFITS. so if you have HC now you will pay TAXES, if you dont have HC you will still pay TAXES. This means fewer people will be able to afford HC period. This is NOT ABOUT HC COSTS its about TAKING PEOPLES RIGHTS!
If people believe that health care is a right, then you people must believe that you have a right to someone else's money. It's that simple. Sorry, but I don't want to pay for those who are unwilling to help themselves. I don't want to pay for slackers, freeloaders, people who eat unhealthy, smokers, drug users, and criminals. Why am I a bad guy for saying this?
Cartman - I agree - it is NOT my responsibility to pay for HC for these liberal freeloaders who dont want to pay for their own. As we see with ACORN the liberals are pissing away billions in taxpayer funding on prostitution, tax evasion, bank fraud and what else dont we know about? We have spent TRILLIONS since 1960s on social programs yet they still remain at the bottom of the social ladder. WHY? Its because they dont learn to take care of themselves.
I think perhaps you might have missed my point. I was not making a statement against the concept of universal healthcare which I strongly believe in. I was saying that the way we are going is not going to be enough. What we need is more doctors and other healthcare workers and we need to make the system work more efficiently.
Liberals argue that everyone has the rght to healthcare. Conservatives argue that they do not any more than they have the right to food and shelter. I am not arguing for free healthcare, just for healthcare that even poor people can afford. The 15% of the population that I mentioned is AFTER subracting out those who have access through other means. There are many people who would love to buy health insurance but their employer does not offer it.
Personally, I pay $23 per week for healthcare, I have the best plan my employer offers. I do not want to pay more but as a bachelor, I am well able to pay a little more. I know many people are not. I would have no objection to having a few dollars more taken out if I knew that would pay for those who cannot afford it.
I am very lucky. There was a time that I worked for an employer who did not offer it and the least expensive plan I could find anywhere would cost more than half of my wages and I worked 72 hours a week. My solution was to change jobs. Not everyone is that lucky. Before I did though I sprained my ankle. I had nowhere to go but the emergency room. The bill, for one X-ray and 15 minutes of doctor consultation was $2500. This was 14 years ago. I am sure prices have gone up since.
At that time that $2500 was three months gross wages. I never paid the bill because it was years before I could come up with that kind of money. The hospital wrote it off and my credit was destroyed. The alternative was to move out of my appartment, move under a bridge and lose my job and go beg. Bankruptcy was my only option.
I honestly do not know what it costs the hospital for what they did for me. They didn't do much honesty. And yes they deserved to be paid but This is an example of what is wrong with the system. We need to find a way for people to afford the healthcare in the first place.
another example of what is wrong. Two years ago this month my mother passed away. She had cancer. Had she not had healthcare she would have died 5 years ago. Just one of her many medications costs $250 per pill. In case you missed that part I will say it again, $250 PER PILL! She had to take 3 per day for six months. All together, more than $1,000,000 was spent treating my mother. There is something wrong when treatment for a common disease costs more than most people make in a lifetime.
One last example, someone I know also got cancer. He worked hard all his life to provide for his family. He got cancer three years ago. ten months ago, while in chemo, he was laid off. His cobra ran out 3 months later. Instead of accepting disability which would have meant a 50% reduction in income, he found work elsewhere. But when he sighned up for healthcare he found out they would not pay for his chemo. He has since stopped chemo because they don't give that away.
he didn't have a house to sell and had already used up his 401k and that went fast. There was a fund raiser but that only paid for a fraction of one treatment. Now the cancer has progressed beyond the point of survivability. He is going to die soon and it was preventable. He did everything he could do and did everything right. His cancer could have been cured.
This hits home with me since I now have cancer. I don't even want to think about what that is going to cost. Due to the policy of insurance companies not paying for pre existing conditions, this means that I cannot leave my job ever. If I am laid off, I am a dead man. As I said, they do NOT give away chemo treatment. It should not cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat cancer. And insurance companies should not be able to refuse to pay for treatment.
So yes I am in favor of universal healthcare. But to do it we need more medical professionals and that means expanding the capacity of institutions that train them. We need to find ways to reduce the costs of healthcare down from the ridiculous prices they now charge. We need to prohibit insurance companies from turning people down for any reason.
The basics that people need in order to live are food, water, clothing, shelter and medical care. The first four are within reach of virtually everyone in this country though admittedly not everyone at the same quality and that is fine. but that forth item is out of reach of many. To say that most who do not have healthcare don't really want it reminds me of what Marie Antoinette said when told her people were starving. Remember what happened to her?
Life LIberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Remember those three words? That first one is the one we keep forgetting. It is right there in the constitution. It was written in before we even had a bill of rights. It means that we have the right to live. We as a society DO have a moral obligation to see to it that everyone gets access to healthcare.
I grew up in Canada, and for the last several years have lived in the US. The Canadian system is not perfect, but it is way better than the US. I don't understand the criticism in the US that they don't want the government making the call on what is covered, when insurance companies are doing that right now. It would be smart for the US to have it, because it means a healthier nation as a whole, people working more efficiently, and it would make the US more economically powerful.
You are a stupid fuck, so don't even try to understand the situation. I would rather pay a profit driven corporation than a power hungry government trying to micromanage the lives of individuals.
In UK we've had the Natinal Health Service (NHS) for over fifty years, it was originally devised by a Labour (socialist) government, but has since been embraced by all parties. When it's properly managed and funded it's great, but when it's bad it's awful. It tends to be a moneypit, costing huge sums of taxpayers money. We can opt out and go private if we want to, but still have to pay the taxes.
It's been ages since I watched one of your vids, you are looking and sounding great, girl !! :)
Yeah but that is because Labour(who is not socialist(at least at not Blair and Browns type of policies ) have done some really stupid policies for the NHS and are more and more privatizing some aspects of it and cutting certain aspects of it,
You are so right about 'New Labour', they are nothing like the Labour Party which created the NHS. 'New Labour' simply devised policies to entice the Tory voters who were disheartened by 'sleaze' in the 1990s - does that ring any bells in the 21st century? - unfortunately they tried to run the NHS like a business, but in truth they couldn't run an orgy in a brothel. IMO that is!
The NHS is without doubt, very mismanaged. No wonder I paid for my own SRS/BA and facial in Thailand. I wouldn't trust this lot to produce a Pot Noodle let alone trust them with my surgery.
wow your so pretty you have come a long way can you give me some advice iam having this confusing feelings of becoming a women myslef iam afraid the change i feel like everything is going to change. i feel so unhappy.
I agree that the government should do more as far as health care goes, but maybe for a different reason. I simply don't like the idea of life and death desicions being made by corporate America when the only thing they really care about seems to be making a buck. If they can make money by screwing me over, they'll do that in a second. It's also alot easier to deny coverage for a transsexual to get treatment, too, because of all the hormones we take.
All I can say is that a country with our wealth (?) and quality of life, ought to be able to get the health care issue straightened out. I hate to see so many necessities of life left to the capitalist economy (for profit). We ought to be able to handle this issue, yet it seems that we are doomed with the mess of health care systems we have now. Too bad.
How is it that ILLEGALS come here and GET FREE HC - yet liberals cant??? It seems liberals CANT DO ANYTHING - they cant find jobs, they cant get good wages, they cant pay their bills, IS THERE ANYTHING THEY CAN DO??? 21% of americans identify as liberals -- so why is it 79% of americans can live each day without GOVT takeing care of them. Its time people start taking responsibility for themselves and leave the rest of us alone!!
EVERYONE in the USA has HC -- nobody is denied. We have medicare, medicaid, SCHIP, Free Clinics etc ALL PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS. Those of us who are responsible buy our OWN HC INSURANCE and dont expect the GOVT to take care of us. There are over 1300 HC insurance plans offered in the USA - thats called COMPETITION - but many are restricted from selling outside their states. Should auto, life, home, insurance also be FREE!!! People need to take responsibility for themselves.
The point was, you're saying that if you aren't paying for people to live than you are cause for their murder. Then by your argument you're a murder by not spending all your money on some way to help people in need. :/
Maybe it isn't their fault then it's my responsibility? If that's so then you spending money on your equip to make this video, and to go see movies, and nice clothing, and hormone injections, well that's murder. You could be sending that money to people in Africa to help them survive because you COULD be saving them but you're not.
That's why I don't like either of your arguments. I'm not totally against health care, but I think you're "Philosophy" is not useful.
Guitar, AFRICA is NOT our responsibility. We should not be sending money to AFRICA. African countries are former European colonies so let the EU nations take care of them. We have been sending BILLIONS to AFRICA for decades and the money only goes to rich dictators and to funding radical LW muslim terrorists who continue to kill innocent people. Africa is a huge continent. Let them take responsibility and grow their own food rather than take ours and drive up our prices.
These people are getting sick, which is a natural part of life. A better analogy would be that someone had cancer and you could save them by donating your money that you were gonna use to lets say... see inglorious bastards, but gave it to them to get the treatment they needed. But there are more variables to it than that. How'd they get cancer? Where they smoking a pack an hour? Is it really my responsibility to take care of a person who won't take care of themselves?
You seemed to have missed out on most of the science of the last 100 or so years that shows the environmental conditions brought about by modern life cause most sicknesses.
Watch the SCIENCE channel or DISCOVERY and see how TOXIC and DEADLY the earth was in our past. Periods where life didnt exist and/or was nearly wiped out many times. Volcanoes erupting cause the MOST ENVIROMENTAL DAMAGE by putting millions of tons of highly toxic gases into the atmosphere which kill any living thing for miles around. Those gases dissipate at high altitudes so further out become mostly harmless however they are still in our air affecting us all.
Lets play off of scenario one first. It's a big leap to say you took away "Everything" that's important in his life considering you've never been in a vegetative state you're going off the assumption that it's bad when really we have no idea what's going on spiritually.
Scenario two is even worse because you're saying well "If everyone just helped pay for people's health care then people wouldn't die." but this isn't a bloody drill bit death, most of this stuff is natural or self causing.
lol, your argument is that being in a vegetative state isn't bad! Can I put you in one then? I'm pretty sure most people who are being intellectually honest would disagree with you.
Frankly speaking - and I am not Frank - I would NOT want to be in any vegetative stae. I have been to hospitals and nursing homes more than I would like to admit and its sad to see elderly barely able to live who are kept alive. This is why everyone should have a living will while they are sound mind and body. I have made it clear if I cannot function normally and take care of myself then pull the plug. Take me out back and shoot me :)
the reason the USA has the best HC in the world is due to private sector. Talk to anyone in Canada, UK, AUstralia, Russia, and other socialized HC counries and you will hear horror stories. WHy do you think people come here for HC and americans DONT GO there??? This is NOT about HC - its about Obama taking control of peoples rights. We do NOT need more govt - we need LESS govt. Our deficit this year is 4 times higher than last year. We CANT AFFORD OBAMACARE>
what alot of crap you yanks talk ,I live in Australia have been to the US back in the seventies and I would rather live here sick than in the US, you guys are disillusioning yourselfs, I have had two hips repleced a lung op due to bronchiectasis, and a vein done in my leg also three angiograms due to the lung bleeding and all it cost me was the initual fee to see the specialist and follow up ,hospitalization cost me nothing....so get your facts right..Ray sydney australia
sulray I have been to Australia about 25 times and have many friends from Australia who have told me 1st hand the horrors of the system. While a few people may get treatment there are many who do NOT. Australia also only has 21 million people - thats 15 times LESS than the USA and you do not have 15 million illegals getting FREE HC on your system. Our state of Massachusetts with only 7 million people couldnt make it work so the USA as a whole surely cant.
And we can't afford privatization, either!! Holy crap; have you ever seen "Sicko"?? Everything's about money and liability! Healthcare MUST NOT be completely privatized. Besides, the govt' are fucking hypocrites anyway, as the ruling class always saves the best for themselves, allowing pro athletes to line-jump, while they sell us cigarettes to poison ourselves with so the fuckin' Pharmaceutical industry can make even more cash treating cancer patients.
the GOP has laid out great ideas to improve HC without taking away the HC of 85% of americans. #1. Allow interstate insurance sales, #2 Tort Reform, #3 eliminate waste and fraud, #4 allow people to join groups to buy HC insurance, #5 tax credits to help buy HC insurance, #6 expand medicaid for people, #7 develop a high-risk insurance pool where people can pay say $200 a month and govt subsidizes balance. These are great ideas to solve the problem without socialized medicine.
american's with health care? are u insane? Noooo spend your dollars killing innocent ppl in Afghanistan and Iraq not to mention the 5 million ppl america displaced without even food. (eeek almost forgot New Orleans).
health care for you lol your big brother Canada figured it out long ago.
Encourage your killer troops and families to eat at Mc Donald's every day! this way you will all do the world a huge favor.
Makes sense. No health care needed in the us of a.
Good healthcare is a right, bad healthcare is the worse thing that can happen to an human being.
When "free" healthcare comes to a country it comes with bureaucracy and the systems becomes innefective through the years until the point that making a little change in the system is very hard.
I am not an american, in my country we have free healthcare and it doesn´t work well, until the point that some of the medical interventions are done by private physicians who are paid by the government.
Your logic is flawed. I agree with you that a right to life is synonymous with a right to health. The problem is with your examples. Clearly it is wrong to willfully destroy someone's health, the first example. It is also wrong to destroy someone's health through laziness, the second example. But am I morally obligated to take extreme measures to maintain someone else's health?
Actually, I agree with sturbby insofar as your examples go, and I think what he was trying to say was that preventing serious harm from becoming to someone through a simple act of pushing a button to stop the drillbit is not exactly the same as paying (potentially heavy) taxes to contribute to the HC system.
...However, and having said that, I completely agree that healthcare is a right and it is my personal opinion too that healthcare should be free. It was just the examples you brought up that I was arguing against (you could call it nagging i guess), your principle coincides with mine :)
Btw. I do find your videos very interesting. They're very honest. And I admire that.
:D Aw, but we love listening to you! You're smart, and all that spiffy stuff.
My opinion is that, among other things with reform, reducing the need for insurance would be a pretty spiffy idea. I'm all for cutting costs and reducing waste as well.
Also, if we want a strong nation, we need to have a healthy nation. It'd probably be a better idea to concentrate on getting people healthy food and exercise (preventive stuff), but since everyone is sick now anyway, might as well give health car
Most people avoid these subjects like the metaphorical third rail. You jump right in and work it like a balance beam! I'm with you on the healthcare issue, for the same reason we vaccinate all children and have public sanitation... preserving the health of those who can't (or won't) preserve their own also keeps US safer. We're all connected, and therefore have an indirect interest in the welfare of others. This is less Kant's altrusim than Rand's enlightened self interest. oops out of space :-o
I'm a pretty Hardcore Kantian up until the point he differentiates between actions done in accordance with duty and actions done from duty. The distinction gets in him in so much metaphysical trouble and also creates a lot of unintended consequences which don't jive with many peoples intuitions.
lol, this video made me realize how much I can't wait to get back to school!! I love philosophizing about as much as anything else! You really brought up a lot of great points, most of which I disagree with. If I can be bothered, I might just have to make a video responce (I'll have to figure out how) Or, more likely, a series of responces, as I'm even worse than you are about succinctness. (I checked, and I actually spelled "succint" right on the first try!!!!) Anyway, loved the vid =-)
Awesome concept scenarios, Ashley. How does this philosophical argument color the debate regarding the inclusion of trans-specific healthcare assistance? Where do trans medical concerns fit into this schema? I'd love you to do a video on that next.
Anyone who is still confused about the public option and has questions should visit my profile. I have lots of information and resources in the comment section. :)
You are so interesting to listen to! I love it when you do these kinds of videos.
Also, completely agree with you. If a society is going to support the right to life it has to make sure everyone has access to healthcare so they can sustain that life.
Ashley, is very simple. The status quo (health insurance companies) love what they have because it provides them nice profits year to year. Most Republicans benefit by standing against health care because they have not nothing to offer except to put fear in people. Every civilize country in the world have universal health insurance except the USA, and they spend much less. We need health insurance reform w/ public option. Nice video, and your knew hair cut is very nice :)
Yeah like I said, I was just sticking to the political philosophy level. I wasn't concerned with discussing the particular issues of Obama's halth care reform bill and the insurance companies reaction to it.
You know we spend so much time objectifying one another, I sometimes forget that you're, you know, all smart and stuff. All well reasoned arguments here and I think that, even if both examples were less extreme (paralysis instead of being a vegetable, losing a limb instead of dying) they would still be equally true. Don't expect anything but crazy talk in the comments though because scant few people are interesting in "reason" or "facts" with regard tot his issue. Just big, stinky fear.
dont expect anything intelligent to come about because of Obama and his ilk,, whatever goes thru congress will be health care industry driven,,,,,,the right to life,,,read the book re coercive sterilization,,,,its a good read
I don't care if the 50 million people have health care or not. It is so sad, but they can just die in the streets. Sad but true, go out and get a job that pays for your health care and don't complain when your relatives don't get service because their insurance companies won't pay for their treatment. Please send me some hate mail. ok I don't care if you do or not. Nothing against you Icecoldbath I agree with everything you said in this video.
yeah, you know what I'm sick of paying for, police. If you don't carry a gun and can defend yourself, you can did in the street, sad but true. That 12 year old girl that gets rape on the way to school, yeah fuck her too, she was probably wearing a shot skirt and asking for it. yeah why should i have to pay taxes for to police to keep us safe, keep yourself safe.
(this was taking zekeiel666 argument to the extreme, these are not my real views)
ok. You made your joke. I just believe now that it is every man and woman for themselves. the government should not have to help these people, when they don't want any help from the government from the get go. Look at all these town halls meeting and the only people I see making a fuss is alot of poor people. The government wants to help them out, but they don't want help. Everyone else has good health care and don't care if one else has good health care or another.
but that's the point of the joke we cant just let it be every man and woman for themselves. Yes its a lot of poor people or people portending to be "average Americans" making all the noise. It because they have been lied to and have a mistrust of the government. The solution is not to just give up and hand your health and your money over to the insurance companies, its to expose the lies and work for the betterment of the whole country. that would be productive what you suggest is not.
Add to that that healthy people live longer, work more and commit less crime. Health care isn't only a matter of rights, but a matter of having a well functioning society. If you compare the statistics between countries that argument is pretty much irrefutable. cmstyz, you should look at some comparative stats between the Nordic countries and USA for example.
Your life is a natural occurrence and once born you live and grow. It is the responsibility of each individual to care for themselves
A health care or insurance system should provide a range of services tailored to the needs of each individual. Care should be elective and costs should be consistent
Any program that takes from one to give to another is wrong - especially when the Government establishing the program claims the right to skim fees & taxes, gather personal info, and assume control
But if health care is a right, which I argue in this video, then it is a governments obligation to ensure that right is not violated (i.e. make sure health care is provided to all). Its something we all owe to each other out of prudential reasons when we enter into a contract with that government.
I see it as a personal responsibility and I believe the role of the Government is to ensure that we all have access to fair and effective health care - not to provide it for us
How we choose to care for ourselves within an open and equitable system is up to us. We all know we don't have a fair and equitable system and that the costs are much higher than they need to be, but that doesn't mean health care should become a "right" under Govt. control
but you have no argument for why it isn't a right. All you do is assert it. You might as well be saying "I believe i'm the king of France," just asserting it doesn't make it true. I've given a reason why I think it is a right. That reason is that health is a constituent of life and we can both agree we have a right to life.
Some of us care for plants/animals because it satisfies something within ourselves, but others do not. Should those that care for animals and plants dictate to others that they be required to care for them as well? One could argue that animals/plants are harmed by our dominance and so we should care for them (and I'd agree), but I think my influence over the actions of others should be limited to...
...them not harming animals/plants rather than forcing them to care for them. You might also argue that people are more valuable than plants and animals - to that I would not agree.
You say, "That reason is that health is a constituent of life and we can both agree we have a right to life."
Do you have a right to the life of someone else? Do you have the right to take a portion of their means for survival to make establish your belief that health care is a right? What makes you so special?
What you're choosing to leave out of your philosophy is that calling health care a right and attempting to establish it as a social doctrine removes choice from certain members of society. The Govt. can't just provide health care for all without taking the means to do so from someone else. It also removes the responsibility from individuals and places it on the whole which causes many of the ills we're facing today. Yours is a collectivist belief and I suppose that's where our thoughts diverge.
See you miss the point. I'm not just asserting that health care is a right. I'm giving justification for it. If I can show that it is a right, then any just state MUST protect it. If that state doesn't protect it then that state is not just and its people are not free. And True, I think the "right" to bear arms, and the "right" to put a liquor store on any corner of neighborhood where people of color live causes most of the social ills.
I'm not missing the point because I don't agree with your justification, I just don't agree. Anyone can give justification for anything, but that doesn't make them correct.
We're both basically starting with the notion that health care is a necessity, but you extend that fact to mean that because it's necessary, it is a right.
Do your beliefs justify imposing restrictions on someone or extracting fees from them? What if they don't agree? Is the role of Government to ensure "rightful" controls?
So why don't you give me a reason or two about where my justification goes wrong. Just asserting it is wrong doesn't mean anything. I have no reason to believe you.
Yes, I believe that is fair. You have a right to all the things you need. If someone denies you something necessary to your existence, like your life, or your health, they are wronging you.
Yes. I don't think imposing restrictions is bad when they are justified. Take for example the police force, they are a part of the state imposing restrictions on peoples actions when it comes to stealing and violence. Yes, it is also justified that since we, as a community, benefit from the police, that we as a community should pay. Same with healthcare, we would all benefit, so we should all pay.
If you don't agree with the actions of a just state. You are welcome to leave.
Its the role of the government to ensure that peoples rights are respected and each is given her due. This will inherently cause limitations on peoples actions and financial obligations but all limitations and obligations will be just in a just government, which is what i'm discussing here. Freedom is not the ability to do what one pleases, but the ability to do what one is justified in doing.
Ahh here is where I object. I give an argument in my video against this line of thinking. In the case of human beings not caring is a case of direct harm.
Also. Do you understand why we form states, its in order to ensure that our rights are protected from each other. We all owe each other the right to life, and as I argue for, all owe each other the right to healthcare. If healthcare isn't guranteed as a right, then as we currently we direct harm comes to individuals without any repercussions
I totally agree with you about how it is a right, but I would never support a single payer system no matter how appealing it is. I've warmed up to the idea of a public option because that would cover everyone, but still maintain variety and competition. What I want is for congress to pass the stuff we can all agree on (ex no pre-existing condition discrimination), and take care of the more gooey stuff later...
Excellent video though. Have to ask...are you pro life?
Yea this video is not about particular implementations of health care. All it aims to show is that it is a right, therefore any just state ought to be able to gurantee it for all its citizens.
I'm definitely not pro-life. While the right to life is an important right, it is not primary in all situations.
Do you really want the government dictating how to manage your health? It would really suck for transsexuals if the gov't outlawed treatment for transsexuals. When you cede control to the government, you are allowing for this possibility. Unintended consequences. I want the government as far away from my body as possible.
Your point doesn't address the argument of my video but i'll address it anyway. So how exactly are corporations any better? At least you have elections and voting in the government. Corporations can do what they want once they get large enough.
The current system does not provide treatment for transsexuals. And the consequences of this system seem quite intended to me. But this is just a red herring. The point you should be discussing is that the current system is not sustainable. The dynamic of the system needs to be changed to incentivize health instead of sickness.
How about the companies that are only out for profit(like the insurance people)? Do you really want your health in the hands of someone who is solely interested in money?
See, the government could outlaw transition whether they control healthcare or not. The issue would be if they refused to cover it. But the government already doesn't cover it. So whats the difference? But most insurance companies refuse to cover it. So what would we lose?
The problem is this. Do we have a right to food? Food is more important to life than health care. If we don't have a right to food then we don't have a right to health care.
wilsonsmanz 5 months ago
Oh..... I get it! Women are stupid and shouldn't vote.
CrazyBrah21 5 months ago
Ok... so what you're saying is that if person A exists, they have the right to healthcare. Then it's person B's responsibility to pay for person A's right.
So what does person B get in return? And what is person A's responsibility?
FullMetalTrucker 6 months ago
@icecoldbath You show me in the Constitution where it says that healthcare is a right. No offense, but it doesn't matter what you think, it matters what the Constitution says.
kingcobra5352 6 months ago
where in the U.S. Constitution does it say you "have a right to healthcare" IT DOESN'T...do you know why? Because they understood the ramifiations of government running such a system. Your arguments seem to be solely based on an emotional level without any facts, reasoning or logic. So, just by your existance, I am in your debt? Rights are only granted by your own responsibilities (outside of the constitution). Your right does not constitute my responsibility, unless I have the right to own u
tonyg0123 7 months ago
Where is your blog.
ClintSevilla 8 months ago
here is the bottom line and hear me out. PLEASE do not label me anything. Right wing/left wing/ conservo liberal anything.
NOONE is ENTITLED to the fruits of someone elses labor. If someone ASKS me to help them, i have the choice to help or not. If a person that smokes, is overweight, drinks heavily ASKS me for healthcare, i say no. If im given NO CHOICE to take care of him, thats STEALING. I dont understand why thats so hard to comprehend.
ctnjason 10 months ago
Basically the argument against any government activity is that the more any government does for it's people the more it takes from them. Our country was founded by and for people that were responsible individualists, that wanted as much freedom as possible. Government is a necessary evil we need to keep as small as possible.
GeenaDaniels 1 year ago
PREACH!
livelovepotter 1 year ago
The health bill is not about health CARE. it's about health INSURANCE.
Health insurance is not a right. It is not a privilege. It is a RESPONSIBILITY.
Hospitals should be required to treat people regardless of their ability to pay. That doesn't mean that the person they treated no longer owes them compensation for saving their life. The hospital would go out of business and that will KILL people. People who can afford to help others, should. Be it with extra time, extra money, etc.
CaptainCocaine 1 year ago
@CaptainCocaine (continued) The government shouldn't decide how we help others. They have done a tremendously crappy job of it since FDR's administration. All federal funding of social programs does is take money from charitable social organizations that could use the money MUCH more efficiently, being that many of their workers are volunteers instead of government employees that are entitled to benefits and retirement. Endless reams of paperwork caused by the bureaucracy of government control
CaptainCocaine 1 year ago
healthcare is NOT a right. same-sex marriage is NOT a right. illegal immigration or for that matter legal immigration is NOT a right. abortion is NOT a right. being gay is NOT a right. twisting the very basic human rights to imply any of the above is a self-serving, liberal, universal mindset. this video is weak by propping up a ridiculous strawman argument. The very basic essentials to live is food, water, and clothes. Anything above life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a priv.
Captain7863231 1 year ago
Ashley, I agree with you completely. You should do more philosophical videos.
royceicon 1 year ago
Nobody is responsible for the upkeep of your life besides you. That's what liberty is all about. Once you require somebody to take care of another human being, you are infringing on that persons liberty. Remember: it's life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Your 2nd example is flawed because you don't explain that it may cost somebody $500k to push the button.
Love your hair btw :)
AnAscendingAngel 1 year ago
You are a nigger lover, a liberal and a man.
eggplantface 1 year ago
@eggplantface
And you are clearly a racist, sexist, conservative fucktard.
royceicon 1 year ago
@royceicon Lol no sir you are incorrect. Im a National socialist and im trying to create a master race, and your nigger inferior ass will be killed.
eggplantface 1 year ago
Humans have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's it. Health Care can't be a right because it is a service someone must provide for you. Nobody has the right to someone's labor. Sure, in a perfect world everyone would get the best healthcare, but it's not a right.
helpendthefed 1 year ago
@5:38, what does the schodinger's cat paradox have to do with healthcare?
Just saying, if you are going to make an allegory, do not use a paradox situation.
TR000PA 1 year ago
And if I did feel the need to help my fellow man overcome the things that make him ill, I could donate nutritious food to pantries, boycott McDonald's and Coke, or any thing else.
My Right of Life and Liberty shouldn't be reduced in order to for a supposed Right of Health care.
Don't get me wrong though. I think it should be changed, but I don't consider it a Right. If it was to be considered under the Right of Life, then I'd like to have all of the herbs I take instead of medicine included.
taureanfreak03 1 year ago
Health care isn't a Right. A Right is something you are entitled to. Health care is simply an option. People choose to use it or not. People want it, but don't have it.
To me the real issue, philosophically, is that in making people have someone else's idea of healthcare is taking away from their Liberty- which is another Right.
Also, the idea that because there is pop and fast food doesn't mean that I should pay for another's decision. It's personal responsibility.
taureanfreak03 1 year ago
Let's give out more handouts. I mean when I go grocery shopping and some woman "buys" 200 dollars worth of groceries on the tax payers bill and loads her goods into a brand new car maybe I should give her a round of applause. I like your vids and respect your opinion but I work hard for my health insurance benefits. When I applied for my job I made sure they had health benefits. People nowadays are lazy and want everything to be given to them.
Johnm0819 1 year ago
@Johnm0819
No one who lives on food stamps is going to be able to afford a new car. In fact, the fact that they had a new car would be reason for the state to revoke their benefits.
royceicon 1 year ago
If healthcare is a right, then why should a fine be levied against me if I choose to waive that right?
Guns1inger777 1 year ago
If Government grants rights then it can take them away. Careful what you wish for, you might get, then have it taken away. i.e. 'Your too old for this chemo treatment, sorry'.
wplageman 1 year ago
Isnt food more of a right then healthcare? Why dont we start with free food for all. Then you can move to healthcare.
shaqdaddy11 1 year ago
you have a penis
KarimMezghani 1 year ago 2
So do I. What does that have to do with the topic at hand?
Zorastus 1 year ago
the reason there is an abundance of food and no one worries is because of market and prices. food is cheap. healthcare isnt because of high regulation and lack of markets
nsaneforevr 2 years ago
lets go more basic, that argument constitutes a right to food. when you say its a right, that means you have a right to someone elses service/labor which really means involuntary servitude. when it becomes a right, the people involved (doctors, administrators, nurses, janitor, drug co., people who invest, etc) they serve you not by choice but by law.
nsaneforevr 2 years ago
Health care isn't a right.
And free/public/government Health INSURANCE is definitely NOT a right and has never been.
Ever.
PadraikKasier 2 years ago
Your right to life is the freedom from interference. Your murderer analogy is so unrelated.
A murderer violates your right to life because he steals it, he ends it, he makes it cease to exist. He took what was yours (your life) from you.
I do not violate your right to life by not GIVING you something. I am not in debt to you. You have absolutely no right to take what is not yours, i.e. the fruits of my labor. You have the right not to have me interfere with your life, and I have the same.
TacoEqualsFtw 2 years ago
... I don't see Health Care as a right... but If i have to have money taken out of my paycheck so lil Jimmy who was born with autism gets a nice lil benefit check cause mommy and daddy don't make lotsa money to pay for his doctor visit/scripts; And would probably be better off DEAD as he may never be productive in this lifetime.
Then I think Transsexual people should be offered corrective surgery; as most still will be productive and u know... work after getting it.
TrantisionerMarin 2 years ago
If you are honestly trying to analogize me paying for your health care to the line "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," let me give you a quick history lesson.
Those words were first written by Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence. If you know ANYTHING at all about Thomas Jefferson, you would know he abhors the idea of the government taking goods from the people to provide services for others.
Healthcare is NOT a right.
TacoEqualsFtw 2 years ago
Comment removed
XLNCs 2 years ago
i dont have a problem with homosexuals at all... but transgender people kind of upset me because you try to be something you cant physically be... you are genetically a boy not a girl... just saying, i dont hate you i just see you as a person confused about their genetical identity
commi9 2 years ago
As far as the button in the room theory, who bears the responsibility for producing such a device?
Will that person be rewarded for their hard work and ingenuity?
Or are they simply "expected" to produce while others take without any recompense?
How can we all be responsible for everyone's health care while only a few are shouldered with the "actual' responsibility of providing it. Its easy to say "we" when in actuality you mean someone else.
gtrman2002 2 years ago
I am a nursing student and in m clinical rotations I have seen and cared for many patients that are not covered by insurance. No one is denied health care. It is illegal to deny health care.
Ask an ER nurse and they will tell you that instead of treating emergencies, they spend a good deal of time treating minor ailments.
We don't need health care reform, we need insurance market reform. More competition = greater value.
We have the greatest health care the world has ever known.
gtrman2002 2 years ago
Love your vids, I truly do, but health care is not a "right" it is a commodity that must be produced by someone.
If Person A produces said commodity, and Person B reaps the benefit without compensating, then what we have is a transfer of "rights" from one to the other.
On a purely philosophical basis, what did Person A do to be in the debt of Person B?
Because someone exists are they automatically owed something?
The argument that health care is a "right" is antithetical to natural law
gtrman2002 2 years ago 2
I don't mind paying for other people's healthcare. What I do mind is paying for their choices to smoke, drink, take illegal drugs, eat unhealthy foods, avoid all physical activity, and not wear a seatbelt.
And I do pay for other people's heathcare, as anyone does who buys private healthcare insurance. That is how insurance works. The reason it is unaffordable is because many people only buy it when they get sick. Having a "government option" won't change that.
pigvomit757575 2 years ago 2
I want to hear you go "on and on and on" about any issue that I agree with you on - and healthcare as a right is certainly one that agree with you about!
riverwest1 2 years ago
loved it!
:)
mochi65 2 years ago
I am tired of hearing about how great other countries HC is yet I dont see any of those citizens saying it. I see many of them saying how bad their HC system is and why they come to the USA for HC. The USA has the best HC in the world so why destroy it? My doctor has already said she will NOT take on govt patients and will in fact cut back her patient load under Obamacare to those with private coverage. So HOW DOES THAT HELP? Think about it.
MsChrisCA1 2 years ago
alright.. if you are so fucking deaf
I LOVE IN SWEDEN AND THE HEALTHCARE IS FUCKING SHITBLOWINGLY AWESOME
Its the best, updated and free of charge, suck on that asshole
KarinMikazuki 2 years ago
Your vulgarity discredits your comments. If you cant post intelligently and politely then dont post. I also checked on Sweden and your entire population is 9 million which is less than our illegal population, less than NYC metro area and 1/35th our entire US population. Sweden also has one of the highest tax rates in the world. In the USA we have 70% of our people paying no income taxes. Nobody is denied HC in the USA not even illegals.
MsChrisCA1 2 years ago
*rolleyes*
You missed my entire point and showed your profound ignorance with your response
il leave it up to the peers now, but honestly.. leave the goal post alone
KarinMikazuki 2 years ago
No YOU miss the point. I do not see people flocking to Sweden for HC do you? They come to the USA due to the USA having the best HC in the world. Btw did you know youtube is a USA corporation? I bet you also depend on USA software and other USA developed systems. I dont know of any contribution of Sweden other than ABBA!
MsChrisCA1 2 years ago
"I am tired of hearing about how great other countries HC is yet I dont see any of those citizens saying it."
87.6 % of Canadians polled said they were satisfied with their single payer system. Also, Tommy Doughlas, the grandfather of Canada's single payer insurance dubbed "Medicare" was awarded by the people as the "Greatest Canadian" to ever live. Of course you'll just deny this with some silly spin.
TiradeFaction 2 years ago
This whole HC debate is just a diversion from a total take over of the USA by this idiot in the WH. 85% of americans have HC coverage which is more than anytime in history and more than any industrial nation in the world. the other 15% can get FREE HC at various clinics, thru medicare, medicaid, SCHIP, ERs and many hospitals which provide FREE HC to the poor. I have never had a problem with HC nor do I know anyone who has. Dont fall for Obama's BS!
MsChrisCA1 2 years ago
'human rights' don't exist, nor do any other sort of 'rights'. In any breakdown of society (and 'society' always eventually breaks down) it's the strongest, most agressive that survive and the natural 'law of the jungle' takes over.
'Advanced' societies can choose to create 'rights' for it's citizens but the rights are always artificial.
Mandated Social healthcare leads to dependence, irresponsibility and abuse but on balance is perhaps a more pragmatic model than private healthcare.
mikeyd246 2 years ago
WHY does Obama say ONCE WE SIGN THIS BILL we will cut WASTE and FRAUD??? why isnt he doing that now??? It doesnt take a bill to cut waste and fraud. GOP asked that an amendment be added PROHIBITING ILLEGALS from getting HC and dems said NO yet they say ILLEGALS will NOT get HC.. which is it?? GOP also asked that a clause that NO ABORTION would be covered - dems say it wont be covered but again wont allow the clause!! Again why not? People need to wake up before its too late.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
Good for you, you figured out the Democrats don't want to write a Republican health care bill. I'm sure you were typing in all caps all over conservative sites trying to exhort them to reform health care the past 8 years. Oh wait, I bet you weren't.
FaceForRadio63 2 years ago
Ashley,
I don't necessarily disagree with your argument but it does have a weakness: altruism. Your arguments are basically altruisitic and there are many people who hold altruism to be essentially unethical. Your argument will have no effect on those people.
To address those people, if you are at all interested, you have to find an argument which appeals to their ethic of self-interest.
FaceForRadio63 2 years ago
My argument doesn't require altruism at all, it merely is an analysis of the nature of the right to life.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
In that your argument relies on people making the connection between someone else's well-being and their own actions, yes you are making an altruistic argument. From the point of view of one whose ethic is self-interest the gist is, "Why am I responsible for their situations?" Any answer which does not advance the cause of self-interest is altruistic. I am not defending this rationale, I am just stating it as it exists.
FaceForRadio63 2 years ago
My last post is: NO other country is providing HC for NON-CITIZENS like the USA does - estimated 20-30 million illegals are getting HC here - Go to ANY other country and you must BE A CITIZEN to get HC - visitors must pay for HC which is why many buy HC policies for travel outside the USA. We cover MORE ILLEGALS than most countries have people. The USA is now well over 300 milion people.. NO OTHER COUNTRY has that many people and provides national HC at the level we do.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
Thats false, france, england, germany all treat foreign visitors for free or very little charge in their national health systems. Really what we need to do to get rid of this illegal immigration problem is abolish the border. If its not illegal to migrate, then there is no longer any illegal alien problem.
icecoldbath 2 years ago 2
@icecoldbath - Respectfully, wouldn't this basically be like saying abolish the walls and the safes at all the banks, make it easier to walk in and take all the money you want, if you abolish the barriers in the banks then there is no longer a bank robbery problem? Making illegal immigration legal isn't going to fix the problems it is causing, it will only make it more caotic.
crazykipspsychoward 1 year ago
#6 Allow individuals to join together in groups to buy discounted insurance, #7 Modify Medicaid qualifications for those who CANNOT buy HC and/or are REJECTED by insurance due to pre-existing conditions.. ALL OF THESE IDEAS WERE REJECTED BY DEMOCRATS!! Again this is NOT about HC nor reducing costs of HC -- its about CONTROL OF PEOPLES LIVES and invokin communism and socialism onto the greatest nation on earth.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
The GOP laid out GREAT PLANS to deal with HC costs. #1 interstate sales of insurance whereas we have 1000+ insurance plans yet some states only allow fewer than 10, #2 TORT REFORM which proved very effective in states like Texas where insurance costs DROPPED 25% since 2003, #3 CUT WASTE AND FRAUD which alone could cut HC costs 20-30%, #4 TAX CREDITS for individuals to buy HC insurance much like CORPS now ger. #5 CUT OUT ILLEGALS!! they should go HOME!
Clipper4188 2 years ago
The GOP created a "Solutions Committee" which concluded they were not going to present a plan. Hence, NO GOP PLAN. Great, right?
1. Some states allow virtually no competition. But for most states, if 10 plans doesn't foster competition, why would 100?
2. Texas still has some of the most expensive health care even after tort reform.
3. A tautology. Great if it can work.
4. Part of the Dem. plan.
5. No study has ever demonstrated illegals cost US in HC. Most pay for what they get.
FaceForRadio63 2 years ago
Face - again you have NO CLUE. I live in TEXAS and our HC costs are much lower than other states which is 1 of many reasons employers relocate to TX. Tort Reform was passed in 2003 resulting in 25+% drop in malpractice insurance costs which in turn means lower HC costs for patients. The GOP cannot present a bill since the GOP is NOT IN CONTROL - again learn how the govt works. Do a little research before you post nonesense.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
Now I must apologize to icecoldbath for hijacking her thread like this.
shatros 2 years ago
The biggest problem is that the conservatives view healthcare as a commodity in short supply and they don't wish to share. The truth is, they are correct, it is in short supply. As more people get healthcare, the less there is to go around which does mean lower quality for those who already get healthcare. The cure is to increase the supply as you increase the demand. All current plans only address the demand and all will increase it.
shatros 2 years ago
The president's plan is a step in the right direction but it only goes in the right direction, it falls very short of reaching the destination. About 15% of Americans do not have access to healthcare. If they all get healthcare, this will increase the demand by about 18%. To accomidate this increase in demand, healthcare professionals will need to increase their work load (# of hours worked per week) by 18% as well.
shatros 2 years ago
To cover the increased workload either they will have to work longer hours or we will need a dramatic increase in the number of people working in the medical profession. Workload is already too heavy to begin with. My dr works m-f 8:30am-6pm and sat 9:00-1:00. Every time I visit him I only see him for 10 minutes. This is very typical. He is not going to work more hours. My gf is an RN and she is already working 72 hours a week and that is very typical
shatros 2 years ago
10 minutes is short enough time but 18% means either he will see me only for 8 minutes or he will have to extend his work day m-s by another hour and come in for half a day on Sundays as well. This also means my gf will need to work another 13 hours a week making it 85 hours. You do NOT want your medical professional groggy when they are caring for you!
shatros 2 years ago
So if we want to make healthcare universal and we do not want our medical professionals any more over worked than they are the only other solution is to create more medical professionals. Problem is, there is just so many medical schools and just so many slots available. The only thing that will keep from bankrupting the system is to increase the capacity for medical training in this country and dare I say, severely limit the number of non citizens who come here to get their MD then go home.
shatros 2 years ago
Shatros is right about HC workers already working EXCESSIVE HOURS and they cant work more. I know several doctors who tell me they may just retire early or downsize their practice to take ONLY private HC insured patients. They do NOT like to handle any govt patients which take excess time and pay very little. If Obamacare passes we will see doctors retiring early further causing rationing of HC.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
Of the 15% WHO DONT HAVE HC many are already covered under parent or spousal plan, others are self-insured as many do, and others dont want HC because they are in good health and would be covered if in auto accidents or work accident by other policies. WHY destroy a system that is the best in the world for just a few??? Again this is NOT about HC REFORM its about TAKING CONTROL OF PEOPLES LIVES which is communism and socialism.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
Now we find Wilson was RIGHT afterall and Obammy wants to LEGALIZE ILLEGALS SO THEY CAN BE COVERED so he can say HE DIDNT LIE ONCE AGAIN??? This clown is a LIAR EVERYTIME HE SPEAKS.. now they ADMIT the GOP WAS RIGHT AGAIN ABOUT DEMS TAXING HC BENEFITS. so if you have HC now you will pay TAXES, if you dont have HC you will still pay TAXES. This means fewer people will be able to afford HC period. This is NOT ABOUT HC COSTS its about TAKING PEOPLES RIGHTS!
Clipper4188 2 years ago
you're so cute! ahh
ilhsfm 2 years ago
If people believe that health care is a right, then you people must believe that you have a right to someone else's money. It's that simple. Sorry, but I don't want to pay for those who are unwilling to help themselves. I don't want to pay for slackers, freeloaders, people who eat unhealthy, smokers, drug users, and criminals. Why am I a bad guy for saying this?
cartmanfan0316 2 years ago
Cartman - I agree - it is NOT my responsibility to pay for HC for these liberal freeloaders who dont want to pay for their own. As we see with ACORN the liberals are pissing away billions in taxpayer funding on prostitution, tax evasion, bank fraud and what else dont we know about? We have spent TRILLIONS since 1960s on social programs yet they still remain at the bottom of the social ladder. WHY? Its because they dont learn to take care of themselves.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
I think perhaps you might have missed my point. I was not making a statement against the concept of universal healthcare which I strongly believe in. I was saying that the way we are going is not going to be enough. What we need is more doctors and other healthcare workers and we need to make the system work more efficiently.
shatros 2 years ago
Liberals argue that everyone has the rght to healthcare. Conservatives argue that they do not any more than they have the right to food and shelter. I am not arguing for free healthcare, just for healthcare that even poor people can afford. The 15% of the population that I mentioned is AFTER subracting out those who have access through other means. There are many people who would love to buy health insurance but their employer does not offer it.
shatros 2 years ago
Personally, I pay $23 per week for healthcare, I have the best plan my employer offers. I do not want to pay more but as a bachelor, I am well able to pay a little more. I know many people are not. I would have no objection to having a few dollars more taken out if I knew that would pay for those who cannot afford it.
shatros 2 years ago
I am very lucky. There was a time that I worked for an employer who did not offer it and the least expensive plan I could find anywhere would cost more than half of my wages and I worked 72 hours a week. My solution was to change jobs. Not everyone is that lucky. Before I did though I sprained my ankle. I had nowhere to go but the emergency room. The bill, for one X-ray and 15 minutes of doctor consultation was $2500. This was 14 years ago. I am sure prices have gone up since.
shatros 2 years ago
At that time that $2500 was three months gross wages. I never paid the bill because it was years before I could come up with that kind of money. The hospital wrote it off and my credit was destroyed. The alternative was to move out of my appartment, move under a bridge and lose my job and go beg. Bankruptcy was my only option.
shatros 2 years ago
I honestly do not know what it costs the hospital for what they did for me. They didn't do much honesty. And yes they deserved to be paid but This is an example of what is wrong with the system. We need to find a way for people to afford the healthcare in the first place.
shatros 2 years ago
another example of what is wrong. Two years ago this month my mother passed away. She had cancer. Had she not had healthcare she would have died 5 years ago. Just one of her many medications costs $250 per pill. In case you missed that part I will say it again, $250 PER PILL! She had to take 3 per day for six months. All together, more than $1,000,000 was spent treating my mother. There is something wrong when treatment for a common disease costs more than most people make in a lifetime.
shatros 2 years ago
One last example, someone I know also got cancer. He worked hard all his life to provide for his family. He got cancer three years ago. ten months ago, while in chemo, he was laid off. His cobra ran out 3 months later. Instead of accepting disability which would have meant a 50% reduction in income, he found work elsewhere. But when he sighned up for healthcare he found out they would not pay for his chemo. He has since stopped chemo because they don't give that away.
shatros 2 years ago
he didn't have a house to sell and had already used up his 401k and that went fast. There was a fund raiser but that only paid for a fraction of one treatment. Now the cancer has progressed beyond the point of survivability. He is going to die soon and it was preventable. He did everything he could do and did everything right. His cancer could have been cured.
shatros 2 years ago
This hits home with me since I now have cancer. I don't even want to think about what that is going to cost. Due to the policy of insurance companies not paying for pre existing conditions, this means that I cannot leave my job ever. If I am laid off, I am a dead man. As I said, they do NOT give away chemo treatment. It should not cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat cancer. And insurance companies should not be able to refuse to pay for treatment.
shatros 2 years ago
So yes I am in favor of universal healthcare. But to do it we need more medical professionals and that means expanding the capacity of institutions that train them. We need to find ways to reduce the costs of healthcare down from the ridiculous prices they now charge. We need to prohibit insurance companies from turning people down for any reason.
shatros 2 years ago
The basics that people need in order to live are food, water, clothing, shelter and medical care. The first four are within reach of virtually everyone in this country though admittedly not everyone at the same quality and that is fine. but that forth item is out of reach of many. To say that most who do not have healthcare don't really want it reminds me of what Marie Antoinette said when told her people were starving. Remember what happened to her?
shatros 2 years ago
Life LIberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Remember those three words? That first one is the one we keep forgetting. It is right there in the constitution. It was written in before we even had a bill of rights. It means that we have the right to live. We as a society DO have a moral obligation to see to it that everyone gets access to healthcare.
shatros 2 years ago
I grew up in Canada, and for the last several years have lived in the US. The Canadian system is not perfect, but it is way better than the US. I don't understand the criticism in the US that they don't want the government making the call on what is covered, when insurance companies are doing that right now. It would be smart for the US to have it, because it means a healthier nation as a whole, people working more efficiently, and it would make the US more economically powerful.
zffej 2 years ago
You are a stupid fuck, so don't even try to understand the situation. I would rather pay a profit driven corporation than a power hungry government trying to micromanage the lives of individuals.
zDayAcolyte1 2 years ago
Are you a tranny that likes to be the man still or that likes to be the girl?
seenote0 2 years ago
We have universial healthcare here in Sweden and I would never accpet that any one take to make it private system I would fight it all my might.
All love from me Jasmine
Eopyk 2 years ago
In UK we've had the Natinal Health Service (NHS) for over fifty years, it was originally devised by a Labour (socialist) government, but has since been embraced by all parties. When it's properly managed and funded it's great, but when it's bad it's awful. It tends to be a moneypit, costing huge sums of taxpayers money. We can opt out and go private if we want to, but still have to pay the taxes.
It's been ages since I watched one of your vids, you are looking and sounding great, girl !! :)
Helourob 2 years ago
Yeah but that is because Labour(who is not socialist(at least at not Blair and Browns type of policies ) have done some really stupid policies for the NHS and are more and more privatizing some aspects of it and cutting certain aspects of it,
Eopyk 2 years ago
You are so right about 'New Labour', they are nothing like the Labour Party which created the NHS. 'New Labour' simply devised policies to entice the Tory voters who were disheartened by 'sleaze' in the 1990s - does that ring any bells in the 21st century? - unfortunately they tried to run the NHS like a business, but in truth they couldn't run an orgy in a brothel. IMO that is!
Helourob 2 years ago
Yeah hehe New Labour could havce just call themselves the new alaternative conservative party...
All love from me Jasmine
Eopyk 2 years ago
The NHS is without doubt, very mismanaged. No wonder I paid for my own SRS/BA and facial in Thailand. I wouldn't trust this lot to produce a Pot Noodle let alone trust them with my surgery.
LimitedPassions 2 years ago
wow your so pretty you have come a long way can you give me some advice iam having this confusing feelings of becoming a women myslef iam afraid the change i feel like everything is going to change. i feel so unhappy.
ireallyloveggs 2 years ago
I agree that the government should do more as far as health care goes, but maybe for a different reason. I simply don't like the idea of life and death desicions being made by corporate America when the only thing they really care about seems to be making a buck. If they can make money by screwing me over, they'll do that in a second. It's also alot easier to deny coverage for a transsexual to get treatment, too, because of all the hormones we take.
FindingTara 2 years ago
All I can say is that a country with our wealth (?) and quality of life, ought to be able to get the health care issue straightened out. I hate to see so many necessities of life left to the capitalist economy (for profit). We ought to be able to handle this issue, yet it seems that we are doomed with the mess of health care systems we have now. Too bad.
GenieP 2 years ago
I agree with you. Healthcare is a right.
Even those uninsured still get medical treatment which proves your point.
I could be so poor that I don't even have a cardboard box to my name but if I have heart pain any hospital/doctor must treat me.
The main issue which is causing problems is when you get into areas other then the basic rights of healthcare.
We all have a right to decide on what to do with our lifes and not let others decide our fate.
itspaul70 2 years ago
How is it that ILLEGALS come here and GET FREE HC - yet liberals cant??? It seems liberals CANT DO ANYTHING - they cant find jobs, they cant get good wages, they cant pay their bills, IS THERE ANYTHING THEY CAN DO??? 21% of americans identify as liberals -- so why is it 79% of americans can live each day without GOVT takeing care of them. Its time people start taking responsibility for themselves and leave the rest of us alone!!
Clipper4188 2 years ago
no references... fail.
cooljuno411 2 years ago
EVERYONE in the USA has HC -- nobody is denied. We have medicare, medicaid, SCHIP, Free Clinics etc ALL PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS. Those of us who are responsible buy our OWN HC INSURANCE and dont expect the GOVT to take care of us. There are over 1300 HC insurance plans offered in the USA - thats called COMPETITION - but many are restricted from selling outside their states. Should auto, life, home, insurance also be FREE!!! People need to take responsibility for themselves.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
Great way to put it Clipper. The argument is rarely about how things already are. People are scared of what they feel is money taken from them.
johnesco 2 years ago
The point was, you're saying that if you aren't paying for people to live than you are cause for their murder. Then by your argument you're a murder by not spending all your money on some way to help people in need. :/
GuitarBlair 2 years ago
As always, Very well said Ashley. there are so many aspects of the American healthcare system that you could make a video everyday for years.
Again thank you :)
~ Kelly
coolkelly42 2 years ago
Maybe it isn't their fault then it's my responsibility? If that's so then you spending money on your equip to make this video, and to go see movies, and nice clothing, and hormone injections, well that's murder. You could be sending that money to people in Africa to help them survive because you COULD be saving them but you're not.
That's why I don't like either of your arguments. I'm not totally against health care, but I think you're "Philosophy" is not useful.
GuitarBlair 2 years ago
Wait, your response here is proposing an argument I agree with? hahahahaa.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
Guitar, AFRICA is NOT our responsibility. We should not be sending money to AFRICA. African countries are former European colonies so let the EU nations take care of them. We have been sending BILLIONS to AFRICA for decades and the money only goes to rich dictators and to funding radical LW muslim terrorists who continue to kill innocent people. Africa is a huge continent. Let them take responsibility and grow their own food rather than take ours and drive up our prices.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
These people are getting sick, which is a natural part of life. A better analogy would be that someone had cancer and you could save them by donating your money that you were gonna use to lets say... see inglorious bastards, but gave it to them to get the treatment they needed. But there are more variables to it than that. How'd they get cancer? Where they smoking a pack an hour? Is it really my responsibility to take care of a person who won't take care of themselves?
GuitarBlair 2 years ago
You seemed to have missed out on most of the science of the last 100 or so years that shows the environmental conditions brought about by modern life cause most sicknesses.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
Watch the SCIENCE channel or DISCOVERY and see how TOXIC and DEADLY the earth was in our past. Periods where life didnt exist and/or was nearly wiped out many times. Volcanoes erupting cause the MOST ENVIROMENTAL DAMAGE by putting millions of tons of highly toxic gases into the atmosphere which kill any living thing for miles around. Those gases dissipate at high altitudes so further out become mostly harmless however they are still in our air affecting us all.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
Hah, right. We've caused more slow death and environmental damage to ourselves and our world in the past 150 years than the past 150, 000!
bluecollarcanuck 2 years ago
Lets play off of scenario one first. It's a big leap to say you took away "Everything" that's important in his life considering you've never been in a vegetative state you're going off the assumption that it's bad when really we have no idea what's going on spiritually.
Scenario two is even worse because you're saying well "If everyone just helped pay for people's health care then people wouldn't die." but this isn't a bloody drill bit death, most of this stuff is natural or self causing.
GuitarBlair 2 years ago
lol, your argument is that being in a vegetative state isn't bad! Can I put you in one then? I'm pretty sure most people who are being intellectually honest would disagree with you.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
Frankly speaking - and I am not Frank - I would NOT want to be in any vegetative stae. I have been to hospitals and nursing homes more than I would like to admit and its sad to see elderly barely able to live who are kept alive. This is why everyone should have a living will while they are sound mind and body. I have made it clear if I cannot function normally and take care of myself then pull the plug. Take me out back and shoot me :)
Clipper4188 2 years ago
Thank you for reinforcing my point. :)
icecoldbath 2 years ago
the reason the USA has the best HC in the world is due to private sector. Talk to anyone in Canada, UK, AUstralia, Russia, and other socialized HC counries and you will hear horror stories. WHy do you think people come here for HC and americans DONT GO there??? This is NOT about HC - its about Obama taking control of peoples rights. We do NOT need more govt - we need LESS govt. Our deficit this year is 4 times higher than last year. We CANT AFFORD OBAMACARE>
Clipper4188 2 years ago
what alot of crap you yanks talk ,I live in Australia have been to the US back in the seventies and I would rather live here sick than in the US, you guys are disillusioning yourselfs, I have had two hips repleced a lung op due to bronchiectasis, and a vein done in my leg also three angiograms due to the lung bleeding and all it cost me was the initual fee to see the specialist and follow up ,hospitalization cost me nothing....so get your facts right..Ray sydney australia
sulray 2 years ago
sulray I have been to Australia about 25 times and have many friends from Australia who have told me 1st hand the horrors of the system. While a few people may get treatment there are many who do NOT. Australia also only has 21 million people - thats 15 times LESS than the USA and you do not have 15 million illegals getting FREE HC on your system. Our state of Massachusetts with only 7 million people couldnt make it work so the USA as a whole surely cant.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
And we can't afford privatization, either!! Holy crap; have you ever seen "Sicko"?? Everything's about money and liability! Healthcare MUST NOT be completely privatized. Besides, the govt' are fucking hypocrites anyway, as the ruling class always saves the best for themselves, allowing pro athletes to line-jump, while they sell us cigarettes to poison ourselves with so the fuckin' Pharmaceutical industry can make even more cash treating cancer patients.
bluecollarcanuck 2 years ago
the GOP has laid out great ideas to improve HC without taking away the HC of 85% of americans. #1. Allow interstate insurance sales, #2 Tort Reform, #3 eliminate waste and fraud, #4 allow people to join groups to buy HC insurance, #5 tax credits to help buy HC insurance, #6 expand medicaid for people, #7 develop a high-risk insurance pool where people can pay say $200 a month and govt subsidizes balance. These are great ideas to solve the problem without socialized medicine.
Clipper4188 2 years ago
american's with health care? are u insane? Noooo spend your dollars killing innocent ppl in Afghanistan and Iraq not to mention the 5 million ppl america displaced without even food. (eeek almost forgot New Orleans).
health care for you lol your big brother Canada figured it out long ago.
Encourage your killer troops and families to eat at Mc Donald's every day! this way you will all do the world a huge favor.
Makes sense. No health care needed in the us of a.
Not yet.
xxo
ShakespeareAvenue 2 years ago
Good healthcare is a right, bad healthcare is the worse thing that can happen to an human being.
When "free" healthcare comes to a country it comes with bureaucracy and the systems becomes innefective through the years until the point that making a little change in the system is very hard.
I am not an american, in my country we have free healthcare and it doesn´t work well, until the point that some of the medical interventions are done by private physicians who are paid by the government.
Raudra1983 2 years ago
Your logic is flawed. I agree with you that a right to life is synonymous with a right to health. The problem is with your examples. Clearly it is wrong to willfully destroy someone's health, the first example. It is also wrong to destroy someone's health through laziness, the second example. But am I morally obligated to take extreme measures to maintain someone else's health?
sturbby 2 years ago
Your critique is flawed, establishing health care as a right, would not require people to take extreme measures.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
Actually, I agree with sturbby insofar as your examples go, and I think what he was trying to say was that preventing serious harm from becoming to someone through a simple act of pushing a button to stop the drillbit is not exactly the same as paying (potentially heavy) taxes to contribute to the HC system.
tuhokas 2 years ago
...However, and having said that, I completely agree that healthcare is a right and it is my personal opinion too that healthcare should be free. It was just the examples you brought up that I was arguing against (you could call it nagging i guess), your principle coincides with mine :)
Btw. I do find your videos very interesting. They're very honest. And I admire that.
tuhokas 2 years ago
:D Aw, but we love listening to you! You're smart, and all that spiffy stuff.
My opinion is that, among other things with reform, reducing the need for insurance would be a pretty spiffy idea. I'm all for cutting costs and reducing waste as well.
Also, if we want a strong nation, we need to have a healthy nation. It'd probably be a better idea to concentrate on getting people healthy food and exercise (preventive stuff), but since everyone is sick now anyway, might as well give health car
deusabscondidum 2 years ago
Most people avoid these subjects like the metaphorical third rail. You jump right in and work it like a balance beam! I'm with you on the healthcare issue, for the same reason we vaccinate all children and have public sanitation... preserving the health of those who can't (or won't) preserve their own also keeps US safer. We're all connected, and therefore have an indirect interest in the welfare of others. This is less Kant's altrusim than Rand's enlightened self interest. oops out of space :-o
amginena 2 years ago
I'm a pretty Hardcore Kantian up until the point he differentiates between actions done in accordance with duty and actions done from duty. The distinction gets in him in so much metaphysical trouble and also creates a lot of unintended consequences which don't jive with many peoples intuitions.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
Oh, sorry, the coment I wrote below wasn't actually a responce to csrtitus, I just pressed the wrong button =-/
Overcher 2 years ago
Way to open the can of worms Ashley.........god I hate worms....
csrtitus 2 years ago
lol, this video made me realize how much I can't wait to get back to school!! I love philosophizing about as much as anything else! You really brought up a lot of great points, most of which I disagree with. If I can be bothered, I might just have to make a video responce (I'll have to figure out how) Or, more likely, a series of responces, as I'm even worse than you are about succinctness. (I checked, and I actually spelled "succint" right on the first try!!!!) Anyway, loved the vid =-)
Overcher 2 years ago
Awesome concept scenarios, Ashley. How does this philosophical argument color the debate regarding the inclusion of trans-specific healthcare assistance? Where do trans medical concerns fit into this schema? I'd love you to do a video on that next.
miharakamikazi 2 years ago
Good thoughts expressed here. I like your reasoning. Well done.
BarefootRadio 2 years ago
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Smartassawhip 2 years ago
You are so interesting to listen to! I love it when you do these kinds of videos.
Also, completely agree with you. If a society is going to support the right to life it has to make sure everyone has access to healthcare so they can sustain that life.
reflectingelephants 2 years ago
Ashley, is very simple. The status quo (health insurance companies) love what they have because it provides them nice profits year to year. Most Republicans benefit by standing against health care because they have not nothing to offer except to put fear in people. Every civilize country in the world have universal health insurance except the USA, and they spend much less. We need health insurance reform w/ public option. Nice video, and your knew hair cut is very nice :)
robinsweet 2 years ago
Yeah like I said, I was just sticking to the political philosophy level. I wasn't concerned with discussing the particular issues of Obama's halth care reform bill and the insurance companies reaction to it.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
You know we spend so much time objectifying one another, I sometimes forget that you're, you know, all smart and stuff. All well reasoned arguments here and I think that, even if both examples were less extreme (paralysis instead of being a vegetable, losing a limb instead of dying) they would still be equally true. Don't expect anything but crazy talk in the comments though because scant few people are interesting in "reason" or "facts" with regard tot his issue. Just big, stinky fear.
projectdan 2 years ago
IT´S ALSO A DUTY.
PabloFerroDesign 2 years ago
are you a liberal?
lyriclex 2 years ago
dont expect anything intelligent to come about because of Obama and his ilk,, whatever goes thru congress will be health care industry driven,,,,,,the right to life,,,read the book re coercive sterilization,,,,its a good read
deeryker 2 years ago
I don't care if the 50 million people have health care or not. It is so sad, but they can just die in the streets. Sad but true, go out and get a job that pays for your health care and don't complain when your relatives don't get service because their insurance companies won't pay for their treatment. Please send me some hate mail. ok I don't care if you do or not. Nothing against you Icecoldbath I agree with everything you said in this video.
Zekeiel666 2 years ago
yeah, you know what I'm sick of paying for, police. If you don't carry a gun and can defend yourself, you can did in the street, sad but true. That 12 year old girl that gets rape on the way to school, yeah fuck her too, she was probably wearing a shot skirt and asking for it. yeah why should i have to pay taxes for to police to keep us safe, keep yourself safe.
(this was taking zekeiel666 argument to the extreme, these are not my real views)
fireflygirl246 2 years ago
ok. You made your joke. I just believe now that it is every man and woman for themselves. the government should not have to help these people, when they don't want any help from the government from the get go. Look at all these town halls meeting and the only people I see making a fuss is alot of poor people. The government wants to help them out, but they don't want help. Everyone else has good health care and don't care if one else has good health care or another.
Zekeiel666 2 years ago
but that's the point of the joke we cant just let it be every man and woman for themselves. Yes its a lot of poor people or people portending to be "average Americans" making all the noise. It because they have been lied to and have a mistrust of the government. The solution is not to just give up and hand your health and your money over to the insurance companies, its to expose the lies and work for the betterment of the whole country. that would be productive what you suggest is not.
fireflygirl246 2 years ago
Add to that that healthy people live longer, work more and commit less crime. Health care isn't only a matter of rights, but a matter of having a well functioning society. If you compare the statistics between countries that argument is pretty much irrefutable. cmstyz, you should look at some comparative stats between the Nordic countries and USA for example.
patchissues 2 years ago
Your life is a natural occurrence and once born you live and grow. It is the responsibility of each individual to care for themselves
A health care or insurance system should provide a range of services tailored to the needs of each individual. Care should be elective and costs should be consistent
Any program that takes from one to give to another is wrong - especially when the Government establishing the program claims the right to skim fees & taxes, gather personal info, and assume control
cmstyz 2 years ago
But if health care is a right, which I argue in this video, then it is a governments obligation to ensure that right is not violated (i.e. make sure health care is provided to all). Its something we all owe to each other out of prudential reasons when we enter into a contract with that government.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
I hear you, but I don't agree that it's a right
I see it as a personal responsibility and I believe the role of the Government is to ensure that we all have access to fair and effective health care - not to provide it for us
How we choose to care for ourselves within an open and equitable system is up to us. We all know we don't have a fair and equitable system and that the costs are much higher than they need to be, but that doesn't mean health care should become a "right" under Govt. control
cmstyz 2 years ago
but you have no argument for why it isn't a right. All you do is assert it. You might as well be saying "I believe i'm the king of France," just asserting it doesn't make it true. I've given a reason why I think it is a right. That reason is that health is a constituent of life and we can both agree we have a right to life.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
People require care to survive.
Plants require care to survive.
Animals require care to survive.
Some of us care for plants/animals because it satisfies something within ourselves, but others do not. Should those that care for animals and plants dictate to others that they be required to care for them as well? One could argue that animals/plants are harmed by our dominance and so we should care for them (and I'd agree), but I think my influence over the actions of others should be limited to...
cmstyz 2 years ago
...them not harming animals/plants rather than forcing them to care for them. You might also argue that people are more valuable than plants and animals - to that I would not agree.
You say, "That reason is that health is a constituent of life and we can both agree we have a right to life."
Do you have a right to the life of someone else? Do you have the right to take a portion of their means for survival to make establish your belief that health care is a right? What makes you so special?
cmstyz 2 years ago
What you're choosing to leave out of your philosophy is that calling health care a right and attempting to establish it as a social doctrine removes choice from certain members of society. The Govt. can't just provide health care for all without taking the means to do so from someone else. It also removes the responsibility from individuals and places it on the whole which causes many of the ills we're facing today. Yours is a collectivist belief and I suppose that's where our thoughts diverge.
cmstyz 2 years ago
See you miss the point. I'm not just asserting that health care is a right. I'm giving justification for it. If I can show that it is a right, then any just state MUST protect it. If that state doesn't protect it then that state is not just and its people are not free. And True, I think the "right" to bear arms, and the "right" to put a liquor store on any corner of neighborhood where people of color live causes most of the social ills.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
I'm not missing the point because I don't agree with your justification, I just don't agree. Anyone can give justification for anything, but that doesn't make them correct.
We're both basically starting with the notion that health care is a necessity, but you extend that fact to mean that because it's necessary, it is a right.
Do your beliefs justify imposing restrictions on someone or extracting fees from them? What if they don't agree? Is the role of Government to ensure "rightful" controls?
cmstyz 2 years ago
So why don't you give me a reason or two about where my justification goes wrong. Just asserting it is wrong doesn't mean anything. I have no reason to believe you.
Yes, I believe that is fair. You have a right to all the things you need. If someone denies you something necessary to your existence, like your life, or your health, they are wronging you.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
Yes. I don't think imposing restrictions is bad when they are justified. Take for example the police force, they are a part of the state imposing restrictions on peoples actions when it comes to stealing and violence. Yes, it is also justified that since we, as a community, benefit from the police, that we as a community should pay. Same with healthcare, we would all benefit, so we should all pay.
If you don't agree with the actions of a just state. You are welcome to leave.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
Its the role of the government to ensure that peoples rights are respected and each is given her due. This will inherently cause limitations on peoples actions and financial obligations but all limitations and obligations will be just in a just government, which is what i'm discussing here. Freedom is not the ability to do what one pleases, but the ability to do what one is justified in doing.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
You and I disagree - I'm comfortable with that.
cmstyz 2 years ago
Ahh here is where I object. I give an argument in my video against this line of thinking. In the case of human beings not caring is a case of direct harm.
Also. Do you understand why we form states, its in order to ensure that our rights are protected from each other. We all owe each other the right to life, and as I argue for, all owe each other the right to healthcare. If healthcare isn't guranteed as a right, then as we currently we direct harm comes to individuals without any repercussions
icecoldbath 2 years ago
I totally agree with you about how it is a right, but I would never support a single payer system no matter how appealing it is. I've warmed up to the idea of a public option because that would cover everyone, but still maintain variety and competition. What I want is for congress to pass the stuff we can all agree on (ex no pre-existing condition discrimination), and take care of the more gooey stuff later...
Excellent video though. Have to ask...are you pro life?
omgitsaliv55 2 years ago
Yea this video is not about particular implementations of health care. All it aims to show is that it is a right, therefore any just state ought to be able to gurantee it for all its citizens.
I'm definitely not pro-life. While the right to life is an important right, it is not primary in all situations.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
Do you really want the government dictating how to manage your health? It would really suck for transsexuals if the gov't outlawed treatment for transsexuals. When you cede control to the government, you are allowing for this possibility. Unintended consequences. I want the government as far away from my body as possible.
sorti815 2 years ago
Your point doesn't address the argument of my video but i'll address it anyway. So how exactly are corporations any better? At least you have elections and voting in the government. Corporations can do what they want once they get large enough.
icecoldbath 2 years ago
The current system does not provide treatment for transsexuals. And the consequences of this system seem quite intended to me. But this is just a red herring. The point you should be discussing is that the current system is not sustainable. The dynamic of the system needs to be changed to incentivize health instead of sickness.
shawncg1 2 years ago
How about the companies that are only out for profit(like the insurance people)? Do you really want your health in the hands of someone who is solely interested in money?
See, the government could outlaw transition whether they control healthcare or not. The issue would be if they refused to cover it. But the government already doesn't cover it. So whats the difference? But most insurance companies refuse to cover it. So what would we lose?
radicaledward4000 2 years ago