Sounds like the police should not be allowed to have firearms at home -according to Helmke's reasoning. And, don't believe chiefs of police for statistics either, apparently.
This guy is an idiot. Not only is he pulling "facts" out of his ass, he is lying through his teeth. No one has addressed why Ireland's gun bans have failed, Britain's, or Germany's. Its culture that effects crime rate, not guns. Sweden has less gun laws than Britain, yet per capita Britain has more GUN crime than Sweden even with restricted guns ON AN ISLAND no less.
Does it really happen every day that someone finds a gun and accidently shoots themselves? I'm suspicious of this "fact." Anyone have any data?
Also, the "22x more likely that a gun is used against you or your family" than an attacker. I'm suspicious of this as well... and would bet they included suicides and discounted defensive use when you don't shoot someone.
And finally, if guns reduce crime, Israel should be the safest country in the world...and it's close if you rule out bombs...
All these gun control supporters fail to mention that criminals who are a part of gangs acquire their firearms from the black market. Guns which are imported from other countries, such as Mexico, Colombia etc... Its totally unfair that law abiding citizens are blamed for the increase of illegal guns. Also, the high rate of murders caused by firearms are again due to gang activity, seems like they're immune to this debate.
30,000 deaths is BS.....2009 FBI stats- 13,159 homicdes total in USA , of that slightly over 6,000 firearm related homicdes for 300 Million people. I dont see a problem.
The arbitration system we have has much more to do with the murder rate than firearms. If you only criminalize coercive acts and legalize all voluntary acts the crime rate would go down as much as is humanly possible.
Paul Helmke has been the best so far. The point of "If the proposition is true and guns reduce crime, America should be the safest country in the world" is very appropriate. I would like to see how the proposition would countervail the large number of gun related deaths in America due to its large amount of guns.
my god there is a lot of Gun-fanatics texting here. lol.
I like guns too but America has way too many, way too accessable, and barely any regulation on any of them. It makes common sense that the more guns we put in so many hands the most deaths we will have. Everyone here is assuming everyone who has a gu in there hands will be smart and responsible with it. WE don't live in that world anymore and the evidence is on the TV news every single day
So you are in favor of preventing law abiding people from obtaining defensive arms to prevent the off chance that one of these guns
***might*** be stolen?
It's ALREADY illegal for felons to own/obtain guns.
It's ALREADY illegal for the mentally ill to own/obtain guns.
The only thing you can do further is prevent the law abiding from owning guns. The reality is that criminals will just find another means of obtaining them. They do tend to ignore the law...
well that is my point, what you said, Criminals will find guns either way, but if we restrict gun ownership that would help. You, for example, yes you can own a gun and that is fine, but with restrictions, and honestly the restrictions you mentioned is just fine, but in America there are so many guns by far, its no wonder that criminals get them so easily. that's all I'm saying. The excessive manufacture of guns here is a huge part of the problem.
Criminals will steal guns from the government or smuggle them in. Look at the situation Mexico is currently facing.
And what "restrictions" should be placed on me? I've never harmed anyone and do not intend to. I have no criminal record, but I should be restricted? Do I not have a right to bear arms?
yes you do. But responsibility with guns ownership is not automatic. The restrictions I am referring to is a screening process, that's it. If you can't wait a couple weeks for a gun, than you might not be responsible and/or mature enough to own one, think about the Steven McNair murder, that girl got a guns days before her murder/suicide. My complaint is the culture of guns in America; the Wild West mentality is the problem, Gun conventions exciting people to own etc .
No, I shouldn't have to wait a couple of weeks for a gun. What if a woman is being stalked and wishes to obtain a firearm for self defense? You really think she should be vulnerable for weeks just to satisfy you?
And to say that someone who does not want to wait to exercise a right to please you isn't responsible or mature enough to own arms is arrogant to say the least.
The other BS such as the "Wild west mentality," the "dreaded" gun culture, and the horror of gun shows is just that: BS.
You asked "What if a woman is being stalked and wishes to obtain a firearm for self defense? You really think she should be vulnerable for weeks just to satisfy you?"
I know you asked machngunjoe, but my answer is NO. She doesn't need to be vulnerable. Google the names Bonnie Elmasri, Sonya Miller, and Catherine Latta and you'll get links to how waiting periods for obtaining a firearm for self-defense affected them. One of the above three victims did not survive by the way.
Honestly, if guns were banned and criminals had to start smuggling in weapons or stealing them from the government, things might get worse because they'll likely go for heavier firepower. The full-autos, the grenade launchers, the rocket launchers, the hand grenades. That's what the Mexican Cartel is doing.
this is all speculative but I disagree, its would be hard to top our 40,000 death a year from guns average, given illegal smuggling into account, other countries (first class nations) have banned guns and their deaths a year is less than 1,000 (Britain is what I have in mind) and these countries don't have huge corps. e.g. NRA with huge political lobbying power. Thats the problem in the US, not illegal smuggling.
40,000? A bit high. Generally we average around 30,000. Over 16,000 of those are suicides.
As far as England and other nations go, do a little research and you'll find that they've always had much lower crime rates than us, even when gun control laws were similar. Gun control is not the reason their rates are lower. Many times, gun control laws are actually followed by an increase in crime.
The NRA gets its political power from it's ability to sway votes. I has this ability because the massive membership is composed entirely of voting citizens. They are not the gun manufacturer's lobby as the media suggests.
Actually, the gun manufacturers lobby is known as the National Sport Shooting Foundation. I have a feeling you've never heard of them...
To say that the NRA should not be able to have the control they do is to say that all of the members should be silenced....
22% more likely? OMG I must get rid of my knives in my house! Since knives are a hell of a lot more dangerous than guns at close distances! You claim you are a cop? Well were you sleeping through the surviving edge weapons training? What about the 21 foot rule moron?
its not 22% its 22x which is 2200%, or 1 criminal killed for every 22 "family member" but even that is a bad statistic because almost all of those are suicides which sad fact is people will kill themselves, with or without a gun being available.
The goofy 22x claim also includes criminals who possessed firearms illegally, and by directly comparing criminals killed vs. others killed, it neglects the fact that the vast majority of defensive firearm uses do not result in the firearm being discharged: IE No one dies, which is a heck of a lot better than "victim dies" in my book.
Hes pro the anti-gun yet says HE HAS HIS NRA MARKSMEN BADGE!!! What he means is you are too dumb to protect yourself but he isnt. There are many gun laws on the books & with new laws trying to be passed you need 2b an attorney to have one. Just watch: What is a barrel shroud? The truth is these morons fail to enforce them and blame you!!!
This hypocrite first knocks statistics then uses it to drive his point, not to mention he cant even pronounce the word!!! He says people every day are killed with guns but he doesnt say how or why!!! Yes crime goes down after a ban because of hoarding MORE GUNS!!! But this is temporary. We have high crime because we have more freedom. He needs to be mayor of Red China.
"A gun is 22 times more likely to be used against you". Another bogus figure pulled out of the ass of a gun hater. You can't trust cops or politicians to be objective on this issue.
See how he looks down as soon as he lied about the DC gun ban homicide going down.
I like how he mentions how when Brady was shot with guns surrounding them. Did anyone see a high body count there? I always love how this moron compares apples to doorknobs.
A gun is 22 times more likely to be used against you or your family than against a criminal? Wouldn't that reasoning also apply to a knife, screwdriver, hammer?
This has been flagged as spam show
Sounds like the police should not be allowed to have firearms at home -according to Helmke's reasoning. And, don't believe chiefs of police for statistics either, apparently.
maxfirepower 1 month ago
Comment removed
maxfirepower 1 month ago
This guy is an idiot. Not only is he pulling "facts" out of his ass, he is lying through his teeth. No one has addressed why Ireland's gun bans have failed, Britain's, or Germany's. Its culture that effects crime rate, not guns. Sweden has less gun laws than Britain, yet per capita Britain has more GUN crime than Sweden even with restricted guns ON AN ISLAND no less.
Jackal10110010 7 months ago
I don't know where you're getting your suhstistics Ralph.....
ryanm406638 11 months ago
Does it really happen every day that someone finds a gun and accidently shoots themselves? I'm suspicious of this "fact." Anyone have any data?
Also, the "22x more likely that a gun is used against you or your family" than an attacker. I'm suspicious of this as well... and would bet they included suicides and discounted defensive use when you don't shoot someone.
And finally, if guns reduce crime, Israel should be the safest country in the world...and it's close if you rule out bombs...
darwinkilledgod 1 year ago
All these gun control supporters fail to mention that criminals who are a part of gangs acquire their firearms from the black market. Guns which are imported from other countries, such as Mexico, Colombia etc... Its totally unfair that law abiding citizens are blamed for the increase of illegal guns. Also, the high rate of murders caused by firearms are again due to gang activity, seems like they're immune to this debate.
MikeAlexanderNewell 1 year ago
30,000 deaths is BS.....2009 FBI stats- 13,159 homicdes total in USA , of that slightly over 6,000 firearm related homicdes for 300 Million people. I dont see a problem.
DaSperminatorRob 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
1.71 people are murdered an hour.
12.5-285.3 people defend themselves an hour.
The arbitration system we have has much more to do with the murder rate than firearms. If you only criminalize coercive acts and legalize all voluntary acts the crime rate would go down as much as is humanly possible.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
Does this douche-bag know if you have a backyard pool, that you are 20x more likely to drown in it and have your children drown in it?
evolutionist101 1 year ago
I think my 9mm is defective.... And can you tell me where I can get a full-auto AK-47 in San Francisco, Mr Helmke?
ustfu 1 year ago
Paul Helmke has been the best so far. The point of "If the proposition is true and guns reduce crime, America should be the safest country in the world" is very appropriate. I would like to see how the proposition would countervail the large number of gun related deaths in America due to its large amount of guns.
EclecticSceptic 1 year ago
@EclecticSceptic It is as absurd as the opposite. It is all about culture, history, and inequality of wealth.
island4diver 1 year ago
wow didn't section 6 just refute his arguement of if you use your guns its 22 time more likely be used against you.
kullwarrior 1 year ago
@kullwarrior Yes it does.
island4diver 1 year ago
This guy kind of sounds like John Stossel.
ticklemelia 1 year ago
@ticklemelia more like Glen Beck
island4diver 1 year ago
Who substantiates his statistics? He's just pullings numbers out of thin air with no attribution.
poursuivant1 2 years ago
my god there is a lot of Gun-fanatics texting here. lol.
I like guns too but America has way too many, way too accessable, and barely any regulation on any of them. It makes common sense that the more guns we put in so many hands the most deaths we will have. Everyone here is assuming everyone who has a gu in there hands will be smart and responsible with it. WE don't live in that world anymore and the evidence is on the TV news every single day
machngunjoe 2 years ago
So you are in favor of preventing law abiding people from obtaining defensive arms to prevent the off chance that one of these guns
***might*** be stolen?
It's ALREADY illegal for felons to own/obtain guns.
It's ALREADY illegal for the mentally ill to own/obtain guns.
The only thing you can do further is prevent the law abiding from owning guns. The reality is that criminals will just find another means of obtaining them. They do tend to ignore the law...
bldgy 2 years ago
well that is my point, what you said, Criminals will find guns either way, but if we restrict gun ownership that would help. You, for example, yes you can own a gun and that is fine, but with restrictions, and honestly the restrictions you mentioned is just fine, but in America there are so many guns by far, its no wonder that criminals get them so easily. that's all I'm saying. The excessive manufacture of guns here is a huge part of the problem.
machngunjoe 2 years ago
Criminals will steal guns from the government or smuggle them in. Look at the situation Mexico is currently facing.
And what "restrictions" should be placed on me? I've never harmed anyone and do not intend to. I have no criminal record, but I should be restricted? Do I not have a right to bear arms?
bldgy 2 years ago
yes you do. But responsibility with guns ownership is not automatic. The restrictions I am referring to is a screening process, that's it. If you can't wait a couple weeks for a gun, than you might not be responsible and/or mature enough to own one, think about the Steven McNair murder, that girl got a guns days before her murder/suicide. My complaint is the culture of guns in America; the Wild West mentality is the problem, Gun conventions exciting people to own etc .
machngunjoe 2 years ago
No, I shouldn't have to wait a couple of weeks for a gun. What if a woman is being stalked and wishes to obtain a firearm for self defense? You really think she should be vulnerable for weeks just to satisfy you?
And to say that someone who does not want to wait to exercise a right to please you isn't responsible or mature enough to own arms is arrogant to say the least.
The other BS such as the "Wild west mentality," the "dreaded" gun culture, and the horror of gun shows is just that: BS.
bldgy 2 years ago
To bldgy:
You asked "What if a woman is being stalked and wishes to obtain a firearm for self defense? You really think she should be vulnerable for weeks just to satisfy you?"
I know you asked machngunjoe, but my answer is NO. She doesn't need to be vulnerable. Google the names Bonnie Elmasri, Sonya Miller, and Catherine Latta and you'll get links to how waiting periods for obtaining a firearm for self-defense affected them. One of the above three victims did not survive by the way.
DJSedSo 2 years ago
Thanks for the info.
A lot of these people don't stop to consider the negative effects of these goofy laws or how they can be misused.
bldgy 2 years ago
You're welcome, bldgy.
DJSedSo 2 years ago
Honestly, if guns were banned and criminals had to start smuggling in weapons or stealing them from the government, things might get worse because they'll likely go for heavier firepower. The full-autos, the grenade launchers, the rocket launchers, the hand grenades. That's what the Mexican Cartel is doing.
bldgy 2 years ago
this is all speculative but I disagree, its would be hard to top our 40,000 death a year from guns average, given illegal smuggling into account, other countries (first class nations) have banned guns and their deaths a year is less than 1,000 (Britain is what I have in mind) and these countries don't have huge corps. e.g. NRA with huge political lobbying power. Thats the problem in the US, not illegal smuggling.
machngunjoe 2 years ago
40,000? A bit high. Generally we average around 30,000. Over 16,000 of those are suicides.
As far as England and other nations go, do a little research and you'll find that they've always had much lower crime rates than us, even when gun control laws were similar. Gun control is not the reason their rates are lower. Many times, gun control laws are actually followed by an increase in crime.
bldgy 2 years ago
The NRA gets its political power from it's ability to sway votes. I has this ability because the massive membership is composed entirely of voting citizens. They are not the gun manufacturer's lobby as the media suggests.
Actually, the gun manufacturers lobby is known as the National Sport Shooting Foundation. I have a feeling you've never heard of them...
To say that the NRA should not be able to have the control they do is to say that all of the members should be silenced....
bldgy 2 years ago
22% more likely? OMG I must get rid of my knives in my house! Since knives are a hell of a lot more dangerous than guns at close distances! You claim you are a cop? Well were you sleeping through the surviving edge weapons training? What about the 21 foot rule moron?
cboobtube 2 years ago
its not 22% its 22x which is 2200%, or 1 criminal killed for every 22 "family member" but even that is a bad statistic because almost all of those are suicides which sad fact is people will kill themselves, with or without a gun being available.
scasafrass 2 years ago
The goofy 22x claim also includes criminals who possessed firearms illegally, and by directly comparing criminals killed vs. others killed, it neglects the fact that the vast majority of defensive firearm uses do not result in the firearm being discharged: IE No one dies, which is a heck of a lot better than "victim dies" in my book.
bldgy 2 years ago
Hes pro the anti-gun yet says HE HAS HIS NRA MARKSMEN BADGE!!! What he means is you are too dumb to protect yourself but he isnt. There are many gun laws on the books & with new laws trying to be passed you need 2b an attorney to have one. Just watch: What is a barrel shroud? The truth is these morons fail to enforce them and blame you!!!
cboobtube 3 years ago
This hypocrite first knocks statistics then uses it to drive his point, not to mention he cant even pronounce the word!!! He says people every day are killed with guns but he doesnt say how or why!!! Yes crime goes down after a ban because of hoarding MORE GUNS!!! But this is temporary. We have high crime because we have more freedom. He needs to be mayor of Red China.
cboobtube 3 years ago
"A gun is 22 times more likely to be used against you". Another bogus figure pulled out of the ass of a gun hater. You can't trust cops or politicians to be objective on this issue.
SlartyFartBlast 3 years ago
Yet another useful idiot...
recon1mercenary 3 years ago 2
Deal with his arguments rather than name-calling.
Youmightberight 3 years ago
See how he looks down as soon as he lied about the DC gun ban homicide going down.
I like how he mentions how when Brady was shot with guns surrounding them. Did anyone see a high body count there? I always love how this moron compares apples to doorknobs.
ClassicFIHD 3 years ago
A gun is 22 times more likely to be used against you or your family than against a criminal? Wouldn't that reasoning also apply to a knife, screwdriver, hammer?
johnny5766 3 years ago
Helmke wins by the debate by default.
hiredhelp 3 years ago