If that is true then; that would make the bible not the inspired word of god; 2 Timothy 3:16; but the inspired word of man.Brother this kind of talk will make a weak brother or sister fall; and a sinner will laugh at us christians because we're following false doctrine. We christians need to stop trying to find greek meanings of words and names; and just show the world what faith is. An believe what God gave us.I love ur spirit man and I hope u love mine. Brotherfrank62.
@brotherfrank62 No, this says nothing against the Bible being the "inspired" word of God. We cannot ignore the fact that God gave us Scripture originally in Hebrew and Greek. That leads to foolishness and false doctrine quicker than anything else. Notice carefully what 2 Tim. 3:16 says and does not say. It does not say all TRANSLATIONS of Scripture are "inspired" or more accurately, "God-breathed." Why? Because such a statement would be a lie...
@brotherfrank62 ...A perfect example would be the Watchtower "New World" translation of "Jehovah's Witnesses," which is distorted to fit Watchtower doctrine. It is not a thoroughly and truly "God-breathed" translation, and where it deviates from the original it is not of God. So we need to study beyond the surface of the English by the very nature of how God produced it.
@CRoadwarrior The bottom line is; this kind of talk will make weak people fall; and sinners want believe that any of the word of God is real.I don't think God would want us christians talking like that. because its not positive. it sounds like a trick of the devil. :(
@brotherfrank62 Weak people need to be made strong. And you don't get strong by being given false hope and false information about the Bible. There are atheists who know that the Bible was given originally in Hebrew and Greek and what that means. So it is not wise for Christians to be ignorant of these things. The real trick of the devil is to keep us ignorant of the truth.
Then who knows what the real meaning is of the bible? Perhaps all is inacuratly translated of maybey half. Only the parts that make sense to belivers is accurate right?
[2/2] Also, in your diligent studying, pls note that the word study is mentioned only 3 times in the Bible. Only one time it means actually study [Ecc 12:12]. Study as mentioned in 2 Tim 2:15 is speaking of making haste to be approved of God. Held a 4.0 in Divinity School before I left realizing that 'that knowledge' wasn't necessarily Godly knowledge. The Bible says the Spirit guides to truth, so while we must study...it should be 2ndary to prayer...as pray is mentioned 313 time in the Bible.
@alchemistickolaj The fact that the word "study" only appears 3 times does not take away from the importance of diligent study and meditation on God's word. And I am not impressed with your "Divinity School" GPA, especially when the fact is that all schools are not created equal. There are good schools and bad ones, and it appears you attended a bad one, or you did not have the Spirit. Prayer is important, but prayer without study leads to nonsense....
@alchemistickolaj ...as Scripture plainly says that heaven and earth will pass away but not God's word. So God's word and study of it is primary and will last according to God Himself, no matter how many times "pray" is mentioned.
[1/2] @CRoad - That I don't deny Sir. But how much studying did you have to do to clearly understand the requirements for a Bishop? Yes, women were very relevant in Scripture but somehow everyone seems to fail at quoting a precise verse that depicts women preaching in the full assembly. All I need is one verse. Women witnessed, prophesied [which is fore OR forth telling], they held political authority, and they worked along with men and/or their husbands in private settings to teach...
@alchemistickolaj Those "requirements" do not overtly exclude women, as the passage does not say "women cannot be bishops." People eisegete that into the text, but that is NOT what is says. If men and women were called by God to be prophets, and both fore and forth told, it is clear God can use women in that capacity.
[2/2]...God would require you or anyone else to go through all that, 2,000 years later, to find out something He'd ordained from the beginning? Doesn't make sense that He'd require us to work and think so hard to "discover" something that should be plain & clear. If we make it a sexist thing...sure there'll be conflict but realizing that God clearly allows women to rear other women and children shows us that they actually already have authority to minister to the larger portion of the church!
@alchemistickolaj God requires us to study and be diligent at it. God does more than just allow women to rear children and other women. That much is clear from the whole of Scripture.
[1/2] @CRoad. That's not exactly what I was referring to. You made a distinction between female "preachers" and "pastors" @ 1:38-1:44 as if to imply that they could preach but perhaps they aren't necessarily called to Pastor. In regard to the Bible clearly saying "hey lady, don't preach"...of course not but on the same token it doesn't say Gospel of Mary or Apostle Keisha either. [I know about Junia too, which is sketchy amongst many scholars]. Thx for your research, but do you really think...
@alchemistickolaj I made the distinction between "preachers" and "pastors" because I am still in the process of studying the head pastor issue. While there is no "Gospel of Mary" there is Esther and Ruth, both books of the Bible focusing on women and their roles in the plan of God. The point is, we need to do better research and not just accept the claims people make from English translations only.
@Croadwarrior - Within the first 2 minutes of your vid I was struck with a question which may've already been asked in this thread but anyhow; how could someone justly allow a woman to preach and at the same time contain her from elevation to Pastor? Without getting into the typical Scriptural arguments or going super-deep theologically, that principle alone makes no sense to me. As that woman matures in 'her position', she'll inevitably reason she's grown out of such a position.
@alchemistickolaj There is no Scripture forbidding women from preaching. That much is clear. And we have several examples in Scripture of women giving forth God's word and being used by God. My point is that we need to be more careful as we attempt to interpret Scripture by taking into account the original languages and context. My question is, where is the Scripture which clearly says "women cannot be pastors"?
@rkfromchi No one is hiding anywhere. Some people don't know the meaning of the words "civil discourse," and so I screen comments because I have a responsibility to the youth that may view my channel. What "rebuttal" are you referring to? I see nothing remotely close to a rebuttal.
The funny part about this video is the fact that more people opinions about translations were quoted than actual scriptures that state a woman can preside as the head of a congregation. Also, when Christ returns to setup his kingdom on Earth, he is going to re-institute the Levitical priesthood just as he did with Moses & Aaron with only males. Oh wait, Christ only picked 12 males apostles? Yes, Jesus Christ the same today, yesterday, & forever my friend.
@rkfromchi Funnier is how people tend to ignore basic facts. Fact 1: No Scripture says women in general cannot preach OR preside over a congregation. Fact 2: No Scripture forbids unambiguously forbids women in general to preach or teach. Jesus is going to "re-institute" the old, dead Levite priesthood?? Really? No Scripture says that, and if you find one it's been grossly misinterpreted. Jesus sacrifice on the cross negates that priesthood according to Hebrews...
@rkfromchi ....And as for the old and weak argument about Jesus picking 12 males, you and others who use this fallacious argument forget that they were ALSO all Jewish males. Are you going to argue that ministry should only be done by Jews? Nonsense. And, to take it further, He ALSO picked a traitor, a devil, in Judas Iscariot. So must we also pick devils to do ministry with us just as Jesus did? Again I say...nonsense.
I don't think this video made your point...I was trying to go with you, but your translation to conclusion didn't do it for me.
How about this, find me a woman who is the husband of one wife (1 Tim 3:2). That woman can, without question, be my pastor.
On a serious note, context is everything, and from all I've studied, I don't beleive women should pastor. Instead of men and woman fighting for the pulpit - how about feed the hungry, loving your enemy, caring for the widows and orphans.
@kimcrediblelove Well, if you had seen the entire series and studied this topic as deeply, perhaps your view would be different. 1 Tim. 3:2 does not invalidate a female pastor, since you assume like most that Paul was excluding them in the passage. That's a non sequitur fallacy. Paul never said "women cannot be pastors." That is a fact. There were female prophets in both Testaments, and part of that "job" was speaking what God said, just like a pastor.
@kimcrediblelove The fact remains, however, that this series is NOT about women being pastors. It's about women preachers. The pastor issue is a separate one and will be addressed at another time.
Why does a numerical digit have to be assigned to the word "wife"
The husband of ONE WIFE.
This ONLY means that the MEN who practiced polygamy could NOT be an elder. The elders could only have ONE wife.
Seeing as WOMEN could not practice polandry, there was NO need to say the wife of ONE husband. (the word BISHOP is never used as proper translation in the bible). side note. Paul did not author 1 Tim .
I have read on more than one site the discrepencies and theories of the epistles. Perhaps a more prominant place is religioustolerance org. Just look up Pauls epistles. Morton etc. scholars, conservatives and liberals have a general concensus as to 7 epistles being Pauls and the otheres in question.
No one personally "told me" these things. They are easily searched out on the internet.
@coolwater55 Sorry to tell you this, but everything on the Net is not credible. And the site "Religioustolerance" is one of the most unreliable and biased ones out there. Your research is flawed at best.
Yes, the internet has many sources and credibility can be suspect. Religious tolerance is only one site. I do not have time to look up all the places I have seen this over time. Although wikpedia is not a credible authority for University work, It can provide quick bibliography of sources. ie, if you wish to take out library books go for it. Otherwise wikpedia does a rundown on scrutiny of authorship of Paul quoting many sources.
@coolwater55 As I said, the RT site is biased and not credible. I know. I've investigated it well. So I suggest you leave wiki and RT sites alone and do credible study from scholarly works, the kind you find in University libraries.
If many sources and authors have questioned or studied this and developed similar findings that is good for me. HOWEVER, it does NOT mean I believe verbatim everything I read, INCLUDING every line in the bible or interpretations thereof.
It is ALL subjective. Agreed, however, about research. Next time I know I am writing a term paper on a 500 word comment board, I might be inclined to forgo making any comment at all.
You now have the challenge to prove that theory wrong. God Bless.
@coolwater55 Now that is where you are wrong. It is not "all subjective." That is nonsense. Careful research proves otherwise, and so does basic common sense. There is plenty of evidence, both internal and external, to the authenticity of Paul's writings as found in the canonical NT. People will always make claims, but the key is being able to discern flawed reasoning from that which is not flawed.
It is ALL subjective to a degree. Now what can we actually 100% PROVE what happened in all the stories in biblical times?
"stories" told by hearsay many not written down for about 100 or so years after his death and resurrection.
Jesus is not subjective. But the "stories surrounding" Jesus are subjective.
The OT and NT is SUBJECTIVE to a degree. If they were not, then no writers, scholars, or people like you and I would question or discuss or examine anything.
@coolwater55 Again, that kind of claim is absolute nonsense. Your very claim is subjective if "ALL" is subjective. You don't even know the basics of how we got New Testament, because they were written down BEFORE 100 years or so after His death and resurrection. Jesus cannot not be subjective while the stories about Him are. That is nonsense. There is no "degree" to which the OT and NT are "subjective." Do some credible research on a subject before making such false and nonsensical claims.
NO one on EARTH knows the exact stories how they occurred during JESUS time. It is ALL subjective with a concept of truth, in alignment with faith.
Do you follow the Syrian, Coptic, Orthodox bibles?
The leaders of the early Churches factioned due to DISAGREEMENTs as to which canons to include and as to some interpretations. Separate manuscripts were carried around, but the bible as YOU or I might know did NOT get sanctioned until the 4th century.
@coolwater55 I apologize for the delay in releasing your first block. But I did not unblock you so that you would come back and again violate my rules.
@coolwater55 For example, no sensible person would argue that the world is flat, right? We have too much evidence proving otherwise. Yet there are people today who STILL believe in a flat earth. So just because people question a truth it does not mean that truth is "subjective." The problem lies in those who do not have the ability to evaluate evidence.
One only has to google the topic, many sources abound. Biblical scholars from many walks share that view. 7 of the epistles are believed to be his, but the rest are subjective, with 1 Tim and 2, Titus, Ephesians, considered highly probable to not be authored by Paul.
@coolwater55 You don't do credible and scholarly Bible research by "Google." Just because people come up with half-baked ideas saying that a particular letter is not written by Paul does not mean there is any credibility to the claims. Critical thinking and looking up credible sources is key to realizing the truth.
The many, many sources that discuss Pauls authorship has long been known. I am NOT an expert. I do NOT have to prove the myriad of sources. Whether you feel my "research" is flawed? is subjective. This is yt casual forum.
If you wish to discover more about authorship of any pauline epistles, have at it.
@coolwater55 I am well aware of the CLAIMS people make, without much evidence or sound reasoning, that Paul or Peter or whoever didn't write X document. I am not impressed. So unless you are here to prove your contentions with more than the mere claims of others that I have already investigated and found weak at best, please refrain from posting.
the KEY to realizing truth -------- is JESUS. Not how or what we LOOK up or read. Although enhancing our knowledge is good.
For Jesus is everywhere and presses on our minds, hearts and souls the essence of thoughts, words.
The written word is not sufficient to truly describe the TRUTH - would you agree?
truth does NOT lie in research or a book, but happens in an instant, when one accepts Christ into their heart in a full way. ;) Humans spend millenium trying to capture that essence.
@coolwater55 But what "Jesus" are we talking about? The Jesus of the Bible who said, "I am the way, the truth and the life" and was God in human flesh, or some other "Jesus"? And no, I do not agree that the written word is not sufficient. The written word is life, and it's important that we have the truth in writing. The Bible, God's word, is life. In fact, Jesus Himself said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matt. 4:4).
@coolwater55 Sorry, but there is no "beyond written words." As I pointed out, Jesus made clear the vital importance of the written word. Just because there are many different Christian churches proves nothing but that the same human frailties that existed in the early church (1 Cor. 3:1-4), still exist today. Jesus is in first place, but it's the Jesus of the Bible, not one of our own making and imagination.
Matt 4:4 "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God
Which words in the bible are from the MOUTH of GOD? are they Pauls words, anonymous authors words, words that people shared heresay 100's or 1000's of years later?
@coolwater55 All the words of the Bible. It is clear you have no firm grasp of what Scripture is and how we arrived at it. But at this time your ability to post had been restricted for 24 hours. The topic of this video is about women preachers, not the authenticity of the Bible. So this discussion does not belong here.
That is all for now. I tire of trying to communicate with this comment pending approval stuff. Although you have every right to do this, it is annoying overall. But your right.
Very good video! I have said this as well, looking at the Hebrew/Greek helps us out alot! We are to study the Bible, not just read throught it blindly. I always said it would make sense for a WIFE to be under the Husband in the Church, but not every woman in the Church. There are prophetesses in the Bible aswell, such as Deborah in Judges 4:4-9 :) If it were true all women were to be silent, she would of been sinning, but she wasn't and actually saved delivered Israel from oppression! x
Nice video, but I'm not convinced. Nothing I've not heard before from others. Woman have no business being in the pulpit. Period. There is just too much evidence against it as it is for it. Good job, though!
@HusbandandWifeShow Thanks. But if you're going to say you're "not convinced," I would say you should see the entire series, AND review my website article on the topic. I have reviewed the "too much evidence" you claim, and much of it is speculation and inference instead of dealing from what the text actually says. Not one Scripture says "Women cannot be pastors" or "Women cannot preach." One comes close, but there are translation issues that most don't deal with.
@CRoadwarrior...oh stop it. Just how do you know what I've seen? I would not comment unless I've seen 'the entire series'. My disagreement with you isn't based on missed information, speculation, and inference. You're got the wrong person for that comment, CRW. Again, you did a fine job...I'm just not convinced. And take that pending mess off your page. Just learn to ignore people...but not us. ;)
@HusbandandWifeShow So you're saying you've seen the entire series and read my website article on this topic, which, by the way, is not completely uploaded? What are you "not convinced" about? What text states "women cannot preach"? I have pending comments for a reason and that will remain for all who are not friends.
This is my take on women preachers... First, let's be real and honest. Women have gifts and talents JUST like a man has gifts and talents. Who gave us those gifts and talents? God. With that said, "We women are given the level of grace like men to hold honorable positions and use our gifts as God has called us to." I believe that God's grace is sufficient for all of us. Men you don't have to be insecure of a woman's dominion on earth, God has called us both to dominion. con't...
@blessedlady7 I would tend to agree with you. However, I don't think it's a "dominion" issue but an issue of seeing what Scripture says as a whole, and how people have read into certain texts what's not there to hinder women in ministry. Then there's the translation issue that so many people don't deal with.
@CRoadwarrior...'hinder women'? Tsl...tsk...stop it!!!!!!!!! ARG!!! I can't stand it when a man won't take his rightful place in the church and sit these women down, please!! The example are scriptural. My goodness, CRW! Stop it! Have a blessed Summer!! ;)
@HusbandandWifeShow Where does Scripture say to sit women down? Don't see it. Stop what? Teaching truth from the original languages that people tend to ignore? lol. Anyway, you have a nice summer as well.
@CRoadwarrior - Interesting... it's kinda deep. I rely on the Holy Spirit to illuminate a lot of the scriptures to me before I read, because I know that sometimes things may not make sense. Especially, from a natural standpoint and certain wording in the English language. I haven't advanced to Hebrew translation yet, but somethings you really have to dig further.
I would recommend the book by Jon Zens if you haven't already read it entitled What's With Paul And Women it's a great read, there's a video on you tube were he talks about the clergy/laity lie.
@daboomerang319 Thanks. Don't mind disagreement, but the BASIS of your disagreement is the issue. I've studied this in some detail and if someone can prove me wrong, I am all ears.
@CRoadwarrior. . I have also and find that the egalitarian view is not consistent with Biblical doctrine. I might reply with a few questions. But not sure yet. :). Don't want to argue for the sake of arguing.
@daboomerang319 Again, there are levels of study, and few take the time to study the original languages to see what's going on. Too many people rely mainly on English translations (a mistake) and the doctrines they were taught. But from what I see, if Paul wanted to say that women in general were to "keep silent" and not to teach, he could have done so by using specific Greek words. But the ones he chose were specific to husband/wife relationship. So I fail tro see this inconsistency.
@daboomerang319 If anything, the I see the real inconsistency with those who argue against women preachers and pastors, who see no problem with men being prophets and what their role was, but don't see the clear connection when women were ALSO called as prophets in both Testaments. I maintain that the main passages used against women in ministry have been misread and mistranslated for years, which has contributed to the mess we see today.
I like what you said about KJV I used to struggle with this same issue and really started studying the topic because as I found out there was deliberate tampering with the word to fit a MALE dominated hierarchy people really need to study about the Roman Catholic Church and King James also a pastor,apostle,evangelist,teacher,deacon etc are not offices but are functions within the Body of Christ . The issue of whether a woman should preach or pastor is settled in MY MIND. 2 Timothy 2:15.
@misterkgb1 I don't know about tampering for a "MALE dominaated hierarchy" but I do see people not paying close attention to what the original Greek says and doesn't say. No Scripture clearly says, "Women cannot preach or be pastors." That much is certain. And when you factor in the fact that God had male AND female prophets in the OT, and BOTH received and gave forth the word of God, then there can be no doubt that God uses both.
continue Again you never made your Apolegetics on if Women can be in the 5fold ministry. IF so prove it with scripture Greek/ English. 1Tim 2 you took out of context, I hear nothing but Seminary coming out of you,but no Spirit or Revelation. I do agree with women spreading the gospel & winning souls for the Kingdom. But common biblical sense by the Spirit says you don't need to be a 5fold preacher or a title to do that as a christian. I expect everyone in the Body of Christ to win souls! LOL!
@bornest1 No, I did not take 1 Tim 2 out of context. I actually kept it in context, the context of the husband and wife Adam and Eve. What you hear is my detailed study, which is backed up by centuries of study in this same area. As I suggested before, what you need to do is go to my website article "Women Preachers: Forbidden in the Bible?" and read it. There are facts there that you apparently do not know.
PTL Everyone!! The champ is here! I've been busy pastoring. I been gone for a while! Friend I have also been to Semitary! Again check out my videos! No one still have righty divided. Remember Semitary will mess you up! Some things come From the HOLY GHOST! I got this teaching from the SPIRIT! READ HEB 13:7,17 LEARN DOMA GIFTS(GREEK) and get back to me RULING GIFTS! PEACE!!
@bornest1 Sorry, but I am not in "semintary," but seminary. There is a difference. There are good schools that will "mess you up," and there are better ones that will keep you FROM messing up. You claim no one has rightly divided, yet you have not backed up the claim, either here or in your videos. The Spirit who gave us Scripture in Greek will not contradict what the Greek reveals on this issue. The Greek word "Doma" refers to gifts just as other words do, with no significant difference.
1 Timothy 2:12-13 (Amplified Bible) 12I allow no woman to teach( over an Assembly) or to have authority(Taking authority by 5fold Doma Gifts Gifts of RuleHEB13:7,17) over men; she is to remain in quietness and keep silence [in religious assemblies]. This scripture does not apply to a Wife. Bad exegesis. This was universal to all churches. Question When a Women is called to 5fold Doma gifts can she have & can Usurp Authority by the power of here calling?
Any one that claims to be a Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher have proclaim to have God Authority to preach. People don't know that 5fold gifts comes with Usurping of taking Authority. A women or a man saying they are a preacher of 5fold takes Authority by there calling whether MARRIED OR NOT. This scripture in 2Tim 2:12-13 has nothing to do with marriage, but 5fold authority given by God where what EVE did, has disquaified ALL WOMEN FROM LEADERSHIP IN THE CHURCH!!
disqualified (someone) ineligible for an office or activity because of an offense.
Because Eve was caught in the Transgression all Women married or Not is ineligible to function in a OFFICE( 5fold Leadership) because of the offense. READ PLEASE! 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but [the] woman who was deceived and deluded and fell into transgression. This is what Paul was telling the Young Bishop of Ephesus, so much he says to him in the............
@bornest1 That makes absolutely no sense. BOTH Adam and Eve sinned. So by your argument, men ALSO should be disqualified from offices. In fact, Adam's sin was greater in the sense that he was told directly by God not to eat of the tree, yet he listened to his wife and still sinned. Even more, he was THERE when the serpent was tempting her, and did not correct her. He was there but silent.
O MY BROTHER! PLEASE I have to go to BIBLE STUDY. I wish you could come and learn the Word! Yes you are correct both had sin! But EVE SIN BECAUSE OF PRIDE and walk in the SIN (Transgression). READ 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. DECEIVED BY WHAT IS THE QUESTION THE DEVIL. AGAIN WOMEN ARE AGAIN BEING DECEIVED BY THE DEVIL THROUGH PRIDE....TAKE OFFICES OF LEADERSHIP IN THE CHURCH AND DECEIVED BY THE SPIRIT OF ERROR.
@bornest1 You can go to Bible study, but I'm sure you're not studying NT Greek, as I will be later tonight. The Bible does not say anything about "pride" being part of Eve's sin. She added to God's word ("nor shall you touch it" in Gen. 3:3) and THAT is how satan tricked her. God never said anything about touching it and dying in 2:17. As I said in my series, I'd rather listen to a woman who knows the Word well, than a man who doesn't know what he's talking about.
cont ........HE SAYS 1 Timothy 3:1This is a true saying, if a man(Male gender) desire the office of a bishop, he(MAN) desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife. A HUSBAND IS A MAN from male gender! Consider the OFFICE OF A BISHOP-Overseer, RULING ELDER. REMEMBER OFFICES COME WITH AUTHORITY..READ HEB 13:1717Obey them that have the rule over you, submit yourselves. Bishops/ other 5offices according to the scripture has Authority for submission of ALL men.
@bornest1 You see, this is the problem in not studying the Greek. In 1 Tim. 3:1, there is NO Greek word for "male" in the passage. What IS there is a pronoun that happens to be in the masculine for grammatical agreement purposes, but what's interesting is that this kind of pronoun can be EITHER masculine or feminine. Why is this important? Because there are pronouns that are exclusively masculine. But the Spirit did not choose one of those. Again, there were female prophets.
@bornest1 We know a husband is male. However, this is another weak argument that ignores other Scripture. The passage does NOT say only women can be elders. What you and others do is infer from "husband of one wife" that a male only can be an elder, but that's not what the text says. If that's the case, then no single men can be elders (vs 2). If that's the case, then no men without kids can be elders (vs 4). Yet we have single and childless elders.
@bornest1 What I hear from you is traditional teaching handed down to you without any detailed study. All your arguments come from a certain school of traditional thought on this issue, not from your own personal and detailed study of the Greek language. Again, I suggest you study more deeply and start with my article.
Croadwarrior, I was hoping you could help me with something. Does the "word" Elohim in Genesis 1:1 refer to the trinity view of God or the unity of the one person God and His attributes? I see a lot of scholarly sources going to the Hebrew language to either prove trinity or the unity view, would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
@ncbookz I did. In fact, I even went into the original Greek of the passages in question. Who was formed first is not an issue, since animals were formed before both Adam and Eve.
@ncbookz You are speaking of a different passage than the ones I address in my series. I will address the "husband of one wife" passage in another series. But that is not the same as saying "women cannot preach." You cannot take inferences too far, and that's what people do. Being "sober minded" does not mean "be silent" or "you cannot preach or teach." People need to read more carefully and study more deeply.
Of the original 54 men chosen to translate the King James Bible, 47 finished the over 7 year project, which was governed by very strict rules of translation. The translators were scholarly men who were experts in the biblical languages. Dr. Henry M. Morris, President of the Institute for Creation Research, said of these men, "It is almost certain that no group of Bible scholars before or since has ever been as thoroughly fit for their task as was the King James Translation Team."
@052333roger While all that may be fine and good, it still does not address the central issues I presented in my series. The KJV is good, but it is by no means the best translation from the originals. And the fact remains that most translations cannot convey the original accurately because of translation issues you cannot understand unless you actually study the languages. Now you can trust these translators if you wish, but I prefer to go back to the originals for myself.
If you read the rest of the sentence in 1 Tim 11, Paul is clearly speaking of ALL WOMEN. This is universal and theological. The scripture proves this when it gives the reasons why; "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived". In other words men and women were made DIFFERENTLY for different purposes. Why would you choose to believe the interpretation of your "Dr. Z" above all the interpretations throughout all church history.
@052333roger If you had studied this issue more thoroughly throughout church history and interpretation, and paid attention to the facts presented in this series, you would know better. I clearly show that from the time of Luther, this passage was seen as husband/wife specific. It cannot be speaking of all women because the context does not allow for this, and the Greek words used in that context do not. I suggest you pay closer attention and do more research.
@052333roger You are giving me rhetoric you've heard over the years, not what Scripture actually says. The "reason" you state is not a "reason." Animals were made before both Adam and Eve, but that mere fact does not give them any greater authority to teach or preach. So that "reason" does not hold up logically. "Dr. Z" is backed up by centuries of scholarship in the original Greek, which I suggest you study.
Do you think that you are greater than the apostle Paul which spoke under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, you are trying to change the spiritual meaning to meet your own misunderstanding, believe the bible for what it is.
@TheUnknownApostle The Bible was not originally written in English, and therefore it becomes necessary to investigate what the original Greek has to say. It's not about being "greater" or lesser than Paul but understanding more clearly what Paul said. You simply have not studied this beyond the English translation level and think you know what you haven't studied in detail. So what I suggest you do is watch and learn.
@CRoadwarrior I kind of like you man, but I know you still decieved! You kind of touched my heart with your silly wisdom, therefore I hope Jesus touch your and open your eyes. I love you...
@TheUnknownApostle Interesting words, but you still need to study beyond the King James Version, otherwise you will never learn the deeper things of God found in the originals.
You are a heretic, professing to be wise but you are a fool! I've studied a bible over 27 years, and I came to the conclusion that you have to have the Holy Ghost to understand the scripture, your understanding is nature, You need to ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Ghost, and pray for God's understanding.
@TheUnknownApostle Again, no I am not . You would know this if you paid any serious attention to my videos and my statement of faith on my website. Sure, you need the Holy Spirit, BUT you also need accurate knowledge based on serious study of the Bible in the original languages. All the prayer in the world will not teach you Hebrew and Greek. That takes STUDY under normal circumstances.
Dude you are a hickory nut! Women cannot preach or be the head of any Church of Yah!
Again you have no Holy spirit to discern scripture! You are blinded by your pagan christianity! Dude you cant talk! You dont know what you are talking about!
But hey everyone can have an opinion even if it is wrong!
@hebrewjisrael Oh really? So when God called and used many women from Old to New Testaments, He was also a "hickory nut"? I guess Yah made a mistake speaking through Deborah in Judges and her husband should have told her to shut up. lol. Before talking about who has or has not the Holy Spirit, you better make sure YOU have what you claim others don't. Your task is to PROVE me wrong using valid evidence and arguments, not just merely assert it. One thing is easy, the other is not.
@CRoadwarrior Lets try this again. Deborah was a judge. She shared judgeship with Barak. Deborah did not preach! Any women that Yah used in the old testament didnt ordain them to preach!
There was never a woman high priest in the old testament! The high priest came from the SONS of Aaron. God has order and he does things in order. In the new testament the office of a Bishop is clear. HE must be blameless and the HUSBAND of ONE WIFE!
@hebrewjisrael@hebrewjisrael Deborah was a judge AND a prophetess. And don't tell me a prophet does not preach. That's nonsense. The argument that there was never a woman priest in the OT is no valid argument, since a prophet is one who speaks God's word, which is basically a form of preaching or proclaiming. These word games will not work with me. There is no Greek word for "office" in the text of 1 Tim., and the text does not exclude women directly but only as people make inference.
Check the context, it gives the reason for silence. Admittedly, this speaks of man and wife but also man and woman. It has to with who was deceived and I believe, who is more prone to being deceived today.
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Tim 2:13-14
@Enoch2 I know the context and wrote a quite extensive paper on the topic. First of all, the "silence" is not complete silence as in not saying a word. Second, as I pointed out from the Greek, if Paul wanted us to get the understanding that women in general were being referred to, he could have used a different Greek word. Most of the cults today were started by MEN, not women. So I cannot buy the idea that women are more prone to being deceived.
I think women shouldnt be heads of churches because the men NEED TO! if women take over certain things, men WONT DO THEM AND get lazy(dont forget Adam was PASSIVE with Eve and the serpent--he should have said don't)--also many men believe in evolution more than women and so-called atheism--if too many preachers are women, it would be a disaster for the church at large..even boys without dads need to have male tutors for school IMO
@49jubilee This is not about women taking over. It's about whether or not God has called or does call women to preach the Gospel. And from Old to New Testament, God has indeed used women to send forth his message. Women have unique and needed gifts that God can and does use.
I think women shouldnt preach because the men NEED TO! because if women take over certain things, men WONT DO THEM AND get lazy--also many men believe in evolution more than women and so-called atheism--if too many preachers are women, it would be a disaster for the church at large..even boys without dads need to have male tutors for school IMO
@49jubilee You must realize that it's now about who "needs" to preach. God can use a donkey to rebuke a prophet, and a woman to rebuke a man, if needed. God has used women in the past and does today. That much is clear from the Bible.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Man ALL these cats on You tube are FALSE. Read ur bible, trust in Christ and get in to a Interdependent Fundamental Baptist Church!
Bible clearly states a woman's place is in the home and for a woman to be over a man is a sin and will cause that man to be in error period. You can't Jump over right to do WRONG!
@narcissusnostalgia I can see you did not watch this series and you also disregarded the facts pointed out from the Greek. Paul was NOT saying all women in general cannot teach, and he was speaking about mere "authority."
@narcissusnostalgia talking about God or for God is not asurping authority over anyone. there is a misconception of what is authority and what isnt authority, what is pastoring, discussing, teaching, prophesying, etc.. God uses women too , just in different ways. our position in life is to be at home, but our godly position is not limited to just shutting up and not speaking for or about God.
Wow this is explosive!! I was offered a potential teaching possition in my church and I was apprehencive because of 1 tim and 1 corinthians and I had just ask the lord to give me a clear answer b/c I really wanted to do it but didnt want to displease the lord. I had just got done trying to decifer these scriptures and prayed about it when I came upon this!!! Not even 20 minutes ago I asked for a clear answer about his true feeling on this! Thank God cause I LOVE to teach!:)
@poo0115104 Be sure to read my website article because it goes into much more detail than the videos. I'm glad I could be of service. Just remember to STUDY well so that you rightly interpret the Word, because it's very important.
Then you have Isaiah 3:12 women rule over men and men are in err cause of it. When The Most Hight told Aaron to take his sons and go preach he had two daughters why didn't The Most High send them as well. Titus 2:3-5 is the role of the women. Revelations 2:20-23 Jezebel Prophetess teaching the servents. Look what happens to her. The King James is the most accurate Bible.
@kandiburbslammed You are in error, not knowing the Scriptures accurately or the facts about how we received them. The King James is NOT the most accurate Bible. It's filled with 300 year old English that sometimes causes more problems that it solves. No Scripture came down originally in English. If you don't know that, you need to do some basic study of Bible origins.
@CRoadwarrior If I'm in err prove it with scripture. I know The Bible was not in english. English is one of the youngest language. Paleo Hebrew,Greek, then English. It's the most accurate translation. 2 Tim. 3:14 Correct me with scripture not with your logic. 1 Thessaionians 5:21 Prove there's a female Preacher or Disciple in the. What have I shown for you to say I don't know the scriptures Aaron had Daugthers Why didn't The Most High send them to preach as well.
@kandiburbslammed The only way you can make a VALID claim that the King James Bible is the "most accurate" translation is if you actually know both Hebrew and Greek, and can then compare the KJV with the originals. If you cannot do that, you don't KNOW. You assume. And there's nothing wrong with good, sound logic, which God has given us our minds to use. What was Deborah? A female prophet, preaching God's word and judging ALL Israel (Judges 4).
@CRoadwarrior Prophet WARNS the people of something The Most High is going to do. So Jonah was a preacher as well? HA we was only a prophet when he went to Nineveh he didn't teach he warn the same as Derborah in Judges 4. Judge gives punishment not the same as preacher teaches the bible. The Most High gave us Dominion over the anaimal and fowls of the air. I am no fool. The order I was speaking of is man is the head of women as in 1 Corinthians 11:3. your logic is philosophy Colossian 2:8
@kandiburbslammed Prophets may warn, but they also preach and teach at times. The key point is that they receive word from God and speak it. ALL of them, male or female, do that. A warning is a message being spoken. And in the Greek of 1 Corin. 11:3, the word for "man" is not the generic anthropos, but the word for HUSBAND known as "andros." You quote Scripture but do not understand what you quote and believe doctrines having no real understanding of what you believe.
@kandiburbslammed So before you go off the deep end here, I suggest you view the entire series, and THEN tell me if you've learned anything and posit your questions or comments.
@CRoadwarrior Show me a female disciple that taught like Yashayah(Jesus), Paul, John, Matthew and so on. That preached not prophesize two different things.
@kandiburbslammed That is not an argument. You are avoiding the facts laid out in the videos. Jesus ALSO chose Jewish disciples. Are you now going to argue that only Jews can teach? And to play the game that preaching and prophesying are two different things is also no valid argument.
@CRoadwarrior Paul did state Jew first Gentile Second. and NO it's not for a just for a Jew to teach. Don't digree Original topic CAN WOMEN PREACH. No. I know this is no argument cause you can't come up with a vaild female teacher in the bible. Don't give me prophets their not the same> I have given ample amount of scriptures were the Man is THE head of a women. It even states in the bible when a women leads man in the church the man is in err cause of it. I done with this point proven. Shalom
@kandiburbslammed You miss my point. Jesus also chose JEWS, so to follow your irrational argument, only Jews can teach. But that doesn't work. Neither does it work that because the apostles were all men that this must mean only men can teach. Nonsense. I've given you Scripture, but you ignore or play games to maintain our belief system. I don't have time for that. Watch the videos and learn. And no, the text speaks of the HUSBAND being the head of his wife, not "man" generically.
@kandiburbslammed So, since you have a problem paying attention to facts presented in the video and continue repeating the same refuted and answered claims, we have nothing further to discuss until you've actually taken the time to view the whole series to understand the points I've made. But so far, you have only proved that you have a viewpoint based on English mistranslations and you don't care what the original Greek says or implies.
@kandiburbslammed And whether or not God chose to send Aaron's daughters to preach is not germaine to this issue. The issue is, did God ever have women doing the exact same thing as the male prophets who spoke His words to the people. The unambiguous answer to that question is YES.
FALSE FALSE FALSE What about the Traits of a bishop 1 Timothy 3:1 Traits of a bishop Husband of one wife. Then why DIdn't "Jesus" have any female disciples? 2 Timothy 2:11-14 is plain english then he gives you the reason why a women can't. Eve represents all women she was deceived and fell into transgression. Woman can be Prophets there were 5 of them and one was a judge. Then you have Numbers 27:15-18 Set a man over the congregation. Then you have Ephesians 4:8,11 where he gave men gives.
@kandiburbslammed You cannot just claim something is false, especially when you have not done any serious research into the original language of the text. The so-called traits of a bishop are not followed literally, since we do have single bishops who have no kids. 2 Tim. 11-14 may have been TRANSLATED into "plain English," but it did not come down to us from God originally in English. This too many people forget. Eve was a married woman, and the context is husband/wife relationship.
@CRoadwarrior The Bible is truth right every jot and tittle. I know Eve was married. Then you have the virtuous woman Proverbs 31:10 I didn't see teach the word in there. I'm not a he-man woman hater. But AHAYAH had order in how wanted us to live. 1 Corinthians 11:3 Shalom
@kandiburbslammed Yes, the Bible is truth. There are many things not in Proverbs 31:10, like the facts of Judges 4 and Deborah's role as a female prophet and judge. Animals were created before even Adam and Eve. What does that "order" prove? Should animals rule over us now? I don't think so.
give that crap back to the whiteman. Blackwomen were in the worlds first priesthoods in Ancient Kush & Egypt. why not now in christianity,islam or judaism.
Women can be preachers because God/Jesus never prohibits it. If you want to follow the Bible word for word, then you need to request every sister in the church to undue their braids and remove their jewelery, because Paul prohibits that as well. You either take the Bible into context, or you follow it to a "T" I will not follow the rule of man, even men of the Bible if it contradicts equality, period. Derive from that as you wish.
@FreeCapital Superhero? Hardly. Following the Bible is not an all or nothing proposition as many suppose because they fail to understand the Bible holistically. Paul did NOT forbid the wearing of braids and jewelry. That is a misunderstanding of the text. Paul is emphasizing that women/wives should strive to dress modestly and have an inner life pleasing to God (1 Tim. 2:9; 1 Peter 3:3,4). This is not about "equality" but right living.
Oh and it should be noted that I do support women teachers and pastors. It's awkward when a church says that women can't teach scriptures to men but yet women are the vast majority of sunday school teachers, teaching young men or little men.
Continued.....The OP made came to the same conclusions using hermaneutics and I'm simply showing how I came to the conclusions without using hermaneutics but understanding the verse in context, God Bless.
The English translations is only misleading if you want it to be and don't take the time to read the verses in context. Never forget the three most important rules in sound bibical interpretation they are: 1 Context, 2 Context, and 3 Context. All this hermaneutical study is unnecessary when dealing with 99 percent of difficulities in the Bible from my experience. Lets take 1 Cor 14:34-35, ...it says women should ask of their husbands? Hmm, what do you call women who have husbands.....WIVES.
@cubed07 Hermeneutics involves context, so you cannot say hermeneutical study is unnecessary when the study itself of things in context speaks of hermeneutics.
@CRoadwarrior It can be but 99 percent of the time the context is either in the verse itself or in the verses around it. But the main thing I'm against is people saying the translators were wrong or they used the wrong words and thus you conclude the english translations to be misleading. I believe you can understand the english version without hermaneutics. God Bless.
@cubed07 What you must realize is that sometimes the translators ARE wrong. And the only way to know that is by doing research beyond the superficial level. And you cannot understand ANY literature without applying hermeneutics, whether you realize it or not. Hermeneutics and study of the original languages becomes essential in Bible study because we were not raised in Hebrew and Greek.
If that is true then; that would make the bible not the inspired word of god; 2 Timothy 3:16; but the inspired word of man.Brother this kind of talk will make a weak brother or sister fall; and a sinner will laugh at us christians because we're following false doctrine. We christians need to stop trying to find greek meanings of words and names; and just show the world what faith is. An believe what God gave us.I love ur spirit man and I hope u love mine. Brotherfrank62.
brotherfrank62 2 weeks ago in playlist Videos Supporting Women Preachers/Ministers
@brotherfrank62 No, this says nothing against the Bible being the "inspired" word of God. We cannot ignore the fact that God gave us Scripture originally in Hebrew and Greek. That leads to foolishness and false doctrine quicker than anything else. Notice carefully what 2 Tim. 3:16 says and does not say. It does not say all TRANSLATIONS of Scripture are "inspired" or more accurately, "God-breathed." Why? Because such a statement would be a lie...
CRoadwarrior 2 weeks ago
@brotherfrank62 ...A perfect example would be the Watchtower "New World" translation of "Jehovah's Witnesses," which is distorted to fit Watchtower doctrine. It is not a thoroughly and truly "God-breathed" translation, and where it deviates from the original it is not of God. So we need to study beyond the surface of the English by the very nature of how God produced it.
CRoadwarrior 2 weeks ago
@CRoadwarrior The bottom line is; this kind of talk will make weak people fall; and sinners want believe that any of the word of God is real.I don't think God would want us christians talking like that. because its not positive. it sounds like a trick of the devil. :(
brotherfrank62 2 weeks ago
@brotherfrank62 Weak people need to be made strong. And you don't get strong by being given false hope and false information about the Bible. There are atheists who know that the Bible was given originally in Hebrew and Greek and what that means. So it is not wise for Christians to be ignorant of these things. The real trick of the devil is to keep us ignorant of the truth.
CRoadwarrior 2 weeks ago
So wifes should submit instead
six80ususus 2 weeks ago
@six80ususus Wives should submit to their own husbands.
CRoadwarrior 2 weeks ago
Then who knows what the real meaning is of the bible? Perhaps all is inacuratly translated of maybey half. Only the parts that make sense to belivers is accurate right?
six80ususus 2 weeks ago
@six80ususus No, this just points to the importance of detailed study instead of relying only on English translations.
CRoadwarrior 2 weeks ago
[2/2] Also, in your diligent studying, pls note that the word study is mentioned only 3 times in the Bible. Only one time it means actually study [Ecc 12:12]. Study as mentioned in 2 Tim 2:15 is speaking of making haste to be approved of God. Held a 4.0 in Divinity School before I left realizing that 'that knowledge' wasn't necessarily Godly knowledge. The Bible says the Spirit guides to truth, so while we must study...it should be 2ndary to prayer...as pray is mentioned 313 time in the Bible.
alchemistickolaj 1 month ago
@alchemistickolaj The fact that the word "study" only appears 3 times does not take away from the importance of diligent study and meditation on God's word. And I am not impressed with your "Divinity School" GPA, especially when the fact is that all schools are not created equal. There are good schools and bad ones, and it appears you attended a bad one, or you did not have the Spirit. Prayer is important, but prayer without study leads to nonsense....
CRoadwarrior 1 month ago
@alchemistickolaj ...as Scripture plainly says that heaven and earth will pass away but not God's word. So God's word and study of it is primary and will last according to God Himself, no matter how many times "pray" is mentioned.
CRoadwarrior 1 month ago
[1/2] @CRoad - That I don't deny Sir. But how much studying did you have to do to clearly understand the requirements for a Bishop? Yes, women were very relevant in Scripture but somehow everyone seems to fail at quoting a precise verse that depicts women preaching in the full assembly. All I need is one verse. Women witnessed, prophesied [which is fore OR forth telling], they held political authority, and they worked along with men and/or their husbands in private settings to teach...
alchemistickolaj 1 month ago
@alchemistickolaj Those "requirements" do not overtly exclude women, as the passage does not say "women cannot be bishops." People eisegete that into the text, but that is NOT what is says. If men and women were called by God to be prophets, and both fore and forth told, it is clear God can use women in that capacity.
CRoadwarrior 1 month ago
[2/2]...God would require you or anyone else to go through all that, 2,000 years later, to find out something He'd ordained from the beginning? Doesn't make sense that He'd require us to work and think so hard to "discover" something that should be plain & clear. If we make it a sexist thing...sure there'll be conflict but realizing that God clearly allows women to rear other women and children shows us that they actually already have authority to minister to the larger portion of the church!
alchemistickolaj 1 month ago
@alchemistickolaj God requires us to study and be diligent at it. God does more than just allow women to rear children and other women. That much is clear from the whole of Scripture.
CRoadwarrior 1 month ago
[1/2] @CRoad. That's not exactly what I was referring to. You made a distinction between female "preachers" and "pastors" @ 1:38-1:44 as if to imply that they could preach but perhaps they aren't necessarily called to Pastor. In regard to the Bible clearly saying "hey lady, don't preach"...of course not but on the same token it doesn't say Gospel of Mary or Apostle Keisha either. [I know about Junia too, which is sketchy amongst many scholars]. Thx for your research, but do you really think...
alchemistickolaj 1 month ago
@alchemistickolaj I made the distinction between "preachers" and "pastors" because I am still in the process of studying the head pastor issue. While there is no "Gospel of Mary" there is Esther and Ruth, both books of the Bible focusing on women and their roles in the plan of God. The point is, we need to do better research and not just accept the claims people make from English translations only.
CRoadwarrior 1 month ago
@Croadwarrior - Within the first 2 minutes of your vid I was struck with a question which may've already been asked in this thread but anyhow; how could someone justly allow a woman to preach and at the same time contain her from elevation to Pastor? Without getting into the typical Scriptural arguments or going super-deep theologically, that principle alone makes no sense to me. As that woman matures in 'her position', she'll inevitably reason she's grown out of such a position.
alchemistickolaj 1 month ago
@alchemistickolaj There is no Scripture forbidding women from preaching. That much is clear. And we have several examples in Scripture of women giving forth God's word and being used by God. My point is that we need to be more careful as we attempt to interpret Scripture by taking into account the original languages and context. My question is, where is the Scripture which clearly says "women cannot be pastors"?
CRoadwarrior 1 month ago
Why hide behind the you tube comment approval process? Make full proof of your ministry as Paul suggested and display my rebuttal please?
rkfromchi 3 months ago
@rkfromchi No one is hiding anywhere. Some people don't know the meaning of the words "civil discourse," and so I screen comments because I have a responsibility to the youth that may view my channel. What "rebuttal" are you referring to? I see nothing remotely close to a rebuttal.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
The funny part about this video is the fact that more people opinions about translations were quoted than actual scriptures that state a woman can preside as the head of a congregation. Also, when Christ returns to setup his kingdom on Earth, he is going to re-institute the Levitical priesthood just as he did with Moses & Aaron with only males. Oh wait, Christ only picked 12 males apostles? Yes, Jesus Christ the same today, yesterday, & forever my friend.
rkfromchi 3 months ago
@rkfromchi Funnier is how people tend to ignore basic facts. Fact 1: No Scripture says women in general cannot preach OR preside over a congregation. Fact 2: No Scripture forbids unambiguously forbids women in general to preach or teach. Jesus is going to "re-institute" the old, dead Levite priesthood?? Really? No Scripture says that, and if you find one it's been grossly misinterpreted. Jesus sacrifice on the cross negates that priesthood according to Hebrews...
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
@rkfromchi ....And as for the old and weak argument about Jesus picking 12 males, you and others who use this fallacious argument forget that they were ALSO all Jewish males. Are you going to argue that ministry should only be done by Jews? Nonsense. And, to take it further, He ALSO picked a traitor, a devil, in Judas Iscariot. So must we also pick devils to do ministry with us just as Jesus did? Again I say...nonsense.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
why is chistianity so complicated
OUTOFGAS88 5 months ago
@OUTOFGAS88 It's not. But certain issues like translation from Bible languages to English can be.
CRoadwarrior 5 months ago
Great vid thank you.
mtlindale 6 months ago
I don't think this video made your point...I was trying to go with you, but your translation to conclusion didn't do it for me.
How about this, find me a woman who is the husband of one wife (1 Tim 3:2). That woman can, without question, be my pastor.
On a serious note, context is everything, and from all I've studied, I don't beleive women should pastor. Instead of men and woman fighting for the pulpit - how about feed the hungry, loving your enemy, caring for the widows and orphans.
kimcrediblelove 6 months ago
@kimcrediblelove Well, if you had seen the entire series and studied this topic as deeply, perhaps your view would be different. 1 Tim. 3:2 does not invalidate a female pastor, since you assume like most that Paul was excluding them in the passage. That's a non sequitur fallacy. Paul never said "women cannot be pastors." That is a fact. There were female prophets in both Testaments, and part of that "job" was speaking what God said, just like a pastor.
CRoadwarrior 6 months ago
@kimcrediblelove The fact remains, however, that this series is NOT about women being pastors. It's about women preachers. The pastor issue is a separate one and will be addressed at another time.
CRoadwarrior 6 months ago
@kimcrediblelove
How about this:
The husband of ONE wife.
Why does a numerical digit have to be assigned to the word "wife"
The husband of ONE WIFE.
This ONLY means that the MEN who practiced polygamy could NOT be an elder. The elders could only have ONE wife.
Seeing as WOMEN could not practice polandry, there was NO need to say the wife of ONE husband. (the word BISHOP is never used as proper translation in the bible). side note. Paul did not author 1 Tim .
coolwater55 4 months ago
@coolwater55 Who told you that Paul did not author 1 Timothy?
CRoadwarrior 4 months ago
@CRoadwarrior
I have read on more than one site the discrepencies and theories of the epistles. Perhaps a more prominant place is religioustolerance org. Just look up Pauls epistles. Morton etc. scholars, conservatives and liberals have a general concensus as to 7 epistles being Pauls and the otheres in question.
No one personally "told me" these things. They are easily searched out on the internet.
coolwater55 4 months ago
@coolwater55 Sorry to tell you this, but everything on the Net is not credible. And the site "Religioustolerance" is one of the most unreliable and biased ones out there. Your research is flawed at best.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
Yes, the internet has many sources and credibility can be suspect. Religious tolerance is only one site. I do not have time to look up all the places I have seen this over time. Although wikpedia is not a credible authority for University work, It can provide quick bibliography of sources. ie, if you wish to take out library books go for it. Otherwise wikpedia does a rundown on scrutiny of authorship of Paul quoting many sources.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 As I said, the RT site is biased and not credible. I know. I've investigated it well. So I suggest you leave wiki and RT sites alone and do credible study from scholarly works, the kind you find in University libraries.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
If many sources and authors have questioned or studied this and developed similar findings that is good for me. HOWEVER, it does NOT mean I believe verbatim everything I read, INCLUDING every line in the bible or interpretations thereof.
It is ALL subjective. Agreed, however, about research. Next time I know I am writing a term paper on a 500 word comment board, I might be inclined to forgo making any comment at all.
You now have the challenge to prove that theory wrong. God Bless.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 Now that is where you are wrong. It is not "all subjective." That is nonsense. Careful research proves otherwise, and so does basic common sense. There is plenty of evidence, both internal and external, to the authenticity of Paul's writings as found in the canonical NT. People will always make claims, but the key is being able to discern flawed reasoning from that which is not flawed.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
It is ALL subjective to a degree. Now what can we actually 100% PROVE what happened in all the stories in biblical times?
"stories" told by hearsay many not written down for about 100 or so years after his death and resurrection.
Jesus is not subjective. But the "stories surrounding" Jesus are subjective.
The OT and NT is SUBJECTIVE to a degree. If they were not, then no writers, scholars, or people like you and I would question or discuss or examine anything.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 Again, that kind of claim is absolute nonsense. Your very claim is subjective if "ALL" is subjective. You don't even know the basics of how we got New Testament, because they were written down BEFORE 100 years or so after His death and resurrection. Jesus cannot not be subjective while the stories about Him are. That is nonsense. There is no "degree" to which the OT and NT are "subjective." Do some credible research on a subject before making such false and nonsensical claims.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
@CRoadwarrior
NO one on EARTH knows the exact stories how they occurred during JESUS time. It is ALL subjective with a concept of truth, in alignment with faith.
Do you follow the Syrian, Coptic, Orthodox bibles?
The leaders of the early Churches factioned due to DISAGREEMENTs as to which canons to include and as to some interpretations. Separate manuscripts were carried around, but the bible as YOU or I might know did NOT get sanctioned until the 4th century.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 I apologize for the delay in releasing your first block. But I did not unblock you so that you would come back and again violate my rules.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
@coolwater55 For example, no sensible person would argue that the world is flat, right? We have too much evidence proving otherwise. Yet there are people today who STILL believe in a flat earth. So just because people question a truth it does not mean that truth is "subjective." The problem lies in those who do not have the ability to evaluate evidence.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
@CRoadwarrior
Of course that would be your choice.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@CRoadwarrior
One only has to google the topic, many sources abound. Biblical scholars from many walks share that view. 7 of the epistles are believed to be his, but the rest are subjective, with 1 Tim and 2, Titus, Ephesians, considered highly probable to not be authored by Paul.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 You don't do credible and scholarly Bible research by "Google." Just because people come up with half-baked ideas saying that a particular letter is not written by Paul does not mean there is any credibility to the claims. Critical thinking and looking up credible sources is key to realizing the truth.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
The many, many sources that discuss Pauls authorship has long been known. I am NOT an expert. I do NOT have to prove the myriad of sources. Whether you feel my "research" is flawed? is subjective. This is yt casual forum.
If you wish to discover more about authorship of any pauline epistles, have at it.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 I am well aware of the CLAIMS people make, without much evidence or sound reasoning, that Paul or Peter or whoever didn't write X document. I am not impressed. So unless you are here to prove your contentions with more than the mere claims of others that I have already investigated and found weak at best, please refrain from posting.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
the KEY to realizing truth -------- is JESUS. Not how or what we LOOK up or read. Although enhancing our knowledge is good.
For Jesus is everywhere and presses on our minds, hearts and souls the essence of thoughts, words.
The written word is not sufficient to truly describe the TRUTH - would you agree?
truth does NOT lie in research or a book, but happens in an instant, when one accepts Christ into their heart in a full way. ;) Humans spend millenium trying to capture that essence.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 But what "Jesus" are we talking about? The Jesus of the Bible who said, "I am the way, the truth and the life" and was God in human flesh, or some other "Jesus"? And no, I do not agree that the written word is not sufficient. The written word is life, and it's important that we have the truth in writing. The Bible, God's word, is life. In fact, Jesus Himself said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matt. 4:4).
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
The Jesus who lives in our hearts when we accept we are nothing without God.
Scripture has its place. But Christians are Not "converted to Christians from the bible, but from Christ via the Holy Spirit.
over 30000 different christian churches now and counting.
Many churches accept or reject or create doctrine, dogma out of the same bible.
Yes, the bible has its place, but JESUS is in first place. Jesus via the Holy Spirit shows us beyond written words.
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 Sorry, but there is no "beyond written words." As I pointed out, Jesus made clear the vital importance of the written word. Just because there are many different Christian churches proves nothing but that the same human frailties that existed in the early church (1 Cor. 3:1-4), still exist today. Jesus is in first place, but it's the Jesus of the Bible, not one of our own making and imagination.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
Lets take your quote.
Matt 4:4 "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God
Which words in the bible are from the MOUTH of GOD? are they Pauls words, anonymous authors words, words that people shared heresay 100's or 1000's of years later?
coolwater55 3 months ago
@coolwater55 All the words of the Bible. It is clear you have no firm grasp of what Scripture is and how we arrived at it. But at this time your ability to post had been restricted for 24 hours. The topic of this video is about women preachers, not the authenticity of the Bible. So this discussion does not belong here.
CRoadwarrior 3 months ago
@CRoadwarrior
That is all for now. I tire of trying to communicate with this comment pending approval stuff. Although you have every right to do this, it is annoying overall. But your right.
God Bless.
coolwater55 3 months ago
Very good video! I have said this as well, looking at the Hebrew/Greek helps us out alot! We are to study the Bible, not just read throught it blindly. I always said it would make sense for a WIFE to be under the Husband in the Church, but not every woman in the Church. There are prophetesses in the Bible aswell, such as Deborah in Judges 4:4-9 :) If it were true all women were to be silent, she would of been sinning, but she wasn't and actually saved delivered Israel from oppression! x
xCherryFizzlex 6 months ago
Nice video, but I'm not convinced. Nothing I've not heard before from others. Woman have no business being in the pulpit. Period. There is just too much evidence against it as it is for it. Good job, though!
Stay safe...
D-bo
HusbandandWifeShow 8 months ago
@HusbandandWifeShow Thanks. But if you're going to say you're "not convinced," I would say you should see the entire series, AND review my website article on the topic. I have reviewed the "too much evidence" you claim, and much of it is speculation and inference instead of dealing from what the text actually says. Not one Scripture says "Women cannot be pastors" or "Women cannot preach." One comes close, but there are translation issues that most don't deal with.
CRoadwarrior 8 months ago
@CRoadwarrior...oh stop it. Just how do you know what I've seen? I would not comment unless I've seen 'the entire series'. My disagreement with you isn't based on missed information, speculation, and inference. You're got the wrong person for that comment, CRW. Again, you did a fine job...I'm just not convinced. And take that pending mess off your page. Just learn to ignore people...but not us. ;)
D-bo
HusbandandWifeShow 8 months ago
@HusbandandWifeShow So you're saying you've seen the entire series and read my website article on this topic, which, by the way, is not completely uploaded? What are you "not convinced" about? What text states "women cannot preach"? I have pending comments for a reason and that will remain for all who are not friends.
CRoadwarrior 7 months ago
This is my take on women preachers... First, let's be real and honest. Women have gifts and talents JUST like a man has gifts and talents. Who gave us those gifts and talents? God. With that said, "We women are given the level of grace like men to hold honorable positions and use our gifts as God has called us to." I believe that God's grace is sufficient for all of us. Men you don't have to be insecure of a woman's dominion on earth, God has called us both to dominion. con't...
blessedlady7 8 months ago
@blessedlady7 I would tend to agree with you. However, I don't think it's a "dominion" issue but an issue of seeing what Scripture says as a whole, and how people have read into certain texts what's not there to hinder women in ministry. Then there's the translation issue that so many people don't deal with.
CRoadwarrior 8 months ago
@CRoadwarrior...'hinder women'? Tsl...tsk...stop it!!!!!!!!! ARG!!! I can't stand it when a man won't take his rightful place in the church and sit these women down, please!! The example are scriptural. My goodness, CRW! Stop it! Have a blessed Summer!! ;)
D-bo
HusbandandWifeShow 8 months ago
@HusbandandWifeShow Where does Scripture say to sit women down? Don't see it. Stop what? Teaching truth from the original languages that people tend to ignore? lol. Anyway, you have a nice summer as well.
CRoadwarrior 7 months ago
@CRoadwarrior - Interesting... it's kinda deep. I rely on the Holy Spirit to illuminate a lot of the scriptures to me before I read, because I know that sometimes things may not make sense. Especially, from a natural standpoint and certain wording in the English language. I haven't advanced to Hebrew translation yet, but somethings you really have to dig further.
blessedlady7 8 months ago
I would recommend the book by Jon Zens if you haven't already read it entitled What's With Paul And Women it's a great read, there's a video on you tube were he talks about the clergy/laity lie.
misterkgb1 8 months ago
@misterkgb1 Thanks. I'll check him out.
CRoadwarrior 8 months ago
great vid! but i wanted to hear your thoughts and straight to the point.
jackies35 9 months ago
Love your camping videos but have to disagree here. But I still like you! LOL!
daboomerang319 9 months ago
@daboomerang319 Thanks. Don't mind disagreement, but the BASIS of your disagreement is the issue. I've studied this in some detail and if someone can prove me wrong, I am all ears.
CRoadwarrior 9 months ago
@CRoadwarrior. . I have also and find that the egalitarian view is not consistent with Biblical doctrine. I might reply with a few questions. But not sure yet. :). Don't want to argue for the sake of arguing.
daboomerang319 8 months ago
@daboomerang319 Again, there are levels of study, and few take the time to study the original languages to see what's going on. Too many people rely mainly on English translations (a mistake) and the doctrines they were taught. But from what I see, if Paul wanted to say that women in general were to "keep silent" and not to teach, he could have done so by using specific Greek words. But the ones he chose were specific to husband/wife relationship. So I fail tro see this inconsistency.
CRoadwarrior 8 months ago
@daboomerang319 If anything, the I see the real inconsistency with those who argue against women preachers and pastors, who see no problem with men being prophets and what their role was, but don't see the clear connection when women were ALSO called as prophets in both Testaments. I maintain that the main passages used against women in ministry have been misread and mistranslated for years, which has contributed to the mess we see today.
CRoadwarrior 8 months ago
I like what you said about KJV I used to struggle with this same issue and really started studying the topic because as I found out there was deliberate tampering with the word to fit a MALE dominated hierarchy people really need to study about the Roman Catholic Church and King James also a pastor,apostle,evangelist,teacher,deacon etc are not offices but are functions within the Body of Christ . The issue of whether a woman should preach or pastor is settled in MY MIND. 2 Timothy 2:15.
misterkgb1 10 months ago
@misterkgb1 I don't know about tampering for a "MALE dominaated hierarchy" but I do see people not paying close attention to what the original Greek says and doesn't say. No Scripture clearly says, "Women cannot preach or be pastors." That much is certain. And when you factor in the fact that God had male AND female prophets in the OT, and BOTH received and gave forth the word of God, then there can be no doubt that God uses both.
CRoadwarrior 9 months ago
continue Again you never made your Apolegetics on if Women can be in the 5fold ministry. IF so prove it with scripture Greek/ English. 1Tim 2 you took out of context, I hear nothing but Seminary coming out of you,but no Spirit or Revelation. I do agree with women spreading the gospel & winning souls for the Kingdom. But common biblical sense by the Spirit says you don't need to be a 5fold preacher or a title to do that as a christian. I expect everyone in the Body of Christ to win souls! LOL!
bornest1 11 months ago
@bornest1 No, I did not take 1 Tim 2 out of context. I actually kept it in context, the context of the husband and wife Adam and Eve. What you hear is my detailed study, which is backed up by centuries of study in this same area. As I suggested before, what you need to do is go to my website article "Women Preachers: Forbidden in the Bible?" and read it. There are facts there that you apparently do not know.
CRoadwarrior 11 months ago
Comment removed
bornest1 11 months ago
PTL Everyone!! The champ is here! I've been busy pastoring. I been gone for a while! Friend I have also been to Semitary! Again check out my videos! No one still have righty divided. Remember Semitary will mess you up! Some things come From the HOLY GHOST! I got this teaching from the SPIRIT! READ HEB 13:7,17 LEARN DOMA GIFTS(GREEK) and get back to me RULING GIFTS! PEACE!!
bornest1 11 months ago
@bornest1 Sorry, but I am not in "semintary," but seminary. There is a difference. There are good schools that will "mess you up," and there are better ones that will keep you FROM messing up. You claim no one has rightly divided, yet you have not backed up the claim, either here or in your videos. The Spirit who gave us Scripture in Greek will not contradict what the Greek reveals on this issue. The Greek word "Doma" refers to gifts just as other words do, with no significant difference.
CRoadwarrior 11 months ago
@CRoadwarrior Please Pray on This Bro!
1 Timothy 2:12-13 (Amplified Bible) 12I allow no woman to teach( over an Assembly) or to have authority(Taking authority by 5fold Doma Gifts Gifts of RuleHEB13:7,17) over men; she is to remain in quietness and keep silence [in religious assemblies]. This scripture does not apply to a Wife. Bad exegesis. This was universal to all churches. Question When a Women is called to 5fold Doma gifts can she have & can Usurp Authority by the power of here calling?
bornest1 11 months ago
@CRoadwarrior
Any one that claims to be a Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher have proclaim to have God Authority to preach. People don't know that 5fold gifts comes with Usurping of taking Authority. A women or a man saying they are a preacher of 5fold takes Authority by there calling whether MARRIED OR NOT. This scripture in 2Tim 2:12-13 has nothing to do with marriage, but 5fold authority given by God where what EVE did, has disquaified ALL WOMEN FROM LEADERSHIP IN THE CHURCH!!
bornest1 11 months ago
listen to the definition
disqualified (someone) ineligible for an office or activity because of an offense.
Because Eve was caught in the Transgression all Women married or Not is ineligible to function in a OFFICE( 5fold Leadership) because of the offense. READ PLEASE! 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but [the] woman who was deceived and deluded and fell into transgression. This is what Paul was telling the Young Bishop of Ephesus, so much he says to him in the............
bornest1 11 months ago
@bornest1 That makes absolutely no sense. BOTH Adam and Eve sinned. So by your argument, men ALSO should be disqualified from offices. In fact, Adam's sin was greater in the sense that he was told directly by God not to eat of the tree, yet he listened to his wife and still sinned. Even more, he was THERE when the serpent was tempting her, and did not correct her. He was there but silent.
CRoadwarrior 11 months ago
@bornest1
O MY BROTHER! PLEASE I have to go to BIBLE STUDY. I wish you could come and learn the Word! Yes you are correct both had sin! But EVE SIN BECAUSE OF PRIDE and walk in the SIN (Transgression). READ 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. DECEIVED BY WHAT IS THE QUESTION THE DEVIL. AGAIN WOMEN ARE AGAIN BEING DECEIVED BY THE DEVIL THROUGH PRIDE....TAKE OFFICES OF LEADERSHIP IN THE CHURCH AND DECEIVED BY THE SPIRIT OF ERROR.
bornest1 11 months ago
@bornest1 You can go to Bible study, but I'm sure you're not studying NT Greek, as I will be later tonight. The Bible does not say anything about "pride" being part of Eve's sin. She added to God's word ("nor shall you touch it" in Gen. 3:3) and THAT is how satan tricked her. God never said anything about touching it and dying in 2:17. As I said in my series, I'd rather listen to a woman who knows the Word well, than a man who doesn't know what he's talking about.
CRoadwarrior 11 months ago
cont ........HE SAYS 1 Timothy 3:1This is a true saying, if a man(Male gender) desire the office of a bishop, he(MAN) desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife. A HUSBAND IS A MAN from male gender! Consider the OFFICE OF A BISHOP-Overseer, RULING ELDER. REMEMBER OFFICES COME WITH AUTHORITY..READ HEB 13:1717Obey them that have the rule over you, submit yourselves. Bishops/ other 5offices according to the scripture has Authority for submission of ALL men.
bornest1 11 months ago
@bornest1 You see, this is the problem in not studying the Greek. In 1 Tim. 3:1, there is NO Greek word for "male" in the passage. What IS there is a pronoun that happens to be in the masculine for grammatical agreement purposes, but what's interesting is that this kind of pronoun can be EITHER masculine or feminine. Why is this important? Because there are pronouns that are exclusively masculine. But the Spirit did not choose one of those. Again, there were female prophets.
CRoadwarrior 11 months ago
@bornest1 We know a husband is male. However, this is another weak argument that ignores other Scripture. The passage does NOT say only women can be elders. What you and others do is infer from "husband of one wife" that a male only can be an elder, but that's not what the text says. If that's the case, then no single men can be elders (vs 2). If that's the case, then no men without kids can be elders (vs 4). Yet we have single and childless elders.
CRoadwarrior 11 months ago
@bornest1 What I hear from you is traditional teaching handed down to you without any detailed study. All your arguments come from a certain school of traditional thought on this issue, not from your own personal and detailed study of the Greek language. Again, I suggest you study more deeply and start with my article.
CRoadwarrior 11 months ago
THE Champ is HERE!! SE my videos please! You got this from theology school! But the Champ is here! Bless you brother!
bornest1 11 months ago
@bornest1 No, actually I got my understanding from study, and very detailed study in the original Greek.
CRoadwarrior 11 months ago
@palmer8112 Oh really? And on what basis do you make such a vacuous claim?
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Croadwarrior, I was hoping you could help me with something. Does the "word" Elohim in Genesis 1:1 refer to the trinity view of God or the unity of the one person God and His attributes? I see a lot of scholarly sources going to the Hebrew language to either prove trinity or the unity view, would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
cubed07 1 year ago
read the context not just one verse----For Adam was first formed,
then Eve.
ncbookz 1 year ago
@ncbookz I did. In fact, I even went into the original Greek of the passages in question. Who was formed first is not an issue, since animals were formed before both Adam and Eve.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior ok thanks, how did you reconcile being the "husband of one wife" ? oh and the part where his wife must be sober minded also
ncbookz 1 year ago
@ncbookz You are speaking of a different passage than the ones I address in my series. I will address the "husband of one wife" passage in another series. But that is not the same as saying "women cannot preach." You cannot take inferences too far, and that's what people do. Being "sober minded" does not mean "be silent" or "you cannot preach or teach." People need to read more carefully and study more deeply.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Of the original 54 men chosen to translate the King James Bible, 47 finished the over 7 year project, which was governed by very strict rules of translation. The translators were scholarly men who were experts in the biblical languages. Dr. Henry M. Morris, President of the Institute for Creation Research, said of these men, "It is almost certain that no group of Bible scholars before or since has ever been as thoroughly fit for their task as was the King James Translation Team."
052333roger 1 year ago
@052333roger While all that may be fine and good, it still does not address the central issues I presented in my series. The KJV is good, but it is by no means the best translation from the originals. And the fact remains that most translations cannot convey the original accurately because of translation issues you cannot understand unless you actually study the languages. Now you can trust these translators if you wish, but I prefer to go back to the originals for myself.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
If you read the rest of the sentence in 1 Tim 11, Paul is clearly speaking of ALL WOMEN. This is universal and theological. The scripture proves this when it gives the reasons why; "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived". In other words men and women were made DIFFERENTLY for different purposes. Why would you choose to believe the interpretation of your "Dr. Z" above all the interpretations throughout all church history.
052333roger 1 year ago
@052333roger If you had studied this issue more thoroughly throughout church history and interpretation, and paid attention to the facts presented in this series, you would know better. I clearly show that from the time of Luther, this passage was seen as husband/wife specific. It cannot be speaking of all women because the context does not allow for this, and the Greek words used in that context do not. I suggest you pay closer attention and do more research.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@052333roger You are giving me rhetoric you've heard over the years, not what Scripture actually says. The "reason" you state is not a "reason." Animals were made before both Adam and Eve, but that mere fact does not give them any greater authority to teach or preach. So that "reason" does not hold up logically. "Dr. Z" is backed up by centuries of scholarship in the original Greek, which I suggest you study.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Do you think that you are greater than the apostle Paul which spoke under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, you are trying to change the spiritual meaning to meet your own misunderstanding, believe the bible for what it is.
TheUnknownApostle 1 year ago
@TheUnknownApostle The Bible was not originally written in English, and therefore it becomes necessary to investigate what the original Greek has to say. It's not about being "greater" or lesser than Paul but understanding more clearly what Paul said. You simply have not studied this beyond the English translation level and think you know what you haven't studied in detail. So what I suggest you do is watch and learn.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior I kind of like you man, but I know you still decieved! You kind of touched my heart with your silly wisdom, therefore I hope Jesus touch your and open your eyes. I love you...
TheUnknownApostle 1 year ago
@TheUnknownApostle Interesting words, but you still need to study beyond the King James Version, otherwise you will never learn the deeper things of God found in the originals.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
You are a heretic!
TheUnknownApostle 1 year ago
@TheUnknownApostle No, I am not. You have not studied this issue with any depth from the original language.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
You are a heretic, professing to be wise but you are a fool! I've studied a bible over 27 years, and I came to the conclusion that you have to have the Holy Ghost to understand the scripture, your understanding is nature, You need to ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Ghost, and pray for God's understanding.
TheUnknownApostle 1 year ago
@TheUnknownApostle Again, no I am not . You would know this if you paid any serious attention to my videos and my statement of faith on my website. Sure, you need the Holy Spirit, BUT you also need accurate knowledge based on serious study of the Bible in the original languages. All the prayer in the world will not teach you Hebrew and Greek. That takes STUDY under normal circumstances.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Dude you are a hickory nut! Women cannot preach or be the head of any Church of Yah!
Again you have no Holy spirit to discern scripture! You are blinded by your pagan christianity! Dude you cant talk! You dont know what you are talking about!
But hey everyone can have an opinion even if it is wrong!
hebrewjisrael 1 year ago
@hebrewjisrael Oh really? So when God called and used many women from Old to New Testaments, He was also a "hickory nut"? I guess Yah made a mistake speaking through Deborah in Judges and her husband should have told her to shut up. lol. Before talking about who has or has not the Holy Spirit, you better make sure YOU have what you claim others don't. Your task is to PROVE me wrong using valid evidence and arguments, not just merely assert it. One thing is easy, the other is not.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior Lets try this again. Deborah was a judge. She shared judgeship with Barak. Deborah did not preach! Any women that Yah used in the old testament didnt ordain them to preach!
There was never a woman high priest in the old testament! The high priest came from the SONS of Aaron. God has order and he does things in order. In the new testament the office of a Bishop is clear. HE must be blameless and the HUSBAND of ONE WIFE!
hebrewjisrael 1 year ago
@hebrewjisrael @hebrewjisrael Deborah was a judge AND a prophetess. And don't tell me a prophet does not preach. That's nonsense. The argument that there was never a woman priest in the OT is no valid argument, since a prophet is one who speaks God's word, which is basically a form of preaching or proclaiming. These word games will not work with me. There is no Greek word for "office" in the text of 1 Tim., and the text does not exclude women directly but only as people make inference.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Check the context, it gives the reason for silence. Admittedly, this speaks of man and wife but also man and woman. It has to with who was deceived and I believe, who is more prone to being deceived today.
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Tim 2:13-14
Enoch2 1 year ago
@Enoch2 I know the context and wrote a quite extensive paper on the topic. First of all, the "silence" is not complete silence as in not saying a word. Second, as I pointed out from the Greek, if Paul wanted us to get the understanding that women in general were being referred to, he could have used a different Greek word. Most of the cults today were started by MEN, not women. So I cannot buy the idea that women are more prone to being deceived.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
I think women shouldnt be heads of churches because the men NEED TO! if women take over certain things, men WONT DO THEM AND get lazy(dont forget Adam was PASSIVE with Eve and the serpent--he should have said don't)--also many men believe in evolution more than women and so-called atheism--if too many preachers are women, it would be a disaster for the church at large..even boys without dads need to have male tutors for school IMO
49jubilee 1 year ago
@49jubilee This is not about women taking over. It's about whether or not God has called or does call women to preach the Gospel. And from Old to New Testament, God has indeed used women to send forth his message. Women have unique and needed gifts that God can and does use.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
I think women shouldnt preach because the men NEED TO! because if women take over certain things, men WONT DO THEM AND get lazy--also many men believe in evolution more than women and so-called atheism--if too many preachers are women, it would be a disaster for the church at large..even boys without dads need to have male tutors for school IMO
49jubilee 1 year ago
@49jubilee You must realize that it's now about who "needs" to preach. God can use a donkey to rebuke a prophet, and a woman to rebuke a man, if needed. God has used women in the past and does today. That much is clear from the Bible.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
1 Timothy 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Man ALL these cats on You tube are FALSE. Read ur bible, trust in Christ and get in to a Interdependent Fundamental Baptist Church!
Bible clearly states a woman's place is in the home and for a woman to be over a man is a sin and will cause that man to be in error period. You can't Jump over right to do WRONG!
narcissusnostalgia 1 year ago
@narcissusnostalgia I can see you did not watch this series and you also disregarded the facts pointed out from the Greek. Paul was NOT saying all women in general cannot teach, and he was speaking about mere "authority."
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@narcissusnostalgia talking about God or for God is not asurping authority over anyone. there is a misconception of what is authority and what isnt authority, what is pastoring, discussing, teaching, prophesying, etc.. God uses women too , just in different ways. our position in life is to be at home, but our godly position is not limited to just shutting up and not speaking for or about God.
therootofallprobs 1 year ago
Wow this is explosive!! I was offered a potential teaching possition in my church and I was apprehencive because of 1 tim and 1 corinthians and I had just ask the lord to give me a clear answer b/c I really wanted to do it but didnt want to displease the lord. I had just got done trying to decifer these scriptures and prayed about it when I came upon this!!! Not even 20 minutes ago I asked for a clear answer about his true feeling on this! Thank God cause I LOVE to teach!:)
poo0115104 1 year ago
@poo0115104 Be sure to read my website article because it goes into much more detail than the videos. I'm glad I could be of service. Just remember to STUDY well so that you rightly interpret the Word, because it's very important.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Then you have Isaiah 3:12 women rule over men and men are in err cause of it. When The Most Hight told Aaron to take his sons and go preach he had two daughters why didn't The Most High send them as well. Titus 2:3-5 is the role of the women. Revelations 2:20-23 Jezebel Prophetess teaching the servents. Look what happens to her. The King James is the most accurate Bible.
kandiburbslammed 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed You are in error, not knowing the Scriptures accurately or the facts about how we received them. The King James is NOT the most accurate Bible. It's filled with 300 year old English that sometimes causes more problems that it solves. No Scripture came down originally in English. If you don't know that, you need to do some basic study of Bible origins.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior If I'm in err prove it with scripture. I know The Bible was not in english. English is one of the youngest language. Paleo Hebrew,Greek, then English. It's the most accurate translation. 2 Tim. 3:14 Correct me with scripture not with your logic. 1 Thessaionians 5:21 Prove there's a female Preacher or Disciple in the. What have I shown for you to say I don't know the scriptures Aaron had Daugthers Why didn't The Most High send them to preach as well.
kandiburbslammed 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed The only way you can make a VALID claim that the King James Bible is the "most accurate" translation is if you actually know both Hebrew and Greek, and can then compare the KJV with the originals. If you cannot do that, you don't KNOW. You assume. And there's nothing wrong with good, sound logic, which God has given us our minds to use. What was Deborah? A female prophet, preaching God's word and judging ALL Israel (Judges 4).
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior Prophet WARNS the people of something The Most High is going to do. So Jonah was a preacher as well? HA we was only a prophet when he went to Nineveh he didn't teach he warn the same as Derborah in Judges 4. Judge gives punishment not the same as preacher teaches the bible. The Most High gave us Dominion over the anaimal and fowls of the air. I am no fool. The order I was speaking of is man is the head of women as in 1 Corinthians 11:3. your logic is philosophy Colossian 2:8
kandiburbslammed 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed Prophets may warn, but they also preach and teach at times. The key point is that they receive word from God and speak it. ALL of them, male or female, do that. A warning is a message being spoken. And in the Greek of 1 Corin. 11:3, the word for "man" is not the generic anthropos, but the word for HUSBAND known as "andros." You quote Scripture but do not understand what you quote and believe doctrines having no real understanding of what you believe.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed So before you go off the deep end here, I suggest you view the entire series, and THEN tell me if you've learned anything and posit your questions or comments.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior Show me a female disciple that taught like Yashayah(Jesus), Paul, John, Matthew and so on. That preached not prophesize two different things.
kandiburbslammed 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed That is not an argument. You are avoiding the facts laid out in the videos. Jesus ALSO chose Jewish disciples. Are you now going to argue that only Jews can teach? And to play the game that preaching and prophesying are two different things is also no valid argument.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior Paul did state Jew first Gentile Second. and NO it's not for a just for a Jew to teach. Don't digree Original topic CAN WOMEN PREACH. No. I know this is no argument cause you can't come up with a vaild female teacher in the bible. Don't give me prophets their not the same> I have given ample amount of scriptures were the Man is THE head of a women. It even states in the bible when a women leads man in the church the man is in err cause of it. I done with this point proven. Shalom
kandiburbslammed 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed You miss my point. Jesus also chose JEWS, so to follow your irrational argument, only Jews can teach. But that doesn't work. Neither does it work that because the apostles were all men that this must mean only men can teach. Nonsense. I've given you Scripture, but you ignore or play games to maintain our belief system. I don't have time for that. Watch the videos and learn. And no, the text speaks of the HUSBAND being the head of his wife, not "man" generically.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed So, since you have a problem paying attention to facts presented in the video and continue repeating the same refuted and answered claims, we have nothing further to discuss until you've actually taken the time to view the whole series to understand the points I've made. But so far, you have only proved that you have a viewpoint based on English mistranslations and you don't care what the original Greek says or implies.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed And whether or not God chose to send Aaron's daughters to preach is not germaine to this issue. The issue is, did God ever have women doing the exact same thing as the male prophets who spoke His words to the people. The unambiguous answer to that question is YES.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
FALSE FALSE FALSE What about the Traits of a bishop 1 Timothy 3:1 Traits of a bishop Husband of one wife. Then why DIdn't "Jesus" have any female disciples? 2 Timothy 2:11-14 is plain english then he gives you the reason why a women can't. Eve represents all women she was deceived and fell into transgression. Woman can be Prophets there were 5 of them and one was a judge. Then you have Numbers 27:15-18 Set a man over the congregation. Then you have Ephesians 4:8,11 where he gave men gives.
kandiburbslammed 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed You cannot just claim something is false, especially when you have not done any serious research into the original language of the text. The so-called traits of a bishop are not followed literally, since we do have single bishops who have no kids. 2 Tim. 11-14 may have been TRANSLATED into "plain English," but it did not come down to us from God originally in English. This too many people forget. Eve was a married woman, and the context is husband/wife relationship.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior The Bible is truth right every jot and tittle. I know Eve was married. Then you have the virtuous woman Proverbs 31:10 I didn't see teach the word in there. I'm not a he-man woman hater. But AHAYAH had order in how wanted us to live. 1 Corinthians 11:3 Shalom
kandiburbslammed 1 year ago
@kandiburbslammed Yes, the Bible is truth. There are many things not in Proverbs 31:10, like the facts of Judges 4 and Deborah's role as a female prophet and judge. Animals were created before even Adam and Eve. What does that "order" prove? Should animals rule over us now? I don't think so.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
give that crap back to the whiteman. Blackwomen were in the worlds first priesthoods in Ancient Kush & Egypt. why not now in christianity,islam or judaism.
garychldress74 1 year ago
@garychldress74 Did you even listen to the video, or are you making assumptions?
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
I'd like the sunglasses more if you wore them outside. Like a normal person.
FreeCapital 1 year ago
@FreeCapital But I'm cool like that so I can wear them whenever I want because I'm the warrior.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior
I see. Far be it for me to question a superhero.
Women can be preachers because God/Jesus never prohibits it. If you want to follow the Bible word for word, then you need to request every sister in the church to undue their braids and remove their jewelery, because Paul prohibits that as well. You either take the Bible into context, or you follow it to a "T" I will not follow the rule of man, even men of the Bible if it contradicts equality, period. Derive from that as you wish.
FreeCapital 1 year ago
@FreeCapital Superhero? Hardly. Following the Bible is not an all or nothing proposition as many suppose because they fail to understand the Bible holistically. Paul did NOT forbid the wearing of braids and jewelry. That is a misunderstanding of the text. Paul is emphasizing that women/wives should strive to dress modestly and have an inner life pleasing to God (1 Tim. 2:9; 1 Peter 3:3,4). This is not about "equality" but right living.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
I like the music you played at first, whose the artist?
cubed07 1 year ago
@cubed07 An ad does appear on the video with the name of the song and the artist. The group name is Virtue.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Oh and it should be noted that I do support women teachers and pastors. It's awkward when a church says that women can't teach scriptures to men but yet women are the vast majority of sunday school teachers, teaching young men or little men.
cubed07 1 year ago
@cubed07 Thanks for your input. Women have much to offer, but they must be careful to study and know Scripture well just like men.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
Continued.....The OP made came to the same conclusions using hermaneutics and I'm simply showing how I came to the conclusions without using hermaneutics but understanding the verse in context, God Bless.
cubed07 1 year ago
@cubed07 Proper hermeneutics teaches you to keep things in context. My argument focused on the original language of the text.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
The English translations is only misleading if you want it to be and don't take the time to read the verses in context. Never forget the three most important rules in sound bibical interpretation they are: 1 Context, 2 Context, and 3 Context. All this hermaneutical study is unnecessary when dealing with 99 percent of difficulities in the Bible from my experience. Lets take 1 Cor 14:34-35, ...it says women should ask of their husbands? Hmm, what do you call women who have husbands.....WIVES.
cubed07 1 year ago
@cubed07 Hermeneutics involves context, so you cannot say hermeneutical study is unnecessary when the study itself of things in context speaks of hermeneutics.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago
@CRoadwarrior It can be but 99 percent of the time the context is either in the verse itself or in the verses around it. But the main thing I'm against is people saying the translators were wrong or they used the wrong words and thus you conclude the english translations to be misleading. I believe you can understand the english version without hermaneutics. God Bless.
cubed07 1 year ago
@cubed07 What you must realize is that sometimes the translators ARE wrong. And the only way to know that is by doing research beyond the superficial level. And you cannot understand ANY literature without applying hermeneutics, whether you realize it or not. Hermeneutics and study of the original languages becomes essential in Bible study because we were not raised in Hebrew and Greek.
CRoadwarrior 1 year ago