how were thay supposed to know sam bowie and greg oden would would be washouts. you act like the blazers are stopede lol i mean were they the only people in the world the world that didnt think michael jordan would become the best player in the world.:)
There were other guys they could have taken that would have worked out just as well for their needs. Willis, Turpin, and or Perkins. They passed on all of them. They passed on the best possible player in Micheal to fill a need, which did not work out very well for them. Like I said before most of the time drafting for need rather than talent (notice i did not say potenical) does not work out. The guy is usually harder to get of if he does work as well no matter injuries or what.
considering the fact that the blazers had clyde the glyde drexler, but no center, they needed bowie, but durant shoulda went 1st overall, no doubt, bowie had a good career too!
@upyours537 Bowie had an avg career at best. Compared to the other top 10 picks in the draft that year how good of a career did he have? Hell Kevin Willis went 11th and ended up playing close to 18 yrs and making some all star teams how many did Bowie make it to? Hell he could have been chosen but he wouldn't played because he was hurt again. lol
@atm1919 yeah, but i say who can tell? both lost a lot in their career due to injury, greg is still young tho so i think greg should start getting stronger as soon as hes back, for right now, who knows?
I think the better question should be, "who sucked less"... I don't think the word "better" should be put anywhere near a 20 mile radius of Oden or Bowie. Just statin' the facts.
In Hakeem Olajuwon's book he tells of a trade offer by Portland before the draft. For Ralph Sampson, Portland offered the #2 pick and Clyde Drexler. Houston turned them down cold. In hindsight, the Rockets would have been a dynasty for a decade at least with Jordan, Hakeem, and Drexler if they would have parted with the injury prone Sampson. Ray Patterson was a great GM, but he screwed up that time.
Sucks to be a Portland fan (me). Could've had the greatest player ever, then they could've had one of the greatest players today. Fuuuuuck. Hopefully next time Portland gets a #1 overall pick they won't blow it on a post player.
Jordan became the greatest because he ended up in Chicago and was able to develop his game under that team. There's no telling how his career would have turned out if he went to the Blazers, who were already stacked with scorers and having Jordan there could have ruined their team chemistry and his development as a player.
@lasoogneypubes you must not be a portland fan, we already had two SG's one of which was CLYDE DREXLER, we did not have a center. there are a lot of players that would have been taken earlier if the draft was done today. and at the time MJ wasn't the best.
@jaredleiferman "you must not be a portland fan" umm yeah the first part of my comment said, "Sucks to be a Portland fan (me)".. And aside from that yeah I've heard that they already had Clyde blah blah blah. Just speculating dude you don't need to get all technical on my ass.
@lasoogneypubes the key word is that you HEARD that we had clyde. i grew up watching clyde, if your a new fan don't be ashamed of what the old team did unless you understand the situation.
@jaredleiferman I'm just saying I heard that argument before. I'm not "ashamed" of their decision.. I understand why they did it I just wish they would have picked Jordan. What Blazer's fan doesn't? Is it wrong to speculate? Oh and congratulations you watched TV in the late 80's early 90's.. I'm 21 years old dude if I ever watched Clyde I would have been really young. I've lived in Oregon my entire life by the way in Newport.
@jaredleiferman wait wait... Jordan wasn't the best fit for portland or the best player... I mean he must not have been rated too much lower than Bowie after all he only went 3rd. The other thing is they did already have Mychal Thomson who not a bad center hell he put 18 and 8 that yr and then traded him for Steve johnson yet another bust at center. They do good getting duckworthy, the mistake was allowing him to enter a buffet. One could argue too that later on they should have...
@jaredleiferman again not went out and got ainge when they already had Drazen... The blazers like all teams have made alot of bad moves, and had sabonis came over at any point prior to the injuries he had in Russia nba would have been much different. But don't use portland had 2 many guard bs... you could have traded clyde for paxson for a center if not mj. And its not like cylde or mj couldn't have played SF, I mean had porland had the 3rd pick instead and bowie went the bulls....
It's so easy for people to say "they should have traded this guy or that guy for a center" when you've got all the hindsight in the world to work with. And Bowie wouldn't have gone to Chicago because Rod Thorn openly stated he wasn't a Bowie fan. The Bulls only wanted Olajuwon with Jordan reluctantly as second option. I remember many Chicago fans back then were disappointed they didn't go for a big man. It's not that Portland had too many guards, they already had enough scorers.
@jaranarm Funny thing is... I've heard Thorn say that was because of the injuries and they actually had Perkins a F/C rated right behind MJ. Funny how that works especially since again Perkins could have been a great post for Portland. And why would Chicago fans want a big man at 3? Go Perkins, willis or mel turpin?? I think they had 2 take the best possible player, which is what portland should have done. Then they could have moved some1 for non scoring factor as you described.
Once again you continue to use hindsight in your analysis. If you look at the Portland lineup then there was no room for Jordan since it was already packed with scorers. Choosing the best player in a draft doesn't always mean the team chemistry would work. Nobody knows how great a player would become or how soon they'd be injured. In the newspapers back in 85 they were already justifying the Bowie pick but all those praises were gone when he got injured again.
lol and you keep avoiding the point. As I said Bowie would not have been a top 5 pick, therefore they drafted for a need even with his injuries. Mel Turbin was there, and so was Perkins and Willis both were past and had no serious injuries yet Bowie was selected. And again you made my point for me picking the best player does not mean chemistry however it does give you trading chips correct? Teams will deal with talent but cannot afford to risk injuries. That is why AI kept getting chances....
AI has/had lots of talent and never had a history of injuries. He may not fit into your team but at least he can be on the court. If he is on the court he stock can only go up, If a guy gets hurt how can his trade stock rise? MJs stock dropped when he was hurt in 86 and went up back up quickly because of his talent. Sam Bowie was a 7-0 center which kept him around for a while but he was serviceable starting center at best. You already had that in Mychal Thompson and then in Steve Jones...
I can see the logic behind the Bowie pick... Big men won championships that being said, my point is he was not that much of an improvement over the guys they had at the time. He had a history of injuries and he was not the 2nd best post in the draft at the pick. (even at that time ppl could easily argue that) Despite all of these things Porland still drafted him. That they cannot be excused for.
Portland didn't need Bowie as a post player. They needed a defensive presence in the paint who could dish it to the wingmen. As a plus he was great passer and could shoot occasionally from the perimeter. The Blazers had scorers with no threat in the middle, something they had to consider if you're going against Kareem and the Lakers, the team to beat. When Portland finally passed the first round to meet the Lakers, Kareem said "They wouldn't be here if it weren't for Sam."
@jaranarm Okay let me explain something to you Sam Bowie only played 4 years for the Blazers only 2 of those years did they make the playoffs. 84-85 and 88-89 Neither of which did the Blazers beat the Lakers. In 88-89 the Piston beat the lakers in the finals, and 84-85 the lakers won the championship. So how did Bowie help the Blazers get past the mighty lakers? Also Sam Perkins was a real good passer and a hell of a shooter and even shoot the long ball.
You weren't paying attention. I didn't say the Blazers made it past the Lakers. I said they made it passed the first round to meet the Lakers. Bowie got praise from Kareem for that alone, considering Portland couldn't do it the year before when Thompson was center. However the Lakers eliminated the Blazers.
@jaranarm Give me a break.. A play off series 5 games justifies a number 2 pick. Keep in mind they lost the freaking series. Perkins, Turpin, or Willis could have got them that far. That is like saying Lebradford Smith had 50 against MJ therefore he was a great player. Your a portland fan you keep sticking up for your GM, but it was the wrong move and really you have shown no new arguments I have not heard before. There were other options who were just as good that had the skills he had. deal
Come on, Bowie did great things before getting injured. He made the all-rookie team and second in the league in blocks. Everyone remembers his 21-20 game with L.A. when he dominated Kareem. His 18-13 performance gave the Celtics their only home loss in the 85-86 season. "Jack Ramsay did what he had to do for his team. Sam Bowie was a special player. I never saw a center pass the ball any better than Sam." said Bill Fitch, who first coached Hakeem. The pick made sense at the time.
@jaranarm Please tell me that game came in the playoffs too? Who won the series? So Sam had a couple of Lebradford Smith and Tony Delk moments good for him. Your not helping you case at all man. Also if Bill Fitch said that and your a portland fan why would believe him? Bill Walton was the best passer at center John Wooden had ever seen. Bill Fitch's word or John Wooden... I think I'll believe Wooden. They needed a center, they needed a post yes... But Sam Bowie did not have to be the answer...
@jaranarm Bill Fitch obviously does not know what he is taking about and neither do you. John Wooden always claimed Bill Walton was the best passing center he ever coached. I think I will take Wooden's word over what you and Bill think. Also I'll Sabonis' and Divac's passing to Bowie's any day. Too bad Bowie could not defend or score the ball like Hakeem otherwise he might have been talented enough to be the number 1 or 2 pick.
@jaranarm Tell me this If Bowie had come out a yr earlier or a year later would he have been picked above Sampson or Ewing? No both of those guys had more all around game than he did. Obviously so did Perkins and Willis of his own draft. Hell have you looked at the guys you guys skipped up? Most of them fitting what you wanted a Post that would defend, rebound alter shots, and provide just a little bit of offense. I'll give you a short list.
Once again you are using same old hindsight in your analysis. And stop using hypothetical scenarios, I am talking about what was available for Portland on draft night. Bowie's career averages were never as high as they should have been because of injuries. He was great when healthy. Walton said Sabonis was the greatest passing center. Ramsay wanted a center like Walton who could pass. Anyone who saw Bowie in Kentucky or on the 1980 Olympic team will tell you how good he was.
@jaranarm I am not using hindsight... Actually Micheal Cage makes more sense.... A bad ass who just wanted to rebound, and play defense and you had a center in thompson and later in Jones... So you needed a PF as much as you needed a center. Injuries injuries he was not worth the risk and you guys saw the big red flag with the injuries knew their were talented players and passed them. You struck out deal with it. Oh and im gonna get sum numbers for ya.
@atm1919 Bowie was a better shooter and passer than Ewing, though not as strong as a defender.As for Sampson, he probably was a better passer and at least his equal as a defender, maybe better in some degrees.And probably a better shooter than Sampson.
@jaranarm Sam Perkins at 4th, Otis Thrope 9th, Kevin Willis 11, Micheal Cage 14, (One of the best on the boards of his era btw the clippers had a better draft that Portland what is that saying). Then with the 19th pick portland drafts yet 6-6 guard thompson.
@atm1919 Bowie's numbers against top centers of era are horrible. look up his stats against ewing, or the dude from cleveland... really him and pervis ellison compare very well. And im sure you would say that he was not worth a 1st overall pick, and bowie should not have been a number 2.
Being number 2 pick didn't mean he was the second best player in the draft. He was number 2 because Portland were choosing based on their team's situation. You don't get a player only because of how much he fills up the stat sheet, you consider team chemistry. Why you continue to compare to those other guys makes no sense. You are comparing them years after the draft. Draft picks and trades occur based on need, regardless of what people think.
@atm1919 He always struggled against Ewing. He has had some good games against Abdul-Jabbar, Parish, Malone and Olajuwon (he even dropped 34 points on him). Bowie showed signs of becoming a star in his third season until he broke his leg against Dallas. After that, Bowie had his best years with the Nets but was clearly not the same after that particular injury. Part of why he may have been picked early was due to playing well against NBA players at age 19 during the 1980 Olympic boycott.
Respond to this video...So please don't give me that Sam Bowie helped them get past the lakers and when they did in 89-90 the Blazers started Duckworthy, and Bowie was playing for the Nets. Compare his numbers to the the other guys of 84 draft and he does not compare.
I'm trying to tell you his effectiveness for the team before he got injured. Bowie as a pick just made better sense at the time for the Blazers. There is much more to team chemistry a player contributes than filling up the stat sheet. If you knew the praises he was getting from coaches and players after he was drafted you wouldn't be saying all these things.
Also you made my point for me... Say Portland did take MJ... how far would Bowie have fallen? I mean the Bulls didn't think he was worth a 3rd pick, and dallas didn't need him philly wanted charles so really bowie might have been a 6th pick at best if not for portland being so certain that sam was the missing link. (Obviously he wasn't) I mean you call hindsight, but if you have talent you can trade talent... u cant trade a guy that is hurt all the time, becuz he is worthless.
@jaredleiferman Are you telling me they wouldn't have taken MJ just because they had 2 SG and he obviously he was the most talented pick at 3rd spot other wise the bulls would have passed on him, cuz they had a shooting guard at that time too and still took him. But the blazers just had 2 have a center right? So it would have been the undersized Sam Perkins who went 4th, or Mel Turpin who went 6th, maybe kevin willis who went 11th? They could have made it work, they're scouting wasnt that good.
you cant compare anything right now because greg odens career isnt over yet, in the 2007 draft all gm's said they wouldve take oden with the number 1 pick, a center with skills is more wanted than a shooting guard, shooting guard are plentiful every draft, durant may not be a michael jordan but if you look at the drafted from the 2007 nba draft it is durant who looks like he maybe the only one in that draft thats on his way to a hall of fame career, debate should be asked when oden career done..
Also he didnt just play less minutes he played at a much slower pace. Todays Blazers have at least 10 to 15 less possessions than they did in Bowie's days. If you look at efficiency ratings, and other advanced ratings Oden had Bowie beat soundly. When Oden broke his kneecap he was the best player on the court.
@freakyfatdog Oden had better field goal numbers because most of his shots were dunks. Their FTs are similar. Bowie was a better offensive player than Oden. Bowie's shooting percentage numbers went down because of his detriorating jump shot (from not playing). Bowie and Oden are about even in terms of defense and rebounding. Bowie is a better all around player than Oden. I brought up numbers because you said Oden's numbers were better and that is false.
@freakyfatdog Bowie made the All-Rookie team. Have you seen Bowie have dominant games against Olajuwon, Parish, and Abdul-Jabbar? I have. The one weakness in Bowie's game coming into the league was he was uncomfortable with his back to the basket. Oden wasn't always the best player on the court because Roy is there. Bowie wasn't always the best player on the court because Drexler and Vandeweghe were there. Bowie had more offense in his game than Oden has.
@Mistuhbig Oden was the best player for the Trail Blazers in his last 10 games. He had the best efficiency and win share ratings in on the team after 21 games and they were much better than Bowie's. If you look at per minn ratings and advanced ratings I stand by my claim that Oden was better than Bowie in most statistical categories. His main weakness was foul trouble so his minutes were low. Nelson would put Randolph at Center just to get Oden in foul trouble because nobody could guard him.
@freakyfatdog You stand by ratings but start out with false statements that Oden's numbers are better than Bowie's. I don't get caught up in ratings. The game is played on the court, not in a calculator. There are intangibles. Derek Jeter will never have A-Rod's numbers, but is more of a winner than A-Rod will ever be. When Bowie played, you had more traditional centers. Today, you have skinny 7-foot forwards who don't want to bang (with the exception of a few, like Shaq and D Howard)
The numbers are close except FG%. 60 to 48. Those are better numbers because of the FG% alone. Its espeiaclly true when you consider pace/minutes played. A dominant paint scorer is very valuable. Any coach would take Oden with those numbers. Oden has had some of his best games against top Centers. He had 24 12 against Noah, he out played Duncan when they last met. He played Howard straight with neither guy dominating. I thought he was better than Roy independant of his PER.
@freakyfatdog Field Goal % don't make a player great . Just like you had greats like Kareem, Shaq and Adrian Dantley who had high FG %, you have mediocre players like Bobby Jones, James Donaldson, and Mark West who had high FG%. They weren't dominant paint scorers.. Both Oden and Bowie had stretches when they straight up dominated. Hopefully Oden can stay healthy. Bowie's FG numbers dropped due to injuries and inactivity. Also, Bowie played further away from the basket than Oden.
Kevin Durant will never be Jordan, but he will always be a better scorer than Oden. But Durant will also be a better scorer than Dwight Howard, he's a forward for christ sake. Greg Oden was the right choice. Look at the teams close to winning championships. Orlando and LA. Both have centers that anchor the defense. That's what Greg Oden is suppose to be.
oden is better. he was averaging 18 points and 11 rebounds in the 10 games before he was injured. he averaged 11.2 points and 8.5 rebounds per game in 21 games. he was the most consitent blazer
Oden is the next Sam bowie. Damn the blazers are stupid,a simple cardinal rule,you draft the best player(not need)! i would think Portland would have learned by now after bowie.
MSotelo503,Mychal Thomson was not a bust! What have u been reading. Sure his career stats in total aren't hall of fame material but his first couple of seasons,he was pretty good.LOL....Sam Bowie is the jinx thats still haunting the Blazers.
Answer this was he better than Bird, Bowies number were good too 12pts 8rebounds almost 2blks a game is decent but no where near the stats Jordan had though like Bird.
MSotelo503,those guys that were drafted before Bird weren't bad selections except Rick Robey,who was immediately traded by the pacers.LOL
Thompson was important for the blazers in their title run and played an important role defending against Mchale when he was a laker when he was playing back up to Kareem.What important role has Bowie ever played?Has Bowie ever helped a team to win a title?Mchal did?Did Bowie?
Nah Mychal was a bust your forgetting the real reason why Lakers and Boston won those year Bird and Magic. When Bird was on fire and Magic played okay Celtics won it took Magic to get his A game and not his B game. What about Barkeley numbers are still unbroken but no ring so what makes him?
I don't think Thompson was a bust really because he still had the effort. It's hard to call Bowie a bust because injuries got in the way of his game. Bowie was a better center than Thompson and was Portland's leader in rebounds and blocks. He also got 21 points and 20 rebounds over Kareem in a game against the Lakers as a rookie and was the league's No. 3 shot blocker. Imagine how great he would have become if not for injuries.
jaranarm,ahh yeah he was. Bowie was a huge bust. Nice guy,yes. But having a good attitude doesn't win you rings....Thompson was a better center than Bowie in the nba stat wise.He did something Bowie didn't do.Help his team win a ring.Thompson was injured a lot by the way.
So by your logic anyone who doesn't help their team win a ring is a bust? So where does that put Barkley, Ewing, Miller, etc.? And how about all those players who were true busts that got rings with a championship team? Are they not busts because they helped contribute some stats?
But to say Oden gots no skillls is doubtful because USA scouters got him in the radar. Just wish he was healthy but looks like Durant is the better one in terms of scoring.
I know Sam Bowie's God Son which is funny, and when Oden got drafted I called this to happen. "The Next Sam Bowie". I do hope Oden gets better though...
I don't think the comparisons are fair to neither Oden nor Bowie. For those who saw Bowie as a freshman and sophmore before the injuries began at Kentucky, you thought sky was the limit. Some people forget that Bowie also made the all-rookie team. After Bowie broke his leg again in his 3rd season in '86, he was never the same player (although he had some strong games, including ones against Olajuwon and Parish). Lets give Oden a chance to develop before giving up on him.
The Blazers didn't need Jordan. They already had two shooting guards and needed a center. Olajuwon was taken so they went with Bowie. It was the best decision at the time.
And it's too early for anyone to say how Oden will turn out because he's still young. Give him time to develop his game before making any judgment calls.
jaranarm,they could have gotten Olajuwon had they not done some illegal activity earlier with Hakeem....Common sense rule,DON"T draft injury prone players.Funny portland does it again 20 yrs later.Oden is a bust.The next sam bowie.
Bowie had one injury in college. His senior year his legs were cleared and his team reached the Final Four with no problems. Before draft night he passed every physical given to him and his legs were cleared again. Portland wouldn't have taken him that night if the tests showed signs of any more potential fractures.
jaranarm,that same leg injury kept him out for 2 seasons....leg injuries are no joke,especially for power forwards and Centers....That should have been a great warning sign!....They did it again with Oden...
Well yes it was a warning sign so that's why they put him through hours of physicals before the doctors gave the league the okay for him to be eligible for the draft. Portland wasn't about to give up their chance to get an All-American, Olympian and Final Four finalist without making sure he was healthy enough. And Oden didn't even have a leg injury before he got drafted.
jaranarm,I don't CARE about all those acheivements,he missed 2 years of a leg injury! It doesn't matter how many hours of physicals,its a fucking leg injury! If they were smart they should have drafted Jordan,traded him and get a good center OR kept Mosses Malone.....Oden has a LONG history of injuries HELL EVEN in high school!His stats AREN"T even that great when he's healthy.Both players history are eeerrrrllly similar....Oden is a bust.PERIOD
Having a two year rehab that was over a year prior does not constitute rejecting a selection. If a player is completely healed up and medically sound before draft eligibility then what's there to complain about? And if taking the best player available is true then the Rockets were idiots for taking Olajuwon over Jordan despite taking in Sampson the year before. Since you don't care about achievements I guess the Clippers were idiots for getting Griffin since he had an injury in college too.
@jaranarm,they didn't play for need, the rockets took the best talent at the time.They followed the cardinal rule.He was the obvious choice.He was the safe pick and they knew they were getting something out of him.No way were they losing on that pick. Smart move actually, look at what happened to Sampson later on.Do I blame them for the pick,HELL NO..They got 2 rings with Dream. Portland screwed up big time.
@jaranarm,all I'm saying the talent is there. You have a top 10 draft pick(2nd pick for that matter). Whether they want to admit or not, they knew they got robbed of the greatest player of all time. They should have learned their lesson 23 years ago with MJ. Durant is clearly better than Oden, Durant has more experience.Once again: everyone was thinking to get a big man,& look what happens. Durant is special kid. He was the best player at the time.They look like fools once again.
@jaranarm,well Portland is doomed to repeat history again and again....If he isn't a dominant figure like Dream,Shaq,Ewing than don't draft him.Oden looks just like the rest of the floppers...If he isn't clearly the best talent at the time: DON'T draft him!They aleady had a hard lesson 84....You would think they would take this to heart and avoid.If it takes 7 hours for a physical, thats an indicator my friend.It shouldn't take no more than an hour for a physical.
@jaranarm "In 2005, Sports Illustrated listed Bowie as the biggest draft bust in NBA history, arguing that teams should draft for talent and not need."
how were thay supposed to know sam bowie and greg oden would would be washouts. you act like the blazers are stopede lol i mean were they the only people in the world the world that didnt think michael jordan would become the best player in the world.:)
junglekidjared 2 weeks ago
Sam Bowie! His son, Marcus Bowie, goes to school with me(:
LizziesWorld71 5 months ago
There were other guys they could have taken that would have worked out just as well for their needs. Willis, Turpin, and or Perkins. They passed on all of them. They passed on the best possible player in Micheal to fill a need, which did not work out very well for them. Like I said before most of the time drafting for need rather than talent (notice i did not say potenical) does not work out. The guy is usually harder to get of if he does work as well no matter injuries or what.
atm1919 7 months ago
considering the fact that the blazers had clyde the glyde drexler, but no center, they needed bowie, but durant shoulda went 1st overall, no doubt, bowie had a good career too!
upyours537 7 months ago
@upyours537 Bowie had an avg career at best. Compared to the other top 10 picks in the draft that year how good of a career did he have? Hell Kevin Willis went 11th and ended up playing close to 18 yrs and making some all star teams how many did Bowie make it to? Hell he could have been chosen but he wouldn't played because he was hurt again. lol
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919 yeah, but i say who can tell? both lost a lot in their career due to injury, greg is still young tho so i think greg should start getting stronger as soon as hes back, for right now, who knows?
upyours537 7 months ago
@upyours537 not talking about greg only sam
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919 oh idk then, i think it was some what a bad mive on the blazers but they couldnt have predicted what wouldve happened
upyours537 7 months ago
I think the better question should be, "who sucked less"... I don't think the word "better" should be put anywhere near a 20 mile radius of Oden or Bowie. Just statin' the facts.
trevinboy 8 months ago
neither...
coderedddmusicboxxx 9 months ago
In Hakeem Olajuwon's book he tells of a trade offer by Portland before the draft. For Ralph Sampson, Portland offered the #2 pick and Clyde Drexler. Houston turned them down cold. In hindsight, the Rockets would have been a dynasty for a decade at least with Jordan, Hakeem, and Drexler if they would have parted with the injury prone Sampson. Ray Patterson was a great GM, but he screwed up that time.
riotusa1 10 months ago
Sucks to be a Portland fan (me). Could've had the greatest player ever, then they could've had one of the greatest players today. Fuuuuuck. Hopefully next time Portland gets a #1 overall pick they won't blow it on a post player.
lasoogneypubes 10 months ago
@lasoogneypubes
Jordan became the greatest because he ended up in Chicago and was able to develop his game under that team. There's no telling how his career would have turned out if he went to the Blazers, who were already stacked with scorers and having Jordan there could have ruined their team chemistry and his development as a player.
jaranarm 8 months ago
@lasoogneypubes you must not be a portland fan, we already had two SG's one of which was CLYDE DREXLER, we did not have a center. there are a lot of players that would have been taken earlier if the draft was done today. and at the time MJ wasn't the best.
jaredleiferman 8 months ago
@jaredleiferman "you must not be a portland fan" umm yeah the first part of my comment said, "Sucks to be a Portland fan (me)".. And aside from that yeah I've heard that they already had Clyde blah blah blah. Just speculating dude you don't need to get all technical on my ass.
lasoogneypubes 8 months ago
@lasoogneypubes the key word is that you HEARD that we had clyde. i grew up watching clyde, if your a new fan don't be ashamed of what the old team did unless you understand the situation.
jaredleiferman 8 months ago
@jaredleiferman I'm just saying I heard that argument before. I'm not "ashamed" of their decision.. I understand why they did it I just wish they would have picked Jordan. What Blazer's fan doesn't? Is it wrong to speculate? Oh and congratulations you watched TV in the late 80's early 90's.. I'm 21 years old dude if I ever watched Clyde I would have been really young. I've lived in Oregon my entire life by the way in Newport.
lasoogneypubes 8 months ago
@jaredleiferman wait wait... Jordan wasn't the best fit for portland or the best player... I mean he must not have been rated too much lower than Bowie after all he only went 3rd. The other thing is they did already have Mychal Thomson who not a bad center hell he put 18 and 8 that yr and then traded him for Steve johnson yet another bust at center. They do good getting duckworthy, the mistake was allowing him to enter a buffet. One could argue too that later on they should have...
atm1919 7 months ago
@jaredleiferman again not went out and got ainge when they already had Drazen... The blazers like all teams have made alot of bad moves, and had sabonis came over at any point prior to the injuries he had in Russia nba would have been much different. But don't use portland had 2 many guard bs... you could have traded clyde for paxson for a center if not mj. And its not like cylde or mj couldn't have played SF, I mean had porland had the 3rd pick instead and bowie went the bulls....
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919
It's so easy for people to say "they should have traded this guy or that guy for a center" when you've got all the hindsight in the world to work with. And Bowie wouldn't have gone to Chicago because Rod Thorn openly stated he wasn't a Bowie fan. The Bulls only wanted Olajuwon with Jordan reluctantly as second option. I remember many Chicago fans back then were disappointed they didn't go for a big man. It's not that Portland had too many guards, they already had enough scorers.
jaranarm 7 months ago
@jaranarm Funny thing is... I've heard Thorn say that was because of the injuries and they actually had Perkins a F/C rated right behind MJ. Funny how that works especially since again Perkins could have been a great post for Portland. And why would Chicago fans want a big man at 3? Go Perkins, willis or mel turpin?? I think they had 2 take the best possible player, which is what portland should have done. Then they could have moved some1 for non scoring factor as you described.
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919
Once again you continue to use hindsight in your analysis. If you look at the Portland lineup then there was no room for Jordan since it was already packed with scorers. Choosing the best player in a draft doesn't always mean the team chemistry would work. Nobody knows how great a player would become or how soon they'd be injured. In the newspapers back in 85 they were already justifying the Bowie pick but all those praises were gone when he got injured again.
jaranarm 7 months ago
lol and you keep avoiding the point. As I said Bowie would not have been a top 5 pick, therefore they drafted for a need even with his injuries. Mel Turbin was there, and so was Perkins and Willis both were past and had no serious injuries yet Bowie was selected. And again you made my point for me picking the best player does not mean chemistry however it does give you trading chips correct? Teams will deal with talent but cannot afford to risk injuries. That is why AI kept getting chances....
atm1919 7 months ago
AI has/had lots of talent and never had a history of injuries. He may not fit into your team but at least he can be on the court. If he is on the court he stock can only go up, If a guy gets hurt how can his trade stock rise? MJs stock dropped when he was hurt in 86 and went up back up quickly because of his talent. Sam Bowie was a 7-0 center which kept him around for a while but he was serviceable starting center at best. You already had that in Mychal Thompson and then in Steve Jones...
atm1919 7 months ago
I can see the logic behind the Bowie pick... Big men won championships that being said, my point is he was not that much of an improvement over the guys they had at the time. He had a history of injuries and he was not the 2nd best post in the draft at the pick. (even at that time ppl could easily argue that) Despite all of these things Porland still drafted him. That they cannot be excused for.
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919
Portland didn't need Bowie as a post player. They needed a defensive presence in the paint who could dish it to the wingmen. As a plus he was great passer and could shoot occasionally from the perimeter. The Blazers had scorers with no threat in the middle, something they had to consider if you're going against Kareem and the Lakers, the team to beat. When Portland finally passed the first round to meet the Lakers, Kareem said "They wouldn't be here if it weren't for Sam."
jaranarm 7 months ago
@jaranarm Okay let me explain something to you Sam Bowie only played 4 years for the Blazers only 2 of those years did they make the playoffs. 84-85 and 88-89 Neither of which did the Blazers beat the Lakers. In 88-89 the Piston beat the lakers in the finals, and 84-85 the lakers won the championship. So how did Bowie help the Blazers get past the mighty lakers? Also Sam Perkins was a real good passer and a hell of a shooter and even shoot the long ball.
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919
You weren't paying attention. I didn't say the Blazers made it past the Lakers. I said they made it passed the first round to meet the Lakers. Bowie got praise from Kareem for that alone, considering Portland couldn't do it the year before when Thompson was center. However the Lakers eliminated the Blazers.
jaranarm 7 months ago
@jaranarm Give me a break.. A play off series 5 games justifies a number 2 pick. Keep in mind they lost the freaking series. Perkins, Turpin, or Willis could have got them that far. That is like saying Lebradford Smith had 50 against MJ therefore he was a great player. Your a portland fan you keep sticking up for your GM, but it was the wrong move and really you have shown no new arguments I have not heard before. There were other options who were just as good that had the skills he had. deal
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919
Come on, Bowie did great things before getting injured. He made the all-rookie team and second in the league in blocks. Everyone remembers his 21-20 game with L.A. when he dominated Kareem. His 18-13 performance gave the Celtics their only home loss in the 85-86 season. "Jack Ramsay did what he had to do for his team. Sam Bowie was a special player. I never saw a center pass the ball any better than Sam." said Bill Fitch, who first coached Hakeem. The pick made sense at the time.
jaranarm 7 months ago
@jaranarm Please tell me that game came in the playoffs too? Who won the series? So Sam had a couple of Lebradford Smith and Tony Delk moments good for him. Your not helping you case at all man. Also if Bill Fitch said that and your a portland fan why would believe him? Bill Walton was the best passer at center John Wooden had ever seen. Bill Fitch's word or John Wooden... I think I'll believe Wooden. They needed a center, they needed a post yes... But Sam Bowie did not have to be the answer...
atm1919 7 months ago
@jaranarm Bill Fitch obviously does not know what he is taking about and neither do you. John Wooden always claimed Bill Walton was the best passing center he ever coached. I think I will take Wooden's word over what you and Bill think. Also I'll Sabonis' and Divac's passing to Bowie's any day. Too bad Bowie could not defend or score the ball like Hakeem otherwise he might have been talented enough to be the number 1 or 2 pick.
atm1919 7 months ago
@jaranarm Tell me this If Bowie had come out a yr earlier or a year later would he have been picked above Sampson or Ewing? No both of those guys had more all around game than he did. Obviously so did Perkins and Willis of his own draft. Hell have you looked at the guys you guys skipped up? Most of them fitting what you wanted a Post that would defend, rebound alter shots, and provide just a little bit of offense. I'll give you a short list.
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919
Once again you are using same old hindsight in your analysis. And stop using hypothetical scenarios, I am talking about what was available for Portland on draft night. Bowie's career averages were never as high as they should have been because of injuries. He was great when healthy. Walton said Sabonis was the greatest passing center. Ramsay wanted a center like Walton who could pass. Anyone who saw Bowie in Kentucky or on the 1980 Olympic team will tell you how good he was.
jaranarm 7 months ago
@jaranarm I am not using hindsight... Actually Micheal Cage makes more sense.... A bad ass who just wanted to rebound, and play defense and you had a center in thompson and later in Jones... So you needed a PF as much as you needed a center. Injuries injuries he was not worth the risk and you guys saw the big red flag with the injuries knew their were talented players and passed them. You struck out deal with it. Oh and im gonna get sum numbers for ya.
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919 Bowie was a better shooter and passer than Ewing, though not as strong as a defender.As for Sampson, he probably was a better passer and at least his equal as a defender, maybe better in some degrees.And probably a better shooter than Sampson.
Belburg 6 months ago
@jaranarm Sam Perkins at 4th, Otis Thrope 9th, Kevin Willis 11, Micheal Cage 14, (One of the best on the boards of his era btw the clippers had a better draft that Portland what is that saying). Then with the 19th pick portland drafts yet 6-6 guard thompson.
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919 Bowie's numbers against top centers of era are horrible. look up his stats against ewing, or the dude from cleveland... really him and pervis ellison compare very well. And im sure you would say that he was not worth a 1st overall pick, and bowie should not have been a number 2.
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919
Being number 2 pick didn't mean he was the second best player in the draft. He was number 2 because Portland were choosing based on their team's situation. You don't get a player only because of how much he fills up the stat sheet, you consider team chemistry. Why you continue to compare to those other guys makes no sense. You are comparing them years after the draft. Draft picks and trades occur based on need, regardless of what people think.
jaranarm 7 months ago
@atm1919 He always struggled against Ewing. He has had some good games against Abdul-Jabbar, Parish, Malone and Olajuwon (he even dropped 34 points on him). Bowie showed signs of becoming a star in his third season until he broke his leg against Dallas. After that, Bowie had his best years with the Nets but was clearly not the same after that particular injury. Part of why he may have been picked early was due to playing well against NBA players at age 19 during the 1980 Olympic boycott.
Mistuhbig 2 months ago
Respond to this video...So please don't give me that Sam Bowie helped them get past the lakers and when they did in 89-90 the Blazers started Duckworthy, and Bowie was playing for the Nets. Compare his numbers to the the other guys of 84 draft and he does not compare.
atm1919 7 months ago
@atm1919
I'm trying to tell you his effectiveness for the team before he got injured. Bowie as a pick just made better sense at the time for the Blazers. There is much more to team chemistry a player contributes than filling up the stat sheet. If you knew the praises he was getting from coaches and players after he was drafted you wouldn't be saying all these things.
jaranarm 7 months ago
Also you made my point for me... Say Portland did take MJ... how far would Bowie have fallen? I mean the Bulls didn't think he was worth a 3rd pick, and dallas didn't need him philly wanted charles so really bowie might have been a 6th pick at best if not for portland being so certain that sam was the missing link. (Obviously he wasn't) I mean you call hindsight, but if you have talent you can trade talent... u cant trade a guy that is hurt all the time, becuz he is worthless.
atm1919 7 months ago
@jaredleiferman Are you telling me they wouldn't have taken MJ just because they had 2 SG and he obviously he was the most talented pick at 3rd spot other wise the bulls would have passed on him, cuz they had a shooting guard at that time too and still took him. But the blazers just had 2 have a center right? So it would have been the undersized Sam Perkins who went 4th, or Mel Turpin who went 6th, maybe kevin willis who went 11th? They could have made it work, they're scouting wasnt that good.
atm1919 7 months ago
hahah greg oden still is only like 24 years old. he still has a way to go with his career. dont get comparing yet. he can still be good
Boss11212 1 year ago
durrant or jordan since yall wanna go there lets talk about non flops......*trollface*
lottdominique 1 year ago
you cant compare anything right now because greg odens career isnt over yet, in the 2007 draft all gm's said they wouldve take oden with the number 1 pick, a center with skills is more wanted than a shooting guard, shooting guard are plentiful every draft, durant may not be a michael jordan but if you look at the drafted from the 2007 nba draft it is durant who looks like he maybe the only one in that draft thats on his way to a hall of fame career, debate should be asked when oden career done..
76SouthHammaz 1 year ago
right before his second injury he was starting to look like a beast
ljaradat33 1 year ago
Greg oden BUST!!!!
247Dumbcomments 1 year ago
Oden by far. He was three years younger than Bowie but put better numbers than Bowie in his 2nd year while playing10 less minutes.
freakyfatdog 1 year ago
@freakyfatdog Bowie (1984-85): 29.2 min, 10.0 points, 8.6 boards, 2.7 blocks, and 2.8 assists Bowie (1985-86): 29.8 min, 11.8 points, 8.6 boards, 2.5 blocks, and 2.6 assists
Oden (2008-09): 21.5 min, 8,9 points, 7.0 boards, 1.1 blocks, and 0.5 assists
Oden (2009-10): 23.9 min, 11.1 points, 8..5 boards, 2.3 blocks, and 0.9 assists
Oden did play less minutes than Bowie, but Bowie had better numbers across the board.
Mistuhbig 1 year ago
@Mistuhbig
How about FT% and FG%?
Also he didnt just play less minutes he played at a much slower pace. Todays Blazers have at least 10 to 15 less possessions than they did in Bowie's days. If you look at efficiency ratings, and other advanced ratings Oden had Bowie beat soundly. When Oden broke his kneecap he was the best player on the court.
freakyfatdog 1 year ago
@freakyfatdog Oden had better field goal numbers because most of his shots were dunks. Their FTs are similar. Bowie was a better offensive player than Oden. Bowie's shooting percentage numbers went down because of his detriorating jump shot (from not playing). Bowie and Oden are about even in terms of defense and rebounding. Bowie is a better all around player than Oden. I brought up numbers because you said Oden's numbers were better and that is false.
Mistuhbig 1 year ago
@freakyfatdog Bowie made the All-Rookie team. Have you seen Bowie have dominant games against Olajuwon, Parish, and Abdul-Jabbar? I have. The one weakness in Bowie's game coming into the league was he was uncomfortable with his back to the basket. Oden wasn't always the best player on the court because Roy is there. Bowie wasn't always the best player on the court because Drexler and Vandeweghe were there. Bowie had more offense in his game than Oden has.
Mistuhbig 1 year ago
@Mistuhbig Oden was the best player for the Trail Blazers in his last 10 games. He had the best efficiency and win share ratings in on the team after 21 games and they were much better than Bowie's. If you look at per minn ratings and advanced ratings I stand by my claim that Oden was better than Bowie in most statistical categories. His main weakness was foul trouble so his minutes were low. Nelson would put Randolph at Center just to get Oden in foul trouble because nobody could guard him.
freakyfatdog 1 year ago
@freakyfatdog You stand by ratings but start out with false statements that Oden's numbers are better than Bowie's. I don't get caught up in ratings. The game is played on the court, not in a calculator. There are intangibles. Derek Jeter will never have A-Rod's numbers, but is more of a winner than A-Rod will ever be. When Bowie played, you had more traditional centers. Today, you have skinny 7-foot forwards who don't want to bang (with the exception of a few, like Shaq and D Howard)
Mistuhbig 1 year ago
@Mistuhbig
The numbers are close except FG%. 60 to 48. Those are better numbers because of the FG% alone. Its espeiaclly true when you consider pace/minutes played. A dominant paint scorer is very valuable. Any coach would take Oden with those numbers. Oden has had some of his best games against top Centers. He had 24 12 against Noah, he out played Duncan when they last met. He played Howard straight with neither guy dominating. I thought he was better than Roy independant of his PER.
freakyfatdog 1 year ago
@freakyfatdog Field Goal % don't make a player great . Just like you had greats like Kareem, Shaq and Adrian Dantley who had high FG %, you have mediocre players like Bobby Jones, James Donaldson, and Mark West who had high FG%. They weren't dominant paint scorers.. Both Oden and Bowie had stretches when they straight up dominated. Hopefully Oden can stay healthy. Bowie's FG numbers dropped due to injuries and inactivity. Also, Bowie played further away from the basket than Oden.
Mistuhbig 1 year ago
Kevin Durant will never be Jordan, but he will always be a better scorer than Oden. But Durant will also be a better scorer than Dwight Howard, he's a forward for christ sake. Greg Oden was the right choice. Look at the teams close to winning championships. Orlando and LA. Both have centers that anchor the defense. That's what Greg Oden is suppose to be.
MisterBinx 1 year ago
what team makes the dumbest choices in the nba??????
Jillacam 1 year ago
Is sam bowie black half black?
Limatsdaddy07 1 year ago
@Limatsdaddy07 huh? sam bowie was filipino... he's brown hihihi
aceman42 1 year ago
Lebanese
freakyfatdog 1 year ago
oden is better. he was averaging 18 points and 11 rebounds in the 10 games before he was injured. he averaged 11.2 points and 8.5 rebounds per game in 21 games. he was the most consitent blazer
goviks37 2 years ago
Oden is the next Sam bowie. Damn the blazers are stupid,a simple cardinal rule,you draft the best player(not need)! i would think Portland would have learned by now after bowie.
EmperorJBO 2 years ago
AMEN emperor. I'm an okc fan. thank god my team didn't get Oden. our team would SUCK
dddevin69 2 years ago
@EmperorJBO Before Bowie it was Mychal Thompson over Larry Bird.
MSotelo503 1 year ago
MSotelo503,Mychal Thomson was not a bust! What have u been reading. Sure his career stats in total aren't hall of fame material but his first couple of seasons,he was pretty good.LOL....Sam Bowie is the jinx thats still haunting the Blazers.
EmperorJBO 1 year ago
Answer this was he better than Bird, Bowies number were good too 12pts 8rebounds almost 2blks a game is decent but no where near the stats Jordan had though like Bird.
MSotelo503 1 year ago
MSotelo503, Since Bowie was obviously a bust. Is Hakeem Olajuwon a bust because Michael Jordan had better stats than him?
EmperorJBO 1 year ago
Dude you serious Akeem is a hall of famers 20plus and 10plus makes any team better.
MSotelo503 1 year ago
MSotelo503,those guys that were drafted before Bird weren't bad selections except Rick Robey,who was immediately traded by the pacers.LOL
Thompson was important for the blazers in their title run and played an important role defending against Mchale when he was a laker when he was playing back up to Kareem.What important role has Bowie ever played?Has Bowie ever helped a team to win a title?Mchal did?Did Bowie?
EmperorJBO 1 year ago
Nah Mychal was a bust your forgetting the real reason why Lakers and Boston won those year Bird and Magic. When Bird was on fire and Magic played okay Celtics won it took Magic to get his A game and not his B game. What about Barkeley numbers are still unbroken but no ring so what makes him?
MSotelo503 1 year ago
I don't think Thompson was a bust really because he still had the effort. It's hard to call Bowie a bust because injuries got in the way of his game. Bowie was a better center than Thompson and was Portland's leader in rebounds and blocks. He also got 21 points and 20 rebounds over Kareem in a game against the Lakers as a rookie and was the league's No. 3 shot blocker. Imagine how great he would have become if not for injuries.
jaranarm 1 year ago
jaranarm,ahh yeah he was. Bowie was a huge bust. Nice guy,yes. But having a good attitude doesn't win you rings....Thompson was a better center than Bowie in the nba stat wise.He did something Bowie didn't do.Help his team win a ring.Thompson was injured a lot by the way.
EmperorJBO 1 year ago
So by your logic anyone who doesn't help their team win a ring is a bust? So where does that put Barkley, Ewing, Miller, etc.? And how about all those players who were true busts that got rings with a championship team? Are they not busts because they helped contribute some stats?
jaranarm 1 year ago
But to say Oden gots no skillls is doubtful because USA scouters got him in the radar. Just wish he was healthy but looks like Durant is the better one in terms of scoring.
MSotelo503 1 year ago
The Blazers did make the worst draft pick in history, but it was not Bowie. It was LaRue Martin
riotusa1 2 years ago
I know Sam Bowie's God Son which is funny, and when Oden got drafted I called this to happen. "The Next Sam Bowie". I do hope Oden gets better though...
J2theNard 2 years ago
I don't think the comparisons are fair to neither Oden nor Bowie. For those who saw Bowie as a freshman and sophmore before the injuries began at Kentucky, you thought sky was the limit. Some people forget that Bowie also made the all-rookie team. After Bowie broke his leg again in his 3rd season in '86, he was never the same player (although he had some strong games, including ones against Olajuwon and Parish). Lets give Oden a chance to develop before giving up on him.
Mistuhbig 2 years ago
the title sud be " whos worse"
slipknoterman 2 years ago
Sam Bowie is better.Right now, Oden has the strong defensive game.Bowie could play on both sides of the floor.
Belburg 2 years ago
The Blazers didn't need Jordan. They already had two shooting guards and needed a center. Olajuwon was taken so they went with Bowie. It was the best decision at the time.
And it's too early for anyone to say how Oden will turn out because he's still young. Give him time to develop his game before making any judgment calls.
jaranarm 2 years ago 9
jaranarm,they could have gotten Olajuwon had they not done some illegal activity earlier with Hakeem....Common sense rule,DON"T draft injury prone players.Funny portland does it again 20 yrs later.Oden is a bust.The next sam bowie.
EmperorJBO 2 years ago
Bowie had one injury in college. His senior year his legs were cleared and his team reached the Final Four with no problems. Before draft night he passed every physical given to him and his legs were cleared again. Portland wouldn't have taken him that night if the tests showed signs of any more potential fractures.
jaranarm 2 years ago
jaranarm,that same leg injury kept him out for 2 seasons....leg injuries are no joke,especially for power forwards and Centers....That should have been a great warning sign!....They did it again with Oden...
EmperorJBO 2 years ago
Well yes it was a warning sign so that's why they put him through hours of physicals before the doctors gave the league the okay for him to be eligible for the draft. Portland wasn't about to give up their chance to get an All-American, Olympian and Final Four finalist without making sure he was healthy enough. And Oden didn't even have a leg injury before he got drafted.
jaranarm 2 years ago
jaranarm,I don't CARE about all those acheivements,he missed 2 years of a leg injury! It doesn't matter how many hours of physicals,its a fucking leg injury! If they were smart they should have drafted Jordan,traded him and get a good center OR kept Mosses Malone.....Oden has a LONG history of injuries HELL EVEN in high school!His stats AREN"T even that great when he's healthy.Both players history are eeerrrrllly similar....Oden is a bust.PERIOD
EmperorJBO 2 years ago
Having a two year rehab that was over a year prior does not constitute rejecting a selection. If a player is completely healed up and medically sound before draft eligibility then what's there to complain about? And if taking the best player available is true then the Rockets were idiots for taking Olajuwon over Jordan despite taking in Sampson the year before. Since you don't care about achievements I guess the Clippers were idiots for getting Griffin since he had an injury in college too.
jaranarm 2 years ago 5
@jaranarm jordan wasnt available when the clippers selected griffin so that point isn't legitimate.
Boss11212 1 year ago
@Boss11212
What the hell are you talking about?
jaranarm 1 year ago
@jaranarm,they didn't play for need, the rockets took the best talent at the time.They followed the cardinal rule.He was the obvious choice.He was the safe pick and they knew they were getting something out of him.No way were they losing on that pick. Smart move actually, look at what happened to Sampson later on.Do I blame them for the pick,HELL NO..They got 2 rings with Dream. Portland screwed up big time.
EmperorJBO 5 months ago
@EmperorJBO
Sure it's easy to say all that now because it happened. Hindsight once again.
jaranarm 5 months ago
@jaranarm,all I'm saying the talent is there. You have a top 10 draft pick(2nd pick for that matter). Whether they want to admit or not, they knew they got robbed of the greatest player of all time. They should have learned their lesson 23 years ago with MJ. Durant is clearly better than Oden, Durant has more experience.Once again: everyone was thinking to get a big man,& look what happens. Durant is special kid. He was the best player at the time.They look like fools once again.
EmperorJBO 5 months ago
@jaranarm,well Portland is doomed to repeat history again and again....If he isn't a dominant figure like Dream,Shaq,Ewing than don't draft him.Oden looks just like the rest of the floppers...If he isn't clearly the best talent at the time: DON'T draft him!They aleady had a hard lesson 84....You would think they would take this to heart and avoid.If it takes 7 hours for a physical, thats an indicator my friend.It shouldn't take no more than an hour for a physical.
EmperorJBO 5 months ago
@jaranarm THEY HAD THE NUMBER 1 PICK, HOUSTON PICKED OLAJUWON SECOND!!!!!!!
mopep7 1 year ago
@mopep7 What are you talking about?
jaranarm 1 year ago
@mopep7 umm no, it was Houston, Portland, then Chicago
CalebBozeman 1 year ago
@jaranarm "In 2005, Sports Illustrated listed Bowie as the biggest draft bust in NBA history, arguing that teams should draft for talent and not need."
Boss11212 1 year ago
@jaranarm they still could have picked barkley
samtheman7975 7 months ago
@jaranarm they still could've drafted barkley
derichard10 5 months ago
Oden, he has more potential to get better. He will come through big for the Blazers
deviouskrew 2 years ago