Re; Why I Am Not An Atheist (1 of 3)

[FLANKINGWARBEAR]

Atheism is faith based just like theism. Atheism is the lack of belief in god but that is the same thing as a belief that there is no god. If atheism was only the lack of belief, then atheism itself would be nonexistant because if it isn't belief and isn't anything else, then it isn't. Think it through buddy.

[dechha1981]

@FLANKINGWARBEAR

You are such a fucktard.

You know what my #1 Pet Peeve is? Theists who think tHEY can tell ME what I think.

So you know what? Please, by all means, tell me ALL ABOUT my own beliefs, how I think and how I became an Atheist in the first place. While you're at it, please tell me exactly where I am on the Dawkins Scale. I'm dying for an excuse to block a troll.

[gooddarkjedi]

@FLANKINGWARBEAR oh you are so stupid. havin no faith is easy. its easy, do you belive in zombies? no. now do you think that its compleatly impossible that there culd be zombies or something like that? if you dont you are an atheist towards zombies. you dont think that zombies are impossible but you agree that its culd be possible. of course just bechose something is possible does not mean that it is so.

[x86freak]

Actually you can believe in Atheism. If you are a serious christian and existence of God is not a matter of belief - then to a christian it's knowledge. Now if for some reason he dislikes God, he may want to fight his 'knowledge' of God. That's when he may want to believe atheism aka disbelieve in God.

In other words - one can believe in atheism BUT only if you 'know' that there is God.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak Wouldn't the belief in atheism mean that one would believe in the disbelief in God? Also, since one knows God wouldn't that contradict one's disbelief in God?

[x86freak]

@NeverAloneForever

Yes and when you really want to believe something you may eventually convince yourself of it, also they say Bible is full of contradictions yet that doesn't stop all them Christians from believing in it.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak

"Yes and when you really want to believe something you may eventually convince yourself of it".

Assuming this was an answer to my first question, my answer would be . . . BLORT. I don't think you got what I meant. You see we all know that there is a disbelief in God. It's either that or I misunderstood you . . . and what you meant by belief . . . and knowledge.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak

"also they say Bible is full of contradictions yet that doesn't stop all them Christians from believing in it".

No, not contradictions in someone's beliefs and rhetoric. Contradictions in logic itself. You said that if he "knows" God (whatever the fuck that means) than he can lack a belief in God. Well, I guess I assumed that enable to know something exists then you must believe in it . . . but then how can you not believe in something that you "know" exists?

[x86freak]

@NeverAloneForever

One's belief becomes his knowledge when he tests it and confirms it in his mind beyond reasonable doubt. Now, that reasonable doubt part is very subjective. For some it's enough to see a rainbow and go 'oooooh, God is real!'

BTW contradictions can easily exist in one's mind, that's why often religious are called delusional.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak Yes, so belief becomes ones knowledge. But that knowledge is placed on top of that belief. So if one knows God then one believes in God, correct? So given the definition of Atheism it's impossible to be one. You see I was talking about contradictions in logic itself (the universe even). Not the mind. Oh, and they are delusional. You already proved it.

Hmm . . . one might have to define knowledge enable to prove one knows.

[x86freak]

@NeverAloneForever

Your girlfriend becomes your fiancée and eventually your wife - would you call your wife your gf? seems odd.

Also definition of atheism is a interesting thing. Reality is either with a god/gods or godless. So when you 'don't believe in gods' does that mean you assume a godless reality or simply reject all proposed gods and have no actual say on weather there are any?

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak

"Your girlfriend becomes your fiancée and eventually your wife - would you call your wife your gf? seems odd."

Hmm . . . I don't get it. I just don't get the relevance of that statement . . . or the question. Yeah, I wouldn't. Well, maybe yes actually. If my hypothetical wife wanted me to, I would.

"Also definition of atheism is a interesting thing. Reality is either with a god/gods or godless . . . etc."

No, just like deccha1981 says: a lack of a belief in a God or Gods.

[x86freak]

@NeverAloneForever

What I meant was that either you believe or know, not 2 at once.

So basically that's weak atheism because you don't specify what you do believe.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak Actually to be clear on this you must have facts to actually know something. So I guess I'm correcting myself too, huh? Another thing worth mentioning is that people can always believe they know something. Also, I was trying to get to know what you meant when you put the '' on the word know.

Weak atheism? Da fuck? Atheists are specifying what they don't believe. That's what the "A" before any word is supposed to discern? Get it? It's NOT something. End of story. See ya later.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak Oh, and some questions. Why is it weak to not state what you believe? Is belief strong and buff or something?

Also, Did I say I was an atheist?

[x86freak]

@NeverAloneForever

Knowledge based on false data is still knowledge, just incorrect.

A belief is usually something people intuitively feel. 'I believe it's going to be a good day. Why? I don't know, It just feels like it'

When I said they 'know' means they experienced 'something' they call God. Their experience is real, so you can't really say they base their belief just on assumptions.

PS Look up 'weak/strong atheism' that should clarify some things.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak Alright I think I get it. One thing should be noted though. Knowledge requires that you believe something is true (as it confirms it). So intuitively they can't disbelieve in it . . . while "knowing" him.

I guess I won't ever know what that "experience" is . . . or why they call it that. As for the whole weak/strong atheism thing (I looked it up). Blort? I don't really know about this. I think the distinction is needless. The strong atheists seem like borderline anti-theists though.

[x86freak]

@NeverAloneForever

Well you got me there with 'intuitive' part, it's not the only thing to describe belief. Maybe an example will help to show my way of thinking: I parent in a morgue is asked to identity a corpse. He sees the body, knows it's his child but due to shock brain goes in serious denial mode - aka disbelief. Same with a Christian - he 'knows' God is love but shown bible passages of carnage he May reject his 'talking with Jesus', speaking in tongues activities as delusions.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak I guess I should've noticed the difference between knowledge of existence and "knowledge" of one thing.

Still, since I'm obviously a picky mother fucker, I'm still going to point out the faultiness of your example. When one disbelieves their child is dead it is different then the denial of something's existence entirely. Though you might be correct in their denial of the God they forced themselves to believe in.

Still, I understood what you were trying to say.

[NeverAloneForever]

@x86freak . . . . . . and to classify it in weak and strong terms sounds kind of perposterous. But since the strong atheists sound like petulent children, I could see how that distinction was made. I do think one of the articles was correct in re-identifying weak atheist into agnostic atheists and the strong as gnostic. That makes more sense.

Oh, I almost forgot. Everybody believes in atheism. The same goes for theism. We all know that believers and non-believers exist. Ya see?

[Blair63B]

excuse me but if possible can you clarify what you meant when you said "hijacked dieism" im unfamiliar with the term.

i hope i spelled that correctly, but if you can respond i would appreciate it.

[Blair63B]

@Blair63B you said it at around 8:00

[darcat09]

There are so many important reasons why God allows suffering. It's so that we may learn to trust God instead of leaning on idols.  It's a method of God pruning us that we might have fruit in our lifes.

[hambone9119]

im not athiest and im not christian im myself fuck brainwashing dumbfucks im gonna go and rock and roll piece.

[dechha1981]

@hambone9119 And I should give a shit that you don't give a shit why?

Fuck off.

[gooddarkjedi]

@hambone9119 so what are you?

[vacationboyvideos]

why im not sright becase guys like this are HOT

[sicilia313]

Why don't you listen to the real argument

What is a material

Evolution right time plus matter plus chance equals the mind RIGHT OK

[sicilia313]

Atheism has a common belief that there is no god religion is a belief so therefore atheism is a religion.

Atheism is false

And why don't you listen to Ravi Zacharias and why he is not an atheist

[Tenebrous76]

Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour.

But then many theists would rather attack the definition of atheism rather than attempt to provide evidence for the god they claim. Why is that? Is it because there is no evidence? I think so.

[Tenebrous76]

False analogy, a category error in fact.

If all A's are B's it does not necessarily follow that all B's are A's.

Some atheists hold that there is definitely no god. However that is not all atheists.

All atheists have no belief in any gods.

As for Ravi, he has no evidence for a god either. Just a slick spiel that seeks to distract us from the lack of evidence for a god.

[dechha1981]

"Atheism has a common belief that there is no god"

You can't even get THAT part right. Therefore, you're a dickhead.

[Evan9032]

Atheism is a religion as off is a TV channel.

[gooddarkjedi]

@sicilia313 nope. atheism is lack of belive in a gods. i dont belive that there is a god, and tecnicaly it is impossible but i give you benefit of dout. but i dont think that it is compleatly impossible that there culd be something like god. but i dont think that it is so. if not beliving in god is religion then you have many religions. you dont belive in allah so you have religion of non-existance of allah.

[GronTheMighty]

wait, what?

a theist who admits he might possibly be wrong about something?!?!

now all that's left to do is simply to show how excellently easy it is to substitute the word 'something' with the word 'everything' and we're rolling! ^^

[paulbottomley42]

I think "atheism" probably should be seen here as a neat catch all term for unbelief. I think that a lack of belief could be false; we could be wrong - therefore he's using the word correctly. He might be doing it by fluke, but he's right all the same. I think you're using the word in a slightly broader sense than he might be, actually. Give the guy a break (on the definition of atheism, at least), its just a word.

[djchubakka]

Why is a lack of belief so hard for these people to understand? They go around NOT believing in Thor, Wotan, Vishnu, Gnesh. Atheists just go one god further. Geeze.

[facilisdescenus]

Science is based on philosophy, laws of logic, induction, uniformity of nature, they're all philosophical concepts. Science is a slave to philosophy (Veritas has a video on it)

You should look ,Veritas has a bunch of videos on these arguments. His teleogical argument was based on the fine-tuning of universal constants(not evolution)

[Tenebrous76]

EVIDENCE.

Science is based on evidence and the testing of evidence.

The only philosophy involved is the methodological naturalism.

[sicilia313]

but you cannot test out the evidence that there is no god

[Tenebrous76]

Which is a poor cop out used to avoid the realisation that there is no evidence for any gods.

[Tenebrous76]

Nor can you provide any evidence that there is a god.

And just as I do not live in fear of unproven vampires, I see no reason to fear any gods.

[facilisdescenus]

[ every time he says that Atheism is a specific POSITIVE belief... take a drink. ]

Take a drink every time he USES the CORRECT philosophical definition of terms .YAY

(Routledge encylopedia of philosophy)

Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief.

(Standford Encyclopedia of philosophy)

Atheism means the negation of theism, the denial of the existence of God.

[facilisdescenus]

(philosophy pages)

Belief that god does not exist. Unlike the agnostic, who merely criticizes traditional arguments for the existence of a deity, the atheist must offer evidence (such as the problem of evil) that there is no god or propose a strong principle for denying what is not known to be true.

dechha reminds me of those creationists who try to redefine "theory" to suit themselves. You can't just redefine word any time you like when Veritas uses the proper definition.

[dechha1981]

I'm an Atheist MYSELF you fucking moron! DON'T tell me what I think. I am STRONGLY tempted to block you for that.

[facilisdescenus]

Well I'm sorry .I'm not trying to say what you believe. But I'm sure you would understand veritas48 is just sticking to the accepted philosophical definition of atheism

[dechha1981]

Alright, you're not doing it on purpose. But just so you know, he's wrong, and mixing up Atheism with Philosophy is WAY off.

[JohnLArmstrong]

Thanks for the mention in this video.

[RyuDarragh]

Actually, you can state it as "I do not believe in 'God' or 'gods'", and that is a positive statement. The *strict* definition, as coined long ago, is "without god(s)". This can mean many things, only one of which is "there is no god". It can also mean "living as if there were no god", which is my position. I don't even speculate in my mind on a question that only the putative deity can answer, so I live without a thought about that being.. or lack thereof.

[heartless187]

Atheism use knowledge for rational reasoning, it condemns a existence of a deity.

[Scorpiochess]

"What is this 'atheism' of which you speak?"

The statement "There are no gods." may be a declaration of a lack of something, but it's still a statement and could still be proven false. The teleological argument and cosmological argument however are by no means the right ways to do that. Only a deity can disprove atheism.

[Mathenaut]

"The statement "There are no gods." may be a declaration of a lack of something"

Particularly for those familiar with logic, there is a significant difference between the statements:

"There are no gods" and "I do not believe in a god"

Though there are those who state the former, the position of Atheism is the latter.

[facilisdescenus]

"Though there are those who state the former, the position of Atheism is the latter. "

Atheism is "I deny the existence of God" (according to Stanford)

[Scorpiochess]

Let me rephrase...

"There are no gods."

"I do not believe in a god."

BOTH of these statements are true to atheists. It's just that the latter one has more certainty behind it because it's proveable.

[djchubakka]

Penn Gillette states "I believe there is no god." He has a great "I believe." essay on the NPR site.

[TheChristianCenter01]

key word. "True TO atheist"

[bearpaw72]

Is there NOBODY ELSE in this world except ME who can fathom the existence of a god and an afterlife WITHOUT having to live in the Bronze Age?

[dechha1981]

Uh, You, John L. Armstrong, DonExodus2, uh, not many.

[garouHH]

Hopefully not many who do so out of the reasons that this veritas48 does.

[AntiChristVersion1]

Good Stuff, good stuff. However, I must say at least this guys seems like less of a prick than people who you have debunked before.

[dechha1981]

True.

[sithmonkeygecko]

love the ending.

"um, ah, so your, um. wait. um..."

that is amazing

[Domzdream]

The problem with pseudo intellectual christians and theists is that they try too hard to over-intellectualise their belief. They throw all their fancy big words together and come up with a mish mash of confused crap that sounds credible but isn't. Veritos is one of those unfortunate souls. He is so confused that he doesn't realise his, er... confusion. This should be a rule: you can't mix epistemology with hypothecy. One thng is observable, the other requires faith. Simple.

[CO2Junkie]

LOL! Damn, I spit my beer at 9:34 . 'Did you ever think that maybe... WE, were designed for MOSQUITOS!?' Funny stuff man! Woo!

[riversonthemoon]

The axiological argument doesn't require a refutation. It is just an assertion that morals are evidence of a good God. Game theory and neuroscience give us good reason to think that our morals evolved. It is also a non sequitur. One might as well say that the existence of ears is evidence for a musical God.

The cosmological argument is deductively invalid. The proper conclusion is that nothing caused the universe. If EVERYTHING has a cause, then that leaves NOTHING as first cause, not God.

[riversonthemoon]

Or one could either accept the infinite regress, or reject the first premise and dismiss the idea that the universe is an effect. Time is part of the universe and no action (in this case creation) could happen without time.

The teleological argument is riddled with problems - argument from ignorance, non-sequitur, begging the question to name a few.

Ontological argument cheats by including existence implicitly in its definition of God. I could do that with a unicorn, too - the 'perfect' horse.

[riversonthemoon]

What else has he got? If all the arguments for theism (actually deism) aren't valid, then that leaves atheism as the only rationally tenable position. That is why I'm an atheist and not because, as he suggests, that I find suffering in the world repugnant. Though that IS better explained by an indifferent, (benevolent) god-less universe.

[KasparHauser4]

I can feel your Pain! Debating these clowns makes as much sense as banging your head against a wall.

[alcari]

Except that you have a least a tiny chance the wall will break.

[technologysucks]

What is the cosmological argument? The First Cause argument? How is that one human-centered?

[alcari]

it's not... at least, not as far as I know.

The only thing I can think of is that only human-scale things need a cause, and that quantum theory has plenty of uncaused events, rendering it flawed at its very base.

It's a bit of a stretch calling it human-centered though.

[Phoenixyuu]

I can't wait to see his rebuttle to this!

[sockpuppetsfromhell]

The problem with theists is that they think their belief is the default state. The default state IS atheism because theism requires indoctrination.

[Kazumaster]

I met a guy the other day who claimed people are born christian and believing in the teachings of the bible.. at first I laughed, but then to my horror I realized he was actually serious. It shocked me so much I didn't even know what to say. How can people be that stupid?

[sockpuppetsfromhell]

"How can people be that stupid?"

A lifetime of brainwashing.

[jdf088]

when one is beaten over the head with the bible long enough one starts to believe the contents of the beating implement, or "i believe it cause mommy and daddy says so". emotion plays an integral part in belief and faith in the supernatural.

[bearpaw72]

He must have read "Purpose Driven Life" WAY too many times. This book actually says something that implies it.

By any chance, did he show you that book at all?

[Kazumaster]

No, but he told me to check out VenomFangX's videos so he might've just been messing with me.

[FLANKINGWARBEAR]

@sockpuppetsfromhell atheism requires indoctrination also because you need to be taught about a god to make a decision on whether or whether not to believe in him

[geroldkid]

Great refutations! V48, don't say you understand atheists if you don't understand atheism yourself.

[lowconceptreviews]

Heh. I saw a review of Expelled that guy posted. He was all up Ben Stein's ass.

[dechha1981]

This I gotta see!

[GlobalTelos]

Preach on Deccha. Preach on.

[Anastasius37]

*facepalm* I will say this, someone CAN believe that their is no God, b/c it isn't provable either way... anyways... time for extreme joke comments

"ATHEIST IS BELIEVING IN NOTHING, HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IN NOTHING, THAT MAKES IT SOMETHING!"

"ATHEISTS ARE JUST PEOPLE WHO ARE ANGRY AT GOD!"

I am not an atheist, by my definition of theist, but by most I am, however... I think that the best route to take is on the skeptical and rational highway... most of the time, it is fun to be crazy sometimes

[jkeaty2]

Ok back, too much coffee

[jkeaty2]

BRB gotta go pee

[Killer0fTheSun]

Dechha if i took up on your offer of the drinks,id be a glum drunk at 7:20 of this video.