i got crazy news yall IF YOU LOVE THIS SHOW DOG FIGHTS THERES A NEW 2012 MOVIE OUT THERE CALLED FORTRESS AND ITS ALL ABOUT THE AIREIAL COMBAT THROUGH THE EYES OF A B-17 BOMBER CREW N IT HAS THE EXACT SAME CGI AS IN THIS SHOW SO I GOOGLE'D THE 2 N SURE ENOUGH A COMPANY CALLED RADICAL 3D ON THERE HOMEPAGE THEY SAID THEY'VE DONE WORK 4 HISTORY DOG FIGHTS RED TAILS N THAT FILM FORTRESS GOOGLE ZMOVIES N YOULL GET THE MOVIE SITE WHERE ALL U GOTTA DO IS TYPE IN FORTRESS AND THEY HAVE THE FULL MOVIE
I read zimmer's biography. In that mission, not all the 19 mgs were used at the same time. Some were kept on the floor so that, if one jammed, could be quickly replaced
@TheGohSC the two waist guns are (on a standard B-17) single barrel guns which are converted to double barrel machine guns. The bombardier gets two extra guns, and the pilot has two fixed machine guns.
@felixu95 Thanks You :-). It looks like Old 666 was very heavily armed for that deadly mapping mission with a total of 19 guns onboard against the 17 fearsome Mitsubishi "Zero". Let say if not because of the shortage of fuel of the Zero and the battle went on - Will Old 666 last the battle OR will old 666 be shot down eventually?
B17 Flying Fortress Vs B29 Super Fortress - Which one is better?
they spent 45 mins with the engines at full power! its amazing that after the fight the plane actually had enough fuel to fly and land in a friendly base
my god i salute these men omfg this is just like wow even holly wood wouldnt even consider making this into a movie cuz its that unbeilieavable these men are totaly badasss. (:
If I was one of those zekes and I saw those two guys go down in the first round I would have been thinking "ok, let's rethink this plan...nope, I don't feel like fighting this guy"
old 666 carried 19mgs only in this mission because it was a mapping mission and they didn't have to worry about the weight of the bombs. Also not all the 19mgs were being used at the same time. some were on the floor of the aircraft so that if one mg jammed, it could quickly be replaced
Zimmer's military career would make a classic war movie. I read his biography and the guy flew the B17 like no one else. He did things with the aircraft that military thought to be impossible. Even the way he recruited his crew was surreal. Reminded me a bit that movie "The Dirty Dozen". His men were known as "the eager beavers" because they volunteered for the most dangerous missions
Every kid in every School should watch this! These old boys should never be forgotten! Sport men and Actors or even Pop stars! They aint no Hero's! These are the real deal!
amazingly armed aircraft extremely courages moves and a very skilled crew im amazed i just find it ironic how the that specific plane always gets shot up on everyflight and its tail number is 666
What you think about a P-40 fighter surrounded in the sky in a dogfight against a entire Zero wing? An american pilot from AVG,Lt.Dallas Klinger,once fought against entire Lae Wing in your heavy P-40 and survive to tell his history. He came back to his base with your plane with a lot of holes,but shotdown a Zero fighter. After the war,talking about this episode,japanese Zero ace Saburo Sakai said that never had saw a P-40 maneouver that way,full of admiration about that american pilot skills.
Later model B17s had the chin turret mounted 50 cals under the bomb aimers position, so there was some extra firepower on them but Old 666 did not have the chin turret so had the extra guns in the bomb aimers position. I too would bedonladson would take the extra waist guns as well and if I was designing the B17 would have uprated the engines and mounted an extra turret near to the waist position as well. But it was still an incredible piece of flying
The sad truth is, aircraft engineers of the time figured that if they pulled out the machineguns and the gunners, the 17 could have flown faster and higher, which would have given it better survivability against German fighters. But the bomber crews wanted to shoot back so the guns stayed. So oddly enough, less guns, not more, were the answer.
no no, your a fucking moron, faster or not, the bombers would have caught, then shot down any 17, what they needed to do was go the way of old 666, 19 .50s instead of 13. lots more bullets
and b, b 17s were the toughest airplane of all time, ever seen memphis belle, the memphos belle was in good shape at the end of its mission compared to some planes that made it back, missing wings and tails and shit. b 17s are practiaclly chevy trucks
@Hollowminder I think you mean missing parts of wings. No aircraft could fly with out its wings. Funny I always thought the Liberator looked like a chevy suburban that learned how to fly ;)
@Historystartsnow it was brave of LT Sarnoski to go back to his gun while wounded he is a hero of the crew of that B17 by the way you like history too my dad calls me a history encyclopedia
@camman44 yes sir, to be mortally wounded but still have the courage to crawl back up to your gun and defend your squad. he was probably thinking, "they're depending on me and if this is my time to die then I'll give them hell before I do!" I believe it was said by an American hero, "Ask not to have lived long, but to have lived well!"
One of the most unusual stories involving the use of a YB-40 was to counter the efforts of an Italian pilot, Guido Rossi, who had begun to offensively fly a captured P-38 Lightning fighter that had been forced to land, low on fuel, over Sardinia in the spring of 1943.
If this B17 was so effective against fighters (of course the pilots skill is a factor I know) then why wernt more B17's armed with extra machine guns?? This shouldve been an example for the Air Force
That's a very good point. However, the Japanese pilots would find a way around CERTAIN defenses such as the machine guns in the front. I would definitely carry the extra waist guns.
@Historystartsnow hows this for an idea, have a fixed gun on the tail of a fighter. So even if an enemy is on your tail, maybe if your lucky, a stray bullet may kill your enemy on your tail. Kinda like the ME-110 night fighters. some had a gun fixed on top to shoot straight up
@newsupersammyspider too much extra weight (the mg and the eventual gunner, place, ammo, seat etc) would have reduced manuevrability and hence make the fighter slower and less aerodynamic, which in the air against other fighters means more likely to die.
There did build gunships for the ETO, B17s with more MG than the bombers, and were not regulated to carry bombs..needless they were not a sucess against the cannon/rocket armed Luftwaffe..it wasn't til escorts that B17s survivablity increased. Also a B17E is nothing like a F or G model..they have very few MGs to begin with..the RAF used most of their Es in Costal command.
YB-40 B-17 Gunship were used by the 472nd Bomb group... They quickly found that the the weight of the extra guns, armor, and extra ammunition reduced the speed enough that the YB-40 could not maintain formation with the B-17s on the way back once they dropped their bombload.
well the problem mostly is the fact the B-17 was a strategic long range bomber not a gunship like a Spooky or some other C-130 with heavy guns. Old 666 though was heavily outfitted at a cost of no payload, just crew and guns
B17 was mostly used on western front in Europe. You are forgetting this. Japanese planes didn't have ANY armor. Machine gun was enough to blow it up. Also, 6 more heavy machine guns have some weight. This B17 didnt have to carry any bombload. The ones in Europe did... In any case kudos to all the crew...
@boedonaldson well the problem was the B17 was outfitted to be a bomber not a brawling. 4 Wright R-1820's gave it power to lift nearly a ton worth of ordinance and usually made strategic strike packages in the Pacific Theater and Germany. she was NEVER made to stand up to a flight of fighters which makes this even more extraordinary. Air Force did learn from this though and thats why you see modified C-130 transports made into gunships. Spookys (Marines) Specters (Air Force)
They tried some as an experiment. Doubling up the waist guns and some more in the nose but the additional weight of the added guns (add their ammo) had to be "deducted" from the bomb or fuel (or a mix of both) load on the plane (Less bombs, less damage done less fuel, less range) and add to that after flying a number of mission with those planes the add guns didn't appear to make that much difference.
@boedonaldson It is simple. More firepower=more weight it means that you need to leave 2-3 bombs back home. They didn't have bombs, only a camera so they could take more guns and ammo.
@serdel5000 Actually, they went on bombing missions with the extra firepower too. I guess they still managed to make it to their target and back, even with the extra weight.
@boedonaldson The extra machine guns (and ammo) would have meant extra weight - which reduces bomb load or fuel load. In a bomber, bomb load and fuel have to take priority. This mission was unusual because the B-17 was used in a photo recon role and hence no bomb load. That meant more weight can be devoted to defensive armaments.
@boedonaldson the B-17 was rarely used in the pacific theatre, was more commonly used in europe against german fighters german fighters are alot more armoured and better armed, where as the japanese fighters were very vulnerable to damage and caught fire easily. the b-17 was thought to be able to hold its own against fighter attacks until the loses in europe showed they needed fighter escort, and any more guns on board would have greatly diminished payload. the jap planes here were easy targets
I don't agree that" the jap planes here were easy targets". True that they didn't have any armour and that a B17 could shoot them down, but that doesn't mean that it was a easy task. Besides they were 17 of them and any one of them could have shot old 666. Even for a B17, a few well placed 20mm shells would be enough to bring it down. All the merit goes to the crew of the B17 for its unconventional way of flying/fighting.
@boedonaldson simple, the WEIGHT of the extra machine guns and their ammo. The primary mission of the B-17 was to drop bombs. Add more guns and ammo and you have to reduce the tonnage of bombs. As it was, the B-17 was heavily burdened and it's bomb load really wasn't all that impressive because of the guns/crew. The Mosquito carried a bomb load almost as heavy as the B-17, but they were used differently.
@boedonaldson They were not that effective as you may think. In the European theater the allied forces lost over 500,000 men on bomber missions. As for the Pacific theater I'm not too sure on the effectiveness.
@boedonaldson It's also the wieght that counts. If they mount more machine guns, they can carry less bombs. They just needed to make photos, so no bombs were needed then, and they could mount extra guns.
Besides, it's not designed to dogfight, the guns are just defense.
i got crazy news yall IF YOU LOVE THIS SHOW DOG FIGHTS THERES A NEW 2012 MOVIE OUT THERE CALLED FORTRESS AND ITS ALL ABOUT THE AIREIAL COMBAT THROUGH THE EYES OF A B-17 BOMBER CREW N IT HAS THE EXACT SAME CGI AS IN THIS SHOW SO I GOOGLE'D THE 2 N SURE ENOUGH A COMPANY CALLED RADICAL 3D ON THERE HOMEPAGE THEY SAID THEY'VE DONE WORK 4 HISTORY DOG FIGHTS RED TAILS N THAT FILM FORTRESS GOOGLE ZMOVIES N YOULL GET THE MOVIE SITE WHERE ALL U GOTTA DO IS TYPE IN FORTRESS AND THEY HAVE THE FULL MOVIE
NBVFTERER445 6 days ago
i love this show i just wish it would be on more offten.Whos with me??
pilotmanerger56789 1 month ago
the haters are those guys who were the crew of the ki-26
LimbagoAeronautics1 1 month ago
cool....brutally badass
jerocortidor 2 months ago
19 machine guns? Put that many on a fighter!
Blahmarrow 3 months ago
I read zimmer's biography. In that mission, not all the 19 mgs were used at the same time. Some were kept on the floor so that, if one jammed, could be quickly replaced
nimitz1943 3 months ago
Comment removed
MostwantedLover1 3 months ago
Hello
Just curious: Where are the extra 6 guns being located? 2 added to the waist guns, 1 added to the nose. How about the remaining 3 guns?
Also can the dorsal guns (top and bottom of the plane) be rotated to cover a range of -180 to + 180 degree?
Can the Tail Guns be rotated as well?
TheGohSC 4 months ago
@TheGohSC the two waist guns are (on a standard B-17) single barrel guns which are converted to double barrel machine guns. The bombardier gets two extra guns, and the pilot has two fixed machine guns.
felixu95 3 months ago
@felixu95 Thanks You :-). It looks like Old 666 was very heavily armed for that deadly mapping mission with a total of 19 guns onboard against the 17 fearsome Mitsubishi "Zero". Let say if not because of the shortage of fuel of the Zero and the battle went on - Will Old 666 last the battle OR will old 666 be shot down eventually?
B17 Flying Fortress Vs B29 Super Fortress - Which one is better?
TheGohSC 3 months ago
they spent 45 mins with the engines at full power! its amazing that after the fight the plane actually had enough fuel to fly and land in a friendly base
nimitz1943 6 months ago
wow, 666!
stumbleafter 6 months ago
Fuck video games, I want to place ANY COD console playing fucktard, put them in THIS situation, in REAL LIFE, they wouldn't last a second.
haters123 7 months ago
my god i salute these men omfg this is just like wow even holly wood wouldnt even consider making this into a movie cuz its that unbeilieavable these men are totaly badasss. (:
hmavenger1 8 months ago
The 1 Hater is an Ex-Zero Pilot
a6m3reisen 8 months ago
Was the crew bigger as the b 17 had more guns?
Usdownz 8 months ago
@Usdownz even in the most armed B17s, the crew was the same number
nimitz1943 8 months ago
now this is what i call a flying fortress
JayJay1990fromwiehl 8 months ago
The Boeing YB-40 had roughly the same armament.
ernstpua 9 months ago
If I was one of those zekes and I saw those two guys go down in the first round I would have been thinking "ok, let's rethink this plan...nope, I don't feel like fighting this guy"
nikolai60 9 months ago
I have watched this episode well over 20 times. I watch it every time i need inspiration...
Joe Sarnosky is my hero
ermir4444 9 months ago
@ermir4444 He's my HERO too. I'm glad to be a Sarnosky also.
jmes2babes 5 months ago
this story really seems like modern American propaganda, and seems very exaggerated,
Akira89M 9 months ago
@Akira89M not propaganda. japanese archives validate the authenticity of this mission, the way it's described in this documentary
nimitz1943 9 months ago
@nimitz1943 then I will search for that, and see if thats true,
Akira89M 9 months ago
old 666 carried 19mgs only in this mission because it was a mapping mission and they didn't have to worry about the weight of the bombs. Also not all the 19mgs were being used at the same time. some were on the floor of the aircraft so that if one mg jammed, it could quickly be replaced
nimitz1943 10 months ago
Zimmer's military career would make a classic war movie. I read his biography and the guy flew the B17 like no one else. He did things with the aircraft that military thought to be impossible. Even the way he recruited his crew was surreal. Reminded me a bit that movie "The Dirty Dozen". His men were known as "the eager beavers" because they volunteered for the most dangerous missions
nimitz1943 10 months ago
Every kid in every School should watch this! These old boys should never be forgotten! Sport men and Actors or even Pop stars! They aint no Hero's! These are the real deal!
lupo0144 1 year ago 4
amazingly armed aircraft extremely courages moves and a very skilled crew im amazed i just find it ironic how the that specific plane always gets shot up on everyflight and its tail number is 666
sonofrock97 1 year ago
One fighter ok two well be fine 17, id crap my pants and jump
Davis4037 1 year ago 17
What you think about a P-40 fighter surrounded in the sky in a dogfight against a entire Zero wing? An american pilot from AVG,Lt.Dallas Klinger,once fought against entire Lae Wing in your heavy P-40 and survive to tell his history. He came back to his base with your plane with a lot of holes,but shotdown a Zero fighter. After the war,talking about this episode,japanese Zero ace Saburo Sakai said that never had saw a P-40 maneouver that way,full of admiration about that american pilot skills.
LeoAndRas 5 months ago
memphis belle!!
SuperWeng10 1 year ago
Later model B17s had the chin turret mounted 50 cals under the bomb aimers position, so there was some extra firepower on them but Old 666 did not have the chin turret so had the extra guns in the bomb aimers position. I too would bedonladson would take the extra waist guns as well and if I was designing the B17 would have uprated the engines and mounted an extra turret near to the waist position as well. But it was still an incredible piece of flying
IRLangmaid25 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This will make a good movie!
TheGroundedAviator 1 year ago
9:46 Somebody said he's gone. "I wanted to respond to that. I wanted to lift my and tell him... tell him he's full of s---..." xD
RandomLOLROFLMAO 1 year ago 17
666 story sounds like a movie. B17 The mission to hell.
Lobos222 1 year ago 2
8:44: "Lifting their siege of the Flying Fortress"
I see what you did there.
Eboreg2 1 year ago
Joe Sarnoskie you will be missed a hero giving his dying breath for his freinds that is a hero in my book.
ethanreipold88 1 year ago 2
Lol the old guy on the audio is awesome
RuflessRecords 1 year ago
I wonder why this B-17 was given the devil's number and came out lucky?
ironfalcon100 2 years ago
The sad truth is, aircraft engineers of the time figured that if they pulled out the machineguns and the gunners, the 17 could have flown faster and higher, which would have given it better survivability against German fighters. But the bomber crews wanted to shoot back so the guns stayed. So oddly enough, less guns, not more, were the answer.
themocaw 2 years ago
they were japenese aircraft
kf103 2 years ago
no no, your a fucking moron, faster or not, the bombers would have caught, then shot down any 17, what they needed to do was go the way of old 666, 19 .50s instead of 13. lots more bullets
Hollowminder 2 years ago
and b, b 17s were the toughest airplane of all time, ever seen memphis belle, the memphos belle was in good shape at the end of its mission compared to some planes that made it back, missing wings and tails and shit. b 17s are practiaclly chevy trucks
Hollowminder 2 years ago
dude i think u mean british lancasters they where huge n heavy bombers i belive
adiintel 2 years ago
@Hollowminder I think you mean missing parts of wings. No aircraft could fly with out its wings. Funny I always thought the Liberator looked like a chevy suburban that learned how to fly ;)
roaklin 1 year ago
@themocaw
or thats the theory...
YankeeFitz 2 years ago
Well that's a load of crap...
skot66 1 year ago
Was Zimmers gun movable?
whitesox889 2 years ago
No it was fixed
Historystartsnow 2 years ago
@Historystartsnow it was brave of LT Sarnoski to go back to his gun while wounded he is a hero of the crew of that B17 by the way you like history too my dad calls me a history encyclopedia
camman44 1 year ago
@camman44 yes sir, to be mortally wounded but still have the courage to crawl back up to your gun and defend your squad. he was probably thinking, "they're depending on me and if this is my time to die then I'll give them hell before I do!" I believe it was said by an American hero, "Ask not to have lived long, but to have lived well!"
legendarytoyou 1 year ago
In this plane, for this dangerous mission was adapted a movable extra gun.
LeoAndRas 5 months ago
One of the most unusual stories involving the use of a YB-40 was to counter the efforts of an Italian pilot, Guido Rossi, who had begun to offensively fly a captured P-38 Lightning fighter that had been forced to land, low on fuel, over Sardinia in the spring of 1943.
PanzerM 2 years ago
Comment removed
PanzerM 2 years ago
If this B17 was so effective against fighters (of course the pilots skill is a factor I know) then why wernt more B17's armed with extra machine guns?? This shouldve been an example for the Air Force
boedonaldson 2 years ago
That's a very good point. However, the Japanese pilots would find a way around CERTAIN defenses such as the machine guns in the front. I would definitely carry the extra waist guns.
Historystartsnow 2 years ago
@Historystartsnow hows this for an idea, have a fixed gun on the tail of a fighter. So even if an enemy is on your tail, maybe if your lucky, a stray bullet may kill your enemy on your tail. Kinda like the ME-110 night fighters. some had a gun fixed on top to shoot straight up
newsupersammyspider 1 year ago
@newsupersammyspider too much extra weight (the mg and the eventual gunner, place, ammo, seat etc) would have reduced manuevrability and hence make the fighter slower and less aerodynamic, which in the air against other fighters means more likely to die.
Fred111000 1 year ago
@Historystartsnow
the issue is always money
okami1101 5 months ago
@Historystartsnow that B17's live up its reputation being the Flying Fortress of the sky.
aker1993 4 months ago
There did build gunships for the ETO, B17s with more MG than the bombers, and were not regulated to carry bombs..needless they were not a sucess against the cannon/rocket armed Luftwaffe..it wasn't til escorts that B17s survivablity increased. Also a B17E is nothing like a F or G model..they have very few MGs to begin with..the RAF used most of their Es in Costal command.
PanzerM 2 years ago
YB-40 B-17 Gunship were used by the 472nd Bomb group... They quickly found that the the weight of the extra guns, armor, and extra ammunition reduced the speed enough that the YB-40 could not maintain formation with the B-17s on the way back once they dropped their bombload.
PanzerM 2 years ago
well the problem mostly is the fact the B-17 was a strategic long range bomber not a gunship like a Spooky or some other C-130 with heavy guns. Old 666 though was heavily outfitted at a cost of no payload, just crew and guns
legendarytoyou 2 years ago
B17 was mostly used on western front in Europe. You are forgetting this. Japanese planes didn't have ANY armor. Machine gun was enough to blow it up. Also, 6 more heavy machine guns have some weight. This B17 didnt have to carry any bombload. The ones in Europe did... In any case kudos to all the crew...
Shakhar01 2 years ago
B-17s also served in the PTO under the 20th Air Force.
ironfalcon100 2 years ago
@boedonaldson They tried it, look up the YB-40 project. Total failure.
roaklin 1 year ago
@boedonaldson well the problem was the B17 was outfitted to be a bomber not a brawling. 4 Wright R-1820's gave it power to lift nearly a ton worth of ordinance and usually made strategic strike packages in the Pacific Theater and Germany. she was NEVER made to stand up to a flight of fighters which makes this even more extraordinary. Air Force did learn from this though and thats why you see modified C-130 transports made into gunships. Spookys (Marines) Specters (Air Force)
legendarytoyou 1 year ago
@boedonaldson
They tried some as an experiment. Doubling up the waist guns and some more in the nose but the additional weight of the added guns (add their ammo) had to be "deducted" from the bomb or fuel (or a mix of both) load on the plane (Less bombs, less damage done less fuel, less range) and add to that after flying a number of mission with those planes the add guns didn't appear to make that much difference.
roadrodent1952 1 year ago
@boedonaldson It is simple. More firepower=more weight it means that you need to leave 2-3 bombs back home. They didn't have bombs, only a camera so they could take more guns and ammo.
serdel5000 1 year ago
@serdel5000 Actually, they went on bombing missions with the extra firepower too. I guess they still managed to make it to their target and back, even with the extra weight.
superyerfdog 1 year ago
@boedonaldson The extra machine guns (and ammo) would have meant extra weight - which reduces bomb load or fuel load. In a bomber, bomb load and fuel have to take priority. This mission was unusual because the B-17 was used in a photo recon role and hence no bomb load. That meant more weight can be devoted to defensive armaments.
williamlasl 1 year ago
@boedonaldson well...THIS b-17 diddnt have to carrie bombs...
FireXtheRipper 1 year ago
@boedonaldson I think it would add too much weight that it couldnt carry so much bombs
CoDmontagesvideos 1 year ago
@boedonaldson the B-17 was rarely used in the pacific theatre, was more commonly used in europe against german fighters german fighters are alot more armoured and better armed, where as the japanese fighters were very vulnerable to damage and caught fire easily. the b-17 was thought to be able to hold its own against fighter attacks until the loses in europe showed they needed fighter escort, and any more guns on board would have greatly diminished payload. the jap planes here were easy targets
speed150mph 10 months ago
I don't agree that" the jap planes here were easy targets". True that they didn't have any armour and that a B17 could shoot them down, but that doesn't mean that it was a easy task. Besides they were 17 of them and any one of them could have shot old 666. Even for a B17, a few well placed 20mm shells would be enough to bring it down. All the merit goes to the crew of the B17 for its unconventional way of flying/fighting.
nimitz1943 10 months ago
@boedonaldson simple, the WEIGHT of the extra machine guns and their ammo. The primary mission of the B-17 was to drop bombs. Add more guns and ammo and you have to reduce the tonnage of bombs. As it was, the B-17 was heavily burdened and it's bomb load really wasn't all that impressive because of the guns/crew. The Mosquito carried a bomb load almost as heavy as the B-17, but they were used differently.
Darthbelal 6 months ago
@boedonaldson They were not that effective as you may think. In the European theater the allied forces lost over 500,000 men on bomber missions. As for the Pacific theater I'm not too sure on the effectiveness.
SIRUS84 6 months ago
@boedonaldson It's also the wieght that counts. If they mount more machine guns, they can carry less bombs. They just needed to make photos, so no bombs were needed then, and they could mount extra guns.
Besides, it's not designed to dogfight, the guns are just defense.
oODarkownageOo 6 months ago
keep on making vids!
pythonblack465 2 years ago
this show is just awesome
DardoUltimate 2 years ago