I Think Hillary should get all the Michigan delegates and her share of the Florida delegates. It is Obama's fault his name was not on the ballot in Michigan. Do not disenfranchise the people of Michigan and Florida. The right to vote belongs to the people not the DNC.
Every other single candidate agreed with the DNC, including Hillary, that Florida and Michigan wouldn't count. Every other candidate kept their namke off the ballot in Michigan. Hillary saw that and decided to take advantage of it. Also last time I checked a real election doesn't have just one name on the ballot.
Olivemike81, last time I checked, if a candidate CHOSES (based on NO RULE, but a calculated choice to cow-tow to Iowa and NH, not to mention Howard Dean) to remove his or her name from a ballot, it then won't be there, but that doesn't render the election "unreal". It just means that the candidate needs to grow a pair and leave his name on the ballot next time.
What's the deal with you Hillary supporters and your inability to process factual information? It's not Obama's fault his name wasn't on the ballot. Ask yourself this. Why wasn't Edwards' name on the ballot either? They *all* (including Hillary) agreed that the delegates of Florida and Michigan would not be counted.
Search for "Hillary accepted & signed the DNC rules barring MI & FL!" on youtube. For once, do the research yourself and stop swallowing every hook Hillary throws your way!
BigYellow9999, yes, it actually WAS Obama's fault that his name was not on the ballot. You see, he CHOSE to remove it. Originally, it was there. btw, I'm not a big Hillary supporter (another assumption you make). I wanted Gore to run. Failing that, I was for Edwards. Hill & BO are the last 2 (w/the exception of Gravel) I would want, but between the 2, I prefer Hill. Know this: I would be screaming just as loudly re the FL & MI delegates no matter who had won, just as I was before a vote was cast
53mileswestofvenus, there's this thing called "rules". Obama followed them *perfectly*. Again, do your research. They said the votes would not count, so his name was taken off. Now, Hillary wants to change those rules. And, surprise, surprise, she's only started mentioning it after super Tuesday...when she fell behind.
Who cares who took his name off? The DNC RULES (I know, some have a hard time following simple rules) said that MI & FL would not count! Why would you vote for a liar & a cheat?
There's no rule saying that any candidate had to remove his/her name from the ballot. Dean pressured them. Barack should have stood up 2 Dean, as Dean was obviously off the reservation, evidenced by the fact that he went against the rules by yanking away ALL of FL & MI's delegates instead of half & pressuring the candidates to sign that daft pledge not to campaign in FL & MI. Had Dean simply halved the delegates, U & I would be unified to win back the presidency, that's the sad part. Peace out.
P.S. Shoot! My last entry (starting: "There's no rule saying that any candidate had to remove his/her name from the ballot. Dean pressured them.") was a response to BigYellow9999 and I always forget that youtube often doesn't post responses under the post you are responding to, so just letting everyone know who it was meant for, fyi. Sorry for any confusion. I need to remember to start responses with the person's name...sorry!
The mere fact that you're discussing how MI and FL's vote can count shows that you want to reward people who can't follow rules! These two state knew exactly what the rules were, but chose to ignore them! It's called being "an enabling"!
You're like the parents of children who do horrible things who still defend their children. You then quickly understand how th kid got the way they did!
I BET YOU that FL and MI don't pull this early voting crap again! Let them learn their hard lesson!
I had a couple of typos. Being "an enabler" is what I meant to say. Also, "state" should have been made plural. Hate making those kinds of mistakes. Typing too fast.
Isn't it ironic that the Republican Controlled State Legislator in Florida voted to up their election date, KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THIS WOULD CREATE HAVOC TO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY. All the while you have Rush Limbaugh Republicans voting in Democratic primaries to SCREW UP the system. HOW FUCKIN UN-AMERICAN CAN YOU GET????? The real threat to our Homeland Security, Values and beliefs is not Al Quaida, rather Right Wing Facist Neo-Con Republicans!!
I find it interesting that at the time that Florida "voted" that Edwards was still in the race. Did Edwards, like Obama, follow the rules and it was only hillary that was a calculating sleaze?
Sorry, but YOU are the only one stuck on 'repeat' here. By YOUR view of primary elections, the state that marks their calendar LAST - gets to go FIRST. That's patently ridiculous. Take your punishment, you KNEW it was coming, EVERYBODY knew it was coming, walk it off, play thru the pain, then, sit down, relax & have a big steamin' cup of get-the-f0ck-over-yourself already - AND if Sen. Obama was actin' like a beedy-eyed chickenfu<ker - then HE'D be wrong!
Yes, 53milesfromvenus, Sen. "No Drama" Obama (soon to be President "No Shock" Barack) DID, in point of fact, CHOOSE to take his own name off of the ballot - because, as Senator Hillary "Dubya" McClinton said WAY BACK THEN; "this vote is clearly not going to count for anything". ='/
53miles - When GOOD PEOPLE are the main players, (unlike the last decade or so) bad decisions, like obviously wrong-headed, pro-Bush, pro-war votes & being publicly fooled by the dumbest GOPer to ever swear on the US Constitution to uphold & defend the King James Bible - well, those things tend to MATTER. Also, AGREEMENTS matter. PLAYING BY THE PRE-DETERMINED RULES MATTERS. Keeping your word matters. Not whining about the easily-forseen results of your own decisions - THAT MATTERS.
53miles - Actions have real consequences when the game is played FAIRLY. Michigan & Florida's dirty-dealin' DLC pseudo-crats (a slightly smarter, sneakier version of the neo-con-comical Bush-publicans) well, they just f0cked-up. They screwed the pooch & peed in their own whiskey. They called DNC Chairman Howard Dean's bluff - that was a really, REALLY bad bet - and they lost.
53miles - Learn from YOUR MISTAKES & admit TO YOURSELF that Sen. Obama did THE HONORABLE THING in taking his name off the ballot. (because, c'mon, seriously, you HAVE to know that's true) Stop using those lame-@$s, Bush-League half-wit Machievellian rationalizations to try to spin Sen. Obama's REAL VIRTUE - fair play - into an IMAGINED VICE, like crappy situation-specific, conveniently pro-Clintonian position-straddling, I rEaLLy hATe thAt Sh|t.
rok100, Obama made a choice to remove his name. I don't believe it was the right one, you do believe it was. Either way, there was no rule saying he had to. And as I stated to someone else, I'd be shouting just as loudly over the delegate sitch no matter who had won, just as I was before a single vote was cast in either state. Dean screwed up. The punishment didn't fit the crime & is misdirected at the wrong people (voters).
*Attention: 53mileswestofvenus* - All you can do NOW is throw the dirty-dealin' DLCers in YOUR STATE out - that's your correct course for a fair redress of your (admittedly *very real*) grievances, throw those tragically 'moderate' (meaning "semi-conservative") DLCers out of their orifices & throw 'em out of the streets too, throw them all the way back into the gutters where they belong.
Howard Dean IS THE DNC CHAIRMAN, proposed, drafted, backed, nominated, elected and supported by We The Democratic Party People, NOT by the DLC's big-money corporate "power-brokers" - and if WE ALL AGREE that there MUST be SOME RULES, then Michigan & (to a slightly lesser degree) Florida has to agree to abide by them. <~ period.
Stop blaming the GOP, Floridians, the voters in Florida picked THOSE SQUIRRELS too !... (comment continued below)
Duuuuuude (rok100): 1. Dean wasn't elected by this lifelong, loyal Dem. He was installed NOT by the members, by the very power clique U are irked by, and 2.) if U R so into rules, shouldn't Dean have just halved the delegates as the rules say he should?
The Clintonian DLC Democrats in Florida and Michigan said 'screw the rules', we'll do whatever we want. Now they think that they can just say "by punishing us for our decision, you'll REALLY just be hurting the voters!" That's EXACTLY like a gangster saying "don't put me in prison for my crimes, which I obviously DID commit, Your Honor, don't send me away because my gang will miss me."
She lied. She agreed to the rules of the DNC which said to both Florida AND Michigan to not hold their primaries BEFORE February 5th or they will loose both the votes and delegates. Both states said, "Screw you, we understand what's at stake, & we're doing it anyway". Now Hillary needs these to count so she wants to change the rules in the middle of game. Sick, & shameless! The people of FLA and Mich should feel disenfranchised, & their state party leaders did it and should be held accountable!
One final thing to everyone in this discussion, because I am very saddened by something: This whole argument seems to be breaking down along lines of which candidate people support, when really it has NOTHING to do with Clinton or Obama. I have been outraged about Dean's decision from the moment he made it! At that time, all the candidates were on all the ballots and the election was wide open. For me, and for anyone concerned about voting rights, fairness and democracy, the issue is clear.
53miles, no, the argument (in this case) is who has the ability to follow simple rules. You keep talking about voting rights and fairness, when what you really need to be talking about is RULES! I guess all of the polls are correct, Clinton supporters are uneducated while Obama supporters are typically college grads.
This isn't rocket science. You move up your primary, you lose your votes? Notice that this only became an issue after super tuesday, when (surprise, surprise) she fell behind.
Typical of Obamabots, U totally ignore his calls for moving beyond labels & towards unity & launch in2 snap judgements/assumptions about people, so let me set you straight: 1. I have a college degree. 2. Howard Dean ignored the precious rules by yanking away ALL FL & MI delegates versus the 1/2 that the rules recommend in this case, thus causing this situation. 3. This has been an issue for me since Howard Dean did it, before a single vote was cast, as it is about VOTERS not candidates.
Note/P.S.: My previous comment that starts "Typical of Obamabots..." was meant as a reply to "BigYellow9999", but did not appear under his/her post as a reply, FYI. That is who it was directed at. And now that I have a few more characters left to comment with, let me add that the assumptions made by most Obamabots I run across on the net are truly astounding for people following a campaign supposedly based on moving beyond labels, etc. WOW. Scary.
why is it that in Florida more republicans turned out to vote than any other state? In every other state democrats turn out more than two to one over republicans.
Of course hillary wants to cry and change the rules now. She had plenty of time to speak out for disenfranchised voters in these states before she got desperate, but she didnt. hillary went against party rules in both cases, probably got more republican votes than democrat, and now she wants thm to count.
I won't vote for a candidate who will do anything to win. I'd vote for a candidate who has important values that he or she always follows. Making sure the rules are followed should be one of those values.
P.S. 1. So that this sitch never happens again, we need to move to a fair system of rotating, regional primaries. 2. To the Obama supporters who whine that Barack wasn't on the ballot in MI, guess whose choice that was? OBAMA'S! So, since he CHOSE to take his name off the ballot, I guess he didn't care about the fact that the delegates might end up getting seated *shrug*. Oh well. It was a fair election! And as for neither candidate campaigning in FL/MI, that was their choice, too. Again: fair!
MI and FL broke the rules, the DNC made their ruling and that was that. Obama duly followed the ruling of his party. If you are as upset as you seem to be, your vitriol should be directed at the state chairperson that moved the date forward.
It doesn't matter at this point, though. Hillary would have to have the FL/MI votes counted, *and* also win by massive margins from here on out to secure the nomination. Hopefully she'll have the grace to concede, or she'll be doing McCain's work for him.
Impulse9tucson, my anger is indeed directed at the DNC (Howard Dean and Donna Brazile especially). I think it is fair to "punish" states for breaking the rule (although the rule itself is inherently unfair and we should eventually move to a fair system of rotating, regional primaries), but the action taken by the DNC was draconian and self-destructive. Talk about circling up the firing squad, they (the DNC) have managed to do it.
Thank you so much for posting this! Hillary really sets the facts straight. As a Florida Democrat, I think I speak for all 4 million of us (if I may be so bold!) when I say that we are sick of being disenfranchised in elections! It was bad enough when it was Katherine Harris & the FOBs (friends of Bush) doing it, but our own party? This is too much, and so asanine and self-destructive to the party, not to mention totally unfair! The delegates of both FL & MI should be seated! Count our votes!!!
*sigh* Once again, I must repeat: Obama was not on the MI ballot because he chose to remove himself from same. Hillary had nothing to do with it. It was his choice. Now he can live with the consequences of his actions. I know that Obama supporters don't understand the concept of "actions", you only understand flowery, empty language, so let me clue you in: you remove your name from the ballot, your name is then not on the ballot. Strange how that works, isn't it? Man, Obama supporters are daft.
Hitlery wants to count votes when she's the only candidate on a ballot. It's been done before in Hitler's Germany, Pinochet's Chile, Nutjob's N. Korea, Stalin's USSR, Marcos' Phillipines, Hillary's Michigan & Hillary's Florida. Say no to the 28 year occupation of the executive branch by the Clinton/Bush crime syndicate. It's time for a change, a big change.
Um, as I just posted in response to your fellow hypocritical, unfair, idiotic Obama supporter "impulse9tucson", Obama was not on the MI ballot because he CHOSE to remove his name from same. No one forced him. It was a free and fair election and the votes should be counted. It's the Obama supporters who want to disenfranchise millions of voters thus creating a regime of the type you reference in your ignorant and ill-informed comment. Obama and the herd of clueless sheep following him are SCARY.
Hitlery wants to count votes when she's the only candidate on a ballot. It's been done before in Hitler's Germany, Pinochet's Chile, Nutjob's N. Korea, Stalin's USSR, Marcos' Phillipines, Hillary's Michigan & Hillary's Florida. Say no to the 28 year occupation of the executive branch by the Clinton/Bush crime syndicate. It's time for a change, a big change AND that change is coming today. Adios to Hellary's wide ass and dumbass smirk. Adios weasel bitch.
You already posted your exact same nasty comments earlier. I guess if you don't have substantive argument/points on your side, you have to resort to repetion and name-calling. Well, no matter how many nasty names you call Hillary, it won't hide or distract from the fact that your post is completely inaccurate. There is nothing fascistic about wanting votes to count. As for Barack not being on the MI ballot, I'll say it again, slowly, so that you can get it this time: he CHOSE to remove his name.
dayglowgreendoor, don't you see that, by using nasty, personally-attacking language towards Hillary, you are not helping your argument? Why not just stick to substantive points and making them in a civil way? I'm sure that the decent, respectful folks among the Obama supporters don't appreciate the way people like you reflect on them.
God, don't you understand that I don't give a rat's ass what any of you think? Hillary would kill you and your entire family in a gruesome public beheading to accomplish her goals. It's about power and the privileged elite holding onto their grip on the government. It's just another Bush or Clinton cowtowwing to scumbags who deserve to burn in hell. So just dig a hole and have someone cover you with dirt or maybe just shut the fuck up.
As for you, dayglowgreendoor, you demonstrate anew w/each successive post that you are a very disrespectful, attacking, nasty person, so how can anyone have a civil, substantive discussion or debate with you even if they wanted to? I feel sorry for any decent Obama supporters out there, as they must wonder if people will conclude that all Obama supporters are as nasty & disrespectful as you are. Obviously, you are incapable of a substantive dialog, so you resort to namecalling & attacks. NICE.
She's down to two kinds of supporters: very old ladies who want the last glass ceiling broken (Florida) and broke labor people who don't have time (or money) to watch YouTube and see why people don't like her (Michigan).
Of course, she didn't mention that Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan... or that she only beat "Uncommitted" by 15 points and actually *lost* to "Uncommitted" in two counties.
Obama was not on the ballot in Michigan because Obama CHOSE to remove himself from the ballot in Michigan, with full knowledge that the delegate issue was not settled and that the delegates might ultimately end up getting seated. So, it was a FAIR election and too bad to all the Obama supporters whose hypocritical politics of "inclusion" aim to disenfranchise millions of voters in their own party. Is that the "change we can believe in"? Disgusting!
Yet another Obamabot insulting all Dems who don't support him & making unsubstantiated assumptions while taking about unity & moving beyond labels. LOVING IT (not!). FYI, I am a liberal, college-educated Dem who sees right through the fluff-filled, sloganeering Obama. Also, once more, w/feeling: Obama was not on MI's ballot because HE TOOK HIS NAME OFF to pander to IA & NH. Oh well. Too bad, so sad. Man: Obamabots are simply unreal.
Wait... what? I'm not even sure what I wrote that would get that reaction. The last time I wrote here, I basically said that this is much more the DNC's doing than Obama's.
If anything, Obama's been the only major public figure after NC and IN who's been saying she should stay as long as she likes.
Finally, it looks like this will be settled by the end of May, according to the DNC.
Out of curiosity, if they're seated and she still loses, will you still be upset?
impulse9tucson, to answer your question, my outrage over the FL & MI delegate situation has NOTHING to do with which candidate I support. I've been upset since Dean issued his draconian decision, when all candidates were on all ballots and no votes were cast yet. I won't be upset if: 1.) all delegates are seated, based on election results; or 2.) half the delegates are seated, based on election results. But if they are seated based on an arbitrary 50/50 split? MAJOR upsetness.
if you allow them to go eriler then every year another state wants to go befor anothe so the start date gets erlar and eriler untill we are voteing in the next presdent the day the curnt one is going into ofice
I will always love Hillary Clinton.
OBAMA 08! McBush Never!
mazaradiflash 3 years ago
DNC rules can not supersede the people's right to vote. The DNC rules are bullshit!
Fuck the DNC, fuck you, and fuck Obama!
Ataxicabdriver 3 years ago
Hillary said Michigan and Florida shouldn't count. What a fucking liar.
olivemike81 3 years ago
I Think Hillary should get all the Michigan delegates and her share of the Florida delegates. It is Obama's fault his name was not on the ballot in Michigan. Do not disenfranchise the people of Michigan and Florida. The right to vote belongs to the people not the DNC.
Ataxicabdriver 3 years ago
Every other single candidate agreed with the DNC, including Hillary, that Florida and Michigan wouldn't count. Every other candidate kept their namke off the ballot in Michigan. Hillary saw that and decided to take advantage of it. Also last time I checked a real election doesn't have just one name on the ballot.
olivemike81 3 years ago
Olivemike81, last time I checked, if a candidate CHOSES (based on NO RULE, but a calculated choice to cow-tow to Iowa and NH, not to mention Howard Dean) to remove his or her name from a ballot, it then won't be there, but that doesn't render the election "unreal". It just means that the candidate needs to grow a pair and leave his name on the ballot next time.
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
What's the deal with you Hillary supporters and your inability to process factual information? It's not Obama's fault his name wasn't on the ballot. Ask yourself this. Why wasn't Edwards' name on the ballot either? They *all* (including Hillary) agreed that the delegates of Florida and Michigan would not be counted.
Search for "Hillary accepted & signed the DNC rules barring MI & FL!" on youtube. For once, do the research yourself and stop swallowing every hook Hillary throws your way!
BigYellow9999 3 years ago
BigYellow9999, yes, it actually WAS Obama's fault that his name was not on the ballot. You see, he CHOSE to remove it. Originally, it was there. btw, I'm not a big Hillary supporter (another assumption you make). I wanted Gore to run. Failing that, I was for Edwards. Hill & BO are the last 2 (w/the exception of Gravel) I would want, but between the 2, I prefer Hill. Know this: I would be screaming just as loudly re the FL & MI delegates no matter who had won, just as I was before a vote was cast
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
53mileswestofvenus, there's this thing called "rules". Obama followed them *perfectly*. Again, do your research. They said the votes would not count, so his name was taken off. Now, Hillary wants to change those rules. And, surprise, surprise, she's only started mentioning it after super Tuesday...when she fell behind.
Who cares who took his name off? The DNC RULES (I know, some have a hard time following simple rules) said that MI & FL would not count! Why would you vote for a liar & a cheat?
BigYellow9999 3 years ago
There's no rule saying that any candidate had to remove his/her name from the ballot. Dean pressured them. Barack should have stood up 2 Dean, as Dean was obviously off the reservation, evidenced by the fact that he went against the rules by yanking away ALL of FL & MI's delegates instead of half & pressuring the candidates to sign that daft pledge not to campaign in FL & MI. Had Dean simply halved the delegates, U & I would be unified to win back the presidency, that's the sad part. Peace out.
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
P.S. Shoot! My last entry (starting: "There's no rule saying that any candidate had to remove his/her name from the ballot. Dean pressured them.") was a response to BigYellow9999 and I always forget that youtube often doesn't post responses under the post you are responding to, so just letting everyone know who it was meant for, fyi. Sorry for any confusion. I need to remember to start responses with the person's name...sorry!
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
The mere fact that you're discussing how MI and FL's vote can count shows that you want to reward people who can't follow rules! These two state knew exactly what the rules were, but chose to ignore them! It's called being "an enabling"!
You're like the parents of children who do horrible things who still defend their children. You then quickly understand how th kid got the way they did!
I BET YOU that FL and MI don't pull this early voting crap again! Let them learn their hard lesson!
BigYellow9999 3 years ago
I had a couple of typos. Being "an enabler" is what I meant to say. Also, "state" should have been made plural. Hate making those kinds of mistakes. Typing too fast.
BigYellow9999 3 years ago
Say no to Shitlery
dayglowgreendoor 3 years ago
Isn't it ironic that the Republican Controlled State Legislator in Florida voted to up their election date, KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THIS WOULD CREATE HAVOC TO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY. All the while you have Rush Limbaugh Republicans voting in Democratic primaries to SCREW UP the system. HOW FUCKIN UN-AMERICAN CAN YOU GET????? The real threat to our Homeland Security, Values and beliefs is not Al Quaida, rather Right Wing Facist Neo-Con Republicans!!
renijohn012270 3 years ago
I find it interesting that at the time that Florida "voted" that Edwards was still in the race. Did Edwards, like Obama, follow the rules and it was only hillary that was a calculating sleaze?
mizilus 4 years ago
*** Attention: 53mileswestofvenus ***
Sorry, but YOU are the only one stuck on 'repeat' here. By YOUR view of primary elections, the state that marks their calendar LAST - gets to go FIRST. That's patently ridiculous. Take your punishment, you KNEW it was coming, EVERYBODY knew it was coming, walk it off, play thru the pain, then, sit down, relax & have a big steamin' cup of get-the-f0ck-over-yourself already - AND if Sen. Obama was actin' like a beedy-eyed chickenfu<ker - then HE'D be wrong!
rok100 4 years ago
Yes, 53milesfromvenus, Sen. "No Drama" Obama (soon to be President "No Shock" Barack) DID, in point of fact, CHOOSE to take his own name off of the ballot - because, as Senator Hillary "Dubya" McClinton said WAY BACK THEN; "this vote is clearly not going to count for anything". ='/
rok100 4 years ago
53miles - When GOOD PEOPLE are the main players, (unlike the last decade or so) bad decisions, like obviously wrong-headed, pro-Bush, pro-war votes & being publicly fooled by the dumbest GOPer to ever swear on the US Constitution to uphold & defend the King James Bible - well, those things tend to MATTER. Also, AGREEMENTS matter. PLAYING BY THE PRE-DETERMINED RULES MATTERS. Keeping your word matters. Not whining about the easily-forseen results of your own decisions - THAT MATTERS.
rok100 4 years ago
53miles - Actions have real consequences when the game is played FAIRLY. Michigan & Florida's dirty-dealin' DLC pseudo-crats (a slightly smarter, sneakier version of the neo-con-comical Bush-publicans) well, they just f0cked-up. They screwed the pooch & peed in their own whiskey. They called DNC Chairman Howard Dean's bluff - that was a really, REALLY bad bet - and they lost.
rok100 4 years ago
53miles - Learn from YOUR MISTAKES & admit TO YOURSELF that Sen. Obama did THE HONORABLE THING in taking his name off the ballot. (because, c'mon, seriously, you HAVE to know that's true) Stop using those lame-@$s, Bush-League half-wit Machievellian rationalizations to try to spin Sen. Obama's REAL VIRTUE - fair play - into an IMAGINED VICE, like crappy situation-specific, conveniently pro-Clintonian position-straddling, I rEaLLy hATe thAt Sh|t.
Molly Ivins:
I
am
NOT
supporting
Hillary.
rok100 4 years ago
rok100, Obama made a choice to remove his name. I don't believe it was the right one, you do believe it was. Either way, there was no rule saying he had to. And as I stated to someone else, I'd be shouting just as loudly over the delegate sitch no matter who had won, just as I was before a single vote was cast in either state. Dean screwed up. The punishment didn't fit the crime & is misdirected at the wrong people (voters).
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
*Attention: 53mileswestofvenus* - All you can do NOW is throw the dirty-dealin' DLCers in YOUR STATE out - that's your correct course for a fair redress of your (admittedly *very real*) grievances, throw those tragically 'moderate' (meaning "semi-conservative") DLCers out of their orifices & throw 'em out of the streets too, throw them all the way back into the gutters where they belong.
rok100 4 years ago
Howard Dean IS THE DNC CHAIRMAN, proposed, drafted, backed, nominated, elected and supported by We The Democratic Party People, NOT by the DLC's big-money corporate "power-brokers" - and if WE ALL AGREE that there MUST be SOME RULES, then Michigan & (to a slightly lesser degree) Florida has to agree to abide by them. <~ period.
Stop blaming the GOP, Floridians, the voters in Florida picked THOSE SQUIRRELS too !... (comment continued below)
rok100 4 years ago
Duuuuuude (rok100): 1. Dean wasn't elected by this lifelong, loyal Dem. He was installed NOT by the members, by the very power clique U are irked by, and 2.) if U R so into rules, shouldn't Dean have just halved the delegates as the rules say he should?
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
The Clintonian DLC Democrats in Florida and Michigan said 'screw the rules', we'll do whatever we want. Now they think that they can just say "by punishing us for our decision, you'll REALLY just be hurting the voters!" That's EXACTLY like a gangster saying "don't put me in prison for my crimes, which I obviously DID commit, Your Honor, don't send me away because my gang will miss me."
rok100 4 years ago
She lied. She agreed to the rules of the DNC which said to both Florida AND Michigan to not hold their primaries BEFORE February 5th or they will loose both the votes and delegates. Both states said, "Screw you, we understand what's at stake, & we're doing it anyway". Now Hillary needs these to count so she wants to change the rules in the middle of game. Sick, & shameless! The people of FLA and Mich should feel disenfranchised, & their state party leaders did it and should be held accountable!
Bolgernow 4 years ago
One final thing to everyone in this discussion, because I am very saddened by something: This whole argument seems to be breaking down along lines of which candidate people support, when really it has NOTHING to do with Clinton or Obama. I have been outraged about Dean's decision from the moment he made it! At that time, all the candidates were on all the ballots and the election was wide open. For me, and for anyone concerned about voting rights, fairness and democracy, the issue is clear.
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
53miles, no, the argument (in this case) is who has the ability to follow simple rules. You keep talking about voting rights and fairness, when what you really need to be talking about is RULES! I guess all of the polls are correct, Clinton supporters are uneducated while Obama supporters are typically college grads.
This isn't rocket science. You move up your primary, you lose your votes? Notice that this only became an issue after super tuesday, when (surprise, surprise) she fell behind.
BigYellow9999 3 years ago
Typical of Obamabots, U totally ignore his calls for moving beyond labels & towards unity & launch in2 snap judgements/assumptions about people, so let me set you straight: 1. I have a college degree. 2. Howard Dean ignored the precious rules by yanking away ALL FL & MI delegates versus the 1/2 that the rules recommend in this case, thus causing this situation. 3. This has been an issue for me since Howard Dean did it, before a single vote was cast, as it is about VOTERS not candidates.
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
Note/P.S.: My previous comment that starts "Typical of Obamabots..." was meant as a reply to "BigYellow9999", but did not appear under his/her post as a reply, FYI. That is who it was directed at. And now that I have a few more characters left to comment with, let me add that the assumptions made by most Obamabots I run across on the net are truly astounding for people following a campaign supposedly based on moving beyond labels, etc. WOW. Scary.
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
why is it that in Florida more republicans turned out to vote than any other state? In every other state democrats turn out more than two to one over republicans.
Of course hillary wants to cry and change the rules now. She had plenty of time to speak out for disenfranchised voters in these states before she got desperate, but she didnt. hillary went against party rules in both cases, probably got more republican votes than democrat, and now she wants thm to count.
mizilus 4 years ago
I won't vote for a candidate who will do anything to win. I'd vote for a candidate who has important values that he or she always follows. Making sure the rules are followed should be one of those values.
seatmix 4 years ago
MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA you can't follow rules. If this cunt fights for rule breakers then she cannot be trusted
now3000 4 years ago
she freaking campigned there!!people you can't trust this bich! she is a pathological liar and manipulative bitch.
chrisok115 4 years ago
P.S. 1. So that this sitch never happens again, we need to move to a fair system of rotating, regional primaries. 2. To the Obama supporters who whine that Barack wasn't on the ballot in MI, guess whose choice that was? OBAMA'S! So, since he CHOSE to take his name off the ballot, I guess he didn't care about the fact that the delegates might end up getting seated *shrug*. Oh well. It was a fair election! And as for neither candidate campaigning in FL/MI, that was their choice, too. Again: fair!
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
MI and FL broke the rules, the DNC made their ruling and that was that. Obama duly followed the ruling of his party. If you are as upset as you seem to be, your vitriol should be directed at the state chairperson that moved the date forward.
It doesn't matter at this point, though. Hillary would have to have the FL/MI votes counted, *and* also win by massive margins from here on out to secure the nomination. Hopefully she'll have the grace to concede, or she'll be doing McCain's work for him.
impulse9tucson 4 years ago 2
Impulse9tucson, my anger is indeed directed at the DNC (Howard Dean and Donna Brazile especially). I think it is fair to "punish" states for breaking the rule (although the rule itself is inherently unfair and we should eventually move to a fair system of rotating, regional primaries), but the action taken by the DNC was draconian and self-destructive. Talk about circling up the firing squad, they (the DNC) have managed to do it.
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
Thank you so much for posting this! Hillary really sets the facts straight. As a Florida Democrat, I think I speak for all 4 million of us (if I may be so bold!) when I say that we are sick of being disenfranchised in elections! It was bad enough when it was Katherine Harris & the FOBs (friends of Bush) doing it, but our own party? This is too much, and so asanine and self-destructive to the party, not to mention totally unfair! The delegates of both FL & MI should be seated! Count our votes!!!
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
She was the only name on the ballot in Michigan. That's the only kind of democracy Hillary supports.
papipablo 4 years ago
*sigh* Once again, I must repeat: Obama was not on the MI ballot because he chose to remove himself from same. Hillary had nothing to do with it. It was his choice. Now he can live with the consequences of his actions. I know that Obama supporters don't understand the concept of "actions", you only understand flowery, empty language, so let me clue you in: you remove your name from the ballot, your name is then not on the ballot. Strange how that works, isn't it? Man, Obama supporters are daft.
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
Yeah who needs hope when we have a shrill, vindictive liar.
papipablo 4 years ago
Hitlery wants to count votes when she's the only candidate on a ballot. It's been done before in Hitler's Germany, Pinochet's Chile, Nutjob's N. Korea, Stalin's USSR, Marcos' Phillipines, Hillary's Michigan & Hillary's Florida. Say no to the 28 year occupation of the executive branch by the Clinton/Bush crime syndicate. It's time for a change, a big change.
dayglowgreendoor 4 years ago
Um, as I just posted in response to your fellow hypocritical, unfair, idiotic Obama supporter "impulse9tucson", Obama was not on the MI ballot because he CHOSE to remove his name from same. No one forced him. It was a free and fair election and the votes should be counted. It's the Obama supporters who want to disenfranchise millions of voters thus creating a regime of the type you reference in your ignorant and ill-informed comment. Obama and the herd of clueless sheep following him are SCARY.
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
Hitlery wants to count votes when she's the only candidate on a ballot. It's been done before in Hitler's Germany, Pinochet's Chile, Nutjob's N. Korea, Stalin's USSR, Marcos' Phillipines, Hillary's Michigan & Hillary's Florida. Say no to the 28 year occupation of the executive branch by the Clinton/Bush crime syndicate. It's time for a change, a big change AND that change is coming today. Adios to Hellary's wide ass and dumbass smirk. Adios weasel bitch.
dayglowgreendoor 4 years ago
You already posted your exact same nasty comments earlier. I guess if you don't have substantive argument/points on your side, you have to resort to repetion and name-calling. Well, no matter how many nasty names you call Hillary, it won't hide or distract from the fact that your post is completely inaccurate. There is nothing fascistic about wanting votes to count. As for Barack not being on the MI ballot, I'll say it again, slowly, so that you can get it this time: he CHOSE to remove his name.
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
Note: fyi, the above was supposed to appear as a reply under the nasty post of "dayglowgreendoor", just below this.
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
Wrong! I added more about her wide white ass and being a weasel-bitch.
dayglowgreendoor 4 years ago
dayglowgreendoor, don't you see that, by using nasty, personally-attacking language towards Hillary, you are not helping your argument? Why not just stick to substantive points and making them in a civil way? I'm sure that the decent, respectful folks among the Obama supporters don't appreciate the way people like you reflect on them.
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
God, don't you understand that I don't give a rat's ass what any of you think? Hillary would kill you and your entire family in a gruesome public beheading to accomplish her goals. It's about power and the privileged elite holding onto their grip on the government. It's just another Bush or Clinton cowtowwing to scumbags who deserve to burn in hell. So just dig a hole and have someone cover you with dirt or maybe just shut the fuck up.
dayglowgreendoor 4 years ago
As for you, dayglowgreendoor, you demonstrate anew w/each successive post that you are a very disrespectful, attacking, nasty person, so how can anyone have a civil, substantive discussion or debate with you even if they wanted to? I feel sorry for any decent Obama supporters out there, as they must wonder if people will conclude that all Obama supporters are as nasty & disrespectful as you are. Obviously, you are incapable of a substantive dialog, so you resort to namecalling & attacks. NICE.
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
I'm being a piece of shit.....like Hellary.
dayglowgreendoor 4 years ago
She's down to two kinds of supporters: very old ladies who want the last glass ceiling broken (Florida) and broke labor people who don't have time (or money) to watch YouTube and see why people don't like her (Michigan).
Of course, she didn't mention that Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan... or that she only beat "Uncommitted" by 15 points and actually *lost* to "Uncommitted" in two counties.
impulse9tucson 4 years ago
Obama was not on the ballot in Michigan because Obama CHOSE to remove himself from the ballot in Michigan, with full knowledge that the delegate issue was not settled and that the delegates might ultimately end up getting seated. So, it was a FAIR election and too bad to all the Obama supporters whose hypocritical politics of "inclusion" aim to disenfranchise millions of voters in their own party. Is that the "change we can believe in"? Disgusting!
53mileswestofvenus 4 years ago
Yet another Obamabot insulting all Dems who don't support him & making unsubstantiated assumptions while taking about unity & moving beyond labels. LOVING IT (not!). FYI, I am a liberal, college-educated Dem who sees right through the fluff-filled, sloganeering Obama. Also, once more, w/feeling: Obama was not on MI's ballot because HE TOOK HIS NAME OFF to pander to IA & NH. Oh well. Too bad, so sad. Man: Obamabots are simply unreal.
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
P.S. Previous comment was meant for "Impulse9Tucson", fyi.
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
Wait... what? I'm not even sure what I wrote that would get that reaction. The last time I wrote here, I basically said that this is much more the DNC's doing than Obama's.
If anything, Obama's been the only major public figure after NC and IN who's been saying she should stay as long as she likes.
Finally, it looks like this will be settled by the end of May, according to the DNC.
Out of curiosity, if they're seated and she still loses, will you still be upset?
impulse9tucson 3 years ago
impulse9tucson, to answer your question, my outrage over the FL & MI delegate situation has NOTHING to do with which candidate I support. I've been upset since Dean issued his draconian decision, when all candidates were on all ballots and no votes were cast yet. I won't be upset if: 1.) all delegates are seated, based on election results; or 2.) half the delegates are seated, based on election results. But if they are seated based on an arbitrary 50/50 split? MAJOR upsetness.
53mileswestofvenus 3 years ago
Desperation mode...mince your words...nice try...if they do anything they should run two other primaries all over again.
ytMarkcg 4 years ago 2
if you allow them to go eriler then every year another state wants to go befor anothe so the start date gets erlar and eriler untill we are voteing in the next presdent the day the curnt one is going into ofice
theendofit 4 years ago
Stop lying Hillary. See this is why you are losing. Such a fake bitch.
bermyshot123 4 years ago 5